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jdong
June 4th, 2005, 09:23 PM
I, for one, am sick with how irresponsibly the OSS community names their projects.

Knoppix Security Tools Distribution (STD)... hmm....
Knoppix 4.0: There's going to be a Lite version that's like 3.9: on one CD. Anyone take a stab at the DVD edition's name? Maxi.



Now, I (and most of you guys) are mature enough not to think too much about these names, but it becomes an issue when I have to carry around LiveCD's that have STD and Maxi written all over them. Since I'm a guy, that makes it slightly worse, too... ;)


Ok, I'm done.

vega44
June 4th, 2005, 09:50 PM
I, for one, am sick with how irresponsibly the OSS community names their projects.

Knoppix Security Tools Distribution (STD)... hmm....
Knoppix 4.0: There's going to be a Lite version that's like 3.9: on one CD. Anyone take a stab at the DVD edition's name? Maxi.



Now, I (and most of you guys) are mature enough not to think too much about these names, but it becomes an issue when I have to carry around LiveCD's that have STD and Maxi written all over them. Since I'm a guy, that makes it slightly worse, too... ;)


Ok, I'm done.

STD = Sexually Transmitted Disease. WTF!

TravisNewman
June 4th, 2005, 09:51 PM
*LOL*

Reminds me of Pulaski Middle School a short trip away-- their cheerleaders have the letters PMS written across their uniforms.

But yeah, and furthermore, OSS names in general aren't very descriptive or easy to remember.

GTKpower
June 4th, 2005, 09:56 PM
kPogre, Kexi, Knoda, Muine, amaroK, Gaim, Ksirtet.

Compare the above with:

iPhoto, iLife, iTunes, MediaPlayer, Excel, iChat, Messenger, Rhythmbox, Thunderbird, Firefox, Sunbird.

Linux needs some kind of normalization (read: not retarded-sounding) with names. Putting a "k" in front of a KDE app just to differentiate it and make it "uniquely KDE" is inexcusable.

GNOME is also guilty of this, but not to the same degeree as KDE. "Muine", for instance, not only makes absolutely no sense to me as a label, but also sounds terrible when pronounced. How about gPlayer? I thought of that in 2 seconds. Nothing very special, but it certainly doesn't sound like a cat meowing in pain.

Let's call a spade a spade. These names might not matter for Linux users, but Linux is not only about "us." It's about the computing industry as a whole and carving out a chunk of it for GNOME. It's about GNOME vs. Windows vs. OS X. It is ALWAYS about that. I'm not big fan of GNOME, either. It refers to a small dwarf that sits in your garden. Compare this, with an eye to marketing, to OS X - Tiger, Panther, Jaguar, etc.

"Longhorn" sounds very tacky, but it sells itself because it is Windows, ergo, no one cares.

An application is just as much a product as the OS itself. If you want product recognition, the product must have a cool, catchy name. Everyone knows iTunes. Ditto for iChat. Excel? A household name. Photoshop? Sounds very professional. Imagine if they were called kexi or kopete.

I'd be ashamed to say to someone when asked "so what database app are you running"

Me: "kPogre."

What ????

lol.

jerome bettis
June 4th, 2005, 10:01 PM
^ agreed, but i think gnome is actually an acronym for something.

sard
June 4th, 2005, 10:05 PM
I like the recursive acronyms myself \\:D/

Lovechild
June 4th, 2005, 10:09 PM
*LOL*

Reminds me of Pulaski Middle School a short trip away-- their cheerleaders have the letters PMS written across their uniforms.


How's that false advertisement.. I would say that's a fully suitable label.

RastaMahata
June 4th, 2005, 10:16 PM
^ agreed, but i think gnome is actually an acronym for something.
Gnu Networ Object Model Environment

Woah, my quey (|<) isnt woring! (DAMNIT)

Jenda
June 4th, 2005, 10:17 PM
I actually looove the way Linux stuff is called. Beginning with Unix*, derived from Multics*, then GNU*, Gnome, Wine, C Shell (a double pun!), Bourne & Bourne again shells, etc...

*pre-Linux terms.

GTKpower
June 4th, 2005, 10:18 PM
^ agreed, but i think gnome is actually an acronym for something.


It is. I don't recall precisely what it stands for at the moment, but it's still silly.

If you want a "G" in the name, or want to have some reference to GNU, and since we're running x-server, why not call our favourite desktop environment:

GX.

