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View Full Version : Vista almost as good as Linux



m.musashi
March 26th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Warning. The below is not a professional review. It is supposed to be a joke. I think a few people took me seriously. If you have read the many "Linux isn't ready for the desktop" threads then you should get the joke. I suppose I should have posted it in a windows forum for maximum effect but I don't belong to any windows forums:).

I have been using computers for over 20 years - Linux, Mac and Windows. I am not a programmer or system admin but I consider myself a power user. Given my vast experience with computers I thought I'd check out the new OS from MS - Vista. You might have heard of it.

I had a chance to install and play with Vista a bit over the weekend and I have to give MS credit for an OS that is almost ready for the desktop. The install took about an hour. Much shorter than with XP and now only twice as long as Ubuntu. Also, all my hardware was detected - graphics card, sound and networking - which with XP required a separate install. Very nice MS. Ubuntu of course has done this for over a year now, if not longer. The aero interface is also quite nice. It still lacks a true 3d feel like beryl but it's getting there.

There have been some improvements in security as well - although it seems to be just a reactionary solution rather than a true fix. Vista now requires you to "approve" installations and changes to the system. In this way, users will have to approve malicious code before it can exploit flaws in the OS. However, it doesn't require the use of a password and it pops up so often that users will simply get in the habit of clicking continue or disabling it. Yes, you can actually disable the security. And why do I have to approve changing the colors of the desktop? Oh well, after only 6 years of development I suppose we can't expect everything to be perfect.

A few other flaws still exist as well. For example, MS has unfortunately chosen to stay with the problematic NTFS file system. Fragmentation is still not going to be resolved. Maybe in about 6 years this will be fixed. The themes, while much improved are inconsistent. If I change my colors to red, for example, the log in and out screen is still a default blue/green. Ubuntu at least lets me change all aspects and create an overall feeling of a seamless OS. It is also asking me to activate my OS. I'm not quite sure what that's all about. It seems to be working fine so I don't quite know what it is I have to activate. I'll have to check into this some more.

MS has also chosen to continue to focus on the OS only rather than releasing a completely usable distribution. A fresh install is fairly useless. I can watch DVDs and play music but any serious work will require the installation of additional software. There is no graphics manipulation tool (although there is what I consider a toy to play with photos). There is also no office suite so business users may want to reconsider using Vista in a real production environment. I have also been unable to find a way to add additional software. There is an add/remove application tool but it seems broken. It will remove but not add. I cannot find any software or even the repos. Huge over site, in my opinion, for a company wanting to be taken seriously.

Well, this is my appraisal after using Vista for a few days. While it's quite nice, there are still a few issues that I think MS has to address before Vista is truly ready for the desktop. I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I'm just trying to give an honest review and help the MS team out.

Somenoob
March 26th, 2007, 05:21 PM
I feel somewhat sorry for MS, they made enormous efforts with vista and all you hear about is how flawed it is.

Teg_Navanis
March 26th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Enjoyable read. Sweet alternative universe... :)

kvonb
March 26th, 2007, 05:25 PM
hahaha, onya Musashi, a good read :)

m.musashi
March 26th, 2007, 05:29 PM
You have got to watch the security commercial on the mac site.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

It may be on TV but I don't watch commercials so I don't know. The ending is hilarious.

Sunnz
March 26th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Ahh man are you serious? You are actually expecting a package manager for Windows?

Choad
March 26th, 2007, 05:35 PM
i thought you were for real to begin with.

if only.

floke
March 26th, 2007, 05:38 PM
F!**^$$%g Microsofties. Always going on about how good their OS is. Just because Lennox is free, has no viruses, comes complete with software and extensive repos, is completely configurable, and has great 3-D graphics. You think its a superior product. Well Microsoft spent years working on Vasta, and it costs loads so it must be really good. Plus, it won't allow me to break the law by copying music and DVD's that I own, so Microshift are well looking after their customers. You and your 30 million-small circle of Linarx geeks should go back to enjoying yourselves and leave the rest of us to get on with what we really like doing: updating our virus checkers.

Sunnz
March 26th, 2007, 05:48 PM
lol maybe you guys can write a site like badlinux.org, a parody of badvista.org. :p

fuscia
March 26th, 2007, 05:55 PM
it certainly looks better than xp.

m.musashi
March 26th, 2007, 06:38 PM
it certainly looks better than xp.

The stuff I stepped on in the park looks better than XP.

BarfBag
March 26th, 2007, 07:28 PM
I had to install and configure Vista on a friend's PC. It's about as ready for the desktop as XP. The new interface is ugly, clunky and annoying. When you turn it off, there's absolutely no difference between it and XP.

