Free advertising for ubuntu

[Devilin]

I run some small sites and I'd like to recommend ubuntu
There's just one tiny thing stopping me from doing so

Although ubuntu is easy to install & set up :) wonderful marvellous superb :)

If you decide you don't like it then it can become a nightmare to remove :(

I believe and uninstall facility as part of the main install menu is required

The grub partition can be removed easily if you know what you're doing, but if you don't and I've tested various methods of removal I'm sure you realise the scenario especially if you're not familiar with BIOS settings and your computer doesn't have a floppy drive and you've just formatted the ubuntu partition :lolflag:

The negative psychological feelings towards potentially hard to remove software and subsequent recommendations based upon such scenarios, may be considered adverse presently and in the future

Hopefully this can be rectified then I can start advertising .........and you'll get 2 mabey 3 new users a month \\:D/

Devilin or Dev to me m8s mmmmmm Dev were have i seen that befor ?

[Henry Rayker]

The software, in my opinion, isn't that hard to uninstall (when I was new to Linux, I installed with minor difficulty, but uninstallation seemed even easier) I imagine that, if you can repartition the harddrive to do the installation, you can reformat the partition to do the uninstall...and for the GRUB thing, you have to use the fixmbr from the Windows install CD...this is really well documented.

A "start menu" uninstall method won't really be possible unless the MBR is fixed with a Windows CD....so I'm not too sure how effective that is.

[Devilin]

Hi Henry Rayker

type help grub error into Google and you'll see what I mean Results 1 - 10 of about 1,070,000 for HELP grub error

Ideally there should be no entries found on Google .. it should be as easy to remove as it is to install .. but clearly it isn't

And yes there are plenty of well documented how to remove pages ... somewhat overly well documented written by experts that have forgotten how to be stupid :) but who wants to read how-to guide just to remove software you've installed ? anybody you know :)

Doesn't the grub super disk contain the means of removal ?

[Oki]

Hi Devilin

I was just thinking about this today - I don't want to recommend dual boot for people since it is so hard to get it back as it was if they later change there mind. If you take a look in the forums, where users are asking for "how to remove Ubuntu", they seldom get any answers or good answers. If the Live cd also had a tool for this it would be much more tempting for the average users to try it. Many Windows users don't have a cd with Windows on(and I am not thinking about the pirates), so they are even more afraid to screw the Windows os up. Preinstalled os often comes without any CDs as an example.

So I agree with you 100% I think Ubuntu would get more users if they had this future. The installation part could not get more easier though.

Sorry for my English...

Edit;
I believe you can fix the Windows grub with the "grub super disk" quite easily(witch hasGUI), and then delete the Linux partition with gparted or Norton Partition Magic, but I have never tried it myself. I guess this is something most people could do them self, but it would be even better if the Live cd had this as an option under the "install Ubuntu" option. Perhaps others could confirm this?

[aysiu]

This may be viewed as a copout, but my opinion is that anyone who is even considering needing to remove Ubuntu later should stick with the Desktop CD (or live CD) and not actually install Ubuntu until she's either A) certain she's going to keep it or B) learns how to use the fixmbr option in Windows.

[[h2o]]

Isn't the Live CD all about testing before you decide if you want to install it?
I don't think neither Windows or OSX have an "uninstall" feature, or that it is necessary.

[Oki]

I don't agree with you on the A) part aysiu. I think most people need to try it out for some time before they can make up there minds. Yes they have the live cd option, but that is IMOH not as good as trying it and see how speedy it is. And some are worried about the future; could my needs change so I cant use Linux more, what if I get hardware that cant work and so on..

My point is(when I agree on Devilin post), if the Live cd had this future we could get even more users to try it out. I do belive "the trying out" thing will bring more users.

When it comes to the B) part; I dont know. There is a reason for why they have made the installing part so easy, and why they are trying to make it more easy(installing direct inside Windows). The point; fixmbr is hard for many to learn and/or to learn about.

[Devilin]

Hi Oki you have got beter English than wot I've got :) and I am English

Hi aysiu / [h2o]
copouts both of you

Although you can get a taste from the live CD it's only a taste
Installing drivers video TV cards satellite card etc etc you can't know until you've installed

And just because Windows does it this or that way ......... aye please :lolflag:

[em007a]

Hi Henry Rayker

type help grub error into Google and you'll see what I mean Results 1 - 10 of about 1,070,000 for HELP grub error

Ideally there should be no entries found on Google .. it should be as easy to remove as it is to install .. but clearly it isn't