GX 2 (2.10)

GX 3 (instead of GNOME 3, when version 3 is released.) THAT sounds very cool. Very marketable.

poofyhairguy
June 4th, 2005, 10:18 PM
Now, I (and most of you guys) are mature enough not to think too much about these names, but it becomes an issue when I have to carry around LiveCD's that have STD and Maxi written all over them. Since I'm a guy, that makes it slightly worse, too... ;)


Then don't. Its your sharpie. I would put

"Kanotix large"

and

"Kanotix extra large"

Their, your masculinity is returned.

skoal
June 4th, 2005, 10:30 PM
irresponsible? indeed.

While working on some icons and pictures, I did a google on "GIMP mask" so I could figure out how to add a layer and remove some transparency to a picture.

Hmmm...not quiiiiiiiiite the results I had expected.

But, in all fairness to Linux developers, they did introduce me to a new type of protection I hadn't considered before while riding my motorcycle. The leather mask and red ball works pretty good at deflecting crickets bouncing off my face and flying into my mouth at 60mph. Hell, just the other day at the stoplight, some kid thought I was in the WWE and asked me for an autograph. I signed it, "El luchador". Eh, why not?

My life's never been better. I'm riding high in style and owe it all to one sweet little Linux acronym.

GTKpower
June 4th, 2005, 10:56 PM
irresponsible? indeed.

While working on some icons and pictures, I did a google on "GIMP mask" so I could figure out how to add a layer and remove some transparency to a picture.

Hmmm...not quiiiiiiiiite the results I had expected.

But, in all fairness to Linux developers, they did introduce me to a new type of protection I hadn't considered before while riding my motorcycle. The leather mask and red ball works pretty good at deflecting crickets bouncing off my face and flying into my mouth at 60mph. Hell, just the other day at the stoplight, some kid thought I was in the WWE and asked me for an autograph. I signed it, "El luchador". Eh, why not?

My life's never been better. I'm riding high in style and owe it all to one sweet little Linux acronym.


lol.

I googled it and found the "item" to which you are referring.

Not bad. It seems to be on sale, too.

Sweet.



\\:D/

poofyhairguy
June 4th, 2005, 11:12 PM
Hell, just the other day at the stoplight, some kid thought I was in the WWE and asked me for an autograph. I signed it, "El luchador". Eh, why not?


http://www.house8.com/weblog/archives/andrew/images/el_guapo_wallpaper.jpg

bored2k
June 4th, 2005, 11:16 PM
lol

skoal
June 5th, 2005, 12:09 AM
lmao. oh man, what a picture. That's some good shiznitt...

I dunno where u got that picture from poofy, but it looks like "el luchador" is pretty steamed that the hospital forgot to clip the green security bracelet off his wrist before they released him. I bet he's thinking his tan line is now fubar.

Man, that shot reminds me of Lou Ferigno as the Incredible Hulk. priceless...

GrumpySimon
June 5th, 2005, 12:17 AM
Personally, I think that the names are part of the charm. They're much more memorable and differentiate the linux apps. from Apple's i* range, and Microsofts excessively dull names ('Word'? 'Media Player'? etc).

My mum remembers that her browser is called Firefox, but the one she used before was "Internet thingy".

But yeah, seriously the g* and k* naming convention has got to go.

Edit: I wonder if that guy has to use tanning lotion to get rid of the mask tan lines on his head?

--Simon

poofyhairguy
June 5th, 2005, 12:42 AM
I dunno where u got that picture from poofy,

Google image search for "GIMP mask" just like you said. I'm am learning the ways of the google image force through my sensei b2k...

bored2k
June 5th, 2005, 12:55 AM
Google image search for "GIMP mask" just like you said. I'm am learning the ways of the google image force through my sensei b2k...


http://img92.echo.cx/img92/7165/positive105xl.jpg

;)

P.S. - I've been savng that 1 for a specIal occasion ;) lol

Ironi
June 5th, 2005, 01:15 AM
Uh... Back on topic (sorry):

I don't care what projects are renamed as long as my favorite media player is still named after my favorite drug. ;)

kassetra
June 5th, 2005, 01:40 AM
Now, I (and most of you guys) are mature enough not to think too much about these names, but it becomes an issue when I have to carry around LiveCD's that have STD and Maxi written all over them. Since I'm a guy, that makes it slightly worse, too... ;)


*snicker*
When I worked for a large software corporation, back in the day, our internal names of products were, well, risque. heh. I used to go around with cds named "jockstrap," "thong," and other much, MUCH worse names.

