Does Ubuntu have an Image Problem?

[igknighted]

Ubuntu has exploded onto the scene recently (in linux terms... its only a few years old after all). In light of remarks I have seen on the forums of quite a few other distro's, there seems to be a strong backlash against Ubuntu. I understand in many ways where it comes from. I use many distro's myself, and in fact I do not think that (IMHO) Ubuntu is in the best. Top ten at least, which out of 500+ aint bad, but not #1 (that would be either Sabayon or Fedora, but thats another argument). The point is, Ubuntu gets all the linux press and the fanfare, and other distro's feel slighted. The news on Beryl/Compiz will not help matters. Fedora developed AIGLX and Compiz and XGL were originally Suse projects. They birthed this great development and now it is running away to Ubuntu.

OK, enough background. Plain and simple, do you think Ubuntu has an image problem amongst the linux community (our ubuntu community not included obviously)?

[plb]

Pretty much every distro has an "image"

Gentoo users are ricers
Debian is old and crusty
Ubuntu is for newbs
Fedora uses RPM :lolflag:
Suse sided with Microsoft

etc etc etc...

[maniacmusician]

Well obviously it does. This happens whenever something gets really popular. Like Macs for instant. They're very popular, but they're still the underdogs in the computing world, and a lot of users hate them.

I agree that Ubuntu is not the best distro per say (as in not the fastest, not the one with the most features, etc), but I think that it is the best distro for newbies. It's a less drastic change form Windows than Gentoo/Sabayon, or Fedora/SUSE. It takes a lot less time to maintain and set up, and a lot less effort as well. I guess it could be called the lazy man's distro.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend anything other than Ubuntu to a brand new user. I myself was totally stupified when I first tried some other distros like suse. It feels to me like Ubuntu has just the right mix of easiness and complexity for new users.

[WalmartSniperLX]

Pretty much every distro has an "image"

Gentoo users are ricers
Debian is old and crusty
Ubuntu is for newbs
Fedora uses RPM :lolflag:
Suse sided with Microsoft

etc etc etc...

LoL Debian is old and crusty :P

[igknighted]

Well obviously it does. This happens whenever something gets really popular. Like Macs for instant. They're very popular, but they're still the underdogs in the computing world, and a lot of users hate them.

I agree that Ubuntu is not the best distro per say (as in not the fastest, not the one with the most features, etc), but I think that it is the best distro for newbies. It's a less drastic change form Windows than Gentoo/Sabayon, or Fedora/SUSE. It takes a lot less time to maintain and set up, and a lot less effort as well. I guess it could be called the lazy man's distro.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend anything other than Ubuntu to a brand new user. I myself was totally stupified when I first tried some other distros like suse. It feels to me like Ubuntu has just the right mix of easiness and complexity for new users.

Is it though? I installed SAM linux (PCLOS w/ Xfce) and I was really impressed. There was a great GUI that automatically configured my wifi card, Beryl was automatically configured when I wanted it. The nvidia drivers were easily found and installed in synaptic perfectly... I got everything a new user needs up and running without touching the command line. In my experience, the hardware detection isn't quite as good as Ubuntu... but for a new user Ubuntu asks for a ton of CLI, and in other distro's thats not the case. In Ubuntu's fairness, it has better documentation and a more active forum than PCLOS/SAM, but even that is a young project, so with time I am sure it will grow.

[Lord Illidan]

I think it is more the publicity which Ubuntu seems to get. To be honest, I think plenty of what Mark does somehow attracts publicity...we seem to be unique.

Best Distro? Well, for me, it certainly is...

[Adamant1988]

Ubuntu has exploded onto the scene recently (in linux terms... its only a few years old after all). In light of remarks I have seen on the forums of quite a few other distro's, there seems to be a strong backlash against Ubuntu. I understand in many ways where it comes from. I use many distro's myself, and in fact I do not think that (IMHO) Ubuntu is in the best. Top ten at least, which out of 500+ aint bad, but not #1 (that would be either Sabayon or Fedora, but thats another argument). The point is, Ubuntu gets all the linux press and the fanfare, and other distro's feel slighted. The news on Beryl/Compiz will not help matters. Fedora developed AIGLX and Compiz and XGL were originally Suse projects. They birthed this great development and now it is running away to Ubuntu.

OK, enough background. Plain and simple, do you think Ubuntu has an image problem amongst the linux community (our ubuntu community not included obviously)?

