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sapo
June 2nd, 2005, 06:57 PM
I m visiting this section everyday waiting to see some women revolution but i think its missing something ](*,)

You have some ideas, you have some women.. so.. whats missing? :|

When i first saw this section i thought... wow women uses linux too (almost all women that i know just know how to gossip in msn and see their horoscope in a website).

But sincerely just standing here, talking in a forum you (women) are not going to change anything... :-#

Sorry if i m being rude.. dont misunderstand me... i wanna help you rule the word too...

btw my idea is:

The Ubuntu Women should start some kind of "Simple Project" but stop all this theorical crap... instead of staying here in this forum just in theory while a lot of people are making "men" projects you should start some simple thing to ubuntu.. here are my sugestions:

1 - Why not make a Women Ubuntu theme? Using flowers, animals, and all those cute things that women like?
Ok, ok.. you are gonna say "but there's a lot of themes out there"... but.. its different to use a theme that you know wich was made with love... by women for women http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/images/smilies/heart-on.gif

You could make a pink/orange theme and mix some ubuntu stuff with more collorfull stuff and images, why a flower's field as a backgroud....

2 - Why not make a Women instant messenger? or if its too dificult why not make a women's theme for an existing one? like some custom emoticons for gaim.. or something like?

3 - One guy was asking in the comunity chat about a "tamagoshi" for linux.. why not try to make one? i m sure women like this kind of "inutilities".


Btw.. i m just showing you my point of view... cause i m the kind of guy that hates theory... and one of my teacher always said this to me:



While you are still thinking about a great idea to do something, be sure that somebody is already doing it. So, move your ass off the chair and start making it.

jkndrkn
June 2nd, 2005, 08:16 PM
Heh, I think your post will offend some people, despite your good intentions. Gender issues are difficult to discuss, and some people may see your statements as promoting gender stereotypes.

sapo
June 2nd, 2005, 08:25 PM
Heh, I think your post will offend some people, despite your good intentions. Gender issues are difficult to discuss, and some people may see your statements as promoting gender stereotypes.


Thats not my intention...

I just think that Ubunut Women need some substancial project.. instead of just ideas...

And i really like the idea of having more women using linux.. thats why i think that we have to do something to catch their attentions :mrgreen:

DrMoxie
June 2nd, 2005, 08:32 PM
Well, Ubuntu has already caught the attention of my wife, mother, and sister. All three of them use it exclusively without needing a hook beyond the fact that it is a rock solid, user friendly distro. :wink:

Knome_fan
June 3rd, 2005, 10:07 AM
Great ideas!

After all, redecorating (with flowers and such) and playing with dolls comes naturally to women... :roll:

Now if we could only find the linux equivalent of cleaning the dishes... :-?

panickedthumb
June 3rd, 2005, 02:35 PM
playing with dolls comes naturally to everyone, it's just discouraged among the little boys, which is one reason why, later on in life, that little boy grows up and has kids and has no clue what to do with them ;)

" Now if we could only find the linux equivalent of cleaning the dishes... :?"
How nice of you to volunteer to clean all our dishes. Seriously, are you TRYING to promote sexist stereotypes with that one? If it was a joke, it's one that doesn't translate over the web well.

sapo
June 3rd, 2005, 03:18 PM
omfg.. people just dont get what i mean ](*,)

Here.. take a look at this:

http://www.templatesbymarina.com/

Just click on templates and take a look around...

marina is a girl that makes "blog templates" just take a look how her templates look like:

http://marinairis.sites.uol.com.br/template10.htm

Do you know any man that would use that template?

So... why not try to make some theme like this kind of template to ubuntu? i dont know if a housewife would use it... but i m sure is something that a lot of girls would love :-P

And now take a look at this one:

http://marinairis.sites.uol.com.br/template399.htm

Why not use some idea like this for wallpapers and themes?

:grin:

Knome_fan
June 3rd, 2005, 03:49 PM
playing with dolls comes naturally to everyone, it's just discouraged among the little boys, which is one reason why, later on in life, that little boy grows up and has kids and has no clue what to do with them ;)

" Now if we could only find the linux equivalent of cleaning the dishes... :?"
How nice of you to volunteer to clean all our dishes. Seriously, are you TRYING to promote sexist stereotypes with that one? If it was a joke, it's one that doesn't translate over the web well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

DrMoxie
June 3rd, 2005, 03:56 PM
Great ideas!