Try explaining THOSE to people.

skoal
June 5th, 2005, 02:29 AM
Imagine being an IT admin a few years back and the CEO pokes in as you're running system tests on newly installed hardware he just shelled out the big bucks for.

CEO, "How you doing Jim? I just got your expense report. It cost a bundle, but I trust your judgement. How's everything going in here?"

Jim, "Oh! Pretty good sir! I'm using Lucifer (http://themes.freshmeat.net/projects/lucifer/) to burn in the hardware right now. Look-ing goood...look-ing good...but I might need to throw GRUB (http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/) on this machine right here. If that don't work, I'll just GAG (http://gag.sourceforge.net/) it if I have to..."

WildTangent
June 5th, 2005, 03:01 AM
i think a lot of distro names in general are wierd. fedora? gentoo? beatrix? MEPIS? :? imagine what a normal computer user is thinking when youre telling them about the latest distro youve tried out, theyll think youre off your rocker

-Wild

GrumpySimon
June 5th, 2005, 03:13 AM
Jim, "Oh! Pretty good sir! I'm using Lucifer to burn in the hardware right now. Look-ing goood...look-ing good...but I might need to throw GRUB on this machine right here. If that don't work, I'll just GAG it if I have to..."

Jim, "Oh! Pretty good sir! I'm using Excel to crack out a few spreadsheets...but I might need to throw them into Powerpoint. If that don't work, I'll just Photoshop it if I have to..."


fedora? gentoo? beatrix? MEPIS?

Windows? OS X? OS2 Warp?

It's exactly the same thing - the names don't matter much. What does "Excel" have to do with spreadsheets? "Powerpoint" = presentations? I need "Windows" to make my computer run other programs? "Microsoft Works" - yeah right (sorry, couldn't resist).

As long as the names are kinda sensible, people don't care. Most of them will use the program they're told to, the others can work it out for themselves.

Note - this is a different issue to bad/dirty names, which started this thread off. Things with double meanings, or childish humor should be avoided.

--Simon

m0biu5
June 5th, 2005, 03:46 AM
If you want a "G" in the name, or want to have some reference to GNU, and since we're running x-server, why not call our favourite desktop environment:

GX.

GX 2 (2.10)

GX 3 (instead of GNOME 3, when version 3 is released.) THAT sounds very cool. Very marketable.

I agree, GX3 is very cool sounding and quite marketable! :grin:

TravisNewman
June 5th, 2005, 04:07 AM
GX3 sounds quite nice actually.

People will claim we're ripping off OSX though.

GTKpower
June 5th, 2005, 04:16 AM
We need to be thinking in terms of marketability (among other things) if Gnome and Ubuntu (another questionable name, but the meaning is nice) is to move ahead in the OS wars.

Yes, the "GX" label is one idea, but there are many more.

"Mediaplayer" may be boring, but it's not nonsensical. If nothing else, a name should be simple and straightforward.

Consider "PowerMac G5, running OS X Tiger." Very cool, very attractive. "Power" and "Tiger." That big X is also a neat idea. You can slap it on a box with furry or metallic graphics and you've got a winning visual.

What's the kernel called? The "Mach" kernel. SPEED and POWER are the first things that come to mind, even though OS X is certainly not the fastest OS out there.

This G5 contains what? The "velocity engine." An example of turning the very technical into the very stylish.

Consider "OS X." OS stands for "operating system." Simple. Pronouncable. No confusion. The X is 10. Some people might (and have) confuse it with the letter "X", but it still looks cooler than "10." See how just the visual form of "X" can have an impact?

If Linux is to move well into the mainstream, we need to be thinking like this. I'm using the Mac as an example in this post, but I can use Microsoft and Windows just as easily.

Intel's "Hyperthreading" technology. Any time I see "Hyper" associated with hardware, I assume I'm in for quite a fast ride.

Image, advertising, marketing. I hate walking into a computer store and asking if they have any commecial apps for Linux, and hearing "Linux? What's that?" When you hear that about your product that's been in existence for over 10 years, it's not a good sign. Although Linux per se isn't commercial, it still needs basic recognition by the average computer user in the mainstream, whether it's commercial or not.

How about Hoary Hedgehog and Breezy Badger? Well . . . . those will have to go, eventually. My signature below is just a prediction of upcoming names, and not a wish-list.

allans
June 5th, 2005, 05:48 PM
And why on earth are the breezy prereleases called colonies?

