Microsoft admits Vista failure

[Browser_ice]

I don`t know about this site so I don't know how much we can trust this news. Any ones ?

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087

[Mazza558]

I don`t know about this site so I don't know how much we can trust this news. Any ones ?

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087

The inquirer is a peronaly trusted site for me. They found out news of a new game half a month before it was officially announced.

[mstlyevil]

If you look at the numbers, Vista is anything but a failure. Vista is expected by the current adoption rate to become the dominate operating system within a year.

[TravisNewman]

it isn't a commercial failure (or at least, it won't be once XP is no longer an option), but I'd still say that it's a failure ;)

[ComplexNumber]

If you look at the numbers, Vista is anything but a failure. Vista is expected by the current adoption rate to become the dominate operating system within a year.
hmmm i'm not so sure about that.

[forrestcupp]

I don't have much respect for this website. It really irritates me that throughout the article they call Vista Me II. This article is worse than any troll I've heard in the forums. The title says that MS admits failure, but no where in the article does it say that MS admitted anything. It is all speculation based on Microsoft's actions.

No Respect.

[Lord Illidan]

Personally, I tried out Vista Home Premium for myself on my dad's new Sony Vaio, and we were so impressed that we installed Ubuntu :)

Seriously, while the UI looks better than XP, it wasn't that much of an upgrade, given that it took 5 years to make while dropping up features like WinFS, etc. Also, it was hard to configure. Now, I am not new to computers or stuff like that, having used XP/2000/98/95/3.1 and Linux for 4 years now, but I still got confused.

So, yes, in my house Vista is a failure. Xp is still hanging on by a thread in my pc for a few games, and Ubuntu is the default OS on my pc, my dad's laptop, and my sister's pc.

[Iceni]

ME 2 is a good name for Vista ;)

[KiwiNZ]

In the last week I have upgraded my main home PC to Vista ( Linux just simply refuses to work on it) and I am very impressed . I have also started to upgrade the machines in my business ( not the Corp I work for) and I am confident it will be successfull .

I would not call Vista a failure, it is certainly driving Hardware sales which is personally gratifying and adds to its success factor.

[KiwiNZ]

ME 2 is a good name for Vista ;)

From some one who tried ME your comparison is way off target. In fact it is very very wrong

[Swab]

it is certainly driving Hardware sales

Not such good news for the environment, dumping all that perfectly good hardware into landfills...

[KiwiNZ]

Not such good news for the environment, dumping all that perfectly good hardware into landfills...

Not here , they dont go into land fills

[Swab]

Not here , they dont go into land fills

That's good, should be like that everywhere. Still manufacturing new hardware when old is perfectly functional is a waste of resources.

[mstlyevil]

Not such good news for the environment, dumping all that perfectly good hardware into landfills...

I know in my community there is an effort to get people to recycle old pc's.

[lightrush]

ROFL - Me II ! Nice one - that was the best comparison ever!

[%hMa@?b<C]

In the last week I have upgraded my main home PC to Vista ( Linux just simply refuses to work on it) and I am very impressed . I have also started to upgrade the machines in my business ( not the Corp I work for) and I am confident it will be successfull .

I would not call Vista a failure, it is certainly driving Hardware sales which is personally gratifying and adds to its success factor.

is it just ubuntu that doesnt work, or have you tried other distros (mepis is supposed to have very good hardware detection. I also could not be happier with gentoo's hardware detection)

[Tundro Walker]

I don't think there were enough advances in the PC market to warrant a new OS yet. Sure, there's dual-cores and such, but the average home users doesn't need that much power. Gamers need a lot of power, and Multimedia or 3d developers need lots of power. But the average user? They're doing just fine with their "old" 2ghz machine running XP. Likewise, some gamers are moving on to using consoles for gaming.

For a while, MS was trying to get MS Office users into a subscription service, that way they could charge them yearly, because they couldn't justify the little tweaks, bells and whistles they were adding to 2007 edition. But, MS Office users shot down that idea, so we got MS Office 2007, which doesn't have much new to it that the average user would use. (The average user barely knows how to use "track changes" in MS Word, or pivot tables in MS Excel).

In the next 5-10 years, I predict MS shifting it's resources from PC / OS over to more appliance-based and subscription-based services. EG: the Xbox console being an appliance, and it's online subscription for new content. They want to branch out into other appliance/devices (Zune mp3's anyone? Not for me!).