After all, redecorating (with flowers and such) and playing with dolls comes naturally to women... :roll:

Now if we could only find the linux equivalent of cleaning the dishes... :-?

erm... Maybe my sarcasm detector is calibrated wrong but I can assure you that the ladies in my life would lynch me if I took any other approach beyond treating them as the intelligent savvy individuals that they are.

As for the dishes, porting Linux to my Maytag would be an interesting project to say the least... :razz:

/EDIT
On preview, why yes my Sacrasm Detector is dialed way to low!

bk452
June 3rd, 2005, 04:32 PM
people just dont get what i mean***

I do. And I think your ideas are worth considering. I'd like to see apps where you can take a photo and print up a tee-shirt and that doesn't require me to be an IT person. That sort of stuff.

Even though such things aren't exclusively in women's domain, I think women 'get-it' quicker than men. I think more women would be using Linux if it had those kind of apps that they use in windows. I have to tell you that as a woman, Linux can be pretty sterile at times.

Tsjoklat
June 12th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Sapo: I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. Ubuntu Women for me is not a project to make pretty candy coloured skins. The base of this project is to help women become more at ease in the so far male dominated linux world. It is our intention not to seperate the women from the 'rest', but to make the threshold lower.
I am currently working on a base concept of what direction I would like this project to go. I guess you are not very clear about the ideas we had to motivate us to start this group. Though your suggestion of themes and what not is surely appreciated, it is not something I have even considered to be part of UW.


D

*fears an invasion of Barbie Linux in the nearby future*

panickedthumb
June 13th, 2005, 03:11 AM
Wow I managed to miss the progression of this thread.

knome_fan: Yes yes, I figured it was irony or sarcasm. Those don't translate well over text. That's why it's not helping to promote our cause in the least, and perhaps hurting it for some.

senorcheaposgato
June 13th, 2005, 05:50 PM
WARNING: feminist anger ahead

Alright, so let me work through the logic here...

Men would never use a flowery, brightly colored, cute-little-animals-with-big-eyes theme.
Only women would use such a theme.
So...
All women want that theme?

Look, I'm sure (or at least I hope) that nothing in this thread was meant to offend. But (sorry) it kinda did.

Theory is actually a lot of what's needed in the Ubuntu Women project. Sure, we could make things a lot prettier, but why? If we want acceptance and comfort, doing something that (apparently) alienates the male majority is probably not the way to do it. For whatever reason, women are one the whole far less comfortable with computers. Frankly, that kind of thing won't help.

I don't want a fashionista to be my role model. I hate barbie. What I do want is someone who is smart, savvy, confident, and capable. If the person happens to be a woman, then that's even better.

So yeah, maybe we're sitting around rallying the troops. But how many women are on this forum? And how many women will it take to make a difference?

poofyhairguy
June 13th, 2005, 06:22 PM
For whatever reason, women are one the whole far less comfortable with computers. Frankly, that kind of thing won't help.



What will help?

poofyhairguy
June 13th, 2005, 06:22 PM
I have to tell you that as a woman, Linux can be pretty sterile at times.

I have to tell you, I don't understand what this means.

panickedthumb
June 13th, 2005, 11:15 PM
woo! Welcome Katie!

senorcheaposgato
June 14th, 2005, 01:43 AM
For whatever reason, women are one the whole far less comfortable with computers. Frankly, that kind of thing won't help.
What will help?

Hmm...good question. I honestly can't tell you. But then (contrary to popular belief) I'm not omniscient. Sorry.

Alright, here's a few suggestions. First, it's important to try to ignore these stereotypes. Note that I did not say eliminate. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do that. But honestly, I think we all know that it's pretty unrealistic to hope for that anytime soon. So try to ignore female stereotypes.

Second, it's important to try to ignore the male stereotypes as well. It's an unfortunate cultural reality (not universally true, but you get the point) that computers have been marketed to men. Look back at advertising for the early gaming platforms and home computers. Dad and son are playing the game while mom and daughter watch and cheer on the men. Why is that? I honestly don't know.

We have all been shown these images since the earliest days of personal computing. Does advertising have an effect? Obviously. But I don't think that's all of it.

Yes, as Kassetra pointed out, studies show that women are afraid of "breaking" their computers. Am I? Well...yeah, to a degree. It's more annoying than anything, but I don't want to lose files and have to deal with the whole mess. What can be done about that fear? Education.

