Will you buy preinstalled (K/X)Ubuntu PC/Laptop if Canonical plan to sell one?

[cyberkoa]

I was frustrated after hearing the news that Dell are still playing hide-n-seek with the customer in the request for a pre-installed Linux PC/Laptop.

I have tried to search Internet, I can find some companies are selling preinstalled PC/Laptop but the price is not cheap as what we expected.

Since those "big" company does not want to sell pre-installed Linux PC/Laptop , and keep trying to use some ridiculous excuse (I think they are afraid the evil empire) , why not Canonical Ltd do that ?

Joining force with a Asian vendor such as Lenova or Twinhead , take their component and Canonical just do the assembly (the initial stage) and sell it as a new brand, I believe there will be a business model for Canonical to start earning money which I think they are deserved.

Besides, they can provide the optional service/support contract to end user , maybe free for the first year, a fee for the later years.

If HP can earn so much from supporting Debian , I believe Canonical Ltd will have a chance .

To gain more support from customer, Canonical Ltd may also mentioned that , a certain % of the income will be allocated to the fund for continuing the development of Ubuntu so that it can remained free forever.

If those "BIG" companies do not want to do , Canonical Ltd, you do it.

Note : I forget to mention, the poll options is assuming you are in the plan to buy a PC/Laptop
The 2nd option should read as "Yes, even if the price is a bit higher than price offered by those "BIG" companies"

[yabbadabbadont]

You left out the "other" option on your poll.

If I ever decide to buy a laptop, and if it is affordable, and if it is sold directly in the US, then I would consider it.

[cyberkoa]

You left out the "other" option on your poll.

If I ever decide to buy a laptop, and if it is affordable, and if it is sold directly in the US, then I would consider it.

O .. seems like cannot modify the options in the poll after posted.

[FaceLeg]

I don't think the fact that version X of linux being pre-installed would stop me from immediately re-installing my preferred OS post-purchase.

I just wouldn't trust that company X would give me what I want - a clean, fresh install of the latest stable Ubuntu.

Re-installing is the only way to be sure, so I would do it regardless of the OS pre-installed.

I do not doubt that many others think the same.

I think that Dell selling blank lap-tops is about as good as it gets.

[RandomJoe]

No, I doubt I would buy one. Loading Linux on a machine is pretty darn easy to me, and I tend to customize the heck out of mine anyway so having it preloaded wouldn't save me much. I also doubt they would be able to have a sufficiently diverse line of machines to suitably fill the need/application I have at the time I buy. (Primarily thinking of desktop machines here - I like building my own.)

Now, in the case of laptops, if they were to partner with someone such that they work together to determine a Linux-friendly hardware set and verify it works well with Ubuntu then I would rate that laptop much higher than another machine that I don't necessarily know all the gory details of hardware-wise. (Provided I've heard of the vendor, or at least can find other info that gives me a good feeling about the build quality.)

The software load isn't a big deal to me, but I can certainly see where it might help less experienced / first-timers to have it ready to go when they pull it out of the box. (Heck, exploring a new system to figure out the hardware is one of my pleasures! ;) Nothing like scrolling thru 'dmesg' to see what was found after the first boot on a new machine!)

[alanjackson]

Last two desktops I bought came preinstalled with Redhat. I had them partition the disk with four root partitions, and I immediately loaded my favorite distro, but kept the original redhat as a failsafe booting partition. The other two partitions are for upgrades and playing. I figure it is the best way to insure that I get Linux compatible hardware, though that is less an issue than it used to be.

[Nils Olav]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many linux users enjoy doing menial tasks.

[cyberkoa]

One of my hope is, Canonical manage to open the market, they will have the negotiation capital to deal with the hardware manufacturer and persuade them to provide the drivers, they can actually let the Linux Kernel team to do that now.

In fact Dell has been offering N-series for quite a long time , however, Dell homepage does not mention it at all. Moreover, those N-series are mostly model targetted for business use such as Latitute. If Dell can offer preinstalled Mandriva PC/Laptop in France , why not in US or Canada ? Maybe they cannot earn money from the OS if preinstall Ubuntu, they can still go for Novell Suse or Mandriva as an extra option.

[yabbadabbadont]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many linux users enjoy doing menial tasks.

