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vega44
June 2nd, 2005, 05:53 PM
you people are realy going to sit back and let microsoft take over? sooner or later they are going to take over linux and im sure they will banned form the USA. you are leting them take over ........

kvidell
June 2nd, 2005, 06:04 PM
you people are realy going to sit back and let microsoft take over? sooner or later they are going to take over linux and im sure they will banned form the USA. you are leting them take over ........
And how do you propse they would "take over" linux? It's pretty hard to move something from open sourced to closed, generally speaking.

I don't think they're taking anything over. If anything Novell's going to stamp them out in the next few years with all of their new server stuff they're doing with SuSE.
$500 gets you a pack of software good for 3 servers, with 10,000 user capacities each and 5 client-side desktops.
Around $700 from MSFT gets you One SBS with about a 50 user capacity and no client-side desktops.

That's pretty pwned if you ask me.. The company I work for is an authorized Novell retailer and representative office... We're slowly switching all of our clients over from MSFT-SBS to Novell... or will be soon.
Have to figure out a way of gently doing it :)
- Kev

Optimal Aurora
June 2nd, 2005, 06:35 PM
How do you propose to do it? Because just like kvidell said its hard to move to closed source from open source... And heck there needs to be some body that is out there that can make linux be on top of the market especially after these news articles are posted Microsoft Adopts web file styles for office (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4603539.stm) and this happens XML Patented to Microsoft in the US (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/applications/0,39020384,39200357,00.htm) and the way my thread talking about the patent looks, no one really cares about what microsoft is doing... Like in the movie "pirates of silicon valley", Microsoft and Apple were competing against the big brother at the time IBM, well times have changed especially now since microsoft is big brother and linux is little brother... Microsoft doesn't want what they did to IBM to come back and happen to them too...

GTKpower
June 2nd, 2005, 06:37 PM
you people are realy going to sit back and let microsoft take over? sooner or later they are going to take over linux and im sure they will banned form the USA. you are leting them take over ........


LOL, who are you, and what are you talking about?

You sound like a 6-year old.

Microsoft cannot "take over" Linux. Linux is open source. No one holds any sort of patent on the code. As soon as anyone lays any kind of legal claim to the code (some have tried and failed miserably in the courts), that particular part of code will be re-written over, say, a weekend or two, and be renamed accordingly.

kvidell
June 2nd, 2005, 06:41 PM
LOL, who are you, and what the hell are you talking about?
You sound like a 6-year old.
...
Moron.In the words of Poofyhairedguy: Play nice.

He has his opinion and while most of us see it differently, he's entitled to it.

With the way MSFT does things it's pretty easy to assume that that would be their next logical move.
And while there are rumours floating around that MSFT would want to take over RHEL (Which is pretty far-fetched and a really bad move on their part if they did), that still is only a small piece of the pie.

If MSFT wants to try to go and "take over" linux, let them try. They'll fail at it miserably, and Bill G. will make some pish-posh statement regarding how it wasn't a failure, just a bump in his master plan, and we'll probably only see futile gestures from then on out.

Otherwise... Meh :)
- Kev

jdodson
June 2nd, 2005, 10:15 PM
stopping open source and gnu/linux is like trying to stop a train that just came off its tracks going 100 MPH, it will not happen in either of our lifetimes.

gnu/linux is already whipping ass and taking names in the server department.

gnome is poised to rock the desktop market all the way to the casbah.

firefox already is the best(argueable) browser on the market.

we have a sweet kernel, a sweet desktop, many sweet applications. and it keeps getting better.

wake up and smell the bits, gnu/linux owns.

jdong
June 2nd, 2005, 10:19 PM
With regards to the escalating tension, let's not resort to direct personal attacks.

Maintain your cool... This is a healthy discussion and I like to see it continue.


thanks!

vega44
June 2nd, 2005, 10:20 PM
stopping open source and gnu/linux is like trying to stop a train that just came off its tracks going 100 MPH, it will not happen in either of our lifetimes.

gnu/linux is already whipping ass and taking names in the server department.

gnome is poised to rock the desktop market all the way to the casbah.

firefox already is the best(argueable) browser on the market.

we have a sweet kernel, a sweet desktop, many sweet applications. and it keeps getting better.

wake up and smell the bits, gnu/linux owns.

look who has the money, the power and is now a bloody knight. he all ready took over the gaming maket. and has been the lead software company in the world. mirosoft is a threat never forget that. OWND

microsoft got you beat on google to.
microsoft 254,000,000
linux 177,000,000

somuchfortheafter
June 2nd, 2005, 10:26 PM
lowlux, are you a troller because you seem like on... if you are not i find it hard that someone could have made it past the stage of installing linux themeselves and still manage to keep the narrow minded paranoia you have...

jdong
June 2nd, 2005, 10:30 PM
microsoft got you beat on google to.
microsoft 254,000,000
linux 177,000,000
This is very statistically unsound. So more web pages contain the word "microsoft" than Linux.