I think they've reached a zenith on the PC / Desktop OS market, other than really specialized OS's for special work, which usually consultant companies are hired to do (like a special OS to do scientific work, making special use of dual-core processors).

Currently, they're trying to branch off into ANTI-VIRUS software for their OWN OS. (http://news.com.com/Microsofts+antivirus+package+makes+a+splash/2100-7355_3-6104926.html)

I don't think Vista is a flop. I just think their OS has peaked out, they're realizing it, and they'll focus on other things.

[DoctorMO]

I don't think Vista is a flop. I just think their OS has peaked out, they're realizing it, and they'll focus on other things.

the problem is that it's only reached it's peak from a business perspective, if this was an open source project there would still be refinement and speed increases as it's never 'finished' so in that sense I consider Vista not applicable; it's not that I don't like Vista it's just that I don't care.

There is very little that can be done with windows, Microsoft should just stop messing about and take up Linux servicing; the longer they hold on to the fallacy of being able to control the IT market through the monopoly on the Desktop the more it will hurt them in the long run.

[Tundro Walker]

the problem is that it's only reached it's peak from a business perspective, if this was an open source project there would still be refinement and speed increases as it's never 'finished' so in that sense I consider Vista not applicable;

I agree with that. The fatal flaw of capitalism... Businesses must worry about the ROI, so development eventually stops when further improvement could be done. That's why I like Ubuntu so far; programmers are usually perfectionists, and given time, they will hone it to a fine, steel blade, while Windows will simply be "good enough" to cut with. I'd prefer to use Ubuntu "Katana" edition any day of the week over Windows "Rusty Pocket Knife" edition.

It's kinda sad Microsoft doesn't do like Id Software...after a while, just hand out the source code for the old Quake, Quake 2, etc and let folks have it. Of course, Id Software does that, because they know folks will be eager for their new engine, and game companies will want to license it for use in their own games. So, they shift their profit margin to the new product and let folks go berserk making games using the old source code for free.

But, I guess Microsoft is just so worried that someone will take the source code of Windows 3.11, and optimize it, and that'll draw such a huge market share of folks away from Vista. Oh no!


it's not that I don't like Vista it's just that I don't care.LOL! I got such a kick outta that statement. I think that sentiment is true. Folks migrating to Ubuntu eventually just stop caring about what happens in MS / Windows land. All we care about is what's going on with Ubuntu, Canonical, and how we can help out here. Well, I take that back. I do care if Microsoft makes it difficult for us over here, or if they put pressure on Canonical some how. Other than that...

[cprofitt]

Well... this site would certainly have more "I hate Microsoft" folks than other sites so don't flame me for what I am about to write.

Vista has some issues, but the five year development cycle is not one of them. That is a sign that they DID not like their first attempt. They, from my reading, scrapped the "first" Vista after two years and restarted development. The first version of Vista was based on the XP kernel the released, or "second" Vista, is based on the server 2003 kernel.

Because I make money on the side by supporting the typical home user I have to load and learn Vista. My experience so far has been very good. I would not compare the OS to ME at all and think it is actually a tad bit better than XP was at its release. Considering the significant changes to the driver model that is impressive.

I will say that I am hearing (unofficial) rumors that Microsoft may level the playing field with Linux and OSX by developing a FREE version of an OS. Some rumors inidicate that this will be a Linux based OS other suggest that it will be based on their own Kernel. They apparently are debating releasing an OS using the same model Novell has -- one free version -- one business version -- and support on an ala carte menu.

Needless to say I think that computing and OSs are going to be very interesting in the next 5-10 years as the industry changes. I think the thing most people are missing is the fact that processors need to change in their design to sustain the pattern of increased power. I am not sure how this will happen, but it will be interesting to see what Intel/AMD will do in the next 5-10 years.

[starcraft.man]

I remember reading this article a while ago. I've been following vista since its been out, just to see how it goes. I of course am never upgrading to it, if not for the reason of DRM, for that fact that I'm thoroughly annoyed with MS, its proprietary formats and its bullish attitude with dealing with everyone who tries to compete with them. So, I have to make my little stand telling them that I won't support anything they do from now on.

