alt.os.linux

[jamyskis]

Has anyone had any experiences with the newsgroup alt.os.linux? I've been posting to it for a couple of weeks now and it's struck me that although some of the most knowledgeable people post there, it suffers from so much arrogance and elitism there that I don't think I'm going to bother with it any more.

I'll take an example to show my point:

I was, until recently, relatively unfamiliar with Usenet etiquette, particularly with regards to top-posting. An easy mistake to make, I have to say. Somebody replies when I offered some advice on printers that nobody should take any stock in advice from a top-poster. I offered my apologies and got trolled yet again by the same moron.

It gets worse. He ended his tirade with the phrase "Thank you for not top-posting" (sarcastically, I assume), when someone else chipped in to my defense, saying that "netsheriffs are worse than top-posters". Cue the troll wars. Everybody came down on the guy like a ton of bricks for criticising based on one single header in his post: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 - yes, he is a Windows user. It pretty soon degenerated into a flurry of name-calling (Windroids anyone?) upon which point I decided to duck out and stay out.

What does everyone think of this behaviour?

[Brunellus]

usenet is not for the faint of heart. It's not moderated and not filtered--so you take the good as well as the bad (until you have a proper killfile and filter the bad).

Usenet users, on the whole, tend to have spent more of their lives on the internet (and on usenet); they don't suffer fools gladly--especially those whom they see as insensitive to usenet's culture--that includes top-posting.

[DrainBead]

usenet is not for the faint of heart. It's not moderated and not filtered--so you take the good as well as the bad (until you have a proper killfile and filter the bad).

Usenet users, on the whole, tend to have spent more of their lives on the internet (and on usenet); they don't suffer fools gladly--especially those whom they see as insensitive to usenet's culture--that includes top-posting.

I completely agree with that.

Top posting is unwanted for a very good reason, it makes the thread a lot harder to read.

A new user is usually told this in a not-so-harsh manner the first time, if he doesn't change his ways he is reminded, if he persists he'll get his **** flamed off eventually and rightly so.

[DrainBead]

Has anyone had any experiences with the newsgroup alt.os.linux? I've been posting to it for a couple of weeks now and it's struck me that although some of the most knowledgeable people post there, it suffers from so much arrogance and elitism there that I don't think I'm going to bother with it any more.

I'll take an example to show my point:

I was, until recently, relatively unfamiliar with Usenet etiquette, particularly with regards to top-posting. An easy mistake to make, I have to say. Somebody replies when I offered some advice on printers that nobody should take any stock in advice from a top-poster. I offered my apologies and got trolled yet again by the same moron.

It gets worse. He ended his tirade with the phrase "Thank you for not top-posting" (sarcastically, I assume), when someone else chipped in to my defense, saying that "netsheriffs are worse than top-posters". Cue the troll wars. Everybody came down on the guy like a ton of bricks for criticising based on one single header in his post: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 - yes, he is a Windows user. It pretty soon degenerated into a flurry of name-calling (Windroids anyone?) upon which point I decided to duck out and stay out.

What does everyone think of this behaviour?

What thread was it?

I ask because now we know your side of the story but it would be nice to read the thread for myself.

If you care about being insulted over the internet then usenet is not for you.

[Brunellus]

I completely agree with that.

Top posting is unwanted for a very good reason, it makes the thread a lot harder to read.

A new user is usually told this in a not-so-harsh manner the first time, if he doesn't change his ways he is reminded, if he persists he'll get his **** flamed off eventually and rightly so.
A: Because it makes it difficult to read the thread and follow the responses.
Q: Why is top-posting a bad idea?

[DrainBead]

A: Because it makes it difficult to read the thread and follow the responses.
Q: Why is top-posting a bad idea?

That a perfect illustration of why top posting is bad, i'm going to use that next time i come across someone who asks me why it's bad. :)

[jamyskis]

The title of the thread was "Linspire?" although it became off-topic very quickly. As I see it looking back over the thread most of the problems were down to this troll who identified himself as "Dan C." - most others, although they may have disagreed on certain points, were quite respectful and courteous.

http://groups.google.de/group/alt.os.linux/browse_thread/thread/649d6f38fde3fc12/1cd38998fa0b4db4?hl=de#1cd38998fa0b4db4

I know now about top-posting, and although I top-posted once after being politely warned (I missed the warning by accident) I didn't do it again. I think my posting habits were less the problem however - the larger problem was the behaviour of certain individuals not only towards me, but to others.



usenet is not for the faint of heart. It's not moderated and not filtered--so you take the good as well as the bad (until you have a proper killfile and filter the bad).


This is all well and good, but doesn't bode well for Linux when you consider that Usenet will be the first port of call for help for many newbies to Linux, and that alt.os.linux is an extremely common group to visit. The number of newbies I've seen posting there asking for help on choosing a distro and being flamed for it is, quite frankly, inexcusable. It's no wonder people turn away from Linux so quickly. There's absolutely no excuse for this kind of behaviour and only serves to make the complaints made against FLOSS by companies like Microsoft appear justified.

Thankfully we have Ubuntu, which encourages newbies to visit the Ubuntu forums instead of Usenet. I use Linux principally for philosophical reasons, and have unsubscribed myself from that newsgroup before I turn around and decide that Windows doesn't seem such a bad idea after all.

[andrew.46]

Hi,

You _really_ need a thick skin on Usenet. I try to remember that there are some very intelligent and experienced people out there, even if the trolls drown them out at times. I take some small comfort when confronted by some of the more juvenile trolls in imagining that are either very young and immature or perhaps very limited adults.

Andrew

[andrew.46]

Hi,

Sorry to 2ble answer your post:


Thankfully we have Ubuntu, which encourages newbies to visit the Ubuntu forums instead of Usenet. I use Linux principally for philosophical reasons, and have unsubscribed myself from that newsgroup before I turn around and decide that Windows doesn't seem such a bad idea after all.

There is always alt.os.linux.ubuntu which is a friendly place. And yes I agree that Ubuntu linux is a lot more friendly than some of the other distros :-)

Andrew

[eightieth_dimension]

IMO if a polar opposite to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct or the rules of this forum are possible then the behaviors I have seen in alt.os.linux.ubuntu is it. Having said that I add that there are a few intelligent and helpful people there, but only a few.

If you mention the word Windows or express any opinion that is not clearly derogatory of that OS or software compatible with it you will be subjected to irrational attacks. And I stress the word irrational. If you doubt this then visit alt.os.linux.ubuntu and test my assertion yourself.

Some posters in alt.os.linux.ubuntu adhere to a code espoused in a document found at the following link:

http://www.Xcatb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Above link is munged, remove X. I have contacted the authors to recommend that they delete it as it does them and the world no good service.

I am familiar with the antics of Dan C and am currently engaged in mitigation / re-education actions. Don’t expect any miracles though.

[steviesteveo]

Hi,

Sorry to 2ble answer your post:



There is always alt.os.linux.ubuntu which is a friendly place. And yes I agree that Ubuntu linux is a lot more friendly than some of the other distros :-)

Andrew

Just to update this for 2009. In my experience this is sadly no longer the case. A very judicious act of blocking a few members is required before the group turns friendly again. The user mentioned in this thread, for example, does not like new users and will tell you that in the strongest possible terms. It's a great resource but in its default form needing a thick skin puts it mildly.

[overdrank]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5451/necromancing.jpg