Will mobile devices ever go open?

[Peepsalot]

I've been thinking a lot lately about how screwed up cell phone companies are.

Hardware functionality often crippled by provider.
Devices limited on what sort of additional software can be downloaded/installed. (usually just the ones paid for through the provider, as a monthly subscription charge per software!)
Devices often not transferable across providers. (From what I hear, this is a US specific problem)
No standard charging ports (must buy a different charger for just about every phone)

Basically, the phone companies want to be in complete control over the hardware that we(consumers) purchase and own. This is very different from the computer perspective(and Linux particularly) of the user having basically complete control of what the device does, and what software to run on it. Also the concept of paying per kb of data, or per minute is outrageous IMO. When you compare it again with PCs(cable modems for example) you generally pay a flat rate for some amount of (always on) bandwidth. The ways that phone companies extort money from people are despicable.

I guess I don't know exactly where I'm going with this semi-rant. Just wanted to see how others felt about all this.

[Peepsalot]

Another important thing I neglected to mention would be the prospect of free Wifi/VoIP communications if these devices were not locked down so hard. Of course the phone companies will do everything they can to avoid that.

[troymcdavis]

http://www.openmoko.com/

[DoctorMO]

One of the reasons for not having flat rate fees at the start was that most mobile networks can't handle the number of users they have all downloading things at even 120Kbs; so they decided in order to reduce the demand they would hike the price limiting the service to those that can pay the hefty fee puts less demand on a network not built to take this kind of data load.

In the fututre, who knows maybe we'll all be using some other network that allows a million people to connect to a single cell at 3Mbs each but I can't see the FCC or BC allowing the wide spectrum required for such technical devices.

?Have you noticed that the more people get Wifi cards and home Wifi routers the slower all wifi networks in the area get? thats because they interfere with each other leading to 802.11b/g being so congested in some areas that it's next to useless. if people would/count switch their routers to passive relay everyone in the area could form a mesh network sharing the total bandwidth but this is the modern world we live in and people are stupid and selfish.

[MrHorus]

One of the reasons for not having flat rate fees at the start was that most mobile networks can't handle the number of users they have all downloading things at even 120Kbs;

I'm on t-mobile and I get 1GB of data a month for £7.50.

[MrHorus]

if people would/count switch their routers to passive relay everyone in the area could form a mesh network sharing the total bandwidth but this is the modern world we live in and people are stupid and selfish.

Not to mention security conscious.

There is no way in hell I am opening my router up to anyone outside of my four walls - why would I take that risk?

[Peepsalot]

http://www.openmoko.com/
That is awesome, than you for the link. I can't wait to see these available. As far as I can tell, looks like some are shipping just for testing purposes only at the moment.


I'm on t-mobile and I get 1GB of data a month for £7.50.
From everything I have heard, the general situation for American mobile phone users is much worse than it is in Europe. Don't know why it is that way.

[Tuna-Fish]

I've been thinking a lot lately about how screwed up cell phone companies are.

Hardware functionality often crippled by provider.
Devices limited on what sort of additional software can be downloaded/installed. (usually just the ones paid for through the provider, as a monthly subscription charge per software!)
Devices often not transferable across providers. (From what I hear, this is a US specific problem)
No standard charging ports (must buy a different charger for just about every phone)


Actually, most of that is US specific. Here in Europe we have government agencies whose job is to side with the consumers and keep the big companies in line. They might be slow and bureaucratic, but at the end of the day (or year...) they get the job done.


Also the concept of paying per kb of data, or per minute is outrageous IMO. When you compare it again with PCs(cable modems for example) you generally pay a flat rate for some amount of (always on) bandwidth. The ways that phone companies extort money from people are despicable.

Actually, there is a very good reason for this: spectrum isn't unlimited. Simply put, there is a limit on how much total mobile transfer capacity is available in a given area, making mobile transfer capacity a scarce good, unlike cable modem bandwidth. Now, most of spectrum is currently wasted on archaic analog transmissions (like terrestrial analog tv and radio) which eat way more spectrum than they would if they were transmitted digitally. Should everyone move to digital transmissions we would have massive swaths of spectrum left for better use, like mobile data transfer.

[happy-and-lost]

Another important thing I neglected to mention would be the prospect of free Wifi/VoIP communications if these devices were not locked down so hard. Of course the phone companies will do everything they can to avoid that.

BT have just released a Wifi mobile. Not sure how it works, or how well it works, but I hope it catches on; it's a great idea.