Education--it's a wonderful thing, isn't it? Teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever, you know the story. Until women feel comfortable in forums like this, without fear of stereotypes or condescension, that education will be slow. Everyone fears the unknown.

So I guess what they always said at the end of GI Joe is true--Knowing is half the battle!

poofyhairguy
June 14th, 2005, 06:12 AM
Alright, here's a few suggestions. First, it's important to try to ignore these stereotypes. Note that I did not say eliminate. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do that. But honestly, I think we all know that it's pretty unrealistic to hope for that anytime soon. So try to ignore female stereotypes.

Ok. I'll personally try.


Second, it's important to try to ignore the male stereotypes as well. It's an unfortunate cultural reality (not universally true, but you get the point) that computers have been marketed to men. Look back at advertising for the early gaming platforms and home computers. Dad and son are playing the game while mom and daughter watch and cheer on the men. Why is that? I honestly don't know.

Ever since the Genesis beat out the great Super Nintendo because of Mortal Combat blood and football games, games have been targeted to guys. For them we are an easy sell for some reason. Plus at some level, its like cars with some young males. A status thing.


We have all been shown these images since the earliest days of personal computing. Does advertising have an effect? Obviously. But I don't think that's all of it.


Me neither. Probably a sum of wholes. But some trends repeat themselves so much its hard to know when the advertising/stereotypes end and reality begins.

lakcaj
June 14th, 2005, 06:47 AM
Obviously Sapo was just trying to encourage the initiation of some sort of project that some of the "Ubuntu Women" could collaborate on. What is the essential problem with Sapo suggesting that it might be fun to create a physical and appreciable project?

henriette_holm
June 14th, 2005, 02:43 PM
What is the essential problem with Sapo suggesting that it might be fun to create a physical and appreciable project?
As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely nothing wrong with suggesting new projects - except for branding it a "women's project". How many of the other packages you download via synaptic has a "suited for women / made by women" in the description? None - as far as I'm aware.

To me Ubuntu Women is about promoting the general use of Ubuntu Linux among women - and the use of computers in general I suppose. I don't know about the rest of the women in here but I'm fed up with:

1) guy's assuming that NO woman can use computers as well - or even better - as themselves.
2) sales assistances in the local computer store trying to sell you a computer because "it looks cute" - not telling you anything about what's hiding inside it.
3) everyone around me treating me like a "freak" because I just happend to know about computers - and I'm a woman.

- Henriette

mike998
June 14th, 2005, 06:01 PM
http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/index.html
The above is a how-to (don't you love linux documentation) about encouraging women to use Linux.

It can be hard for women to use linux because of the gender roles that are followed by our society. Ultimately, it is best to just treat women as normal people. This also means respecting their strengths and weaknesses - of which we ALL have many.

kassetra
June 15th, 2005, 04:56 AM
1) guy's assuming that NO woman can use computers as well - or even better - as themselves.
2) sales assistances in the local computer store trying to sell you a computer because "it looks cute" - not telling you anything about what's hiding inside it.
3) everyone around me treating me like a "freak" because I just happend to know about computers - and I'm a woman.

- Henriette

1. Oh, so you've worked in comp sci research before?
2. "So, how about this cute widdle vaio, eh?" ... "No, I told you, I wanted the alienware." ... "But that's only for FPS gamers!!" ... grrrrrrrr.
3. "But HONEY! You'll NEVER get a man by being smart and not letting him fix your computer." "Aunt Rachel, please, please... don't ever talk to me again."

poofyhairguy
June 15th, 2005, 08:01 AM
2. "So, how about this cute widdle vaio, eh?" ... "No, I told you, I wanted the alienware." ... "But that's only for FPS gamers!!" ... grrrrrrrr.


Alienware is overpriced junk. I like my cheap Viao.

(I know that isn't point, I just got my feeling hurt a little).

henriette_holm
June 15th, 2005, 11:57 PM
1. Oh, so you've worked in comp sci research before?
Still am. I'm doing a ph.d. in computational chemistry (ok, no need to hide - I'm not as weird as it sounds ;-) )


1. "So, how about this cute widdle vaio, eh?" ... "No, I told you, I wanted the alienware." ... "But that's only for FPS gamers!!" ... grrrrrrrr.
2. "But HONEY! You'll NEVER get a man by being smart and not letting him fix your computer." "Aunt Rachel, please, please... don't ever talk to me again."
YES - I'm not the only one :grin:

-Henriette

subterrific
June 29th, 2005, 10:34 PM
Yes, as Kassetra pointed out, studies show that women are afraid of "breaking" their computers. Am I? Well...yeah, to a degree. It's more annoying than anything, but I don't want to lose files and have to deal with the whole mess. What can be done about that fear? Education.

