Should the Ubuntu commercial attack windows ?

[ubuntu_demon]

Let's do a poll about this. Should the ubuntu commercial attack windows ?

Only post about this question in this thread. The rest regarding the ubuntu commercial idea goes here :

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=213252

If we decide to attack windows it would have to be so funny that it's ridiculous. Maybe something like :

all aliens are using windows and their ufo's are crashing constantly. But even a squirrel can use Ubuntu without any problems.

Also this Ubuntu commercial isn't an official one ... so we get a bit more "creative freedom".

Do you guys remember the george orwell commercial from apple ?

If we decide not to attack windows we have to think really hard to do something that is very funny. So I think if we don't attack windows ... we just have to do some crazy african stuff .... no computing / computers in it.

If this poll is gonna be a close call we have to postpone the decision and just decide which script is better.

I think the most important thing is that we make this commercial funny as hell. We want this to spread. This way we get people to the ubuntu websites. (like http://www.spreadubuntu.org) .. at these websites they can read the stuff in a relaxed way.

I voted "I don't know"

If we want to spread this commercial really fast using p2p it has to be funny or very slick.

By attack I meant attacking windows or comparing to windows.

Here are some of the arguments that might appeal to you :

some pro attacking arguments :
-t is necessary to compare to windows because there are a lot of people who think windows is the only OS possible (they don't think about this).

some anti-attacking arguments :
-tell people about the good stuff instead of making it negative/competitive
-people who use windows don't want to be looked down upon
-we can make a commercial that creates a buzz about the word ubuntu (we might choose to not even trow a computer in)

Only post about this question in this thread. The rest regarding the ubuntu commercial idea goes here :

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=213252


If you want to help with marketing Ubuntu please cooperate with these efforts :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam

edit :

MHO this thread has served it's purpose. All important things that could be said are said. I'm closing it.

The result of the poll is clear : an Ubuntu commercial shouldn't attack windows

[sonny]

I think that Ubuntu (and Linux in general) has many positive things that we don't need to attack MS to make people realize Linux is superior than MS.

[desdinova]

I voted no as I think it would be unprofessional and besides, Linux has enough strengths without relying on humour which is at best difficult to appreciate for people (remember, you'd have to reach a common ground with a lot of people).

[tread]

Also, when you attack windows, or poke fun at it .. you are indirectly making fun of the people using it. Most people do not react well to being ridiculed and we might end up with an effect at antipodes with what we desire.

[Xian]

It's been done (by Apple) and went nowhere.

[sonny]

Also, when you attack windows, or poke fun at it .. you are indirectly making fun of the people using it. Most people do not react well to being ridiculed and we might end up with an effect at antipodes with what we desire.
You're absolutely right... we have to take into account that effect.

[ubuntu_demon]

Also, when you attack windows, or poke fun at it .. you are indirectly making fun of the people using it. Most people do not react well to being ridiculed and we might end up with an effect at antipodes with what we desire.
This is something to think about. If we do it .. we don't want to ridicule the people using windows. (if that can be done)

[ubuntu_demon]

I voted no as I think it would be unprofessional and besides, Linux has enough strengths without relying on humour which is at best difficult to appreciate for people (remember, you'd have to reach a common ground with a lot of people).
humour is the best way to make a short movie travel the p2p networks

[desdinova]

Agreed - go to some sites such as osdir.com and they're full of the "TCO" ads that claim Linux is more expensive. It doesn't bode well for your product if your advert comprises of attacking your opposition - it leaves a residual feeling that the product cannot compete on its strengths......

[desdinova]

humour is the best way to make a short movie travel the p2p networks

I don't do p2p.

[ubuntu_demon]

I don't do p2p.
p2p is a free way to reach a lot of people if the commercial is really good

Also we could try to collect funds and do it another way. but that's more risky.

[desdinova]

Some isp's block p2p because of the piracy implications though - I know the major reason I don't do p2p is that as a musician myself I'd rather pay the musician for their music rather then download it.

Besides p2p will not spread the commercial where it most needs to go, into the living rooms of people.

[gylf]

Also, when you attack windows, or poke fun at it .. you are indirectly making fun of the people using it. Most people do not react well to being ridiculed and we might end up with an effect at antipodes with what we desire.

/agree

[sonny]

Some isp's block p2p because of the piracy implications though - I know the major reason I don't do p2p is that as a musician myself I'd rather pay the musician for their music rather then download it.

Besides p2p will not spread the commercial where it most needs to go, into the living rooms of people.
Can you do some soundtrack music to go with the commercial?

[ubuntu_demon]

Some isp's block p2p because of the piracy implications though - I know the major reason I don't do p2p is that as a musician myself I'd rather pay the musician for their music rather then download it.

Besides p2p will not spread the commercial where it most needs to go, into the living rooms of people.
p2p can be used for legal stuff too! We could make a website with rss feed so people can use their favorite rss agregator to see when a new ubuntu commercial torrent arrives (for example)

p2p is a start ... we could do it more ambitiously after that

I'm going to sleep now .. see you guys tomorrow :)

[desdinova]

Can you do some soundtrack music to go with the commercial?

Not unless you want some pretty heavy guitar....

[desdinova]

p2p can be used for legal stuff too! We could make a website with rss feed so people can use their favorite rss agregator to see when a new ubuntu commercial torrent arrives (for example)

p2p is a start ... we could do it more ambitiously after that

I'm going to sleep now .. see you guys tomorrow :)

Thats as may be, but p2p still doesn't have much penetration beyond music and videos.....

[sonny]

Not unless you want some pretty heavy guitar....
And what is wrong with a pretty heavy guitar?? Linux can be heavy too, it doesn't have to classic, it can be anything.

I think we should take this discussion to the ubuntu comercial theard http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41771

[Takis]

It's going to be pretty hard to let people know what on earth Ubuntu is without mentioning Windows. My impression is that for most people out there 'computer' is synonymous with 'Windows'. My dad, for example, thought Linux was an app like Firefox or Office.

[vega44]

1: if you want to get into a lawsuit with micosoft. go right ahead!
2: no FUNNY stuff, that would make linux look stupid and unprofessional.
3: acting like a buch of kids and making jokes and fun with Aliens is going to backfire, i don't find any kind of hummer in the OS i use. i look for stable, working and safe, with a lot of people and support, NOT Aliens!

this is your frist.

[Optimal Aurora]

Personally, I like to use Windows (it was after all my first operating system that I truely learnt how to use and adapt to the "few" errors I encountered)... I like Ubuntu as well, but I think that no one down one OS over another, however, its hard to say that Ubuntu has all these advantages and to others out there they may be stuff or situations that don't premit them to use any form of linux... So if you make a commerical don't put down windows or any other OS...

[bored2k]

A product making fun of its competition can not and will not be taking seriously. Ever. Point out Ubuntu's strong points that the competition you want to crush lack, then let the users figure things out by theirselves. Kiwinz once said something like that.

IMO that would be very childish and immature, wich is very improper coming form Ubuntu (mature, sleek, slim, brown).

[electrosoccertux]

It needs to be like the advertisement for the Hydracons or whatever in Doom 3....
Or like older commercials.

In other words....they completely capture your attention for the whole commercial because they are artistic and fun to watch. Both of those have complete visual integration from one scene to the next.

It should also have a new presentation idea...kinda like those HP commercials a while ago with the picture frames. The guy would hold it for a second and then place it somewhere, and it would retain the image from where he held it. Very neat looking; having him put them onto his head or taking them off or coming off the screen, etc.

I think an interesting idea would be to show how silly it is to think that the TCO for Linux is higher than windows. Definately needs humor tho.

[SamH]

I voted "yes" but many of you have made me rethink that vote.

However, IF the humor was not sophmoric, cheap shot, type humor, it still might work.

Maybe a sci-fi looking thing of people using advanced looking portable PCs with Ubuntu logos on their screens sifting through old dusty books, disks, etc in an old dusty office. Subtitle says something like "Year 2080".

One person picks up an old dusty, book. Blows some dirt off of it, peers intently at the cover. Nudges a colleague and says, "Do you recognize this?"
Colleague examines. "No, I've never seen it in my life."

Book gets passed around, no one recognizes the emblem. Camera pans in on the front of the book. Visible are no words, but a version of the Windows emblem is plain to see.

The latest holder of the book tosses it aside and says, "It must not have been very important."

Fade out to a closing screen with the Ubuntu logo and the words "Ubuntu, the OS for human beings. www.ubuntulinux.org"

Hmm.....I guess I better not quit my day job to go into advertising. :wink:

[aragorn2909]

Attack? IMHO, absolutely not. It gives M$ one very good reason to really go on the offensive, and if any entity has the resources and wherewithall to wage a marketing and p/r war, its Microsoft. That being said, the basics for any sort of advertising/commercial is finding out what your target market is. Then, what message are you going to try to send to that target, and how are you going to send it? With any combination, humour is a very tricky way to try and get a message across. Whats funny to me, is entirely offensive to the next person. Let the product speak for itself. I have switched from XP to Linux, and I didn't do it because I saw a commercial that made me laugh, I did it because of the inherent value I saw already in the product, and the future potential in it. I believe (and forgive the rhetoric) that we are standing on the edge of no less than a computing revolution, if handled properly. We must always take the high road, and not allow ourselves to be brought down to a level where we do nothing but mudsling and tell "fart jokes" to draw attention to our OS'. Because Linux is more than just an os. Without overstating it, Linux, and the beliefs behind it, helps us, (in small or large part) define who we are, as individuals, and as a community.

(whew, glad to get that off my chest)

[poofyhairguy]

Let's do a poll about this. Should the ubuntu commercial attack windows ?

No. No direct attacks.

We must give up the inferiority complex.

Now if you want to say "no spyware, viruses" be my guest.

[ubuntu_demon]

No. No direct attacks.

We must give up the inferiority complex.

Now if you want to say "no spyware, viruses" be my guest.

IMO that's attacking too.

[ubuntu_demon]

1: if you want to get into a lawsuit with micosoft. go right ahead!


The majority of the people doesn't want to attack windows.



2: no FUNNY stuff, that would make linux look stupid and unprofessional.
3: acting like a buch of kids and making jokes and fun with Aliens is going to backfire, i don't find any kind of hummer in the OS i use. i look for stable, working and safe, with a lot of people and support, NOT Aliens!

this is your frist.

I think this commercial has to be either very very very slick and cool (3d rendered .. very beautiful) or very funny (or both) to spread to a lot of people. I don't see anything wrong with funny as long as we don't make too much fun of Ubuntu.


Thsi thread is about whether or not to attack windows. We should discuss these things here :

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41771

[ubuntu_demon]

It's going to be pretty hard to let people know what on earth Ubuntu is without mentioning Windows. My impression is that for most people out there 'computer' is synonymous with 'Windows'. My dad, for example, thought Linux was an app like Firefox or Office.
true... IMO that's why we need to make everyone curious about the word Ubuntu without showing a computer or anything like this

[ubuntu_demon]

It needs to be like the advertisement for the Hydracons or whatever in Doom 3....
Or like older commercials.

