Meeting # 3 Topics?

[Technophobia]

It's never to early to start planing for next weeks meeting, so lets get some topic ideas flowing. I guess we will take the best 5 at the end of the week like we did last Sunday.


Heres one-

What task(s) would you like automated in Ubuntu? This could be installation of something or just to simplify a task like deleting the thumb files when pulling mswindows folders over(ThumbHammer).

Thoughts? New Topics?

[azteech]

Well, if we are ever to make a dent in the M$ user pasture, would like to suggest that now is the time. Seeing how MS has brought out Vista, and it is forcing folks to either put aside older machines that will not run it (and making them pay to get a new one) or forcing folks to upgrade the older machine to even be able to run Vista, now would be the time to show folks that the older machines are still capable of running a great OS, without having to spend a lot of money.

The problem as I see it is how to reach the masses before they spend the bucks to upgrade/replace their older system.
Just had a interesting chat with a person in a chat room I belong to, that doesn't want to spend big buck to replace a 3 yr old system, nor to upgrade it. Suggested they look into linux, specifically ubuntu. Gave them the link for ubuntu, and the free CDs. Suggested they also look at the forums, and if they had any ?'s, to not hesitate to ask.

But aside from that, how to we make Ubuntu known to the greater mass?

[IanMcewen]

Well, to do anything incredibly wide-reaching, we'd of course need a pretty good amount of money. Barring that option for obvious reasons, I'd say we have word of mouth of various sorts; so, talking to people who ask for help is one way. But, I think one of the best ways would be to have some presence at an event; maybe set up something with a couple of computers --- a slide show we run occasionally or just once, a computer for people to try out, maybe one that shows the ease of installation --- heck, make that the one with the slide show, to show the 'cool' ability that Ubuntu has of being usable during installation. Make sure we eye-candy them both up with Beryl and a well-unified theme, et cetera; even though many people wouldn't bother nor care, it does give a positive impression. Then, we just have some people watching and answering questions and an obvious pile of CDs, and we have some converts. Only issues would be setting up the computers and show and finding events that we could join. In addition to that, there's nothing particularly wrong with doing something like putting up posters; although many people won't bother to actually go look at the website, paper and ink and the time to put up posters are cheap, and hey... more the better, right?

I've converted several people (with a bit of help from some other Ubuntuers) in a channel I'm in, too. "Use Ubuntu Linux" can be applied to pretty much any computer complaint. Really, it can :)

In terms of automation, I think Ubuntu really needs something tour-ish for immediately post-installation, a la Windows XP's Tour (dunno if Vista has one... presume it does); this way, new users have a clear way to learn the most basic functions in Ubuntu (like, oh, installing restricted media codecs, or 'what's the web browser/email client/word processor/IM client,'? ;-) ), and this would additionally give yet another place to tell people 'look at the wiki/forums/contact local people for help,' and so on. You can all imagine the possibilities.

Anyway, throwing things around on the :arrow: Mailing List (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-az) or in the :arrow: IRC channel is always a good idea. Just because meetings are only Sunday at 6PM doesn't mean the channel can't be otherwise active the rest of the week :-) I'll be there.

[IanMcewen]

Ok, so, Vorian told me that the ubuntu-ohio meeting was happening, and I thought I'd take notes on stuff I thought we should/could consider; plus, some of my own thoughts as I sit here watching and reading. Here they are:

--- Website: We might want to expand the Wiki page, as at the moment... well, there's not much there. Of course, we might want to create something to put there first; anyway, this is just a suggestion. Also, we may want to discuss the possibility of a page other than just the Wiki page. The Ohio team have a website at ohio.ubuntu-us.org; presumably we could set something up at arizona.ubuntu-us.org, if we have somebody that could set that up. Of course, we might want to wait until we're better established. Anyway.

--- On CDs; this is actually from one of the Ubuntu Open Week discussions I was reading:

<chuckf> QUESTION How can unapproved teams get resources such as CDs from Shipit?
Right now only approved teams can get feisty CDs - so the solution is to get approved :)
So, we might have difficulties getting CDs if we want to do events; solutions are get approved or make our own. Just an announcement that should be made, I guess.

--- Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu/*buntu-non-supported-by-Canonical: What do we think of these other distros? Are we going to do anything to distribute them as well? Maybe once we're more developed? Basically, what's the trend in the group on promotion of Ubuntu derivatives? I personally am somewhat fond of Edubuntu; maybe something with local schools?

--- Recruiting for Ubuntu-Arizona: We have, like, 10-12 people that actually show up. Anything we can do to improve that beyond just existing and having Wiki/Forum/IRC?

--- And, above and beyond anything else, what the heck is our goal as a LoCo team? I'm sure we want to spread Ubuntu and all that; but do we have anyone who is interested in any specific other sort of Ubuntu thing? A goal might be able to get us organizing SOMETHING, at the least; even if it's not the sorta-central idea of promotion, it's a way to get us off the ground.

Damn, I talk a lot. Whoops. Anyway, hope it gives people ideas.

[IanMcewen]

Maybe this'll be the last one...

--- Library program: Ohio team's doing this, and it looked interesting to john and myself; they donate Ubuntu CDs to libraries in their state to be checked out. Might discuss the possibility of a program of this sort with our own libraries.

[bribri124]

I'm kinda going off of what ian said. Here is an idea - it won't hurt my feelings if it gets shot down.

My girlfriend is a big crafty type of person. She's even got me doing some. I have gone to quite a few crafty fairs in Tucson, mostly at churches, on the weekends. I walk around just gazing, and sometimes people bring in their laptops to display what they are selling. I remember this one time seeing somebody trying to sell "making peoples pictures into a slide show". There are other things, though not a much, that are not "crafty".

Now work with me here. What if there was somebody, such as myself, willing to setup a table, have the laptop ready and showing off Ubuntu, and maybe even have some CDs to distribute. The majority of the people that go to these events (no offense johnc4510) are "old people". Now maybe I am off, and I am certainly not trying to be mean here, but I have noticed in my lifetime that old people love to save money. Now showing them how to work the system may be challenging, but the sense that "I can save money" may override that feeling.

Just some food for thought. I will try to think of more ideas.

[Polygon]

that idea might work, but then you would have to set up a system of actually installing the thing on the persons computer, making sure that they dont have any "must need" programs that only run on windows (turbotax anyone?) cause i dont think very many people will be able to install ubuntu by them selfs without possibly screwing something up

[johnc4510]

All good ideas ian, I've already talked with Slick about getting the wiki page going and we should see some results on that with the next week or so. Probably a bit longer, I'm not sure how much is involved with that as it is out of my expertise.

I really like the library program and it was also suggest to me that we add the universities orientation as a booth sort of thing. Also spring fling at u of a. Keep up the good work. Your giving me lots of idea.

Also, if you could ask around and find out what it takes to get approved, I would appreciate it. We want that to happen as quickly as possible. Let me know what you find out. Thanks johnc4510

[IanMcewen]

I think it could work, given enough finesse; we would have to work hard on creating a method of doing what we want and not screwing with people's data or the like (GParted tutorial of some sort? Maybe? That's the only part of installation I can really see almost anyone screwing up; the rest's just hitting 'OK').

As for windows-only programs, I continue to maintain we need to gather some WINE expertise. If I ever have time, I might end up getting beyond my usual idea-logorrhea and into actually doing something and learn it myself :P

[IanMcewen]

Also, if you could ask around and find out what it takes to get approved, I would appreciate it. We want that to happen as quickly as possible. Let me know what you find out. Thanks johnc4510

LoCoGettingApproved on the Ubuntu Wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved)

Glad to be of service :)

[johnc4510]

bribri124, lol no offense taken, it's hard to rile us "older people". I like your "crafty idea". Please expand on it by offering fliers as to where to get support, ie here at the forums, and include the #ubuntu-arizona irc channel for instant online help. We kill two birds at once by first converting them and then getting them to the irc channel to sign them up. Keep up the good work. Thanks johnc4510

[johnc4510]

Ian, Wine/Cedaga will is already on the agenda for sunday's meeting. Look for it to be brought up. I will point Slick to the approval page so that the wiki design team knows what needs to be incorporated into it so that approval will not be a problem. Thanks johnc4510

[azteech]

Might take that one or more steps further.