I think the more likely answer is that most linux users are control freaks. If I didn't do it, how do I know it was done right? ;)

[Nils Olav]

I think the more likely answer is that most linux users are control freaks. If I didn't do it, how do I know it was done right? ;)

That too, but some of us are just down right impractical about this.

[kevinf311]

I chose "Yes, as long as I can afford it."

What I am... yessing for is the laptop part of it. This in conjunction with the Hardware Whitelist that I think is floating around somewhere could make for a fairly painless laptop setup.

Say there is a Laptop out there that is made up completely of 100% Ubuntu compatible hardware. Then say that the retailer (Canonical) loads a vanilla install of the consumers choice of distro (K/X/Ed/Ubuntu v. 7/04/6.06/10) and does the less fun configuration parts. For example: funky screen resolutions, wireless setup, laptop-y buttons and indicators setup

I don't think that the Ubuntu way would allow installing the proprietary video drivers, but if the hardware is optimized, then that should be somewhat painless for the consumer to do on their own if they so choose.

I like the Paid Support option, might be useful for some as long as it doesn't become a dependency (not in the package sense :p ).

The reason I'm so gung-ho about the laptop is that I will be transferring to a mainly commuter school in a few months and it would be somewhat akward to lug my (partially cased) desktop around. And if my user statistics are any hint, I can't go too long without checking up on everyone here in the forums :)

P.S. Please excuse spelling mistakes, I'm in Maryland at my parents and this infernal machine doesn't check my spelling :roll:

[ramjet_1953]

Yes, as long as they have a world-wide service network.

By choice, I now live in north-east Thailand and there would need to be a service network here, as I have for my Acer Laptop.

They could do this easily, if they sold a re-baged reputible brand and did a deal with them for service.

Regards,
Roger :cool:

[310ei]

I voted no, I prefer installing it.

[kevinlyfellow]

We don't need canonical to make computers, 3rd parties do it, like system76. I don't really care if Dell just allows people to buy linux laptops. For the prices at dell, you can get a system76. I would like for them to market linux though, but there is no chance of that happening anytime soon.

[Betelgeuse]

I vote yes for the laptop. The BIG brands which known to be supporting linux do not sell computers with linux here, so their local offices are selling only computers "you_know_who" OS on them.

For the desktop, I like building my computer and selecting the parts good for my needs and for my budged. But Ubuntu (or all the linux community) should have a white list of hardware manufacturers who support free software and provide opensource drivers. I prefer to buy hardware from a company to support open source drivers. I'm now in the process of building a new desktop computer and I decided to buy mainboard from Intel just becouse they have onboard X3000 graphics chip which they offer free open source drivers and they are supporting xorg developer team. I do not want to give my money to ATI or NVIDIA becouse they are not agreeing to opensource their drivers or giving the hardware specs to kernel developers to make open source driver, but intel had my sympathy by supporting open source drivers.
And on the server side, I'm working as a software developer for database applications and whem my clients ask me about which server brand they should buy, I tell them to but from IBM becouse IBM is known to be supporting Linux and here in Turkey, they are opening their offices to the linux community for seminars and free training sessions so it's good for them. All other BIG brands (like HP) selling computers only with windows installed so I do not want to support them.

[igknighted]

Personally, I always build my own box. It is cheaper and I always get exactly what I want. Plus, I like to test a few distros on a new box before I find the one that works best, so having linux preinstalled means nothing, as I would wipe it anyway.

[aysiu]

We don't need canonical to make computers, 3rd parties do it, like system76. God knows I admire System76 and what it does, but what you're saying isn't true.

System76 doesn't make computers. They don't even commission them. They take computers designed for Windows and then install Ubuntu on them and do all sorts of crazy tweaks to get Ubuntu working. The computers are definitely designed for Windows. They have a Windows key (with the Microsoft symbol on it) on the keyboard, and System76 even sends you discs full of Windows drivers for the hardware.

I think it'd be definitely nice for Ubuntu to have something like what Apple has--a tight integration between hardware and software. You don't have to do tweaks to get OS X working on Apple hardware because the hardware is commissioned by Apple and designed to work with OS X. That's what we need--a laptop that's commissioned by Ubuntu to work with Ubuntu out of the box. You shouldn't have to need a System76 driver .deb file to get Ubuntu working with the hardware. The hardware manufacturer and Ubuntu developers should be working together on a laptop that works out of the box (clean install, no config file tweaks, no separate driver file)--suspend, hibernate, wireless, everything.