"Internet Explorer": 39,000,000
"Firefox" : 76,100,000


Does that mean that Firefox got IE beat? no!

vega44
June 2nd, 2005, 10:33 PM
IE is dead. if any one is still using IE then they most be under a rock.

jdong
June 2nd, 2005, 10:37 PM
IE is dead. if any one is still using IE then they most be under a rock.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Believe me, I want IE dead as much as you do.


But google searching only shows you how many times the word was mentioned on the internet... it's nothing about the popularity of the OS.

kvidell
June 2nd, 2005, 10:38 PM
IE is dead. if any one is still using IE then they most be under a rock.
Ironic you should say that :-P

So what if they're a larger group? They're all centralized. We have great numbers spread out doing many good things.
It'd be hard to get rid of all of us. I'm going to go ahead and say impossible.

Like I said: Novell is poised for the kill. All they need to do is a little more marketing and publicity and they'll be able to smash anything if they play their cards right.
My fiance has all of the books and DVDs on the topic at his place (Arthemys), if you'd like me to unleash a large post on you I can have him rant about it for a little while later on :-P

Microsoft also is not at the lead of the gaming market. I'd say Sony with their PS2 and PSP are.
Sure, the XBOX and the XECUTOR2 are a lot easier to mod than any PS2, but that's modifying the statistic. That isn't brute market share.

Besides, XBox's run a hacked Windows 2000 and you can't install your own apps on it (Say, a virus scanner).
What's stopping someone with a hacked XBOX from leaking a virus on to XBOX Live and demoloshing all of those clean and preened XBOXs out there on the web?
Nothing.
- Kev

vega44
June 2nd, 2005, 10:39 PM
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Believe me, I want IE dead as much as you do.


But google searching only shows you how many times the word was mentioned on the internet... it's nothing about the popularity of the OS.
mirosoft even said use firefox its safer.....

kvidell
June 2nd, 2005, 10:40 PM
mirosoft even said use firefox its safer.....
Can you give us a link backing that up? I'd be very interested in seeing it.
- K

vega44
June 2nd, 2005, 10:42 PM
Ironic you should say that :-P

So what if they're a larger group? They're all centralized. We have great numbers spread out doing many good things.
It'd be hard to get rid of all of us. I'm going to go ahead and say impossible.

Like I said: Novell is poised for the kill. All they need to do is a little more marketing and publicity and they'll be able to smash anything if they play their cards right.
My fiance has all of the books and DVDs on the topic at his place (Arthemys), if you'd like me to unleash a large post on you I can have him rant about it for a little while later on :-P

Microsoft also is not at the lead of the gaming market. I'd say Sony with their PS2 and PSP are.
Sure, the XBOX and the XECUTOR2 are a lot easier to mod than any PS2, but that's modifying the statistic. That isn't brute market share.

Besides, XBox's run a hacked Windows 2000 and you can't install your own apps on it (Say, a virus scanner).
What's stopping someone with a hacked XBOX from leaking a virus on to XBOX Live and demoloshing all of those clean and preened XBOXs out there on the web?
Nothing.
- Kev

What's stopping someone with a hacked XBOX from leaking a virus on to XBOX Live and demoloshing all of those clean and preened XBOXs out there on the web?
Nothing.

i was thinking about that a while back......... why has it not been done yet?

occy8
June 2nd, 2005, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlux
IE is dead. if any one is still using IE then they most be under a rock.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Believe me, I want IE dead as much as you do.


the stats don't have to be correct. My Firefox Ubuntu machine says its IE6 and Windows otherwise my bank won't let me in.

codejunkie
June 2nd, 2005, 10:47 PM
a little off the topic but i was reading an article somewhere think it was digg that microsoft already has and are still developing there own versions of linux with the linux core and microsoft's driver support and it is 100% compatible with all ms apps does any body know if this is true bs or just another rumor.

KiwiNZ
June 2nd, 2005, 10:50 PM
I am finding these endless debates about the evil Microsoft boring and tiresome .

Tall poppies , this is what it all amounts to.

In the World of IT there is a million more interesting topics to discuss, EG why to magazines use that horrible gum on the cover disk ?

poofyhairguy
June 2nd, 2005, 11:12 PM
look who has the money, the power and is now a bloody knight. he all ready took over the gaming maket.

In my mind the Xbox was a not a big success. After all is said and done, the Xbox 1 worldwide is only a little above the penetration of the Gamecube (that had a fraction of its marketing budget) and isn't anywhere near the numbers of the PS2 (the most successful non handheld console of all time).


and has been the lead software company in the world. mirosoft is a threat never forget that. OWND


true. I personally believe that the best way Microsoft could hurt Linux is by releasing their own version. they can use their knowledge to fix the pre GPL wine and release a Linux (or heck even a BSD would work) that is a:

1.Perfectly compatible with Windows apps

2. Have native programs like the newest Office

For true OSS nerds this will not be acceptable (to me neither) but to MANY people it would be the best of both worlds and the MS Linux would be the dominate one in a year or two. Then MS could set standards with brute force (IE style) and bend the OSS community. Only zealots would care and MS would get lots of development for free.