1. Here in Tucson, we have the Tanqaverde Swap meet, that is open (I believe) Thursday through early Sunday afternoon. There are several vendors there that try to sell computers, or software, or services. What if we could get in with one of the vendors, and attempt to convert them to Linux, or at least peak their interest enough to have at least one or two linux systems set up running ubuntu. That way folks can test drive both linux and if they want, the other O$.
The other option is for a group of folks to go to their local swap meet and set up linux system(s). Show that there is a better altenative solution to the other O$. The down side for any of us to do this, is cost factor. To set up a area, or booth, cost $. Believe it is 15 for half day or 25 for full day.

2. Tucson just missed out on possible opportunity to show off ubuntu at the Pima County Fair. Anyone else have fairs coming up that they might be able to get in on?

3. Speaking of Edubuntu. What about local fund raising fairs, that periodically run, at the schools, etc? Or do they still have these type gatherings for the kids and parents any more? Tape into one or more of these to spread the word, show the ease of use, etc, off to the parents and the kids alike.

Okay, taken up enough white space. But just some expanding thoughts. If not accepted, no problem.

[azteech]

Oh, one other thought.

Have walked into several computer repair shops in tucson, looking for good buys. Not one has any information regarding linux posted, any of the free CDs made available for customers to grab, nor any systems running linux to show customers the look and feel of linux.
How about contacting these type local shops (in Tucson, a good one might be Computer Renaissance), to see if we could at least get them to display the free cd's, and information regarding our loco. Who knows, maybe we could even convince one or two to have linux running on a display system for customers to try out.

[johnc4510]

Ian, Polygon's point above is well founded. We would need to make sure people understand that ms programs, for the most part will not work with linux. And, we would need to be able to tell them what programs could be made to work via Wine or whatever. The most important thing, the most important, is that we don't contribute to people losing data because of us. Agreed?? That is something I will have to feel comfortable with before we even submit the idea to the team for final approval. Agreed?? Work on that part too. Thanks johnc4510

[johnc4510]

azteech, very good ideas, coordinate with ian and try to get all of this into one package for the team to consider. Both of you keep in mind that we must have in place someway of safeguarding ourselves against people losing there data. I don't know how exactly, but we must do something so that we don't endanger ourselves. Know what I mean? Thanks johnc4510

[johnc4510]

Ian ask Polygon to help with this too. You, azteech and Polygon. You are now the Ubuntu -Arizona Convert to Ubuntu project. Please confirm to me by email that this is a project the 3 of you are willing to take on. Thanks johnc4510

[azteech]

Agree with everyone. We don't want to mess with folks data. Some how we, as a collective, need to come up with a fool proof backup methodology that works for both windows (all flavors) as well as linux. Why both, well if folks are going to try this out, most will quite possibly dual-boot, until they are truly comfortable with linux. A lot, will dual boot, just because they can't just do without that one M$ program (tax software, checking, et all), or the gamers.

As a suggestion, we may want to start off by concentrating on showing folks the value of the livecd, 1st. That way we don't mess with folks data. True, it is a little slower, but, if we can get them interested, then i recommend we move to the next step, actual installation. By then we as a group, should be able to have a viable, rock solid backup solution and good documentation, in place, to ensure no data is lost.

John, I am willing to take this on. Will hook up with Ian and Polygon, to see if we can put something together. Am out of town tomorrow, and not back to tackle this until Friday evening. But will assist where I can.