[FyreBrand]

God knows I admire System76 and what it does, but what you're saying isn't true.

System76 doesn't make computers. They don't even commission them. They take computers designed for Windows and then install Ubuntu on them and do all sorts of crazy tweaks to get Ubuntu working. The computers are definitely designed for Windows. They have a Windows key (with the Microsoft symbol on it) on the keyboard, and System76 even sends you discs full of Windows drivers for the hardware.

I think it'd be definitely nice for Ubuntu to have something like what Apple has--a tight integration between hardware and software. You don't have to do tweaks to get OS X working on Apple hardware because the hardware is commissioned by Apple and designed to work with OS X. That's what we need--a laptop that's commissioned by Ubuntu to work with Ubuntu out of the box. You shouldn't have to need a System76 driver .deb file to get Ubuntu working with the hardware. The hardware manufacturer and Ubuntu developers should be working together on a laptop that works out of the box (clean install, no config file tweaks, no separate driver file)--suspend, hibernate, wireless, everything. +1 to this. I think it would make a remarable difference to the end users experience to see K/X/Ubuntu preinstalled on a system that commissioned and tested. I wouldn't even mind paying in the same price range as a Windows laptop. As long as it has the same shipping options as Dell or other large scale vendors I would go for it.

[hardyn]

only if they could match warranty offered my other manufs, could be compeditively priced, and servicable outside the lower 48 etc...

just selling something will not be good enough for me.

[tbodine]

I'm kind of sorry to say, but I probably wouldn't buy a desk/laptop with pre-installed Ubuntu on it, unless it's the the best machine I could afford with Ubunt on it and it doesn't cost more money -- at least not too much more. Anyways, any computer I get would eventually get Ubuntu on it one way or another :P
It would be really nice to see one though, personally I probably wouldn't be buying one, but it would be easier to get others onto Ubuntu if it comes with their PC or laptop.

[MetalMusicAddict]

God knows I admire System76 and what it does, but what you're saying isn't true.

System76 doesn't make computers. They don't even commission them. They take computers designed for Windows and then install Ubuntu on them and do all sorts of crazy tweaks to get Ubuntu working. The computers are definitely designed for Windows. They have a Windows key (with the Microsoft symbol on it) on the keyboard, and System76 even sends you discs full of Windows drivers for the hardware.
Im sorry Aysiu. This simply isnt true. Please "show me the money". ;)

Especially as of late. They build their PCs with Ubuntu specifically in mind. They even have enough pull now to get custom cases made. They no longer have to use generic off-the-shelf cases. Its all custom built for you at time of order.

Talk to crichel who frequents the boards. I do and often. ;) He's a nice fellow. Ill point him to this thread.

[aysiu]

Carl sent me a Gazelle. I know what I'm talking about MetalMusicAddict. Read more here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=343798).

Does Carl try to pick as many Ubuntu-compatible parts as possible? Sure. Do the manufacturers design their parts with Ubuntu in mind? Clearly not, if the Windows key is on the keyboard, and the parts come with Windows drivers CDs.

[hardyn]

Im sorry Aysiu. This simply isnt true. Please "show me the money". ;)

Especially as of late. They build their PCs with Ubuntu specifically in mind. They even have enough pull now to get custom cases made. They no longer have to use generic off-the-shelf cases. Its all custom built for you at time of order.

Talk to crichel who frequents the boards. I do and often. ;) He's a nice fellow. Ill point him to this thread.

how are you defining cases? i would define case as the injection moulding.
custom built at time or order? like toss some ram a processor and hard disk in? again custom is loose term.

many many companies offer white books... my last machine was 'custom built at time of order' by me. i bought all the parts separately. it was only way at the time i could get discrete video and a reasonable hard disk at the same time.

it was mentioned in another thread... but bare bones notebooks are offered by MSI Asus and a few others, you could custom build your own machine.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Thanx aysiu for the cash. /me puts cash in pocket.

