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Hendrixski
April 9th, 2007, 03:06 PM
My username shouldn't have any bearing on what I post; my opinions regarding Microsoft are completely irrelevant in an objective discussion in which I am trying to explain my position regarding Windows and Linux.



Actually it does. If you showed up to a discussion dressed as a clown then nobody would take you seriously. So while your points are valid, and your experience speaks for itself, nobody cares because your username makes you look like a clown.

M$LOL
April 9th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Actually it does. If you showed up to a discussion dressed as a clown then nobody would take you seriously. So while your points are valid, and your experience speaks for itself, nobody cares because your username makes you look like a clown.
That's your opinion. Just because my username suggests I am anti-Microsoft doesn't mean that I won't be taken seriously. Your argument also falls down because the analogy of me turning up to a discussion implies that I am dressing specifically for a discussion, whereas in reality I am not on these forums for the sole purpose of debating on the topic of Linux versus Windows.

You may think that nobody cares, but that's irrelevant because that's just an unfounded opinion based on your own feelings. If you actually read my posts regarding Windows, you'll find that I'm not making any sweeping, fabricated statements, and I'm just stating either fact or my reasons for disliking Windows etc.

Based on my experience of Microsoft products, I have come to the conclusion that they are inferior to their opensource counterparts, and I see nothing wrong with expressing that through my profile on a Linux forum.

aysiu
April 9th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Your argument also falls down because the analogy of me turning up to a discussion implies that I am dressing specifically for a discussion, whereas in reality I am not on these forums for the sole purpose of debating on the topic of Linux versus Windows. So in a discussion you need to be taken seriously, but in a debate, you don't?

The analogy's perfect, actually. Hate to break the news to you. If someone has a username called LinuxIsForLosers and starts talking trash about Linux in an intelligent way, many people will not take her seriously just because of her username. Some may, but many won't. If you want to be taken seriously by the most people, your username and your arguments should not indicate any bias.

M$LOL
April 9th, 2007, 08:59 PM
So in a discussion you need to be taken seriously, but in a debate, you don't?
That's not what I said. I'll rephrase:
Your argument also falls down because the analogy of me turning up to a discussion implies that I am dressing specifically for the discussion, whereas in reality I am not on these forums for the sole purpose of the discussion.


The analogy's perfect, actually. Hate to break the news to you. If someone has a username called LinuxIsForLosers and starts talking trash about Linux in an intelligent way, many people will not take her seriously just because of her username. Some may, but many won't. If you want to be taken seriously by the most people, your username and your arguments should not indicate any bias.

The analogy suggests that I'm here (with my username) just to debate over Windows and Linux, which isn't the case. Yes, it's true that ideally my username shouldn't be biased, but it is, and that's reflecting my opinion, not what I say in my arguments. Anyway, I'm not talking trash about Microsoft, as I said I'm trying to be objective in my posts, and my username doesn't suggest anything as bold or stereotypical as 'LinuxIsForLosers'.

@FinE: Thanks, that's interesting.

aysiu
April 9th, 2007, 09:06 PM
I think you're misunderstanding the analogy.

It's not a politician preparing to go to a meeting of congress and sitting in front of the wardrobe thinking, Hm. I'm going to address them on a serious matter. Should I bring my three-piece suit... or the clown get-up?

It's like someone dressed in a clown suit for a costume party then going on to a funeral to give a eulogy... without having the foresight to realize she should have brought an extra pair of clothes... or found a costume that would have worked for both events.

Now, of course, you can't change your username depending on the subject, but you knew when you chose your username that at some point you might be participating in MS v. Linux discussions, and your username comes along with you. People notice that, not just what you say, for better or worse.

Since there are different kinds of discussions you can participate in here, you should think about how your username will work for all possible events you participate in. And, if you don't, well, just don't be surpised if a significant group of people don't take what you say seriously on certain subjects.

M$LOL
April 9th, 2007, 09:28 PM
I wasn't particularly worried about my username affecting my position in an MS/Linux debate when all I originally wanted to do was get my wireless card working.

All I can say to people who are seemingly upset that my username represents a negative outlook on the MS side is that it's not supposed to be part of my argument, so don't accuse me of "looking like a clown".

Toadmund
April 9th, 2007, 09:30 PM
What you people need is a serious name, like Toadmund :)

(the earned respect is enormous, sorta 'jumps' out at you!)

I'm serious.

aysiu
April 9th, 2007, 09:31 PM
So you don't look like a clown. You look like a referee at a hockey game wearing the jersey and colors of one team and not the other. That ref may make perfect calls and be totally impartial in his actions, but he won't be taken seriously by the other team.

I'm just saying that a lot of people will see your username and not take you seriously on this topic, because your username indicates a definite bias against Microsoft.

While this isn't technically "logical" (some would call it a twist on ad hominem--"attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument"--in this case a slight against a username instead of your actual character), it certainly is natural and to be expected. If you want to be taken seriously in a thread about Linux users and Microsoft, you choose a name that doesn't involve you laughing out loud at Microsoft.

Yes, of course, you couldn't have known when you wanted to fix your wireless card that you'd end up arguing about Linux and Microsoft. Or, you could have known, but you just didn't consider that possibility. That's just an unfortunate happenstance.

M$LOL
April 9th, 2007, 09:56 PM
So essentially you're agreeing with me, that my username has no bearing on my posts' technical accuracy, and that I'm not being biased in my posts.

AndyCooll
April 9th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Technically your posts may well not have any bias and may be accurate. Unfortunately (as Aysiu points out) they won't be perceived to be unbiased, or when discussing M$ products be perceived as accurate, by many people because of your username. Perhaps folks shouldn't pre-judge (and you hope they won't), but they will.

A bit like the saying "Never judge a book by its cover", however most people DO!

:cool:

aysiu
April 9th, 2007, 10:51 PM
I'm saying the expectation that your username will not affect how people perceive your arguments on a subject your username shows a definite bias about is an unrealistic expectation.