[johnc4510]

Thanks Steve and I agree with your last post. You guys work together and get us a solid agenda so that Slick and I can look it over and approve it before you guys present it to the rest of the team. You guys can let us know at the meetings how you are progressing. OK? Since Ian got the ball rolling, we'll let him be team leader for this one if that's ok with you and Polygon. But your all equal and need to work that way, this is a TEAM effort. Thanks so much johnc4510 This loco is really a great bunch and I see nothing but good things ahead for us!!

[IanMcewen]

Sure, I can deal with that. Might be more ideas than action at least for me for a little bit here, but I'll do my best to contribute :)

Communication-wise, anyone can bother me anytime in IRC, via email, or on any of the protocols you see in my profile. I'll get back to it sometime; no guarantee I'll be at my computer when you message, but it's on all the time, so I'll get it eventually.

I'm glad to see stuff taking off here.

[bribri124]

I am going to start rambling on a few items now. Maybe this will help me sleep...

A. Polygon has a point about people who use "must have apps", especially TurboTax. I have three options:


For anyone who does not know, TT is made by Intuit. I do know several people who work there, like my girlfriend. Additionally, I have spoken with some serious *nix people. Some of them use VMs in testing software, and I have a copy of them. Maybe this is an option that will fulfill this need. Two obstacles I can think of about this: MS licensing and teaching people how to do it. The first one might not be much of a problem. Please correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of people tend to buy their 'puters from retail stores, which means there will be some type of disk they can use to reinstall their OS. This disk can be used to create a VM. The second issue, as with almost any other aspect of *nix and Ubuntu, is showing people how to do them. This can be done with demonstrations, documentation, and online support. I can find out more from these people who actually do perform this.

As I have seen posted by azteech and others, dual booting is another option.

Using Wine/Cedega. More to follow on this.


B. Ian, I agree with you about learning Wine. I am NOT a fan of Cedega/Crossover. The whole point of "freedom" is somewhat lost when you have to buy these apps. We will talk about this more on Sunday, but if needed, I will learn Wine with you.

C. JohnC, I will see what info I can find about for any fairs/events. A plan is definitely needed for these demonstrations. Here are a few:


What do people commonly use their computers for?
Show the most common apps for Ubuntu, i.e. Firefox, Evolution
What Ubuntu and Linux is about


D. I have been thinking a lot on this one, especially after the research Ian has done. We should have a Web site. Maybe I am jumping the gun a little bit, but we can build one while getting more people into the group. Here are some thoughts:


What is the overall goal for the site. Give support/develop a community in AZ.
What information to display:

Links the LoCo AZ forum, Launchpad
Education
Communication, i.e. physical meetings, IRC, upcoming events
Design a logo
Any specifics on what other members can do, i.e. web programming, app SME

What Ubuntu and Linux is about.
What Ubuntu can do for you.
Support info via IRC, email, IMs, phone


E. We should probably find out specific details on what we, as members, can do. We all use and want to support Ubuntu, but what else can we do? While there are no programmers in our ranks yet, is there anyone who is savvy in other IT areas, such as databases and networking? What about other aspects, like marketing and planning?

I am really starting to get motivated with this, and my mind is now working. I will keep thinking on anything else that could be done.

[azteech]

One suggestion to assist in learning more about team members may be to add a little bio area, with check boxes, for areas of likes/dislikes, areas of interests, background (ie, networking experience, programming experience, web design/development experience, etc.) Not sure if this is right forum for that, but, maybe the wiki?

[azteech]

Some of our initial work may be already done for us.

Just came across this document in the new help pages. Initial review says we may not need to polish it much, if at all. But some good initial reading for a guide to aid us in our conversion efforts.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromWindows

A lot of other good documents there as well.

[tech_monkee]

nice topic.

- i agree with helping people convert to ubuntu without losing their data. i myself have installed ubuntu on atleast 13 machines in the last year in the tucson area alone. most of these machines had word documents (ooo now of course) and some other data that was easily readable in linux with alternate software. i think wine was needed on one for one specific thing but i can't remember. most of these boxes where atleast 6 years old with ME on them and 1.0GHZ chips. now up and running like they where bought yesterday thanks to ubuntu. lots of these people didn't have the means or couldn't convince themselves to upgrade to a new machine for vista.

it goes a long way helping these people. almost of them have told me they won't pay for another pre-installed-windows pc ever again thanks to ubuntu.