And somehow reading "Windows key" I got "Windows sticker" in my head. Thats what caught me, even though I was mistaken. ;) I also wonder how much it would cost them to have re replacement key made. :)

I will still say they make computers. They arent all just rebranded ASUS (whomever) laptops or desktops. Being able to get custom laptop cases no mater the internals is a big step.

I will also admit that Im a little protective of them as nobody even comes lose to supporting Ubuntu the way they do. :)

[Aurora Borealis]

I'd be happy to buy from the people who have made our lives easier. After some very frustrating experiences with the big company, I'm ready to hotfoot it to Canonical. And I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if it had to be that way. I'd rather it not, but that may not be possible.

[Dylnuge]

System76 already does this-it doesn't matter if its direct from Ubuntu's sponsor corporation or not.

Not to mention that many Linux users like to configure a desktop with their own choices. I know people who uninstall almost everything but the basic system from Ubuntu, then rebuild it their own way. I also know people who use Gentoo-which is essentially the same thing, without the uninstalling.

Here is the problems with Linux being sold:

1. Distros-everyone likes a different one. If you want a PC, you have a few choices-but the software is pretty similar, only hardware and pricing differ.
2. Choices-Linux is about choices. AbiWord or OpenOffice? GNOME or KDE? Rythymbox or Amarok? Firefox or Evolution/Konquerer? Windows-Office, Windows Media player (or iTunes, but never pre-installed), Internet Explorer.
3. Opportunity-Major companies will not develop Linux systems. Dell looks at the numbers-3.3% Linux, 90% Windows. (Mac is about 4%, but only Apple can legally make Macs). They stick with what 90% of users use, not realizing that 88% of them don't use Linux because they never have seen a system come preinstalled with it, and that Linux is not any of the reputations it gets-hard, nerdy, or unstable.

However, don't get me wrong. Linux needs to be on the desktop. Here is how it would work

1. Companies use Ubuntu/other distro but Preinstall Software on it, like CrossOver Office or Cedaga, that is not free. Also offer support and documentation-Charge from $50 to $200 for OS. Since Distros are the same at the core, and Support is now offered by the company, it should not matter.
2. Companies include options-either during purchase or through special setup screen-to select choices.
3. Companies incude "switch" material. Linux is not hard, just different.

[LookTJ]

I rather build my own desktop, on the other hand, I would buy a laptop from them.

[kevinlyfellow]

System76 doesn't make computers. They don't even commission them. They take computers designed for Windows and then install Ubuntu on them and do all sorts of crazy tweaks to get Ubuntu working. The computers are definitely designed for Windows. They have a Windows key (with the Microsoft symbol on it) on the keyboard, and System76 even sends you discs full of Windows drivers for the hardware.

I see your point of view, but maybe I'm just not as tight with definitions as you are ;-) They're computers are based on existing designs and such, but its not like they bought a bunch of Toshibas and stuck linux on it. Excluding the design part (chipsets and cases), from my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), they manufacture they're computers as much as hp or dell would; they buy from quanta computers for their laptops (again this is to the best of my knowledge) and they fill in the missing pieces. Sure it has a windows key, but where do buy a laptop keyboard without one (aside from macs). I get the impression that they buy the parts and stick it together, am I wrong?

btw: I have a Gazelle too

[Dylnuge]

Pretty sure you are right.

[kevinlyfellow]

Here is the problems with Linux being sold:

Don't forget the unfortunatly illegal parts of running linux, such as watching dvds

[Dylnuge]

Don't forget the unfortunatly illegal parts of running linux, such as watching dvds

Watching DVDs aren't illegal in Linux, just downloading the Codecs without paying for them are. If someone were to release codecs for Linux legally, then watching DVDs would be perfectly legal.

[DoctorMO]

Watching DVDs aren't illegal in Linux, just downloading the Codecs without paying for them are. If someone were to release codecs for Linux legally, then watching DVDs would be perfectly legal.

No, this is incorrect.

there are a few different levels:

1) Codec format is unknown and linux uses via some old wine code a way to load dlls from windows (wma, wmv etc)
2) Free and Open Source version of codec exists but patent disputes make the developers scared and they put on their website that it's for educational use (mp3:lame)
3) Free and Open Source Software version exists but encryptions laws such as the DCMA deem it illigal to decrypt your own content without 10 years in jail first (dvd:libdvdcss)

So I don't think it's entirely correct to bleat on about how we're not providing free codecs because it's just not true. we just don't want to be put in jail as developers for allowing you to view legal content.

