Profanity

[Kilz]

Recently, I reported a post in the 64bit user section. The post contained the words "god damn". This in my opinion is profanity. Not just mild profanity, but truly offensive words that I believe have no place on the Ubuntu forums. The Ubuntu Forums Code of Conduct have rules dealing with profanity

3. Profanity: Remember that the forums are used by people of all age groups and of all tolerance levels regarding profanity usage. When in the support areas of the forum, please try to keep your language polite and courteous and refrain from the usage of profanities. In the Cafe and Backyard areas, mild profanity/swearing is allowed in the context of general speech. Explicit profanity/swearing is not allowed, and under no circumstances will we allow any profanity to be directed toward another person. Please see the Ubuntu Code of Conduct's requirements to "Be Considerate" and to "Be Respectful" and the descriptions given there for more exact specifications. A language filter is in place to catch any profanities that you may have accidentally used. Do not attempt to circumvent the language filter by using variations or slight misspellings of profanities.


The post was in the Support area, not the Cafe or Backyard areas, so according to the rule not even mild profanity is to be allowed. The words are considered profanity by many people, including myself. The are even described as profanity in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation#Profane_language) and the Mirriam Webster dictionary entry 4 calls is a curse or a swear word (http://www.webster.com/dictionary/damned).

As stated above I reported this and received a pm from ComplexNumber.


Originally Posted by ComplexNumber
hi
just to make you aware, using the word "god" isn't against the rules.
this is a forum where there is fair play to all religions, but this isn't a religious forum.

regards

and when I replied back that it was profanity


Originally Posted by ComplexNumber
not that i'm aware of. none of the other moderators think so either. maybe on a religious forum, but not here.

While this isnt a religious forum, it does contain people of faith. This profanity is highly offensive to me, and all Christians. Saying this isnt a religious forum should in no way make this ok. There are rules on the forums. I hope that they will be followed.

[KiwiNZ]

I will have a look at this .

In the interim can you post a link to the post in question ... Thanks

[Kilz]

Sure here is a link
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2233751&postcount=1

[KiwiNZ]

We need to consider the context in which such phrases are used and the now common usage of such phrases in society.

If you consider the now common usage of the term “ God Damn” and variations you will see that they are widely accepted. Please look at the following references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/goddamn (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/goddamn)
http://www.answers.com/topic/goddamn (http://www.answers.com/topic/goddamn)

The term God damn is now widely used in most sectors of the community and is acceptable in most media and prime time television etc. It is used as an intensifier as opposed to profanity.

If you look at the context it is used in the post in question …
“…Now, I'm just trying to install a god damn nvidia driver for my (ok old but still) Ti4400…”

It is clearly being used as an intensifier and not meant as a profanity or a religious insult.

With regards to the rules for Ubuntu Forums, it is fair to say that this is a community and as such must take into account the current accepted standards of the community. To that end I would have to say that the use of God Damn in this context is acceptable to the majority of the community.

[Kilz]

I know of no place this is considered acceptable. Looking into the context of something to make it appear alright is wrong. So are you saying as long as the community thinks its ok, you can bend the rules? What is allowed on TV is the standard? Well on tv they can say damn. They cant say god in front of it.
The words in there clear meaning are calling the damnation of god on anything. Be it a person place or thing. That is not right. is is offensive profanity. By allowing this you take a little step to allowing more.

From your links, lets take a look.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation

Profane language
"Damnation" (or, more commonly, "damn", or "god damn") is widely used as a moderate profanity.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/goddamn

leads to damn (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/damn)

damn Pronunciation (dm)
v. damned, damn·ing, damns
v.tr.
1. To pronounce an adverse judgment upon. See Synonyms at condemn.
2. To bring about the failure of; ruin.
3. To condemn as harmful, illegal, or immoral: a cleric who damned gambling and strong drink.
4. To condemn to everlasting punishment or a similar fate; doom.
5. To swear at.
v.intr.
To swear; curse.
interj.
Used to express anger, irritation, contempt, or disappointment.
n.
1. The saying of "damn" as a curse.


http://www.answers.com/topic/goddamn
leads to

damn (dăm)

v., damned, damn·ing, damns.

v.tr.

1. To pronounce an adverse judgment upon. See synonyms at condemn.
2. To bring about the failure of; ruin.
3. To condemn as harmful, illegal, or immoral: a cleric who damned gambling and strong drink.
4. To condemn to everlasting punishment or a similar fate; doom.
5. To swear at.

v.intr.

To swear; curse.

So is swearing using the name of God something you really believe is ok?

[KiwiNZ]

As I said , it depends on context.

The poster originally states "...I'm just trying to install a god damn nvidia driver ".
Two of the definitions you have quoted in your post can apply to statement.Those being ..

2. To bring about the failure of; ruin.
3. To condemn as harmful,

The context the OP has used this is not a profanity.

[Kilz]

As I said , it depends on context.

The poster originally states "...I'm just trying to install a god damn nvidia driver ".
Two of the definitions you have quoted in your post can apply to statement.Those being ..

2. To bring about the failure of; ruin.
3. To condemn as harmful,

The context the OP has used this is not a profanity.

I dont see the context excuse in rule 3 in the support areas. Please point it out. Granted the excuse exists in the Cafe and Backyard areas. Areas I will not frequent. But no place in the rule does it state that profanity is allowed in the support areas based on context.

