Why you should use Ubuntu GNU/Linux, instead of proprietary OS/software

[JarG0n]

PUNKCAST#905: http://punkcast.com/905/index.html

jkeyes0 posted this url in the #Ubuntu-ky channel today. I think the video provides the justification for why nearly everyone should want to dump their current proprietary OS, such as Windows XP, and especially Vista, in favor of a GNU/Linux distribution, such as Ubuntu.

I would like to nominate this thread as sticky for all new users that view this Kentucky LoCo forum.

Keep in mind, that while Richard may appear as a radical on this subject, there is probably good justification for his positions on using proprietary software. Not everyone will hold the same views, but they should probably be taken into consideration, especially given Microsoft's reputation of blatant disregard & abuse of its users privacy. This trend will only get worse going forward with Vista, and future Microsoft OS.

Richard M Stallman on "What's GNU?"

PUNKCAST#905: http://punkcast.com/905/index.html

UPDATE (3/17/07): "NSA, Microsoft Worked Together on Windows Vista Security" http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=28077

UPDATE (7/21/07): http://www.abanet.org/journal/ereport/jy13tkjasn.html
Alternate: http://abajd.com/magazine/a_lot_of_room_in_its_view/

A Lot of Room in Its View
Microsoft's Vista stores much more data—and may affect the discovery process
By Jason Krause

Vista—Microsoft’s latest operating system—may prove to be most appropriately named, especially for those seeking evidence of how a computer was used.

[kevCast]

Very nice. Long live Open-Source.

[Koji-Murasame]

I watched the video last night. I'm not in complete agreement with everything Mr. Stallman says, but he certainly makes good points for freedom and the GNU project. I would highly recommend the video if you are in any way interested in free software and it's philosophy.

[deanlinkous]

thanks for that - I had not ran across that one!

[jkeyes0]

Yeah, I suggested the video in IRC last night. I stumbled upon it by using streamtuner (downloaded from automatix) and browsing through the default channels.

[JarG0n]

Yeah, I suggested the video in IRC last night. I stumbled upon it by using streamtuner (downloaded from automatix) and browsing through the default channels.

Kudos to you sir. You probably just upped future Ubuntu usage in KY by 200%.

[Condoulo]

Those videos are just pure genius.

(and so is Firefox Spell check apparently)

[etank]

I'm not sure that I agree with everything that he said but for the most part I am on board. We need a less hippie looking spokes person though. :lolflag:

[Condoulo]

Yeah, he does look like a hippie.... but he did mention he has been working in the free Software movment since the early 80s if I remember correctly.

[bkingx]

I plan on watcing it a little later today. It seems from what I have read that he has some pretty good opinions on Opensource.

[JarG0n]

UPDATE (3/17/07): "NSA, Microsoft Worked Together on Windows Vista Security" http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=28077

Give me a break with the Microsoft propaganda machine! What exactly does the worlds greatest "spy" agency have to offer the worlds prominent commercial operating system developer, other than ways to obfuscate their obligatory back door mechanism from the public, while purporting to be reviewing aspects of their computer security model?

If Microsoft was really "concerned" about their new Vista security model, the way to address it would be to release the source code for its operating system under a restricted license, and have the worlds best and brightest computer security experts review and critique it. One can argue the CIA employs the best and brightest, but there will always be an issue of public trust when people do not already trust their elected leaders, and those who pull their puppet strings.

The worn out mantra "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.", doesn't hold water post 1913, with the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank (now changed to System), which is neither Federal, a bank, or holds any reserves; it is centralization of the worlds most powerful; period. How ironic is it that Microsoft and the CIA hides everything, but expects the full trust of the public?