GTKpower
June 5th, 2005, 06:12 PM
And why on earth are the breezy prereleases called colonies?


Badgers. Badgers live in . . . .uh . . . . colonies.

Yeh, that's right . . . colonies of badgers.

*ahem*

gil-galad
June 5th, 2005, 07:09 PM
kPogre, Kexi, Knoda, Muine, amaroK, Gaim, Ksirtet.

Compare the above with:

iPhoto, iLife, iTunes, MediaPlayer, Excel, iChat, Messenger, Rhythmbox, Thunderbird, Firefox, Sunbird.


Isn't that a double standard? How is iTunes, IPhoto, iLife, iChat any different than Kedit and etc? How is an i any better than a K :roll:

TravisNewman
June 5th, 2005, 07:41 PM
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but you're right.

The reason Hoary had array releases is because a group of hedgehogs is an array. A group of warthogs is a sounder, a group of badgers is colony. Just like a group of birds is a flock. etc etc

TravisNewman
June 5th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Isn't that a double standard? How is iTunes, IPhoto, iLife, iChat any different than Kedit and etc? How is an i any better than a K :roll:
it's not about the "i" or the "k" it's about what follows it. iTunes obviously plays music, but can you honestly say that kPogre, Kexi, Knoda, Muine, amaroK, Gaim, Ksirtet, etc, sound like what they do?

GTKpower
June 5th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Right.

Let's not forget that "i" and "e" are very catchy. They both refer to our internet age . . . . i-this or e-that.

Which calls into question the "k". This goes back to K in KDE standing for "Konqueror." "Conqueror" seems to be a fitting name in terms of symbolism, but from a marketing perspective, it is an oddity. The "K" just makes it silly. Our cultural associations with "K" give the impression that is it rather wimpy:

-Kraft
-Kmart
-and what I HATE . . . Kar (as in, a cute way of saying automobile.)
-k-car (see above.)

Yes, even letters of the alphabet give certain impressions!

somuchfortheafter
June 5th, 2005, 08:01 PM
cosidering i and e are vowles and well we have a u in ubuntu why not
ubrowser
upic--gimp
uconvo--gaim
uscan--xsane
ufox--our own custom kickass web browser with beagle tied in somehow
uparcel-- evolution/thunderbird bastard child
umm lets see
u-comerse *fictional exchange clone*
idk i kind of like those names, of course im kind of self-centered like most people so the description of it being mine in 3 person towards myself kind of sounds cool anyway....

gil-galad
June 5th, 2005, 08:03 PM
Well I generally agree, except for gaim. That obviously stands for Gnome/gtk aim. I have introduced all sorts of people to gaim and they always know what it does. This is also the Gnome HIG says to have menu items like GIMP Image Editor and Gaim Instant Messenger

I hate when people say things like this is a problem with OSS, or that is a problem with OSS. There are plenty of good sounding names in OSS. Abiword, Inkscape, firefox, etc. And there are plenty of bad sounding names in proprietary software. Don't pick and choose and generalize.

And a name is not a good name just because it's a household name and your used to it.

GTKpower
June 5th, 2005, 08:29 PM
cosidering i and e are vowles and well we have a u in ubuntu why not
ubrowser
upic--gimp
uconvo--gaim
uscan--xsane
ufox--our own custom kickass web browser with beagle tied in somehow
uparcel-- evolution/thunderbird bastard child
umm lets see
u-comerse *fictional exchange clone*
idk i kind of like those names, of course im kind of self-centered like most people so the description of it being mine in 3 person towards myself kind of sounds cool anyway....

You're on to something here.

The "u" can denote "you."

Nice.

Now, we're making the connection between the "u"ser (see?) a more personal and "human" one. Now, it isn't applicable to all the apps, because the "yooh" sound in "u" can be mistaken fur "uh" as in the sound in "but."

Having said that, however, u-commerce and u-parcel are very nice ideas.

The only problem is that these names are exclusive to Ubuntu. While I'm all for Ubuntu (hell, I love it!) we are actually using the GNOME desktop environment. Of course, these "u-app" names can be standardized across the entirety of GNOME. You might get users of other distro's complaining about being forced to live with apps that have Ubuntu-inspired names. Hehe . . . . they'll learn . . . . they'll learn.