That said, I do have a bit to say on vista. First off, the numbers that were released, like the 20 million figure they released just a month and some after domestic sale began was inflated and wrong. To get to this number, they changed the way they calculate the number of sales in comparison with every previous OS they released, including in this bulk sales to OEMs (note that to be included they only had to sell to the OEM, not to the user, so likely many of these copies are still sitting around today). So in effect, they have sold millions of copies to Dell and other companies, but is anyone buying them they won't release those numbers.

That said, I believe that there are some people that are actually less protected than with XP. Many people I know, have actively turned off the UAC entirely, leaving themselves practical unprotected against anything that chooses to run and install on their system. This is a huge flaw with Vista, security isn't optional and this kind of mentality is why we have millions of spam bots around the world, because MS has always favoured convenience over security.

Lastly, with all the dropped features of Vista I have to ask what they did for 5 years? MANY of the improvements to Vista UI can be gotten in XP with hacks (look at the engage start menu, visual task tips for thumbnails of minimized windows, for the time machine like feature use Sync that microsoft readily supplies for download, and a whole host of others). Also, they have moved many features around for better and also worse and sometimes for no reason at all, annoying me.

Not to mention, why did they take 5 years? To add huge layers of DRM, to systematically let them control what you can do on your pc, the level of control they are beginning to try and get with your OS in windows is alarming. Not to mention, look at their new validation policy, now they want to "spy" on you 12 times a year, next it will be weekly reactivation, maybe even one day it will be live spying... It's getting to the day when you won't actually own your PC anymore, instead you will rent or be granted the "privilege" of using a PC from microsoft. Don't doubt it, Microsoft will bully any and everyone they feel like >.>

Thats the end of my rant, I will gladly stay XP/Ubuntu for likely rest of my life.

BTW: For those saying get Vista for DX 10 games, link! (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070424-project-aims-to-bring-dx10-gaming-to-xp-linux-os-x.html) For those who doubt it, do remember that many thought they would never see a day when wine and cedega ran games so well. I hope this project works and then they can really crush vista sales :)

As a final note, Vista is without a doubt a failure at one thing, creating a desire and need for it. Between the hardware requirements, the people annoyed with the UAC, the DRM, and a whole host of incomparabilities with existing technology, they have created a product that is anti-consumer. Thats the bottom line.

[afljafa]

We specifically did not buy a business machine from Dell ( and we have purchased plenty) because we couldn`t buy them with XP. We needed two more a few weeks later and lo and behold they where offering XP again.

[jiminycricket]

\
I will say that I am hearing (unofficial) rumors that Microsoft may level the playing field with Linux and OSX by developing a FREE version of an OS. Some rumors inidicate that this will be a Linux based OS other suggest that it will be based on their own Kernel. They apparently are debating releasing an OS using the same model Novell has -- one free version -- one business version -- and support on an ala carte menu.


that would certainly be a win for customers if Microsoft did that (although I'm sure it would benefit them vis a vis Linux because of lock-ins to their proprietary formats like OO-XML, DirectX, Silverlight etc that enforce their monopoly, + DRM). It's too bad that so many good tech companies had to die because of lax antitrust remedies though and that only a free OS could force MS to compete.

[Wiebelhaus]

In the last week I have upgraded my main home PC to Vista ( Linux just simply refuses to work on it) and I am very impressed . I have also started to upgrade the machines in my business ( not the Corp I work for) and I am confident it will be successfull .

I would not call Vista a failure, it is certainly driving Hardware sales which is personally gratifying and adds to its success factor.


We did the same thing after release , Networking , calendars , windows mail , UAC , everything worked great for about a month , then they just started dying one by one , cascading network issues , simple things such as a terastation could be seen but not accessed and it just got worse , you'll see it took about two months for the entire company to revolt and demand a re installation of XP or an alternative , we now have MS partnership licenses for vista that no one will touch.

[mrgnash]

It reminds me of the PS3 -- a lumbering hunk of junk. I don't think ME is an accurate comparison though, more like 3.11, for those who remember that abomination.

[mech7]

I seriiously doubt that ms is thinking Vista is a faillure..

http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY07/earn_rel_q3_07.mspx

65%more profit is enormous..

[lonce]

It is and isnt a failure. Look at it this way.