This is the companies best course of action, but they won't do it for a while because the old guard that runs the place hates OSS. If they ever go away and new blood gets in there look for new threats to Linux outside of the courts.

GTKpower
June 2nd, 2005, 11:41 PM
look who has the money, the power and is now a bloody knight. he all ready took over the gaming maket. and has been the lead software company in the world. mirosoft is a threat never forget that. OWND

microsoft got you beat on google to.
microsoft 254,000,000
linux 177,000,000


LOL.

Uh . . . I just told you (and it's a fact) that there is no legal way whatsoever that Bill can make any claim to Linux. Windows has absolutely nothing to do with Linux. Both are based on completely different code. Nor does Bill want anything to do with Linux. If you've had a pulse for the last few years, you'd know that Microsoft has been campaigning AGAINST Linux. Do you even understand WHAT Linux is? Do you understand the legal implications of "open source"? Are you at all familiar with patent law? Or are you just trolling?

His lead in the software market means nothing when it comes to actual "ownership" of Linux.

Nor does he "own" the gaming market. The Sony PS2 is just as popular as the Xbox, and Nintendo's technology is equally impressive.

If you are talking in terms of publivly traded companies that sell Linux software, even if Bill were to have some sort of fiduciary interest in them, it would stil have no effect on the Linux code itself.

I'll grant that Bill has the "power", the "money" and plenty to spend on R&D, but he is completely powerless when it comes to Linux. Bill can certainly choose to implement Linux/Unix in some way, but he has no exclusive rights to it, and cannot prevent anyone else from implementing Linux/Unix.

Thanks for playing, though . . . .

Takis
June 3rd, 2005, 01:27 AM
you people are realy going to sit back and let microsoft take over? sooner or later they are going to take over linux and im sure they will banned form the USA. you are leting them take over ........

This really is a most entertaining thread. Lowlux, what would you have us do?

bored2k
June 3rd, 2005, 01:32 AM
In my mind the Xbox was a not a big success. After all is said and done, the Xbox 1 worldwide is only a little above the penetration of the Gamecube (that had a fraction of its marketing budget) and isn't anywhere near the numbers of the PS2 (the most successful non handheld console of all time).


I have to say I do not agree. I am not an XBX fanboy (I own a PS2), but in the long run I have to say it was a better product with not so good games. It excelled in graphics, its online LIVE! system is innovative, easy and very good (non free, but next-gen consoles are all going to be like this) and was a whole lot more than the gaming systems we all now. XBX resembles XP Media Center, and the whole built-in modem/hdd/cute system is awsome.

Leif
June 3rd, 2005, 01:42 AM
This really is a most entertaining thread. Lowlux, what would you have us do?

I'm guessing in between gems like "microsoft 0WNS J00" and "IE is dead", to have some fun while the nice people of the forums try to respond rationally.

bored2k
June 3rd, 2005, 01:53 AM
This is just a reminder:
Due to the fact that this thread can get quite trollish (we already had to moderate some pieces of it), we suggest that users interested in this thread express their feelings in a way that they can be useful to the community as well as respectful to the party you are against, not just "X will rule Y. Y can never take over X because X has super powers. X and Y will never be together". If this thread doesn't get any less productive, we might have to just pull the plug.

GTKpower
June 3rd, 2005, 01:56 AM
Well, I agree in keeping this thread relatively clean. I admit my tone was a bit harsh earlier.

As for Xbox and PS2. Xbox is the better console - as far as I know, it's more powerful in terms of its processing power.

But in terms of actual popularity, both consoles seem equal, with PS2 perhaps edging out Xbox.

Keep in mind, I've conceded that Xbox is the more powerful console. ;-) Xbox fanboys can put down their sticks, hehe. :) Xbox is one thing from MS I actually like.

Either way, both consoles are doing well, and competition means better quality games. PS2 is making the most of it's capabilities, and I've been quite impressed with it as well.

kvidell
June 3rd, 2005, 01:58 AM
This is just a reminder:
Due to the fact that this thread can get quite trollish (we already had to moderate some pieces of it), we suggest that users interested in this thread express their feelings in a way that they can be useful to the community as well as respectful to the party you are against, not just "X will rule Y. Y can never take over X because X has super powers. X and Y will never be together". If this thread doesn't get any less productive, we might have to just pull the plug.
But what if X rolls a good throw on a 20 sided and their chance to block....
(DISCLAIMER: I've never played DnD, so if you don't roll block rolls on a 20 sided I don't wanna hear about it :-P)

This thread is slightly more interesting than the standard "X > Y" threads because it's talking more about the companies behind the products, not just the products superiority or inferiority themselves.