Should a ref who is wearing the jersey of one of the teams be judged as unfair, even if all the calls were fair? Well, I think you're just asking for trouble if you wear that jersey. You're practically begging people to challenge your calls, whether they were fair or not.

The best thing is to hold both parties accountable--those who expect to be taken seriously on a subject should not give others obvious reasons to think they're biased. And others should try their best to consider arguments in a vacuum based on their merit and apart from who's making the argument.

And there shouldn't be any world hunger. And everyone should eat a well-balanced diet and exercise regularly.

Hendrixski
April 11th, 2007, 01:45 PM
So you don't look like a clown. You look like a referee at a hockey game wearing the jersey and colors of one team and not the other. That ref may make perfect calls and be totally impartial in his actions, but he won't be taken seriously by the other team.

I'm just saying that a lot of people will see your username and not take you seriously on this topic, because your username indicates a definite bias against Microsoft.


I actually like that analogy better than my clown analogy.

I mean no offense by having mentioned how unprofessional it looks. I am simply pointing out that it does detract from what otherwise would be solid arguments.

EdThaSlayer
April 11th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Having a name that has M$ with a $ means you are biased in some way or another because you think it is a greedy company. But remember, in this world of capitalism, greed is what makes it work. :)

aysiu
April 11th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Having a name that has M$ with a $ means you are biased in some way or another because you think it is a greedy company. But remember, in this world of capitalism, greed is what makes it work. :)
Well, thinking Microsoft is a greedy company doesn't mean you're biased. But I think the LOL part shows disrespect. It actually goes beyond wearing the jersey of one team. It's more like wearing a jersey where the mascot of one team is pissing on the mascot of the other team.

beefcurry
April 11th, 2007, 04:45 PM
I think more mature names such as "JonC" would be taken more seriously then "Deathstriker6666". To some extend it does show off someones maturity and responsibility. Just becasue you can have a internet Psuedo name dosnt mean you can make it rude or offensive. or in Deathstriker6666's case, quite childish. But that is only my opinion.

Super King
April 11th, 2007, 04:49 PM
[...]my username has no bearing on my posts' technical accuracy, and that I'm not being biased in my posts.

Your username has no bearing on your posts' accuracy, but it certainly has an effect on the accuracy as perceived by others. Aysiu has already provided numerous apt analogies as to why this is the case.

mstlyevil
April 11th, 2007, 05:01 PM
The first thing that comes to my mind when I see the M$ in a post, name or whatever is "Oh no not another childish jab at Microsoft!" Then you add the LOL and it just confirms in my mind that the person is immature and not to be taken seriously.

The name a person chooses reflects a part of their personality. By choosing M$LOL you are projecting a part of you that is not to be taken seriously. This influences what people think of you before they ever read a post. You may be extremely balanced and very intelligent but my first impression is that you are not. Sometimes first impressions are the only chance you will get to have an influence on some people.

Sunnz
April 11th, 2007, 05:47 PM
When I first saw the name M$LOL and the Windows box avatar, I always immediately thought that he was pro-windows.

Hey, that's just me.

m.musashi
April 11th, 2007, 07:03 PM
So you don't look like a clown. You look like a referee at a hockey game wearing the jersey and colors of one team and not the other. That ref may make perfect calls and be totally impartial in his actions, but he won't be taken seriously by the other team.
That is a really good analogy but if you go one step further I think it also shows how for most activities on the forum it won't matter much.

The hockey ref only does say one game a week. The rest of his time is spent hanging out with his friends who also are fans of the same team. They will not see a problem with his choice of attire.

On a Linux forum I don't see how it would be that big of a deal - only perhaps when discussing the merits of windows.

Hendrixski
April 12th, 2007, 02:18 AM
I hope that nobody feels that this thread is bashing one guy. It's pointing out to a lot of people the fact that everyone judges books by their covers.

So... what kind of perception do people have of a username like mine for example? I've had it for a long time (since high school actually, almost 10 years). I use it everywhere, AIM, email, forums, Wikipedia. What kind of first impression does it give?

user1397
April 12th, 2007, 02:30 AM
I think my nick is probably one of the most neutral in the forums (at least I think so)

so maybe, you can be ubuntuman002 :o

aysiu
April 12th, 2007, 02:31 AM
So... what kind of perception do people have of a username like mine for example? I kind of assumed you were a Jimi Hendrix fan... who happened to have some Polish roots, too. Am I wrong?

Sunnz
April 12th, 2007, 02:34 AM
I think my nick is probably one of the most neutral in the forums (at least I think so)

so maybe, you can be ubuntuman002 :o
Lol why?

Don't you just fit perfectly in the example, "a ref who is wearing the jersey of one of the teams"?

aysiu
April 12th, 2007, 02:35 AM
Probably the most neutral in this arena would be ilovewindowsmaclinuxsolarisbsdunix

23meg
April 12th, 2007, 02:37 AM
So... what kind of perception do people have of a username like mine for example?

That of someone who's into Jimi Hendrix and skiing would perhaps be a common interpretation. But individual perceptions and associations of even the most typical nicknames (like those of anything else) can vary wildly; my unvocalized/assumed pronunciation of it weirdly spells with Penderecki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krzysztof_Penderecki), and I get reminded of the composer when I see your nickname.

prizrak
April 12th, 2007, 03:38 AM
Hendrixski,
Of course, I would never trust your opinion ;) Then again I actually know you ;)

m.musashi
April 12th, 2007, 03:47 AM
Then again I actually know you ;)

Dude, that's just spooky.

prizrak
April 12th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Dude, that's just spooky.

Hehe, not really we both graduated from the same school :)

Hendrixski
April 12th, 2007, 05:07 PM
I kind of assumed you were a Jimi Hendrix fan... who happened to have some Polish roots, too. Am I wrong?

Cool. That's 100% on the money.

