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View Full Version : A True Frontpage Competitor?



BarfBag
March 7th, 2007, 11:20 PM
There are some great open source web designer projects, but from my experience - none of them are true Frontpage competitors. With Frontpage, anybody could make a website. No knowledge of HTML is required. It starts you out with a blank page and allows you to build it word processor style. The HTML itself isn't very clean, but it's good enough. I'm looking for an app that will do this. I don't have the time to write HTML anymore.

Bloodfen Razormaw
March 7th, 2007, 11:40 PM
Frontpage was a joke, and Microsoft correspondingly killed it off.

However, by a huge margin the best free web development application is Quanta Plus. And it makes Frontpage look like a toy.

Brunellus
March 8th, 2007, 12:09 AM
There are some great open source web designer projects, but from my experience - none of them are true Frontpage competitors. With Frontpage, anybody could make a website. No knowledge of HTML is required. It starts you out with a blank page and allows you to build it word processor style. The HTML itself isn't very clean, but it's good enough. I'm looking for an app that will do this. I don't have the time to write HTML anymore.
Nvu.

SishGupta
March 8th, 2007, 03:24 AM
Nvu for sure if you want a wysiwyg editor.

It is especially nice due to the fact that it adheres to the w3c spec, which I found that FP/DW/GoLive never did.

I personally use a text editor though. Too many times a visual editor has ruined my code.

SunnyRabbiera
March 8th, 2007, 04:14 AM
I dunno, I think frontpage was fair for what it did... I certainly think its more stable then NVU that cant go five seconds without crashing on me.
I only use wysiwyg editors as i dont have the first clue on how to edit code, and I really dont feel like taking HTML courses to create a simplistic webpage.
I am still on the search of a decent HTML editor that is both easy and stable

seijuro
March 8th, 2007, 04:56 AM
I HATED Frontpage the code it spat out was pure garbage and my wife drove me nuts every time she asked me to fix stuff it wasn't doing right. I highly recommend learning to write HTML or better yet XHTML and using something like Bluefish, Screem, or Quanta+. There is so much more flexibility working directly with the code and you can make sure that it is clear and clean. Although it is not the easiest site to navigate W3C.org (http://www.w3c.org) has all the information you need to teach yourself how to code and in standardized format.

EDIT: A big reason I am pro Bluefish is the ability to pipe html/xml lint through the output box so you can verify your code is standard compliant.

TheRingmaster
March 8th, 2007, 05:01 AM
I HATED Frontpage the code it spat out was pure garbage and my wife drove me nuts every time she asked me to fix stuff it wasn't doing right. I highly recommend learning to write HTML or better yet XHTML and using something like Bluefish, Screem, or Quanta+. There is so much more flexibility working directly with the code and you can make sure that it is clear and clean. Although it is not the easiest site to navigate W3C.org (http://www.w3c.org) has all the information you need to teach yourself how to code and in standardized format.

EDIT: A big reason I am pro Bluefish is the ability to pipe html/xml lint through the output box so you can verify your code is standard compliant.
w3schools.com is where I learned basic x/html and some css

SunnyRabbiera
March 8th, 2007, 05:29 AM
I might be one of the few people who has had a fair experience with frontpage, then again I used it in interchange with NVU as when something caused NVU to crash frontpage would take over nicely.
I really wish development for NVU didnt die, sure there is kompozer but its really no better.

seijuro
March 8th, 2007, 05:40 AM
Anyone given Amaya a try? The description in the repo says its a WYSIWYG Editor/Browser made by the W3C. I haven't looked at it yet, don't feel like downloading something that big on dialup.

aysiu
March 8th, 2007, 05:41 AM
If people can't be bothered to learn how to code HTML and CSS, I don't think they should be designing websites, especially in this day and age when you can easily set up a blog (http://www.blogger.com/start)--leave the designing to template-designers at least--and just worry about the content and not the setup. C++ and Java and all those actual programming languages look like gobbledygook to me, but even I was able to pick up on HTML. It's fairly intuitive.