In other words....they completely capture your attention for the whole commercial because they are artistic and fun to watch. Both of those have complete visual integration from one scene to the next.


good idea. Let's take this here : http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41771

[student]

maybe something like :
windows is for gay people, linux is for things that work (or for working) :razz:

but the image should make gay mean joyfull, because otherwise the gay's may be offended ;-)

[sonny]

maybe something like :
windows is for gay people, linux is for things that work (or for working) :razz:

but the image should make gay mean joyfull, because otherwise the gay's may be offended ;-)

If we take gay as in joyfull people wont use Linux, cuz they'll think it is a boring OS, and if we take gay as in homosexual we are offending them, and losing a part of the market, and I'm sure there's a lot of gay people using Linux as well, cuz it's not about your sexual prefferences, or your religion, is not about where you live or where you come from, it beyond that, it's for humans.

[skoal]

Well, this seemed like the proper place to present another idea for a commercial. Are there any good CGI artists around here in these forums? If so, just watch this video (http://www.tarmo.fi/arc/monkeydance.mpeg) all the way through, and replace any instances of "Microsoft" (on a wall or podium) with "Ubuntu". I can't think of a better spokesman for Ubuntu than this gentleman...

\\//_

[Mez]

I am now ... very... very scared

[sonny]

Well it needs to be more Linux-like, cuz if we do this, the people that supports windows will say: "We've done that"

[student]

they'll think it is a boring OS
if we take gay as in homosexual we are offending them,
very true, but,
if you give linux to a user that expect's it to be maybe a little more complex than windows, that user is gonna get scared. And if he still wants to use it, he's gonna do whatever they tell him, without thinking.
It's like if you give someone that uses only a ps2, a windows xp pc, and tell him he'll be able to play his games with more options and stuff, he's gonna get scared.

And about the gay people,
I know a gay who has become a close friend of mine. Once I asked him if he knew that beeing gay, he's kinda against nature.
At first he was upset with me, but after a while, he said I was right. Nature intended a man to reproduce with a female. But he kept true to his feeling of love, and that was a feeling that nature gave him as well, and was more imported to him. And I said he was right, and we became even better friends.

But hey, I know, this is just my individual opinion... :smile:

[sonny]

I think that we should make a commercial as if Ubuntu were a new product, we can do a comming soon type of commercial, so people would expect the real commercial.

[mark]

This is one of the things that bothers me about the Linux community in general - the "attack" syndrome - I voted "no" ... This is not about "attacking" Windows or any other OS - this is about being the best OS available. We don't need to use "attack" tactics - just be the OS that we are...

Mark

[student]

This is one of the things that bothers me about the Linux community in general - the "attack" syndrome - I voted "no" ... This is not about "attacking" Windows or any other OS - this is about being the best OS available. We don't need to use "attack" tactics - just be the OS that we are...

Mark

Thats why I think you can attack it, by telling the truth.
I think every linux user knows why he should attack windows, not ?

[ubuntu_demon]

This is one of the things that bothers me about the Linux community in general - the "attack" syndrome - I voted "no" ... This is not about "attacking" Windows or any other OS - this is about being the best OS available. We don't need to use "attack" tactics - just be the OS that we are...

Mark
Well being able to discuss this kind of thing without turning into a flamewar is something that's great about the Ubuntu community :)

By attacking I also meant comparing. So IMO things like "no virusses" is also some sort of attack to windows.

I voted "I don't know"

[sonny]

We don't need to use "attack" tactics - just be the OS that we are...
I agree Linux is able to defend himself without attacking anyone, and we have to show exactly that.


I think every linux user knows why he should attack windows, not ?
Yes, but the commercial is for the Non Linux users, and if we attack Windows (their OS) they might get offended. If we tell them Ubuntu is fast; they will compare Ubuntu-speed agains Windows-speed and that's what we want, to get them corious about Ubuntu, that way they'll think about it, we can say, make a pdf document with one click using OO, and they'll get curious.

Those positive things are the ones we have to show, not attacking windows that way we don't let the people thinking, we get them mad.

[sonny]

By attacking I also meant comparing. So IMO things like "no virusses" is also some sort of attack to windows.

I voted "I don't know"
I don't think comparing would be attacking, but if you campare in a rude way then you're attacking. IF we are going to compare, we have to do it in an objective way, and as we all love Ubuntu (and GNU/Linux) that will be hard to acomplish.

[ubuntu_demon]

I don't think comparing would be attacking, but if you campare in a rude way then you're attacking. IF we are going to compare, we have to do it in an objective way, and as we all love Ubuntu (and GNU/Linux) that will be hard to acomplish.

But how do you compare it and be funny without being rude ?

I don't think that's easily possible. And if we don't make it funny how will we spread the p2p networks ?

[sonny]

But how do you compare it and be funny without being rude ?
That is why I think that we shouldn't compare at all, just say the positive things we have, the users will realized that.

Is not same saying: Linux is virus free
than: Linux doesn't have virus and MS does have millons of them.

When comparing the name of MS is going to apear, if we just say the facts, MS name wont appear in the commercial, but the user is going to know that MS windows does have millons of viruses they can't get rid of....

[ubuntu_demon]

That is why I think that we shouldn't compare at all, just say the positive things we have, the users will realized that.

Is not same saying: Linux is virus free
than: Linux doesn't have virus and MS does have millons of them.

When comparing the name of MS is going to apear, if we just say the facts, MS name wont appear in the commercial, but the user is going to know that MS windows does have millons of viruses they can't get rid of....
I agree

on a side note .. I still I think the first commercial shouldn't be about features and usability .. but on getting the word "Ubuntu" known

[student]

But how do you compare it and be funny without being rude ?
very hard.
To give an example, I've learned using dotNet at school last year.
The dotNet framework makes life easy, and visual studio is VERY user friendly.
A linux die-hard will have trouble admitting this, I think.

[sonny]

A linux die-hard will have trouble admitting this, I think.
Good point, not every Linux users admit the flaws of the system, that would be an other why NOT comparing or attacking windows.

[jdunavin]

I don't think that such a commercial should attack Windows, for a variety of reasons.

1. It will reinforce what some cognoscenti see as the "nerd superiority complex" that many Linux/Unix users have. I have first-hand personal experience with this; I worked for a university computing outfit with a Novell/Windows LAN section and a Unix section. The Unix people would always make fun of us, call our student assistants stupid, and tell us that our software sucked, even though we had a bigger budget, more staff, more attention from administrators, and a nicer office. If you doubt that this complex exists, do a search of this board for "Microsoft", and see what's returned.

Windows users are operating from a position of comfort, and may be afraid to dump something they've known a long time, and won't appreciate it being implied that they are dumb.

2. Neither Ubuntu nor any other Linux distribution can go toe-to-toe with Microsoft in the advertising and PR realm, and they won't be able to for the distant future. Period.

It is possible to present Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows without attacking it specifically. It could be a short spot that, in the words of a previous poster, "gets the word 'Ubuntu' known", and simply says, "If you're looking for an alternative to MS Windows, look here," and then point to Ubuntu's greatest non-software asset: this forum. The positive tone of most of the posters of this forum are better testimonials than anything blow-dried actors could present.

[student]

ok, so why not show two family's where a 30 year old give's he's father a computer.
Son A give's father A windows Xp, and the father pay's the cost.
Son B give's father B ubuntu, at only the cost of the computer.

both fathers can email to their son, and can IM with them, and both can surf the net.

then show : "money doesnt matter, ubuntu care's about what the future brings..."

[sonny]

It is possible to present Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows without attacking it specifically. It could be a short spot that, in the words of a previous poster, "gets the word 'Ubuntu' known", and simply says, "If you're looking for an alternative to MS Windows, look here," and then point to Ubuntu's greatest non-software asset: this forum. The positive tone of most of the posters of this forum are better testimonials than anything blow-dried actors could present.
That's a good point I agree with you, MS has invested more moner in PR than Linux has invested in everything. And this commercial should bring up the very best of Ubuntu; and as you said, the community speaks for Ubuntu.

[desdinova]

very hard.
To give an example, I've learned using dotNet at school last year.
The dotNet framework makes life easy, and visual studio is VERY user friendly.
A linux die-hard will have trouble admitting this, I think.

Kdevelop, Gambas - there's plenty of UI based programming tools. Easy is not necessarily ease-of-use.

No one has yet mentioned freedom yet. With the possibility of DRM coming, it is possibile that a vendor can lock you out of your own documents. Freedom to use your PC in the ways you want.....

[student]

so just TELL THE TRUTH ?!
by showing only the upside's, people think that you are trying to fool them.
Why not give all the negative things about ubuntu that windows does better,
and then say "and still I use ubuntu" ?

Fact remains that "most" people dont even get to the level where ubuntu get's more complex then windows. They dont even want to go there. But they listen to others for advice, and those others tell them that what they can do in linux, is to hard for a new-one.

[Arthemys]

Take a look at:
http://www.novell.com/events/videos/

I know some of you probably don't like Novell, but from a third party stand point, watch a few and see what you think.

Novell's stance with MS is essentially them giving MS the middle finger publically.

[student]

why not let a linux user dress up like Santa Claus and give win Xp to his son ? :mrgreen:

[Kyral]

I just watched a couple of those Novell videos, and it struck me. Novell owns SuSE now, right? Then why don't they put some of their marketing stuff behind it? Right now Novell is just the kind of muscle the Linux community needs

And no, we don't want to attack XP. It WILL **** people off (I've gone on "Linux is holier than XP" rants before and nearly gotten punched in the face :P)

[zlogic]

A bit offtopic, but still:
today I've had to use a scanner attached to my family's PC powered by Windows XP Pro (I have Ubuntu on my own PC).
I haven't been using Windows for nearly half a year and I was amazed at how slow the thing was! It filled the harddrive with garbage (still it had 1.6 GB left) and IE istopped working at all so I had to install Firefox to just have some working browser. Because the harddrive was full it took a loooong time to automatically defragment it and do automatic cleanup. All these things slowed everything down instead of speeding up.
Well, maybe we could make something like the Gentoo's Larry The Cow poster:
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml
say: "Grandma didn't like using her computer. It was always telling her what to do and doing things she didn't understand or want. Evil malware was invading her PC. She used her computer only when she really couldn't do without it in fear of the unexplainable machine. Her grandson then installed Ubuntu because that was the thing he was used. Granny's PC suddenly became much frendlier. And she liked it."
No insults on Windows here, rather on the contrast between Ubuntu and not-humanity-towards-others things. And note that the grandson who installed Ubuntu didn't get sued for violating any laws. Rather, he has helped someone.
And replace Granny with some other characters - kids, teachers, artists etc - people who are often afraid of using computers because computers out there seem to be made for hackers and IT people, not human beings.