And while ILoveMacLinuxWindowsBsdSolarisDosUnixBeosAndMinix may be one hell of a neutral name... I got one better:


ILikeVimEmacsEclipseVisualStudioAndGeanny

aysiu
April 12th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Cool. That's 100% on the money. That's amazing. It was a total guess on my part.


And while ILoveMacLinuxWindowsBsdSolarisDosUnixBeosAndMinix may be one hell of a neutral name... I got one better: Those would definitely be in the top five for neutral names... at least on these forums.

Hendrixski
April 12th, 2007, 05:17 PM
Hendrixski,
Of course, I would never trust your opinion ;) Then again I actually know you ;)

LOL

You're just saying that because I'm Polish and You're Russian, and we're SUPPOSED to not trust each other.

And... you know, the fact that you just can't trust Russians.. period. I saw it in a James Bond movie so it must be true.

:-( Hey, are you still in Brooklyn? I was just in NYC a month or so ago for UbuCon... I totally forgot to call. You would've liked it.

Sunnz
April 12th, 2007, 05:37 PM
While ILoveMacLinuxWindowsBsdSolarisDosUnixBeosAndMinix ignores OpenVMS, HP-UX, GNU/Hurd and perhaps many more...

ILikeVimEmacsEclipseVisualStudioAndGeanny forgot to mention gedit, kate, medit, kwrite, netBeans and perhaps many more.

Neutral? Far from it. :p

prizrak
April 12th, 2007, 05:43 PM
LOL

You're just saying that because I'm Polish and You're Russian, and we're SUPPOSED to not trust each other.

And... you know, the fact that you just can't trust Russians.. period. I saw it in a James Bond movie so it must be true.

:-( Hey, are you still in Brooklyn? I was just in NYC a month or so ago for UbuCon... I totally forgot to call. You would've liked it.

Yep Brooklyn for life! ;)

P.S. Aparently my old HS got so ghetto they decided to close it down.

stalker145
April 12th, 2007, 05:57 PM
I must say that at first, I thought that everyone was ganging up on M$LOL and thought I'd have to sneak up behind all of you and take you out... oh, wait, that would be making assumptions based on my username...

Anyway, to the meat of it. We talk on these forums of maturity, kindness, ethics, and the like. We believe ourselves to be open minded and accepting, as well as possessing the previously mentioned traits. I don't see a lick of maturity, open mindedness, or acceptance in this discussion.
While, yes, first impressions are lasting impressions and how a person looks, in this case an avatar or username, can have a huge impact on a discussion and make a bad first impression, in this world of intelligent discussion it's not the fault of the target (M$LOL and the likes). It is our problem if we can not get past that first impression and realize that the other person is making a good point.
Let's create yet another analogy: you have a 22 year-old male with tattoos all over his body that comes into your office looking for a job. This individual has no hair on the side or back of his head and a tight flattop (classic military cut). He's a gangly young man and your first thought is that he's a punk just there to skate by while, in fact, he's just back from a war, separated from the military due to wounds received in battle and would probably be one of the best leaders and hardest workers you could find.
Who is at fault for this young man not getting the job? Him for his looks or the employer for not even looking at his application?

If we, as a community, wish to overcome our label as a rogue or amateur group, we need to grow in our acceptance of people (what's Ubuntu mean again?). We need to show our maturity and pay attention to the words that are shown in a discussion instead of just an avatar or name.

aysiu
April 12th, 2007, 06:05 PM
If someone looks like a punk, and the job requires you to not look like a punk, well, then I wouldn't hire him. Just as with the referee analogy--there are certain times where you have to maintain a degree of professionalism, despite your personal opinions.

And I don't believe that M$LOL as a username shows maturity in discussions of Microsoft and Linux. M$LOL as a person may show maturity in discussion, but the name itself shows irreverence and not just criticism.

If there were a debate among political candidates about racial issues, and one candidate showed up in blackface, I wouldn't care what she had to say about the issue, how intelligent the words that came out of her mouth were, or how rational her verbal arguments were. The blackface alone is a statement, just as a username is a statement and an attitude.

It's not simply a matter of user prejudice because you don't like the username. The username is its own statement--just as showing up in bedraggled clothes to an interview for investment banking is a statement, and one that won't be ignored no matter how witty your banter.

m.musashi
April 12th, 2007, 06:58 PM
I can see how some might be less inclined to give credibility in a windows discussion to someone who seems to dislike windows, but I think on the whole it's not that big of a deal.

Look at it from the opposite perspective. What if someone's user name was LinuxRocks, or UbuntuRocks or some other affirmation of Linux or Ubuntu. Do you think other users are going to be disinclined to listen to them as they extol the benefits of Ubuntu because they have a clear bias? I suppose some might - especially anyone who doesn't think Linux is great - but again I think it will be a minor issue.

Oh, and the most neutral username would have to be

Switzerland :)

aysiu
April 12th, 2007, 07:07 PM
There's a difference between idon'tlikewindows and M$LOL

The first expresses an opinion in a matter-of-fact way. The second makes a mockery of its subject matter.

daynah
April 12th, 2007, 07:28 PM
I'm a visual person. I don't read the usernames, I go by avatars. I only noticed Aysiu's user name because s/he gave me infraction points one time (but total sweetie). That's when I put the name Aysiu to "the cat." Aysiu is the cat.

If Aysiu ever changes his/her picture, since I never read the user names, I wont know that it was "the cat" that posted.

M$LOL and Hendrixski, because if your avatars, you look like old guys (because the avatars are boring and, just like every other 19 year old, when I think of boring things, 60 year old guys are an example of that). I also can't tell you apart in a thread, because you guys are just program logos.

Everyone who has a tux is the same person. Everyone who has a circle of friends variant, same person to me. Everyone who has a logo of some other distro, program, whatever, is also the same person as M$LOLHendrixski.

