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stalker145
April 20th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Greetings, I would like to discuss a matter that has recently occured that I do not feel is in line with the forum rules.
During the last week, a thread was being conducted (Gun law (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=408229)) in which an administrator was participating. This administrator did attempt to steer the discussion a few times, but also participated in the discussion on many occasions.

At one point, I received notice in the thread that I should be careful of my wording (here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2469863&postcount=384) and immediately following (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2469869&postcount=385)). I PM'd the administrator with
I'm not trying to start any wars here and was hoping to find out what you meant in your two posts below. To the best of my knowledge, and rereading my previous posts, I do not feel that I was attacking anyone nor inciting anyone to attack. Yes, my response to OffHand was extremely sarcastic. I did not see anything of merit to his/her post and was looking for some intelligent discussion.

I have not singled out any users in my arguments. I have focused on the issues. Up until a little while ago, it seemed that I was on the outskirts of the whole thing until OffHand and Qew began to attack me personally (calling me clueless). I was merely attempting to keep it as an intelligent discussion.

If I have stepped close to violating or actually violated the rules, please let me know which one(s) and I will adjust my conduct accordingly.

Thank you for your time.

and never received a reply. I assumed everything was good, watched my wording a little better, and carried on.

The thread was closed for a time (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2476093&postcount=483) by a disinterested administrator and reopened only to be closed permanently (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2489577&postcount=568) by the participating administrator.

Finally, there was another thread started (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2491035&postcount=569) in which the originator's self-stated intent (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2491624&postcount=573) was different than the original Gun law thread, yet it was closed and merged with the Gun law thread. I can not be sure, as I only saw it briefly, but I believe the closer of that thread was the same administrator that participated in the Gun law thread.

I am definitely biased here due to participation in this thread. If it is deemed that all actions taken were acceptable, please let me know. I will have no hurt feelings and will accept any decision made by the forum.

My input here is based on the Forum Staff Policies and Expectations, specifically the following:


Thread Closing:
4. If a thread has run it's course and posts have begun repeating themes a thread may be closed - if possible, announce that the thread has run it's course before closing so that people may add closing statements - don't forget to thank all users involved in the discussion. If a thread has become a situation where people are simply too personally involved in the issue a thread may be closed and / or jailed. If a thread is a duplicate of another thread, it may be closed (please provide a link to another open thread on the same topic.) It is always a good idea to post an explanation in a thread that is closed.

11. Keeping an open mind:
Sometimes you will be faced with a thread you might not agree with it's imperative you keep an open mind towards all inclusive people, and keep a neutral focus when replying. It is our duty to steer the conversations back into a positive nature without engaging in negative behavior.

12. Posting and moderating in the same thread:
This is generally discouraged. If you have participated in a discussion and later find there is a problem in the thread contact the other staff and have someone else who is uninvolved moderate. The exception would be if no one is available, you can close the thread temporarily with a post stating that it will be looked at by a non-involved staff member as soon as possible. If you aren't sure what to do, get an administrator.

Thank you for your time. I loook forward to a response and resolution.

matthew
April 20th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Ive read all your links and given this some consideration. I think KiwiNZ acted in an appropriate manner.

If he hadn't closed the thread, one of the others of us would have, and for the same reason he gave. The thread had reached a point where people were simply repeating the same arguments, but more and more emphatically.

The thread was spiraling down fast.

As for the second thread, I don't think it was KiwiNZ who merged it in, but the two were very similar, and no matter how good the original poster's intent, it was too short a time after the first one for his new thread to do much more than provide an outlet for continued arguments from the original thread.

KiwiNZ
April 20th, 2007, 08:40 PM
Under normal circumstances I would not have closed the Gun thread as I had participated in it and I agree with Stalker on that point.

However at the time I closed it I was the only staff member on line due to time zone conditions.
We down under are awake while the rest of the World sleeps.

stalker145
April 20th, 2007, 10:57 PM
The thread was spiraling down fast.

As for the second thread, I don't think it was KiwiNZ who merged it in, but the two were very similar, and no matter how good the original poster's intent, it was too short a time after the first one for his new thread to do much more than provide an outlet for continued arguments from the original thread.

I understand your points and thank you for your consideration.


Under normal circumstances I would not have closed the Gun thread as I had participated in it and I agree with Stalker on that point.

I understand the timing issue.

I do have a question, especially now that everyone - myself included - has had a chance to cool off. What was the problem with what I had said in the forum that you responded to? I don't think that I was any more stupid than anyone else in the forum and it did seem that you were telling only the people who had an opinion contrary to your own to watch their posting. Feel free to post here or in PM. I just received your response that you were looking at my message.

Thank you.

stalker145
April 24th, 2007, 04:24 PM
I received the following three days ago from KiwiNZ as I was writing my previous post:

Please accept my apologies for over looking this message. I can assure you it was not intentional. My inbox has been hammered of late and it just got buried.