[student]

Grandma didn't like using her computer. It was always telling her what to do and doing things she didn't understand or want. Evil malware was invading her PC. She used her computer only when she really couldn't do without it in fear of the unexplainable machine. Her grandson then installed Ubuntu because that was the thing he was used. Granny's PC suddenly became much frendlier. And she liked it."
No insults on Windows here, rather on the contrast between Ubuntu and not-humanity-towards-others things. And note that the grandson who installed Ubuntu didn't get sued for violating any laws. Rather, he has helped someone.
And replace Granny with some other characters - kids, teachers, artists etc - people who are often afraid of using computers because computers out there seem to be made for hackers and IT people, not human beings.
WOW, I agree 100% with you on that (and that doesnt happen a lot nowadays :smile: )
But I can see the answer on that one. In short, what happens when granny enters something like "rm / -rf" ?

Maybe something like a "one-button"-emergency-button that writes a dvd-backup ??

[desdinova]

I just watched a couple of those Novell videos, and it struck me. Novell owns SuSE now, right? Then why don't they put some of their marketing stuff behind it? Right now Novell is just the kind of muscle the Linux community needs

And no, we don't want to attack XP. It WILL **** people off (I've gone on "Linux is holier than XP" rants before and nearly gotten punched in the face :P)

They are - Novell is betting the farm on Linux - Netware will basically sit on top of a Linux base - and Netware is BIG bucks, more bucks then any desktop.....

[poofyhairguy]

And replace Granny with some other characters - kids, teachers, artists etc - people who are often afraid of using computers because computers out there seem to be made for hackers and IT people, not human beings.

Home run.

[ubuntu_demon]

A bit offtopic, but still:
today I've had to use a scanner attached to my family's PC powered by Windows XP Pro (I have Ubuntu on my own PC).
I haven't been using Windows for nearly half a year and I was amazed at how slow the thing was! It filled the harddrive with garbage (still it had 1.6 GB left) and IE istopped working at all so I had to install Firefox to just have some working browser. Because the harddrive was full it took a loooong time to automatically defragment it and do automatic cleanup. All these things slowed everything down instead of speeding up.
Well, maybe we could make something like the Gentoo's Larry The Cow poster:
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml
say: "Grandma didn't like using her computer. It was always telling her what to do and doing things she didn't understand or want. Evil malware was invading her PC. She used her computer only when she really couldn't do without it in fear of the unexplainable machine. Her grandson then installed Ubuntu because that was the thing he was used. Granny's PC suddenly became much frendlier. And she liked it."
No insults on Windows here, rather on the contrast between Ubuntu and not-humanity-towards-others things. And note that the grandson who installed Ubuntu didn't get sued for violating any laws. Rather, he has helped someone.
And replace Granny with some other characters - kids, teachers, artists etc - people who are often afraid of using computers because computers out there seem to be made for hackers and IT people, not human beings.
nice idea
But we have to make if slick and funny in some way. Suggestions ?

[student]

we have to make if slick and funny in some way. Suggestions ?
euhm, a 90 year old granny that beats her pc with her stick, because the young pc talks back to her, and doesnt respect older people, seems funny enough to me, not ?

[ubuntu_demon]

euhm, a 90 year old granny that beats her pc with her stick, because the young pc talks back to her, and doesnt respect older people, seems funny enough to me, not ?
yeah it's quite nice :-D

although I still think the first commercial should be about spreading the word Ubuntu .. making people curious what the heck Ubuntu is :)

[sonny]

nice idea
But we have to make if slick and funny in some way. Suggestions ?
I think gramma can take a dish or a frying pan and then hit the monitor with it... that would be great. Now I think that would be comparing the two OS... wouldn't it?

[ubuntu_demon]

I think gramma can take a dish or a frying pan and then hit the monitor with it... that would be great. Now I think that would be comparing the two OS... wouldn't it?
yeah that's a bit of a problem.

It isn't very easy to figure out a nice idea for a commercial isn't it ? :) I really wish there were some experts around for this problem.

[student]

although I still think the first commercial should be about spreading the word Ubuntu .. making people curious what the heck Ubuntu is :)
maybe :

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but we all love it.
Ubuntu, humanity to others. Nothing more, nothing less...

[sonny]

maybe :

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but we all love it.
Ubuntu, humanity to others. Nothing more, nothing less...

Those are great, I like them... but first we have to decide IF we are going to make Windows attacks or not. Cuz that is the porpouse of this thread.

[student]

I dont think any "average" human :) can think of linux, without thinking of windows.
How do you explain what linux is ? I do by saying it's like windows, but different.
And after linux, you can explain what ubuntu is.

At least that's my humble experience...

[sonny]

I dont think any "average" human :) can think of linux, without thinking of windows.
How do you explain what linux is ? I do by saying it's like windows, but different.
And after linux, you can explain what ubuntu is.

At least that's my humble experience...
I guess that's a good point.

[ubuntu_demon]

I guess that's a good point.
true. That's why I think we just have to make people curious about the word Ubuntu.

but yeah this thread goes a bit offtopic :)

[Ride Jib]

Having not read everyone elses comments, I will simply say "childish."

I recently picked up Linux Magazine while take a flight across country. Expecting some good reading, I couldn't help but be put off by the qwips in every single article.

Seriously, there is so much GOOD about Ubuntu (and Linux in general) that you don't need to resort to "3rd grade name calling" tactics to appeal to new people.

A LOT of people are fed up with Windows, and want something different, but are too afraid to try. The commercial should, IMO, target these people and show Ubuntu isn't anything to be afraid of. I think it should especially display the LiveCD, and how they can "Try Before You Buy"..... (or not buy in this case) and not have to worry about "losing my files".

Cheers.

Also, after just reviewing some others responses, I would have to say.. pitch the product as "Ubuntu," not as "Linux." Many people are afraid of the word "Linux." Giving the impression of something completely "new and different" might be beneficial.

[ubuntu_demon]

Having not read everyone elses comments, I will simply say "childish."

I recently picked up Linux Magazine while take a flight across country. Expecting some good reading, I couldn't help but be put off by the qwips in every single article.

Seriously, there is so much GOOD about Ubuntu (and Linux in general) that you don't need to resort to "3rd grade name calling" tactics to appeal to new people.

A LOT of people are fed up with Windows, and want something different, but are too afraid to try. The commercial should, IMO, target these people and show Ubuntu isn't anything to be afraid of. I think it should especially display the LiveCD, and how they can "Try Before You Buy"..... (or not buy in this case) and not have to worry about "losing my files".

Cheers.

Also, after just reviewing some others responses, I would have to say.. pitch the product as "Ubuntu," not as "Linux." Many people are afraid of the word "Linux." Giving the impression of something completely "new and different" might be beneficial.
yeah we need to market this as Ubuntu instead of Linux.

The problem is we want a commercial that's slick and funny so it spreads the p2p networks fast. Most of the people don't want to attack windows but most average desktop users think windows is the only OS that can be run on a pc. (they don't think about it .. they don't even know what an OS is)

[sonny]

Average users don't want to know what's inside their pc... but if we attack windows we are attacking them... and they might get offended...

by the way... when can we say that the poll is concluded??? after 1 week???

[ubuntu_demon]

Average users don't want to know what's inside their pc... but if we attack windows we are attacking them... and they might get offended...

by the way... when can we say that the poll is concluded??? after 1 week???
wait until no votes and replies come in for 2 days ?

[TravisNewman]

ok no freakin' way should we "attack" windows, but pointing out that there are no viruses and spyware isn't really attacking.

There shouldn't be any humor unless it's smart and relevant. No orangutans drinking their own pee, if you get what I mean.

[davahmet]

As I see it, about 90% of computer users are intimidated by Windows and afraid of Linux (if they even know what it is.) Attacking Windows or Microsoft is not the answer. Attacking the FUD that is funded by Microsoft may help, but it could be difficult to do that while not attacking its source.

Instead of looking for conflict against the most successful marketing company in history, we should be sending a message of Ubuntu's advantages, such as freedom from malware, low cost, and the fact that it is made for humans.

I love the grandma idea, since it has a huge potential for getting the right message. Grandma can be entertaining while informative and non-offensive. Allow me a moment while I share this, going a bit off topic.

View of a very stressed out looking elderly lady staring at her computer monitor. Her hair is in disarry and she looks puzzled. Although we cannot see the monitor, we can hear the wild maniacal laughter from her speakers.

Shift to the most obnoxious computer-store technician you can imagine as he snidely tells Granny "Well. it's basically a variant of the laughing-hyena-B16 virus...blah, blah,blah (incomprehensible geekspeak). It's your own fault for getting punk'd. Gonna cost ya." Granny looks more stressed out.

View of Granny looking even worse. Hair sticking out in all directions and mouth agape as she stares at her monitor. Seventies-style porn music coming from her speakers as she clutches her heart.

Again the obnoxious technician tells her "You got a browser high-jacking from ...blah, blah blah (more made-up jargon). It's still your own fault, you know. Want me to fix it?" Granny looks completely frazzled at this point, hair sticking out and twitching in frustration.

Scene shows Granny's granddaughter, a pretty young lady (I said pretty, not some smoldering, over-sexxed Paris Hilton copycat) at Granny's computer, telling her "It's easy Grandma. It's free. It's safe. And it's made for everyone." Granny looks relaxed, smiling at her granddaughter as the scene shifts to show the Ubuntu desktop on the monitor.

At the closing scene, Granny's neighbor, a very stressed looking middle-aged businessman carrying a laptop as if it were a ticking time-bomb walks carefully by. Granny intercepts him, handing him a CD and for the first time speaks, saying only "Ubuntu" He looks down at the Ubuntu LiveCD and smiles with relief.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic from the question, but I've always hated that arguement that Linux won;t be ready for the desktop until so-and-so's 80-year old grandmother can use it. Well, the Grandma idea in the commercial basically answers that by saying "Yes, Ubuntu is ready."

[pdk001]

i dont know...

[ubuntu_demon]

As I see it, about 90% of computer users are intimidated by Windows and afraid of Linux (if they even know what it is.) Attacking Windows or Microsoft is not the answer. Attacking the FUD that is funded by Microsoft may help, but it could be difficult to do that while not attacking its source.

Instead of looking for conflict against the most successful marketing company in history, we should be sending a message of Ubuntu's advantages, such as freedom from malware, low cost, and the fact that it is made for humans.

I love the grandma idea, since it has a huge potential for getting the right message. Grandma can be entertaining while informative and non-offensive. Allow me a moment while I share this, going a bit off topic.

View of a very stressed out looking elderly lady staring at her computer monitor. Her hair is in disarry and she looks puzzled. Although we cannot see the monitor, we can hear the wild maniacal laughter from her speakers.

Shift to the most obnoxious computer-store technician you can imagine as he snidely tells Granny "Well. it's basically a variant of the laughing-hyena-B16 virus...blah, blah,blah (incomprehensible geekspeak). It's your own fault for getting punk'd. Gonna cost ya." Granny looks more stressed out.

View of Granny looking even worse. Hair sticking out in all directions and mouth agape as she stares at her monitor. Seventies-style porn music coming from her speakers as she clutches her heart.

Again the obnoxious technician tells her "You got a browser high-jacking from ...blah, blah blah (more made-up jargon). It's still your own fault, you know. Want me to fix it?" Granny looks completely frazzled at this point, hair sticking out and twitching in frustration.