EDIT:::::::

I would very respectfully disagree with a previous poster about finding problems with OSS. The reality is that despite all the good things, there are PLENTY of problems with OSS, and if we exepct Ubuntu and Linux to be a real force in the mainstream, we MUST nit-pick, and analayze, criticize, and fine-tune. It's all about haaving high standards; it's all about being competitive. We need to be our own greatest critics.

When someone says to me, "to install this under XYZ Linux distro you need to go into the console and type these commands and . . . . " When I see that I say STOP!!!!!! Typing DOS-style commands into a console is NOT a solution in 2005 when we have the likes of WinXP (yes, you read right) and the likes of OS X to contend with. The console should be there for all to use, but anything less than easy "fire-and-forget" installers are unacceptable. Synaptic, thnakfully, has gone a long way to remedy this problem.

gil-galad
June 5th, 2005, 08:30 PM
You can pretend G stands for good. Then you might like it.

somuchfortheafter
June 5th, 2005, 08:39 PM
ok well im a specialist at telling the cooless of letters and well here is the formula
vowles > consonants (in terms of coolness, except for z)
and g < all other letters subtracted from each other in terms of coolness
so mathmatically you can prove that u (infinity symbol) > g in terms of coolness

TravisNewman
June 5th, 2005, 10:39 PM
aaaahahhhhhh, no letters before the program names!!!

no i, no e, no u, no other vowels or consonants.

Its annoying as crap when you're trying to find something in the menu.
I and E are more catchy than K and G, and U isn't bad either, but if Ubuntu is going to custom name these things, why not call them "Web Browser" and "Email/Calendar" and "Chat Program," instead of makiung it look like they're taking the product and assigning it a different name. Nobody needs to know that Evolution checks their email, or that firefox lets them browse. Just call it what it is and don't beat around the bush, assigning letters to it just because it's what the rest of the cool kids are doing.

/rant off

TravisNewman
June 5th, 2005, 10:47 PM
"When someone says to me, "to install this under XYZ Linux distro you need to go into the console and type these commands and . . . . " When I see that I say STOP!!!!!! Typing DOS-style commands into a console is NOT a solution in 2005 when we have the likes of WinXP (yes, you read right) and the likes of OS X to contend with. The console should be there for all to use, but anything less than easy "fire-and-forget" installers are unacceptable. Synaptic, thnakfully, has gone a long way to remedy this problem."

I disagree with this. If you remember back in the 80s and early 90s, people knew how to use computers. Then Windows kept getting easier and easier and now nobody knows what's going on with their pc because they don't have to know. The command line could be simplified, and graphical utilites could, should, and will exist and keep being made for many different purposes, but when we try to get rid of the need for the command line, we're going to end up leaving people where they were, instead of teaching them new things.

Your argument also assumes that one of the main goals of Linux is competition, and this isn't the case. Ask Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman if they think that's a main goal of Linux. Normally, the goal of any open source project is merely to make a good, solid program that does something in a different way than other solutions, to fill a certain hole that has yet to be filled. For Linus, it was a free UNIX system. Now he has that, as do many other people.

EDIT: and yes, I did change some opinions between writing the first message and writing the second message, but I still stand by both.

GTKpower
June 6th, 2005, 12:42 AM
The competition question is an opinion, but a very valid one, I think. If we want people to start using Lnux and NOT Windows or OS X, the focus has to get more aggressive.

Simply "existing" really isn't enough, I think.

Yes, we have a free UNIX system. Now what?

somuchfortheafter
June 6th, 2005, 01:14 AM
seee the u occurs again panickedthumb.,..... UUUUUUUUUUUUUUnix lol yet again another reason why the u is awesome

allans
June 6th, 2005, 01:21 AM
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but you're right.

The reason Hoary had array releases is because a group of hedgehogs is an array. A group of warthogs is a sounder, a group of badgers is colony. Just like a group of birds is a flock. etc etc

Unfortunately I wasn't joking! Thanks for clearing that up :oops:

aysiu
June 6th, 2005, 04:14 AM
Your argument also assumes that one of the main goals of Linux is competition, and this isn't the case. Ask Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman if they think that's a main goal of Linux. Normally, the goal of any open source project is merely to make a good, solid program that does something in a different way than other solutions, to fill a certain hole that has yet to be filled. For Linus, it was a free UNIX system. Now he has that, as do many other people.

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a "program that does something in a different way than other solutions" and "competition." Doing the same thing in a different way is providing an alternatives. Alternatives are competition.