I know "the cat" I know "the dead lady that got brought back to life" and I know "crazy curly haired lady." There are others but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

So no, your username doesn't affect me. And if you have an avatar like everyone else, it wont affect how I see you except "Ah, another drone." If you have something different, I'll notice you, but it'll be your avatar that affects what I see. (I thought crazy curly haired avatar was a girl. :( But it's a guy. Oops.)

aysiu
April 12th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Thanks for offering that perspective, daynah. I think I used to be like that, too, but now I've turned off avatars (and pretty much all images on the forums), so all I have to go by is usernames, so I've gotten used to looking at usernames instead of avatars.

matthew
April 12th, 2007, 07:34 PM
I know "crazy curly haired lady."

(I thought crazy curly haired avatar was a girl. :( But it's a guy. Oops.)LOL. I prefer "bubble-head space child," but your description works. :D

Hey, I'm famous!

I notice both avatars and usernames and I can't escape the fact that, while I try very hard to be fair and evenhanded, first impressions make an impact. I especially dislike usernames that mock or use bad language (or variations thereof).

Brunellus
April 12th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Yes.

In the real world, you don't (generally) choose your name, your face, or your family, so peoples' perceptions of you may not be entirely fair. That's life.

On T3h In74rw3bz, you exist only as an abstraction--as thought. If honorable people in real life say that "their word is their bond," on the Internet--your word is all you are.

The first word you choose is your name. Like it or not, that will govern how you're perceived.

ComplexNumber
April 12th, 2007, 07:35 PM
I'm a visual person. I don't read the usernames, I go by avatars.that suggests that you choose your avatar to say something about yourself. what impression is it intended to convey?


i think people use all available cues in oder to judge someone(at least at the subconscious level), although various cues(eg maybe nationality, maybe avatar, maybe username, maybe posting style, etc) are of differing importance from one individual to the next.

daynah
April 12th, 2007, 07:39 PM
OH! Freaky eye guy made a post! :) Sorry I forgot about you, freaky eye guy aka Brunellus ;)

My avatar is meant to convey bright green and red so when I scroll down fast thinking "ahhh! Where did I say something?" (so I know the last time I looked at the thread) I can find it easily.

m.musashi
April 12th, 2007, 07:45 PM
I'd say the second expresses an opinion in a humorous way - or at least attempted humor depending on what you find funny. Whether it's mockery or just a joke is also an opinion.

Personally, this thread seems to be somewhat of an attack on one person. If his username is a problem then he should be contacted and the issue resolved. If people want to debate the merits of usernames in general then that should be it's own thread.

ComplexNumber
April 12th, 2007, 07:45 PM
My avatar is meant to convey bright green and red so when I scroll down fast thinking "ahhh! Where did I say something?" (so I know the last time I looked at the thread) I can find it easily.well, erm, i think thats certainly an original explanation if ever i heard one.

John.Michael.Kane
April 12th, 2007, 07:49 PM
This is an interesting thread...

M$LOL
April 12th, 2007, 07:50 PM
@aysiu: But "idon'tlikewindows" expresses it in a clearer, more definite way. "M$LOL" doesn't actually say that I'm against MS, it indicates it, but doesn't actually define it in the way that the first one does. It could be interpreted that Microsoft are laughing, whereas there aren't any other ways the first one can be interpreted.

@daynah: I can't imagine what it is about my avatar that is boring.Here's the enlarged version. (http://home.planet.nl/~muije000/Humour/Windows_MfE.jpg)

I've changed my avatar to a slightly more apt one.:guitar:

Perhaps people should stop treating my username like a warcrime and get over the fact that I am going to express my dislike of M$ through my profile on a LINUX forum, and if someone wants to interpret that as me being biased in a discussion, I really don't care any more.

prizrak
April 12th, 2007, 07:58 PM
OH! Freaky eye guy made a post! :) Sorry I forgot about you, freaky eye guy aka Brunellus ;)

My avatar is meant to convey bright green and red so when I scroll down fast thinking "ahhh! Where did I say something?" (so I know the last time I looked at the thread) I can find it easily.

LOL funnily enough my avatar serves much the same purpose :)

ahaslam
April 12th, 2007, 07:58 PM
What you people need is a serious name, like Toadmund :)

(the earned respect is enormous, sorta 'jumps' out at you!)

I'm serious.

;)

prizrak
April 12th, 2007, 07:59 PM
I've changed my avatar to a slightly more apt one.:guitar:

Now we won't listen to you because you are an ogre ;)

daynah
April 12th, 2007, 08:05 PM
AAH Attack of the ghost posts!

Brunellus
April 12th, 2007, 08:09 PM
OH! Freaky eye guy made a post! :) Sorry I forgot about you, freaky eye guy aka Brunellus ;)

My avatar is meant to convey bright green and red so when I scroll down fast thinking "ahhh! Where did I say something?" (so I know the last time I looked at the thread) I can find it easily.
"freaky eye guy?"

My old avatar used to be a picture of me holding a camera. I switched to this one a while back--probably when I received the invitation to be on the mod team?

daynah
April 12th, 2007, 08:12 PM
There wasn't any detail in the avatar, M$LOL. I like Shrek (the first one!)

As humans, we all use heuristics to get by. Our brains cannot process every detail in the world, we have to group things together; we have to sacrifice detail for speed. It's just human. :)

Because I'm human, I'm going to see see a girl with crazy hair and assume the person posting is a girl, but then I'm going to see that the name is Matthew and assume Matthew is a boy. But those are both assumptions and either one could be right, or neither could be right, or both could be right.

Someone sees a M$LOL debating against microsoft, they're going to assume you were biased to begin with and didn't even listen. This is just as bad of an assumption as assuming that Matthew/Bubblegirl is a girl, boy, or has a sex at all. But I bet you assumed that Matthew has a gender didn't you? I bet you assumed he wasn't a eunic?

Did you ask if he was a eunic? Expecting us to ask, or wait and see if you give us hints if you are biased or not is just as odd as expecting us to ask or wait and see if Matthew tells us if he is a eunic.

Matthew, are you a eunic?

