My beef with Opera

[dspari1]

Before I start this discussion, I will say that I am currently writing this post using Opera before I uninstall it. I've been hearing a lot of hype about Opera and how it's the fastest most compliant browser on the market.

My response to this is yes and no. It's true that this browser is the fastest browser that I've ever used, but what's the point of using a browser that doesn't let me do anything?

These are my initial tests when I first loaded up Opera:
www.youtube.com - works perfectly (So I know the flash player actually works)
www.foxnews.com - flash player doesn't work (black screen)
www.abcnews.com - flash player doesn't work (Gray screen)
www.msnbc.com - I give this site a pass, but why doesn't Opera allow me to switch the browser id to see if it might work?
www.livio.com - midi player doesn't load (yes, I'm Dominican)
www.cnn.com - movies doesn't work

At this point I don't even care if a different movie plugin will even make cnn.com work with Opera because if this browser's flash plugin isn't even compatible with the most common news sites, what do I expect from other sites? Why even use Opera if I'm constantly going to have to load Konqueror or FireFox anyways? I understand that speed is important, but that benefit deminishes as soon as I run into a site that doesn't work and have to load another browser.

Konqueror on the other hand is a bit slower, but it's equally as compliant as Opera and is even more compatible than FireFox with Flash. I have to hand it to the KDE team for making what I believe is the best browser available for Linux atm.

[paark.s]

I agreed with you on flash with opera but to me opera feature just suit my needs.

a few things i love/hate about opera;

-a copy to note and paste from note function
-integrate mail client. I only use this client to send email and use thunderbird as main email client because it is much faster to send this way.by faster ,i mean less step.
-speed dial in 9.2
-eat less resource than firefox(my opinion)
-user mode and authur mode function
-mouse gesture
-fast with no plugin needed website
-recently closed icon next to the tab bar
and
-opera handle flash super crap(I totally agreed)
-It does not print the way it show in preview some time
-no opera's own plugin, borrow from mozilla
-feeds are very hard to use compared to firefox

I use dillo too, on some site it's quite convenient sometimes.

[mech7]

I don't know about linux but flash works great on opera on windows.

[dspari1]

I don't know about linux but flash works great on opera on windows.

Firefox and Opera are both different beasts in Linux.You'll find webpages that work fine in the Windows version, but give problems in Linux. Thus far, Konqueror has given me the best results when it comes to compatibility.

I hate being a fanboy, but my results are honest. When Opera handles Flash a bit better, I will give it another shot because the browser really is much faster at rendering pages.

[dspari1]

I agreed with you on flash with opera but to me opera feature just suit my needs.

a few things i love/hate about opera;

-a copy to note and paste from note function
-integrate mail client. I only use this client to send email and use thunderbird as main email client because it is much faster to send this way.by faster ,i mean less step.
-speed dial in 9.2
-eat less resource than firefox(my opinion)
-user mode and authur mode function
-mouse gesture
-fast with no plugin needed website
-recently closed icon next to the tab bar
and
-opera handle flash super crap(I totally agreed)
-It does not print the way it show in preview some time
-no opera's own plugin, borrow from mozilla
-feeds are very hard to use compared to firefox

I use dillo too, on some site it's quite convenient sometimes.

fair enough.

[Colonel Kilkenny]

At this point I don't even care if a different movie plugin will even make cnn.com work with Opera because if this browser's flash plugin isn't even compatible with the most common news sites, what do I expect from other sites? Why even use Opera if I'm constantly going to have to load Konqueror or FireFox anyways? I understand that speed is important, but that benefit deminishes as soon as I run into a site that doesn't work and have to load another browser.

It is Adobe which makes flash plugins for browsers.
I have a pretty good guess which one of these two (Adobe, Opera) is to blame if Flash-plugin in Linux doesn't work in Opera...

And why couldn't you change browser identification in msnbc.com?

[Marc_UK]

The angry world of computers, when people start having "beefs" with internet browsers.

I had a fight the other day with Gimp, I threatened to switch to Gimpshop, he eventually disappeared.