Ubuntu does not have the most wonderful image ever, you're right. When questioning users of other distributions about Ubuntu I've heard insults about everything from it's theme from the way it's developed, to the stance on proprietary technology. People say that the developers use "Hacks and shortcuts" to do things that "X distro does properly", etc. but honestly I feel that comes down to the development force- Ubuntu just doesn't have as many developers as we like to think it does. Shortcuts need to be taken in the interest of time.

I think part of the problem with Ubuntu is it's lax nature on non-free, other distributions look at this with their nose in the air because "Ubuntu does it why don't you?". Some distributions view the "Shoddy" development style of Ubuntu (fast not proper) as bad and judge Ubuntu for that. But in the end one thing is undeniable, Ubuntu's user-base is massive and growing, despite the image that the FOSS community has of it.

[Lord Illidan]

Ubuntu does not have the most wonderful image ever, you're right. When questioning users of other distributions about Ubuntu I've heard insults about everything from it's theme from the way it's developed, to the stance on proprietary technology. People say that the developers use "Hacks and shortcuts" to do things that "X distro does properly", etc. but honestly I feel that comes down to the development force- Ubuntu just doesn't have as many developers as we like to think it does. Shortcuts need to be taken in the interest of time.

I think part of the problem with Ubuntu is it's lax nature on non-free, other distributions look at this with their nose in the air because "Ubuntu does it why don't you?". Some distributions view the "Shoddy" development style of Ubuntu (fast not proper) as bad and judge Ubuntu for that. But in the end one thing is undeniable, Ubuntu's user-base is massive and growing, despite the image that the FOSS community has of it.

Sour grapes, most of it. I mean, why would I insult a distro just for a theme? I agree that there aren't as many developers as we would wish, but then..

I think part of the problem is the envy and jealousness within the FOSS community. We are not a bunch of saints.

[Quillz]

It's not Canonical's fault that their distro has become one of the most popular in recent memory. I guess you could say Ubuntu appeared at the right time, with the right business model.

Linux as a whole has never been more widely accepted, and Ubuntu just happens to be a great front-end to all that Linux has to offer.

[Adamant1988]

It's not Canonical's fault that their distro has become one of the most popular in recent memory. I guess you could say Ubuntu appeared at the right time, with the right business model.

Linux as a whole has never been more widely accepted, and Ubuntu just happens to be a great front-end to all that Linux has to offer.

LOL, it actually *is* Canonical's fault. Thanks in no small part to the slick marketing around Ubuntu it is growing VERY quickly and people are getting attached.

[Lord Illidan]

It's not Canonical's fault that their distro has become one of the most popular in recent memory. I guess you could say Ubuntu appeared at the right time, with the right business model.

Linux as a whole has never been more widely accepted, and Ubuntu just happens to be a great front-end to all that Linux has to offer.

That, and they think that the major reason for its success is Shuttleworth's wealth. Which I believe is partially true. Which other distro could afford to send out free cds on request, shipping included?

[RAV TUX]

Ubuntu has exploded onto the scene recently (in linux terms... its only a few years old after all). In light of remarks I have seen on the forums of quite a few other distro's, there seems to be a strong backlash against Ubuntu. I understand in many ways where it comes from. I use many distro's myself, and in fact I do not think that (IMHO) Ubuntu is in the best. Top ten at least, which out of 500+ aint bad, but not #1 (that would be either Sabayon or Fedora, but thats another argument). The point is, Ubuntu gets all the linux press and the fanfare, and other distro's feel slighted. The news on Beryl/Compiz will not help matters. Fedora developed AIGLX and Compiz and XGL were originally Suse projects. They birthed this great development and now it is running away to Ubuntu.

OK, enough background. Plain and simple, do you think Ubuntu has an image problem amongst the linux community (our ubuntu community not included obviously)?I quite honestly am not sure about Ubuntu's image problem or any other distros, but Novell has worked wonders to improve the Linux image overnight:

Take a look, see my favorite posted here:
http://cafelinux.org/forum/index.php/topic,114.msg511.html#new

Linux is Hot! and Apple and Windows look like yesterdays rugs

[Quillz]

LOL, it actually *is* Canonical's fault. Thanks in no small part to the slick marketing around Ubuntu it is growing VERY quickly and people are getting attached.
Even so, I fail to see why this is bad. If the other distros choose not to actively market their distros aggressively, then Canonical has every right to put Ubuntu into the spotlight.

Not to mention that as it's aimed at beginners (although just as powerful as any other distro,) Ubuntu is in some ways a "gateway" distro in that it might encourage some to look into other distros, like openSUSE or Gentoo. That's exactly what happened with me.