A bit rude, isn't it? And we have to ask this about everyone on the forums? How many people are on the forums? So we just go through our lives on the forums using the information we're given and just accept that there's going to be a fairly large margin of error.

Oh well. Matthew may be a eunic and I may be wrong assuming that he's a girl or a boy. Still is a very intelligent poster. I don't care what's in his pants. :)

bernied
April 12th, 2007, 08:21 PM
To be a pedantic turtle, the word you're looking for is eunuch (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eunuch).

I think it's good to be in a place where you can be gender anonymous (but I'm not sure that eunuchs have no gender, they are eunuchs).

daynah
April 12th, 2007, 08:36 PM
You're right. I'll leave it up for humor. Officially, Matthew is not a eunich, but possibly a eunuch.

matthew
April 12th, 2007, 08:53 PM
My avatar is meant to convey bright green and red so when I scroll down fast thinking "ahhh! Where did I say something?" (so I know the last time I looked at the thread) I can find it easily.Hmm. I see it and think, "strong, attractive female who commands respect (and is willing to bust some heads)."


Because I'm human, I'm going to see see a girl with crazy hair and assume the person posting is a girl, but then I'm going to see that the name is Matthew and assume Matthew is a boy. But those are both assumptions and either one could be right, or neither could be right, or both could be right.

Someone sees a M$LOL debating against microsoft, they're going to assume you were biased to begin with and didn't even listen. This is just as bad of an assumption as assuming that Matthew/Bubblegirl is a girl, boy, or has a sex at all. But I bet you assumed that Matthew has a gender didn't you? I bet you assumed he wasn't a eunic?

Did you ask if he was a eunic? Expecting us to ask, or wait and see if you give us hints if you are biased or not is just as odd as expecting us to ask or wait and see if Matthew tells us if he is a eunic.

Matthew, are you a eunic?

A bit rude, isn't it? And we have to ask this about everyone on the forums? How many people are on the forums? So we just go through our lives on the forums using the information we're given and just accept that there's going to be a fairly large margin of error.

Oh well. Matthew may be a eunic and I may be wrong assuming that he's a girl or a boy. Still is a very intelligent poster. I don't care what's in his pants. :)rotfl!

I'm a happily married heterosexual male and a father of three. I just like psychedelic art. It's in my profile (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=17635) as well. :) (EDIT: launchpad page (https://launchpad.net/%7Ematthelmke))


You're right. I'll leave it up for humor. Officially, Matthew is not a eunich, but possibly a eunuch.I'm not a eunuch, but I hang around with unix a lot. <- really bad pun, but it works ever-so-slightly better when spoken aloud.

Brunellus
April 12th, 2007, 08:56 PM
but what if his name were Eunice?

matthew
April 12th, 2007, 08:59 PM
but what if his name were Eunice?Matilda?

ComplexNumber
April 12th, 2007, 09:38 PM
i am not a man. i am a free number.

John.Michael.Kane
April 12th, 2007, 09:42 PM
i am not a man. i am a free number.

Right.... And complex at that! lol

Then again your name could of been SD-Plissken,, lol

prizrak
April 13th, 2007, 03:09 PM
I'm not a eunuch, but I hang around with unix a lot. <- really bad pun, but it works ever-so-slightly better when spoken aloud.
LOL me and my friend were joking about that quite a bit.

Hendrixski
April 13th, 2007, 03:11 PM
I don't look at avatars much the same way I just don't see banner ads. But you guys have a point, it's part of how you present yourself just the same as a username.

I guess my avatar may not be quite neutral either since it's a logo of Solaris UNIX. Which I'm quite fond of since I used to use it quite a bit (but haven't for a long while). I think I shall change it... but to what?

maybe a guitar above a map of poland?
or a big hendrix head on a small body of someone on skis?
or the eagle from the polish flag just kind of rockin' out with a guitar?


*sigh If only I could draw.

JAPrufrock
April 13th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Someone sees a M$LOL debating against microsoft, they're going to assume you were biased to begin with and didn't even listen.

For starters, we're all biased or prejudiced. I don't agree that you lose credibility because of your name or avatar. I do agree that if someone's name were "I hate Microsoft", I would instantly know where he/she was coming from ideologically, at least when discussing Microsoft. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't take that person's ideas seriously. Anyway, most discussions have to do with promoting one's own opinions, rather than trying to come to some sort of intellectual epiphany after objectively considering everyone else's opinion.

By the way, it's impossible to bash Microsoft because every negative thing that's ever been written about Microsoft is true. Whoops,... I think I just lost my credibility.

BLTicklemonster
April 13th, 2007, 04:27 PM
My username... well - and then I get this in a PM:


Hello, username comment.
There is no way this email is going to go well, but here goes...

Hello, I thought your username was amusingly silly on a inux forum, so I had to see what your profile said about you. I was expecting fluffy bunnies and cutesy animals. The face does NOT go with the name. Then to find you hang out in a site called The Black Legion - home of zark arms and batwings, which does match your face, is even more amusing. Do they know your alter ego as a tickle monster? What's the BL stand for? Did you loose a bet and have to use that username?

thanks.

... so ah... hmmmm.

matthew
April 13th, 2007, 04:36 PM
My username... well - and then I get this in a PM:
Now, that's just odd.

BLTicklemonster
April 13th, 2007, 04:51 PM
Now, that's just odd.

Great. Now the one and only Matthew is picking on me. :(





lol

matthew
April 13th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Great. Now the one and only Matthew is picking on me. :(





lol:)

I meant the PM that you received was odd.

BLTicklemonster
April 13th, 2007, 05:10 PM
??? Now how is it that me getting a PM is odd? Why I get PM-ed all the time! Granted most of them are from me, but they're PMs!


(and I wonder why no one takes me seriously... I'll stop now.)

matthew
April 13th, 2007, 05:20 PM
??? Now how is it that me getting a PM is odd? Why I get PM-ed all the time! Granted most of them are from me, but they're PMs!
I was a little slow to understand...I thought you were experiencing near-harassment. Doh! Now I get the joke.

daynah
April 13th, 2007, 05:21 PM
Sounds like you've got a secret admirer just begging to be tickled and just doesn't want to admit it.

