Need some site advice

[mikestefff]

(please do not think of this as spam - I am not looking for traffic - just some advice)

Hey,

I recently launched a social / user-generated site for computing & tech information, help, how-to's, etc. You might of heard about it, it got some decent media coverage (Tweako.com).

Anyway, I come here with a few questions. When I was creating this site I always had the linux communities in mind because it seemed like a site that everyone would love. These communities/forums are really remarkable - tons of great people who love offering help, sharing information, learning, etc. I've been bouncing around these communities for quite some time now. I am having some trouble thinking of ways to expose the site to the right people..So I have a few quick questions..

1) Does this seem like a site that any of you would like going to, being a part of, anything?

2) Do you have any suggestions on how I could reach people who would like such a site - maybe through certain websites, blogs, anything?

I recently decided to share 30% of revenue with my users, and it did help, but I could use more involvement. Most people just come to grab info and leave.

Thanks alot.

Mike

[rmemm]

Hard for me to say about your site. My personal experience has been that commercial sites always have an agenda -- because they are financially based. Usually they have adds to get revenue -- and then some content mixed in. Commercial sites also usually don't have the depth and breath even if they want to.

I know I already have a list of a dozen or so sites that I frequent that do everything I need. Another way to look at it -- the sites I use usually do one thing really really well. You might think of what you want your site to do really really well. It's the old adage of programming -- it's not how much a program does -- but what it does really well that's important.

Regarding sharing profits -- that's a reasonable thing to do -- but I suspect you'll find for example many people here are not motivated by profit at least as the first goal. So Ubuntu site does not have ads and even if it did -- people would probably be happy that it supported ubuntu because it's community focused first and a company second.

The other thing I would say about my web habbits. I generally search for what I want with google -- then go there for a specific purpose -- just like what your seeing on your site. People find you on google then surf through. This is what I do generally.

The exceptions to this are sites that are news sites or key forums like Ubuntu. Or if I was workiing on a project for example. Site like Digg, Slashdot, Ubuntu Forum, Lxer, LinuxQuestions etc. have more to offer than just surfing through.

The other thing I would say -- generally I try to avoid sites with ads. I realize that's about the only funding model many sites have and if it's a single banner ad tastefully at the top or something like that that's ok -- but I think this model has some real issues. First I never ever look at web ads -- so I don't know why people advertise anyway and pay for it. Second -- the web media is not a push media like TV. Web media is a search and browse media where advertising is not needed and not wanted in my view. People that treat the web like TV have it all wrong -- flash is stupid, ads don't really work and are not of value to people like in the old days where they were one of the few information channels about products.

Hope that helps.

Rob

[mikestefff]

Very nice post - well written.

I understand what you are saying. It makes perfect sense. When you say a site like Digg has more value than just surfing, what do you mean by that though?

My site has become a valuable resource for computing, already in its short life span. We have over 1000 articles/links - most of them are actually beating out Digg surprisingly in Google.

The site is offline at the moment. A network problem is being addressed.

Thank you for your feedback.

[Fascination]

The site didnt work for me - perhaps after posting the link here you just got inundated with hits. :)

EDIT: Bah, posted at the same time as you - ah well, at least I know its not just me.

[mikestefff]

Another thing I wanted to mention rmemm..

I guess I do understand your attitude towards site containing advertisements but a massive percentage of these sites cannot run for free. Hosting, employees, marketing, IT, development, and most importantly time, all cost money.

It is amazing that sites like this one can be offered without advertisements and no cost. But most cannot. I am only 19 years old. Running this website consumes almost every hour of every day now. I cannot do this for free. It also took me 3 months to develop.

[rmemm]

Regarding Digg -- Digg is a tool not information. Tools you use -- information you browse. The other point -- information is accessed through tools. So what this means -- I'll come back to Digg to use Digg to find information -- but I'll browse through any information it finds.

Digg is also somewhat unique in that members decide what's important which I like -- though I don't personally do this rating at the moment. So it has a twist over more conventional sites.

