Thank You Richard Stallman

[xavier_r]

For starting the GNU project... that has lead us to the OPEN FRONTIERS today

I admire that guy's visions and values and I also share his birth-date with mine :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman

May HIS blessings be upon you... so that one day GNU = GNU's UNIX
:KS :D

[moeFinley]

=D> =d>

[JAPrufrock]

:guitar: =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[WalmartSniperLX]

Yup. Thanks to that guy we have GNU/Linux and the GPL :D :guitar: Now just wondering, if there was no GNU, where would the Linux kernel belong to? (meaning what os would it be working in, Minix maybe?)

[JLB]

Yup. Thanks to that guy we have GNU/Linux and the GPL :D :guitar: Now just wondering, if there was no GNU, where would the Linux kernel belong to?

BSD licensed probably

[spinflick]

The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.

Che Guevara

[23meg]

Now just wondering, if there was no GNU, where would the Linux kernel belong to? (meaning what os would it be working in, Minix maybe?)

An assortment of proprietary UNIXes, probably.

[BuffaloX]

Oh I thought it was spelled Steel-man, aka man of steel.
Anyways Stallman is a REAL hero.

[BuffaloX]

uups double post.

[BuffaloX]

The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.

Che Guevara

So it's a sour apple?

[mostwanted]

He was in Copenhagen yesterday and I was supposed to see him, registered for it and everything, but I missed it because I got up too late (it was in the morning) :( makes me sad.

[Ozor Mox]

Indeed, what he has done for free software and his ideals and values are very admirable. I sincerely hope that all the good work that has been done so far will continue and free-as-in-freedom operating systems will continue to be available.

How close is the GNU Hurd to being released anyway? Won't that mean that there will be another free operating system to choose from besides Linux and BSD?

[DoctorMO]

Er, Hurd is a kernel, so it would just be BSD kernel vs Linux vs Solaris kernel vs Hurd. quite an interesting mix.

[Ozor Mox]

Oh I know it's a kernel, but I assumed it would be combined with all the other GNU stuff to form the GNU operating system as originally planned by GNU, instead of using the Linux kernel with all of the apparent conflicts of interest.

[Nils Olav]

Of course no one thanks Michael Faraday.[-(

[spinflick]

So it's a sour apple?

Sorry I dont see the connection, enlighten me :p

[BuffaloX]

Of course no one thanks Michael Faraday.[-(

Who?
The electricity guy?


Sorry I dont see the connection, enlighten me :p

If you need to make the apple fall, it may not be ripe, if it isn't ripe it's sour....
Or did I miss something?

[spinflick]

Or did I miss something?

Only the entire message of the quote.

[BuffaloX]

Only the entire message of the quote.

You used an analogy, and a very bad one IMO.
Also I don't like quotes of murderers.

[spinflick]

well that's your opinion so I will say no more

[JAPrufrock]

You used an analogy, and a very bad one IMO.
Also I don't like quotes of murderers.

Get real! In many Latin American countries he's a martyr. He was an idealist and a revolutionary. To call him a murderer is doing an injustice to all the idealists and revolutionaries of the past who were willing to die for what they believed in.

[BuffaloX]

Get real! In many Latin American countries he's a martyr. He was an idealist and a revolutionary. To call him a murderer is doing an injustice to all the idealists and revolutionaries of the past who were willing to die for what they believed in.

If I could, I would delete my previous posts, not because I have changed my mind, but because I have ruined a potentially good thread.
Che Guevara was a murderer it's a fact, he killed hes own people on mere suspicions.
Being willing to die is quite another thing than being willing to kill.
Che Guevara was not willing to die, he surrendered whining about how he was more valuable alive than dead. He killed without mercy, but when he faced the same fate, he was a coward.
Sorry, choose your heroes with greater care...

[Teg_Navanis]

Ouch, some serious off-topic flames seem inevitable.

Trying to get back to topic. From what I've seen so far, Richard Stallman seems so mad about the fact that someone else gets all the credit without having done all the work (GNU/Linux debate anyone?) that I'm hesitant to just give praise to him.

Rather, I'll just give a big thanks to whoever contributed in any way to the free software / open source movement so far!

[samjh]

Yup. Thanks to that guy we have GNU/Linux and the GPL :D :guitar: Now just wondering, if there was no GNU, where would the Linux kernel belong to? (meaning what os would it be working in, Minix maybe?)

