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Ozor Mox
April 8th, 2007, 05:56 PM
I realise this topic is one that is considered trivial by many and possibly overdone in many Linux-related circles, but I think it's an interesting subject nonetheless. The question is, what do I call the operating system I'm running?

Ubuntu?
It's the one name that encompasses the entire system and both the essential and non-essential software that comes with it. It also follows that, as free software is freely available to redistribute, Ubuntu have taken GNU, Linux, X, Gnome etc. and distributed them as a full operating system. If I say Ubuntu, people will know in detail what oparating system I'm talking about, although only those who have heard of Ubuntu will. Others may not know that it is a Linux-based distribution. Though many Linux distributions are similar, so it can also be argued that Ubuntu is the distribution of the same operating system as Gentoo, Mepis, Fedora, Mandriva and so on, just customised.

GNU/Linux?
I understand that GNU and the FSF are the main (not only) reason why all this exists, and therefore I understand why Richard Stallman wants to claim credit on it. It's good to get across the point of GNU, but I find a quick explanation if anyone asks will do just as well. Though based on contributions in lines of code, the argument becomes irrelevant to me. GNU, the Linux kernel, Xorg etc. etc. etc. all come together to form the operating system and it isn't written by one organisation or group. That's the point, so GNU/Linux is no more "right" than anything else. Furthermore, is it actually possible to determine if GNU took the Linux kernel and put it in as the last part of their operating system to create GNU, or if Linux took the GNU tools and formed the Linux operating system? You can look at it both ways, and as far as I know, neither is more correct than the other. I read a good argument also the other day. The USA borrows the language, and many customs and ideals from England, though they have many of their own too. Should we demand they call themselves England/USA? No. The only argument for this is to credit GNU, from what I see.

Linux?
This can be considered the right name in a technical sense, as some sources define the OS as the same as the kernel, therefore Linux is the OS. But other definitions say it is the kernel plus other software. It's not well defined, so again no real right answer. Stallman claims people who call it Linux are calling it the wrong thing. Arguable. He claims that people who call it Linux connect with an idea that non-free software is ok. Personally I think it is. I support FLOSS over non-free software wherever possible, but I think it's unfeasible to expect people to cripple their systems. Also what about when you go to work and use a Windows computer? Should you refuse to use it because it's non-free? My mobile phone runs a proprietary OS, my Sky box runs a proprietary system, and so on. I think FLOSS > non-free but non-free where absolutely necessary is fine. Also at a basic level, it is plainly clear for everyone to see that this is the best sounding name. Easy to remember and good. "Guh-noo-slash-Linux" is nasty. I tried to use it in a conversation to see, I just couldn't after about the third mention.

These are my thoughts on naming. I realise this isn't really an important issue, but there are underlying issues of freedom and so on that make it quite interesting and I wondered what others here think.

ComplexNumber
April 8th, 2007, 06:06 PM
i say the OS is linux(even though its only the kernel, strictly speaking), and the distribution is ubuntu.

Praxicoide
April 8th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Depends who I'm speaking to. If they know something about linux, I say my computer runs Ubuntu. If they don't, then I say it runs on Linux (which is a free operating system that blah, bah, blah).

daynah
April 8th, 2007, 06:37 PM
I don't think about it. Maybe I just use the word the other person used.

dreadlord_chris
April 8th, 2007, 06:59 PM
I say my box runs on hamsters and the Operating Superintendent is a piano player named Linus

:lolflag:

elephant007
April 8th, 2007, 08:47 PM
how about
"Ubuntu flavored Linux"
Wouldn't it be assumed by those that know about and use Linux that everything else is implied?

23meg
April 8th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Linux?
This can be considered the right name in a technical sense, as some sources define the OS as the same as the kernel, therefore Linux is the OS. But other definitions say it is the kernel plus other software. It's not well defined, so again no real right answer.

Quite the contrary; so far I've never come across a definition that says Linux is the kernel plus other software (not "the whole thing can be called Linux"). It's quite starkly defined as just the kernel, no more or less, when a definition is made. The problem comes to being in the wild jungle of PR, where practicalities have priority over descriptive correctness; people who just say "Linux" and pass are either completely unaware of the technical peculiarities behind the naming issue, or are very well aware, but don't care for the sake of being practical. If there's any middle ground, I have yet to see it.

spinflick
April 8th, 2007, 09:09 PM
I say my box runs on hamsters and the Operating Superintendent is a piano player named Linus

:lolflag:

I hope those are opensource Hamsters and not proprietary Hamsters? \\:D/

IYY
April 8th, 2007, 09:19 PM
There have been many threads about this. I usually say that Ubuntu is a good name for the OS, and then if you want to describe what kind of an OS it is, you could say it's GNU/Linux.

Bigbluecat
April 8th, 2007, 09:26 PM
Linux has become the popular term for Gnu/Linux and almost as a generic term to encompass any distro.

Linux is becoming a kind of brand. You can't fight this.

Just as Xerox was for photocopying, tipex for correction fluid, hoover for vacuum cleaner.