- an automated proces to install bcom chips with ndiswrapper. i had a wicked hard time installing it on my laptop. was really the first guide i ever followed for anything linux related. for the not-tech-savvy linux users out there it might pose more of threat even with a guide to help them.

[sloggerkhan]

I have a very interesting idea about a long term project that we could look at doing.
Helping Native American Tribes localize Ubuntu seems like it would be a very interesting project. Currently tribes (Mostly I know something about the Navajo) seem to use English interfaces. Most are also EXTREMELY concerned with localization (or retention of their native languages). It seems likely that tribes would be extremely interested in getting technology that helped build and retain their languages. I bet we could create some sort of alliance for language localization. If it were successful, it would probably more or less guarantee that thousands of Native Americans would be using Linux. I am mostly thinking of the Navajo, as they are a large tribe and would serve as a good use case as there is probably a desire to implement a low-cost technology infrastructure for both home use and education on the reservation.
I am sorta developing this idea as I have a class with a Navajo Prof and many Navajo students... it's not really fully formed yet, but it seems like it might have possibilities.

[sloggerkhan]

Also, here are basic logos. I will atach SVGs to this post so there's a vector format.
Any comments for improvements are welcome... Want a background like the AZ flag or something, let me know. Maybe you want the logo more 3-D? Or maybe you want a complete new idea from scratch? Let me know (or make something better yourself ;) )

http://ubuntuforums.org/g/images/176924/1_ArizonaProjection.png

[Todd Bealmear]

As far as the web site goes, I come from an extensive web development background. I can definitely assist with constructing that if needed.

[Technophobia]

Todd we are first going to shape our Ubuntu Wiki page ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam ) and your more than welcome to help. After we have a solid community wiki page we'll go after a website.

[sloggerkhan]

http://ubuntuforums.org/g/images/176924/1_UbaAzMore.png

Here's some Logos like I got PMed about. I am going to touch them up a bit. Some things look a little off-center and such. (Got a bit sloppy.)

Slogger

[IanMcewen]

I'll go from most recent to oldest:

Todd: Awesome.
Slogger: Awesome as well. My one OCD little complaint would be that the ubuntu logo could be a couple nicks up and to the left in the left logo, and I think it might look better. 'course, I've been wrong before :) The one on the right looks good except that Arizona looks a bit funny. Anyway, sweet.
As to your localization idea, seems like an excellent idea. I guess we'd need to find someone that could work as some sort of liaison to whichever tribes we approach?
azteech: That does seem to be a good document. I'd forgotten about 7.04's Migration Assistant - I switched during Edgy - that'll make things quite a bit easier.
As to bios: Everyone can and should make an account on the wiki, add themselves to the Arizona Team page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam), and then create the page (with Category:Homepage) that coincides with their username (for example, my page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IanMcewen)). Great centralized place for bio information, as well as a team listing. Not bad things to have :)
bribri124: A: Everything sounds great to me. B: Yeah, I understand that. Wine can be rather frustrating to many people, which is why I bring up Cedega, but I'm certainly not in favor of paying for 'free' software (that, notably, was created using a loophole in a license for Wine, and then kept only barely in the realm of open source. Certainly not a fan of Cedega here.) C: Yep. D: Everything sounds great, just one addition: A link to download Ubuntu, prominently placed. If we intend to direct people there, seems to be we should make sure they know EXACTLY where to get Ubuntu (also, saw this on the Ohio site... yeah, it's easy to copy from established teams). E: Yeah, exactly. That was what I'd really meant with my previous comment about specific interests; if we find something everyone's interested in doing, we can get ourselves moving by doing that, and then branch out to other stuff. As to my own savvy, I mostly just do what I feel like doing, so I have a general, but shallow knowledge of stuff.