ComplexNumber
April 13th, 2007, 05:27 PM
Sounds like you've got a secret admirer just begging to be tickled and just doesn't want to admit it.
maybe its a dog thats learnt to type.

atihimself
April 13th, 2007, 05:47 PM
Well if the username is something like "super-mega-hacker-from- the-matrix-grandfather-of-Neo" and asks realllllly pstupid question (like "where is the START button???) then I think it shows that the guy behind the nami is just a boser or a guy who accidently found the forum.

Nolander
April 13th, 2007, 05:55 PM
maybe its a dog thats learnt to type.

a dog? Wat the... i dont get it, did i miss something. anyway...
i just wanted to join in and explain me Username and avatar. my username is nolander. nolan is my family name. No Land is a reference to the fact that im a sailer and im a sea scout, so u got landy(a land scout) and no lander(water scout).

nolander.

ps. i c nothing wrong with M$LOL he is simply stating how he feel about MS.

ComplexNumber
April 13th, 2007, 06:01 PM
a dog? Wat the... i dont get it, did i miss something. anyway...

when daynah said this:".... just begging to be tickled.....", it just reminded me of our dog.

BLTicklemonster
April 13th, 2007, 06:34 PM
I was a little slow to understand...I thought you were experiencing near-harassment. Doh! Now I get the joke.

Ticklemonster ---> you laugh.


My work here is done.


So yeah, a user's name can immediately stack credibility against the user.

m.musashi
April 13th, 2007, 06:43 PM
So yeah, a user's name can immediately stack credibility against the user.

Not true. I have total faith in the tickle monster:).

M$LOL
April 13th, 2007, 09:46 PM
For starters, we're all biased or prejudiced. I don't agree that you lose credibility because of your name or avatar. I do agree that if someone's name were "I hate Microsoft", I would instantly know where he/she was coming from ideologically, at least when discussing Microsoft. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't take that person's ideas seriously. Anyway, most discussions have to do with promoting one's own opinions, rather than trying to come to some sort of intellectual epiphany after objectively considering everyone else's opinion.

By the way, it's impossible to bash Microsoft because every negative thing that's ever been written about Microsoft is true. Whoops,... I think I just lost my credibility.

Thank you. (Although I am doing my best to explain my position objectively). And I lol'd at the last part.

BLTicklemonster
April 13th, 2007, 11:54 PM
Not true. I have total faith in the tickle monster:).

Well it's because you rock, you see. :guitar:

m.musashi
April 14th, 2007, 12:08 AM
Well it's because you rock, you see. :guitar:

Finally, the recognition I deserve.:D

Hendrixski
April 14th, 2007, 02:17 AM
By the way, it's impossible to bash Microsoft because every negative thing that's ever been written about Microsoft is true. Whoops,... I think I just lost my credibility.

Nobody here is disputing that Microsoft does bad things. We're discussing how it makes us look if that's the image of ourselves that we present to the world.

Do we want to look like these guys: www.linuxsucks.org

m.musashi
April 14th, 2007, 02:46 AM
Nobody here is disputing that Microsoft does bad things. We're discussing how it makes us look if that's the image of ourselves that we present to the world.

Do we want to look like these guys: www.linuxsucks.org

Man, that's one ugly web site. Some of the posts are of rather dubious merit as well (I wanted to use some different words there but it might violate the Ubuntu code of conduct:)).

TravisNewman
April 14th, 2007, 06:13 AM
ok, is linuxsucks.org a joke? Surely...
"i running Vista with Pentium 800 and 448 mb and is running soooooo (freaking) fast and fine that beats XP and obviously the stupid, bloated, slow, old, ugly, GNU/Linux crap"
Not. Freakin. Possible.

How does it feel to know we're using stupid, bloated, slow, old, AND ugly crap? :)

RAV TUX
April 14th, 2007, 06:25 AM
Actually it does. If you showed up to a discussion dressed as a clown then nobody would take you seriously. So while your points are valid, and your experience speaks for itself, nobody cares because your username makes you look like a clown.I honestly never look at the usernames, I read the content of the post, if the content is good then I might take notice of the user name...

The username has no bearing of importance.

"never judge a book by it's cover"

:)z

M$LOL
April 14th, 2007, 10:38 AM
Poll on front page of linuxsucks.org
What is the best OS of all time?
40% 290 Linux
14% 104 BSD
4% 34 Mac OS X
2% 17 Windows 9x/ME
16% 120 Windows XP
10% 71 Windows 2000/NT
2% 16 BeOS
3% 23 Amiga OS
1% 11 VMS
3% 22 More Cheesy Poofs!

The results speak for themselves.

Sunnz
April 14th, 2007, 01:50 PM
Can anyone body tell me what the hell is this page: http://www.linuxsucks.org/topic/16249/1/Main/Linux-Sucks-Classics.html

It just has nothing to do with anything at all!!! Except maybe racist... it doesn't even make a joke about Linux users being fat or whatever...

AlwaysWrong
April 14th, 2007, 01:58 PM
I really really really really hope usernames don't affect how people perceive my opinion.


So never use apt-get, always use aptitude, Back up your /, and if at first you don't succeed, give up. No use being a damned fool about it.


Carry on.

spinflick
April 14th, 2007, 02:04 PM
I really really really really hope usernames don't affect how people perceive my opinion.


So never use apt-get, always use aptitude, Back up your /, and if at first you don't succeed, give up. No use being a damned fool about it.


Carry on.

Yep it's gotta be M$LOL ;)

M$LOL
April 14th, 2007, 02:39 PM
Can anyone body tell me what the hell is this page: http://www.linuxsucks.org/topic/16249/1/Main/Linux-Sucks-Classics.html

It just has nothing to do with anything at all!!! Except maybe racist... it doesn't even make a joke about Linux users being fat or whatever...