[dspari1]

It is Adobe which makes flash plugins for browsers.
I have a pretty good guess which one of these two (Adobe, Opera) is to blame if Flash-plugin in Linux doesn't work in Opera...

And why couldn't you change browser identification in msnbc.com?

Is there a way to spoof msnbc.com into thinking that it's firefox?

[dspari1]

The angry world of computers, when people start having "beefs" with internet browsers.

I had a fight the other day with Gimp, I threatened to switch to Gimpshop, he eventually disappeared.

:popcorn:

[dspari1]

It is Adobe which makes flash plugins for browsers.
I have a pretty good guess which one of these two (Adobe, Opera) is to blame if Flash-plugin in Linux doesn't work in Opera...

And why couldn't you change browser identification in msnbc.com?

The plugin works fine in other browsers; thus it's adobe's problem! Do you see a problem with that logic?

[Colonel Kilkenny]

The plugin works fine in other browsers; thus it's adobe's problem! Do you see a problem with that logic?


Those "grey boxes" you get with Flash are the Flash Player plugin crashing. It is a bug in the plugin, not in Opera.

That's one quote from Opera Developer (14. April 2007). So no, I do not see problem in that logic.

And right click on web page -> Edit site preferences -> Network -> Mask as Firefox...

[sketchie]

Before I start this discussion, I will say that I am currently writing this post using Opera before I uninstall it. I've been hearing a lot of hype about Opera and how it's the fastest most compliant browser on the market.

My response to this is yes and no. It's true that this browser is the fastest browser that I've ever used, but what's the point of using a browser that doesn't let me do anything?

These are my initial tests when I first loaded up Opera:
www.youtube.com - works perfectly (So I know the flash player actually works)
www.foxnews.com - flash player doesn't work (black screen)
www.abcnews.com - flash player doesn't work (Gray screen)
www.msnbc.com - I give this site a pass, but why doesn't Opera allow me to switch the browser id to see if it might work?
www.livio.com - midi player doesn't load (yes, I'm Dominican)
www.cnn.com - movies doesn't work

At this point I don't even care if a different movie plugin will even make cnn.com work with Opera because if this browser's flash plugin isn't even compatible with the most common news sites, what do I expect from other sites? Why even use Opera if I'm constantly going to have to load Konqueror or FireFox anyways? I understand that speed is important, but that benefit deminishes as soon as I run into a site that doesn't work and have to load another browser.

Konqueror on the other hand is a bit slower, but it's equally as compliant as Opera and is even more compatible than FireFox with Flash. I have to hand it to the KDE team for making what I believe is the best browser available for Linux atm.

I've run Opera on both Windows and Ubuntu and admittably I think theres a few unresolved issues in the Linux version.

When it comes to flash, I've only noticed one bug and I'm not sure if it's just me so feel free to try this...
Go onto a website with flash on, (IE: http://youtube.com), open a new tab and load any website. Close this tab, and then the flash on youtube will turn into a grey box. Quite annoying really :(.

[Bloodfen Razormaw]

Konqueror on the other hand is a bit slower, but it's equally as compliant as Opera and is even more compatible than FireFox with Flash. I have to hand it to the KDE team for making what I believe is the best browser available for Linux atm.
Konqueror is actually more standards compliant than even Opera now, and definitely blows Firefox away in that department. Konqueror is also not really slower than Opera on a standard site; it's only when Javascript is used you should notice a difference. Opera's javascript engine is superior to anything out there; the only thing slower than KJS is the WebKit javascript engine, which of course is based on KJS. :P

Nevertheless I can't understand some of your complaints. Opera will let you change your browser id (in fact its immediately accessible with just the F12 menu). I'm looking at Fox News and don't see any Flash, only embedded video. That means you need a video player plugin, not Flash. Naturally Konqueror handles this better than any browser, since it uses KParts to view embedded objects instead of arbitrary plugin systems like other browsers. So you can view embedded content of any type that you have a KPart to support. No need for plugins to view embedded PDF, Word documents, multimedia, or anything else. If you have software on your system that supports it, Konqueror does too. I remember when Firefox users wanted Firefox to implement ODF support. It made me chuckle, since Konqueror already did since the moment ODF support was added to KOffice, and without the need for reimplementing it in the browser. Since Opera is not integrated into a desktop, it lacks that kind of advantage.