[sloggerkhan]

I have the same issue with it being centered correctly. I will fix it. It occurs because verticle centering about the star makes the circle off-center relative to the top-bottom divide since the star is mostly in the lower half.

So far as tribes go, we should probably begin by finding out which local ones have ISO character codes.

Attached are my latest SVG, and SVG flag from wikimedia commons. Best edited with inkscape, though you can open as xml.... as a warning the flag is made of like 50 elements... the star is even made of a bunch of triangles so it will take some messing to make usable.

[IanMcewen]

Some of my own messings-with the logo; I'm unsure about the transparency in the second, but I don't like the low contrast for the text in the first. Anyway, up for public review.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/ianmcorvidae/g10862.png
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/ianmcorvidae/g9777.png

[sloggerkhan]

I think the top one is pretty good. I think I'll mess around with a similar arangement.

Here's a version working off of your positioning (not exact, worked from visual of yours.)

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30985&stc=1&d=1177650387

I'll add the SVG later.

[IanMcewen]

First of all, sorry for not including the .svg's. You seem to have gotten it, though, with some improvement (most notably, the larger star). You know how to use inkscape, that's got to help :P

Looks good to me (of course, most everything has :P); the one issue I might have with it is the color change on the logo. I'm also not sure how to fit it in with the original colors, though, so we may go with it.

[Technophobia]

I like the red text more in the newest version. Maybe solid Blue for the people?

[Polygon]

i like sloggerkhans in his latest post, it looks nice

[IanMcewen]

Red text is definitely in, I think :)

My problem was just that I don't really like changing the branding colors (i.e. from the red/orange/brownish stuff they came); but it's really OK with me in the long run; it just might be a problem with either Ubuntu higher-ups or just branding continuity in general.

If we do keep the blue, I think I prefer the transparent blue; seems to me it makes it more unified. But that's me, once again :)

[sloggerkhan]

repost of images, with some differences, SVG and PNG

Centered Versions (Probably not as desirable)
http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31002&stc=1&d=1177672399

Off-Centered Versions
http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31004&stc=1&d=1177672399

[IanMcewen]

I still vote for the off-centered one with the semi-transparent 'Circle of Friends' logo.

[sloggerkhan]

I still vote for the off-centered one with the semi-transparent 'Circle of Friends' logo.

I like that one, too. Solid blue is OK, too. I've had a request for another one in a completely different style. I'll work on it and post it later. At this point I'm mostly trying to get a variety of possibilities out there.

[bribri124]

My vote is for the 1st one in PairAZc.svg file. Different, but still the same Ubuntu logo.

[sloggerkhan]

So here are some ones that are more Banner/Button style. I think there was some interest.

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31102&d=1177732910

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31103&d=1177733748

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31104&d=1177733748

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31105&d=1177733823

Oops! Not the same size renders, lol :( Keep in mind they can always (should have been) be made smaller.

Since these more or less come from the same design, I'm only attaching 1 svg.

[johnc4510]

Very nice Sloggerkhan, thanks for doing these for us.

[IanMcewen]

I did a bit of messing with the banners to make them more to my liking; I don't really like the double-icon thing much. Just used some of the earlier icons as a single icon in the banners Slogger provided (mainly because, I don't know much of how to use Inkscape :-) ). Of course, this could be done to any of the banners... just a proof-of-concept, if you will :)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/ianmcorvidae/g5988.png

[IanMcewen]

In light of Ubuntu Trademark Policy (http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy), I messed with my last banner a bit. (everything I put in it is in the last .svg I posted, so use that):

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/ianmcorvidae/g2427.png

I like this idea more because it gives us a smaller single logo for use where we don't want to have the central text or the border; also, it seems to me to look better.

Also, with all of these, resizing is possible and likely. Large is easier for editing, though :)

[IanMcewen]

So far as tribes go, we should probably begin by finding out which local ones have ISO character codes.

The specification used by Ubuntu is ISO 639-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes); Navajo is the only one on that list, of the tribes I know.