Scene shows Granny's granddaughter, a pretty young lady (I said pretty, not some smoldering, over-sexxed Paris Hilton copycat) at Granny's computer, telling her "It's easy Grandma. It's free. It's safe. And it's made for everyone." Granny looks relaxed, smiling at her granddaughter as the scene shifts to show the Ubuntu desktop on the monitor.

At the closing scene, Granny's neighbor, a very stressed looking middle-aged businessman carrying a laptop as if it were a ticking time-bomb walks carefully by. Granny intercepts him, handing him a CD and for the first time speaks, saying only "Ubuntu" He looks down at the Ubuntu LiveCD and smiles with relief.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic from the question, but I've always hated that arguement that Linux won;t be ready for the desktop until so-and-so's 80-year old grandmother can use it. Well, the Grandma idea in the commercial basically answers that by saying "Yes, Ubuntu is ready."
very good!
we can use this :)

it's still a bit attacking windows ... but I think this is nice

[sonny]

As I see it, about 90% of computer users are intimidated by Windows and afraid of Linux (if they even know what it is.) Attacking Windows or Microsoft is not the answer. Attacking the FUD that is funded by Microsoft may help, but it could be difficult to do that while not attacking its source.

Instead of looking for conflict against the most successful marketing company in history, we should be sending a message of Ubuntu's advantages, such as freedom from malware, low cost, and the fact that it is made for humans.

I love the grandma idea, since it has a huge potential for getting the right message. Grandma can be entertaining while informative and non-offensive. Allow me a moment while I share this, going a bit off topic.

View of a very stressed out looking elderly lady staring at her computer monitor. Her hair is in disarry and she looks puzzled. Although we cannot see the monitor, we can hear the wild maniacal laughter from her speakers.

Shift to the most obnoxious computer-store technician you can imagine as he snidely tells Granny "Well. it's basically a variant of the laughing-hyena-B16 virus...blah, blah,blah (incomprehensible geekspeak). It's your own fault for getting punk'd. Gonna cost ya." Granny looks more stressed out.

View of Granny looking even worse. Hair sticking out in all directions and mouth agape as she stares at her monitor. Seventies-style porn music coming from her speakers as she clutches her heart.

Again the obnoxious technician tells her "You got a browser high-jacking from ...blah, blah blah (more made-up jargon). It's still your own fault, you know. Want me to fix it?" Granny looks completely frazzled at this point, hair sticking out and twitching in frustration.

Scene shows Granny's granddaughter, a pretty young lady (I said pretty, not some smoldering, over-sexxed Paris Hilton copycat) at Granny's computer, telling her "It's easy Grandma. It's free. It's safe. And it's made for everyone." Granny looks relaxed, smiling at her granddaughter as the scene shifts to show the Ubuntu desktop on the monitor.

At the closing scene, Granny's neighbor, a very stressed looking middle-aged businessman carrying a laptop as if it were a ticking time-bomb walks carefully by. Granny intercepts him, handing him a CD and for the first time speaks, saying only "Ubuntu" He looks down at the Ubuntu LiveCD and smiles with relief.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic from the question, but I've always hated that arguement that Linux won;t be ready for the desktop until so-and-so's 80-year old grandmother can use it. Well, the Grandma idea in the commercial basically answers that by saying "Yes, Ubuntu is ready."
I like it... it's great

[Optimal Aurora]

here some good advice... Show how good a product can be and why people should go over to it without putting down other products. Then leave the users of the product to show the world that it works and works well, about like how linux was started in the first place... Am I right? :grin:

[defkewl]

What do we get for doing this? What's in it for us?

[aragorn2909]

Here's a thought. You want slick? Universality? Avoid attacking MS? Get the "word" out? Think music. MS hit a home-run in 95 with the Stones, and there is no reason that something like that wouldn't work here.

[TravisNewman]

good call.

get all the musicians here to contribute something, and mix and match.

[allforcarrie]

I think it should.

[aragorn2909]

Or think even bigger. How about approaching one of more than a handful of politically aware artists/bands? U2, Bob Geldof, Rage Against the Machine? I mean really, the sky could be the limit here.

[Seti]

No, slinging mud at M$ is NOT what you want to do. Davahmet's 80 year-old granny idea is GOLD.
And "Live Aid" + Ubuntu is NOT what you want to do either.

[aragorn2909]

And "Live Aid" + Ubuntu is NOT what you want to do either.
I wasn't suggesting that at all, just merely a recognizable song, from a known artist, that doesn't cost $12 million to use.

The Geldof reference was more of a "Live 8" thought, however :wink:

[ubuntu_demon]

Or think even bigger. How about approaching one of more than a handful of politically aware artists/bands? U2, Bob Geldof, Rage Against the Machine? I mean really, the sky could be the limit here.
This is a very good idea. Also this way it might get air time if the song is gonna be a hit :)

[student]

And the best argument of "ubuntu", according to me, is that there is little overhead. This is still a bit attacking, but if everything is open, and free to use, there is no reason for having 2 of something. No reason for making something that already exists.

The granny can use it.
The gamer knows what mod's mean.
The musician knows what sampling means.
The politician knows what combining 2 region's means.
The programmer knows what OO means.
...

[jsimmons]

I have an idea...

Have agreen hill/blue sky setting (like the Windows XP default background), and have a bunch of sheep walking in a single direction in straight lines, possibly towards a window that sees to hang in space.

Have one of the sheep morph into a human being and deviates from the path the other sheep have taken. Music starts (the modernzed version of "Somewhere over the rainbow"). The camera zooms out a little to follow him as he walks towards an Ubuntu logo hanging in space. Camera pans around so that it can see what's happening behind this person, and you see a bunch of other sheep morphing into humans and walking in the same general direction as our hero.

And then, a soft female voice with a hint of seduction narrates "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings."

[ubuntu_demon]

I have an idea...

Have agreen hill/blue sky setting (like the Windows XP default background), and have a bunch of sheep walking in a single direction in straight lines, possibly towards a window that sees to hang in space.

Have one of the sheep morph into a human being and deviates from the path the other sheep have taken. Music starts (the modernzed version of "Somewhere over the rainbow"). The camera zooms out a little to follow him as he walks towards an Ubuntu logo hanging in space. Camera pans around so that it can see what's happening behind this person, and you see a bunch of other sheep morphing into humans and walking in the same general direction as our hero.

And then, a soft female voice with a hint of seduction narrates "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings."
cool idea :-D

[sonny]

I have an idea...

Have agreen hill/blue sky setting (like the Windows XP default background), and have a bunch of sheep walking in a single direction in straight lines, possibly towards a window that sees to hang in space.

Have one of the sheep morph into a human being and deviates from the path the other sheep have taken. Music starts (the modernzed version of "Somewhere over the rainbow"). The camera zooms out a little to follow him as he walks towards an Ubuntu logo hanging in space. Camera pans around so that it can see what's happening behind this person, and you see a bunch of other sheep morphing into humans and walking in the same general direction as our hero.

And then, a soft female voice with a hint of seduction narrates "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings."
I really like it... I also like the grandma idea, but there's no limit on doing only one... we can do as much as we want to...

[aragorn2909]

I have an idea...

Have agreen hill/blue sky setting (like the Windows XP default background), and have a bunch of sheep walking in a single direction in straight lines, possibly towards a window that sees to hang in space.

Have one of the sheep morph into a human being and deviates from the path the other sheep have taken. Music starts (the modernzed version of "Somewhere over the rainbow"). The camera zooms out a little to follow him as he walks towards an Ubuntu logo hanging in space. Camera pans around so that it can see what's happening behind this person, and you see a bunch of other sheep morphing into humans and walking in the same general direction as our hero.

And then, a soft female voice with a hint of seduction narrates "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings."


Humbly, I must disagree with the consensus that this is a good idea. From what I can gather, the target for this commercial will be Windows Users/people unaware of Ubuntu. Do we really want to refer to them as merely sheep following the herd? If I had seen something like that 3 months ago, I might very well have been offended, and dismissed it outright, never giving Ubuntu a second thought. It just really strikes me as yet another case of Linux elitism. Ubuntu is for Human Beings, not just those with a superiority complex.

[jsimmons]

How about this...

A bunch of monkeys in a large dingy room shackled to their desks, and using computers, quietly at first. Then the virus and spyware alert messages start showing up with an appropriately annoying audible one. At first the the monkeys complain through an occasional squawk or screech, with the crescendo growing to an ear-shattering symphony of the audible warning sounds emitted by Windows.

Three monkeys "escape" by discovering that their shackles aren't really keeping them there, and they wander into the hallway (as dark, dirty as their orignal room) with one covering his eyes, one his ears, and one his mouth. They notice a brightly lit doorway at he end of the hall and walk towards it.

The closer they get, the more human they look. They get to the door and are each met by a beautiful woman and guided work station with the Ubuntu logon screen. They log in (with user names like "see no evil", etc) and are greeted with the Ubuntu login sound, and they being working.

They eventually noticed that they are now fully human. The scene fades to an Ubunto logo on a black background (as it fades, the Ubuntu startup sound plays in the background), and a soft female voice with ahint of sedcutiveness says "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings."

[jsimmons]

Humbly, I must disagree with the consensus that this is a good idea. From what I can gather, the target for this commercial will be Windows Users/people unaware of Ubuntu. Do we really want to refer to them as merely sheep following the herd? If I had seen something like that 3 months ago, I might very well have been offended, and dismissed it outright, never giving Ubuntu a second thought. It just really strikes me as yet another case of Linux elitism. Ubuntu is for Human Beings, not just those with a superiority complex.

All it shows is that for those wiling to strike out on their own, there is now an acceptable alternative.

You're probably not gonna like my monkey idea either. LOL

[jsimmons]

Here's another one...

A room full of people standing in line in front of a curtained booth to get their favorite Linux distro. As they enter, a voice says "Enter your favorite operating system at this time."

They type something in a keyboard (we don't know what), and enter the booth. a sound (like a moderately substantial "poof") and maybe a shot of steam is heard, and a puff of smoke rises from the booth.

An animal comes out of the other side of the booth. The animal is different for each person, and each animal has a black plastic bag containing it's OS of choice. We see tis happen four or five times before our hero comes up for his turn.

Our hero types in "Ubuntu" (we can see this), he enters the booth, and nothing happens. He merely comes out with a white plastic bag with the "Ubuntu" logo on it.

As he walks away, the next person has selected and walked into the booth, and is transformed into an animal that is clearly too big for the booth (an elephant).

The screen fades to black with the Ubuntu logo and a soft female voice with a hint of seduction says "Ubuntu". At this point the elephant makes a standard elephant trumpeting sound (this might shake the word "Ubuntu" eventually having the last "U" tilt a little, and the female voice continues, "Linux for human bengs."

[student]

All it shows is that for those wiling to strike out on their own, there is now an acceptable alternative.
why not say exactly that ?
ubuntu, a free alternative, made by friendly and reachable people, to the expensive ruler of the software world, windows :-P

[sonny]

How about this...