That would be their explanation to the world that they are mentally defective pieces of a deceased burger's brain.

BLTicklemonster
April 14th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Yep it's gotta be M$LOL ;)

:-\"

m.musashi
April 14th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Can anyone body tell me what the hell is this page: http://www.linuxsucks.org/topic/16249/1/Main/Linux-Sucks-Classics.html

It just has nothing to do with anything at all!!! Except maybe racist... it doesn't even make a joke about Linux users being fat or whatever...

That site is proof that some people should just not be allowed to use a computer.

prizrak
April 14th, 2007, 04:57 PM
For some reason M$LOL makes me think of MS SQL maybe because that's what I have to deal with at work daily :(

Sunnz
April 14th, 2007, 05:11 PM
That site is proof that some people should just not be allowed to use a computer.
Overall I think it does more good than harm for Linux though, after-all their poll has Linux as the best OS and Windows as the worst OS. And the fact a site about linuxsucks itself does suck must means something.

And as you read some of the stuff there, you'll find some satire here and there.

m.musashi
April 14th, 2007, 05:15 PM
Good points. However, I didn't spend much time reading the site. It was clear pretty quickly that they had little if anything worthwhile to say. Personally, I think they are jealous. They are stuck using windows because they don't really know much about computers other than next-next-next and are unwilling to learn. I think it's called sour grapes.

Sunnz
April 14th, 2007, 05:24 PM
The sour grapes are good in a way. I would rather have linuxsucks domain to be run by sour grape then m$ or apple!!!

M$LOL
April 14th, 2007, 07:03 PM
For some reason M$LOL makes me think of MS SQL maybe because that's what I have to deal with at work daily :(

You have my sympathy, lol. XD

fuscia
April 14th, 2007, 08:31 PM
pick a username to please yourself. trying to please others is like a three stooges attempt to bail out a rowboat.

user1397
April 15th, 2007, 03:24 AM
Lol why?

Don't you just fit perfectly in the example, "a ref who is wearing the jersey of one of the teams"?I say it is neutral, because it has 3 important nuetral parts:

1) ubuntu, which is the main topic of these forums

2) man, saying that I am a male

3) 001, represents or symbolizes how many ubuntu users there are, and how many forum users are added daily (i am just one of many)

Bezmotivnik
April 15th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Does/should your forum username affect how people perceive your opinions?

It would be nice if mine did, but I'm sure it doesn't. :-\"

xmastree
April 15th, 2007, 09:32 AM
"freaky eye guy?"Yep, that eye is kinda weird. I dunno why, but it just is.


or a big hendrix head on a small body of someone on skis?
How about Jimi's head above some crossed skis, like a skull and crossbones?

But who would listen to a christmas tree anyway?

Sunnz
April 15th, 2007, 02:21 PM
I say it is neutral, because it has 3 important nuetral parts:

1) ubuntu, which is the main topic of these forums

2) man, saying that I am a male

3) 001, represents or symbolizes how many ubuntu users there are, and how many forum users are added daily (i am just one of many)
Ubuntu can be interpreted as pro-Ubuntu.

Like, how do you think it would compared to "OSperson"? :p

BLTicklemonster
April 15th, 2007, 02:44 PM
I say it is neutral, because it has 3 important nuetral parts:

1) ubuntu, which is the main topic of these forums

2) man, saying that I am a male

3) 001, represents or symbolizes how many ubuntu users there are, and how many forum users are added daily (i am just one of many)

oh. I thought it was like replace hu- with ubuntu, then 001 was like alpha testing version.

not human; UBUNTUMAN001 in stores by Christmas!!!

matchstich
April 15th, 2007, 02:49 PM
a lot of user names and avatars on this and most every other forum i go to are just plain stupid.
in my book, that is.
and , most times, i don't take them seriously.

my handle is my cb handle, i drove 18's otr for a long time

it refers to my size. matchstick was already taken,
so, i swapped the k for a h.

i am not very tall and don't weigh much.

diskotek
April 15th, 2007, 03:05 PM
if nobody cares about nicknames, and interested with te posts, there wouldn't be any problem.
of course we firstly see the nicknames before posts, but i always keep in mind that mostly people decide in less than a minute to create a nickname, if they are not using a regular nickname for everything.

by the way, i don't understand anything when i see "M$LOL", what does LOL stands for..anyways...

these are just virtual identities i think they don't need to be taken seriouly (much). ye sthere a clue about personality but as i mentioned before that many people don't care about it.

BLTicklemonster
April 15th, 2007, 03:22 PM
if nobody cares about nicknames, and interested with te posts, there wouldn't be any problem.
of course we firstly see the nicknames before posts, but i always keep in mind that mostly people decide in less than a minute to create a nickname, if they are not using a regular nickname for everything.

by the way, i don't understand anything when i see "M$LOL", what does LOL stands for..anyways...

these are just virtual identities i think they don't need to be taken seriouly (much). ye sthere a clue about personality but as i mentioned before that many people don't care about it.

I don't pay attention to names, either.

lol = laugh out loud
rofl=roll on floor laughing
lmao=laugh my **** off
xyz=examine your zipper


make dc al codas not bombs, eh? :)

Tundro Walker
April 15th, 2007, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't quite compare forum interaction to in-person interaction. In-person, looks count a lot for an initial reaction, because a lot can be inferred by them...EG: you see a lady, you know it's a lady (well, trans-gender aside)...you know that you'll treat the person like a lady.

But online, if you scoot through enough forums, you realize a lot of really great people use stupid usernames & avatars just to be silly (perhaps to express an inner silliness that has to be suppressed in their real world life). And you can't really infer much by someone's username/avatar, because people pose as someone else all the time (a girl posing as a guy so she won't get hit on in a chat room, a guy posing as a girl so he'll be taken seriously in a female chat room, etc). So, much like folks have learned to tune-out banner ads, they've learned to not take usernames and avatars too seriously.