I'm not trying to be snobby here (Oh, look at me. I can do something difficult, and you can't). Quite the opposite, actually. I'm proposing that learning HTML is easy enough that anyone who is willing to put a tiny bit of effort into it can do it. It is not that complicated.

~LoKe
March 8th, 2007, 05:53 AM
An application would have to such enormous balls to be a competitor for FrontPage.

Worst webdesign application ever made, and somehow it became big.

seijuro
March 8th, 2007, 05:53 AM
If people can't be bothered to learn how to code HTML and CSS, I don't think they should be designing websites, especially in this day and age when you can easily set up a blog (http://www.blogger.com/start)--leave the designing to template-designers at least--and just worry about the content and not the setup. C++ and Java and all those actual programming languages look like gobbledygook to me, but even I was able to pick up on HTML. It's fairly intuitive.

I'm not trying to be snobby here (Oh, look at me. I can do something difficult, and you can't). Quite the opposite, actually. I'm proposing that learning HTML is easy enough that anyone who is willing to put a tiny bit of effort into it can do it. It is not that complicated.

Yes I agree my wife picked up XHTML just by using my codes as examples then writing her own and asking me questions whenever she ran into a problem. It took a lot of encouragement to get her to try it after her being used to Frontpage on windows for so long and then when I got her to convert to Linux I set her up with Bluefish and tried to convince her it was the next logical step in her conversion process. Once she got past the fear she took right off with it.

DoctorMO
March 8th, 2007, 05:53 AM
If you want horrible html output with a word processor gui why don't you use a wrod processor? they all output to html: openoffice, koffice, gnome-office etc etc

aysiu
March 8th, 2007, 05:59 AM
Yes I agree my wife picked up XHTML just by using my codes as examples then writing her own and asking me questions whenever she ran into a problem. It took a lot of encouragement to get her to try it after her being used to Frontpage on windows for so long and then when I got her to convert to Linux I set her up with Bluefish and tried to convince her it was the next logical step in her conversion process. Once she got past the fear she took right off with it.
It was the opposite for me. My wife bought a book about HTML and taught herself. Once I realized (by watching her code) that it was basically just a text document you upload somewhere, then I wasn't as intimidated, and the book was very step-by-step for beginners like me. It was Liz Castro's QuickStart Guide to HTML.

user1397
March 8th, 2007, 06:04 AM
There are some great open source web designer projects, but from my experience - none of them are true Frontpage competitors. With Frontpage, anybody could make a website. No knowledge of HTML is required. It starts you out with a blank page and allows you to build it word processor style. The HTML itself isn't very clean, but it's good enough. I'm looking for an app that will do this. I don't have the time to write HTML anymore.You're looking for something like kompozer (http://kompozer.net), which is in fact a fork of nvu, and should be a little less buggy. In time it will evolve into Composer 2.0, part of the new mozilla suite.

I don't understand why everyone is suggesting things like quanta plus and bluefish, those require at least basic html skills...the OP explicitly says he doesn't have time to write HTML, hence a program like kompozer or nvu (even though the html code it produces is kinda bad, o well...)

OrangeCrate
March 8th, 2007, 12:51 PM
I'm not trying to be snobby here (Oh, look at me. I can do something difficult, and you can't). Quite the opposite, actually. I'm proposing that learning HTML is easy enough that anyone who is willing to put a tiny bit of effort into it can do it. It is not that complicated.

Though I tend to agree with you, actually, I think you are being a bit snobbish in this case. I, like many, have no intention of learning HTML. I have a simple informational website on my consulting practice. It's nothing fancy, and is primarily accessed by clients for information.

I've used FrontPage for years, and it has done what I expected it to do. I just duplicated the site with Nvu, though I haven't published it yet. I also decided long ago, that with my limited needs, I don't need to pay someone to design and/or maintain a website.