Now go forth and complain at your government and companies which insist on locking everything down so only proprietory vendors can use it.

[kevinlyfellow]

If someone were to release codecs for Linux legally

https://shop.fluendo.com/

Watching dvds with css is illegal in the US, because you are breaking the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

[Kateikyoushi]

Only if the notebook worth it, isn't some bulk mainstream product, otherwise will continue to buy notebooks with windows and install myself.

[nick.inspiron6400]

I would buy a laptop with Ubuntu installed, as long as it is cheaper than a Microsoft Windows Winbook laptop.

[~LoKe]

I'd rather buy a Dell and sell them my COA, then install Ubuntu myself.

[TLE]

I would buy it if the price of it were in between that of a white-box and a windows box. I think it has to be cheaper than a windows-box since otherwise I could buy a white-box and install it myself cheaper, but I wouldn't mind paying something for the trouble of installing it and mixing up a computer that has very good Ubuntu compatibility. As long as that something is no more than the price of all the proprietary software I would normally pay for.

[euler_fan]

If and only if (1) the price is competitive and (2) the hardware specs are what I want.

I will freely admit that I have fallen in love with wide screens, fast processors, and seperate video cards in my laptops and that can be really pricey.

Ergo, I would rather find the best deal on that and then do the install myself if it means I can afford to get what I want.

[Omnios]

I would like to see an affordable Ubuntu Laptop that has a half decent build in nvidia card at a comparable price to other laptops that do not. I think that alone would make it worthwhile. Also my personal thought is that 2+ to 3 ghz is pushing it for laptop usability.

[igknighted]

You know what would be nice? If there was a list put out by cannonical or somebody else of laptops that were "ubuntu/linux certified". That is really what I would find useful. I would rather install myself, or build it myself in the case of a desktop (though I see the value in Ubuntu preinstalled for spreading the joy), but a "Ubuntu certified" sticker on a computer I am looking at would be great.

Along this vein, I think Cannonical selling computers (and System76 to some degree) is a great idea, but think of the audience that would be targeted? People who already use linux. If Dell gave them an option, like if Ubuntu was an option on the drop down box for OS that subtracted $75 from the cost of the computer, then we are getting somewhere. Now people not in the linux world are exposed, and they are the people who would benefit most from having linux preinstalled.

[aysiu]

If Dell gave them an option, like if Ubuntu was an option on the drop down box for OS that subtracted $75 from the cost of the computer, then we are getting somewhere. Not going to happen. Even now, Dell has no-OS laptops that are more expensive ($48-80 more) than their Windows counterparts--mainly because Microsoft gives Dell bulk discounts on Windows licenses, and Windows-preinstalled computers come with all sorts of crapware (trial versions of Norton, AOL, whatever), and Dell gets kickbacks from those as well.

[Bluesharp]

I would if I needed one, but

What the "evil empire" doesn't want is to see is computers set up on the retail sales floor so that customers can compare Ubuntu (or any good Linux distro) with Windows.

It's hard to find anyone who is enthusiastic about Windows - it's accepted as "that's the way it's going to be." The consumer thinks in terms of two choices. PC and Apple. It's from lack of exposure, but also from avoidance of the somewhat irrationally feared "hassle" of getting the system to work like they need. Never mind the nightmares some have had with Ad-ware/ Trojan infected Windows systems, never mind the cryptic and often imbecilic "layout" of Windows, never mind the clear and undisputed requirement that Anti virus and anti ad-ware software must be installed and will take up lots of use time to run enough to insure a clean system, never mind that to install Windows you must agree to a truly draconian "user agreement" that basically limits you to the rights of a renter, as opposed to an owner - privacy rights limited to if a "government" entity requests the personal information, never mind that you can't change a processor or motherboard (perhaps even less) without "deactivating" your operating system.

It's all about "perception." In those countries where the evil empire is recognized as such, those were monopoly is not tolerated unchecked, those where back-door dealing to cheat the consumer out of choices is viewed as a bad thing, the Ubuntu choice will not be a problem. But in the US, where the user agreement goes unread, where privacy rights have been in place so long that the will to protect them has evaporated, where ease of use is the white hot issue, and the evil empire has all the back door agreements it can make, it will be uphill all the way.