Think about it this way. Let's say there's one company that provides cars. Another company provides... not cars, per se but something that allows people to travel at high speeds from one destination to another. Uh, maybe that alternative doesn't use a motorized engine. Maybe it isn't called a "car," but it's still competition if it provides an alternative.

Now, we could say that Linux's objective isn't to be an imitation of Windows or Mac. That's fine. We could say Linux wants to take an entirely different approach. But it's still competition, no matter how you look at it. What is Mac? An operating system. What is Windows? An operating system. Linux is also an operating system. I'd say the vast majority of Ubuntu users want Linux to do the same things that Windows or Mac does for them: chat, email, word process, image manipulate, organize music, watch movies, surf the internet, etc.

That doesn't mean we have to come up with names for programs that "make sense"--in fact, part of the charm of open source is its quirky names. Frankly, even though I think people make valid points about naming affecting adoption, naming isn't a make or break deal. Google is the most successful search engine out there. How does that make more sense than Infoseek or Ask Jeeves? Amazon is one of the most successful online bookstores (eventually becoming much more than a bookstore). It can be done, but it is a bit of stretch to associate Amazon with books. Wouldn't Bookstore.com make more sense?

Truth is, Macintosh or Apple has not much to do with computers... we're talking a type of apple and a type of fruit. Sure, GIMP sounds a hell of a lot more embarrassing than Photoshop, but if you have a good publicity department, even Firefox can begin dethroning Internet Explorer.

1337sithlord
June 6th, 2005, 04:17 AM
Hah, i dunno whats with those names. It might be a subliminal message thing where they get u to pay attention by sneaking in some suspicious word lol.

skoal
June 6th, 2005, 04:34 AM
Hah, i dunno whats with those names. It might be a subliminal message thing where they get u to pay attention by sneaking in some suspicious word lol.

That's ironic. I used to think Steve Jobs' marketing department was just being refreshingly honest with their products:

APPLE (Arrogance Produces Profit-Losing Entity)
MACINTOSH (Most Applications Crash; If Not, The Operating System Hangs)

years later I realized they just like fruit.

TravisNewman
June 6th, 2005, 06:12 AM
I'm not sure I understand the difference between a "program that does something in a different way than other solutions" and "competition." Doing the same thing in a different way is providing an alternatives. Alternatives are competition.

Think about it this way. Let's say there's one company that provides cars. Another company provides... not cars, per se but something that allows people to travel at high speeds from one destination to another. Uh, maybe that alternative doesn't use a motorized engine. Maybe it isn't called a "car," but it's still competition if it provides an alternative.

Now, we could say that Linux's objective isn't to be an imitation of Windows or Mac. That's fine. We could say Linux wants to take an entirely different approach. But it's still competition, no matter how you look at it. What is Mac? An operating system. What is Windows? An operating system. Linux is also an operating system. I'd say the vast majority of Ubuntu users want Linux to do the same things that Windows or Mac does for them: chat, email, word process, image manipulate, organize music, watch movies, surf the internet, etc.

That doesn't mean we have to come up with names for programs that "make sense"--in fact, part of the charm of open source is its quirky names. Frankly, even though I think people make valid points about naming affecting adoption, naming isn't a make or break deal. Google is the most successful search engine out there. How does that make more sense than Infoseek or Ask Jeeves? Amazon is one of the most successful online bookstores (eventually becoming much more than a bookstore). It can be done, but it is a bit of stretch to associate Amazon with books. Wouldn't Bookstore.com make more sense?

Truth is, Macintosh or Apple has not much to do with computers... we're talking a type of apple and a type of fruit. Sure, GIMP sounds a hell of a lot more embarrassing than Photoshop, but if you have a good publicity department, even Firefox can begin dethroning Internet Explorer.
I see your point, but alternatives existing doesn't mean that they're INTENDING to compete. If I make something and don't release it, but only use it for myself, then its still technically competing, because I'm not using other products, but that's splitting hairs. My point is that the focus isn't on winning market share, its about creating a solid stable and functional product, and if people like it, great!

aysiu
June 6th, 2005, 07:05 AM
I see your point, but alternatives existing doesn't mean that they're INTENDING to compete. If I make something and don't release it, but only use it for myself, then its still technically competing, because I'm not using other products, but that's splitting hairs. My point is that the focus isn't on winning market share, its about creating a solid stable and functional product, and if people like it, great!