[Peepsalot]

Actually, most of that is US specific. Here in Europe we have government agencies whose job is to side with the consumers and keep the big companies in line.
Yeah unfortunately US lawmaking seems to be completely controlled by whichever lobbyist has the biggest paycheck, and phone companies have deep pockets.

[Spr0k3t]

Just me, I will never get a phone until the cell companies get over themselves. It's about time the phone companies finally made the next jump in the technological bridge. All phone companies need to open up their closed boxes and move on to an open platform and broader span. Back in 94 the executives of sprint stated they could offer a complete flat rate for all of their customers... instead, they chose to keep the rates per minute as people would continue to pay for it. It's a corrupt system...</soapbox>

Oh OH! Lest we not forget about the @F(SF(J cellphone drivers... </livid-rant>

[Peepsalot]

Oh OH! Lest we not forget about the @F(SF(J cellphone drivers... </livid-rant>
I have no idea what this means. :confused:

[phen]

not really a cell phone, but from a cell phone company:

nokia 770
and the newer version:
nokia n800

they run on linux, with plenty of software available:

www.maemo.org

additionally: motorola wanted to use linux for its rokr e2...

[Oki]

Nokia are looking promising here, they do more and more work on a Linux solution. And not to forget Trolltech witch also work with KDE. http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS8030785497.html


I came over this today; http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/01/grundig-b700-crams-linux-in-a-smartphone/

[apfsdsdu]

OpenMoko seems to be the most promising project because they seem to want to keep the kernel and other important parts free of binary blobs. The problem with the Nokia devices is that most of the low-level stuff is closed and proprietary, so when Nokia releases a new device, there won't be any more updates.

[Spr0k3t]

I have no idea what this means. :confused:

Have you ever been cut off by another driver who had their cell phone permatached to their ear while attempting to figure out if the coffee is too hot? Or those who drive maybe 28.4MPH in a 45MPH zone with their cell to their ear. Or what about those who have the horrible booming voice on their cell in a public place almost yelling into the phone because they can't hear the person on the other end? Oh, then there's those who wave their hands while talking... or one of my pet peeves... grocery shopping while on the cell... I mean WTF?! Just the other day I had to push this one guy a few feet so he would move from the front door... simply because he was tuning out the entire world.

Hrumphf... just thinking about cell phones makes my blood boil.

[prizrak]

In the US Verizon has a flat rate for unlimited DL's. It's $60 a month and you get the 3G network to do with as you please. Sprint and Cingular/ATT are doing the same far as I know. Phones aren't locked down by the manufacturer but by the provider

I got a Verizon Motorola E815 (BT capable) and while other networks allow their users to send files to each other over BT, Verizon does not. The only way to get around it is to seem hack the phone.

Actually, most of that is US specific. Here in Europe we have government agencies whose job is to side with the consumers and keep the big companies in line. They might be slow and bureaucratic, but at the end of the day (or year...) they get the job done.

Actually in the US it has more to do with technology than anything else. CDMA phones won't work on GSM networks, GSM phones have to be unlocked to work with other providers but it's not exactly difficult so not much of an issue IMO (also some providers are selling unlocked phones now). The only thing is CDMA-to-CDMA phones not being compatible but I think it has to do with specific implementations rather than companies trying to stop you from using other phones.

What most people don't seem to realize is that cell providers don't make money on phones, in fact alot of times they lose money on them. The money is made from plans so they don't much care what phone you use.

[Peepsalot]

The money is made from plans so they don't much care what phone you use.
They do care about crippling the phones though, making it so incredibly difficult to load your own custom content or applications(requiring seem edits, etc) that most people will just buy the content from them at exorbitant prices.

[prizrak]

They do care about crippling the phones though, making it so incredibly difficult to load your own custom content or applications(requiring seem edits, etc) that most people will just buy the content from them at exorbitant prices.

That's another thing they make money from ;) There is also exclusivity issues. I see your point and I do agree that cell companies aren't exactly all about freedom but lack of interoperability is mostly due to technical issues rather than economical. Seem editing will void your warranty and I highly suspect that even having a complete free and open cell phone, there would still be things you won't be able to do without voiding your warranty.

My general view on the subject of FLOSS'ed embedded systems is that by and large it doesn't much matter what they run. Just about any embedded device can be changed but that would void your warranty so having a FLOSS'ed device that you still can't change without killing your warranty is pretty much useless.