I know that Ubuntu is a great OS. But to succeed against the evil empire in places like the US, in the near future, it will have to be better than Windows in all respects. Then marketed in a way that makes that fact crystal clear.

[alexforcefive]

I would rather install myself, or build it myself in the case of a desktop (though I see the value in Ubuntu preinstalled for spreading the joy), but a "Ubuntu certified" sticker on a computer I am looking at would be great.

This is exactly what I was going to say! I would definitely buy "Ubuntu certified" hardware.

[tubasoldier]

aysiu always hits the nail on the head. It would need to be tightly integrated hardware. Apple has the right mindset going on here. The computers would have to work well out of the box with exisiting opensource software. Or a very easily downloadable and installable hack for the rest of the hardware.

[fdrake]

i wonder what would be the difference in price for 2 computers identical in hardware but one using linux and opensource softwares the other one instead windows and microsoft's programs.

[aysiu]

i wonder what would be the difference in price for 2 computers identical in hardware but one using linux and opensource softwares the other one instead windows and microsoft's programs.
The Windows one will be cheaper because of all the crapware that also comes with it (AOL, Norton, etc.).

[Takmadeus]

The fact is (and I have been thinking about it) wouldn't it be better to sell ubuntu modified PDAs? I would really love an ubuntu PDA (like the ones sold in india) and hopefully they would be a lot cheaper than those of the BIG companies....

[fdrake]

The Windows one will be cheaper because of all the crapware that also comes with it (AOL, Norton, etc.).
yes but what you get at the end is a bunch of trial software that will expire after 30 days. so at the end adding $60 for norton, $100 for microsoft office,without adding the other crap, you should add at you original price $150/$200 for a pc or laptop,

[claudex]

I think it' s a good idea to sell ubuntu pc. It reinforce the idea that linux it's a real operating system and that can replace Windows for free. If anybody now that he can spare 150€ (I don't know the price in other country, it was actually the price of windows with norton and some other program) to going on internet, listen to music, and go on msn. I think a lot of people use linux

Excuse me for the English error, I'm a French who learn English, don't hesitate to correct me.

[Dylnuge]

yes but what you get at the end is a bunch of trial software that will expire after 30 days. so at the end adding $60 for norton, $100 for microsoft office,without adding the other crap, you should add at you original price $150/$200 for a pc or laptop,

That's not the point-thats IF you buy the software. AOL, Norton, etc, are not part of the PC usually, they are trial versions. The PC Manufacturer/Distributer gets paid to put the versions on there-AOL likes the idea of people opening up their computers to a glaring Try Free for 30 Days-Enter Credit Card Now, Cancel Any Time, but Cancel too late and you pay message.

Therefore, not having the junk on the PCs is more expensive. Dell, of course, is stupid selling more expensive computers with no OS. Who would buy them, when they could just insert their Ubuntu CD and wipe the system. I am pretty sure you can take something (but not much) off the price by choosing Preformatted Hard Drive (No OS) from the drop down.

[aysiu]

It's the same reason a magazine with no advertisements will always be more expensive than the similar magazine with advertisements.

You don't actually have to buy anything from the people who advertise in the magazine--the advertisers still pay the magazine for publishing the ads.

Likewise, you don't actually have to buy those trial versions of AOL or Norton. They'll still pay Dell just for putting the trial versions on there.

[kristalsoldier]

The fact is (and I have been thinking about it) wouldn't it be better to sell ubuntu modified PDAs? I would really love an ubuntu PDA (like the ones sold in india) and hopefully they would be a lot cheaper than those of the BIG companies....

Hey I am going to India in 2 weeks! What PDA is this? If I can find it, I'll buy it! Please do let me know!

Thanks

PS: You are not referring to the 'simputer' are you? If yes, it is not a PDA, it is a 'simple computer' (hence the name).

[tkjacobsen]

Yes if the price is fair... And i need a new laptop.

[Omnios]

It would be nice if they made a best value for the buck lap top with a entry level low cost nvidia say even a 64meg for a price similar to Dell etc. Best value for the buck may save about $100 and Ubuntu even more. As for the video card I do not think laptop buyers are to picky as long as it peforms better than a build in intel. It might even be interesting to see a custom manufactured board with a build in nvidia chip.