A bunch of monkeys in a large dingy room shackled to their desks, and using computers, quietly at first. Then the virus and spyware alert messages start showing up with an appropriately annoying audible one. At first the the monkeys complain through an occasional squawk or screech, with the crescendo growing to an ear-shattering symphony of the audible warning sounds emitted by Windows.

Three monkeys "escape" by discovering that their shackles aren't really keeping them there, and they wander into the hallway (as dark, dirty as their orignal room) with one covering his eyes, one his ears, and one his mouth. They notice a brightly lit doorway at he end of the hall and walk towards it.

The closer they get, the more human they look. They get to the door and are each met by a beautiful woman and guided work station with the Ubuntu logon screen. They log in (with user names like "see no evil", etc) and are greeted with the Ubuntu login sound, and they being working.

They eventually noticed that they are now fully human. The scene fades to an Ubunto logo on a black background (as it fades, the Ubuntu startup sound plays in the background), and a soft female voice with ahint of sedcutiveness says "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings."

Wow.. you have good ideas... only that in the end it can say something about evolution, like: "Evolve... Ubuntu, Linux for Human beings"

[jsimmons]

why not say exactly that ?
ubuntu, a free alternative, made by friendly and reachable people, to the expensive ruler of the software world, windows :-P

Because it's boring to "just say that". You want the peole to REMEMBER the commercial (even if they don't like it, they'll remember the company).

[aragorn2909]

All it shows is that for those wiling to strike out on their own, there is now an acceptable alternative.

You're probably not gonna like my monkey idea either. LOL

I would have rather been called a monkey than a sheep :) , but the question was asked "should the Ubuntu commercial attack windows" and the response seems to be "no, but lets attack windows users instead" Personally, I might have continued using XP, or gone to FC, or Mandriva, or whatever, if I had seen commercials attacking me as a Windows user.

[sonny]

Well jsimmons, you have great ideas... you should better post your ideas in the other thread http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41771

[student]

Personally, I might have continued using XP, or gone to FC, or Mandriva, or whatever, if I had seen commercials attacking me as a Windows user.
yep, i totally agree. I myself was pulled in by the free shipping.
Like almost every filosopher said, the human mind will always defend his current position.

[jsimmons]

Well jsimmons, you have great ideas... you should better post your ideas in the other thread http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41771

Thanks, and done. :)

[sonny]

I Personally, I might have continued using XP, or gone to FC, or Mandriva, or whatever, if I had seen commercials attacking me as a Windows user.
Well this is when I disagree, if I've seen something like that, I would've try it, cuz it would've made me thinking... you know... would like to be the fisrt human taking the other road... eventhough I'm against attacking winbugs, i don't tink this would be attacking... wouldn't it???

[aragorn2909]

Well this is when I disagree, if I've seen something like that, I would've try it, cuz it would've made me thinking... you know... would like to be the fisrt human taking the other road... eventhough I'm against attacking winbugs, i don't tink this would be attacking... wouldn't it???
No, this isn't attacking Windows, its attacking its users, which reinforces the stereotype of Elitist Linux Geeks preaching down to the non-belivers in an attempt at coverting them. My opinion, this sort of tactic will never work.

[sonny]

No, this isn't attacking Windows, its attacking its users, which reinforces the stereotype of Elitist Linux Geeks preaching down to the non-belivers in an attempt at coverting them. My opinion, this sort of tactic will never work.
I understand what you say... and I agree to some level... that's the problem with this... the line betwen comparing and attacking is really thin... in this case some people will get offended some others don't, but we can't afford losing some part of the market.... I think that the poll has done it's job...I'm sure that the porcentages won't change anymore.... we still have to wait for demon666_nl call to shut it down... and then we have to disscuss (in this same thread I suppose) what is and what isn't attacking windows.

[aragorn2909]

I understand what you say... and I agree to some level... that's the problem with this... the line betwen comparing and attacking is really thin... in this case some people will get offended some others don't, but we can't afford losing some part of the market.... I think that the poll has done it's job...I'm sure that the porcentages won't change anymore.... we still have to wait for demon666_nl call to shut it down... and then we have to disscuss (in this same thread I suppose) what is and what isn't attacking windows.
I think Sonny, that you and I should continue our discussion in the other thread. As a matter of fact, I think that seeing as attacking windows seems to be a non-issue for most, that we should all take our discussion to the other thread.

[student]

My opinion is that "not attacking" is NONSENCE!
It's impossible to talk about "ubuntu" without talking about windows. Same as it's impossible to talk about ubuntu without thinking of Linux.

The only solution is not mensioning the word Microsoft. But saying this isn't attacking that word, is LIEING! And that's just THE POINT.

[sonny]

My opinion is that "not attacking" is NONSENCE!
It's impossible to talk about "ubuntu" without talking about windows. Same as it's impossible to talk about ubuntu without thinking of Linux.

The only solution is not mensioning the word Microsoft. But saying this isn't attacking that word, is LIEING! And that's just THE POINT.
I think that would be a "solution" not mentioning the word MICROSFT, cuz average people just know that word and nothing else... it's like presenting one blue can and one red ¿wich one is Coke and wich one is Pepsi?... it'll be pretty much the same, for the average user if we present them a PC they will automatically think that pc is running Windows, unless we say otherwise. Right?

[student]

I think that would be a "solution" not mentioning the word MICROSFT, cuz average people just know that word and nothing else... it's like presenting one blue can and one red ¿wich one is Coke and wich one is Pepsi?... it'll be pretty much the same, for the average user if we present them a PC they will automatically think that pc is running Windows, unless we say otherwise. Right?
If you ask my REAL opinion, about the whole world ?
Utopia: knowlegde should be open and free
Reality: Linux, at least it's fair.

[desdinova]

My opinion is that "not attacking" is NONSENCE!
It's impossible to talk about "ubuntu" without talking about windows. Same as it's impossible to talk about ubuntu without thinking of Linux.

The only solution is not mensioning the word Microsoft. But saying this isn't attacking that word, is LIEING! And that's just THE POINT.

And if the only way you can define something is by what it is not, then you have nothing. Attacking MS indirectly attacks the people who use their OS'es, and good advertising doesn't involves offending the people you're trying to reach.

[student]

And if the only way you can define something is by what it is not, then you have nothing. Attacking MS indirectly attacks the people who use their OS'es, and good advertising doesn't involves offending the people you're trying to reach.
I dont get this ?
The world knows windows as "the one". Every owner of a computer knows what windows is, and avery human in the world knows what ms is. My 93 year old grandma asked me once 'why cant you invent something like microsoft?" and she also said once "you are fooling me. how can you do school-work on your machine at home, if it's at home?".

If you say "ubuntu will make your computer do things", the first think they will think is "is ubuntu made by bill gates ?"

[aragorn2909]

And if the only way you can define something is by what it is not, then you have nothing. Attacking MS indirectly attacks the people who use their OS'es, and good advertising doesn't involves offending the people you're trying to reach.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I always knew there was wisdom in the Welsh :wink:

[desdinova]

Aragorn, you flatterer. Diolch yn fawr iawn...!

Student... Even being mildly offensive/attacking to MS reinforces the inferiority complex syndrome that seemingly affects some Linux users. Apple's INCREDIBLY successful 1984 advert didn't need to mention anyone else but Apple.......

And not everyone in the world knows who MS is. Many people just use their computer without knowing, or even caring, what it runs - as long as they can browse the web, read their email.....

[desdinova]

In fact another example has just struck me

Any UK users out there remember the Tango adverts - "You know, when you've been Tangoe'd" will know that the advert was completely off -field, completely didn't even mention that Tango was a soft drink yet gripped the nation and made it a catchphrase.....

A good advert makes the product a buzzword, and often keeps the spirit of mystery that makes people want to find out.

[student]

Even being mildly offensive/attacking to MS reinforces the inferiority complex syndrome that seemingly affects some Linux users.
dude, the point I'm trying to make is, it's IMPOSSIBLE to "not attack" it. There isn't a single person on the planet that wount see it as an attack on it. MS makes sure that you know what ms (msn) stands for.

[papangul]

I voted for "no" because I don't want Ubuntu commercials serve the MAC marketing department.

[desdinova]

dude, the point I'm trying to make is, it's IMPOSSIBLE to "not attack" it. There isn't a single person on the planet that wount see it as an attack on it. MS makes sure that you know what ms (msn) stands for.

And thats where we disagree. Ask Linus why he develops Linux. Its because it scratches his itch. People are looking for an alternative and if you can show yourself to be a viable, stable and usable alternative people will flock to you without even having to even mention MS.

[aragorn2909]

Aragorn, you flatterer. Diolch yn fawr iawn...!

Student... Even being mildly offensive/attacking to MS reinforces the inferiority complex syndrome that seemingly affects some Linux users. Apple's INCREDIBLY successful 1984 advert didn't need to mention anyone else but Apple.......

And not everyone in the world knows who MS is. Many people just use their computer without knowing, or even caring, what it runs - as long as they can browse the web, read their email.....

By the same token Microsoft's INCREDIBLY successful 1995 ad campaign didn't mention anything but a freaking "Start" button!

forgive me, my Welsh is REALLY rusty, or should I say, non-existant, what does that say?

[student]

People are looking for an alternative
I rest my case...

[sonny]

A good advert makes the product a buzzword, and often keeps the spirit of mystery that makes people want to find out.
I said something like this before... a commercial where it doesn't show you the desktop, nor user, nor MS... only ubuntu, maybe a PC, but that'll be all... then finishing with the ubuntu logo and the ubuntu slogan. Of course there's gotta be a good artist to this, and put it some mistery and good effects.

[desdinova]

Aragorn: it means "thank you very much"

Student: Watch the successful adverts on tv these days - none of them need to denigrate the opposition. I've never seen a Ford advert call GM/Vauxhall cars over, or mention their flaws.

You sell your product on its strengths, not on your oppositions weakness,

[aragorn2909]

And thats where we disagree. Ask Linus why he develops Linux. Its because it scratches his itch. People are looking for an alternative and if you can show yourself to be a viable, stable and usable alternative people will flock to you without even having to even mention MS.

Exactly. How many people have already flocked to Ubuntu? Without a single advertisement demonizing MS. Last count on this forum: 25,389 members, all who know what Windows is. Lets give the general public a little more credit than what is being offered here.

[student]

Aragorn: it means "thank you very much"

Student: Watch the successful adverts on tv these days - none of them need to denigrate the opposition. I've never seen a Ford advert call GM/Vauxhall cars over, or mention their flaws.

You sell your product on its strengths, not on your oppositions weakness,
I think we are discussing the definition of the word "attacking".
Like I posted somewhere above "the human mind will always defend it's position"

[desdinova]

The truth is, why should Ubuntu even mention WIndows? There is a PPC port, so perhaps we should attack OS X as well? Or OS/2?

At the end of the day, people don't care about MS/Linux etc - as I said, they just want a machine that works. Why even pander to an advert that will only be torn apart as attacking. Don't even MENTION Windows. Talk about stability. How about even mentioning that every time you use Google you're using Linux? (for example!)