3. Profanity: Remember that the forums are used by people of all age groups and of all tolerance levels regarding profanity usage. When in the support areas of the forum, please try to keep your language polite and courteous and refrain from the usage of profanities. In the Cafe and Backyard areas, mild profanity/swearing is allowed in the context of general speech. Explicit profanity/swearing is not allowed, and under no circumstances will we allow any profanity to be directed toward another person. Please see the Ubuntu Code of Conduct's requirements to "Be Considerate" and to "Be Respectful" and the descriptions given there for more exact specifications. A language filter is in place to catch any profanities that you may have accidentally used. Do not attempt to circumvent the language filter by using variations or slight misspellings of profanities.

[jdong]

Kiwi,

I know at least here the use of that phrase in society is regarded strictly as a curse phrase and not widely accepted by any means.... (now if they were ATI drivers.....)

[KiwiNZ]

I dont see the context excuse in rule 3 in the support areas. Please point it out. Granted the excuse exists in the Cafe and Backyard areas. Areas I will not frequent. But no place in the rule does it state that profanity is allowed in the support areas based on context.

.

Its a rule of English. Depending on the context used a word is or is not profanity. As I have already explained , the context the words were used in the post in question are NOT profanity therefore rule 3 does not apply.

[Kilz]

Its a rule of English. Depending on the context used a word is or is not profanity. As I have already explained , the context the words were used in the post in question are NOT profanity therefore rule 3 does not apply.

If that were true (and I dont concede that it is) then there would have been no need to clarify the rule allowing this in the Cafe and Backyard areas.

3. Profanity: Remember that the forums are used by people of all age groups and of all tolerance levels regarding profanity usage. When in the support areas of the forum, please try to keep your language polite and courteous and refrain from the usage of profanities. In the Cafe and Backyard areas, mild profanity/swearing is allowed in the context of general speech. Explicit profanity/swearing is not allowed, and under no circumstances will we allow any profanity to be directed toward another person. Please see the Ubuntu Code of Conduct's requirements to "Be Considerate" and to "Be Respectful" and the descriptions given there for more exact specifications. A language filter is in place to catch any profanities that you may have accidentally used. Do not attempt to circumvent the language filter by using variations or slight misspellings of profanities.

To me there is no excused way of using this profanity. It is calling the wrath of god to eternal damnation. Also I have found other profanity using the search function. Is this the appearance we want to put forth to the world? That we need to use crude profanity, that it is necessary, and that it must be defended?

[KiwiNZ]

To repeat , the use of the term God dammed in the in the context is NOT profanity.

Here is some other examples to help you understand this .

Example One

The cut caused a bloody mess on the bench ...Profanity ? No

The man was abloody idiot ... profanity ? yes mild

Example Two

The file I used to sharpen the axe was ******* .. profanity ? No the file name is Flat *******

The Policeman was a ******* ... Profanity ? Yes

I think we can put this issue to sleep now

[Kilz]

To repeat , the use of the term God dammed in the in the context is NOT profanity.

Here is some other examples to help you understand this .

Example One

The cut caused a bloody mess on the bench ...Profanity ? No

The man was abloody idiot ... profanity ? yes mild

Example Two

The file I used to sharpen the axe was ******* .. profanity ? No the file name is Flat *******

The Policeman was a ******* ... Profanity ? Yes

I think we can put this issue to sleep now


I dont see any difference in the examples. Neither does the profanity filter. You also use a term in the first example with multiple uses. But if what your saying is that profanity must be used towards someone, the rules IMHO dont say that.

[KiwiNZ]

The word in example two , ( I have written it backwards so it wont get filtered ) DRATSAB

[Kilz]

The word in example two , ( I have written it backwards so it wont get filtered ) DRATSAB

The terms and way you used the words were well chosen. Mainly because they have crept into the languages with different meanings. There is no different meaning for g** da**. Regardless on what it is used on it still has the same meaning. It is a curse, calling down the damnation of god on something.

[ubuntu-geek]

Kilz, I understand your position. However, the use of the word god here is not prohibited while the term used in the post referenced can be taken out of context as a curse word in the context it was used in it is not.

You have your beliefs and thats great. If the use of the offending was used in a religious fashion to abuse a religion we would act accordingly. However it wasn't. There is no need to continue down this road you are going, we understand your position.

[Kilz]

Kilz, I understand your position. However, the use of the word god here is not prohibited while the term used in the post referenced can be taken out of context as a curse word in the context it was used in it is not.

You have your beliefs and thats great. If the use of the offending was used in a religious fashion to abuse a religion we would act accordingly. However it wasn't. There is no need to continue down this road you are going, we understand your position.

I would not care if the word god was used alone, that isnt the profanity that was posted. The word damn is short for damnation. Calling down the wrath of god to eternal damnation. Coupled with god , it is a curse. I know of no other context when the word god is coupled with it.
Even if it was of a different context (and I am not conceding that it is) the forum rules do not excuse profanity because of context in the support forums.
Are you saying it is ok to offend every Christian that may read that term and other posts that may use it?

[KiwiNZ]

I would not care if the word god was used alone, that isnt the profanity that was posted. The word damn is short for damnation. Calling down the wrath of god to eternal damnation. Coupled with god , it is a curse. I know of no other context when the word god is coupled with it.
Even if it was of a different context (and I am not conceding that it is) the forum rules do not excuse profanity because of context in the support forums.
Are you saying it is ok to offend every Christian that may read that term and other posts that may use it?

You are completely missing the point. You need to follow what we are saying about context.

Context has a huge impact on meaning in the english Language.

We are certainly NOT going to go through all the rules for Ubuntu Forums and qualify each and everyone to take into account English Language rules and to qualify each and every one to take into account context etc .

You have made your point , we have made our decision , it is time to move on .