Don't get me wrong, we need an organization like the CIA, but it has to be kept in check somehow. Case in point: "Report Finds FBI Misused PATRIOT Act Powers":
http://www.epic.org/

"The Department of Justice Inspector General has determined that the FBI abused the National Security Letter authority established by the Patriot Act. With a National Security Lettter, the FBI can demand information from companies and individuals without any court approval. The Inspector General found unreported violations of law in 22% of the cases examined and also that the FBI did not report the actual number of Security Letters to Congress as required by law. The FBI acknowledged today that there has been "inadequate auditing and oversight" of National Security Letter authority. In 2006, EPIC recommended that Congress investigate abuses in FBI intelligence gathering and recommended improved reporting requirements for National Security Letters. More information at EPIC Patriot Act page. (Mar. 9)"

:lolflag:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/

Through the process of selective enforcement of laws, abuse of power is and will be used to silence and/or destroy political enemies, even though political dissenters may have done nothing technically illegal. If they haven't, it can be fabricated, as in many IRS 'tax fraud' cases (see below). If you oppose what those with power (the World Bank) are doing, the system will be used against you if your efforts amount to more than a net zero effect. If you don't believe any of this hogwash, then take a gander at these:

America, from Freedom to Fascism: http://www.freedomtofascism.com/
We the People Foundation: http://www.givemeliberty.org/

:popcorn:

[montgoej]

Well...NSA worked with Microsoft for XP security too(NSAKEY)... although, NSA worked with Linux security in SELinux...
~Jordan Montgomery

[JarG0n]

Well...NSA worked with Microsoft for XP security too(NSAKEY)... although, NSA worked with Linux security in SELinux...
~Jordan Montgomery

No surprise there really. I think the difference with Vista is that the NSA worked with Microsoft prior to the release. I don't see why any of this is news, though. If SELinux is open source so the public can view it, I think the NSA working on it is fantastic!! But as far as this thread goes, most people don't want 'big brother inside' a closed source system. The trust just isn't there.

Heck, with Ubuntu, I may even be willing to start buying Intel CPUs again! :)

[Condoulo]

Heck, with Ubuntu, I may even be willing to start buying Intel CPUs again! :)

When it comes to processors, I say intel all the way, no matter what operating system.

[redoscar3]

For those who are interested in learning more about the origins of GNU, Linux, and Open Source software, I'd like to recommend these two references. The first is a book by Glyn Moody called "Rebel Code : Inside Linux and the Open Source Revolution". It is copyright 2001, may be out of print, but should be available through your public library.

The second is a documentary DVD called "Revolution OS" by J.T.S. Moore. It actually comes on 2 DVDs, and has lots of interviews with Stallman, Linus, and other pioneers of the open source movement. Although I got mine through Amazon, I believe that Netflix has it available in their catalog.

Ubuntu probably wasn't even conceived at the time these references were produced, but they give a wonderful background to how we got to where we are today. I highly recommend them.

Red

[Condoulo]

That sounds like something I should watch.

[redoscar3]

That sounds like something I should watch.

Ahh, well you could also read the book. A quick check at Amazon shows that they still carry a paperback edition. I was lucky enough to buy the hardback several years ago when I was first trying out Linux.

But seriously, these two references are a quick way to "catch up" on your GNU/Linux/Open Source history lesson, if you care for such a thing.

Red

[jkeyes0]

Ahh, well you could also read the book. A quick check at Amazon shows that they still carry a paperback edition. I was lucky enough to buy the hardback several years ago when I was first trying out Linux.

But seriously, these two references are a quick way to "catch up" on your GNU/Linux/Open Source history lesson, if you care for such a thing.

Red

By the way, you can also get the DVD from Blockbuster Online. They have a free two-week trial (sometimes a 1 month trial, if you can find a coupon), and it just shipped out to me today. :)

[SonicSteve]

Very interesting, I now understand much more about Gnu, Linux, and why it's important to think of them separately and together.

I do wish that he wasn't so overtly anti God, he will cause people to reject him by this alone even though much of what he says needs to be heard. A lesson in life is do not make enemies unnecessarily. I do not understand why he wears the "impeach God" button on his chest. Can anyone explain why he feels that God's impeachment either figuratively, symbolically, or literally has anything to do with his crusade?

He has given me much to think about.