Education--it's a wonderful thing, isn't it? Teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever, you know the story. Until women feel comfortable in forums like this, without fear of stereotypes or condescension, that education will be slow. Everyone fears the unknown.

This got me thinking. Everyone is afraid of doing something wrong, or maybe encountering some issue they can't solve especially when trying something new. What can be done to reduce these fears?


Let someone try Ubuntu without having to commit to it. The Live CD does a wonderful job of this. My Mom is using Mac OS 9 still because she doesn't want things to change or pay for costly upgrades. Next time I visit, I plan on bringing a PPC Live CD to let her try Ubuntu and show her that she can still run her old apps inside Mac-on-Linux. Are there any other things that could help besides the Live CD?
Show people how to help themselves. Teaching people how to, for example, use man pages or search google or these forums. Having that sense of accomplishment when you fix something yourself is one of the joys of learning something new.
Let people know about these forums, mailing lists, or IRC as a place to ask questions when they can't figure something out on their own. Teaching people how to ask questions is very important also. One of the most fun things about learning Linux is feeling like you're joining a community. Just having groups like Ubuntu Women is helping with this.
Show people how they can get involved. I really enjoy feeling that I am contributing something to Ubuntu. I try to spend time answering questions on IRC and I report bugs through bugzilla. There are many ways people can contribute, do we have a list?


On the topic of education, I remember when I got my first computer in 1986. It was a Mac SE and it came with this tutorial that I think Apple did in Hypercard. It taught you how to use a mouse (double-click, single-click), menus, icons, etc. These were all new concepts when the Mac came out. It was really well done and actually fun to watch and do. Something like this could be done for Ubuntu with Flash using vnc2swf (http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/). It could highlight things people might be unfamiliar with when coming to Ubuntu or Linux in general, like software packages, update-manager, etc.

Any more ideas?

sapo
July 3rd, 2005, 12:27 AM
Obviously Sapo was just trying to encourage the initiation of some sort of project that some of the "Ubuntu Women" could collaborate on. What is the essential problem with Sapo suggesting that it might be fun to create a physical and appreciable project?


At least one that understood my intentions...

If you all think that i came up with this idea cause women are just good washing dishes and cooking its better to just close this thread and forget that i ever had this idea.

Almost all women that i know uses animals, flowers, powerpuff girls as wallpaper...

My ex-girfriend had a keyboar with eyes and his mouse was like a teddy bear... or maybe.. "teddy mice" :roll:

I just tried to say if we had at least one theme, some wallpapers, and something for women.. they could use it and say "oh, this theme is so cute.. i love it"

i think you all have seen kassetra's desktop.. tell me.. what she had as wallpaper? what did her icons look like?

if you never saw it, take a look here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=297&catid=member&imageuser=7047

so.. i ve not created this thread to say that men are better than women.. dont get the opposite meaning of my intentions ](*,)

subterrific
July 3rd, 2005, 03:11 AM
The problem is not that you're suggesting the idea of creating some project for Ubuntu Women. The problem is that you're implying that women are one dimensional and they all like pink, flowers, cute animals, etc. Stereotypes are offensive because they belittle individuals. For example, say you don't like sports, lots of men don't. However, I could say you're not a real man because you aren't into sports, or fast cars, or lifting weights. I could say that you're a nerd or a geek for using a computer. These are all stereotypes, and when you use them you can offend, not to mention it makes you look ignorant. Apologize and then get to know some of the Ubuntu Women before making a suggestion about what they should like to do. Some of them might enjoy making a theme, others might want to write some code or hack on the kernel.

sapo
July 3rd, 2005, 04:14 AM
The problem is not that you're suggesting the idea of creating some project for Ubuntu Women. The problem is that you're implying that women are one dimensional and they all like pink, flowers, cute animals, etc. Stereotypes are offensive because they belittle individuals. For example, say you don't like sports, lots of men don't. However, I could say you're not a real man because you aren't into sports, or fast cars, or lifting weights. I could say that you're a nerd or a geek for using a computer. These are all stereotypes, and when you use them you can offend, not to mention it makes you look ignorant. Apologize and then get to know some of the Ubuntu Women before making a suggestion about what they should like to do. Some of them might enjoy making a theme, others might want to write some code or hack on the kernel.


ok..