Learning HTML is probably a good thing if you have the time, but I don't, so products like FrontPage and Nvu have been very helpful.

karellen
March 8th, 2007, 02:36 PM
why not use macromedia if you have windows installed? it's very intuitive and in the same time it offers advanced features if you need them. I keep windows on my dual-boot machine for applications like that....I've used nvu and it's buggy and it crashes. No I write my php coding in quanta+ and works well so far

tigerpants
March 8th, 2007, 05:01 PM
I dunno, I think frontpage was fair for what it did... I certainly think its more stable then NVU that cant go five seconds without crashing on me.
I only use wysiwyg editors as i dont have the first clue on how to edit code, and I really dont feel like taking HTML courses to create a simplistic webpage.
I am still on the search of a decent HTML editor that is both easy and stable

In your experience. In my experience, NVU has never crashed and I use it alot. Helluva lot. Frontpage is a joke, but then so is Access and Publisher. Mere toys, all of which used to crash on me on a regular basis.

You pays yer money, yer takes yer choice.

TheRingmaster
March 8th, 2007, 05:02 PM
why not use macromedia if you have windows installed? it's very intuitive and in the same time it offers advanced features if you need them. I keep windows on my dual-boot machine for applications like that....I've used nvu and it's buggy and it crashes. No I write my php coding in quanta+ and works well so far
didn't macromedia get bought out by adobe?

SeanTater
March 8th, 2007, 05:07 PM
I must agree with many other posts in the fact that HTML is simple to learn, however, to answer the original question, I do not believe there is any application running Linux which can easily replace Frontpage. The problem is that anyone who uses Linux probably has the learning curve to pick up HTML faster than they would the features hidden in the GUI.

Again, returning to the topic, try Openoffice. It can export to Doc, ODT, SXW, PDF, and yes, HTML. In my experience you'll have to hunt a bit for the styling features, but if you don't know HTML, it's the next best thing.

Note: Save your documents. OO can crash occasionally. But much less often than either Frontpage or NVU.

adam.tropics
March 8th, 2007, 06:37 PM
I always felt the idea of frontpage was ok, but the execution was just a mess (truly daft extensions etc), and Aysiu is right, it's not so hard to pick up by hand anyway. Either way, just be patient, once google have finished putting office applications online, they're almost bound to tackle Adobe/Macromedia! That said, aren't Adobe about to release a basic version of photoshop onlin? Sure I read that, so who knows, one day...

DarkN00b
March 8th, 2007, 07:01 PM
Has anyone here ever taken a look at the code produced by Frontpage? Its a hopeless mess that somehow gets correctly displayed in your browser (mostly). If you've used it, you have done your site visitors a disservice. The horribly bloated code has slowed down page loads and confused non-Microsoft browsers for years.

Use NVU or Komposer if you need a WYSIWYG editor, they work well. When you have a little free time take a look at learning HTML and CSS. It really isn't as hard as you'd think and the hand-coding goes quicker than WYSIWYG once you get the hang of it.

dyous87
March 8th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Frontpage was always a terrible program IMHO. Dreamweaver is much better but in Linux I've been using NVU and it seems to get the job done quite nicely. Even better the Dreamweaver in many cases.

karellen
March 8th, 2007, 07:17 PM
didn't macromedia get bought out by adobe?

yes, now it's adobe dreamweaver. the last version it's 8 I think (yes, I love this piece of software :D)

SunnyRabbiera
March 8th, 2007, 08:04 PM
Anyone given Amaya a try? The description in the repo says its a WYSIWYG Editor/Browser made by the W3C. I haven't looked at it yet, don't feel like downloading something that big on dialup.

I have, its alright but I have been off and on with it.

OrangeCrate
March 10th, 2007, 01:28 PM
why not use macromedia if you have windows installed? it's very intuitive and in the same time it offers advanced features if you need them. I keep windows on my dual-boot machine for applications like that....I've used nvu and it's buggy and it crashes. No I write my php coding in quanta+ and works well so far

Turbo Tax (though available online), and FrontPage to manage my website are the two primary reasons I still keep Windows. I converted to Firefox, Thunderbird, and OOo long ago.

Once this old box goes, I'll probably go to Linux only. Though Dreamweaver is an excellent program, frankly, I just don't want to spend the dollars to install it.

In reserve, I have a duplicate of my site on Nvu ready to publish, but I'll continue to update it with FrontPage until I replace this machine.

Great suggestion though, and one I've thought about. Thanks.