Digg has it's limits -- I would not go to digg to find out technical info on something for example -- digg is more of a fun news site than serious content -- but it does what it does very well.

So I guess were back to the theme -- the important thing is that a site do what it does very well -- and that one thing to be of interest to people.

Rob

[rmemm]

Regarding advertisements. As I said -- I understand why sites need ads. There is however a fundamental contradiction to the internet which will be interesting to see developer of the future decades. I use to be you had to advertise so people know about your business. Now -- I don't want to see ads because if I want to deal with your business I search for it on google. Ads are not needed -- but yet fund many sites. What to do?

I would also say -- must get paid for your time -- that of course depends. I do many things for which I'm not paid. I'm not paid to answer peoples questions on this site for example. So it all depends. Would you do what your doing if you were not paid? How much money is enough money? All these sorts of difficult questions.

And yes -- the reality is that most of us have to do something that pays the bills at some standard of living - but there is wide variation.

Other thing you have to realize also -- this is is not exactly free. Many of us donate money to support the open source / free software movement. So as RMS says --- it's free as in freedom not free as in beer.

Rob

[mikestefff]

What you said about Digg is true. It is a tool. And can be used to find information. My site is basically Digg for computing/technical information - not pointless news and photos. The point of this site was to create a tool for finding tons of helpful information on any computing topic - for what it has already become.

I understand everything else you said also. You make very good points.

[rmemm]

Then great. If you can make a go of it, more power to you. Other rule of Entreprenurial success -- most things fail -- but most successful entreprenures are committed to keep trying, to be in business, and by doing so find what works for them. The other trick is to not run out of cash. Most businesses fail because they run out of cash (and I specifically say cash not assets or anything else).

Other thing if your site is only a few months old -- then you have to build awareness. That will take years. It's essentially building a brand -- which is very hard, costlly, and time consuming. You may want to make certain you have a good domain name, that you own that name in reality (sometimes isp retain ownership of the actual name), and that you look into trademarks. I don't like all this BS but its probably necessary if you want to make a real business.

Other thing I would say in general -- I've used the the internet and oneline services since the early 80's. Portals to knowledge are even more important today than they were then. Much has been lost since that time. Use to be you had one reasonably cohesive group of technical people which meant the internet and web was a collection of high quality content and knowledgable people. There has been a lot of dillution. Hard to actually find things these days. Great examples -- Usenet use to be more centeral and it was a single unified forum system accross all sites -- now forums are fragmented (this is actualy a bad thing). Same with Compuserve -- compuserve forums are were great -- now have to look for these places -- Ubuntu is a good example -- they seem to be pretty good much like compuserve use to be. Google -- what do you do with 1 million hits -- probably what you need is in there -- but often hard to find it. It might be hit 832,321. My point portals and access points are really critical. Other issue is the web is less technical these days -- hard to find the knowledgable people (my questions often go unanswered these days on forums because they tend to be more obscure).

Other big challenge -- how to you archive knowledge on the web over decades and centuries. As site go down -- you loose knowledge from the web. How to you figure out what is of value and who archives it, how to you work out copywright issues for that, and how to you give the public access to it. Content providers like to say -- it's the content that has value. I think this is all wrong. What's of value is integration and archiving of content -- in more or less an open public way. Wikipedia is a great example of this. I often don't even both with google any more because Wikipedia is better.

Other thing I don't know -- might want to look at web 2.0 and see what type of user environment that gives -- people say it will improve collaboration I think -- but who knows about that.

You might also think about how you want to run your business/site. These days the problem with most big businesses is that the owners look to maximize profit. Meaning the goal is profit. The other way to go is to put the community first -- and only go for sustainable not maximum profit. It a way -- the latter is what google has done -- for example their search page is not plastered with ads and never has been. Wikipedia is another example -- they have a stable business -- but it's not a conventional maximum profit business -- but it does have cash flow (I'm not sure if it's an org or a com but both have cash flow).

Anyway, some thoughts. By the way, good luck.

Rob