[desdinova]

Theres been a few MS adverts on British TV - they mention recording your own music, or controlling a telescope. They talk about what THEIR product can do for you.

[student]

The truth is, why should Ubuntu even mention WIndows? There is a PPC port, so perhaps we should attack OS X as well? Or OS/2?

At the end of the day, people don't care about MS/Linux etc - as I said, they just want a machine that works. Why even pander to an advert that will only be torn apart as attacking. Don't even MENTION Windows. Talk about stability. How about even mentioning that every time you use Google you're using Linux? (for example!)
This might seem lame, but I'm gonna stop posting here.
All I want to say is, you HAVE TO think about how it will attack windows. It's impossible for people NOT to compare it to ms.

[sonny]

Well... then I launch a question... what would be considere as "attacking"??

[aragorn2909]

This might seem lame, but I'm gonna stop posting here.
All I want to say is, you HAVE TO think about how it will attack windows. It's impossible for people NOT to compare it to ms.
Dont stop posting, this type of thread here epitomizes what (I hope) our community is all about. Open dialog from differing viewpoints. Democracy in a word. I for one appreciate and respect your input.

[student]

Dont stop posting, this type of thread here epitomizes what (I hope) our community is all about. Open dialog from differing viewpoints. Democracy in a word. I for one appreciate and respect your input.
I know, and I'm not "attacking" you, or the community!
I just think I have given all I can about this topic...

[jsimmons]

Well... then I launch a question... what would be considere as "attacking"??

I think it's obvious that it depends solely on who you're talking to. Let's use my first commercial idea as an example...

In *my* opinion, Windows users are like sheep. They go along with whatever MS says because "everyone else does". Is that necessarily their fault? No. Why? Because many computer users today were'n't even born until Windows had already hit the streets, and Windows is the only thing they've ever known. So you see, I see the reference as a metaphor, not an attack on either MS or Windows users. Besides, it provides a frame of reference for the real message.

[desdinova]

Dont stop posting, this type of thread here epitomizes what (I hope) our community is all about. Open dialog from differing viewpoints. Democracy in a word. I for one appreciate and respect your input.

Agreed - as they say, there are three sides to every story - Mine, yours and the truth ... ;-) Good debate like this helps find a common ground

[student]

I think it's obvious that it depends solely on who you're talking to. Let's use my first commercial idea as an example...

In *my* opinion, Windows users are like sheep. They go along with whatever MS says because "everyone else does". Is that necessarily their fault? No. Why? Because many computer users today were'n't even born until Windows had already hit the streets, and Windows is the only thing they've ever known. So you see, I see the reference as a metaphor, not an attack on either MS or Windows users. Besides, it provides a frame of reference for the real message.
And this I what I BELIEVE !
You cant be angry at someone for something they dont know.
Everyone start's as a "newbie". And that's what ubuntu stands for, in my opinion.

[aragorn2909]

I know, and I'm not "attacking" you, or the community!
I just think I have given all I can about this topic...

Never felt you were attacking me or the community, no explanation required. Besides, I'm Canadian, we have pretty thick skin. :-P

[aragorn2909]

I think it's obvious that it depends solely on who you're talking to. Let's use my first commercial idea as an example...

In *my* opinion, Windows users are like sheep. They go along with whatever MS says because "everyone else does". Is that necessarily their fault? No. Why? Because many computer users today were'n't even born until Windows had already hit the streets, and Windows is the only thing they've ever known. So you see, I see the reference as a metaphor, not an attack on either MS or Windows users. Besides, it provides a frame of reference for the real message.

I sort of agree with you here, but, the imagery your conjuring is, imho, derogatory. Let me explain. I'm a full grown man. A Husband. A Father. Gainfully employed. I like to think that I am the master of my own destiny, that I am in control of my life. As recently as 2 months ago, I was a dedicated MS user. From my Epson 086 running MS-Dos 3.whatever in 1980-whatever to XP Pro SP2. As master of my own destiny (as I would like to think), being referred to as a sheep merely following the herd is insulting. If that attitude greeted me when I d/l Ubuntu, or when I registered at this forum, I would still be that dedicated Windows user, for no other reason than to spite the people who thought I was a sheep.

[sonny]

I think that in ordor to not attack MS, we shouldn't mention the name in the commercial... just that, just the name... if we don't say the word MS we are not attacking them, at least not directly. We also shouldn't show ANY user in a degrading position, activity, or situation.

[jsimmons]

I sort of agree with you here, but, the imagery your conjuring is, imho, derogatory. Let me explain. I'm a full grown man. A Husband. A Father. Gainfully employed. I like to think that I am the master of my own destiny, that I am in control of my life. As recently as 2 months ago, I was a dedicated MS user. From my Epson 086 running MS-Dos 3.whatever in 1980-whatever to XP Pro SP2. As master of my own destiny (as I would like to think), being referred to as a sheep merely following the herd is insulting. If that attitude greeted me when I d/l Ubuntu, or when I registered at this forum, I would still be that dedicated Windows user, for no other reason than to spite the people who thought I was a sheep.


But see, you're NOT the sheep in the commercial. You're the hero. :)

[student]

But see, you're NOT the sheep in the commercial. You're the hero. :)

You cant be angry at someone for something they dont know.
Everyone start's as a "newbie". And that's what ubuntu stands for, in my opinion.
jsimmons's post is the result of what I mean, and what I think is (and should be) the ubuntu motto...

[aragorn2909]

But see, you're NOT the sheep in the commercial. You're the hero. :)
lol, try telling my Wife that! She cant stand that I took away her comfortable windows! Seriously, though, this just demonstrates the trickiness of advertising. Never knowing whether the message you want to send will actually be understood by your target as you intend, or whether they will misinterpret it, like I did.

[student]

Never knowing whether the message you want to send will actually be understood by your target as you intend, or whether they will misinterpret it, like I did.
euhm, this is what I call life :grin:

[aragorn2909]

euhm, this is what I call life :grin:
Life, maybe, but can a commercial about Ubuntu that intends to "spread the word" really afford to be misinterpreted? Either way, the image of sheep, whether it portrays me as a sheep or hero, still, attacks MS, which I am against, on a public level. On a personal level, between you, I and the 20K+ members of this forum, I love it.

[student]

afford to be misinterpreted?
Euhm, isn't the group you are targeting (granny and so) aware of this fact ?

[aragorn2909]

Aware of what fact? That they are sheep? I don't think I'm following you here.

[student]

Aware of what fact? That they are sheep?
the fact that there is nothing wrong with beeing a sheep.
There's only the fact of beeing able to admid who you are...

[desdinova]

A lot of people will find that offensive, and arrogant. No one likes to think they're wrong. It also comes acrross as elitist too

[student]

A lot of people will find that offensive, and arrogant. No one likes to think they're wrong. It also comes acrross as elitist too
I disagree,
at first maybe, but everyone knows that they can be a sheep. And none want to be one.

[aragorn2909]

imo, it still comes across as derogatory. Call someone a sheep, and they will instantly go on the defensive. Good luck trying to sell them anything at that point. In this day and age, its much more than just building the better mouse trap, you had better know how to market it properly if you want the world to beat a path to your door.

[student]

if you want the world to beat a path to your door.
it's not about a path to your door, it's about a CHOISE.
And isn't an alternative a choise ?

[desdinova]

But if the choice involves belittling people (calling someone a sheep is belittling however you look at it), then it ceases to be a choice.

Abusive marketing doesn't work - you want people to see your products strengths, not lecture from a position of (supposed) intellectual superiority. It comes across as nerdish, geeky.

We MAY think Linux is superior, but not everyone else does. There's FreeBSD< OpenBSD, NetBSD, Beos, Syllable... the list foes on. Rather then calling people sheep for using Windows (which is a strange way to market it), talk about security, stability etc.

Why rely on any negative imagery, when we have so many positive's to draw from?

[aragorn2909]

it's not about a path to your door, it's about a CHOISE.
And isn't an alternative a choise ?

I disagree. We are (now) talking about marketing to people who wouldn't otherwise even give Ubuntu a second thought. To what ends? In order to lure them away from thier current os of choice, to OUR os of choice. For what reason? Merely to offer them a choice? I don't think so. The reasoning behind the decision to actively market Ubuntu, I have to assume, is that it is believed that this product can begin to really compete in a market owned by Microsoft. Is anyone really happy just being an "alternative"?

[student]

security, stability etc.
I dont give a **** about stability! stability is for google :razz:
All I care about is money, and "am I able to use it?"

And isnt shocking people the best way to be remembered ?

[desdinova]

You don't care about stability ? Well most people do, tell you what.....

Let me install a random switch on your machine that anyone on the net can use, and when it is pushed your machine reboots.

See then if you care about stability. ;-)

Shocking people isn't the best way to be remembered. The best way is helping people.

[aragorn2909]

Let me install a random switch on your machine that anyone on the net can use, and when it is pushed your machine reboots.


Isn't this feature included in Longhorn?

[desdinova]

It's called Remote Admin ;-)

[student]

Let me install a random switch on your machine that anyone on the net can use, and when it is pushed your machine reboots.
dude, if you give me the power to format, and reinstall, I DONT CARE...

[desdinova]

dude, if you give me the power to format, and reinstall, I DONT CARE...

And yet halfway through a reinstall, someone pushes the switch......?

Stability is one of the major concerns of some users.

[student]

Stability is one of the major concerns of some users.
In my country (Belgium) you can chose between two ISP's
ADSL => internet through USB, anything but stable, but cheap
TELENET -> internet thought cable, stable, double the datarate, but at double the cost of adsl.

guess what ? Adsl is what most's people buy....

[desdinova]

And the point is with Linux one can push the fact it is stable and cheap - the best of both worlds.

People don't WANT to have to continually reinstall, install more and more complex ad blockers and anti-spyware tools.

[aragorn2909]

In my country (Belgium) you can chose between two ISP's
ADSL => internet through USB, anything but stable, but cheap
TELENET -> internet thought cable, stable, double the datarate, but at double the cost of adsl.

guess what ? Adsl is what most's people buy....

Do the ads for adsl belittle Telenet users?

[student]

People don't WANT to have to continually reinstall, install more and more complex ad blockers and anti-spyware tools.
People want cheap and safe data. They dont give a **** about stability.
And about security, they all say "I have nothing to hide/use".

Only expensive server's care about stability...

(btw, I do care about stability, security, .... )

[vega44]

People want cheap and safe data. They dont give a **** about stability.
And about security, they all say "I have nothing to hide/use".

Only expensive server's care about stability...

(btw, I do care about stability, security, .... )
me too (:

[desdinova]

People want cheap and safe data. They dont give a **** about stability.
And about security, they all say "I have nothing to hide/use".

Only expensive server's care about stability...

(btw, I do care about stability, security, .... )

Really

So you think people would be happy with a machine that crashes all the time?

That really is a pretty silly statement. Go to any windows boards and hear how people really hate random crashes.

[aragorn2909]

Really

So you think people would be happy with a machine that crashes all the time?

That really is a pretty silly statement.

Not happy at all, however, have never known anything better. Remember "multitasking" in Windows 3.1? Or the blue screen of death in '95 and '98. Start me up? Forget it.

