Debian 4.0 finally arrives... does anyone care?

[karellen]

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5673962628.html

what do you think about this, people?...besides the fact he's exaggerating....

[rai4shu2]

A lame, desperate attempt at flame baiting. This just proves to me how solid Debian really is.

[Zwalther]

I care a lot about debian even if I don't use it myself.

1) The stable debian releases are mostly used for servers. I doesn't matter if X is hard to configure on a server (although the networking issue is a big bug).
2) A lot of very nice distro's are based on Debian so what happens to debian is very important to a lot of people.
3) He complains about almost all developers of a team being replaced by other developers and draws the conclusion that we can't be sure developers will stick around to finish a job. That is just rediculous. A lot of debian developers are sticking around and putting a lot of work in their packages. You can't draw these kind of conclusions because one team (out of many in debian) got refreshed.
4) Because debian has some problems, he says that suse and fedora will be the community linuxes of the future. Hahaha. He might be right in the end (though I don't think so), but his conclusions are based on absolutely nothing. Every distro has some problems now and then. But debian is old, has a very large community and has very sound principles. So I don't think it is going away soon.

I followed some of the links in the article that also concerned debian and I think I've seen enough from this author.

[ThinkBuntu]

Ubuntu and MEPIS, two of the most popular distros, wouldn't survive long without Debian (assuming Ubuntu didn't grab most of Debian's developers). The people working on Debian don't just maintain and improve the base of the system (apt-get, etc), they also build and maintain literally thousands of packages. Debian won't be going away any time soon from the fore of the Linux community.

[mstlyevil]

All people using Debian derivatives should care. Some people just do not have a clue what a major deal a release from Debian is.

[tommcd]

Do those linux-watch people always bash debian? I had just come across this...
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7543606709.html
... a few minutes before reading this thread.

[deanlinkous]

SJVN - well yes my paranoid delusional conspiracy theory is that he is paid to *sell* commercial linux and to do that means that Debian has to be made to look like poop or else why would people buy commercial linux.

[rai4shu2]

It's just our friendly neighborhood troll again. Once again, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols proves how inconsistent and ill-informed he is.


Debian has become a distribution whose supporters are clearly more interested in scoring points off each other than creating a serious Linux distribution. It is a group where far too many of its people are far more concerned with moronic minutiae than they are with development.

To support this assertion, he cites friction between developers and commercial organizations. What he doesn't seem to realize is that he is emblazening his own hypocrisy:


In its heyday, Debian was known for its strong moral point of view and its outstanding code.

Excuse me, but if commercial interests are calling the shots, how does that serve Debian's "strong" morals? If anything, this tells me that Debian is on the *correct* path. Commercial interests should be met with resistance, because they are always seeking to harm the cause of free software.

If that situation is a death blow to some Debian movements, then perhaps they weren't worthy of inclusion in the first place.

[raul_]

I, for example, find it more than almost stupid beyond my powers of description that Debian's free software political correctness has them renaming Firefox to IceWeasel, Thunderbird to Icedove, and Seamonkey to Iceape. But, OK, while this will mean that Debian's Mozilla programs will forever more be not as up to date as all other distributions' versions, this is petty anti-stuff.

Right here he shows that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about...i didn't read beyond that point

[justin whitaker]

SJVN - well yes my paranoid delusional conspiracy theory is that he is paid to *sell* commercial linux and to do that means that Debian has to be made to look like poop or else why would people buy commercial linux.

That's probably not far from the truth. Linux Watch is part of eWeek, which is part of Ziff-Davis, which also owns PC Magazine, 1Up, Games for Windows, and other Microsoft centric publications. I can't help but question their editorial integrity and independence. Add to that that SVN seems to only gush about Linux distributions that offer Enterprise support, particularly Microsoft's lapdog SUSE, and it makes his writing even more suspect.

[mstlyevil]

What is funny is SJVN is supposed to be a huge Linux supporter, yet the biggest Windows guy on the planet (Paul Thurrott) loves Debian and Ubuntu. If a big Windows guy can see the value of Debian over the others then how does a so called Linux guru miss that point?

[Rodneyck]

In reference to his last part about Debian taking around two years to release another update, this is already being discussed in Debian world with several options on the table to speed up releases.

See here;
http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseProposals

This guy is just a flamer. My theory is if you ignore them, they dry up like slugs in the sun and go away.

[Hendrixski]

Commercial interests should be met with resistance, because they are always seeking to harm the cause of free software.


Except for the corporations who don't want to harm the cause of software freedom. You know, the kinds of companies that communists who say stuff like "all companies are evil" would have heard of if they cared to read a book or newspaper from time to time.

If companies aren't allowed to use Linux because we think they're not cool enough, they'll just keep using oppressive software, and there will be even less software freedom. So STFU already and encourage companies to chose software freedom instead of giving them reasons to avoid us.