Sorry ubuntu women, you dont want and dont need flowers in your desktop.

Hope you all help in the Ubuntu development.

Now please, some moderator close this thread, i ve had too much of it already. :roll:

scourge
July 3rd, 2005, 02:01 PM
My 2 cents:

You can't have it both ways: you can't create something specifically for women without thinking about what a typical woman wants. Sure, there are women who like spraying blood and blowing **** up. But that fact has to be ignored if you're creating a game for women. Why? Because the maturity of women don't care for blood, guts and explosions.

So you have to use stereotypes. The big question is "which stereotypes are valid and useful and which ones are not?". Think about Cosmopolitan (the magazine) for example: it's so full of stereotypes that it seems almost anti-feminist, but still it's read by hundreds of millions of people all around the world. Or how about Playboy? It's even worse (a lot worse), it's outright screaming at its target audience: "you are a sexist and simple-minded pig, that's just how all men are". Does that hurt Playboy's economy? Hell no.

My point is that in order to successfully create a product for either gender, one has to admit that men and women are different and that there are a lot of very useful stereotypes.

subterrific
July 3rd, 2005, 08:42 PM
You can't have it both ways: you can't create something specifically for women without thinking about what a typical woman wants. Sure, there are women who like spraying blood and blowing **** up. But that fact has to be ignored if you're creating a game for women. Why? Because the maturity of women don't care for blood, guts and explosions.Here you go assuming that you know what women want and you're an authority on what a typical woman wants. I'd counter by saying the majority of people don't care for blood, guts, and explosions it has nothing to do with women.


So you have to use stereotypes. The big question is "which stereotypes are valid and useful and which ones are not?". Think about Cosmopolitan (the magazine) for example: it's so full of stereotypes that it seems almost anti-feminist, but still it's read by hundreds of millions of people all around the world. Or how about Playboy? It's even worse (a lot worse), it's outright screaming at its target audience: "you are a sexist and simple-minded pig, that's just how all men are". Does that hurt Playboy's economy? Hell no.Cosmo and Playboy have target audencies, they are by no means a majority of women or men. Supposedly the Bible is the most popular book in the world. Does that make everyone Christian? Maybe we should suggest some Bible themed projects for Ubuntu Women? Comso selling a few million copies has nothing to do with Ubuntu Women or women in general for that matter.


My point is that in order to successfully create a product for either gender, one has to admit that men and women are different and that there are a lot of very useful stereotypes.Before making that point, you should ask yourself: How many successful products have I created?

A quick google search disproves your point:
http://www.google.com/search?q=creating+a+successful+product+gender

Second result:
http://www.rcss.ed.ac.uk/sigis/public/theme/design/1

I recommend reading the section entitled:
Avoiding sterotypes, understanding specific groups.

tread
July 3rd, 2005, 09:08 PM
1. "So, how about this cute widdle vaio, eh?" ... "No, I told you, I wanted the alienware." ... "But that's only for FPS gamers!!" ... grrrrrrrr.
2. "But HONEY! You'll NEVER get a man by being smart and not letting him fix your computer."


Now I feel stereotyped. Honestly, we aren't all bad :)

sapo
July 3rd, 2005, 11:18 PM
why is this thread still open? i think that as the creator of the thread i can ask it to be close.. mods.. where are you?

i m tired of this bullshiting... ](*,)

tread
July 3rd, 2005, 11:46 PM
why is this thread still open? i think that as the creator of the thread i can ask it to be close.. mods.. where are you?

Actually, I don't think you can, it wouldn't be fair to others who might want to voice their opinions. You can't start a thread, and then ask for it to be closed when you feel tired of it.

The thread can be closed, but only if the moderators think it violates the code of conduct for the forum.

sapo
July 4th, 2005, 04:16 AM
Actually, I don't think you can, it wouldn't be fair to others who might want to voice their opinions. You can't start a thread, and then ask for it to be closed when you feel tired of it.

The thread can be closed, but only if the moderators think it violates the code of conduct for the forum.


ALL FORUMS that i m used to post.. the thread "owner" can ask for it to be closed.. i dont know why it should be different here..

My idea was for a CONSTRUTIVE discussion.. but what do we have here?