Sometimes this happens. It may not be stictly correct and there will always be some that object. It just is.

So for those that I think may not be too familiar I say I use Linux. For those that are I say Ubuntu.

Ozor Mox
April 9th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Quite the contrary; so far I've never come across a definition that says Linux is the kernel plus other software (not "the whole thing can be called Linux"). It's quite starkly defined as just the kernel, no more or less, when a definition is made. The problem comes to being in the wild jungle of PR, where practicalities have priority over descriptive correctness; people who just say "Linux" and pass are either completely unaware of the technical peculiarities behind the naming issue, or are very well aware, but don't care for the sake of being practical. If there's any middle ground, I have yet to see it.

I meant that the definition of an operating system is not well defined (kernel or kernel plus basic software; Linux or GNU/Linux respectively), not that the definition of Linux is not well defined. I know that Linux is the kernel, and the rest of Ubuntu (for example) is made up by GNU software amongst many others. I wouldn't say I don't care, I think GNU deserve credit, but GNU-slash-Linux is just far too awkward a name.

Hex_Mandos
April 9th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Many non-techies have heard about Linux. With them, I use Linux. With other Linux users, I call it Ubuntu.

My problem with GNU/Linux is that Linux can run without GNU. Deli Linux is an example of an almost GNU-less distro. If the FSF released their own distro, then "GNU Linux" would be a fine name, but otherwise it's just confusing (and not 100% accurate).

On the other hand, when people ask me stuff like "What company makes Linux", I start by telling them about rms and GNU. It's just fair to give them credit. I just disagree with the idea that "The kernel was just the small final part", as it's THE fundamental part of an OS.

Arisna
April 9th, 2007, 07:46 PM
In spoken communication, I vary quite a bit on this, but in writing I use "GNU/Linux" 99% of the time.

TravisNewman
April 9th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Many non-techies have heard about Linux. With them, I use Linux. With other Linux users, I call it Ubuntu.

My problem with GNU/Linux is that Linux can run without GNU. Deli Linux is an example of an almost GNU-less distro. If the FSF released their own distro, then "GNU Linux" would be a fine name, but otherwise it's just confusing (and not 100% accurate).

On the other hand, when people ask me stuff like "What company makes Linux", I start by telling them about rms and GNU. It's just fair to give them credit. I just disagree with the idea that "The kernel was just the small final part", as it's THE fundamental part of an OS.
I'm sure it still has the basic command line tools, which were developed by gnu.

SunnyRabbiera
April 9th, 2007, 08:45 PM
I usually refer to it as "Ubuntu linux"
This way i can announce it as linux while retaining the name of the distrobution.

saulgoode
April 9th, 2007, 09:39 PM
My problem with GNU/Linux is that Linux can run without GNU. Deli Linux is an example of an almost GNU-less distro. If the FSF released their own distro, then "GNU Linux" would be a fine name, but otherwise it's just confusing (and not 100% accurate).

A quick check of the first 59 packages ("A*" through "L*") listed for Deli Linux (http://delili.lens.hl-users.com/packages.txt) reveals that 43 of them are licensed under the GPL or LGPL. How can the claim be made that Deli is "almost GNU-less"? Even if you wish to view things from the standpoint of "official" GNU projects, the main development tools which create Deli (GCC, AUTOTOOLS, GLIBC, etc) are GNU tools.

forrestcupp
April 9th, 2007, 09:43 PM
My problem with GNU/Linux is that Linux can run without GNU. Deli Linux is an example of an almost GNU-less distro. If the FSF released their own distro, then "GNU Linux" would be a fine name, but otherwise it's just confusing (and not 100% accurate).

That's exactly how I feel about it. I run some proprietary stuff on my system, so calling it GNU/Linux is giving some credit to Stallman that he doesn't deserve. So when someone asks what OS I use, should I say, "GNU/GPLv2/GPLv3/BSD/EULA/Linux Proprietary Codec/Driver/Software Edition?" I like "Linux" better.

Anyway, people are too uptight about it. I like Pepsi better than Coke, but when I go to a restaurant, I order a Coke whether they serve Coke or Pepsi. Why? Because Coke is the generic name for Cola, even though it may not really be Coke. Linux is the generic name for the system we use, and it sounds kind of childish to insist that people stop calling it that.

Besides, when you speak the name GNU/Linux, it makes you sound like Gollum in Lord of the Rings.

Fascination
April 9th, 2007, 09:51 PM
As mentioned earlier, the response depends on the computer-awareness/geekyness of the person asking. If its someone who doesnt really know much about computers in general, I just say "Linux" but if its someone who does know then its "Ubuntu linux", adding the linux tag just to clarify. :)
I dont think I'd ever say "GNU" to someone, though.

Nonno Bassotto
April 9th, 2007, 11:05 PM
Usually I say Ubuntu, unless I know I'm talking to someone who's never heard about it, in which case I say Linux. I agree that adding GNU is no more fair than adding X, Mozilla or whatever, so I never use it.