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,170,000 for uninstall (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=0z7rRbjTLpfMpwLA1MWbCg&sig2=xZwquwZgtSb-ii4q7BdFlw&q=http://www.answers.com/uninstall%26r%3D67&usg=__misCb03PWSf6_e6mX7YTsMQy-24=) windows (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=0z7rRbjTLpfMpwLA1MWbCg&sig2=10M42Ab0ZN8i-bcrtG52sw&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=__83CNtPbjU9lBVM8AP7rra9cL-fE=) xp

Results 1 - 10 of about 34,900,000 for help (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=FEDrRejNAZeIpALUufSGCg&sig2=Uh03dxYkwLJEiO7nJWCryQ&q=http://www.answers.com/help%26r%3D67&usg=__XvSnQ4RjMVMd7YLsPLqxHIIL3Yc=) windows (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=FEDrRejNAZeIpALUufSGCg&sig2=O6elB_svG20mGX_g-OqNRQ&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=__o7UO9VKFcus-c3A4LcqoPsaEz70=) xp error (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=FEDrRejNAZeIpALUufSGCg&sig2=TUYgBRlx6xucTUwAlhkqeQ&q=http://www.answers.com/error%26r%3D67&usg=__QI8Afln-_uYziZ4QjCBsMP26Qzo=)


I'd say"Results 1 - 10 of about 1,070,000 for HELP grub error" is pretty low considering. :)

[Rhubarb]

... so, how do you uninstall windows then?
Wouldn't it be under Start --> Uninstall?
</sarcasm>

Really, why uninstall when (IMO) most people would simply re-install their preferred OS?

[Devilin]

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,170,000 for uninstall (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=0z7rRbjTLpfMpwLA1MWbCg&sig2=xZwquwZgtSb-ii4q7BdFlw&q=http://www.answers.com/uninstall%26r%3D67&usg=__misCb03PWSf6_e6mX7YTsMQy-24=) windows (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=0z7rRbjTLpfMpwLA1MWbCg&sig2=10M42Ab0ZN8i-bcrtG52sw&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=__83CNtPbjU9lBVM8AP7rra9cL-fE=) xp

Results 1 - 10 of about 34,900,000 for help (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=FEDrRejNAZeIpALUufSGCg&sig2=Uh03dxYkwLJEiO7nJWCryQ&q=http://www.answers.com/help%26r%3D67&usg=__XvSnQ4RjMVMd7YLsPLqxHIIL3Yc=) windows (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=FEDrRejNAZeIpALUufSGCg&sig2=O6elB_svG20mGX_g-OqNRQ&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=__o7UO9VKFcus-c3A4LcqoPsaEz70=) xp error (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=FEDrRejNAZeIpALUufSGCg&sig2=TUYgBRlx6xucTUwAlhkqeQ&q=http://www.answers.com/error%26r%3D67&usg=__QI8Afln-_uYziZ4QjCBsMP26Qzo=)


I'd say"Results 1 - 10 of about 1,070,000 for HELP grub error" is pretty low considering. :)

Considering ? em007a please :) yes the number dissatisfied windows uses are staggering but the numbers of Linux users compare to Windows :lolflag: the thing to think about is the people whom tried and didn't like Linux and then had trouble removing it will probably never try it again, and they warn all their friends about how difficult it is to remove 1,070,000 shouldn't something be done to rectify this ? or do you believe in the Windows attitude is more applicable in this situation ?


... so, how do you uninstall windows then?
Wouldn't it be under Start --> Uninstall?
</sarcasm>

Really, why uninstall when (IMO) most people would simply re-install their preferred OS?

I had the top Google search result for how-to uninstall Windows 98 :) aye they were the days good old 98 pity you had to format once a month or the thing crawl to a halt :lol:

Just format your hard drive and Windows is gone ):P

It's easier than ubuntu and that shouldn't be :confused: should it ?

[maniacmusician]

Considering ? em007a please :) yes the number dissatisfied windows uses are staggering but the numbers of Linux users compare to Windows :lolflag: the thing to think about is the people whom tried and didn't like Linux and then had trouble removing it will probably never try it again, and they warn all their friends about how difficult it is to remove 1,070,000 shouldn't something be done to rectify this ? or do you believe in the Windows attitude is more applicable in this situation ?



I had the top Google search result for how-to uninstall Windows 98 :) aye they were the days good old 98 pity you had to format once a month or the thing crawl to a halt :lol:

Just format your hard drive and Windows is gone ):P

It's easier than ubuntu and that shouldn't be :confused: should it ?
How is that easier than Ubuntu? If your format your Ubuntu hard drive, Ubuntu will be gone too.


I kind of understand your point; I don't think that an uninstaller would be a bad thing in any way, but I don't see it as much of a priority as you do.