[silkstone]

As a noob :) .... I came to Ubuntu not because I'm (necessarily) lazy, but because I wanted an OS to run software on rather than as an end in itself. I became very familiar with command line stuff in DOS days, but given the choice I'd rather use a GUI. It looks as if Ubuntu stands a chance of capturing more support simply because it's aimed at ordinary computer users as well as computer enthusiasts, and IMO that's the only way any version of Linux is going to expand its user base significantly.

As for proprietary software, drivers etc - I have no problem at all with all that. After all, there's no such thing as free, open-source hardware, so what's wrong with paying for the software too as long as the price is reasonable?

[karellen]

no, it doesn't have any image problem. it's envy and mediatization and rejection of being successful....people tend to hate "miss popularity". and about the best distro....what exactly do you mean by that? the best distro in terms of speed, user-friendliness, features, eye-candy, simplicity, available applications, distrowatch ranking...? it's like saying "the best car" and then stop. the best car for what...? fuel consumption, top speed, rugged terrain, environment-friendly?!...you see there are many aspectsc that have to be considered if we want to make our statements clear and consistent :)

[igknighted]

no, it doesn't have any image problem. it's envy and mediatization and rejection of being successful....people tend to hate "miss popularity". and about the best distro....what exactly do you mean by that? the best distro in terms of speed, user-friendliness, features, eye-candy, simplicity, available applications, distrowatch ranking...? it's like saying "the best car" and then stop. the best car for what...? fuel consumption, top speed, rugged terrain, environment-friendly?!...you see there are many aspectsc that have to be considered if we want to make our statements clear and consistent :)

I said "in my opinion", which was meant to imply that for my uses Ubuntu is not the best. Clearly, there is no "best" distro, but this is part of the point I am making. Ubuntu is not the awesome power the pwnzers all other distro's. On account of these, these other distro's which see Ubuntu as just another distro get offended by the "theres Ubuntu and then theres the others" mentality.

[aysiu]

I agree that Ubuntu is not the best distro per say (as in not the fastest, not the one with the most features, etc), but I think that it is the best distro for newbies. It's a less drastic change form Windows than Gentoo/Sabayon, or Fedora/SUSE. It takes a lot less time to maintain and set up, and a lot less effort as well. I guess it could be called the lazy man's distro. I have to disagree there.

A lot of new users expect Java, MP3 playback, Nvidia drivers, and Flash plugins to work right away. Ubuntu does not provide that. I would instead recommend Mepis, PCLinuxOS, or Linux Mint to a new user. Those are truly "lazy man's" distros.

[karellen]

I said "in my opinion", which was meant to imply that for my uses Ubuntu is not the best. Clearly, there is no "best" distro, but this is part of the point I am making. Ubuntu is not the awesome power the pwnzers all other distro's. On account of these, these other distro's which see Ubuntu as just another distro get offended by the "theres Ubuntu and then theres the others" mentality.

I know :). I never disregarded other distros. I consider them all part of the big linux family, like brothers. unde the hood there's almost the same screws and bolts. the fact that I prefer one the another it's not so important from my point of view...

[Quillz]

I have to disagree there.

A lot of new users expect Java, MP3 playback, Nvidia drivers, and Flash plugins to work right away. Ubuntu does not provide that. I would instead recommend Mepis, PCLinuxOS, or Linux Mint to a new user. Those are truly "lazy man's" distros.
But doesn't 7.04 now automatically find any missing codecs for you? That's how it's worked for me thus far...

[23meg]

The point is, Ubuntu gets all the linux press and the fanfare, and other distro's feel slighted. The news on Beryl/Compiz will not help matters. Fedora developed AIGLX and Compiz and XGL were originally Suse projects. They birthed this great development and now it is running away to Ubuntu.

They initiated these projects under the GPL or GPL-compatible permissive licenses for everyone to benefit from them, which was to be expected; nothing is "running away to" anywhere. AIGLX, Compiz and XGL got tons of contributions, fixes and testing from outside their "homes" as well; they flow from everywhere to everywhere, just like every other piece of Free software does.


OK, enough background.

Not enough background to make a case really; all you've provided is an example that doesn't really follow in terms of FOSS logic, and your personal opinion (that Ubuntu isn't the best distro for you).

[igknighted]

Not enough background to make a case really; all you've provided is an example that doesn't really follow in terms of FOSS logic, and your personal opinion (that Ubuntu isn't the best distro for you).

I didn't want to lay out my case and bias the whole discussion to follow, I wanted users opinions. If you want my personal opinion, Ubuntu is one of the best "pure" distro's out there. I love Fedora and Ubuntu because they are the two distro's with really easy installs that I can really get under the hood with ease. This is important because I don't want spend a day reinstalling if/when I bork something. Overall I give Fedora the edge because I feel like it is a bit more mature, a little more bleeding edge, and I like the yum/rpm tools better than apt/dpkg (more options). I also love Sabayon because portage is my "package" manager of choice, and if I ruin it I can get the system back in minutes. I have done the gentoo install a few times, but I don't have the time for pure gentoo ATM.

As I said before, I understand the arguements of those who dislike Ubuntu's attention, and I do think it is overhyped (as is PCLOS), but it is still a great distro and great community (hence why I am here).

PS. Agreed with aysiu, Ubuntu is definitely not the distro I would recommend to a newb unless they wanted to learn CLI to set up the system. If you want to get your feet wet then learn then Mint, Mepis and PCLOS are better choices for new users (IMO again). For those who want to really delve into it as they learn but don't want it to be overwhelming, and also have support of a large, friendly community, then Ubuntu is the place to be.

[graabein]

I'm pretty new to GNU/Linux but I have the impression Ubuntu is Debian unstable made easy. And Debian seems like one of the best original distros around. Experienced linux users know that it's all the same and one just have to weigh the positives and negatives to once own need.

Whatever the public image is, it is not that important as long as it's not something dramatically bad, like siding with Microsoft or selling crack to kids. GNU/Linux beats the crap out of Mac and Vista (LOL!) anyway and is fast improving so I'm glad it's getting more attention. Only been a user for a couple years myself but I'm not going back.

;-)



And I would say No, it don't have an image problem :-) How can humanity to others be a problem??

[zubrug]

You have to take this popularity thing with a grain of salt, I cleaned out my desk the other day and through out handfull's of disks with ubuntu iso's on them (daily builds, herd releases, beta's) as well as many ship-it cd's.
As with the traffic on this forum, I have yet to read another distro's forum that does not have links here.
It's a good distro!

[euler_fan]

I agree there is always going to be alot of bickering about distro choice, just like there is bickering about cars, beers, colas . . . pick something. When personal preference gets involved there is probably no way to avoid it.

At the same time, I agree there is no "best" distro, just a "best for what I want/need" distro. I have been using Ubuntu for 2.5 months now, and frankly I'm in no hurry to switch. I'm very impressed by its performance on my machine and its ease of use. I like it, plain and simple, but I'm not going to go out and say to the Fedora users (for instance) "switch now". It's a bit, to my mind, silly.

I jumped into Ubuntu in large part because it was one of the top three and when I looked at the forums and the LiveCD worked I figured I could do much worse, and maybe not much better. I may in a few years try some other distros when I repair my old machine (HD died) and see what happens.

Any yes, Novell did up the cool factor of Linux with those videos. :) They are awesome. Especially number 3.

[Lord Illidan]

I agree there is always going to be alot of bickering about distro choice, just like there is bickering about cars, beers, colas . . . pick something. When personal preference gets involved there is probably no way to avoid it.

At the same time, I agree there is no "best" distro, just a "best for what I want/need" distro. I have been using Ubuntu for 2.5 months now, and frankly I'm in no hurry to switch. I'm very impressed by its performance on my machine and its ease of use. I like it, plain and simple, but I'm not going to go out and say to the Fedora users (for instance) "switch now". It's a bit, to my mind, silly.

I jumped into Ubuntu in large part because it was one of the top three and when I looked at the forums and the LiveCD worked I figured I could do much worse, and maybe not much better. I may in a few years try some other distros when I repair my old machine (HD died) and see what happens.

Any yes, Novell did up the cool factor of Linux with those videos. :) They are awesome. Especially number 3.

I agree with you..those videos rocked!

[23meg]

I didn't want to lay out my case and bias the whole discussion to follow, I wanted users opinions. Here you have mine, based on what you've laid out: no, Ubuntu doesn't have an image problem.

Is the whole distro choice thing overrated and overdone? Yes. Choose one that works for you, forget the rest, and there's no "image problem", no "too much choice", no "my distro is better than yours" drama.

[aysiu]

But doesn't 7.04 now automatically find any missing codecs for you? That's how it's worked for me thus far... Well, 7.04 hasn't come out yet, officially. I still maintain, though, that's it's easier for new users to have all their proprietary stuff already there than to be readily installable.