[rai4shu2]

If companies aren't allow to *use* Linux, it's only because they don't respect our values or encourage our efforts. The software is free for any use. How can we be more encouraging than that?

Are companies really so stupid that a little argument discourages them from using software? Maybe such companies would be better off in a communist regime.

[maxamillion]

I won't flame because I told myself I wouldn't so here we go ....

Yes, I care. I switched my home desktop back to debian the day after etch was released stable. I still run Xubuntu at work, and Ubuntu on my work laptop but I have always loved debian just never felt it was geared towards the desktop crowd and I feel that etch has bridged that gap so I figured I would go back to it, atleast for personal use. I also have always kept my production level servers running debian because of its proven stability.

Ubuntu should care about it because with debian, it would not exist.

Don't get me wrong, I love (X)ubuntu as well as debian and both for different reasons but in the end and in respect to this thread: Yes, I care.

</long winded version of "yes">

[tommcd]

In reference to his last part about Debian taking around two years to release another update, this is already being discussed in Debian world with several options on the table to speed up releases.

See here;
http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseProposals

This guy is just a flamer. My theory is if you ignore them, they dry up like slugs in the sun and go away.

This one was interesting:
http://wiki.debian.org/LetUbuntuReleaseForUs
Judging by the long list of 'cons' this does not seem likely to happen though.

[eentonig]

I don't care that much about Debian release. They are always far behind the recent/state of the art technology.

But I do care a lot about Debian and it's stringent policies regarding stability and 100% compliance.

In my point of view, Debian isn't really a distribution (Ough, stept on a lot of toes now.), but it's THE foundation when it comes to development in the Linux world (stept on a whole bunch of others...). Without Debian, the Linux as we know it, would be far from ready for the desktop. Even if Devian itself isn't ready.

[Adamant1988]

Do those linux-watch people always bash debian? I had just come across this...
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7543606709.html
... a few minutes before reading this thread.
from Sept. of '06.


I don't care that much about Debian release. They are always far behind the recent/state of the art technology.

But I do care a lot about Debian and it's stringent policies regarding stability and 100% compliance.

In my point of view, Debian isn't really a distribution (Ough, stept on a lot of toes now.), but it's THE foundation when it comes to development in the Linux world (stept on a whole bunch of others...). Without Debian, the Linux as we know it, would be far from ready for the desktop. Even if Devian itself isn't ready.
Seems like It's in about the same place as Dapper (Ubuntu's LTS release) So..

[drf_av]

Debian rocks.
Nothing else to say.
Except that at least 30% of distributions out there are based on it.

[factotum218]

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5673962628.html

what do you think about this, people?...besides the fact he's exaggerating....

You have to consider who the author is.

[Cows]

As many people have already said that the Debian distro is really needed in the Linux community for it's stability. Sure it's a little not up to the bleeding edge but a End user themselves can do that and it will also require less space and memory since the Debian netinstall itself does not take up alot of space at the end. I for myself care about Debian since it's the most stable/secure Linux distro out there.

[tommcd]

Notice how debian continues to place high on the distrowatch list (currently #6) even though many of the distros below it (sabayon, mandriva, mint, kubuntu, dreamlinux) are much more beginner friendly. Debian is where it is because of it's reputation an loyal user base. That means they must be doing something right imo.

[Bachstelze]

Holy crap, that article is the most stupid piece of bullsh*t I've read in a while !

Debian is definitely still here in my Linux top 3 along with Gentoo and Slack, I gues that guy would also have lots of rubbish to write on those two :p

[izizzle]

That is debatable. Debian is offered in...like...21 Cd''s! Many people really don't have the time to download 21 cd's worth of .iso imges. Personally, the highest I go is 2 cd's....

[Pobega]

That is debatable. Debian is offered in...like...21 Cd''s! Many people really don't have the time to download 21 cd's worth of .iso imges. Personally, the highest I go is 2 cd's....

Download the 175MB netinstall image and pull in all of the packages you need from the repositories while installing. It's as easy at that. The 21 CDs are just offered for people who don't have high speed internet access at home.

[izizzle]

Well here's a thought: How long would it take altogether to download and install debian?
About 4-6 hours Minimum.
Ubuntu: 2-3 hours MAX.

[CocoAUS]

Uh, it doesn't take 4-6 hours to install Debian. I do a pretty typical desktop install that takes like 40 minutes to download everything. It takes me like 2 or 2.5 hours to format, do a fresh install, and do all my customizations and updates.

[Pobega]

Well here's a thought: How long would it take altogether to download and install debian?
About 4-6 hours Minimum.
Ubuntu: 2-3 hours MAX.