If I sold cars right. I am the largest seller of cars. I sell one model at a time. I sell cars to 80% of the companies around. If I release a new model car, then retire the one before it. The 80% of the companies have to buy my car. Not really any way around it. For the company to reliably find another car company quickly cant be done. The companies would spend to much money trying to do this and lose business and time.

So is it a commercial success. Yes, but only because microsoft has a strangle hold on the PC market. Its only successful because most companies cant get another OS.

[karellen]

It is and isnt a failure. Look at it this way.

If I sold cars right. I am the largest seller of cars. I sell one model at a time. I sell cars to 80% of the companies around. If I release a new model car, then retire the one before it. The 80% of the companies have to buy my car. Not really any way around it. For the company to reliably find another car company quickly cant be done. The companies would spend to much money trying to do this and lose business and time.

So is it a commercial success. Yes, but only because microsoft has a strangle hold on the PC market. Its only successful because most companies cant get another OS.

it doesn't really matters why. the fact is vista will become more and more widespread and it wiill bring microsoft more and more profit.
it's simple, even if unfair & sad (at least for us, the linux folks...)

[DoctorMO]

it doesn't really matters why. the fact is vista will become more and more widespread and it wiill bring microsoft more and more profit.
it's simple, even if unfair & sad (at least for us, the linux folks...)

I don't know, if you have to force the release of an OS in order to stay in a market that you own 90% of does that sound like their leading the way towards sustainable business? because despite how much money they make from vista or office 07 if it's not going to win them friends and make Mac OSX and Linux look sick and behind the times then it'll be a slow down for their business in real terms.

Like most big business, it's not about today it's about 5 years time.

[EdThaSlayer]

It might be a failure now, but in 4 or so years Vista will be a success since thats what is going to be bundled with almost every computer out.

[mech7]

They are not forcing anything you don't have to buy it if you don't want it.


I don't know, if you have to force the release of an OS in order to stay in a market that you own 90% of does that sound like their leading the way towards sustainable business? because despite how much money they make from vista or office 07 if it's not going to win them friends and make Mac OSX and Linux look sick and behind the times then it'll be a slow down for their business in real terms.

Like most big business, it's not about today it's about 5 years time.

[ArtificialSynapse]

I don't think there were enough advances in the PC market to warrant a new OS yet. Sure, there's dual-cores and such, but the average home users doesn't need that much power. Gamers need a lot of power, and Multimedia or 3d developers need lots of power. But the average user? They're doing just fine with their "old" 2ghz machine running XP. Likewise, some gamers are moving on to using consoles for gaming.

For a while, MS was trying to get MS Office users into a subscription service, that way they could charge them yearly, because they couldn't justify the little tweaks, bells and whistles they were adding to 2007 edition. But, MS Office users shot down that idea, so we got MS Office 2007, which doesn't have much new to it that the average user would use. (The average user barely knows how to use "track changes" in MS Word, or pivot tables in MS Excel).

In the next 5-10 years, I predict MS shifting it's resources from PC / OS over to more appliance-based and subscription-based services. EG: the Xbox console being an appliance, and it's online subscription for new content. They want to branch out into other appliance/devices (Zune mp3's anyone? Not for me!).

I think they've reached a zenith on the PC / Desktop OS market, other than really specialized OS's for special work, which usually consultant companies are hired to do (like a special OS to do scientific work, making special use of dual-core processors).

Currently, they're trying to branch off into ANTI-VIRUS software for their OWN OS. (http://news.com.com/Microsofts+antivirus+package+makes+a+splash/2100-7355_3-6104926.html)

I don't think Vista is a flop. I just think their OS has peaked out, they're realizing it, and they'll focus on other things.


Actually I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. My girlfriend's parents computer is in dire dire need of more processing power at 2ghz. What it really needs is good computer upkeep, but that never happens on home PCs and it takes a good 10 minutes to get onto the net.
So more processing power for the non-computer savvy sounds good.


I don't have much respect for this website. It really irritates me that throughout the article they call Vista Me II. This article is worse than any troll I've heard in the forums. The title says that MS admits failure, but no where in the article does it say that MS admitted anything. It is all speculation based on Microsoft's actions.

No Respect.

I agree with that.


Personally, I tried out Vista Home Premium for myself on my dad's new Sony Vaio, and we were so impressed that we installed Ubuntu :)

Hahahahahahah

[DoctorMO]

They are not forcing anything you don't have to buy it if you don't want it.

