This guy just doesn't get it.

[Seti]

Once again, John Dvorak has shown the smarter computer users of the world how confused he is. here (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BD0E8469A-28FC-415D-9281-C97B5FA2CA3D%7D&siteid=google) is his article describing how, now that Apple have decided to go with Intel, linux is DOOMED!!!!! (oh I'm sooo scared)
He suggests that, now that apple will be able to make OSX run on an intel chip, many will switch to MACS. I couldn't tell from his article why this would be, other than his subsequent rant about Windows and OSX being "intuitive" and linux being not so.
He even makes the laughable suggestion next that a MAC with "Intel Inside" would be an ideal candidate to install Windows?!?!
I've used OSX a bit, and would compare this to buying a BMW, tearing out the engine and replacing it with the motor from a Dodge Caravan. Oh well...
So how much of a threat do you think MAC with "Intel Inside" is to linux?

[kvidell]

Once again, John Dvorak has shown the smarter computer users of the world how confused he is. here (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BD0E8469A-28FC-415D-9281-C97B5FA2CA3D%7D&siteid=google) is his article describing how, now that Apple have decided to go with Intel, linux is DOOMED!!!!! (oh I'm sooo scared)
He suggests that, now that apple will be able to make OSX run on an intel chip, many will switch to MACS. I couldn't tell from his article why this would be, other than his subsequent rant about Windows and OSX being "intuitive" and linux being not so.
He even makes the laughable suggestion next that a MAC with "Intel Inside" would be an ideal candidate to install Windows?!?!
I've used OSX a bit, and would compare this to buying a BMW, tearing out the engine and replacing it with the motor from a Dodge Caravan. Oh well...
So how much of a threat do you think MAC with "Intel Inside" is to linux?
Almost none.
You can go right now and get a copy of Darwin compiled for x86. It's been maintained and available since OS X launched.
Ontop of that, rumour has it (and this isn't second hand) that apple's been sitting on a full copy of OS X for x86 for awhile now, but hasn't had a very good reason to unleash it on the windows world yet.
*shrugs*
I think it's a bad move, personally, but on a different level than the "threat to linux" because it quite simply isn't one.
Are ~you~ going to stop using linux just because OS X might run on the same hardware now?
I don't think anyone else here is.
Threat avoided.

My thought is that this is either going to be very good for apple, or very bad. VERY bad.
Not bad enough that they'll crumble though.... I think Microsoft can't afford to lose Apple... so if worst comes to worst, Microsoft will silently fund them until they can fidn a new chip manufacturer to keep them on their feet and keep MSFT out of the large "Monopoly" trouble they've managede to skirt and avoid so far.
- Kev

[bored2k]

Before someones starts a trolling/bashing/flaming session, just remember this type of behaviour will not be tolerated. Now if we all find a way to behave and post like grown ups even if we are not, everything will be allright.

[GTKpower]

We need to remember that Steve Jobs had no choice. IBM wants to pull out of the Apple game, and Jobs had to move or die.

Intel already had a plan for Apple, and Jobs managed to save his computer line. For the time being, at least.

Now on to a more intesting possiblity:

"You can go right now and get a copy of Darwin compiled for x86. It's been maintained and available since OS X launched."

Uh, what? Available for whom? For commercial purchase? You mean I acually have access to this? By Darwin, you obviously mean OS X, or am I misunderstanding?

[bored2k]

Darwin is the core of Mac OS X. http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

[poofyhairguy]

He even makes the laughable suggestion next that a MAC with "Intel Inside" would be an ideal candidate to install Windows?!?!

It would be great. If you were a web dev. or someone that needs to see how the three big platforms (linux, OSX, windows) work with your program then you can do it now on one machine....nice...

[GTKpower]

Darwin is the core of Mac OS X. http://developer.apple.com/darwin/


So basically, I have access to the core code, but not to a copy of OS X that can run on my current x86 PC . . . . . I assume.

[kvidell]

So basically, I have access to the core code, but not to a copy of OS X that can run on my current x86 PC . . . . . I assume.
correct. They're trying to play nice with the OSS world so they released their take on the BSD core to the public... the rest of the OS however... well.. that's not for us to play with apparently, not yet anyway.
- Kev

[tiiim]

I use OS X on my powerbook it is a gr8 system. At end of day dont diss an OS to you sit and play with it for a while.