The security is a joke. Renaming a file was a 6 step process. And there was a type delay on a fresh installation (on a PC that came with it).

The system got messed up, and I had to reformat a week later.

matthekc
March 26th, 2007, 08:15 PM
think they can pull out of the nose dive with what was it vienna. they better they have mac pushing down on them, linux pulling the rug out from under them, and reactos giving them a sideways shove

Dual Cortex
March 26th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Just when I was thinking "wow, in the 2 days I've again been active in the forums, I haven't seen an MS bashing POST!".

insane_alien
March 26th, 2007, 08:34 PM
I feel somewhat sorry for MS, they made enormous efforts with vista and all you hear about is how flawed it is.

no, you feel sorry for the little kid getting his finger painting critisized by an art critic.

when the largest software company in the world produces a crap bit of software and tries to tout it to geeks as a must have you don't say 'well, they tried really hard' they should be better than this.

lyceum
March 26th, 2007, 08:50 PM
I'm just trying to give an honest review and help the MS team out.

I am sure they will read your post ;)

Here is an e-mail I sent to someone asking about Vista, my 2 cents.

Getting it installed was not that bad. I am use to 20 minutes with Ubuntu (may main OS) and being able to surf the web or pay games while I wait. (I do that a lot, as I sell Ubuntu PCs). Once installed, loading my programs was like trying to get into a club in New York on a Saturday night. I think it is great that they took the Linux route with the administration mode, but they did not do it very wisely.

The real trouble came when I was finished. For some reason the 50 gig partition I gave Vista was filled up and once you have less than 15 gigs it slows to a crawl, like a fish swimming through jello. I finally figure out that it had made copies of itself. They were labeled "old Windows". I caught it as soon as I saw it, as the laptop did not have Windows on it before. I took XP off as soon as I bought it. It took forever to delete the "old Windows" data.

As for how does it work? The Microsoft programs, like Office and FrontPage are fine. Firefox is good. Open office is a little slower than normal. But, my Photo Impact Pro and other products were VERY slow and buggy. I got GIMP and Blender working okay, but took them off later for space. Aptana was a mess, I decided to just stick with Dreamweaver on this machine. Flash seems to have some bugs, I have not had time to really work with it yet though.

Good things: Networking is awesome. That is the only thing I am really happy with (which is why it is on my laptop). They did a good job of making it pretty, but the 3D stuff is not really that impressive. I don't really need to see my desktop through the windows, but it in nice seeing a picture of what I have open when I toggle. Security is better, but I fear it is more of a false sense of security.

Bad things:
They seemed to have ripped off a Linux desktop environment called KDE for their file manger. I do not like KDE, so that makes me not too happy with Vista. The new start menu is a bit if a mess that takes some getting use to. I just put all of my icon on the desktop rather than bother with it. Only the really expensive software seems to work well, or the Microsoft software. This OS does not seem to work well with artists (which is a shame, as it look like it was made for them) or gamers (who would also want to upgrade ASAP).

So in a nut shell, Vista is a cross between Linux/FOSS for administration and file system, Mac for looks and Windows ME for stability. They should have charged $100-$150 for it, worked out the bugs and then let it out for the price they are asking now. Here is the funny part, 6 or 8 months ago I was one of the beta testers. I wrote up a review after using it for 2 or 3 months. I really liked it then, I was not in love or anything, but it worked better. Now, I wish I had stuck to the beta. It gave me less problems!

m.musashi
March 26th, 2007, 09:00 PM
Just when I was thinking "wow, in the 2 days I've again been active in the forums, I haven't seen an MS bashing POST!".
Hmmm. I wasn't trying to bash. It was an attempt at humor. Judging by your post count you have been here a while. I'm sure you have read all the "Ubuntu isn't ready for the desktop" threads. I was just having a bit of fun.

floke
March 26th, 2007, 09:14 PM
There you go again. FUN?? Leave fun to people with Macs. They can set up a website and edit some photos you know. I saw it in the advert. Who needs games with so much FUN FUN FUN! You should be so lucky.

lyceum
March 27th, 2007, 03:15 AM
There you go again. FUN?? Leave fun to people with Macs. They can set up a website and edit some photos you know. I saw it in the advert. Who needs games with so much FUN FUN FUN! You should be so lucky.

:lol:

Sunnz
March 27th, 2007, 05:17 AM
Not to mention they can capture a family vacation of whatever... :D

FoolsGold
March 27th, 2007, 05:33 AM
Bah, Vista's almost as good as my shiny-new toilet, you don't see me writing a thread about it. :)

m.musashi
March 27th, 2007, 05:55 AM
You should.