I don't think you understand the complaint; most people don't buy vista, they have no choice they are in effect forced to buy vista when they buy a new machine.

The whole reason linux exists as big as it is, is simply because no commercial competition could ever survive long enough to get a tow in the door.

The first barrier I believe in making Microsoft moral again is to show it for what it is: immoral, corrupt, wrong and a monster that got out of hand.

To some how give Microsoft any sort of credibility where their products are concerned would be to give their company moral backing; I can't believe any sane person would certify such immoral business practices. So we're left with only the ignorant and the self blinded who manage to ignore the damage being done to the industry, governments and various companies and instead try to defend Microsoft's technology because other geeks attempt to dismiss Vista through it's technology (which is the wrong problem IMHO).

So in an answer: yes I am being forces to buy vista, I won't buy vista and I will suffer my choice and in a way I'm pleased to be trying to do what's right in the face of bullying.

[karellen]

I don't know, if you have to force the release of an OS in order to stay in a market that you own 90% of does that sound like their leading the way towards sustainable business? because despite how much money they make from vista or office 07 if it's not going to win them friends and make Mac OSX and Linux look sick and behind the times then it'll be a slow down for their business in real terms.

Like most big business, it's not about today it's about 5 years time.

in 5 years time I can imagine people waiting anxiously for windows 2012-or-whatever-they-will-call-it and then paying for it more money. because 80-90% neither care or know something else...
just my personal perspective

[DoctorMO]

in 5 years time I can imagine people waiting anxiously for windows 2012-or-whatever-they-will-call-it and then paying for it more money. because 80-90% neither care or know something else...
just my personal perspective

What an odd fellow you are to think the world will always be the same.

[mech7]

I understand what you say only if you really want to you can buy an computer without an OS i did the same as i allready have enough licenses for XP as it is :) (about 3) And you could even buy Linux preinstalled.. although realistically it is not really a viable option yet to my opinion as people wonder why they can't run this and that software and when they need help people will tell them to run x and y command in the terminal :) Or having to figure out which one of the hundreds of distributions they need, wether they need Gnome or KDE and more confusing things :)

Still there is a real choice for normal users who really don't want to use windows.. http://www.apple.com comes with user friendly os pre-installed and has most commercial software available. So you can't say anybody is forced to buy windows there is a choice..



I don't think you understand the complaint; most people don't buy vista, they have no choice they are in effect forced to buy vista when they buy a new machine.

The whole reason linux exists as big as it is, is simply because no commercial competition could ever survive long enough to get a tow in the door.

The first barrier I believe in making Microsoft moral again is to show it for what it is: immoral, corrupt, wrong and a monster that got out of hand.

To some how give Microsoft any sort of credibility where their products are concerned would be to give their company moral backing; I can't believe any sane person would certify such immoral business practices. So we're left with only the ignorant and the self blinded who manage to ignore the damage being done to the industry, governments and various companies and instead try to defend Microsoft's technology because other geeks attempt to dismiss Vista through it's technology (which is the wrong problem IMHO).

So in an answer: yes I am being forces to buy vista, I won't buy vista and I will suffer my choice and in a way I'm pleased to be trying to do what's right in the face of bullying.

[ticopelp]

From some one who tried ME your comparison is way off target. In fact it is very very wrong

I worked with ME all the time in a tech support capacity for years, and I can say without hesitation that on a personal level, I find Vista to be just as bad, or worse. Maybe I just got "lucky," though.

[Ubunted]

Actually I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. My girlfriend's parents computer is in dire dire need of more processing power at 2ghz. What it really needs is good computer upkeep, but that never happens on home PCs and it takes a good 10 minutes to get onto the net.
So more processing power for the non-computer savvy sounds good.

Processing power is likely not what is slowing things down - almost no one actually uses 100% of their CPU these days. More likely that machine needs a RAM boost.

And saying that simply upgrading would solve lousy OS upkeep does not work - because it will simply take a little longer for the user to screw up the OS again and slow it to the point of uselessness.

Ten IE toolbars, five instances of LimeWire running simultaneously, expired Norton IS and current Zonealarm security suite all coupled with no updates will bring any system to its knees, no matter how powerful. And yes, I have seen all of the above in action via a remote desktop session. It ain't pretty.