No, just install the base system from the installer, and you should have a working system in at most two hours, and that's if you have to read documentation while you're installing (I fly through a Debian install in 10 minutes or less, personally). Then when you boot into your new system, make your sources.list point to the correct mirror (This should be automatically done for you, but it doesn't hurt to check), apt-get update && apt-get install xserver-xorg, and apt-get install whatever else you need (GNOME/GDM, if you want the regular "Ubuntu" setup, or you could go for something lighter, like Fluxbox/XDM).

You'll end up with a pretty light setup, in less time than most other distributions. And your software is taken directly off of the Debian repositories during installation, rather than from the CD, which means the packages are at their current version.

If you've never installed Debian before I don't see how you can compare it to Ubuntu at all; Ubuntu is nice for the fact that it attracts new users to FLOSS, and offers a "user-friendly" version of Debian for the computer illiterate. But when it comes to "down and dirty" distributions, Debian takes the cake. Things may take a little bit longer than Ubuntu to setup, but in the end you have a system that is lighter, more responsive, and (Arguably) more stable and secure.

The only thing is for Debian you'll most likely have to learn the Cli. If you're not comfortable with that and only want a GUI, I'd stick with Ubuntu. I use Debian myself, and I heavily use the Cli; I can't say that for everyone who uses Debian, but I really can't see any way of setting up a Debian installation without knowing the Cli, at least a bit.

[kerry_s]

You can also now grab the kde or xfce4 disk and have a complete system with only 1 disk. If you type> installgui < you even get the pretty installer.

kde-> http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso

xfce4-> http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-40r0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso

net-> http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso

site-> http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/

[webmonkey44]

Of course people care, linuxwatch describing Debian is ONLY flamebait.

[phidia]

Sorry I missed this thread when it was fresh. I just recently installed Debian 4.0-r0-amd64 on my newly built AMD 64x2 and it's great!! I love debian and their commitment to gnu. Ice weasel is pretty cool too! :)
I'm very glad that debian is out there!!

[carolinason]

Not sure why Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is becoming a Debian opponent. He has been falling out of favor with the distro for some time.

Other than Ubuntu stable and testing, I use Debian 4 and Lenny. Both Debs are the most robust I know of... in the recent round of releases. Exempli Gratia, Some distros I can't mention out of courtesy have had issues installing on some machines here in the shop, while Debian stable and testing have not. And while I don't run debian as a large router, I've had no issues with networking as I've had with uhem some other distros of the future that Steven mentions.

As one poster mentions, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is mis-informed and seemingly ignorant.

[Omnios]

I had an old P2-350 that would not install Ubuntu. Anyways did a Debian net install and it installed a legacy kernel and all worked well. I found that impressive and powerful as a workable solution for legacy gear.

[tommcd]

Anybody know if there are kernel updates for debian testing? I installed etch 4.0, then upgraded to testing by changing my sources.list to point to testing. I am on the 2.6.18 kernel, and I don't see any newer kernels available in the debian repos. So if you follow testing, do you get periodic kernel updates like we do in ubuntu? How do kernel updates work in debian? The 2.6.18 kernel is working fine for me. I'm just curious about this.

[odiseo77]

Anybody know if there are kernel updates for debian testing? I installed etch 4.0, then upgraded to testing by changing my sources.list to point to testing. I am on the 2.6.18 kernel, and I don't see any newer kernels available in the debian repos. So if you follow testing, do you get periodic kernel updates like we do in ubuntu? How do kernel updates work in debian? The 2.6.18 kernel is working fine for me. I'm just curious about this.

I've dist-upgraded to lenny/sid and I haven't got kernel upgrades in a long while (also using the 2.6.18 kernel), but as long as it works, who cares? ;) (besides, it's good for me because I'm using a wireless card and the official nvidia drivers, so anytime a new kernel upgrade comes I have to set up everything again :biggrin: )

[tommcd]

Guess I should learn to be patient. Doing a apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade got me a new kernel today:

debian:/home/tom# uname -r
2.6.21-2-686
debian:/home/tom#

Guess I will have to set up my wireless again!

[bebop_tango]

That is debatable. Debian is offered in...like...21 Cd''s! Many people really don't have the time to download 21 cd's worth of .iso imges. Personally, the highest I go is 2 cd's....

Well... I did.

:)

I have dial-up at home, so I did it in college. It's not really _that_ long if you ftp 'em all from a nearby server with a broadband connection.

I decided to try other Linux flavours because of Edgy's annoying little bugs... I even considered moving _back_ to Dapper once!

Anyway, once with the whole bunch of CDs it's wonderful to aptitude everything I need at once...! I'ts a bit annoying to _change_ the CDs every 5 freakin' seconds but... it's worth it.

Plus, I think Debian is the Linux distro that best honors the spirit of free-software.