[BarfBag]

While I believe Konqueror is the best web browser (when you get right down to it), I'm a Firefox fan boy. I've been using it since it changed it's name to Firefox. In Windows, it's always worked flawlessly. In Linux, it's been a little unstable, but it's the only browser I've used that works on virtually every web site. The Mozilla engine needs a little work on Linux, but it has hope and potential to be better.

[jrusso2]

I have had Opera work well on other distros but the plugins don't seem to work on Ubuntu because they require Open Motif to work and I have not been able to find a way to install this on Ubuntu.

[dspari1]

That's one quote from Opera Developer (14. April 2007). So no, I do not see problem in that logic.

And right click on web page -> Edit site preferences -> Network -> Mask as Firefox...

What did the Flash Developers say about it? I doubt it's Flash when Firefox and Konqueror works with the same exact plugin file, but ok...

[dspari1]

Konqueror is actually more standards compliant than even Opera now, and definitely blows Firefox away in that department. Konqueror is also not really slower than Opera on a standard site; it's only when Javascript is used you should notice a difference. Opera's javascript engine is superior to anything out there; the only thing slower than KJS is the WebKit javascript engine, which of course is based on KJS. :P

Nevertheless I can't understand some of your complaints. Opera will let you change your browser id (in fact its immediately accessible with just the F12 menu). I'm looking at Fox News and don't see any Flash, only embedded video. That means you need a video player plugin, not Flash. Naturally Konqueror handles this better than any browser, since it uses KParts to view embedded objects instead of arbitrary plugin systems like other browsers. So you can view embedded content of any type that you have a KPart to support. No need for plugins to view embedded PDF, Word documents, multimedia, or anything else. If you have software on your system that supports it, Konqueror does too. I remember when Firefox users wanted Firefox to implement ODF support. It made me chuckle, since Konqueror already did since the moment ODF support was added to KOffice, and without the need for reimplementing it in the browser. Since Opera is not integrated into a desktop, it lacks that kind of advantage.


1. Attached to this post is the foxnews adobe flash screenshot. As you can see foxnews.com uses flash for its video and not an embedded video. Just rightclick on the video, and you'll see that it's flash.

2. I couldn't find where I could change the id, but thanks for letting me know.

[daynah]

Some of those sites worked fine, ABC didn't. Then again, it didn't in Firefox either. :P

[Bloodfen Razormaw]

Attached to this post is the foxnews adobe flash screenshot. As you can see foxnews.com uses flash for its video and not an embedded video. Just rightclick on the video, and you'll see that it's flash.
Interesting. When I try viewing videos I see an embedded Kaffeine KPart which plays an embedded WMV file. I don't have Flash installed, so maybe it falls back on WMV.


2. I couldn't find where I could change the id, but thanks for letting me know.
Looking on Google it says version 9 removed the user agent options for the F12 menu. It's still there, but you have to drill down through the main menus to get to them. Quite unfortunate, having it available for change at a moment's notice was a great feature. I have only found one site in the past year that Konqueror couldn't use perfectly which was not caused by browser sniffing and fixable with a user agent override. With the idiocy of the average web application developer, making that feature available as quickly as possible is a must.

[dspari1]

Some of those sites worked fine, ABC didn't. Then again, it didn't in Firefox either. :P

BUT it does work in Konqueror.

[dspari1]

I have had Opera work well on other distros but the plugins don't seem to work on Ubuntu because they require Open Motif to work and I have not been able to find a way to install this on Ubuntu.

Acknowledged. If it's an Ubuntu problem that I'm having, I retract my statements about Opera.

[Polygon]

just to throw this out there, i also have a lot of problems with the flash plugin + firefox. it seems that if i have a video playing in youtube in opera, and i switch tabs, the video stops for a second and then starts again. and then it sometimes crashes in opera if im posting in other tabs and other stuff

but in firefox it does not seem to have this problem.... im pretty sure its a flash plugin issue but its still annoying.