Probably BSD or an offshoot of Solaris.

[deepwave]

From what I've seen so far, Richard Stallman seems so mad about the fact that someone else gets all the credit without having done all the work (GNU/Linux debate anyone?) that I'm hesitant to just give praise to him.

Rather, I'll just give a big thanks to whoever contributed in any way to the free software / open source movement so far!

I am thankful he formalized the idea of free software, and helped develop the necessary GNU toolkits (gcc and other) that make Linux such a success. But like Teg_Navanis said, I like to send out a big thank you to the entire open source community for developing, documenting, testing and promoting not only for Linux, but for the hundreds of FOSS programs out there. Thanks for proving that good software comes not from throwing money at it, but rather hard work and dedication.

[cowlip]

.

[JAPrufrock]

If I could, I would delete my previous posts, not because I have changed my mind, but because I have ruined a potentially good thread.
Che Guevara was a murderer it's a fact, he killed hes own people on mere suspicions.
Being willing to die is quite another thing than being willing to kill.
Che Guevara was not willing to die, he surrendered whining about how he was more valuable alive than dead. He killed without mercy, but when he faced the same fate, he was a coward.
Sorry, choose your heroes with greater care...

I'm leaving this thread now so it won't be backyarded. But before I go, two things: I did not say that Che was my hero? He is the hero, however, of millions of Latinos. I also suggest that before you express such a strong opinion about something or someone that you do a little more research and reading. There's a lot of information on Guevara, including his own diary. There is also an excellent movie that's worth seeing called "The Motorcycle Diaries".

[Teg_Navanis]

Well, if we're going to start talking about ego......LINUx...LINUs Torvalds...get my drift?

That's what I meant with somebody else getting all the credit ;)

[MattSMiddleton]

Well, if we're going to start talking about ego......LINUx...LINUs Torvalds...get my drift? The GNU/Linux thing, among others, acknowledges that Linux is just a kernel and with GNU is a complete operating system, and also the philospophy of free software- GNU- vs open source- Linux. So, let's not; and I'm sorry for making ths more off topic in the process.

Thank you RMS for everything you've done. GNU and the GPL probably led to some of the most significant advances in computer software in the 90s and it's wonderful to have an adversary to DRM and Untrustwothy Computing in the world today...

Yea, geez, naming something you started after yourself, what a egotistical SOB. I guess that goes for the thousands of companies that are named from there founder. I know I know, that the Kernel isn't the WHOLE OS, but John Cougar Mellencamp doesn't play all the instruments on his CD, but the CD is still in his name because he is the core of the band.

[deanlinkous]

actually Linus didn't name it...


Richard Stallman seems so mad about the fact that someone else gets all the credit without having done all the work (GNU/Linux debate anyone?) that I'm hesitant to just give praise to him.
So one package SHOULD get all the credit even though that ONE package would not provide functionality/ability? Or should the whole *system* get credit since it makes up a usable system?

[EdThaSlayer]

If we didn't have that free software hippie, Richard Stallman, Linux wouldn't be the same. :)

[mykalreborn]

i've allways liked this guy. he is just authentic... and what he managed to start is something beyond everyone ever thought: a real physical proof that the virtues this society considers outdated, forgotten or just naive (like honesty, kindness, selfness) are in fact the ones who make the world go round.

[Teg_Navanis]

So one package SHOULD get all the credit even though that ONE package would not provide functionality/ability? Or should the whole *system* get credit since it makes up a usable system?

Well, I explicitly said that the whole system (or community, as I phrased it) should get credit.

I guess I should have known better than to allude to the naming debate. I do not share the assumption that names are inherently meaningful. Had Linux (or GNU/Linux) been known by the name "Pear" from the beginning, it would now still be recognizable as a free software idyll or a system for elitist and geeky smugs, depending on your perspective. If you think "Pear" is too stupid a name to successfully build a brand, just look at Apple... ;)
From this point of view, I find the naming only secondary and the power struggle over it tiresome, I'd rather just call the whole thing "Pear" instead of thinking about whether the name credits someone too little or too much.

[DoctorMO]

You could give him credit for GPL, without which the Linux kernel would have been simply taken and would be dead or worse right now.

