The future of the Kernel?

[nick.inspiron6400]

Hey,

I was thinking about if Linux could overtake Microsoft and become #1. And the thought came to mind, about when Linus Torvalds dies. Who will write the kernel? Would that be the end of Linux? What will happen? Does anyone know?

Nick,

[v8YKxgHe]

I'm sure Linus has made a backup of him self for problems like this!

Nah, the Kernel is developed by hundres and thousands of people around the planet, Linus is not the only one coding it, besides Linus is only 37, he's got years a head of him yet!

[nick.inspiron6400]

Why would anyone do some good work for free? Linus started it, he enjoys it. I would not spend hours developing a kernel for nothing.

I think Linux will die eventully. Microsoft will have 100%.

[v8YKxgHe]

Well I'm glad thousands of people have, also a lot of them do get paid. Linux is a big project supported by many large companies, they do get money.



I think Linux will die eventully. Microsoft will have 100%.
Don't troll :) Or is this April fools? I don't like April Fools, never know if to trust someone or not! :) :)

[WalmartSniperLX]

lol o yeah APRIL FOOLS haha :D

Anyways actually I dont think Linux will die EVER. MS and windows will die out. Corporations die out. Linux is backed by MANY corps and a HUGE free community. Really. People work on linux because they love it, and usually you get quality results by doing something for the love of it, not as so when you're being paid. Its the same with everything in life. Even if you love your job because it involves what you love doing most, sometimes things just arent as much fun and inspiring if you do it on your own time, without pay, and freely. :guitar:

[nick.inspiron6400]

Open source and Free software is a very nice idea, but will never work.

Microsoft Windows XP and Vista and a good 3 years ahead of any Linux/Unix operating system there is. Properitary will always win, Microsoft has the money to promote and keep developing software. And the developers get paid.

I think for a graduate developer, Windows is a better choice.

Think Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds are not billionares. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are???

Nick.

P.S

What companies support the kernel developement? And what company produces the kernel? Dell? IBM? HP? RedHat? Novell???

[WalmartSniperLX]

Why would anyone do some good work for free? Linus started it, he enjoys it. I would not spend hours developing a kernel for nothing.

I think Linux will die eventully. Microsoft will have 100%.


Open source and Free software is a very nice idea, but will never work.

Microsoft Windows XP and Vista and a good 3 years ahead of any Linux/Unix operating system there is. Properitary will always win, Microsoft has the money to promote and keep developing software. And the developers get paid.

I think for a graduate developer, Windows is a better choice.

Think Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds are not billionares. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are???

Nick.

P.S

What companies support the kernel developement? And what company produces the kernel? Dell? IBM? HP? RedHat? Novell???

Windows ahead by 3 years of Linux? I think its the other way around. Vista is just catching up to linux. And all those companies are supporters, as well as many more, community groups, personal developers, etc.

Is this an april fools joke? :lolflag:

[nick.inspiron6400]

This is no joke, this is the truth and the future.

Also what companie actually produces the kernel?

[v8YKxgHe]

This is no joke, this is the truth and the future.
Do you have factually evidence to back up you're claim?


Also what companie actually produces the kernel?
There is no one company developing it, which is why Linux can never die. It doesn't belong to anyone, it doesn't exist in one place - it's spread around the world and no one can destroy it. If all the developers suddenly stopped working on Linux, someone out there would take the last source-code and start working on it again.

I still say this is April Fools :P

[WalmartSniperLX]

This is no joke, this is the truth and the future.

Also what companie actually produces the kernel?

No companies that I know of. Its NOT PROPRIETARY; anyone can work on it. All I know is that the kernel is being worked on by stray hackers across the globe, which is better than a large corporation. The licenses for the linux kernel allow anyone to work on it. Whilst if it were being developed by one large company (IE Microsoft) chances are higher that it will die out. Heres why.

With the GPL lisences, people can work/modify/redistribute the linux kernel. So if many people who worked on it at one point give up, youll have a whole new set of people coming in with their experience and ideas to work on it. Microsoft is LIMITED to its employees.

So not only does Linux have a never ending chain of development, it allows more people to share their ideas and skills, resulting in a superior OS.

Btw win XP is no where near advanced compare to Linux. Google it. WinXP has MANY limitations that the Linux kernel does not. A lot of these include hardware compatibility as well.

[nick.inspiron6400]

For the last time THIS IS NOT A APRIL'S FOOLS JOKE!