Underneath its nice GUI is a fully fledge BSD UNIX system. At end of day Apple stepping over to Intel can only be a good thing. Stop squabling which OS one chooses to use. If it works use it. At end of day if someone is using a UNIX based system no matter what the GUI is layed on top its a start.

What people NEED to realise is there is more to Windows out there. Hey if they want to to move to a Linux varient, OS X, freebsd, netbsd, openbsd, dragon bsd etc... so be it.

OS X can only bring good into a dying windows world... already it has the technologies Longhorn wishes it has. And now Apple are releasing a new version of OS X in time for longhorn the battle is only going to get better. 2006/07 is gonna be a gr8 year(s) for OSes.

[latrine]

I don't understand why this is so laughable...

Vandepool technology is around here somewhere, and it will allow the maintenaince of two operative systems working at the same time with no interference between them... (until now I had by doubts about the usefullness of this one!!!)

I bet that by 2007/8/9/ or even 10, games will still be fully suported on Windows Longhorn2 and only a marginal slice by Linux/MaCoSX

This Mactel would form the centerpiece of my digital living any time...

AS we know MAC OSX won't be installable on every PC, at least legally... It will be supported only by Top of the line hardware, and some "exclusive" combinations fully supported by Apple, but, as usual also fully supported By MS windows...

Top of the grade hardware, top of the grade working powerhouse, top of the grade games machine...

[jobezone]

Before someones starts a trolling/bashing/flaming session, just remember this type of behaviour will not be tolerated. Now if we all find a way to behave and post like grown ups even if we are not, everything will be allright.
Perhaps you should read my signature, it's a quote from RFC3 ("(Request For Comments) A document that describes the specifications for a recommended technology. RFCs are used by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and other standards bodies. First used during the creation of the ARPAnet protocols back in the 1970s, the IETF has published more than 2500 RFCs, all of which can be looked up at www.ietf.org/rfc.html.")
published in 1969, giving guidelines on what would be aceptable in future RFC's. This is an expanded quote:

The content of a NWG note may be any thought, suggestion, etc. related to
the HOST software or other aspect of the network. Notes are encouraged to
be timely rather than polished. Philosophical positions without examples
or other specifics, specific suggestions or implementation techniques
without introductory or background explication, and explicit questions
without any attempted answers are all acceptable. The minimum length for
a NWG note is one sentence.

These standards (or lack of them) are stated explicitly for two reasons.
First, there is a tendency to view a written statement as ipso facto
authoritative, and we hope to promote the exchange and discussion of
considerably less than authoritative ideas. Second, there is a natural
hesitancy to publish something unpolished, and we hope to ease this
inhibition.

This type of Gestapo-like warnings are getting a bit irritating and anoying, even if they wouldn't affect me much. If the moderators want to lock a thread, lock it. Don't just start using the menace of locking as a means to "restrain" the discussion.

[vega44]

what is this guys email?

[jdodson]

when anyone claims "TEH DEATH OF ....." i think it is suspect. gates claimed the death of the ipod, people said mac was dead a few years ago. some have said bsd is dead, its still around, and now in mac form.

not to say gnu/linux wont die, its possible. though i think it is rather unlikely.

[Brunellus]

This type of Gestapo-like warnings are getting a bit irritating and anoying, even if they wouldn't affect me much. If the moderators want to lock a thread, lock it. Don't just start using the menace of locking as a means to "restrain" the discussion.

"Gestapo-like"?

Get over yourself. I myself welcome a friendly reminder from the mods about acceptable norms on this forum. I'd probably launch into a very quaint, 18th-century speech about the difference between "Liberty" and "Licence" here, but that would probably be wasted on you.

Hauling this back on-topic:

The only major "threat" I perceive is in potential marketshare. Cheap commodity computers running OSX may yet prove to be irresistible at the retail level. If you've already spent all the money on a computer, and have a serviceable, *nix OS on it, why should you even bother with Linux?


Cost? As many people will doubtless note, OEM preinstalled software costs the user nothing. Let's not have any pedantic debates about Microsoft Taxes or now Apple Taxes, please, because they're not relevant to the class of user which forms the bulk of the marketplace.

Oh, freedom, right. Most users really don't care about freedom or vendor independence until it's too late, anyway.