[Oki]

Don't know if I understand you... but ..yes, we would loose some Windows users witch without the un-install option would try a little bit more, and then perhaps like it(I am in fact one of those!). But, I do also believe more people then today would try Linux if they had a "secure backdoor". It would also mean that average users like me could more safely try to get people to take a closer look at this fine OS.

Just my thoughts...

[Devilin]

How is that easier than Ubuntu? If your format your Ubuntu hard drive, Ubuntu will be gone too.

I kind of understand your point; I don't think that an uninstaller would be a bad thing in any way, but I don't see it as much of a priority as you do.


Hi maniacmusician ):P

NO!!! it won't from a Windows perspective dual boot, formatting ubuntu leaves an invisible partition with the pre-loading grub boot manager which can't find ubuntu so it errors out without the option of booting Windows and staggering amount of people have been caught in this trap .... staggering amount is not an exaggeration

If ubuntu is to grow then it needs personal recommendations as a absolute priority

[[h2o]]

I know the Live CD lack some features driver-wise, and it's a bit sad. I agree that it would not hurt if there was an "uninstall" option, but I just don't see its use. If you are skilled enough to install an operating system then I don't think there should be any problem solving how you remove it. Maybe just include a textfile that have instructions on how to reinstall the windows MBR.

[Devilin]

[h2o] :)

Scenario hi H2o hi dev :)
dev>.. Linux has finally come of age there's an operating system that anybody could use it's called ubuntu it's truly superb a real credible alternative without the major security risks involved with Windows and it's incredibly easy to set up a child could do it :)

h2o> sounds good :) maybe I should try it ? but what if I don't like it

dev > well if you don't like it you could just remove it

h2o > is that easy ?

dev > if your Linux expert then there's nothing easier you'll think it's a trivial thing that any child could do .............. but if you're not an expert then removal can be tricky you're probably get things wrong like 100,000 plus non experts and if you haven't got the windows cd or a floppy drive then you are truly stuffed you'll spend days trawling through a sea of text written in gibberish trying to find a way out

ho2 l> I'll think I'll pass then

Dev > Shane I think h2o could have contributed greatly to ubuntu ... aye

:)


ubuntu is open source any open source program if it is to improve and grow it needs new uses the more new uses it gets the better it will eventually become

I believe ubuntu has a bright future I believe given a chance it could match firefox's astonishing growth

Give it a uninstall option ... then give people the confidence to try it

[aysiu]

Installing an operating system is a huge commitment. There cannot be an uninstall button that will magically restore your partitions and boot loader back to Windows. If there were, its failure rate would make its existence moot.

Any time you mess with partitions and installing/uninstalling, you're playing with fire and should know what you're doing. Ubuntu isn't a web browser or a plugin. When you make it a program that can be installed and uninstalled, it's hard to make that transition from program to full-blown installation (just ask the people who created the Ubuntu .exe (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=338279)).

The boot loader issue is really a Windows issue, not a Ubuntu one. After all, if Ubuntu didn't install Grub to the MBR, would you blame Windows for not being able to be uninstalled? Of course not. Ubuntu's installer is intelligent and can overwrite the existing boot loader, resize an existing partition, and automatically add another operating system to the boot menu.

It's Microsoft's deficiency that its operating system cannot be easily restored without resorting to command-line tricks with fixmbr.

Let's just do this scenario instead:
Scenario hi H2o hi dev
dev>.. Linux has finally come of age there's an operating system that anybody could use it's called ubuntu it's truly superb a real credible alternative without the major security risks involved with Windows and it's incredibly easy to set up a child could do it

h2o> sounds good maybe I should try it ? but what if I don't like it

dev > Then don't install it. The great thing about Ubuntu is that you can try it without even affecting your hard drive. It creates a live session that runs out of your computer's memory. When you reboot, the live session is gone.

h2o > is that easy ?

dev > Yes. You just have to make sure you're able to boot from CD.

ho2 l> Sounds great. When should I actually make the commitment to install Ubuntu?

Dev > When you're ready. There's no rush. You can play with the live CD for weeks or even months before doing an actual installation. I am a bit wary about this line, though
it's incredibly easy to set up a child could do it That's simply not true, unless the child has gone through the trouble to make sure the hardware is all Linux-compatible. If it's an ATI video card with an unsupported wireless card, a Lexmark printer, and the need to have Photoshop (not GIMP), then it won't be easy at all.

I don't believe in hyping up Ubuntu. Tell the truth and people will stay. Lie to them, and they'll show up... and then leave.

I stand by Is Ubuntu for You? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63315) and not propaganda that oversells Ubuntu, overlooks Ubuntu's deficiencies, and hypes up Ubuntu's merits.