Why would someone create the kernel of a operating system for free? Or for some coupons?? I know the kernel is written in C++ but that is a difficult language to master.

Nick.

P.S

How do people get involved with the kernel?

[WalmartSniperLX]

For the last time THIS IS NOT A APRIL'S FOOLS JOKE!

Why would someone create the kernel of a operating system for free? Or for some coupons?? I know the kernel is written in C++ but that is a difficult language to master.

Nick.

P.S

How do people get involved with the kernel?

Linus wanted to replace his Minix kernel so he wouldnt have any limits when working on unix. So he made a clone (different code, works the same).

As far as how people get involved, not sure. I bet google can answer that :P It shouldnt be that hard to get on the kernel development since it belongs to no one. :P you can download the development code at various sites as well. Then you can submit any debugging info you aquired or even submit a fix that you made youself. I know that much :D

[nick.inspiron6400]

I have a Dell Inspiron 6400, everything works out of the box with Windows XP.

Ubuntu 6.10/6.06

Wireless- needs network manager, doesn't work with WPA
Fans- needs fan controls
Power management- needs to be set-up.

I have some high hopes for 7.04.

Now does that explain anything??? 96% Windows 2% Mac OS 2% Linux/Unix

[WalmartSniperLX]

I have a Dell Inspiron 6400, everything works out of the box with Windows XP.

Ubuntu 6.10/6.06

Wireless- needs network manager, doesn't work with WPA
Fans- needs fan controls
Power management- needs to be set-up.

I have some high hopes for 7.04.

Now does that explain anything??? 96% Windows 2% Mac OS 2% Linux/Unix

well you're right. MS has direct support from everyone. They are the big check in the market that pays. Hardware developers make their hardware with windows in mind, and windows is extremely user friendly. Edgy is supposed to fix that, but just because Linux is different and things dont work out of the box doesnt mean its insuperior or that it will die soon...

After I learned how to set up my wireless adaptor in various computers I no longer see it as a difficult task. To me now, Linux is easier than windows. Its just what you're used to. Every OS has its learning curve.

Btw NOTHING works out of the box. EVERYTHING needs DRIVERS. For a notebook, it comes with drivers on the recovery disc (and hdd on purchase), so that takes care of it. If you bought a laptop with nothing on it and installed Windows XP from a normal Windows XP Disc, your wireless card wont work :P Same thing applies for power settings and fan settings.

[bonzodog]

You really don't get the point of this do you?

Linux is developed for the love of it. It's not about money, it's about something akin to moral, ethics, and and a want for the world to see that there is something better than MS out there, oh, and by the way, it cannot be stopped.

There *is* a core kernel team that Linus Torvalds heads up, but he is only the last point decision maker about the kernel code.

Linux is essentially only the kernel. Everything else is X, and the the GNU toolset.

The GNU toolset is made up of hundreds of individual programs, built by people collaboratively all over the internet.

Think of the GPL as a kind of Viral License, because, at its core, thats what it is. It's a virus of sorts. Once a piece of software is labelled with the GPL, the license cannot be changed at all for any reason.

All GPL code is Open Source, and once the code is published, anyone can pick up that code, and continue it's development in any way they see fit, as long as they then do the same, and give the code away with the program. For this reason, most projects start out as raw source code files lodged on a server like sourceforge.net, where anyone can go in and download them.

There are people who know that with the right investment, a lot of money can be made in Open Source charging for support, and services. These people are Google, Novell, RedHat, Sun Microsystems, IBM..etc.

Oh, and by the way, Windows, as an OS is Dying. That is as good as official. Microsoft are getting out of the OS market for good, and diversifying into other areas of the tech industry, centred around the XBox, and an all-in-one home media centre. This is another one of the reasons that MS struck the deal with Novell, they are ensuring the future of their corporate clients, by slowly persuading people that for their servers, Linux and Open Source are the way to go.

Think about it.

Bill gates is Leaving MS, and has um, just got rid of all his shares in MS, and is no longer interested in it's future. The uber-nerd himself said only a couple of months ago, that Open Source *is* the future of development, and in future most software would be developed in that model. This doesn't mean people aren't going to be paid for it. They are being paid right now, by Sun, Novell IBM, and Canonical.

[gruffy-06]

How about making everything independent from the Linux kernel? Maybe an OS which allows you to switch to a different Linux kernel without rebooting?

(Oh and by the way, we say "free software" instead of "open source", since certain words can easily be exploited)

[GeneralZod]

For the last time THIS IS NOT A APRIL'S FOOLS JOKE!


If I find out I typed this up for nothing, I'm going to be very upset ;)



Hey,

I was thinking about if Linux could overtake Microsoft and become #1. And the thought came to mind, about when Linus Torvalds dies. Who will write the kernel? Would that be the end of Linux? What will happen? Does anyone know?


No, someone (likely Andrew Morton) would step up to take his place. Contributions come from thousands of people around the globe, and I wouldn't be surprised if Linus probably spends more time deciding which patches to merge in than writing code :)


Why would anyone do some good work for free? Linus started it, he enjoys it.

a) Not everybody contributor works for free: a substantial amount of the work done is paid for by commercial companies:

http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/

b) "Why would anyone do some good work for free?"

I don't quite get the point of this question. It sounds like you think finding someone who would do good work for free is impossible, which is of course completely contradicted by reality. But anyway - enjoyment of programming; satisfaction of making a project they believe in better; ego, when their work becomes recognised.



I would not spend hours developing a kernel for nothing.

Plainly, not everyone in the world shares similar sentiments :)



I think Linux will die eventully.

I don't - how on Earth can it? It's open source, so the only way of killing it is not only to wipe out the current generation of developers who work on it, but all subsequent generations who would otherwise work on it.



Microsoft will have 100%.


And what happens to Apple? Last I heard they (Shock!) paid their developers! :o



Open source and Free software is a very nice idea, but will never work.

It's working now.



Microsoft Windows XP and Vista and a good 3 years ahead of any Linux/Unix operating system there is.

How do you arrive at this number?



Properitary will always win, Microsoft has the money to promote and keep developing software. And the developers get paid.


As a business, they'll only keep developing $X while it is profitable. Once it is not, they'll drop it as soon as they can and, because it's closed source, no one will be able to continue work on it.

Also, as noted above, most Linux developers get paid.


I think for a graduate developer, Windows is a better choice.

What does this mean, and why do you think it?


Think Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds are not billionares. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are???

I don't know about Stallman, but Linus is (or was) a multi-millionaire:

http://www.bellevuelinux.org/linus.html

Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Ubuntu, is also rolling in $$$.

Anyway, what is the relevance, here?


Why would someone create the kernel of a operating system for free? Or for some coupons??

If you gotta ask, you'll never know ;) Again, why do you keep asking this? If you doubt that people will write a kernel for free, then you're wrong, as it's already happened!



I know the kernel is written in C++ but that is a difficult language to master.

C, actually. C is much simpler than C++, and you don't need to "master" it to make a meaningful contribution.



How do people get involved with the kernel?


Generally, by sending a patch for a bug or new feature to a mailing list.

[bonzodog]

How about making everything independent from the Linux kernel? Maybe an OS which allows you to switch to a different Linux kernel without rebooting?

(Oh and by the way, we say "free software" instead of "open source", since certain words can easily be exploited)


That is already possible. Like I said, think of the separate kernel, then, on top of that, the GNU toolset, then, Bash and the shell, then, on top of that, X, and on top of that, Gnome.

Someone has made it so that the kernel can be hot-swapped in memory, but the system developed is not reliable.

If windows has a kernel upgrade, it has to be rebooted to get the new kernel into memory userspace.

[WalmartSniperLX]

I know this may be an unimportant peice of info for this conversation, but GNU/Linux isn't the only open source os out there. Theres GNU/Hurd, Free/Open/Net BSD, Solaris (I think its got some GNU in it, correct me if im wrong), and maybe a few more I haven't mentioned. Also, not to mention how many Linux Distros that are out there. Its proof that there are A LOT of developers working on Open Source. Some developers work for free, some get paid. The developers of the Ubuntu distro get paid by Canonical.

[nick.inspiron6400]

Thank you for your replies.

I now have to say i am most likely wrong.

I will continue using Linux, and trying to develop applications. And maybe one day, i might write a part of the kernel.

Being 13 has a new door of possibilites. ( yes i am probably the youngset Linux user there is )

How could Microsoft suddenly die?

Nick.

P.S

I dont remember Bill Gates saying open-source is the way forward.

[WalmartSniperLX]

Thank you for your replies.

I now have to say i am most likely wrong.

I will continue using Linux, and trying to develop applications. And maybe one day, i might write a part of the kernel.

Being 13 has a new door of possibilites. ( yes i am probably the youngset Linux user there is )

How could Microsoft suddenly die?

Nick.

P.S

I dont remember Bill Gates saying open-source is the way forward.

I've seen many young linux users around your age. This was a good conversation regardless to who was right or wrong. Think of it as a bunch of useful information given to you freely by the Linux community, another greatness of Free Software; Linux. Hope you enjoy your stay ;)

And of course Bill Gates wont say such a thing, hes trying to make a living and hold a position in the market :P

[BoyOfDestiny]

Linux isn't written by one person, or by all volunteers.
Plenty work for large companies...
http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/

Why write and work on Free Software?

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

Read it, check the philosophy section. Linux is licensed under the GPLv2.

What other incentives besides money: Scratching an itch. It's not crazy that some like Free and open source, or just plain freeware.

Interested in contributing to the kernel?
http://www.kernel.org/

As for MS being ahead... They are way ahead of Linux in this arena:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Disclaimer, I think Microsoft is conniving company, and I believe Windows is not top dog due to merit. Try googling
MS Iowa Comes
MS killed beOS
grokdoc EOOXML
I could go on with more and more links.

Anyway, hope this information I've posted is useful. Here is my prediction.

Linux and the apps that run with it, will continue to improve. If it dies, there is open solaris, BSDs, etc... All those gnu tools and MANY Free and Open apps already run on several architectures and platforms.

it is nice for home users and big corps to not have to go on hands and knees and pray for a vendor to implement a feature, provide a driver, or fix a bug. With Free Software, you can fix it, pay someone to fix it, contribute bug reports, new features etc... Everyone benefits, except those who want to stop that sort of thing...They would prefer people continue shelling out sums of cash for a forced upgrades of software and hardware. Ok so maybe Vista took out support for .doc files from Wordpad for some other reason... I've been wrong before.

End of rant.

P.S. My Dell is running Feisty Beta. I can't comment about XP, since the first thing I did was wipe it clean, but everything works, 3d, wireless, power management. It really depends on the hardware, the more support from vendors (even if it's just specs and not free drivers) the more Linux will just work. Give it time.

EDIT: Wow I took a long time to write this, and Zod posted the same link I did...

[bonzodog]

You aren't the youngest member we have - there is someone who is only 11 on here.

Microsoft, like many other large corporations, is only as strong as it's stockholders, and it's share price.

It currently makes the greater percentage of its money from the OEM deals with PC hardware manufacturers, to bundle windows with all new PC hardware. Linux is currently on it's way to achieving this goal (can anyone say 'Dell'?).

But, It's shares have done nothing but tumbled on the back of all the DoJ cases, and the EU Anti-trust cases, and a lot of people have started selling their shares, driving the price ever lower. Now Bill gates is leaving, and people do not really have the confidence in Steve Ballmer to manage the company effectively.
Bill is a nerd and software developer, through and through.
Steve is a manager and CEO. I have more coding ability than he does!

[WalmartSniperLX]

Also you can google the BSD lisence. It allows re-lisencing of software. Not the same as GNU/Linux but another possiblity to prevent a death to opensource or proprietary, since proprietary foundations can turn toward opensource BSD and make something off of that. And that could lead to partnerships, and I am really tired I cannot think. Sorry everyone. I think im off to bed. :lolflag:

[insane_alien]

Microsoft won't just disappear overnight. it'll take a few years of fizzling.

also, a lot of people develop the kernel as a hobby. just like building model aeroplanes or playing games. its an interesting challenge.

i hada trawl through the code the other day but it was all beyond me. the programs i make are usually very simple designed to take an input file of data that can be a few megabytes in size perform a few calculations on the data and output a bunch of different numbers into a spreadsheet and make a couple of pretty graphs. far from being a OS. but i can see why people are attracted to it.

[Pugwash]

I have a Dell Inspiron 6400, everything works out of the box with Windows XP.

Ubuntu 6.10/6.06

Wireless- needs network manager, doesn't work with WPA
Fans- needs fan controls
Power management- needs to be set-up.

I have some high hopes for 7.04.



I have the same laptop and I didn't have to do anything with fans or power management when I installed dapper. Worked absolutely fine.

[insane_alien]

WPA support is excellent in 7.04 i could never get it working before but it works out of the box on my thinkpad now. its looking awesome but i don't recommend upgrading until the 19th when its fully released.

[cowlip]

.