Prediction: Apple will build x86 Macs, locked-down and closed as ever. Those souls wishing to taste the goodness of x86 Apple will have to pay for new, fashionably shiny Apple hardware. That would mean that those people who presently run GNU/Linux on x86 who do not intend to upgrade or change hardware will be unaffected.

The "harm," if you can call it that, will be in the future, as the installed base of OSX users on x86 grows. If the new x86 Macs can be priced and sold competitively, we might start seeing more and more macs out in the marketplace as people who previously might have bought Windows PCs switch.

End result: More *nix users. I'm not too upset.

[tiiim]

End result: More *nix users. I'm not too upset.

i agree :)

[poofyhairguy]

not to say gnu/linux wont die, its possible. though i think it is rather unlikely.

The worst that could happen it that it could be made illegal.

[jdodson]

The worst that could happen it that it could be made illegal.

my first reaction was laughter. then i thought about it. i guess if trusted computing is touted to "save us from the compu-terrorists" then i guess it might be made illegal. i doubt that would happen though. i have some faith in governements to not do completley stupid things like that, not that they wouldnt or anything, i just think in this instance it would not happen.

*please god let it not happen* :)

[jobezone]

"Gestapo-like"?

Get over yourself. I myself welcome a friendly reminder from the mods about acceptable norms on this forum. I'd probably launch into a very quaint, 18th-century speech about the difference between "Liberty" and "Licence" here, but that would probably be wasted on you.

Each sub-forum has a notice containing some guidelines users should follow when using these forums. I think these are enough, that's what I'm saying. If you like being reminded all the time about acceptable norms, then you're just used to it? Oh, and no need to go to the 18th century for discussions on liberty (and liberalism), our young century already provides enough material for discussion.

[Brunellus]

Each sub-forum has a notice containing some guidelines users should follow when using these forums. I think these are enough, that's what I'm saying. If you like being reminded all the time about acceptable norms, then you're just used to it? Oh, and no need to go to the 18th century for discussions on liberty (and liberalism), our young century already provides enough material for discussion.
A friendly reminder to keep it clean when the tone threatens to turn uncivil is preferable to the mods' closing and deleting threads. The latter is something that I would more closely associate with the Gestapo (or perhaps the NKVD).

[KiwiNZ]

Lets keep this on topic and not divert into an aimless debate about the forum.

[Seti]

End result: More *nix users. I'm not too upset.

OSX is nice, indeed, but its every bit as proprietary as Micrsoft, Sun, SCO...etc.

The danger here is that IF Apple end up making MACs that are x86 (I doubt it) then a large segment of users out there will think this is just great, ie., they can buy cheap hardware that still has OSX with it.
I think we are forgetting the value and beauty of open-source software here.
But I don't think that is going to happen. Just like another post said, just because its Intel doesn't mean it has to be 32-bit x86. "Intel Inside" MACS will be every bit as pricey as today's models are, you'll see.
Lets wait and see what Intel have up their sleeve.

[Brunellus]

OSX is nice, indeed, but its every bit as proprietary as Micrsoft, Sun, SCO...etc.

The danger here is that IF Apple end up making MACs that are x86 (I doubt it) then a large segment of users out there will think this is just great, ie., they can buy cheap hardware that still has OSX with it.
I think we are forgetting the value and beauty of open-source software here.
But I don't think that is going to happen. Just like another post said, just because its Intel doesn't mean it has to be 32-bit x86. "Intel Inside" MACS will be every bit as pricey as today's models are, you'll see.
Lets wait and see what Intel have up their sleeve.

Beauty and value are all very nice, but they're going to compete on the marketplace along with everything else.

Given an open market, users will slowly migrate to whichever platform works for them--beauty, value, or freedom are secondary considerations. Don't get me wrong--the freedom that FOSS gives me is a great thing, but I doubt that many users will put up with an inferior platform for long, no matter how free it is.

The great thing: GNU/Linux is changing, growing, and improving all the time. So I'm still hopeful.

[Nu-Buntu]

OSX is very nice. However, current Mac users shell out $129 for each upgrade. I don't think I will jump on this bandwagon.

Besides, I think its not a foregone conclusion that OSX will ever run on off-the-shelf hardware. Apple could put proprietary ROMs, firmware or other such into the Intel Macintosh that would be required to run OSX. Of course, this could be hacked, but then, that is piracy isn't it?