[montgoej]

In the book "Free As In Freedom", which is a biography of Stallman it explains why. I don't remember his exact reasoning, but it goes pretty far back. If I can dig out my copy of "The Open CD", which has the book on it, I'll look it up. I admit though, the whole "Impeach God" thing is gonna give people another reason not to use GNU/Linux, no matter what religion, because it can offend many people.
~Jordan Montgomery

[SonicSteve]

In the book "Free As In Freedom", which is a biography of Stallman it explains why. I don't remember his exact reasoning, but it goes pretty far back. If I can dig out my copy of "The Open CD", which has the book on it, I'll look it up. I admit though, the whole "Impeach God" thing is gonna give people another reason not to use GNU/Linux, no matter what religion, because it can offend many people.
~Jordan Montgomery

The open CD has his book on it?
You mean this CD? http://www.theopencd.org/

[montgoej]

Yeah, that's the one. It's also got a book of essays and "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond on it. I haven't read it yet, but I'd like to if I can find the CD.
~Jordan Montgomery

[SonicSteve]

OK so I found the biography on line. http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ look at ch.4
Perhaps I'm missing something (which is possible and even likely) but I still don't see what his "impeach God" viewpoints have to do with the world of software freedom. It seems like a "pet" cause for him that he likes to mix into all areas of life.

excerpt from "free as in freedom" by Richard Stallman (I hope he doesn't mind)

Although the dancing and hacking did little to improve Stallman's social standing, they helped him overcome the feelings of weirdness that had clouded his pre-Harvard life. Instead of lamenting his weird nature, Stallman found ways to celebrate it. In 1977, while attending a science-fiction convention, he came across a woman selling custom-made buttons. Excited, Stallman ordered a button with the words "Impeach God" emblazoned on it.

For Stallman, the "Impeach God" message worked on many levels. An atheist since early childhood, Stallman first saw it as an attempt to set a "second front" in the ongoing debate on religion. "Back then everybody was arguing about God being dead or alive," Stallman recalls. "`Impeach God' approached the subject of God from a completely different viewpoint. If God was so powerful as to create the world and yet do nothing to correct the problems in it, why would we ever want to worship such a God? Wouldn't it be better to put him on trial?"

Although I'm sure we could discuss the merits of his religious views I would rather stick to the world of software. Whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, Atheist or whatever it is part of all our lives.
I myself am a Christian and while I sympathize with his beliefs I don't agree with him. What else is new? People disagreeing over beliefs of God certainly not.
I would like to meet him and get to know him.
I do wish he wouldn't publicize his views so overtly on first glance. I'm sure over 80% of the worlds population "believes" in God at some level. Meaning he will potentially alienate 80% of the world without need.

[montgoej]

I agree. I myself am Christian, but even if I were say even and Atheist, I wouldn't want someone who is a pretty big part of a movement, such as the Free Software movement, doing something that would alienate that many people, or give them the wrong impression of those involved with the movement. It would be as if I were say, the head of the Free Cheese movement, trying to solve world hunger by giving out cheese, and I had a "Kill the Dalai Lama" sign or an "Impeach Muhammad" sticker on.
~Jordan Montgomery

[SonicSteve]

Well I guess we need to accept him warts and all. As for me I'm completely wartless no faults at all!!
At least if I had a dog and you were to ask only him. :)

[SonicSteve]

I agree. I myself am Christian, but even if I were say even and Atheist, I wouldn't want someone who is a pretty big part of a movement, such as the Free Software movement, doing something that would alienate that many people, or give them the wrong impression of those involved with the movement. It would be as if I were say, the head of the Free Cheese movement, trying to solve world hunger by giving out cheese, and I had a "Kill the Dalai Lama" sign or an "Impeach Muhammad" sticker on.
~Jordan Montgomery

Your analogies are like mine, your right except that it's even worse. He isn't just singling out one group of people. God is pretty generic, and is transferable to every religious group, not just Muslims, or Christians or Jews, but everyone who believes in God.

Like I said though, let's not loose our focus. Ultimately his views on God don't matter to the rest of his teaching about Free software. If anything they give us something to talk about.