What good can come out from this thread? how is it going to help anything in this forum with these opinions posted so far... for me is enough.. and is was a useless effort and a waste of time....

senorcheaposgato
July 24th, 2005, 09:28 AM
My idea was for a CONSTRUTIVE discussion.. but what do we have here?

What good can come out from this thread? how is it going to help anything in this forum with these opinions posted so far... for me is enough.. and is was a useless effort and a waste of time....

Sapo - I'm sorry you feel that way. I know that I did not mean my posts in this thread as a personal attack on you, and I'm very sorry if that's the way I sounded. I hate to try to speak for everyone on the thread, but I'd hope that everyone responded in the same manner.

Basically, I'd like to personally apologize for making you feel like you're under attack. It seems to me that you just ended up as the scapegoat for the whole discussion--since you started the thread, everyone tagged you as the troublemaker.

(Yeah, that would be generalizing and assuming things with no evidence to back it up.)

At any rate, I don't think that this thread has been a waste of time, and I do think it has been constructive. At the very least we've all aired our opinions, heard what other users think, and hopefully taken another look at our own thoughts.

Once again, I apologize. I never meant to offend or upset you. Is there any way I can make amends?

pet
September 8th, 2005, 06:44 PM
ok I will admit it...purple ....I want something purple dammit :) ....rainbow would be good too. Unfortunately I couldnt make anything to save my life lol

poofyhairguy
September 8th, 2005, 11:45 PM
ok I will admit it...purple ....I want something purple dammit :) ....rainbow would be good too. Unfortunately I couldnt make anything to save my life lol

Something like this is the reason I did not close the thread.

DancingSun
September 9th, 2005, 12:57 AM
I think sapo had the right idea, although he might need to work on the wording...we all know that women are more sensitive than guys on these kind of stuff, right? ;-)

Getting women to start on Ubuntu related projects is an excellent way to introduce Ubuntu to "a women's touch". Or else all you're getting is a product that is designed with too many assumptions of what a user would want from a guy's point of view. Even if you're just compiling a theme pack or just links of themes that you, as a woman, think that other girls would like is a good start.

It would give me a chance to get in touch with my feminine side as well.

Fabulous! Ahem....I mean, rock on!

aveline
September 10th, 2005, 05:26 AM
*waves to my pet* hehe thats my other lover & i agree w/her lol. would love some rainbow theme in ubuntu just cuz i love em & cuz well... call me a stereotypical lesbian? heh

read the whole thread & tho i see sapo's pov its hard to put into words what i think of all this too.

to address one point, and by no means is this an attack on anyone, the fact is that some of us as people in general prefer not fixing things that are borked. Especially in computers. I used to enjoy tinkering w/mine & the OS/hardware. Shrug after a while I got to a point where I found it trying on my nerves to tweak/bork stuff & then have to fix it. I'm at a point where, personally, i just want the damn thing to work period. I only get frustrated now if something breaks. Thats just me tho although I'm sure some others feel similarly. Maybe cuz I'm geting old? idk

aveline

BinaryDigit
September 19th, 2005, 01:41 PM
Ok, my 2 cents:
As a women growing up around computers (I'm 25 now) I've always just "done it". I went to college in 1998 and the advisor said "hey let me put you in a computer science class". I had trouble, but stuck with it throughout college. I finally got my degree 5 years later, and stayed at the job that I had part time doing tech support for the campus. I learned alot about software, hardware you name it. My friend came over my house one time and helped me build a computer from scratch. I loved it. He didn't treat me any differently because I was a woman. After my college job, I applied for a full time position (jr. technician, since it was the only thing I could get my hands on at the time). It was a small company with about 35 people....4 were women...2 of those women were managers, 2 were jr. techs including myself. You know what I liked about it? The men didn't treat me any differently than themselves. I loved that. I worked there for about 8 months, didn't like the job... so I got my current job. Doing tech support/engineering job (hopefully I'll get out of this customer support type career since I don't care for it) and now I'm part of a small tech staff; all 6 of us. 5 are men, I'm the first female tech they've ever had at the company (company has been around for aboue 25 years). You know what? They don't treat me any differently. I realize that and am glad for it.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that you cannot treat women interested in computers or linux feel like they are aliens. I first read this thread and was furious...but then later on I kind of understood the intention and realized he just misworded what his intention was. (I'm trying not to come across as a super feminist.) They might like teddy bears and flowers in their house, but not their desktop themes. Again, some women are different. I'm a woman that's not completely on either end of the scope alone...I love building computers, fixing them, configuring them and learning how everything ties into one another...I love fixing stuff if it breaks, and have no problem asking a man how to do it so I can learn for myself next time. But as well I do love art and photography and shopping and handbags and shoes. I'm actually trying to get back into my creative side by learning HTML and CSS and attempting to do website design.