You're absolutely right, depending on what Linux users you ask. I'd certainly agree that most purists would say Linux isn't bending over backwards to meet every aspect of the major OSes in order to establish more market share. There isn't a goal to be met by the entire Linux community. Still, Linux enthusiasts, particularly those pushing these user-friendly distros (like Ubuntu and Mepis) are hoping that Linux will be real competition for the "regular" user's desktop. The Linux community is just too big to be united in one approach. The only thing we have in common is that we like Linux. Linus Torvalds probably still think it's all for fun (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0066620732/qid=1118037836/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-7750291-2780021?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). Novell or IBM may not think the same way.

weekend warrior
June 6th, 2005, 09:27 AM
*sigh* can't we just call everything a marklar? On planet Marklar, everyone and everything is a marklar...

"We are Marklars. We come from Marklar. We come in marklar. Take us to your marklar. Don't marklar around with us and there won't be any marklar." Did you marklar all of that? ;-)

Seriously though, many opinions here on what's "better" are handicapped by your own maternal language bias. What sounds good or bad to you may be opinions not even remotely shared by others. In Japan the Nissan "BlueBird" was cool. Sound like a good car name to you? a blue bird?
http://www.lbm.net/Clipart_Gallery/images/blue_parakeet_lg_clr.gif
Interesting enough, when it went to Australia, it became a Nissan Bluebird SSS ATTESSA.


Everything is relative...

jdong
June 6th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Badgers. Badgers live in . . . .uh . . . . colonies.

Yeh, that's right . . . colonies of badgers.

*ahem*

So Hoary Hedgehogs live in arrays? ;)

CospeFogo
June 6th, 2005, 03:16 PM
I don't see why we have to spread Linux to all. If it works for you, ok, cool. It works for me too, but it doesn't work for all. When a friend or relative of mine complains about a Windows' specific problem, I say: "You wouldn't have this problem if you used Linux, but you wouldn't have some of the Windows' features." and they choose what they want: security or specific features. If they choose Linux, it doesn't make any difference for me. It makes for them. If someone absolutely needs the features of a Windows system, he will adapt to it. If someone absolutely need the features of a Linux system he will adapt to it too.

skoal
June 6th, 2005, 03:56 PM
[...]If someone absolutely needs the features of a Windows system, he will adapt to it. If someone absolutely need the features of a Linux system he will adapt to it too.

That's a good point. However, watching native Windows movies in Firefox on Linux has always been a problem. Even the Realplayer format is too closely bound to Windows. So what do we do? That was a problem, until now...

Say goodbye to Mozilla plugins forever! I read recently that the developers of Xine and MPlayer are creating their own Movies In Linux Format (MILF). I can't wait! I see their clever use of acronyms too. It's a great twist to an old beverage marketing slogan. I can't wait to wear my t-shirt proudly, "Got MILF?"

\\//_

somuchfortheafter
June 6th, 2005, 04:17 PM
personally i cannot wait for fedora's unified creative knowledge licsense .....

skoal
June 6th, 2005, 04:49 PM
personally i cannot wait for fedora's unified creative knowledge licsense .....

Maybe i can release open source on fedora too...

\\//_

GTKpower
June 6th, 2005, 05:40 PM
That's a good point. However, watching native Windows movies in Firefox on Linux has always been a problem. Even the Realplayer format is too closely bound to Windows. So what do we do? That was a problem, until now...

Say goodbye to Mozilla plugins forever! I read recently that the developers of Xine and MPlayer are creating their own Movies In Linux Format (MILF). I can't wait! I see their clever use of acronyms too. It's a great twist to an old beverage marketing slogan. I can't wait to wear my t-shirt proudly, "Got MILF?"

\\//_

It'll be called "MILF"???

ROFL.

I'd love to see a kid do a google search to find the newest and coolest MILFs. Yeah, I'm sure he/she will find plenty of "movies" arlight . . . . .

Note to Skoal: uh, it's not about beverages. And you probably *wouldn't* want to waer a t-shirt like that. ;-)

somuchfortheafter
June 6th, 2005, 08:57 PM
or what about syntax terminology fluency unification?

Jenda
June 6th, 2005, 09:52 PM
It'll be called "MILF"???

ROFL.

I'd love to see a kid do a google search to find the newest and coolest MILFs. Yeah, I'm sure he/she will find plenty of "movies" arlight . . . . .

Note to Skoal: uh, it's not about beverages. And you probably *wouldn't* want to waer a t-shirt like that. ;-)
I would definitely want to wear such a t-shirt!!! And on the back, an explanation.