[qamelian]

[h2o]dev > if your Linux expert then there's nothing easier you'll think it's a trivial thing that any child could do .............. but if you're not an expert then removal can be tricky you're probably get things wrong like 100,000 plus non experts and if you haven't got the windows cd or a floppy drive then you are truly stuffed you'll spend days trawling through a sea of text written in gibberish trying to find a way out

ho2 l> I'll think I'll pass then

Dev > Shane I think h2o could have contributed greatly to ubuntu ... aye

Give it a uninstall option ... then give people the confidence to try it

You're being misleading in your statement that it is easy to remove Linux if you're a "Linux Expert". Removing linux requires essentially no knowledge of Linux whatsoever. It does require you to have some knowledge of the OS you are replacing it with. For example, to remove Linux from a Linux/Windows dual boot PC, you need to know how to use the tools provided with Windows to restore your MBR and reformat as NTFS/Fat32 the partitions occupied by Linux. Knowledge of Windows is what is important in this case, not of Linux.

I really thinks it's a little absurd to expect Linux to come with an uninstaller. I can't think of a single operating system that does!

EDIT: Beaten to the punch again!

[aysiu]

Knowledge of Windows is what is important in this case, not of Linux.

I really thinks it's a little absurd to expect Linux to come with an uninstaller. I can't think of a single operating system that does! qamelian stated my opinion more eloquently and succinctly than I could.

[Oki]

Devilin: But for a start; you could advertise for the Live cd - tell them to have a look and decide for them self, then they cant blame you afterwards. And think about it; do you find a un installer for Windows? No, so people cant think that Ubuntu Linux should have one either. And if they do come back to you later, tell them to try the super grub disk.

Personally I don't think they would want to remove it - its to good and free!

I still mean it would be better if the live cd had a tool for fixing the master boot record, as I wrote above(those tools can be found on the super grub disc - open s.), but I also agree with aysiu; you dont install an OS every day, so that's somthing to consider before and not after.
And I don't think it ever will get one, they need the space for other things...


My English sucks cus I am only 1/4 English But if you wanted me to, I could write totally correct Norwegian for you Lol :-D

[aysiu]

Oki, your English is just fine. A lot of native English speakers write more poorly than you do.

[Devilin]

You're being misleading in your statement that it is easy to remove Linux if you're a "Linux Expert". Removing linux requires essentially no knowledge of Linux whatsoever. It does require you to have some knowledge of the OS you are replacing it with. For example, to remove Linux from a Linux/Windows dual boot PC, you need to know how to use the tools provided with Windows to restore your MBR and reformat as NTFS/Fat32 the partitions occupied by Linux. Knowledge of Windows is what is important in this case, not of Linux.

I really thinks it's a little absurd to expect Linux to come with an uninstaller. I can't think of a single operating system that does!

EDIT: Beaten to the punch again!

Hi qamelian;2251775 ):P

You're absolutely correct ............. from your point of view :)
from a average windows user point of view.......... Windows doesn't recognise unnamed partitions "" like the grub partition ..... you'd need Linux knowledge just to know it's there ....
Even with a Windows CD if you're lucky enough to have one, the grub pre boots it with an error message

So its off to the Linux forms,

But if the ubuntu live CD came with the facility edit/delete the grub boot partition ie super grub

Most OS's enjoy this kind of facility Inc in their master install CD, don't they ?

.................................................. .................................................. ............................

aysiu

thanks for the links very informative especially this one

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=338279

And this one :)

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63315

I didn't realise there was an ATI issue I've tried it on five computers but they all use nvdia and although there are some WiFi issues that was to be expected

How about is some circumstances a child could install it :) it's certainly on the computers I've tested it on a lot easier to install than Windows

[Devilin]

opss

[qamelian]

Most OS's enjoy this kind of facility Inc in their master install CD, don't they ?
Actually, no. Most OSs come with the necessary tools for preparing a disc for it's own use. In the case of Windows for example, the Windows tools will quite happily help you prepare a disc for use with a typical Windows filesystem, but they are equally happy to bulldoze any other boot-loader you may use for another OS into the ground, requiring a smidgen of fancy footwork to make the other OS accessible. The good folks at Microsoft seem to find it inconceivable that the user may have a darned good reason for needing a second (or third!) OS.

Linux is already well ahead of the game here. Generally, you can prep any of a wide variety of filesystems out of the box, and most distros will detect your existing install of Windows and make the appropriate entries automatically in grub, lilo, or whatever boot manager is supported. Windows simply thinks to itself "We don't really want or need another OS, do we? Okay, snuff it!"