I will look at this and get back to you

Regards

KiwiNZ's PM was in response to my initial PM that I referenced in my original post. To this end I wish to ask KiwiNZ if s/he will ever get back with me to resolve my one remaining question.

KiwiNZ
April 24th, 2007, 11:30 PM
I received the following three days ago from KiwiNZ as I was writing my previous post:


KiwiNZ's PM was in response to my initial PM that I referenced in my original post. To this end I wish to ask KiwiNZ if s/he will ever get back with me to resolve my one remaining question.

Let me explain , staff here including Admins are voluteers, we do this in our personal time.
In addition to my role here , I am a Senior IT Manager for a large Organisation , I also run my own business. I know I should be able to work 28 hours per day , but alas I can not.

But I do try to slip in a little leisure time as well into my life.

stalker145
April 25th, 2007, 12:43 AM
Let me explain , staff here including Admins are voluteers, we do this in our personal time.

Yes, I am well aware of the volunteer nature of your position.

It's coincidental, though, the way this charade has played out. I PM you requesting explanation, you wait until I post an official complaint to find the PM. Four days ago, I received a PM from you stating that you would get back to me, yet here we are with you only responding after this thread is pinged again.

Two for two, if you ask me.

All that I ask is what I asked in my original PM to you, KiwiNZ: what was it that I said that merited warning? I ask so that, maybe, I can forego future problems. I'm not the most courteous individual on the 'net (I'm worse in real life), but I'm trying to work on that... I'm getting too old to be a rectal spincter (if you catch my drift).

So, what do you say? Can we talk and put this to rest, or shall we continue with the game?

matthew
April 25th, 2007, 12:53 AM
I'm going to answer on Kiwi's behalf, solely because I have a free minute and can do so.

In the first post you linked to (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2469863&postcount=384), stalker145, you were rude and dismissive of another user when you said, "Please feel free to research your statements prior to posting." That was scornful and insulting.

In the second post you linked to (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2469869&postcount=385), you were again rude and dismissive when you said, "Feel free to post back once you have had time to relax and compose your thoughts. I look forward to an intelligent discussion." You directly accused another poster of being uptight and scatterbrained.

I didn't bother to research further, it wasn't necessary.

Now, we can continue this, but I foresee it will only end up poorly for you. You are bordering on being harassing. The warnings Kiwi gave you were mild and well within his boundaries. The fact is, he could have issued infractions for either post, and I would have fully supported him doing so.

So, what do you say? Can you put this to rest, or shall we continue with the game?

stalker145
April 25th, 2007, 01:19 AM
Was I rude and dismissive? Yes, I was. Was I also previously insulted by the same people that I was making those comments toward? Yes, I was. Is the Backyard not somewhere that people go to discuss politics, religion, and other such unsavory topics that may get members' panties in a wad? Why, then, was I warned when the others were not? To be rather honest, I feel (justified or not) that there was favoritism shown within the thread. That is why I am posting in this forum.

I am aware that the admins and mods have the right to give whatever number of demerits they wish for an infraction. I also know that I can be suspended and/or banned. This is why I initially took it directly to the admin who commented on my conduct: I wanted to know what I had done so that I could watch my step the next time.

Is it being harassing to expect people to deliver on what they promise? All I asked for, multiple times, was a simple explanation as to which part of my conduct was out of bounds. If I was in the wrong for attempting to correct my own actions in that way, please let me know and I will leave this thread and never look back and KiwiNZ will not be addressed by me again. It is not my intention to harass. it is my intention to deal with problems openly and transparently.

As before, thank you for your time.

KiwiNZ
April 25th, 2007, 02:29 AM
I will add that I agree with Matthew's summary and response.

I will add that your attitude in this thread has been of a similar nature.

You say you are impatient , well I agree , you need to work in your etiquette and you may find responses to you are different.

matthew
April 25th, 2007, 09:50 AM
Was I rude and dismissive? Yes, I was.
This shows that you really do understand what the problem was and is. You want to defend yourself, but being rude and dismissive is a violation of the Forums Code of Conduct and no argument justifies it.

Your constant and rudely phrased demands for information come across as petty and as an attempt to get back at someone who you felt embarrassed you, not as a genuine quest for enlightenment. This is made even more clear by your brief confession of understanding of the actual problem you display, and your prolongated tirade against something that is completely beside the point.

Look, if you treat other users and staff with respect and politeness you will receive the same.

If you don't, you will have problems, and will run afoul of the staff eventually.

If you make a request of the staff for clarification, with politeness and respect, you will have it.

If you do so with rude, bitter tones and arrogant demands, you will experience a backlash.

I believe your questions have now been answered with clarity and precision as well as in a polite and respectful manner. Please adapt accordingly.

stalker145
April 25th, 2007, 11:13 AM
Please feel free to close this thread.