[desdinova]

Not happy at all, however, have never known anything better. Remember "multitasking" in Windows 3.1? Or the blue screen of death in '95 and '98. Start me up? Forget it.

And the fun of installing the tcp/ip stack on wfwg? shudder ;-)

[student]

So you think people would be happy with a machine that crashes all the time?.
No, but they are happy with a cheap, useable machine that crashes. Stability is a bonus. They come for cheap, and stay for stability...

[aragorn2909]

They come for cheap, and stay for stability...

Now there's a slogan! :wink:

[sonny]

I think we're a LITTLE off topic now...

[aragorn2909]

I think we're a LITTLE off topic now...

Agreed. Its funny how easy it was to get here though.

[ubuntu_demon]

In fact another example has just struck me

Any UK users out there remember the Tango adverts - "You know, when you've been Tangoe'd" will know that the advert was completely off -field, completely didn't even mention that Tango was a soft drink yet gripped the nation and made it a catchphrase.....

A good advert makes the product a buzzword, and often keeps the spirit of mystery that makes people want to find out.
true. Let's create an Ubuntu buzz

[ubuntu_demon]

imo, it still comes across as derogatory. Call someone a sheep, and they will instantly go on the defensive. Good luck trying to sell them anything at that point. In this day and age, its much more than just building the better mouse trap, you had better know how to market it properly if you want the world to beat a path to your door.
agreed. We really need to think about thing like :

-what message do we want to send
-how do we want to spread this ?
-how will the result be interpreted ?

But this is not the thread to do this. I think I'm gonna close this thread as soon as there are no more votes for a day or something like that.

[gray-squirrel]

For now, I'm casting my vote in the "other" category.

To go at Microsoft right now, when the reputation of Ubuntu has not been established is more likely to give a negative first impression.

Even if it were appropriate to actually "attack" Windows, there would have to be subtle humor, with emphasis on features Ubuntu has or tasks that Ubuntu does well on. Something which will not turn people off.

I was once turned off by anti-Windows (and anti-Intel during the days of the discovered Pentium bug) pitches a few years ago because the attacks were quite blatant. And these were pitches that I came across on the Internet; no television or radio commerical from Apple or IBM that I saw did similar things.

[Omnios]

I don't think bashing would be good we are Linux users we tend to think its funny but other future Linux users might not or not be impressed, Now as to sticking to the facts like No spyware, No virus problem, rare crashes, etc etc might go a long way, most people don't have to be told about the spyware, virus and crash problems they just wan't to hear that Ubuntu does't have that proplem.

Arrg I want to vote for bash...... lol

[Freddy]

LoL, I also would wan't to vote for a smackdown on Windows to but I really don't think thats such a good idea, I have already tried that approch when I have tried to advocate for Linux amongst my friends, often do no good, some gets offended others just tired of hearing it again and again :).

I also don't think it's a good idea to tell how "easy" our choice of distro is, cause for a windows user with no previous experience with linux, it really isn't that easy. Think of all that just works "out of box" with Windows. I'ts maybe easy piecey for us to modifiy the aptget conffile to get what we need but do you really think is that easy for a windows user, I think not.

Instead I think we should make this commercial about our community, the friendly side of Linux and our community, that we are willing to to help with all the change of OS.
Stability, no viruses/spyware is a another approch, we have to inspire our "to be" users that they are (revolutionars:)) and that they are going to be part of something great (which they are)

/Freddan

[SomeGayDude]

It's not a good idea to attack anyone. I can easily give the impression that you are the bad guy. But doing it is a way to be informative is not really that bad. I would hate for Micro$oft to start crying slander.

[xequence]

Post an mpeg on all bittorent sites, but have "windows" somewhere in the title. (Sort of like "Ubuntu Linux Commerical: Better then windows" or something :P) People will see it while searching for pirated versions of windows and download it.

As for the commercial, dont attack windows directly... But mention it has no viruses and is extremly stable, all the bad things about windows, tell how ubuntu doesent have those bad things :P

[Jordan Meeter]

I think it would be kinda funny, as long as it were done with taste. e.g. how Fuse bashes MTV.

[npaladin2000]

Attack commercials are a dumb idea and usually don't go over well. They present the appearence of petty-ness for one thing, and they also give the idea that the only way you can manage to sell your product is to downgrade the other guy (Buy me because he sucks!). Commercials sould sell YOUR product, not keep you from buying the other guy's product. The two are not necessarily the same thing, which is why attach commericals usually aren't effective (now if only politicians would learn this simple lesson...I learned it in Marketing 101). After all, if his product sucks, but we don't know anything good about your product either, maybe we should just go buy a Mac.

By promoting Ubuntu's features and advantages, at the same time Windows's shortcomings would become clear on their own, if the commercial is properly designed. It doesn't appear petty, it DOES sell your product on it's virtues, and it presents a positive image rather than a negative one.

[ubuntu_demon]

we already agreed not to attack windows. The thread is still open because I like openness.

[mike998]

Ubuntu is not a windows killer. I don't think any distro is just yet (not even linspire).
We don't need to be - it's not about killing the evil Windows and taking over the world, for me it's about running something a little different that makes me think a little more.
For my girlfriend it's about running something she doesn't have to worry about in the respect of viruses/spyware etc and she can have fun with!

[codejunkie]

Ubuntu is not a windows killer. I don't think any distro is just yet (not even linspire).
We don't need to be - it's not about killing the evil Windows and taking over the world, for me it's about running something a little different that makes me think a little more.
For my girlfriend it's about running something she doesn't have to worry about in the respect of viruses/spyware etc and she can have fun with!

not even linspire doah!

Just joking don't hate me for that one i couldn't resist, but i agree with you on one thing linspire could never kill windows it can't even compare to ubuntu a 100% free 100% FOSS distro. one would think that it being a paid distro it would be easier to use and rock solid stable and the eyecandy of osx by the way they market it, but it's not and i just couldn't stand that naging click and run and all the popups for buying things through click and run i guess it has it's uses as a starter distro, but if any distro could compete with microsoft my vote's on Ubuntu or OpenSuse/only because ubuntu hasn't included gui based configuration tools and a gui installer yet but for a distro that's not even released it's third version yet it has the best potential to take out microsoft if they don't do it themself with vista.

[macgyver2]

Ubuntu is not a windows killer. I don't think any distro is just yet (not even linspire).
I just pictured myself loading distrowatch one day in the near future to find a new distro named "Windows Killer". :)

[weasel fierce]

I generally try not to buy products, that attack other products as part of their advertisement. It seems to be an odd american approach to advertisement that I find unappealing. (nothing against our american brethren, I love you all, but you guys are crazy :) )

[bob_c_b]

First rule of marketing is not to give your competitor any free advertising by mentioning their name in your press.

Second, attacking MS directly might lead to retaliation from their tower full of lawyers. While I am sure it is a storm that can be weathered it will be a distraction that Linux and Ubuntu don't need. MS is awesome at marketing FUD as fact and many people have a notion that MS is a decent company, often siting how big they are as a sign of how "good" they must be.

Talk about what makes Ubuntu great, not what makes other stuff suck.

[macgyver2]

I generally try not to buy products, that attack other products as part of their advertisement.
Same here. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority over here. It must be an effective strategy or else companies wouldn't do it.

[phen]

Same here. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority over here. It must be an effective strategy or else companies wouldn't do it.
Should ubuntu commercial attack windows? - no!

imho, the strenghts of the product shall be shown, not the weak sides of its competitors

btw, not long ago, it was forbidden over here to critizise other companies/products in ads... Now they sometimes do it, but i don't like it, too. it is kind of to easy

[Efwis]

definately not.

If you stoop so low to attack MS/Windows then you start playing on their terms. anyone seen the latest rash of MS/Windows commercials?

They are pushing how things are great by using products designed for Windows. I was just at a customers house yesterday trying to get some software to work that was supposed to be for windowsXP on a WindowsXP machine, guess what. it didnt' work.

I say we let them do their dirty fighting, we are better then that. :)

[lucid]

I don't think Ubuntu should be illuminated with any light that comes through Windows. Ubuntu is brilliant enough on its own terms, and on those terms it should be marketed.

[jimcooncat]

I'm hoping by the time we have a couple more releases, it would be beneath us to compare Ubuntu with Windows. We are only just getting started -- no sense worrying about the car on side of us when we won't even be able to see it in the rear view mirror soon. I don't see our goal as merely surpassing the "Windows experience", we're making Linux for Human Beings.

[airtonix]

Desdinova :
Are you amiable to the suggestion that a perfect circle style guitar riff would do the classy thing of promoting Philanthropy? ragged trouser style....

go the jack london..big time

[airtonix]

nope, dont even mention them....

that would be free advertising...and like peopl are saying: trying to sell your product by baggin others is really stupid. will only get a profit tfor that week only!!! if that.


Personally I would do the same kind of thing microsoft does....sell hope.
and associate percieved freedom of social life with indiffrenet use of a computer...that is almost like having an obedient HAL9000.

ms adverts affect the noms because they are not promoting the geek aspect. rather they are typing in a tradition with a new concept....typical fabian techniques.....because many people are resistant to rapid change but not gradual change....reason: they believe it isn't changing or that they are in control of the change.,lol

Oh and heving someone on the bilderberg groups would do wonders for linux, but then again ....theat would mean biggus wiggus thwill stwep in. Thwou him down cwenturiwon! ;)

oh yeah think perfume = hope...think windows = hope....but remember this:
scarcity = dependancy = control
abundancy = choice = freedom

and think how linux or windows or mac or any other system fits in this paradigm.

[AndyCooll]

I voted "don't know" without actually reading the thread first. The more I think about it (having read some of the posts) the more I think the commercial should not attack Winblows. In fact it shouldn't mention any M$ product at all (or any other rival OS's either).

Any commercial should concentrate on the strengths and unique qualities of Ubuntu and Linux. From what I recall from my business and marketing course, it is an unwritten rule that you never attack/mention a rival companies products because it invariably changes the focus of the advert. Just by doing so then makes it more difficult for customers to see your product as a viable alternative because you've placed the one that they currently use back into their mind. Further, our natural habit is to defend what we use (even if it truly isn't the right choice), since we don't like being told we're wrong. So, no matter how funny the attack, attacking Winblows will automatically place the current Winblows using customer on the defensive (even if it is sub-consciously) before they start thinking about the benefits of Ubuntu and Linux

Of course you could always have a positive and upbeat which finishes off by playing with the "where do you want to go today" statement in a funny way.

:cool:

[Kimm]

I think its OK to attack windows, if its done somewhat like in the latest Mac ads:

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

[Stormy Eyes]

some anti-attacking arguments :
-tell people about the good stuff instead of making it negative/competitive
-people who use windows don't want to be looked down upon
-we can make a commercial that creates a buzz about the word ubuntu (we might choose to not even trow a computer in)

By attacking Windows you lend it legitimacy. I don't show contempt for enemies unworthy of my time by smacking them around; I show my contempt by turning my back on them.

