pros/cons about gnome control center

[karellen]

what are your feelings/opinions about the inclusion of a control center in feisty fawn. do you like it? or it would be better to stick to the old administration/preferences sub-menus with the scrolli list? which one do you think it's faster, user-friendlier?
I personally like the control center idea, with all the settings in one place, I've tryed linux mint and I love what they've done with the standard gnome interface (new start menu, control center)
A discussion about this matter can also be found here: http://www.masuran.org/2007/03/05/ubuntu-704-preview

[Quillz]

I prefer the Control Center, and wish they had left it as the default option. Oh well... it's easy enough to enable.

[karellen]

yes, I prefer it too, it's one of the few things I actually liked about sled 10 :D

[Crooksey]

I personally don't like it, Ubuntu should come with pure gnome, imo, then have it easily enabled.

I dont like it when developers keep changing DE's for their Distro, this dosent help new users who are using a few distro's as Gnome on one install is different to Gnome on another.

A while back I was reading a Gnome over KDE discussion in the Linux magazine I read, both parties came to a conclusion that if they could make the steps todo certain tasks simillar between DE's new users would be miles better off.

Like say opening amarok, in KDE click the menu, multimedia, then amarok.

In gnome click applications, multimedia and sound, amarok.

Nice and simple, eh? And the same goes for sysadmin e.g. control center.

Now, you see when everything gets changed it gets more complicated for new users.

Just my $0.02

[karellen]

maybe a central settings place will attract new user being more intuitive :D

[beniwtv]

I think it should have been enabled by default. It's far more easier IMHO for new users.

Also, a scrolling list of options (the Administration/Preferences menus) is not the best approach, as it makes it more difficult to find things, specially for new users that aren't aware of the option names yet.

And the Control Center has a find feature, so you can easily access everything.

Now the only thing is to integrate it with Deskbar, to open a configuration window by typing in the name as it is in the Control Center.

BUT, there should be an option (not only in Gconf) to enable/disable it, if a user wants the traditional thing.

IHMO, the Control Center is my new killer app. :popcorn:

[DC@DR]

For me, I don't care, with or without it, it's still fine :)

[cowlip]

I think it's a good thing. Until we get to search through GTK menus (think Firefox's find as you type) it's a lot better than sorting through 50 different icons..

[23meg]

I think it should have been enabled by default. It's far more easier IMHO for new users.

I sincerely don't understand this: how, in what way is the control center easier to use for new users than the menu bar? Can anyone list some reasons why it's easier to use, and why for new users in special?

[argie]

I sincerely don't understand this: how, in what way is the control center easier to use for new users than the menu bar? Can anyone list some reasons why it's easier to use, and why for new users in special?

I personally prefer it the way KDE has it, you can choose to use the Control Center or just open one thing from a menu.

I think it's a whole "they're used to windows" thing.

[23meg]

I think it's a whole "they're used to windows" thing.

I see; if so, it's pretty short sighted and a weak argument.

[Bloodfen Razormaw]

I sincerely don't understand this: how, in what way is the control center easier to use for new users than the menu bar? Can anyone list some reasons why it's easier to use, and why for new users in special?
Because changing multiple options should not require you to repeatedly drill down through the same menu twenty times. The rule to user interfaces is that you lose half your users for every extra click they have to make. If we take that rule literally, GNOME would have about 200 billion users if not for the menu-based options navigation. The menu is not the correct metaphor for items you work with for extended periods of time.

[Tomosaur]

I like the control center, and also wish it was on by default. I dont like long menus, which is what my current Edgy Admin/Preferences menus are like.

[23meg]

Because changing multiple options should not require you to repeatedly drill down through the same menu twenty times.

Drilling down the same window twenty times isn't any better.


The rule to user interfaces is that you lose half your users for every extra click they have to make. If we take that rule literally, GNOME would have about 200 billion users if not for the menu-based options navigation.

I'm not a fan of such over-generalizing "laws", but in any case, with the control center, reaching an administrative app takes three clicks, whereas with the menu bar it takes two clicks. Another problem is that you wait for the control center to open, no matter how short it takes; it adds an extra step of waiting for an interface that doesn't have any actual role in the task you want to perform, but just takes you to it. With the menu bar, the interface pops up instantly.


The menu is not the correct metaphor for items you work with for extended periods of time.

Again, I won't take that as a universal law; it's very much up for debate, but are you supposed to work with the administrative and preference apps for extended periods of time? No, you launch them, set things up, tweak settings and get back to work.

[karellen]

it's simple: new users don't fall from the sky, they came from microsoft. and there they had control panel. so it will be more easier and intuitive for them. this in case as we want to attract new average users, not only people who know what they're doing and can do well with or without gui or control center. and don't tell me that linux it's not windows, if linux wants to extend it's user base it must offer as many user-friendly tools as can be, because larger user base means a lot of good things for linux: open source drivers, linux preinstalled on new pc-s by oem, linux version of application like photoshop, dreamweaver and so on...

[DoctorMO]

The more gui 'sets' the better, as long as I'm not forced to use this control pannel and can still enjoy executing the gui controls from the command line I don't really care. it's all about options.