If you want to create a project for Ubuntu women, you cannot gender-base it. Any project on here that is created is not gender based, since software is not gender based.

catohornet
September 20th, 2005, 11:49 AM
](*,) I'm new to this forum and writing this type of code in general. I would love to contribute and yes I am a woman. I am looking for relatively short open source projects to work on to gain programming and design experience. So where do I start? what is involved in writing/creating something useful in Ubuntu for everyone. I know a few men who like cute desktop gadgets and icons as much as a woman would.

Thanks for your input to my inquiry.

Havoc
September 20th, 2005, 12:46 PM
Well, your first try would be HERE (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyGoals) .You don't need to be a programmer to help in there.If you're an artist, then you could either look into the Desktop Artwork (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopArtwork) goal, or the Sound Events (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundEvents) goal.But, you don't have to be an artist to contribute.Actually, you don't need any qualifications.Just a will to help, and an open mind.You could translate, or make suggestions.Now, if you can actually help, go for it!
You could even make some extra money by working on Breezy Bounties (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties) .

I just thought it was nice of you to ask! :-)

Jun-Dai
September 22nd, 2005, 08:13 PM
I think there are two separate ideas going on that have some merit, but in combination they are fairly appalling.

1. It would be nice to make women feel more comfortable in the Ubuntu community.
2. It would be nice if Ubuntu had some cute themes (I, as a male, would certainly like to see some. I have no objection to flowers or teddy bears).

It would not be unreasonable to develop a Christian or Muslim theme for Ubuntu, as at least those groups willingly adhere to a common culture that we can base the theme on. Trying to develop a theme for women, however, is far more problematic, because women do not share a common "culture" per se--the closest you can come is to find cultural elements that have strong associations with women in a particular culture. To define a Barbie theme wouldn't necessarily be an invalid suggestion, but to think of it as the theme for women to use in Ubuntu would be, because there are some men that like Barbie and many women that don't; Barbie is not a shared culture among women--above all, however, we really should not be trying to reinforce these associations, which is exactly what we would be doing by creating a Barbie theme for women.

This thread has been useful, not least because it provides the opportunity to criticize some ideas specifically, rather than vague general problems. I'm quite encouraged by some of the responses.

aysiu
September 22nd, 2005, 08:39 PM
I think there are two separate ideas going on that have some merit, but in combination they are fairly appalling.

1. It would be nice to make women feel more comfortable in the Ubuntu community.
2. It would be nice if Ubuntu had some cute themes (I, as a male, would certainly like to see some. I have no objection to flowers or teddy bears). I agree. The whole reason this thread ended up all heated was the original assumption that #1 and #2 had anything to do with each other. I think I'm probably not the only male who finds the brown default Ubuntu theme quite ugly. I don't consider it a male theme. I consider it an ugly theme. Likewise, a cutesy teddy bear/flowers theme I wouldn't consider a womanly theme but rather a girly theme.

Nobody claims that Mac computers alienate women (or men, for that matter), but there's nothing definitely feminine or masculine about the aqua/chrome metal themes Apple favors.

Bottom line: brown is ugly. A small minority will inevitably like whatever horrible color/feel Ubuntu chooses as its default theme, but I think most people would agree brown is just not that appealing to most people of any gender.

That said, what's so difficult about going to Gnome-look and downloading and installing a new theme? I think that's what most people do anyway. If you use Ubuntu's default theme on a regular basis, please raise your hand... anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

If you want to encourage women in Linux, following these guidelines and suggestions (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/) would be a good start. I can't imagine most potential women Linux users think, "God, I would love everything about Linux. Too bad they chose this ugly brown theme. Linux isn't women-friendly. I think I'll go back to Windows now."

P.S. Oops. I just realized someone else already linked to the "encourage women in Linux" document (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=212639&postcount=21). Too bad nobody paid attention to it.

urbandryad
September 27th, 2005, 08:47 PM
maybe a women 'THEME' is the problem. Rather, lets just try out a generic project idea, and have it be only women who work on it. That way its an ubuntu 'women' project, but it'll be usable by multiple users?