[Virogenesis]

Make it funny but do it with class, apple do it in such a professinal arty way p2p isn't th way to spread it the best way would be to have it posted on google videos and places like that.
I don't think it should just be a ubuntu commercial I think it should be a linux commercial one featuring our favourite friend "Tux"....
A 3d rendered Tux showing the power of Blender, at the end credits "Create using Linux" or something like that.

[aysiu]

Make it funny but do it with class, apple do it in such a professinal arty way Apple's ads are not professional at all. They're childish in a "na, na, na-na-na" way. I would hope Ubuntu commercials would not stoop to that level.

[Reshin]

A 3d rendered Tux showing the power of Blender, at the end credits "Create using Linux" or something like that.
Blender has a windows-port, as do many more open source-programs, for all I know...

[ubuntu_demon]

If you want to help with marketing Ubuntu please cooperate with these efforts :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam

[Virogenesis]

Blender has a windows-port, as do many more open source-programs, for all I know...
true but you can still say made using ubuntu or linux.....


here are some links to some ads i found on google...

Apple
=====
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4530312862416912346&q=apple
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6418565684946726378&q=apple
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8392472033575845924&q=apple
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-567065852189030929&q=apple
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3671965401254719829&q=apple+advert
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5368973491205006543&q=apple+mac
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5566658286032643965&q=apple+mac <--- anti mac quite funny
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5791932445888437378&q=apple+mac
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8243889659724706579&q=apple+mac
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=659868888687687821&q=apple+mac <--- games on mac anti mac funny again...
IBM
=====
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8333280591924223277&q=linux+ibm -- Best advert for linux....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4444798273768475649&q=linux+ibm <--- powerful

MS Windows
==========
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8490249456663499530&q=microsoft+windows <--- a windows advert

Novell
======
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-174946267631547073&q=novell <-- not bad
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2158453841610297323&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3640881435490377007&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5817171680576543088&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6306345519520368879&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6593396391568990068&q=novell <--- i like this one it reminds me of victory very positive
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7375942653979026760&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8507593731040738714&q=novell <-- good i thought
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7129982825890898332&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2676608100161201422&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2726001338830933338&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7299138080381723511&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7299138080381723511&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7914485160441160538&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7166235331884680229&q=novell <-- i like the music
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8081692139109877353&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1264829352101646142&q=novell
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=450744967037052244&q=novell <-- very good

ubuntu
======
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4573891281785499901&q=novell <--- ubuntu dapper running xgl/compiz (not a ad but its show off compiz so i included it)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5291090857789274139&q=ubuntu <--- mark himself

redhat
======
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1962236020450962985&q=redhat <--- very well produced.....


I have included some anti mac ads because they are funny, humor is alright as long as its tasteful....

[graigsmith]

i voted no, if there are any mentions of windows, it should just be in examples that show that linux is better.

[woedend]

I say yes...not a blatant name calling attack...I think that people must know that ubuntu is a replacement/alternative to windows(which many new users naturally wouldn't), and give them a reason to try to switch away from their precious windows(ie, not having virus's and tons of spyware is a huge plus for ubuntu...without mentioning all that windows has and how we don't have that problem, it's doing ubuntu a great disfavor)

[Iandefor]

dear lord, this topic's not dead yet?!

[DigitalDuality]

I'm against making fun of Windows. It's a more powerful statement snubbing your nose and pretending they don't exist., and more professional.. and doesn't insult the consumer base.

I'm also against making it "silly", using geek humor, or anything of the sort.

The video IMO... should have vision. Focus on stability, security, ease of use, freedom, and more human aspects of Ubuntu.. It should include how software is included to do most everything. It should ooh and ahh. A look at Red Hat's most recent ads impressed the hell out of me (though they did a bit of attacking throughout them.
http://www.redhat.com/truthhappens/

Novell's ads... are mostly misses. There's some good ones, but i think Novell is a good thing to look at what NOT to do ad-wise for the most part.
http://www.novell.com/video/

IBM's Linux cartoons are stupid and pointless
http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/fun/index.html?c=eserver&n=linuxfun_callout_servershome&t=advertise#

But IBM's Prodigy ad i find is very effective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4

Humor IMO, can make your product a laughing stock if it's not executed properly. So unless you're employing the wit of the Geiko insurance company, i'd recommend against it.

[RAV TUX]

I voted NO, if anything Ubuntu should compare itself to Apple and how much better it is then OS X. leave MS out of the picture and build on the hard work and success of Apple, as far as laying ground work of being an alternative to MS.

when in fact MS & Apple are just as evil as the other and Ubuntu is the only true choice of Freedom.

I would also suggest opting out of humor and focus on the spirit & humanitarian aspect of Ubuntu, and how this ties into a classy OS for human beings.

[awakatanka]

I think a commercial like the counter part of get the facts ( Redhat's truth happens ) is the way to go.

If you make it to funny and it looks like it has nothing to do with computers it will backfire.

[Klaidas]

I vote for no.
Attacking other companies isn't the spirit of Ubuntu [-(

[jimcooncat]

I'm trying to introduce Ubuntu into the workplace. We use Microsoft products and most of the workers like using them. I make additional tools available to them from the web, and am starting to develop GUI interfaces, first through VNC, and then with wxPython and xming.

Don't make the mistake of disparaging Microsoft or Windows. You'll risk motivating people not to try Ubuntu.

[aktiwers]

It could have some of the bassic stuff that Richard Stallman talks about.
About the software patent problem, and all those issues.
This way it would attack windows in a constructive way, without mentioning there name.

[ihavenoname]

1: if you want to get into a lawsuit with micosoft. go right ahead!
2: no FUNNY stuff, that would make linux look stupid and unprofessional.
3: acting like a buch of kids and making jokes and fun with Aliens is going to backfire, i don't find any kind of hummer in the OS i use. i look for stable, working and safe, with a lot of people and support, NOT Aliens!

this is your frist.
Id have to say that as much as I would love to see a funny commercial vega44 is right. People who have heard of linux think its a very diffcult OS that is mainly used by servers and teenage-collage aged students who have nothing better to do then waste their time on an OS. I say make it something that appeals to humanity, like a scene with ppl from all cultures gathered together (with maybe a nice african hym/tune playing from an Ubuntu labtop.) and have a bunch of ppl just going through life. Maybe a shot of a school scene where kids are using edubuntu. Kids at home playing games on ubuntu. Parents doing their work. I say appeal to peoples Human side...I dunno just a suggestion what do you all think?

[ComplexNumber]

i say "no". it should play up the strength of ubuntu rather than attacking MS. theres no harm in making reference to MS when describing aspects of it (eg refererencing MS office when describing open office, etc). i think its a bad idea to attack microsoft because then it makes it sound as if the only way to make linux and open source look good is by making the competition look bad. that justs the attuitude of a cornered cat....and thats not good at all because people will see through it





I say make it something that appeals to humanity, like a scene with ppl from all cultures gathered together (with maybe a nice african hym/tune playing from an Ubuntu labtop.) and have a bunch of ppl just going through life. Maybe a shot of a school scene where kids are using edubuntu. Kids at home playing games on ubuntu. Parents doing their work. I say appeal to peoples Human side...I dunno just a suggestion what do you all think? thats not a bad ide at all. take it one stage further and HIGHLIGHT the practical side of things. highlight what linux can do for the user on the practical side. cheap, easy to install, readily available software and easy to use. also mention the great range fo applications - writing email, writing spreadhseets and text documents etc. perhaps its best to highlight the unique aspects of linux - what makes it different and stand out.

[BoyOfDestiny]

Nah, attacking is lame, leave the mudslinging for apple.

I say go with the humor aspect...

Ask yourself, which kinds of commercials do you remember? For me, it's the ones that are most annoying/strange.

Who doesn't remember this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUxnF48RKVU&eurl

I think Ubuntu should do one like that. Just repeat Ubuntu over and over... Mention canonical. Mention Gnome. Mention, Free Free a few times...

Am I joking? Maybe...

One, more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HoY3O8WYi0&search=zelda%20video%20games%20nes%20classic%20gam ing%20dlimitr

So awful...

[sophtpaw]

Me!
I remember neither commercial, and they're aweful and i hope we don't model Ubuntu commercials on these at all.

I voted No also. Microsoft is not the raison d'etre of Ubuntu, it is in fact irrelevant to draw comparison or to create a polarization which is therefore untrue in the first place.

Focus on what Ubuntu is, and what is great about it. I agree with the links that support an approach like Redhat have done (the truth happens)

[ihavenoname]

Hmm, I dont think the commercial should be funny, it should attract attention, yet seem Professional. For example (in keeping with ComplexNumbers idea about showing all the applications that are available ) We can Flash the word Verstility and then show all the applications and all the things you can do with Ubuntu. THen we can Flash the words Bleeding Edge Technology (or w/e) and then show off XGL and all the other dazzling things we can use on Ubuntu.(that could also go with configurability) That way we use XGL to get people excited, the final push to use linux. But we will also be showing them how practical it is (the human side). In any case there is too much to show about Ubuntu for us to waste time on Microsoft or Apple.

[Rotarychainsaw]

I didn't read this thread, but here my idea.

Copy the Mac commercials that bash windows. You know the ones with the 2 guys standing there and one is a mac and one is a pc....

One guy will be ubuntu and the other will be mac. Maybe have the mac try to slyly attack ubuntu like he does in the real commercials and just have the ubuntu guy talking in swahili or something and the mac guy not know whats going on.

[ihavenoname]

I didn't read this thread, but here my idea.

Copy the Mac commercials that bash windows. You know the ones with the 2 guys standing there and one is a mac and one is a pc....

One guy will be ubuntu and the other will be mac. Maybe have the mac try to slyly attack ubuntu like he does in the real commercials and just have the ubuntu guy talking in swahili or something and the mac guy not know whats going on.
No offense but, I don't think that will help the Ubuntu cause at all...that would be a great idea if alot of ppl already knew about Ubuntu we have to tell them what it is...but then again how is this going to be transfered is it going to just be done through the p2p or on tv or what?

[Rotarychainsaw]

No offense but, I don't think that will help the Ubuntu cause at all...that would be a great idea if alot of ppl already knew about Ubuntu we have to tell them what it is...but then again how is this going to be transfered is it going to just be done through the p2p or on tv or what?

Yeah, you're probably right. Aiming it at people who don't know what linux is would probably be a good idea. But when I think about it, the only time I wanted to research a product is when the commercial made no sense. Maybe we don't need to tell anyone what ubuntu is.. Just use some slick artsy thing that makes it seem like it's the new must have, even if you don't care what it is.

Like that old 1984 apple commercial... If you see that you don't know what's going on, but you know you want to buy an apple.

[ihavenoname]

Hmm, a little bit of mystrey would definatly work to our advantage just as long as we sent people to a place where they could get good information.

[ubuntu_demon]

IMHO this thread has served it's purpose. All important things that could be said are said. I'm closing it.

The result of the poll is clear : an Ubuntu commercial shouldn't attack windows

If you want to discuss the commercial idea please go here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=213252

If you want to actually do something it's probably best to go here :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam