ubuntuforums.org is not helpful?

[PryGuy]

Hey everybody!
I love ubuntu and respect all the forum members, but there's a thing that annoys me actually: I can't remember when I resolved problems with Ubuntu using this forum. Here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=400253) and here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=303282) and here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=249123) are examples of it. It seems to me that the only functional and helpful thread is "Ubuntu Cafe" where I get all the answers on my questions... not related to the Ubuntu Linux directly. So let's be honest people. Is ubuntuforums.org useful and was it helpful for you?

[use a name]

I've never had to ask a question here yet, so I can't say I've had all my questions answered. The problems I had were already answered.

What I do know is that quite a lot of the subforums get a huge amount of questions. In some of them, threads posted only one hour ago already go to the second page... It's easy for a thread to get lost that way. So, if your thread/question goes unanswered to the fourth page or so, just 'bump' it. ;)

[frodon]

This is a good read and explain why some thread don't get answers sometimes :
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=82471

[eentonig]

Yes, not all. But most off my problems were solved on this forum.

Maybe not directly by an answer I got on my requests. But by browsing and searching on older posts.

Never forget. This is not a commercial helpdesk, but just a bunch of interested users who share their experiences with you. Some will have a lot of experience. Others just a little.

Just to give you a clue on how I tackle my problems.

- First of all: Problem definition:
Try to formulate as precisely as possible what is your problem. And try to relate this a exact as you can to a specific piece of the distribution.
It only helps your troubleshooting if you know what is going wrong.

(PS. This is an exercise for yourself. No forum or external help is involved yet.)

- Second: Use the search function.
I doubt if I ever will be the one and only user experiencing a certain problem. So most likely, there will be older post regarding this issue. If I can find those, I wont have to wait untill someone with the correct knwoledge reads my questions.

- Third. No similar problems found?
Though luck. Maybe I didn't use the correct terms of reasch phrases. How can I rephrase my issue? Go back to step Two and try again.

- fourth: ok. Still no luck
Google to the rescue!! Maybe another forum or guide does give me the clue I need.

- fifth: Do some reading on the site of the maintainer

.....

- Last resort: Ask a question
Post your questions here. Try to be specific in your titel. Most people don't read everythin. So you'll be more likely to get someone reading your post with a tile "Xorg doesn't start after recent upgrade", then with "Ubuntu sucks!! It doesn't start"

And now be patient and follow your topic. You might have to wait a few days before someone notices it. Don't worry. But be ready to answer questions when they are placed. If you can answer those questions fast, you again improve your chances of being helped by that guy who's interested. If he doesn't see an answer to his questions in the next ...., he migth just forget about the whole problem.

[graabein]

Most have been answered before -- if I do a proper search here and on google -- and the ones I've asked myself have a pretty good history of being solved. This is a very good forum I think. Helpful and friendly and well moderated. Props to all of you!

:grin: =D>

[Engnome]

I guess it makes sense that everyone voted "All of them" or "Some of them" so far; as those who do not get help might not stick around.

[josephus]

I've found the forums generally helpful.

I think the biggest problem is that Ubuntu attracts a lot of newcomers to world of linux, and by extension a lot of the members of ubuntuforums are relatively new to linux. That means that the number of people that are able to answer the harder questions is limited. As time progresses the collective user base will have more experience and therefore will be better able to answer hard questions.

[ynnhoj]

Most have been answered before -- if I do a proper search here and on google -- and the ones I've asked myself have a pretty good history of being solved. This is a very good forum I think. Helpful and friendly and well moderated. Props to all of you!

:grin: =D>well put. unless i have a really obscure problem, i normally find my answer without having to create a new thread to ask about it.

and for people that are having difficulty finding answers on this forum: why not fire up xchat (or whatever yer favourite app is) and join #ubuntu or #ubuntuforums. there are many helpful people.

[PurplePenguin]

The 3500 other people who are on this forum right now probably disagree with you, as would the nearly 270,000 members. People wouldn't come here if it wasn't useful.

How come you only mentioned three of your threads, and not any of the other 59 that you've started, many involving problems that you've been having? Many of your problems have been successfully solved, such as Wifi not starting after reboot (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=391352), pinging and computer names (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=315488), resolution reducing to 640x480 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=249844), turning off your pc with the power button (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=248478) (you even said, "Works for me!"), and so on.

So maybe saying that UF is not helpful is a bit of a kick in the teeth to the nice people who have taken the time to help you on these and other occasions...

If you don't mind some advice, you should try putting as much detail as possible into your posts. If you are too vague, people won't know where to start to help you. For example, in one post you complained that there was a dependency that was really big and you didn't want to download it if possible. Why not name the dependency? That would get you an answer. It's like posting "I have a problem with Edgy. Period." and complaining that nobody's helping you. :) People need some info. And even then, you might have a really strange problem that nobody knows how to fix.

[ThrobbingBrain66]

Yes, not all. But most off my problems were solved on this forum.

- Last resort: Ask a question
Post your questions here. Try to be specific in your titel. Most people don't read everythin. So you'll be more likely to get someone reading your post with a tile "Xorg doesn't start after recent upgrade", then with "Ubuntu sucks!! It doesn't start"


I have to disagree there, I've seen plently of responses to to posts with titles such as "Ubuntu sucks! It doesn't start!" Whether the people reading the post will be helpful or up for some old-fashioned troll-crushing is another question all together :)

[Mateo]

Basically if your problem is common you will find help easily (possibly without even having to ask; search finds a lot). But if your problem is not common, you're probably out of luck.

[PryGuy]

I have to disagree there, I've seen plently of responses to to posts with titles such as "Ubuntu sucks! It doesn't start!" Whether the people reading the post will be helpful or up for some old-fashioned troll-crushing is another question all together :)Yes, and as you noticed I haven't started my post from the words "Ubuntu sucks" or something like that. I do believe that Ubuntu is the best end-user Linux ever made. I like it. And I do not think I'm a newbie or something. And I chose "Some of them..." variant in the poll.


Basically if your problem is common you will find help easily (possibly without even having to ask; search finds a lot). But if your problem is not common, you're probably out of luck.Yes!!! And why do I need any help if it's common. I do not ask people on forums if I believe that I can solve the problem myself, you know. So the question is: are there any skilled professionals on the forum or just us Ubuntu users.

[chewearn]

Seems like I'm the first who vote "Other" :wink:

I will like to say "All of them"; but there are a few questions/problems which did not get answered/solved. But there is no "Most of them" choice. :(

[Punker]

I voted Other (please tell)
as the second one I learned this stuff on my own ect for a few things I had problems it sux being alone out here with a new distro I'm not new to linux so it wasn't that bad for me but I like ubuntu and this forum is very helpful I was thinking in my mined the reason why some of my post was unanswered was because the reply was already in the forum I just had to search for it so this taught me how to fix my own problems I love how some spamers like to post problems and their not having problems I don't think I would help anyone with something that I had the same problem like for example sound problems

[rai4shu2]

Basically if your problem is common you will find help easily (possibly without even having to ask; search finds a lot). But if your problem is not common, you're probably out of luck.

Phrasing an uncommon question properly is very difficult, and you have to be prepared to hear out people who simply don't sympathize with your approach to a problem. That's the most frustrating part.

For example, if I were to complain about certain aspects of configuration in Worker, I'm sure most people would tell me to just use Gnome Commander or Krusader (or some other file manager). It's not very helpful to me personally, but it might be more helpful for someone less comfortable with Worker than I am.

[fuscia]

i've been helped countless times.

[aysiu]

It basically depends on what question you ask, how you ask it, and what information you give.

Read this:
To all those with zero-reply threads (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=82471)

[Perfect Storm]

As a mod I read quiet alot of threads (and I have been on this forum since the beginning), and it's very very few threads that doesn't get help.
For those threads that goes "unhelped" can be put into some categories;

1) The OP have a hard time explaining himself or responding back.
2) Bad Thread Title (everything from "linux sux!!11 to "Help I'm a newbie")
3) A very unique problem which in most cases are hardware related (malfunction).
4) Drowned before anyone can see it (It's legal to bump it after 24 hours).

As other have said before %98.00 (the last procents goes to testing of ubuntu develpment) of all questions have been answered before at this board and/or by google(tm).

[picpak]

I said some of them. Some of mine are extremely obscure, both Feisty and Edgy.

[DC@DR]

There should be an option for "Many of them", since I got many of my issues solved here, but not all of them, and definitely it's not some of them. But I voted for all of them :-)

[aysiu]

There should be an option for "Many of them", since I got many of my issues solved here, but not all of them, and definitely it's not some of them. But I voted for all of them :-)
Same here. Most of my problems were solved, but I selected "some of them," as I thought that was the closest choice.

The poll, in its very construction, is obviously biased against the forums.

By the way, I don't judge the helpfulness of these forums (or any forums) based on having either a 100% success rate in solving people's problems or less than 100% success rate. I base it mainly on the willingness to help. We have friendly people here who are patient with newcomers.

Read more about it in these threads:
Compliment to the Community (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=378829&highlight=forums)
Best Community on the Net! (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=378613&highlight=forums)
And what a community! (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=353214&highlight=forums)

I'd like to think that the Ubuntu Forums lives up to its reputation, and that reputation is having a good mix of knowledge and friendliness. When I was using Mepis, I found the people there friendly enough, but no one knew more than I did... or it seemed that way at least. Once I switched to the Ubuntu Forums, I was hooked. People could answer all beginner and intermediate questions and a few advanced questions, and people were friendly. I'd imagine if you don't want a friendly-to-newcomers forum, you could probably find some forums that could answer all your questions, even the advanced or obscure ones.

My experience has been pretty good. When I post a normal or easy question, I definitely get a response, and quickly. If I post a somewhat more difficult question, I may get a response. And when I have an obscure or unique situation, I often get no response. Is that the sign of a bad forum?

[PryGuy]

The poll, in its very construction, is obviously biased against the forums.Excuse me?! Do you want to say that I had something against the forum members? That's absolutely not true!

[aysiu]

Excuse me?! Do you want to say that I had something against the forum members? That's absolutely not true!
No, I'm saying the poll is biased against the forums, not the forum members. That's why it's phrased as "some of them" instead of "most of them," because you're already assuming that the forums are unhelpful to people.

[Lucifiel]

The forums are helpful but sometimes, you've to google up the info for yourself.

For every thread I started to ask for help, I've had many other problems I've tried to resolve myself.

Edit: Then again, this might have to do with the fact that some Ubuntu updates/programs/components are giving plenty of people a lot of trouble. Example: cupsys. It breaks a lot for so many, I wonder why Ubuntu doesn't use something else.

[PryGuy]

No, I'm saying the poll is biased against the forums, not the forum members. That's why it's phrased as "some of them" instead of "most of them," because you're already assuming that the forums are unhelpful to people.Well, i think it's hard to explain my position but I'll try... I'm probably a rare one here, but I can't say that I most of my problems solved on this forum, only some of them. I agree that this is my fault that I forgot to add the "most of them" variant in the poll. But the situation is rather common for all the forums I think; we all like to discuss how bad or insecure Vista is for instance, but it's harder for us to help each other when the question relates a software/hardware problem that is not common. So, the more specific your question on the forum is the less chances you have to get it answered or your problem solved. And that's obvious.

[aysiu]

I don't think it's the more specific the forum. I think it's the more obscure the problem.

For example, not knowing how to install basic software is a pretty common problem for new users, as software installation is a completely different process in Ubuntu (centralized package management instead of isolated setup.exe files). If you ask how to install general software, you will get responses within an hour, if not minutes.

But take a look at some of the subject headings of threads that haven't been answered in the last 20+ hours:
Gparted and DMRAID problem
Gnumeric with gda enabled
Vonage V-Phone support?
Getting "Blank DVD-R Disc" icon with any media inserted on TSSTcorpCD/DVDW TS-H552U
Via-rhine don't up

Would you be able to answer any of those? How many people do you think would? It's not a matter of willingness but a matter of knowledge. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have no clue about any of those.

[daynah]

I only had one question I didn't get answered. I went to the Feisty IRC chan (it was in the Feisty Beta) and everyone was like "That's the third time we've heard of that this week. We have no idea how to fix that." Turns out it was a bug. Of course no one knows how to fix a bug, it's a problem in Ubuntu, there's not a quick fix someone on the forums can give me, it's gotta be fixed by a dev.

So that one doesn't count folks. Every question that could have been answered, was. And there was a lot of them. Good job, folks.

Speaking of... have you guys answered your one unanswered post today? There are some lonely people on these forums.

[maxamillion]

a combination of ubuntuforums and ubuntuguide.org covers 99% of the questions a user could have .... i'm not entirely sure where someone got the idea that this is not a good place to seek help.

[AndyCooll]

I too would have liked a "most of them" option. I rarely post new threads and those that I do I have had mixed success with. However, aysiu pointed out the reason why, my problems were quite specific and difficult for an average user to answer.

Having said that, I rarely post new threads on these forums because I have no need to. And that's because these forums have provided the answer to nearly all my Ubuntu problems thanks to that wonderful button towards the top of the page with the word "Search" typed on it.


:cool:

[ubuntu-geek]

I think one mis-conception is that people want an answer right now without actually taking some time and researching it. There are 2.4million posts on this forum taking a little time and searching can probably come up with 95% of any issues.

[Billy_McBong]

every question i had was answered by a quick search

[klytu]

I would guess (but I don't have data to confirm) that this forum consists of mostly just us Ubuntu users; but I have encountered several knowledgeable professionals among us users.

Consider this obvious point: for every difficult problem, there is a first person to figure out a solution. Before that solution is worked out, no one would be able to answer. If you personally are already good at troubleshooting and figuring out solutions, I would think it's more likely that problems that you aren't able to solve might be ones where nobody's found an answer yet.

[Bezmotivnik]

Basically if your problem is common you will find help easily (possibly without even having to ask; search finds a lot). But if your problem is not common, you're probably out of luck.
That's about it.

I've gotten about 15%-20% of my Ubuntu problems solved here, which is about the same as with any other technical forum of any type on the net. Sometimes you get lucky, usually not. You post a question everyone ignores, eventually find a fix on your own, post it, then some clown posts to tell you you're all wrong. There's absolutely nothing special about this board other than the level of self-congratulation.

The people on Ubuntu forums seem to hugely overestimate the "community's" usefulness and helpfulness, which is just another aspect of the creepy, delusional fanboy boosterism that plagues Linux in general.

But...occasionally you luck out and get timely and effective help with a problem, which makes it worthwhile if you ignore all the other nonsense. Ultimately, what can you expect for free? :|

[FyreBrand]

I have had several specific questions answered concerning video configuration, the Apache-MySQL-PHP stack, and others. I spend a little time searching this forum or Googling and selecting this forum from the results.

The great thing that isn't often touted about solutions in this forum is that they are Debian and Ubuntu specific. The Debian way of thinking is a lot different than some other basic setups such as the Red Hat way of thinking for example. I learned pretty early that spending extra time and patience here prevents a lot of long term headache later.

When I can't find an adequate answer here or it seems outdated I then check linuxquestions.org, Google or the upstream developers site. For example I had a hard time finding out about some very specific Apache configuration here. So I went to the Apache site and eventually found the answers I wanted there. They even go so far as to detail some specific differences when using Apache in Debian and Ubuntu.

Overall I would rate this site A++ for helpfulness, usefulness, and providing detailed relevant information.


That's about it.

I've gotten about 15%-20% of my Ubuntu problems solved here, which is about the same as with any other technical forum of any type on the net. Sometimes you get lucky, usually not. You post a question everyone ignores, eventually find a fix on your own, post it, then some clown posts to tell you you're all wrong. There's absolutely nothing special about this board other than the level of self-congratulation.

The people on Ubuntu forums seem to hugely overestimate the "community's" usefulness and helpfulness, which is just another aspect of the creepy, delusional fanboy boosterism that plagues Linux in general.

But...occasionally you luck out and get timely and effective help with a problem, which makes it worthwhile if you ignore all the other nonsense. Ultimately, what can you expect for free? :|I see a lot more of that in Cafe and Backyard (when I'm silly enough to visit there). I do agree that the forums aren't as fun and friendly as they used to be. I do miss a lot of that feeling of safe camaraderie. It's a bit more of an acerbic RTFM feeling in general, but I find that to be much less so in the specific help forums. I mostly see it in the Cafe, Ubuntu+1, and AbsBeginner section.

edit: I voted "All of Them". When my problems have been K/Ubuntu specific I have found the answer here. When it's been Ubuntu related, but secondary application specific I've occasionally had to search elsewhere.

[koenn]

Ultimately, what can you expect for free? :|
Things money can't buy ?

[tekguy]

I search these forums every time I have a problem. So far I have been able to find other posts of the same issues with resolutions. I have resolved all of my Ubuntu related issues here.

:guitar:

[Kinslayer]

I usually check here first, even if it's a specific program I'm having issues with. Often enough, someone else had the same problem & the answer is posted. If not, I've usually got enough to get me started looking on my own. It's nice to know that the questions & answers are from people with a similar file setup, or at least close enough. All too often troubleshooting files for Linux are along the lines of "we know you screwed everything up from the jump, so we're not even going to attempt to tell you where this file should go." It's also nice that, here, both questions & answers are simple & conversational in tone.

[kragen]

I rarely post my problems on the forums, mainly because I don't have the patience to wait for replies, and also because I know that unless someone happens to know exactly what a problem is from the information I give (which is relatively unlikely, unless its a really easy question that I shouldn't be asking), then its relatively difficult for other users to diagnose other peoples problems, as they have to ask me to do something, then wait for me to get back to them to ask them how to do that, and / or do the wrong thing and forget to / paste the wrong information back.

On the other hand, the forums are a great source of information on how other people have solved problems - its quite rare that I cant find a solution simply by either copying and pasting error messages into google, or throwing a couple of key words into the forum search. Google searches usually have at least one of the matches originating from these forums, i'd say most of my problems are solved either by someone posting a solution on these forums, or by someone posting a link to a solution on these forums :)

So if you have a problem that you couldn't find the solution to on the forums, then make a post about it on here once you've solved it, so other people can benefit from it :D

[ricardisimo]

I know where you're coming from. I was going to post this same question at one point about three or four months into my Ubuntu life. But then there was a change...

There's a weird, sort of inverted-logic dynamic that takes place: the less I need help, the more likely I am to get it. Basically, the better I get at understanding my comp, programming, Linux and Ubuntu, the quicker I get usable answers to my questions.

It's not that weird, though, when you really think about it. I'm sure this is how we learned to read and write as well. You just have to put in the time. Period.

[ricardisimo]

P.S. - UbuntuForums is an EXTREMELY safe place to put in your time, and to learn the ropes. Thank you to everyone here.

[Bezmotivnik]

I do agree that the forums aren't as fun and friendly as they used to be. I do miss a lot of that feeling of safe camaraderie.
That's really a separate issue and is pretty much a matter of your own perception and mood. In any case, I couldn't care less about any of that as long as I get my data.

What we're specifically addressing in this thread is timely and accurate technical support. In the tech forums, it's just not very good -- with the possible exception of the new users forum. What I see in the other ones are a lot of unresolved problems and a lot of queries that never even receive a single reply. :(

There's a lot of information here...somewhere!...but raw searching is very rarely effective. I don't expect a detailed personal answer about stuff, but a pointer to a relevant thread or archive would be great if someone knows his way around this rat's nest better than I do.

[FuturePilot]

What I find amazing is that no one here is getting paid to help people. Just normal ordinary people that share the same passion for Ubuntu. Now that's community:guitar:

That said, I've actually solved most of my problems just by searching the forums, and anything else I've solved by asking.:KS

[igknighted]

I find that for beginners it is a great help site, but for more advanced users, it is harder to get questions answered. Not a bad thing, but the newb:expert ratio is skewed here. Go to fedoraforum.org and there are many more experts, so while the forum is not as busy, it is easier to get answers to harder questions. To each its own though, Fedora is not a distro for everyone (especially new users), so one would expect to see this type of pattern in the forums. It would be nice if there was an intermediate/advanced questions subforum though, so stuff wouldn't get as drowned out.

[23meg]

It would be nice if there was an intermediate/advanced questions subforum though, so stuff wouldn't get as drowned out.

Someone proposed it, but it got rejected.

[FuturePilot]

That would be a good idea though.

[ubuntu-geek]

Someone proposed it, but it got rejected.
Add it to the FC agenda, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda and we'll discuss it in the next meeting :)

[Bezmotivnik]

Someone proposed it, but it got rejected.
I agree. The problem here is there are too many separate areas, not too few.

[FyreBrand]

That's really a separate issue and is pretty much a matter of your own perception and mood. In any case, I couldn't care less about any of that as long as I get my data.

What we're specifically addressing in this thread is timely and accurate technical support. In the tech forums, it's just not very good -- with the possible exception of the new users forum. What I see in the other ones are a lot of unresolved problems and a lot of queries that never even receive a single reply. :(

There's a lot of information here...somewhere!...but raw searching is very rarely effective. I don't expect a detailed personal answer about stuff, but a pointer to a relevant thread or archive would be great if someone knows his way around this rat's nest better than I do.Of course it's always a matter of perspective. Personally I do care if the environment is friendly and fun. The two aren't mutually exclusive and a positive friendly environment encourages information sharing more than a rude antagonistic environment.

Being able to search effectively is also a matter of perspective. All of our discussion here is mostly anecdotal anyway.

I've found plenty of specific answers to questions of varying technical detail. When I borked installing graphical grub a repair answer and a pointer to a site to restore my MBR was provided. I think that is a fairly intermediate to advanced subject, at least to me. There are a lot of advantages to an "intermediate/advanced" section, but there are several potential drawbacks as well. Any area that isn't the beginner forum has the opportunity to provide as advanced information as a person wants.

[Bezmotivnik]

Of course it's always a matter of perspective. Personally I do care if the environment is friendly and fun. The two aren't mutually exclusive and a positive friendly environment encourages information sharing more than a rude antagonistic environment.
After watching internet discussions every day for twenty-four (24) years now, I'd say mainly it encourages a lot of useless chitchat but that's OK, I suppose, if you still like that sort of thing. Personally, I got my fill of it about fifteen years ago, when I first had the tragic realization that online "communities" were imaginary and insubstantial and that I'd blown about a decade of my life fooling around at a keyboard all the time at the expense of having genuine relationships with living humans in real life. People are still making that same mistake.

I've always strived to find discussions that were pure data, with as high a S/N ratio as possible. As my sig elsewhere says:

Data, not opinions
Help, not "humor"
Information, not conversation
Signal, not noise

So, I don't care about personalities and jejune philosophical discussions. I just want that patch, thank you, and have a nice day.


Being able to search effectively is also a matter of perspective.

It's mostly a matter of engine sophistication, and board software usually has pretty primitive search functionality, unfortunately.


There are a lot of advantages to an "intermediate/advanced" section, but there are several potential drawbacks as well. Any area that isn't the beginner forum has the opportunity to provide as advanced information as a person wants.
The primary objection is probably that if you are of intermediate skills, you should have a clearer idea of where your problem should be discussed. Ideally, there should be ONE obvious section where a problem belongs, not three or four. People still put gear questions in the cafe every day. :rolleyes:

A beginner may have no idea from whence his troubles originate which is why, presumably, there's a special section for beginner questions.

[23meg]

Add it to the FC agenda, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda and we'll discuss it in the next meeting :)

I wouldn't want to rush it; especially after reading through the discussion of the proposal, I'm not entirely convinced that it's a good idea for these forums. I'll give it some more thought and maybe write a more detailed proposal in a couple of months.

[AndyCooll]

Being able to search effectively is also a matter of perspective.


It's mostly a matter of engine sophistication, and board software usually has pretty primitive search functionality, unfortunately.

Although your post makes a number of good points, I take issue with this viewpoint. As an Information Librarian I can tell you categorically that the weakness of a search are rarely due to "engine sophistication", the weakness is almost always because an individual hasn't conducted an effective search process.

Of course because of this I have a job! Most of the searches I carry out and find results for are ones the individual could have conducted themselves and found the same results if they had given a little more thought to the search process.

:cool:

[Pidgin English]

Heh, problem numero uno in the works. I haven't found a solution to my Ubuntu's inablility to surf the web. Thread URL: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=408586

Honestly, I think it's just karma coming back to get me. I decided to jump on the bandwagon without really researching, and now I'm paying for it.

It's good to see that the majority of forum users get results though!

~Rob