[Dylnuge]

It's the same reason a magazine with no advertisements will always be more expensive than the similar magazine with advertisements.

You don't actually have to buy anything from the people who advertise in the magazine--the advertisers still pay the magazine for publishing the ads.

Likewise, you don't actually have to buy those trial versions of AOL or Norton. They'll still pay Dell just for putting the trial versions on there.

I understand that, but your formula does not make much sense. It's more like if you buy a magazine with a $50 piece of software (to the OEM) as opposed to buying an ad-free, software free, magazine. If its cheaper to buy the one with the software, you would always buy that and just throw the software out (reformat the drive), which would also remove the ads anyway.

Anyone who want's Linux on their drive and nothing else would realize that a system with Windows pre-installed and a system with nothing installed have only one real difference-price.

PS: I looked through dell and could not even find a system that let you choose preformatted.

[aysiu]

a system with Windows pre-installed and a system with nothing installed have only one real difference-price. And the difference in price comes because of all the crapware (advertisements for Norton and AOL) that comes along with Windows. Those advertisements make the Windows system cheaper.

I think you completely missed the point of my last post.

It's more like this:

One magazine is glossy and has lots of advertisements. It's very thick, too--hundreds of pages. The cover price is $5.95.

The other magazine is not glossy, has no advertisements, and it's not thick at all. The cover price is $15.95.

The difference (like Windows+crapware v. FreeDOS sans crapware) comes from advertisements. Advertisements subsidize productions costs.

What part of this are you not understanding?

[Dylnuge]

The part where no user would be dumb enough to buy a PC with a blank hard drive for more money.

Let me put it this way: Lets say that for either magazine, you can eaisly remove all the adds, the glossy cover, and its thickness, just with a few clicks or keypresses. Anyone who has installed Linux before knows that they can just do away with Windows.

I understand that it may be more expensive for Dell to offer the option of a blank hard drive. I am just wondering why they would, when users are a bit smarter then that.

PS: You can reinstall Windows too, if you want to get rid of the AOL trials and all that. I don't think Dell puts them on a recovery disk-yet.

[towsonu2003]

that's pretty good: only 7% will not buy it if offered... if they do, I hope their prices won't be like those of emperor linux.

[zubrug]

Yip, as I am currently thinking of upgrading mine, this would give me the benefit of a new system that will be very linux friendly and at the same time support canonical. (since I cannot afford to buy a new system and donate to canonical)

[FyreBrand]

The part where no user would be dumb enough to buy a PC with a blank hard drive for more money.

Let me put it this way: Lets say that for either magazine, you can eaisly remove all the adds, the glossy cover, and its thickness, just with a few clicks or keypresses. Anyone who has installed Linux before knows that they can just do away with Windows.

I understand that it may be more expensive for Dell to offer the option of a blank hard drive. I am just wondering why they would, when users are a bit smarter then that.

PS: You can reinstall Windows too, if you want to get rid of the AOL trials and all that. I don't think Dell puts them on a recovery disk-yet.
You can only take the analogy so far. The configuration for a Windows machine will not take into account, in any way, driver compatibility with the Linux kernel. In fact some hardware may be software driven just for the Windows platform. A classic example of this is the Winmodem and now wireless.

What you're getting when you pre-configure a system (currently there n-series which are latitudes for small businesses) with freeDOS is that they are providing hardware options they think will work with the kernel and open drivers. That isn't to say they do it well, but that is the idea. By supporting the less crapware option of a Linux install you are also supporting the effort to coordinate hardware that is commissioned to function well under the kernel and open drivers.

Dell doesn't offer install disks by default anymore. You have to pay extra for them. What they do is put a Norton Ghost image on a seperate partition so you can restore your system to the factory shipped condition. .......crapware included...... If you want Windows and Dell Driver install disks (essential to get many of their systems to talk to the internet) you must pay (as a home consumer) $10 - 20 extra. The image they provide for business customers is different and they also supply the Dell Driver disks. They don't supply the Windows disks because that is on the image and we have a MS volume licensing contract so we have all the install disks we need.