Balancing numbers of users against numbers of money is an interesting way of looking at it.
Novell is a powerful company even though their stock is worth so little right now.
MSFT is a powerful company with poor buisness ethics and a mediocre share price.
Linux has no stocks. (As a hole. I guess RHEL and Novell do, but SuSE specifically does not)

- K

poofyhairguy
June 3rd, 2005, 01:59 AM
I have to say I do not agree. I am not an XBX fanboy (I own a PS2), but in the long run I have to say it was a better product with not so good games.


Oh hell yeah! I agree with you. PS2's were mostly crap in comparison- mine is a brick but my friend's XBox that are just as old run fine (and probably will for 5 years).

In video games though, the console with the most games sold wins. PS2 won this by a larger margin than any console since the first nintendo.

The good hardware in the Xbox is actually worse because:

A. It costs more. I bet now at the end of it all a PS2 costs Sony a least $30 less than an Xbox does to make. Hard drive is big part of that.

B. People buy Xboxs to make server, household emulators, media station and tons of other things that don't require buy games. Since this is the main goal the quality of the console is a bad thing and has lead to its overall semi-failure.

kvidell
June 3rd, 2005, 02:02 AM
Oh hell yeah! I agree with you. PS2's were mostly crap in comparison- mine is a brick but my friend's XBox that are just as old run fine (and probably will for 5 years).

In video games though, the console with the most games sold wins. PS2 won this by a larger margin than any console since the first nintendo.

The good hardware in the Xbox is actually worse because:

A. It costs more. I bet now at the end of it all a PS2 costs Sony a least $30 less than an Xbox does to make. Hard drive is big part of that.

B. People buy Xboxs to make server, household emulators, media station and tons of other things that don't require buy games. Since this is the main goal the quality of the console is a bad thing and has lead to its overall semi-failure.
Here here.
Our xbox has an XECUTOR2 in it and almost all we use it for is samba mounting the fileserver's shares and watching movies, stuff stored from the TiVO and playing MP3s with.
I think it's harddrive is virtually empty. Everything's on the raid server in the back of the house. hehe.
- Kev

az
June 3rd, 2005, 02:03 AM
Linux in itself is irrelevant. If microsoft or any company were to release a version of linux, that would not be a big deal.

The important part is whether the OS is free (as in liberty) or proprietary. If The Microsoft Company were to release another proprierary OS, it not not be as significant as if they released a free one.

Now, one strategy may be to release a version of the Microsoft Company's OS under some sort of open-source licence. If they make the licence "seem" open or free enough, that may draw some linux users and potentially harm the open source software movement. Many people do not care about the freedom aspect of FOSS. If they are given a seemingly free alternative, that may convince them that freedom is not as important as some other qualities.

poofyhairguy
June 3rd, 2005, 02:03 AM
But in terms of actual popularity, both consoles seem equal, with PS2 perhaps edging out Xbox..

Worldwide its a big edge. At the end of 2003:

http://hankfiles.pcvsconsole.com/answer.php?file=549

In 2004, out of the top 10 selling games the PS2 had 6.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/18/news_6116499.html

Twice as much (and much higher on the list on average) than MS. New halo was only thing in top five.

In the last generation of consoles, MS had its ass handed to it by Sony.

GTKpower
June 3rd, 2005, 02:03 AM
Open Source CAN (and does) make money, but it does so in terms of pay-for support and special deals/extra software for people involved in pay-for programs. Enterprise sales also drive this market, i.e., Novell SUSE.

So its making money in terms of service, and not necessarily direct sales. This model is proving effective, but in terms of long-term gains, it remains to be seen.

poofyhairguy
June 3rd, 2005, 02:05 AM
Now, one strategy may be to release a version of the Microsoft Company's OS under some sort of open-source licence. If they make the licence "seem" open or free enough, that may draw some linux users and potentially harm the open source software movement. Many people do not care about the freedom aspect of FOSS. If they are given a seemingly free alternative, that may convince them that freedom is not as important as some other qualities.

My point exactly. Maybe some token things, or Fork of BSD, whatever. I mean some people will never use MS again. Others use WINE everyday.

poofyhairguy
June 3rd, 2005, 02:07 AM
Here here.
Our xbox has an XECUTOR2 in it and almost all we use it for is samba mounting the fileserver's shares and watching movies, stuff stored from the TiVO and playing MP3s with.
I think it's harddrive is virtually empty. Everything's on the raid server in the back of the house. hehe.
- Kev

Lol. I hope the 360 gets hacked by poorly made games as well.

GTKpower
June 3rd, 2005, 02:08 AM
Worldwide its a big edge. At the end of 2003:

http://hankfiles.pcvsconsole.com/answer.php?file=549

In 2004, out of the top 10 selling games the PS2 had 6.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/18/news_6116499.html

Txice as much (and much higher on the list on average) than MS. New halo was only thing in top five.

In the last generation of consoles, MS had its ass handed to it by Sony.

Oh, I agree completely here. In terms of popularity, the issue is not raw processing power, but the kinds of games that are available. This is perhaps a matter of personal choice.

Personally, I'd buy an Xbox. I'm looking for power, and a few core games I'd keep coming back to, not hundreds of titles I'd want to own.

Personal taste, really. For instance, last I checked, Morrowind (one of my all-time favs) is available on Xbox and not PS2. If I didn't have a PC on which to play this RPG, I'd go for an Xbox, if it was a certain class/kind of game I wanted.

GTKpower
June 3rd, 2005, 02:14 AM
Linux in itself is irrelevant. If microsoft or any company were to release a version of linux, that would not be a big deal.

The important part is whether the OS is free (as in liberty) or proprietary. If The Microsoft Company were to release another proprierary OS, it not not be as significant as if they released a free one.

Now, one strategy may be to release a version of the Microsoft Company's OS under some sort of open-source licence. If they make the licence "seem" open or free enough, that may draw some linux users and potentially harm the open source software movement. Many people do not care about the freedom aspect of FOSS. If they are given a seemingly free alternative, that may convince them that freedom is not as important as some other qualities.

This makes alot of sense. But a "free OS" from Microsoft? What other MS sales would that drive? Would the advantage here be the opportunity to harm the rest of Linux in general, or the oportunity to derive some profit elsewhere that interest in this free MS operating system might generate?

Interesting . . . . .

Do you mean if MS would release a seemingly "free" version of Windows?

benplaut
June 3rd, 2005, 02:18 AM
<rant><troll=off><flamesheild=on)
seriously, guys- what do you have against Microsoft? If you don't like them, just don't use their products! Sure, you might think that Bi11 94735 I5 73h d3\/i1 (translation: Bill Gates is teh devil), but how has he really harmed you? Yes, many of you want 1inu>< 70 ru13 73h \/\/0r1D (translation: Linux to rule teh world), but what would you do then? Dismiss it as a monopoly and find a new os to latch on to!

Microsoft is a great software developer, but also, at one point, was a little nothing company that nobody knew about. IE was also the de-facto standard at one point. Eventually, if the time ever comes that Linux is the market leader, i assume the same thing would happen to it- the developers would not keep up with the latest features, and let the OS die a slow death (while keeping most of its market share).

Please stop the *&^%#@!$ trolling... it's getting really old...
</rant></troll></flamesheild><flamesheild=retain>

darkoptix
June 3rd, 2005, 05:26 AM
Well for the xbox things I can comment on because I am a leet xbox hacking machine... It's considered weird not to have a modded xbox unless you play on live where I live.
Personally, if you are going to buy a console right now(which IMO is not a great idea) get a xbox. The things opened up from modding a xbox over does anything a ps2 can do(anything linux wise, xbmc, emulators).
Now for the xbox live virus, a good idea would to make a virus that spread through halo 2 somehow (largest game played on live). This virus would then somehow unlock the xbox harddrive, rendering it impossible to boot anymore. :)
For the os that will ultimatly win the battle. OS X! I've only used a bit in a video class in school, but from my use, it is a well made os.
Face it, linux I think will never have flawless hardware support. Windows also won't(I can't install windows xp without some drivers that let me use my SATA drive... Linux does though.) Nothing can ever be perfect.

poofyhairguy
June 3rd, 2005, 05:39 AM
seriously, guys- what do you have against Microsoft?

Nothing really personally. Actually, I kinda like the fact I can get an xbox and make a great cheap server.

bored2k
June 3rd, 2005, 05:45 AM
Nothing really personally. Actually, I kinda like the fact I can get an xbox and make a great cheap server.
I giggle every time I think of installing a distro on an XBX 360..

nocturn
June 3rd, 2005, 07:54 AM
look who has the money, the power and is now a bloody knight. he all ready took over the gaming maket. and has been the lead software company in the world. mirosoft is a threat never forget that. OWND

microsoft got you beat on google to.
microsoft 254,000,000
linux 177,000,000

Microsoft is a threat, yes. They will stop at nothing to kill of any competition and Linux in particular.

But, they tried and they failed. They are used to the buy them, lock them out or underprice them strategy.
They cannot buy Linux because of the GPL (hence calling it 'viral'), they cannot lock us out because we do not need them, they cannot underprice something that is free and will remain free.

nocturn
June 3rd, 2005, 08:00 AM
What's stopping someone with a hacked XBOX from leaking a virus on to XBOX Live and demoloshing all of those clean and preened XBOXs out there on the web?
Nothing.

i was thinking about that a while back......... why has it not been done yet?

Why would you want to? Damaging something thousands of people both just to play games (not saying the Xbox is any good), but you hurt users, not the company.

I have another approach. Write the best damn software on the face of the earth and release it under the GPL. This software can go head on with the 1000 € plus stuff from MS.
How much would it hurt them if the community released a direct replacement for Small Business Server, including fully functional groupware and Directory Service.

Really, someone capabel of coding such a virus could far better use his/her talent coding for a constructive project.

nocturn
June 3rd, 2005, 08:15 AM
seriously, guys- what do you have against Microsoft? If you don't like them, just don't use their products!


I do not like the way Microsoft (and some others) do things. I do not like their FUD campaigns (which are often straight up lies), I do not like them using their monopoly to push out all competition.

If I do not use their products, I do not want to pay for them. I'm currently looking for a good portable to replace my desktop (in Belgium, azerty keyb).
Unfortunately, MS' dominance means that none of the brands is selling one without OS (or with Linux) on it, so I'm forced to pay for a product I will never use. Same goes for branded desktops.



Microsoft is a great software developer, but also, at one point, was a little nothing company that nobody knew about.


Sorry, but I have worked with many different systems and OS's and MS has the worst of them I have ever seen. Most of their sofware comes from ripping it of the competition or buying companies out.

They became this big by using very shady practices, not good engineering.
Remeber their conviction in the 80's for software piracy (they basicly ripped most stuff from Apple to build Windows 1.0).
Remeber them crippling Windows on DR-DOS, just to force it out of the market?

Remember them being convicted as a monoply?

jdodson
June 3rd, 2005, 06:08 PM
<rant><troll=off><flamesheild=on)
seriously, guys- what do you have against Microsoft?

well one time when i was a kid they beat me up and took my lunch money. i have never forgiven them for that........

one a more serious note though:) i think someone has said they were a monopoly in passing.... to some people that matters, if in just a little. :) as in, "hey lets buy a new computer that is reasonably priced, uhhhh wait you mean i can only get windows, WHOA." - WHOA as in a bill and ted WHOA.

AND, as azz seems to point out regularly(which he is totally correct on and i admire him for), microsoft produces proprietary sofware. proprietary software is good for only one party in the end, and that is the company that makes it, as in they hold all the power.


If you don't like them, just don't use their products!

done and done! :) that was an easy one.



Sure, you might think that Bi11 94735 I5 73h d3\/i1 (translation: Bill Gates is teh devil), but how has he really harmed you? Yes, many of you want 1inu>< 70 ru13 73h \/\/0r1D (translation: Linux to rule teh world), but what would you do then? Dismiss it as a monopoly and find a new os to latch on to!

the monopoly thing is a big deal. we are talking about a locked in market, free enterprise is not a monoplistic enterprise. it is better for economies to have choice, and we have choice now, however with 98% of desktops running "teh windows", i really would argue, we still might not. OR we might just not be leveraging that choice.


Microsoft is a great software developer, but also, at one point, was a little nothing company that nobody knew about. IE was also the de-facto standard at one point. Eventually, if the time ever comes that Linux is the market leader, i assume the same thing would happen to it- the developers would not keep up with the latest features, and let the OS die a slow death (while keeping most of its market share).

IE still is the de-facto standard. it is slipping a bit, but it is still the standard. microsoft is the biggest software developer, i am not sure that makes them the best.



Please stop the *&^%#@!$ trolling... it's getting really old...
</rant></troll></flamesheild><flamesheild=retain>

asking people to stop writing opinions(often negative) about microsoft is pretty strange, when you are writing from a gnu/linux forum. its like asking conservative christians to stop writing good things about jesus on a conservative christian forum, it aint gonna happen.

i view microsoft as one of the most high forms of "the man" we have today. i also believe in some forms of software freedom(most, but not all). i dislike any company that leverages itself as the de-facto standards through illegal practices. if that is "trolling" so be it, however it seems that the word "troll" is used when it is not always deserved.

vega44
June 3rd, 2005, 07:23 PM
well one time when i was a kid they beat me up and took my lunch money. i have never forgiven them for that........

one a more serious note though:) i think someone has said they were a monopoly in passing.... to some people that matters, if in just a little. :) as in, "hey lets buy a new computer that is reasonably priced, uhhhh wait you mean i can only get windows, WHOA." - WHOA as in a bill and ted WHOA.

AND, as azz seems to point out regularly(which he is totally correct on and i admire him for), microsoft produces proprietary sofware. proprietary software is good for only one party in the end, and that is the company that makes it, as in they hold all the power.



done and done! :) that was an easy one.




the monopoly thing is a big deal. we are talking about a locked in market, free enterprise is not a monoplistic enterprise. it is better for economies to have choice, and we have choice now, however with 98% of desktops running "teh windows", i really would argue, we still might not. OR we might just not be leveraging that choice.



IE still is the de-facto standard. it is slipping a bit, but it is still the standard. microsoft is the biggest software developer, i am not sure that makes them the best.




asking people to stop writing opinions(often negative) about microsoft is pretty strange, when you are writing from a gnu/linux forum. its like asking conservative christians to stop writing good things about jesus on a conservative christian forum, it aint gonna happen.

i view microsoft as one of the most high forms of "the man" we have today. i also believe in some forms of software freedom(most, but not all). i dislike any company that leverages itself as the de-facto standards through illegal practices. if that is "trolling" so be it, however it seems that the word "troll" is used when it is not always deserved.

i never hard of "trolling" must be somthing a windows user would use. what ever happen to noob.

kvidell
June 3rd, 2005, 07:26 PM
i never hard of "trolling" must be somthing a windows user would use. what ever happen to noob.
Trolling and noob are very different.
A noob is someone new to something.
A troll is someone who says something or starts a thread for the sole purpose of getting the masses riled up, torches and pitch-forks included.
- Kev

Leif
June 3rd, 2005, 07:36 PM
i never hard of "trolling" must be somthing a windows user would use. what ever happen to noob.

Well, if *this* isn't trolling, congrats on the irony.

weekend warrior
June 3rd, 2005, 10:07 PM
KiwiNZ said:
I am finding these endless debates about the evil Microsoft boring and tiresome . Isn't that the truth! *yaaaawn* Not much here that hasn't been said before. If you're looking for reasons... Why I hate Microsoft (http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html) is quite articulate and definitive.

Would somebody mind waking me up when this thread's over ;-)

KiwiNZ
June 3rd, 2005, 11:18 PM
For goodness sakes , once and for all . Microsoft is not a monopoly.

Server competition...
Sun Solaris
Novell
HP UX
Linux
etc etc etc

The Desktop...
Linux
Apple
IBM
Etc etc

Office...
Corel
Open Office
Abiword
Koffice
etc etc etc

Productivity...
A huge list

Dont confuse market leading with Monopoly .

Lets move on :roll:

weekend warrior
June 3rd, 2005, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by KiwiNZ
Dont confuse market leading with Monopoly Ah but having a market dominance and abusing it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4598473.stm) are two very different things.

But yes we really do need to move on *yaaaawn* ;-)

WildTangent
June 4th, 2005, 03:34 AM
If I do not use their products, I do not want to pay for them. I'm currently looking for a good portable to replace my desktop (in Belgium, azerty keyb).
Unfortunately, MS' dominance means that none of the brands is selling one without OS (or with Linux) on it, so I'm forced to pay for a product I will never use. Same goes for branded desktops.
HP is offering some laptops with a custom version of Ubuntu in Europe

-Wild

vega44
June 4th, 2005, 04:20 AM
HP is offering some laptops with a custom version of Ubuntu in Europe

-Wild
ahh i wish we had that
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)

kvidell
June 4th, 2005, 06:53 AM
Ah but having a market dominance and abusing it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4598473.stm) are two very different things.

But yes we really do need to move on *yaaaawn* ;-)
Agreed.
Also, squashing smaller competitors because you're afraid of them or annoyed by them (IE: Netscape) is a bad thing.

Buying your competition out is also pretty cowardice.
- Kev

bored2k
June 4th, 2005, 06:58 AM
Agreed.
Also, squashing smaller competitors because you're afraid of them or annoyed by them (IE: Netscape) is a bad thing.

Buying your competition out is also pretty cowardice.
- Kev
When it comes to making money, some people just want they're checks. "Cowards" or not, if their bank account keeps growing, it's all love ;).

Adrenal
June 4th, 2005, 01:41 PM
I know, I know. The Ubuntu community is ment to be about kindness, and compassion. But I'm not gonna pull any punches. People like you make me sick.

you people are realy going to sit back and let microsoft take over? sooner or later they are going to take over linux and im sure they will banned form the USA. you are leting them take over ........
Take over what? And how. There is no way to take over Linux, there is no company. It belongs to...everyone. Comparing Linux to Microsoft is kind of like comparing apples to oranges, they are literally totally different things. One is an open source product, the other is a software company. Really, its that simple.

look who has the money, the power and is now a bloody knight. he all ready took over the gaming maket. and has been the lead software company in the world. mirosoft is a threat never forget that. OWND

microsoft got you beat on google to.
microsoft 254,000,000
linux 177,000,000
Here we go again. You seem to be thinking that Linux, like a company, requires a large market share to succeed. No, this is not true, genious. While a big market share would be nice (more games and software being ported etc), it is not crucial to LInux's survival.
The only threat Microsoft makes to Linux is that of tying everything up with propriety software. We have proven before that we can get around that.
Gates is a knight. He donated a lot to charity. You can argue about his business practise's till the cows come home, the cold hard fact is that people benefitted from his donations. He has different views then we do, there is no reason that we have to hate him. Hate makes war, and war kills people.

IE is dead. if any one is still using IE then they most be under a rock.
Thats a lot of rocks.

mirosoft even said use firefox its safer.....
Two lessons for you this time, genious.
1. Its spelt Microsoft
2. If your gonna report news, give us a link. Whats that? No link? Could that be because it never happened?

What's stopping someone with a hacked XBOX from leaking a virus on to XBOX Live and demoloshing all of those clean and preened XBOXs out there on the web?
Nothing.

i was thinking about that a while back......... why has it not been done yet?
Because thankfully, unlike you, the majority of Linux users have ethics. Really, what would this accomplish? Hurting a lot of gamers?
We are open source. Use the software or not, we won't stop you. If you need help, ask us. But this is not a war, and, with any luck, it never will be.

Jenda
June 4th, 2005, 02:50 PM
Two lessons for you this time, genious.
1. Its spelt Microsoft
2. If your gonna report news, give us a link. Whats that? No link? Could that be because it never happened?

I have a few lessons for you, too:
1. It's spelled "genius"
2. It's spelled "It's"
3. The past tense is "spelled"
4. It's spelled "What's"
5. Don't correct other people's spelling on fora, because they are often not native english speakers - and I sometimes have the impression that it's the natives who make more misspellings here. (I'm not a native e. sp.)

poofyhairguy
June 4th, 2005, 10:05 PM
I know, I know. The Ubuntu community is ment to be about kindness, and compassion. But I'm not gonna pull any punches. People like you make me sick.

You need to be less insulting. I don't care if you are angry, we have rules around here. So one person is a little misguided. Happens a lot and is no reason to do as you please.

poofyhairguy
June 4th, 2005, 10:05 PM
5. Don't correct other people's spelling on fora, because they are often not native english speakers - and I sometimes have the impression that it's the natives who make more misspellings here. (I'm not a native e. sp.)


I'm bad about that.

Jenda
June 4th, 2005, 10:21 PM
HP is offering some laptops with a custom version of Ubuntu in Europe

-Wild
It's actually EMEA - Europe, Middle East and Africa. The reason for this is that in North america, there isn't a strong enough market for Linux - people don't care about the small difference in computer price and generally have one less reason to hate Microsoft. It seems to me that here (in N.A.), people are on average less aware of Linux existence (and OS existence, for that matter), than in Europe.

poofyhairguy
June 4th, 2005, 11:10 PM
The reason for this is that in North america, there isn't a strong enough market for Linux - people don't care about the small difference in computer price and generally have one less reason to hate Microsoft.

Actually, I personally believe its because MS has some sort of agreement like "if you ship any OS besides a Microsoft one in America you can't get OEM prices anymore."

I don't think its because Americans don't care about Linux (look at Red Hat, Novell, IBM).

bored2k
June 4th, 2005, 11:14 PM
Actually, I personally believe its because MS has some sort of agreement like "if you ship any OS besides a Microsoft one in America you can't get OEM prices anymore."

I don't think its because Americans don't care about Linux (look at Red Hat, Novell, IBM).
That is true. in my country about 5 years ago the president at that time -reelected last year- wanted to start implementing linux brazil-style. To mae the story short -broen eyboard sorry-, government computers use wndows at about 2 bucs a piece.

vega44
June 4th, 2005, 11:39 PM
That is true. in my country about 5 years ago the president at that time -reelected last year- wanted to start implementing linux brazil-style. To mae the story short -broen eyboard sorry-, government computers use wndows at about 2 bucs a piece.
whats missing??

poofyhairguy
June 5th, 2005, 12:32 AM
That is true. in my country about 5 years ago the president at that time -reelected last year- wanted to start implementing linux brazil-style. To mae the story short -broen eyboard sorry-, government computers use wndows at about 2 bucs a piece.


Hmm...

1. Plan to use Linux
2. ?
3. Profit

I think you might have figured out a key step that killed many companies in the .com boom. There are a few CEOs that would happily buy you a keyboard to get this info.

(NOTE: I get it, I was just making a joke. I'll buy you a keyboard if you need it though. Miss your explinations).

bored2k
June 5th, 2005, 12:53 AM
/me forgot.. n my unversty (omg ths sux) MS made a deal to sell MS software to students with a discount of about 80% --not lke any1 buys them anyway. The problem s not marqet - :/ - , its MS contrlling from all angles.

Adrenal
June 5th, 2005, 12:56 AM
I have a few lessons for you, too:
1. It's spelled "genius"
2. It's spelled "It's"
3. The past tense is "spelled"
4. It's spelled "What's"
5. Don't correct other people's spelling on fora, because they are often not native english speakers - and I sometimes have the impression that it's the natives who make more misspellings here. (I'm not a native e. sp.)

My apologies, I assumed he wasn't a non-native english speaker. My bad

poofyhairguy
June 5th, 2005, 01:05 AM
/me forgot.. n my unversty (omg ths sux) MS made a deal to sell MS software to students with a discount of about 80% --not lke any1 buys them anyway. The problem s not marqet - :/ - , its MS contrlling from all angles.

Mine does that too. you "rent" the software for the time you are there, you don't buy it.