I find all our technology gods have their faults, they are after all only human. and to expect that one good thing is mitigated by a fault is to ignore the real results of those people who could stand up and say they are doing their their way.

[ice60]

i like linux, and i'm thankful for it, but if i'm honest i don't like RMS at all. i don't like Che Guevara either.

[DoctorMO]

but if i'm honest i don't like RMS at all

A personal reason or you don't like what he has done?

Even technical people like Linus and Sir Tim have problems dealing with the media attention they get and tend to become arragant to an extent. like hobbits with the ring of lords.

[karellen]

I don't know much about Mr Stallman...but I tend to like his ideals and goals, even if he goes maybe too far sometimes

[deepwave]

A personal reason or you don't like what he has done?

Even technical people like Linus and Sir Tim have problems dealing with the media attention they get and tend to become arragant to an extent. like hobbits with the ring of lords.

Well... RMS does behave sometimes VERY, VERY wierdly... as in what the hell are you doing to my soup?!? Get your beard out of it!!! Better yet, out! Out!

You get my drift.

[yabbadabbadont]

Well... RMS does behave sometimes VERY, VERY wierdly... as in what the hell are you doing to my soup?!? Get your beard out of it!!! Better yet, out! Out!

You get my drift.

Then there was that whole, toe chewing incident... :roll:

[ice60]

A personal reason or you don't like what he has done?

i don't agree with any of his views, in some interviews i sometimes find what he says offensive, like comparing the US government to the nazis. i can understand why people dislike Bush, but to say living in the US now is comparable to living in Germany in the 30s/40s is wrong. i think it shows no respected to the people that were murdered during the nazi's time.

i believe in choice, something Stallman doesn't. he thinks all software should be free, i love free software, but if someone wants to make a living for his family by writting software and selling binaries then good for him, Stallman thinks that person shouldn't make that living, i think free software and proprietary software should coexist.

he supports the green party, it's the first thing on his home page - http://www.stallman.org/ if they ever had any power they would destroy that country's economy through their policies. etc, etc.

i know a lot of people love RMS, and i don't want to make myself unpopular, but i just think he gets most things totally wrong!

EDIT. what's this suppose to mean from his home page?

Get even for 9/11: support gay marriage!
it sounds like he thinks 9/11 was committed by the US government, it is things like that which make me say what i said in my first post -
if i'm honest i don't like RMS at all.

[Starchild]

EDIT. what's this suppose to mean from his home page?

it sounds like he thinks 9/11 was committed by the US government, it is things like that which make me say what i said in my first post -

Had you bothered to look a bit down that statement you would've found his explanation, which reads:


Get even for 9/11: support gay marriage!

People will say, "That makes no sense--what does one have to do with the other?" Which provides a chance to explain:

We don't know who the perpetrators are--perhaps Muslim fanatics, perhaps Christian fanatics (supporters of the Bush regime), perhaps both. It is tricky to get even with people when you can't identify them. How can we do it in this case?

Both of those groups hate gays and oppose gay rights. Thus, supporting gay marriage offers us a way we can be sure to make the perpetrators miserable, whoever they were.

[DoctorMO]

Toe chewing and aspangers

Perhaps it's just me but I can cope very well with weird people who don't pick up on social queues and in most cases don't care about social queues. being unsocial isn't the same as being anti-social and I find I can communicate with a wide varitiy of people not just the "normal" ones.


I don't agree with any of his views, in some interviews i sometimes find what he says offensive, like comparing the US government to the nazis. i can understand why people dislike Bush, but to say living in the US now is comparable to living in Germany in the 30s/40s is wrong. i think it shows no respected to the people that were murdered during the nazi's time.

There was probably some specific comparison he had in mind, not the killing of millions of people in concentration and death camps but perhaps the demise of social and civil liberties and the extream right wing agenda that is damaging the world and it's people in so many ways; the last thing we want is to treat the nazies as a special holy case that must never be compared to in any way.


i believe in choice, something Stallman doesn't. he thinks all software should be free, i love free software, but if someone wants to make a living for his family by writting software and selling binaries then good for him, Stallman thinks that person shouldn't make that living, i think free software and proprietary software should coexist.

I believe in the choice of another develop to make free software versions and utterly destroy the living of the first developer. choice is wonderful but so is a good social system and no amount of 'the rights of business' rhetoric will ever convince me that a business has more rights than the freedom and living of people; this is in part because businesses have turned out not to serve people very well at all.


he supports the green party, it's the first thing on his home page - http://www.stallman.org/ if they ever had any power they would destroy that country's economy through their policies. etc, etc.

The USA (if that is what you mean) the economy is destroyed; no party needs to do it. the country is almost totally owned by the middle east and china and the only thing that keeps the place from collapsing completely is the dream of the American dollar and the oil credit card. if the world was really capitalistic they would sell oil in euros to make more money than they do in Dollars, but look where that got a certain middle east country.


i know a lot of people love RMS, and i don't want to make myself unpopular, but i just think he gets most things totally wrong!

You don't agree with his politics, fine. at least thank him for using the fruits of his extremism. you've got to admit there is a difference between people who talk big and people like RMS that push at it for years and never change their stance.

This might be getting a bit OT sorry about that.

[ice60]

Starchild, you sound upset. anyway, maybe stallman is unsure about "who the perpetrators are" but just about everyone else knows.

[deanlinkous]

Then there was that whole, toe chewing incident... :roll:
at least it was HIS toes....

[ice60]

DoctorMO, i don't like RMS, i don't like anything about him, i can't put it any other way.

i wasn't going to post in this thread because i know some people wouldn't like what i said, but i don't see why i shouldn't give my opinion, so i kept it short and to the point. i think we should just leave it there and agree to disagree.

[DoctorMO]

DoctorMO, i don't like RMS, i don't like anything about him, i can't put it any other way.

You don't have to explain yourself to me, I'm just curious if you had any rationale.


i wasn't going to post in this thread because i know some people wouldn't like what i said, but i don't see why i shouldn't give my opinion, so i kept it short and to the point. i think we should just leave it there and agree to disagree.

Your entitled to your opinion, but sometimes opinions are based on misleading or inaccurate information. the only way we have in this world of telling weather anything has any truth is to confirm the data with other people. triangulate the rationale and formulate an answer which reflects our social policies.

But in this case since your social contracts are very different from mine and your data is more of a bias than a rationale to me we can't compare results in any meaningful way. normally I'd say agreeing to disagree isn't helpful to further the debate but in this case I will have to accept that as I don't understand you at all and I have a feeling that you don't really understand socialists and democratics (not the party) so lets go our own way and prey we never meet each other in the same country.

[mykalreborn]

oh my god i'm so embarrased. never mind ](*,) :oops:

[deanlinkous]

matilda? who?

[Starchild]

Starchild, you sound upset. anyway, maybe stallman is unsure about "who the perpetrators are" but just about everyone else knows.

Not in the least. I'm just serious. I was trying to correct your misrepresentation of somebody else's views in his absence. The point is he doesn't just blame it on the US governemnt as you seemed to believe. He says we don't know for sure, and he's right.

[ice60]

so lets go our own way and prey we never meet each other in the same country.
i've lived in London all my life, infact i'm still here. maybe we are neighbours http://planetsmilies.net/shocked-smiley-9490.gif

[Somenoob]

Richard Stallman doesn't wait, he hacks.

[jakslev]

i don't agree with any of his views, in some interviews i sometimes find what he says offensive, like comparing the US government to the nazis. i can understand why people dislike Bush, but to say living in the US now is comparable to living in Germany in the 30s/40s is wrong. i think it shows no respected to the people that were murdered during the nazi's time.

i believe in choice, something Stallman doesn't. he thinks all software should be free, i love free software, but if someone wants to make a living for his family by writting software and selling binaries then good for him, Stallman thinks that person shouldn't make that living, i think free software and proprietary software should coexist.

he supports the green party, it's the first thing on his home page - http://www.stallman.org/ if they ever had any power they would destroy that country's economy through their policies. etc, etc.

i know a lot of people love RMS, and i don't want to make myself unpopular, but i just think he gets most things totally wrong!

EDIT. what's this suppose to mean from his home page?

it sounds like he thinks 9/11 was committed by the US government, it is things like that which make me say what i said in my first post -


Free Software does NOT mean that it can't cost money. It just means that it has to be free as in liberty. It needs to be open to allow developers and hackers (not a negative word) to change and improve the software.

As for his anti-USA rant, I find that highly entertaining - and one should be careful not to be so respectful that one does not dare to think outside of the box.

[Quadunit404]

Hello thread necromancy.