[ShareBuntu]

I think the more likely answer is that most linux users are control freaks. If I didn't do it, how do I know it was done right? ;)
I couldn't agree more. The reason I switched from Windows was paranoia related. Oh, and because Linux is free!

As for Canonical or any other company offering machines with Linux pre-installed? The more the better. I firmly believe that's one way to get hardware manufacturers to recognize Linux and start supporting it properly.

[billdotson]

I personally would not buy one, but the only reason is because I prefer to build my own PCs and I do not care for laptops. Although ANY manufacturer that can sell Linux pre-installed is a good thing because that will give developers and hardware manufacturers a reason to give Linux support. Having Adobe Photoshop, Quicken, TurboTax or commercial PC games available on Linux would be great!

[Quillz]

Most likely, I'd buy one through Dell instead. I was also considering a MacBook, then running (K/X)Ubuntu on a virtual machine.

[hedgefighter]

The reason I switched to Linux was so that I didn't have a giant corporation dictating the use of my computer. I also build my own desktop, but I would probably buy a pre-build if it had Ubuntu installed. And I would definitely buy a laptop with Ubuntu installed. I've had more trouble than I care for getting my Inspiron working - thanks Broadcom. I would even pay a higher price if Canonical sold it as I know my money would be going to support something I believe in.

[beefcurry]

better for canonical to invest in system76 or somthing.

[Lord Illidan]

I'd buy it if it was around the same price as the BIG companies, or a bit cheaper. Why would I buy it? Because


Less risk of getting components which don't work with linux. In a desktop this problem is less so, but in a laptop...especially with wifi, etc, you get the point.
Sometimes you don't want to mess around with drivers and stuff, but you want everything to just work. And given Ubuntu's tradition of doing just that in their distro...I'd expect the laptop and its hardware to just work too.Wifi is the big problem for me though, and broadcom drivers...If canonical manages to release a laptop which surmounts those obstacles and has Ubuntu preloaded ready for use, I'd jump at it. I know there is System 76 but it doesn't ship to Europe.

Also, if I could configure what i wanted, like I saw on System 76's design, it would be cool. I'd like reasonable graphics for example.

Ultimately, if they really do it, they'd probably just inject some mega cash into System 76, make it international, and lower their prices. And also get it recognised with some advertising. At least, that's what I would do :).

[fuscia]

i got my system76 (pangolin model) last june. it had everything i wanted on it and it was about the price i expected to pay. i don't know anything about hardware, so i wanted somebody who did to make sure everything i got would work with linux. i also did not want to pay a dime for windows as i had no intention of ever using it. the components, when i got my laptop, were asus, seagate, corsair, a nvidia card (and whatever else goes into a laptop). the nvidia card needs a driver and, in some distros, my wireless needs firmware. other than that, everything works on a variety of different distros. a number of them (sabayon, elive, the late kanotix, suse, pclinuxos) have my wireless going, out of the box and sabayon has a nvidia driver (even on the live cd). i'm pretty delighted with my machine, especially the wsxga screen (which they don't seem to offer anymore, unfortunately).

[Aurora Borealis]

Any chance Canonical will sell one?

[beefcurry]

its not if we will, but how. I would definitely buy one if I could. System76 is good but its not global, dosnt ship to Asia so we should just wait till system76 goes global. On their website:


Official Ubuntu Linux OEM

I would love to buy a Darter, if it came with a nVidia graphics, but too bad it dosn't. What a shame, I can't play WoW on an integrated.

[Phatfiddler]

I will buy a box pre-loaded with Linux just to know that all of the hardware is supported. I will probably then load my distro of choice depending on what I need it for (server, desktop, file storage) without worries. I will need one very soon, but am waiting out the market to see which new players emerge.

[jpkotta]

Well, I guess I would buy my next laptop from Linux-preinstallation company. I don't ever plan on buying another computer with Windows preinstalled. I want to try my hand at building a desktop, and if that works out well, I'll probably never buy a desktop from an OEM again.

But I challenge the whole idea of this thread. Why would Canonical start building hardware? Aren't they just software/support? I like the Unix philosophy: do one thing and do it well. If they have the capital to get into a competitive business like computer building, I think it would be better spent on improving the OS, and getting the big OEMs to ship it.

[slider2800]

Hell yea. would definiately buy one.