[JarG0n]

Steve,

Your one of the most open minded people I've not met. The world needs more people like you. The lime helmet just has to go, though. ;)


OK so I found the biography on line. http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ look at ch.4
Perhaps I'm missing something (which is possible and even likely) but I still don't see what his "impeach God" viewpoints have to do with the world of software freedom. It seems like a "pet" cause for him that he likes to mix into all areas of life.

excerpt from "free as in freedom" by Richard Stallman (I hope he doesn't mind)


Although I'm sure we could discuss the merits of his religious views I would rather stick to the world of software. Whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, Atheist or whatever it is part of all our lives.
I myself am a Christian and while I sympathize with his beliefs I don't agree with him. What else is new? People disagreeing over beliefs of God certainly not.
I would like to meet him and get to know him.
I do wish he wouldn't publicize his views so overtly on first glance. I'm sure over 80% of the worlds population "believes" in God at some level. Meaning he will potentially alienate 80% of the world without need.

[Zuph]

As a poster-child for non-militant atheism, I'm proud to be part of a group that doesn't immediately judge a person based on their beliefs, but rather weighs the merits of his or her words and actions. If more people were like this, an "Impeach God" button would never be a PR issue.

It's not in particularly bad taste, just not something a public figure for such a movement should sport. This goes back to most people judging based on beliefs or membership of some organization X (In this case, religion). Studies released have shown that Atheists are the most hated minority in the country. It's a sad time when President George HW Bush can say that Atheists are not citizens and suffer not backlash.

[Koji-Murasame]

As a poster-child for non-militant atheism, I'm proud to be part of a group that doesn't immediately judge a person based on their beliefs, but rather weighs the merits of his or her words and actions. If more people were like this, an "Impeach God" button would never be a PR issue.

It's not in particularly bad taste, just not something a public figure for such a movement should sport. This goes back to most people judging based on beliefs or membership of some organization X (In this case, religion). Studies released have shown that Atheists are the most hated minority in the country. It's a sad time when President George HW Bush can say that Atheists are not citizens and suffer not backlash.

I can see where you are coming from about not making a judgement based on beliefs, but it is a natural human reaction for people to judge people and generalize based on this. It's how we as human beings cope with the wide variety of situations that can occur in our lifetimes and make decisions based on observation. I think that if Mr. Stallman wanted to be judged based on his actions and not on his beliefs then his actions should be given the focus over his beliefs. I think he does an excellent job as a public speaker, but most people are not good objective listeners and will judge him based on his beliefs and what he makes explicitly known.

[Zuph]

I think he does an excellent job as a public speaker, but most people are not good objective listeners and will judge him based on his beliefs and what he makes explicitly known.

Which is my point about most people being so shallow. Even the bible has tried to transcend it's believers beyond such petty trivialities, what with "Judge not, let ye be judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

[JarG0n]

Microsoft again proves it does not respect users privacy.

This update is posted to the initial post.

UPDATE (7/21/07): http://www.abanet.org/journal/ereport/jy13tkjasn.html
Alternate: http://abajd.com/magazine/a_lot_of_room_in_its_view/

A Lot of Room in Its View
Microsoft's Vista stores much more data—and may affect the discovery process
By Jason Krause

Vista—Microsoft’s latest operating system—may prove to be most appropriately named, especially for those seeking evidence of how a computer was used.

[AhronZombi]

thanks for supporting free software and atheists. i recently came out of the closet as an atheist. keep up the movement on both fronts/ the illogical thinking that leads to believing in god could possible damage the development of many things including free software. but thats just my opinion if you want to be illogical we can still be kool

:guitar:

[lisati]

For those who are interested in learning more about the origins of GNU, Linux, and Open Source software, I'd like to recommend these two references. The first is a book by Glyn Moody called "Rebel Code : Inside Linux and the Open Source Revolution". It is copyright 2001, may be out of print, but should be available through your public library.

Picked up a copy at my local library that they were getting rid of. Not bad for $1.