We should be looking at creating many more administration tools in general to be honest some things are just not good enough in Edgy; I do hope attention has been paid to the actual tools.

[karellen]

for example a better gui for networking ;)

[23meg]

it's simple: new users don't fall from the sky, they came for microsoft.

I think you mean from Microsoft; today they do, mostly. But it's kind of short sighted to assume that this will always be the case. Trying to cater for the habits of ex-Windows users will lead to an unoriginal mediocrity that will do more harm than good.


this in case as we want to attract new average users, not only people who know what they're doing and can do well with or without gui or control center.

We've attracted millions without a control center, and as far as I can see, they were doing fine without one, until the GNOME control center arrived. Please, let's steer the discussion away from who is accustomed to what, back to the inherent merits and shortcomings of each method; there's no end to copying things just because people are accustomed to them.


if linux wants to extend it's user base it must offer as many user-friendly tools as can be

Confusing familiarity with ease of use and user friendliness is a common pitfall that we should avoid.

[karellen]

I think you mean from Microsoft; today they do, mostly. But it's kind of short sighted to assume that this will always be the case. Trying to cater for the habits of ex-Windows users will lead to an unoriginal mediocrity that will do more harm than good.



We've attracted millions without a control center, and as far as I can see, they were doing fine without one, until the GNOME control center arrived. Please, let's steer the discussion away from who is accustomed to what, back to the inherent merits and shortcomings of each method; there's no end to copying things just because people are accustomed to them.



Confusing familiarity with ease of use and user friendliness is a common pitfall that we should avoid.

yes, mea culpa. I've made the correction :). Honestily speaking I like it but I've lived without it so it's not a crucial deal....Maybe a newcomer will find it more appealing, don't know. I actually like change and learning new things, but I don't think this is the case for everybody...Anyway, I really want a bigger market share for linux :D

[maxamillion]

I think its a good idea, I actually use Xfce but I think the general public of linux users who would over all benefit from something of the sort. To me its just a logical grouping of applications that I believe majority of users would prefer it to be grouped together in order to be more easily/readily available to them.

[Kalibur]

Here is my two pence..
Control center is good because some Ms Windows former/current users will integrate more smoothing to ubuntu because it resembles control panel - And I think that is a good thing. Am using kubuntu and ubuntu and I have to admit that having things organised in large icons in a window is easy and more meaningfull
But as a dude who is constantly swopping thru menus and settings the current setup suits me better, but am not a selfish person so I vote in favor of control center as the default - its better option for the long term.

[karellen]

totally agree with you Kalibur :)

[Bloodfen Razormaw]

Drilling down the same window twenty times isn't any better.
Probably why you don't have to. You just click the options you want and get them. Mathematicians now believe one click is less than three or four.


reaching an administrative app takes three clicks, whereas with the menu bar it takes two clicks.
Now access another administrative app. Another two clicks for the menu, one for the control center. Keep going, and the difference grows. People usually configure multiple options at once. Choosing the interface that in a very rare case might be better and is worse in all others is not a good decision. And note that this is an intricacy of this control center, not any argument against them in general.


Again, I won't take that as a universal law; it's very much up for debate, but are you supposed to work with the administrative and preference apps for extended periods of time? No, you launch them, set things up
You proved my point. Launch them. You launch more than one at a time in most cases. That means working with them over an extended period. With the menu you have to browse back to where you were AGAIN to continue. Tell me, when you browse the Ubuntu forums, do you go back to the main page, and come back into Ubuntu Cafe, to go to the next thread?

[23meg]

Probably why you don't have to. You just click the options you want and get them. Mathematicians now believe one click is less than three or four.

I'm glad not many mathematicians work on usability.


Now access another administrative app. Another two clicks for the menu, one for the control center. Keep going, and the difference grows. People usually configure multiple options at once. Choosing the interface that in a very rare case might be better and is worse in all others is not a good decision. And note that this is an intricacy of this control center, not any argument against them in general.

I'm not talking about control centers in general, but this control center. I compared the number of clicks only because you mentioned it; I'm not of the belief that less clicks means universally better interaction.

And I'm not sure that people usually configure multiple options at once. I for one don't.


You proved my point. Launch them. You launch more than one at a time in most cases.That means working with them over an extended period.

I rarely launch more than one at once, I don't work with them over an extended period, and I don't see how launching multiple ones means working with them over an extended period. Your point was that the menu isn't a good metaphor for things one works at over long periods; I said that I didn't work on graphical configuration apps for long periods, and that I thought people didn't in general. That can only prove your point if you pick one word of what I said.

We can have a healthier discussion if you elaborate why you think the menu isn't a good metaphor for its current function in GNOME, that is, if you think so.

[Sunflower1970]

I'm not a fan of the control center, but I'm willing to give it a shot...I might even enable it to play around with it in Feisty when I upgrade at some point.

The menu just seems easier to me, more intuitive. I know exactly where everything is on both the Admin & Preferences.

Who knows? I might end up loving it, or loathing it even more.

[graabein]

I think I like it and am willing to give it a try. How will this be included? As an Add to Panel... option, default instead of the usual Menu Bar? Then it would be easy to switch back to the normal GNOME setup if one does not like it.