I don't think the user-name and icon in and of themselves express intelligence or stupidity...IE: they are not the proverbial "first impression" everyone hinges their future opinions on. What they have to say in their post is the first impression, and when reflected upon with their user-name / icon, it can simply reinforce your first opinion. For instance, let's take the ubiquitous...
USERNAME = "1337_H4X0R"
AVATAR = some uber-scary demon or suchMy first impression is...

"huh...must be another 14 yo kid who doesn't get much respect in real life, so he has to puff himself up online to make himself feel better. Poor sod. Oh well, let's see what s/he has to say."

I start reading the post. The post not only answers somebody's question, but goes into great detail how someone can avoid future mishaps for the distro they chose, tweak out the current distro for optimization, outline plans for world-peace, and get your mother-in-law to stop calling so much. My altered impression is...

"Holy cow! This person is a whiz! I better look for their posts in the future."

However, if I start reading their post, and it's something about them saying how they can't figure out how to open up the terminal...from the GUI...welll...my altered impression is...

"Great, just what the world needs...another person who thinks too highly of themselves, yet doesn't know squat to back it up."

Either way, I create a mental sign-post using the username and avatar, so I know what to look for or avoid in the future.

I think the other thing that goes along way is how the person's attitude is presented in the post. If someone with "1337_H4X0R" as their screen name comes off as a pompous know-it-all, I'll be a bit annoyed, but, hey, if they know-it-all, well, I'll probably still look for their posts in the future. But, if they come off a pompous know-it-all, but are asking stupid questions to discount such, I'll just ignore them.

In some cases, if someone is really rude or flaming to somebody, even if they know what they're talking about, I'll probably skip reading them in the future. I don't need to verbally slapped in the face by reading somebody's rude, degrading, or condescending post even if it is somewhat informative. Thankfully, folks who are informative tend not to be rude, degrading, etc, unless they're in a flame war, because they know that average folks won't take them seriously. It's like a person that uses CAPS or Exclamations!!! or over-emphasis too much...it's hard to take them seriously, because they're typing like a Chicken Little "The Sky Is Falling" maniac.

If someone comes off charming, I'd be more likely to read their posts, even more likely to respond and help. I'd be less inclined to helping someone named "1337_H4X0R", because the username in and of itself suggests they are an uber computing god. So, if they're asking for computer help, I'll just chuckle and pass them by. But if they ask politely or charmingly, I'll probably help out. After all, someone else may have the same issue, search the forums, and stumble across the help you gave that person.

So, I think how you present yourself, and what you have to say are far more important than your username and avatar.

user1397
April 15th, 2007, 06:05 PM
Ubuntu can be interpreted as pro-Ubuntu.

Like, how do you think it would compared to "OSperson"? :pwell I guess so, but then again you might be over-analyzing it, as is everybody in this thread probably. anyway, if you interpret ubuntu as pro-ubuntu, that would only be most appropriate, since these ARE the ubuntu forums.


oh. I thought it was like replace hu- with ubuntu, then 001 was like alpha testing version.

not human; UBUNTUMAN001 in stores by Christmas!!!hmm never thought of it that way, actually I still don't see how it makes sense.

But o well, I am not advocating my username as a perfect example of a username and that everyone should use it; actually, I was just saying how it is one of the rather-neutral nicks used in these forums, at least when compared to things like 1337_pwnerer or teh_pwnage or things like that.

I think we should kinda stop over-analyzing usernames, and just worry about posts themselves. And by that it doesn't mean that I do not agree with Tundro Walker's last post. Actually, I completely agree with it.

Sunnz
April 15th, 2007, 06:14 PM
well I guess so, but then again you might be over-analyzing it, as is everybody in this thread probably. anyway, if you interpret ubuntu as pro-ubuntu, that would only be most appropriate, since these ARE the ubuntu forums.


Sure, let's not over-analyze, so I am simply going to say, "bias towards main topic of the forum is still a bias towards something."

BLTicklemonster
April 15th, 2007, 08:41 PM
well I guess so, but then again you might be over-analyzing it, as is everybody in this thread probably. anyway, if you interpret ubuntu as pro-ubuntu, that would only be most appropriate, since these ARE the ubuntu forums.

hmm never thought of it that way, actually I still don't see how it makes sense.

But o well, I am not advocating my username as a perfect example of a username and that everyone should use it; actually, I was just saying how it is one of the rather-neutral nicks used in these forums, at least when compared to things like 1337_pwnerer or teh_pwnage or things like that.

I think we should kinda stop over-analyzing usernames, and just worry about posts themselves. And by that it doesn't mean that I do not agree with Tundro Walker's last post. Actually, I completely agree with it.

I like your username.

m.musashi
April 15th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Sure, let's not over-analyze, so I am simply going to say, "bias towards main topic of the forum is still a bias towards something."

I'm not sure bias is the right word to use for a username. It seems to me, most people pick a nick that has something to do with something they like. If you like Ubuntu you pick a nick with Ubuntu in it. If you like some video game you pick a nick related to a character or something. If you like chocolate chip cookies you pick a nick about cookies. That doesn't mean you are biased for or against other cookies, characters or OSs. It just means that is something you like.

Now, people who like something tend to advocate for it and against other things. The way in which they do that would indicate bias not the fact that they like one thing more than another. In this sense, bias is a verb and implies an action that unfair. To say that someone is biased based on their username (without regard to what they actually say) is no different than saying someone is more likely to act a certain way based on their race or gender.

Isn't that essentially what this thread is asking? Do we / should we stereotype people based on their usernames? Do we? Probably - we are only human. Should we? Certainly not - we are all human.

Sunnz
April 16th, 2007, 04:10 AM
If you like something then surely you would have some bias or at least higher preference for it.

I guess we take "bias" semantically different.

And of course I was talking about the neutrality of a user-name... how that neutrality affects the discussion of the poster is a different thing and is being discusses in this topic.