[Bloodfen Razormaw]

A wonderfully common theme with proprietary software: broken, broken, and more broken. Hence why I keep my system free-software only. I'd rather just not have annoying flash ads than browse youtube.

BTW, if you need Flash just for youtube, with just a little extra work you can get around that. Visit this site (http://video.qooqle.jp/dl/) and download the Flash video. Libxine and Mplayer based video players support FLV.

[dspari1]

A wonderfully common theme with proprietary software: broken, broken, and more broken. Hence why I keep my system free-software only. I'd rather just not have annoying flash ads than browse youtube.

BTW, if you need Flash just for youtube, with just a little extra work you can get around that. Visit this site (http://video.qooqle.jp/dl/) and download the Flash video. Libxine and Mplayer based video players support FLV.

Adblock eliminates the vast majority of flash ads. That's my way around it.

[jiminycricket]

Opera 9.2 is annoying to me. I love it on Windows, but on Linux it's 100 times slower than 9.1, which segfaults otherwise. Also, they say that Flash 9 is buggy so it crashes whenver you go to a new tab and then try to switch back, but that doesn't happen in Firefox. Also, the totem video plugin doesn't work, it just crashes again.

I would use Firefox but my computer is not fast enough for it and amount of tabs I use...

PS: Has anyone tried swfdec (not the one in the feisty repos, the one that can do youtube) in Opera?

[Bezmotivnik]

There were so many things I hated in Opera in either Ubuntu or XP that I can't make a meaningful list. The killer was their mail client. I hate Thunderbird, but it isn't as plain boneheadedly conceived and executed as Opera's.

I love Opera's look, but not much else about it.

[argie]

While we're talking about the UA spoofing, anyone know what the difference is between Opera's "Identify as Mozilla" and "Mask as Mozilla"?

[SunnyRabbiera]

well some of the issues with opera are not entirely opera's fault, actually the flash issues come from adobe.
For some odd bizzare reason flash in opera on linux is off, there should be no reason for it but it is there.
This is not about standrds compliance or anything, this is about something goofed in flash itself.
Opera is a great browser, rather if its open source or not it does do a good job for the most part except with flash in linux.
The support with flash 9 in opera linux is only partial, hopefully adobe can smarten up a bit here.

[igknighted]

well some of the issues with opera are not entirely opera's fault, actually the flash issues come from adobe.
For some odd bizzare reason flash in opera on linux is off, there should be no reason for it but it is there.
This is not about standrds compliance or anything, this is about something goofed in flash itself.
Opera is a great browser, rather if its open source or not it does do a good job for the most part except with flash in linux.
The support with flash 9 in opera linux is only partial, hopefully adobe can smarten up a bit here.

I would rather web designers smarten up and STOP USING FLASH... its really annoying, even if it works properly. I used to get all my sports news from espn.com, but I switched sites because espn uses too much flash. If my news site (breitbart) started going flash crazy i would ditch it too. /rant.

[Colonel Kilkenny]

While we're talking about the UA spoofing, anyone know what the difference is between Opera's "Identify as Mozilla" and "Mask as Mozilla"?

I'm not 100% sure about this but:
Identify... leaves word Opera on headers. Mask as... sends exactly the same headers as Firefox.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I would rather web designers smarten up and STOP USING FLASH... its really annoying, even if it works properly. I used to get all my sports news from espn.com, but I switched sites because espn uses too much flash. If my news site (breitbart) started going flash crazy i would ditch it too. /rant.

Thats never going to happen, flash is too much of a staplemark.
Its lightwieght compared to other presentators, certainly beats AVI by a mile.

[igknighted]

Thats never going to happen, flash is too much of a staplemark.
Its lightwieght compared to other presentators, certainly beats AVI by a mile.

It's nice for sites like youtube to store media, but go to nike.com or the espn website where they make the interface in flash and you sit there waiting for animations... thats what I hate.

[mech7]

It's nice for sites like youtube to store media, but go to nike.com or the espn website where they make the interface in flash and you sit there waiting for animations... thats what I hate.

Not all websites are purely for information..