FoolsGold
March 27th, 2007, 05:59 AM
You should.

Unfortunately the necessary graphical analogies I'd have to make between Vista and my toilet would breach the forums rules. :popcorn:

aktiwers
March 27th, 2007, 07:33 AM
haha Thanks!!

floke
March 27th, 2007, 09:42 AM
Unfortunately the necessary graphical analogies I'd have to make between Vista and my toilet would breach the forums rules. :popcorn:

They're both crap and sloppy.

cunawarit
March 27th, 2007, 09:57 AM
Ahh man are you serious? You are actually expecting a package manager for Windows?

It WOULD be nice! At least for the servers, I REALLY like Windows 2003 Server, but the fact that you are expected to install totally untested stuff on a server is shocking.

But anyway, yeah, I've had a few plays with Vista and it does seem fantastic! I can't wait for Windows Server 2007 :)

siimo
March 27th, 2007, 10:10 AM
MS has also chosen to continue to focus on the OS only rather than releasing a completely usable distribution. A fresh install is fairly useless. I can watch DVDs and play music but any serious work will require the installation of additional software. There is no graphics manipulation tool (although there is what I consider a toy to play with photos). There is also no office suite so business users may want to reconsider using Vista in a real production environment. I have also been unable to find a way to add additional software. There is an add/remove application tool but it seems broken. It will remove but not add. I cannot find any software or even the repos. Huge over site, in my opinion, for a company wanting to be taken seriously.

You make comments like that and expect us to believe you are being serious? European Union has already been sueing their asses for including windows media player and IE alone!! so how do you expect them to bundle more software and not get sued for it?

This is one disadvantage of being a 95% monopoly. People complain cause it doesn't include enough software to do all their tasks and if they do then other companies complain they are being kicked out of business cause MS is including competing software in default install. I guess its a lose - lose situation huh!

:shock:

beefcurry
March 27th, 2007, 10:46 AM
For you Vista might have not been much better except for the slight increase in driver capability and eye candy but for someone that types Chinese or Japanese there are huge leaps in technology. Typing in Chinese or any other far eastern language is alot better and looks alot better. Chinese is alot about the interaction of words and just just square blocks and Vista really does alot to solve this. Foreign Text Inputting in Ubuntu is, not increadibelly easy, and I hope It does improve in the future if it hopes to take on the Chinese Market.

lalakis85
March 27th, 2007, 10:51 AM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

floke
March 27th, 2007, 11:12 AM
I thought China already had its own official version of Linux?

http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/02/21/2211255

nsleiman
March 27th, 2007, 12:02 PM
what is "vista" ? is it a linux distro ? i wonder why that term is so famous :p (kidding)

m.musashi
March 27th, 2007, 04:10 PM
You make comments like that and expect us to believe you are being serious? European Union has already been sueing their asses for including windows media player and IE alone!! so how do you expect them to bundle more software and not get sued for it?

This is one disadvantage of being a 95% monopoly. People complain cause it doesn't include enough software to do all their tasks and if they do then other companies complain they are being kicked out of business cause MS is including competing software in default install. I guess its a lose - lose situation huh!

:shock:

Actually, no, I don't expect you to believe I was being serious. It was my take on the "Linux isn't ready for the desktop" type threads that pop up here quite often. It was an apparently unsuccessful attempt at humor.


For you Vista might have not been much better except for the slight increase in driver capability and eye candy but for someone that types Chinese or Japanese there are huge leaps in technology. Typing in Chinese or any other far eastern language is alot better and looks alot better. Chinese is alot about the interaction of words and just just square blocks and Vista really does alot to solve this. Foreign Text Inputting in Ubuntu is, not increadibelly easy, and I hope It does improve in the future if it hopes to take on the Chinese Market.

We use Japanese on Ubuntu quite often and it seems just fine. The fonts could be improved but there isn't any problem in writing. I don't know about Chinese.


what is "vista" ? is it a linux distro ? i wonder why that term is so famous :p (kidding)

Maybe I should have wrote (kidding) at the end of my original post too.:popcorn:

What the heck is that popcorn thing supposed to mean anyway???

Sunnz
March 27th, 2007, 04:28 PM
It WOULD be nice! At least for the servers, I REALLY like Windows 2003 Server, but the fact that you are expected to install totally untested stuff on a server is shocking.

But anyway, yeah, I've had a few plays with Vista and it does seem fantastic! I can't wait for Windows Server 2007 :)
But that's just not the Windows way!!!