GOT MILF?
MOVIES IN LINUX FORMAT

kassetra
June 6th, 2005, 10:31 PM
It'll be called "MILF"???

ROFL.

I'd love to see a kid do a google search to find the newest and coolest MILFs. Yeah, I'm sure he/she will find plenty of "movies" arlight . . . . .

Note to Skoal: uh, it's not about beverages. And you probably *wouldn't* want to waer a t-shirt like that. ;-)

Oh for peet's sake. There's NO WAY they can possibly name it that. That's just too much.

Besides, do you know what would happen if *I* wore a t-shirt like that? :roll:

GTKpower
June 6th, 2005, 11:01 PM
Oh for peet's sake. There's NO WAY they can possibly name it that. That's just too much.

Besides, do you know what would happen if *I* wore a t-shirt like that? :roll:


I've experienced the KDE (and to a much lesser extent, GNOME) nameing scheme. I'm not encouraged.

MILF . . . . . . . ahh, soccer moms. Immortalized in Linux.

j/k. :wink:

kassetra
June 6th, 2005, 11:50 PM
I've experienced the KDE (and to a much lesser extent, GNOME) nameing scheme. I'm not encouraged.

MILF . . . . . . . ahh, soccer moms. Immortalized in Linux.

j/k. :wink:

I'm not a soccer mom... by *any* stretch of the imagination. heh. There is no way I'm going to hand out MILF cds nor wear a MILF t-shirt to ANY linux conference.

That's like wearing a lightning rod in a thunderstorm.

GTKpower
June 7th, 2005, 12:01 AM
I'm not a soccer mom... by *any* stretch of the imagination. heh. There is no way I'm going to hand out MILF cds nor wear a MILF t-shirt to ANY linux conference.

That's like wearing a lightning rod in a thunderstorm.


Hehe . . . . with today's news about Apple, and the release of Sarge, ANYTHING is possible.

:wink:

poofyhairguy
June 7th, 2005, 12:03 AM
When someone says to me, "to install this under XYZ Linux distro you need to go into the console and type these commands and . . . . " When I see that I say STOP!!!!!! Typing DOS-style commands into a console is NOT a solution in 2005 when we have the likes of WinXP (yes, you read right) and the likes of OS X to contend with. The console should be there for all to use, but anything less than easy "fire-and-forget" installers are unacceptable. Synaptic, thnakfully, has gone a long way to remedy this problem.

I used to think this. Now I know I was wrong. When it comes to getting help, its better to have command line. Why? Because instead of saying

"go to start, then go to control panel, then put it in classic mode if it is not. What do you mean "how do I know if its in classic mode?," in classic mode there are more icons. No, not like icons on your desktop, icons on the control panel. No, it does not lack icons if it is not in classic mode. sigh."

In Linux I say "So you want to get rid of spatial file browsing. You know the thing how each folder is it own Window? yeah I hate it too. Alright put this line I'm about to email you in the terminal that I showed you last time I was there. Here:

gconftool-2 --type bool --set /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser true

Did it work. Oh good it did. How is your sister...."

Just because Dos used to do it and Windows doesn't mean one is better. Hell....Dos didn't have activex and I think that is better!

kassetra
June 7th, 2005, 12:04 AM
Hehe . . . . with today's news about Apple, and the release of Sarge, ANYTHING is possible.

:wink:

Except me ever being a soccer mom... or a mom for that matter. LOL *Long live my cats!*

TravisNewman
June 7th, 2005, 02:32 AM
Except me ever being a soccer mom... or a mom for that matter. LOL *Long live my cats!*
See, if you could just teach Chaos and Binary how to play soccer, THEN you'd really be a soccer mom!

kassetra
June 7th, 2005, 04:41 AM
See, if you could just teach Chaos and Binary how to play soccer, THEN you'd really be a soccer mom!

NNNNGGGGH!

If they could play soccer... I'd also have to drive a big ol' SUV to haul around the other cats that play soccer... and from there on out, it just gets bad.

Let's not teach the cats to play soccer.

picpak
June 26th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Funny, I was just talking about how stupid the names in open source are.

I mean, seriously. Who in God's name wants to say they're using GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/) and Zot (http://www.zotos.tk/) with Pathetic Writer (http://siag.nu/pw/)?

weekend warrior
June 26th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Depends on one's perspective, see my post a couple pages back. Surely you know of His Majesty Zog of Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zog_of_Albania) right? And if you are a pathetic writer well, if the shoe fits... :wink: