Rav Tux

[Adamant1988]

I , and others in the forum community, would appreciate it greatly if something were done about RAV-TUX's behavior. Recently, RAV-TUX has posted a *series* of anti-Dell statements that border the paranoid.


Just say "NO" to Dell, buy System 76, HP, or Fujitsu.

They have just been drumming up this voting fiasco to increase their Google page hit ranking.


http://opensource.hp.com/

Again, simply put where HP innovates Dell imitates!

Dell has a long way to go to play catch up. This voting marketing scam is vulgar and un-neccessary....

I am still not impressed.

I own a Dell XPS Gen 5(or something like that)...but I learn by mistakes, while the computer is fine there are stupid mistakes Dell made.

Again just say NO to Dell!
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2313643&postcount=426
More Examples from that same thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2313552&postcount=424
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2313582&postcount=425

He (as can be seen here) is pushing people to alternatives including posting an entire thread suggesting a switch to Emperor Linux's systems (Link to thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=387252)) which are significantly over-priced compared to the dell systems on which they're based. He cites the EmperorLinux site claiming that you should "make a difference in the linux community" by ordering from them:


Make a difference in the Linux community now! Call EmperorLinux and tell them exactly what you want! They will Listen!
http://www.emperorlinux.com/order/

It is my opinion (although it seems to be shared by others in the IRC channel) that this behavior is certainly not appropriate for a member of the forum staff to be engaging in. If any member were to make comments like this they would have been "flamed" out of the forums rapidly. RAV TUX is a protected Forum Staff who should be held to higher standards than that of the normal member. As reasoning I am going to cite that our discussion of his behavior in the IRC channel was stopped because he is a, well, here's a direct quote:



<PriceChild> I am not going to have any further discussion on this topic in this channel.
<PriceChild> RAV TUX is a respected member of staff and this is not the place to discuss him
However, we've had many discussions about other forum members who behave inappropriately and were not stopped. This means that RAV TUX is subject to special protection because of his "Forum Staff" title, and should also be subject to the standards of behavior that come with that. It cannot be said that he is "just a normal member" because "normal members" aren't given this kind of protection by other staff members.

Among other complaints are that RAV TUX's signature is vastly oversized (normal users are limited to 3 or 4 are they not?) and contains graphics which is something else that normal members are not able to do. Also many of RAV TUX's threads seem to borderline spam in their nature.

I would like to request that if RAV TUX wishes to behave like a "normal member" that he should be given the appropriate title to match his behavior. The problems outlined in this post are not apparent with any other staff member. Other staff seem to behave in a dignified (semi-) professional manner at almost all times on the forums. I am certain that other members agree with me (there have been multiple discussions about this in #ubuntuforums on irc.freenode.com) and we would like to see RAV TUX behave like a dignified member of the staff, or have his title removed.

Thanks,
Adam.

[ubuntu-geek]

Adam, thanks for taking the time to post. I have notified the rest of the FC and we'll be getting back to you shortly, if you don't see a reply for a few days its not because we forgot about this.

[PriceChild]

With respect to my irc quote.

The same discussion was ended by another opper a matter of days ago, including almost the same characters. The fact that I did not personally end public flames/attacks on other forum members would be most likely be because I was not around for them, or did not feel comfortable entering the discussion. Instead, if I see such activities I would inform other operators. The fact that RAV TUX is a member of staff on these boards should not alter the fact that the discussion on irc was wrong.

The discussion on whether RAV TUX is still suited for the role as a staff member is not suitable for a irc channel due to the presence of countless uninformed, unrelated persons who will voice their worthless, and usually attacking opinions. You were informed at the end of the last discussion that the Resolution Center was the correct place to follow this up. Thankyou for following the advice.

[Adamant1988]

With respect to my irc quote.

The same discussion was ended by another opper a matter of days ago, including almost the same characters. The fact that I did not personally end public flames/attacks on other forum members would be most likely be because I was not around for them, or did not feel comfortable entering the discussion. Instead, if I see such activities I would inform other operators. The fact that RAV TUX is a member of staff on these boards should not alter the fact that the discussion on irc was wrong.

The discussion on whether RAV TUX is still suited for the role as a staff member is not suitable for a irc channel due to the presence of countless uninformed, unrelated persons who will voice their worthless, and usually attacking opinions. You were informed at the end of the last discussion that the Resolution Center was the correct place to follow this up. Thankyou for following the advice.

You are right, that same discussion was curbed by another OP ( an administrator on this forum), and I did not intend to flare the discussion up again (Hence the way I asked you where to file my complaint) it just kind of happened. However, obviously my opinions are not unfounded if this discussion has had to be stopped multiple times.

[jdong]

You are right, that same discussion was curbed by another OP ( an administrator on this forum), and I did not intend to flare the discussion up again (Hence the way I asked you where to file my complaint) it just kind of happened. However, obviously my opinions are not unfounded if this discussion has had to be stopped multiple times.

Adam, the discussion was stopped because #ubuntuforums is not an acceptable mechanism for discussing any conflicts with staff OR other forum members. Had the discussion been about anyone else, the same actions would've been taken.



As stated, this complaint has been raised to the forum council and is being discussed.

[KiwiNZ]

adamant1988 can you please state what Forum rules you believe ravtux has breached with his posts.

[Adamant1988]

Has RAV TUX broken any rules for members? Not that I can see. However, it is my belief (read: opinion) and that of many of the people who have PMed me both on the forums and on IRC about my complaint, that he is most certainly out of line with how forum staff should be behaving. Other forum staff have never once refrained from giving their opinion (I would like to point you to Brunellus' comment which is actually similar in nature to RAV TUX's Here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2303241&postcount=403).).

Brunellus delivered his opinion in a dignified and well thought out manner, whereas RAV TUX immediately started spamming the thread with HP info proclaiming that DELL was using underhanded and dishonorable marketing tactics to "increase their google page hit ranking". He then followed this up with a thread that not only suggested Emperor Linux systems (Ubuntu forums staff picking favorites and then practically advertising for them) but he went so far as to make it sound that if you didn't buy from them you weren't "doing your part".

Now, I don't care what RAV TUX's opinions are myself, and I don't care if he says them. I *do* care if he fails to do that in the manner he did. If he wants to set up an alternative account and vent his opinions through that, more power to him, but when he's got that"form staff" title, he is *not* a regular member.

I honestly do not care what stance you guys want to take, but you are "Forum staff", in the eyes of the public you are representatives of the forum. Again, I'm not the only one who feels this way, I've had multiple PMs on IRC/Forums telling me things that I forgot to include in the post, for example:



You forgot to mention he continuously sneaks in links to his own forum of which he seems to be the only member, talking to himself. Good luck with this, while I agree with you, I'd say your chances of success are slim. The thread in the Resolution Center by 23meg about the legitimacy of Israel topic already clearly illustrated that the staff will stand behind him no matter what. At least you are going about it the right way. I once called his posts "borderline spam" in an Other OS thread and the post was promptly jailed by none other than RAV himself...

...So again, good luck with this, if it weren't for the rules of the Resolution Center I would certainly join the discussion.

Also, again, his signature is much longer than that of other members and staff.

[KiwiNZ]

Has RAV TUX broken any rules for members? Not that I can see. However, it is my belief (read: opinion) and that of many of the people who have PMed me both on the forums and on IRC about my complaint, that he is most certainly out of line with how forum staff should be behaving. Other forum staff have never once refrained from giving their opinion (I would like to point you to Brunellus' comment which is actually similar in nature to RAV TUX's Here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2303241&postcount=403).).

Brunellus delivered his opinion in a dignified and well thought out manner, whereas RAV TUX immediately started spamming the thread with HP info proclaiming that DELL was using underhanded and dishonorable marketing tactics to "increase their google page hit ranking". He then followed this up with a thread that not only suggested Emperor Linux systems (Ubuntu forums staff picking favorites and then practically advertising for them) but he went so far as to make it sound that if you didn't buy from them you weren't "doing your part".

Now, I don't care what RAV TUX's opinions are myself, and I don't care if he says them. I *do* care if he fails to do that in the manner he did. If he wants to set up an alternative account and vent his opinions through that, more power to him, but when he's got that"form staff" title, he is *not* a regular member.

I honestly do not care what stance you guys want to take, but you are "Forum staff", in the eyes of the public you are representatives of the forum. Again, I'm not the only one who feels this way, I've had multiple PMs on IRC/Forums telling me things that I forgot to include in the post, for example: Also, again, his signature is much longer than that of other members and staff.

Thankyou for your response to my question.

You may not hear anything more for a while as a sensitive issue such as this needs carefull consideration by the Forum Council Members.

[maxamillion]

First: I have been granted permission to post here from ubuntu-geek.

With that being said lets continue:

My name is Adam Miller, some of you may know me but others don't. I am a member and contributor to the Xubuntu community/project (my further credentials pertaining to this are on my wiki page which is my signature link).

I come here to voice my opinion about RAV-TUX and his behavior. Now, I would like to clarify that I don't mind if he dislikes Dell or not because in my world he, as well as everyone else, is entitled to his opinion. In my experiences with my time on the forums I have held the entire admin/mod/staff team in high regard and give them my utmost respects due to their level of professionalism, fair judgment, common courtesy, and other Ubuntero ideals. RAV-TUX has not violated any rules of a forum member to my knowledge nor any that of a moderator (again, only to my knowledge) but I feel he does not compose himself in a professional enough manner to moderate a forum such as ubuntuforums. My reasoning is this: users come here seeking help and/or looking to converse with other community members about a wide array of topics and do so in a non-flame ridden environment which is a wonderful thing, but when I log in daily and always see a new thread posted by RAX-TUX that lacks any relevance to Ubuntu I feel it broadcasts the wrong message about the moderation team. I think the biggest complaint I hear in irc is that he tends to promote Sabayon (spelling?) Linux more than anything else, while I have observed a large number of posts from RAX-TUX I don't think I have ever seen him moderate a thread and I would be willing to say he is one of the users that I feel is constantly provoking flame wars by opening up threads to open source holy wars, such as "vim vs. emacs" (I don't know if RAV-TUX ever made a post of that exact topic, but it is just an example) and as I reiterate: I don't feel that is the behavior of a staff member (where as staff is anyone affiliated with ubuntuforums and has administrative duties no matter how small or large).

I don't think he should necessarily be removed from the moderation team, but possibly an adjustment of behavior or maybe a user mode account for him to continue to make frivolous posts about whatever whim floats his way because that in my opinion is a characteristic of a user, not a moderator.

I hope I have voiced my opinion clearly and correctly and done so in a proper manner, my intent is not to anger or annoy but simply put forth my view of the situation which is why I contacted ubuntu-geek in the first place.

Thank you for your time,
-Adam Miller

[matthew]

Since RAV TUX has chosen to step down from his staff position in these forums this issue is now resolved.

As an official statement from the Forums Council we would simply like to say publicly that we have considered RAV TUX a valued member of our staff, and of these forums. We greatly appreciate his service to this community and we look forward to his continued contribution to these forums as a valued member of the community.

The events that have transpired are not related to this thread nor RAV TUX's opinions of Dell, HP, or any other specific matter. The Forum Council would like to affirm that the staff are free to express their personal opinions and beliefs.