[RudolfMDLT]

Well the article is a little insinuative - no real proof of MS admitting anything? But if Dell really did drop Vista then that has to mean something. I haven't bothered with Vista yet to be honest. By the time my games require Direct X 10 there'll be a crack out for sure. Just another question - is MS products really that cheap in Asia?
Gates in China launching a $3 version of bundled XP.

[blackspyder]

Vista is a current failure and a future cash cow. Right now many people are feeling the cash crunch thanks to high fuel and shipping costs (at least most everyone I know) and their old P3/P4 or Athlon/Athlon XP computer with 256 to 512 MB of RAM is suiting them just fine. These people if they wanted or cared about Vista would have to buy a new PC and thats just not in the budget. I saw a stat the other day that said that only 60% of American households have internet. My guess is that only 70-75% have computers as these things tend to go hand in hand. Those are some of the reasons Vista isnt selling like hotcakes.

As for thew hardware issues well lets face it if you want to have to mess around and search for drivers most of the computer literate know that they can do the same thing with linux. Also from the rumors I hear that Vista is a resource hog which would make it very bad for gaming.

As for the Future as PC's become faster and more adapt to running large programs and the lowend user is forced to upgrade due to break downs and lack of the old parts they will get the new Vista installed systems and Vista will become the cash cow MicroSoft hoped it and the XboX/XboX 360/Zune would be but arent

Written on a P3 256MB RAM Laptop (yes my desktop is Vista Capable but it wont happen till it becomes free.

[DoctorMO]

Still there is a real choice for normal users who really don't want to use windows.. http://www.apple.com comes with user friendly os pre-installed and has most commercial software available. So you can't say anybody is forced to buy windows there is a choice..

No the market is still too controlled, and not even by governments. so I will have to disagree because a choice of a hardware vendor in place of a software vendor is no choice at all.

[starcraft.man]

Heheh, its kinda funny, in relation to your market comments how it all works out. The majority of the computer market is stuck in a polar opposite dichotomy (oooh, big fancy word :p). On the one hand you have Microsoft windows which is just a Software and microsoft supplies it to all the hardware vendors for OEM. Thus, you can select your custom hardware and you will very much be stuck with Microsoft installed 99% of the time (System76 of course excluded). And on the other end of the spectrum, you can choose a different os (OSX) and your stuck with whatever hardware apple chooses to give you, since they are the only supplier of OSX and you can't buy it off shelf and install it. (Ya, a bit flawed on apple note, you can pop open their desktops I guess and swap something but most mac users I know just stick with what apple gives em, and your stuck with hardware on the macbooks).

What a weird world, and most users see no problem with it >.>

[MartynM]

I recently bought a bottom of the range Lenovo notebook for my mother. All she really needs is the ability to write some emails to her friend in Australia, use the internet and mess around with a simple art package to make greetings cards and such.

There was no choice but to have Vista installed on this machine, it has 512 meg of ram which you'd imagine would be about enough for general usage. Wrong! This machine takes about five to ten minutes to be fully up and running from boot, Vista needs very nearly all of the ram just to run. The solution I've been told is to buy some more ram, so why was this machine sold with an OS it's incapable of running? (rhetorical question:roll: )

Vista is absolute trash, period! I've been happily running XP for years, resisting a switch to mac because my main machine that I use for music has always run like a charm (I hate Apple's underhand marketing strategy)

I'm going to install Ubuntu on mother's machine and see how she gets along with it. As for myself, I'm going to hold out on XP for as long as possible and pray that audio production on Linux actually becomes a bit more than the current joke that it is, failing that I'm going to have to switch to mac (hell freezing over)

Vista's awful.

[karellen]

What an odd fellow you are to think the world will always be the same.

I know :D, I've been told that multiple times. but I'm very skeptical regarding the human nature. at least in the near future

[mech7]

you can choose a different os (OSX) and your stuck with whatever hardware apple chooses to give you, since they are the only supplier of OSX and you can't buy it off shelf and install it. (Ya, a bit flawed on apple note, you can pop open their desktops I guess and swap something but most mac users I know just stick with what apple gives em, and your stuck with hardware on the macbooks).

What a weird world, and most users see no problem with it >.>

You can still configure the machine though there is less hardware to choose from this is benifitial for stability less hardware to support ;) Also I don't know much windows users who change their hardware other then people who are also in IT :)