Pesonally, I'd like to see another Music or Multimedia program based in Ubuntu-Gnome, that can rip CD's, play CD's, play music files, play movies and radio, manage music downloads and organize sort the music files, allow filename and organization within music folders, and sync with iPod/MP3 players and upload to them, etc etc.

What do people think about this? I know NOTHING about programming, but as an idea, maybe the ubuntu women can work on something like this? :3 Any other ideas that the ubuntu women can work on:

A graphics/multimedia release of Ubuntu (Like Collage Ubuntu, but more on Multimedia?)

Programs that run for ubuntu like simple paint and mini-apps for the panels. Like widgets. I've never done any programming before. But it'd be fun to learn to make my own mini games.

Maybe as a project, ubuntu women can TEACH other women in this forum how to program? You can start with me, how do I start learning to make my own program? C++ or Perl or Java or all three or none of these? I can teach women in turn to do html and webpage publishing, use Word programs, and the like. :3

What do you say?

BinaryDigit
September 27th, 2005, 11:28 PM
maybe a women 'THEME' is the problem. Rather, lets just try out a generic project idea, and have it be only women who work on it. That way its an ubuntu 'women' project, but it'll be usable by multiple users?

Pesonally, I'd like to see another Music or Multimedia program based in Ubuntu-Gnome, that can rip CD's, play CD's, play music files, play movies and radio, manage music downloads and organize sort the music files, allow filename and organization within music folders, and sync with iPod/MP3 players and upload to them, etc etc.

What do people think about this? I know NOTHING about programming, but as an idea, maybe the ubuntu women can work on something like this? :3 Any other ideas that the ubuntu women can work on:

A graphics/multimedia release of Ubuntu (Like Collage Ubuntu, but more on Multimedia?)

Programs that run for ubuntu like simple paint and mini-apps for the panels. Like widgets. I've never done any programming before. But it'd be fun to learn to make my own mini games.

Maybe as a project, ubuntu women can TEACH other women in this forum how to program? You can start with me, how do I start learning to make my own program? C++ or Perl or Java or all three or none of these? I can teach women in turn to do html and webpage publishing, use Word programs, and the like. :3

What do you say?

I agree :) Although I did programming in college (cs degree) I haven't programmed in ages. This would be a good way to learn again and have women help each other!

m3rna
October 12th, 2005, 04:32 AM
-_____________-;;;;


What. The hell.
I am 16 years old.
I'm a girl.
I played with dolls when I was 4.
They now collect dust.
I use Linux, when I'm not busy doing crap on my Windows OS.

I think it's great that you think the women users of ubuntu to have their own project, theme, whatever, to distinguish themselves more, and show that women are able to be just as big of geeks as guys.

BUT!

Wtf is it with the flowers and the dolls nonsense? If I make an Ubuntu theme for women, it sure as crap isn't going to involve flowers, dolls, and pink. It's going to involve the symbol for women, black and green, and desktops with hot guys on them. In fact, just draw our version of Ubuntu-tan. Our version would be a hot, african dude. Wearing about as much clothes as the current ubuntu-tan.

THAT is what the women's project would be. Not silly flowers and emoticons. If I were to do that in the real world, to show that I'm a woman and involved with the community, I'd be laughed at. Great that guys want cute themes as well, but they are perfectly capable of making it. I think women should do what they really want.

Hot guys and awesome themes unbiased to gender. *cough*

aysiu
October 12th, 2005, 04:46 AM
Wtf is it with the flowers and the dolls nonsense? If I make an Ubuntu theme for women, it sure as crap isn't going to involve flowers, dolls, and pink. It's going to involve the symbol for women, black and green, and desktops with hot guys on them. In fact, just draw our version of Ubuntu-tan. Our version would be a hot, african dude. Wearing about as much clothes as the current ubuntu-tan. Some forum members apparently thought women and girls were the same thing. They're quite different.

m3rna
October 12th, 2005, 10:23 PM
Some forum members apparently thought women and girls were the same thing. They're quite different.


Umm...last I remember, this thread was called Idea for Ubuntu Women project ?

I know they're different. I just think it's kind of strange that a male user posted this thread for women to do something to become more distinguished members of the ubuntu community, and suggest things like flowers, pink, and dolls, because that's what chicks like. *shrugs* I'm a girl, or a woman, whatever you call a teenager, and I know for a fact I wouldn't like any of those things as themes, and would be kind of irked to have those be the female options.

(especially since I know more than one guy who would probably use those instead of the girls)