You are suppose to Google whatever software you need and choose one out of the many one from the search!!!!

You either try them all out or just randomly pick one, then before you actually open anything you'll update your antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-adware, anti-trojan, and then scan all your downloaded programs with your your updated antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-adware, anti-trojan, and they will catch most of the malware that you don't want.

Then you just try out all of the stuff you have downloaded - it is all about choices. :D

BrokeBody
March 27th, 2007, 04:52 PM
It is also asking me to activate my OS. I'm not quite sure what that's all about. It seems to be working fine so I don't quite know what it is I have to activate. I'll have to check into this some more.


That means that you'll have to report your copy of Vista within 30 days or you will be unable to use it after that period. If it doesn't pass the activation, that means that you are using a pirated copy of Vista, which is illegal.



MS has also chosen to continue to focus on the OS only rather than releasing a completely usable distribution.


Logical, indeed. :roll:



I have also been unable to find a way to add additional software. There is an add/remove application tool but it seems broken. It will remove but not add. Huge over site, in my opinion, for a company wanting to be taken seriously.


I just can't believe what you said! :lol: Add/Remove tool is for adding and removing Windows components onlly! The routine of how to install some software on Vista is IDENTICAL as it is on XP! :roll:



I cannot find any software or even the repos.


:shock: This is really unbelievable! Well AFCOURSE you can't, because there aren't any!



I have been using computers for over 20 years - Linux, Mac and Windows. I am not a programmer or system admin but I consider myself a power user.


You are either lying, or...

You are not a "power user" (whatever that means :roll: ) dude! :lolflag:

I had such a great time reading all these ********! :popcorn:

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

Sunnz
March 27th, 2007, 05:08 PM
Nuff said, see attached.

use a name
March 27th, 2007, 05:38 PM
I just can't believe what you said! :lol: Add/Remove tool is for adding and removing Windows components onlly! The routine of how to install some software on Vista is IDENTICAL as it is on XP! :roll:


I've tried very hard to remove all windows stuff that way, but it would not let me. :confused: Just reinstall or repair or something.

Quillz
March 27th, 2007, 05:45 PM
I think Vista is a very good operating system in it's own right. It seems to get a lot of unfair bashing because it's perceived as "borrowing" features from Linux and Mac OS X. But frankly, even if it is, how is this bad? All it does is make Windows better, which causes Linux and Mac OS X to become better. It's competition... You make your product similar to the other guy's and in the end, everyone is forced to innovate. Notice that back in 2001, nothing even came close to Windows XP. Thus, IE6 sat on all the installs for five years unaltered. It finally wasn't until 2006 that Microsoft realized that other browsers were beating out IE6, and now we have v7, which is again comparable to browsers like Firefox and Opera.

Overall, when I'm working on Windows, I only want to use Vista, due to the major advancements it's made. Sure, there is Aero Glass, but the majority of the improvements to Vista are under the hood with the kernel. (Note that with XP, there was a lot more visual change in comparison to the 9x series.) Also, UAC is not nearly as annoying make it out to be. It's no different than a security prompt you get on any Unix-like OS... That is to say, you see it when installing and uninstalling software, or trying to run unsigned drivers, but you'll never get it changing your desktop wallpaper or default software applications.

m.musashi
March 27th, 2007, 10:39 PM
You are either lying, or...

You are not a "power user" (whatever that means :roll: ) dude! :lolflag:

I had such a great time reading all these ********! :popcorn:
Well, glad you enjoyed it. That was my overall intent. Some seem to think I was serious. I tried to make it sound serious but be over-the-top enough so no one would actually think I was.

As for lying. I wasn't. My first computer was an Apple II back in the early 80s. I even wrote some basic programs but never stayed with it. Now I can't write code at all but I'm a fairly fluent user.


I think Vista is a very good operating system in it's own right. It seems to get a lot of unfair bashing because it's perceived as "borrowing" features from Linux and Mac OS X. But frankly, even if it is, how is this bad? All it does is make Windows better, which causes Linux and Mac OS X to become better. It's competition... You make your product similar to the other guy's and in the end, everyone is forced to innovate. Notice that back in 2001, nothing even came close to Windows XP. Thus, IE6 sat on all the installs for five years unaltered. It finally wasn't until 2006 that Microsoft realized that other browsers were beating out IE6, and now we have v7, which is again comparable to browsers like Firefox and Opera.

Overall, when I'm working on Windows, I only want to use Vista, due to the major advancements it's made. Sure, there is Aero Glass, but the majority of the improvements to Vista are under the hood with the kernel. (Note that with XP, there was a lot more visual change in comparison to the 9x series.) Also, UAC is not nearly as annoying make it out to be. It's no different than a security prompt you get on any Unix-like OS... That is to say, you see it when installing and uninstalling software, or trying to run unsigned drivers, but you'll never get it changing your desktop wallpaper or default software applications.

I agree. I'd rather use Vista than XP if I have to use windows (and I do at work but still XP there). It is an upgrade in many respects. Although after 6 years seems like they could have done a bit more. I also don't know how all the DRM stuff is going to play out but it seems Vista is even less "free" than XP. In the end, I don't think this is going to be a good thing. There are too many politicians and movie and music execs that are utter idiots when it comes to computers and the internet. Instead of looking for ways to capitalize on the technology they are trying to prevent or hinder it. It won't work. Instead of worrying about teens sharing music, release CDs or DVDs with added content and let them share the tunes. Just think how much more worthwhile a CD purchase would be if you got lyrics that you can watch on TV, videos, guitar tabs. The options are endless. MS seems to bowing to these people. They were innovators (in a way) now they are just being pushed around by the people that are not even their main customers.

Quillz
March 27th, 2007, 10:45 PM
Well, glad you enjoyed it. That was my overall intent. Some seem to think I was serious. I tried to make it sound serious but be over-the-top enough so no one would actually think I was.

As for lying. I wasn't. My first computer was an Apple II back in the early 80s. I even wrote some basic programs but never stayed with it. Now I can't write code at all but I'm a fairly fluent user.



I agree. I'd rather use Vista than XP if I have to use windows (and I do at work but still XP there). It is an upgrade in many respects. Although after 6 years seems like they could have done a bit more. I also don't know how all the DRM stuff is going to play out but it seems Vista is even less "free" than XP. In the end, I don't think this is going to be a good thing. There are too many politicians and movie and music execs that are utter idiots when it comes to computers and the internet. Instead of looking for ways to capitalize on the technology they are trying to prevent or hinder it. It won't work. Instead of worrying about teens sharing music, release CDs or DVDs with added content and let them share the tunes. Just think how much more worthwhile a CD purchase would be if you got lyrics that you can watch on TV, videos, guitar tabs. The options are endless. MS seems to bowing to these people. They were innovators (in a way) now they are just being pushed around by the people that are not even their main customers.
Yup, after hearing the Internet is "a series of tubes" and what not, I'm convinced our elected officials shouldn't be the same ones regulating the Internet.

old_geekster
March 27th, 2007, 10:57 PM
"LOL" -- Thanks for the great review of Vista. I am sure that it will give you everything for which you paid --- through-the-knows!

I went from Win95 to XP with nothing in between. Think about how much money I saved. I am certain that I will not be paying anything for Vista, since it sounds, at this point, like it will only have a two year life cycle. We all know how that goes --- don't we.

My next step will be to purchase a console and use Linux as my primary OS. This will be after XP no longer will play the games that I want to play.

qamelian
March 27th, 2007, 11:27 PM
As for lying. I wasn't. My first computer was an Apple II back in the early 80s. I even wrote some basic programs but never stayed with it. Now I can't write code at all but I'm a fairly fluent user.
Well, you gave me some great chuckles. Your take on Vista was a riot. Best laughs I had all day!

kvonb
March 28th, 2007, 02:20 AM
Hey Mus, maybe they'll send you a free laptop for your excellent review, just like they did with all those bloggers :lolflag:.

m.musashi
March 28th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Hey Mus, maybe they'll send you a free laptop for your excellent review, just like they did with all those bloggers :lolflag:.

Yeah. I wrote a very unbiased review after spending nearly 2 whole days with Vista. Clearly I deserve a free laptop too. (/sarcasm/ just in case anyone can't hear it the way I'm writing it). Any idea how I go about claiming that? I wonder if they'll send me one sans OS so I can install Ubuntu.:)

gruffy-06
March 31st, 2007, 10:23 PM
Nothing will ever be as good as Linux, apart from reality, of course.

Vista needs 512MB RAM to run properly. I've seen Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 run fine with 64MB RAM!

Vista uses up lots of disk space (over 8GB by default). Ubuntu installs lots by default, only using up 2GB.

Even though you can avoid Vista's DRM by buying Home Basic N or Business N, you're still paying Microscoff (http://users.vnet.net/shanek/microscoff.html) to actually implement DRM in the first place.

I feel like an idiot having wasted £100 on a downgrade. Should have stayed with Linux in the first place.