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kevinlyfellow
February 21st, 2007, 11:29 AM
Is Beryl just eyecandy or is it something more important? What about it has proven useful to you?

When I installed it, I thought I would get tired of it quick, but I found out that I didn't. I have found one very useful feature: transparent windows allow me to write or browse the internet while watching movies :-) I have a feeling that I'm going to start using the grouping feature more often (for the Gimp especially).

Spr0k3t
February 21st, 2007, 11:55 AM
I've been enjoying Beryl quite a bit. From locating all windows open to a single viewport to grouping windows, to compositing. I've got all the eye-candy turned off with the exception of the cube. The Cube may not look like anything but eye-candy, but with the cube I can see what desktop has what programs on what viewport in an instant. Working with video, I can quickly see the progress in the background if I need it all thanks to the transparancy.

aeiah
February 21st, 2007, 12:14 PM
although a lot of it is just a bit of fun and pure eyecandy there are some useful bits, such as the cube and, more importantly to me, the dragging of windows to other desktops, and the switching from desktops 1 - 4. the visual way it does this somehow makes it clearer than the instant change of non-beryl/compiz gnome or kde etc.

the transparencies have some use, although this is mostly restricted to fading out my firefox download window so i can keep an eye on it without it getting in the way of what im reading, or entering stuff in the terminal whilst reading a tutorial behind it

mips
February 21st, 2007, 12:18 PM
Useless & annoying to me.

manmower
February 21st, 2007, 12:26 PM
I'd say potentially useful, but at this point, useless. Sure you can turn off a lot off the eyecandy but even then it slows down simple operations such as scrolling and resizing windows far too much. I like speed and 2D is still faster on my hardware. To use a buzzword, I am much more "productive" without it. The only features I would want from it are the drop shadows and true terminal transparency (and I can see some use for the desktop wall) but even those impact performance way too much to be of use to me in their current state.

Mr.Auer
February 21st, 2007, 12:50 PM
Ive been using Compiz since the first alpha versions, over a year ago. Back then I had plenty of problems, and had to run XGL to get it working since AIGLX wasnt supported on Nvidia cards back then. But I still liked it, and used it. In the beginning it was mostly the WOW factor, but nowadays, im so used to it that i hate it when I have to use some computer with XP or Linux without compositing ;)

Now Im running latest Beryl (0.1.999999beta something :p) and latest Nvidia beta drivers with support for AIGLX, so my machine is no longer taking a performance hit when using it, as was the case with XGL (a memory and CPU hog!). Also no more probs running 3d accelerated games etc, no more running them in nested x windows with normal x-server as was the case with XGL.

Also, Beryl is a lot more stable now, I havent had any Beryl-related crashes in a while. Some visual artefacts with some plugins sometimes, not too bad, and I cant say if these are due to Nvidia drivers or Beryl.

I mostly use the Cube, for switching between desktops, mostly using mouse wheel over desktop, the quickest way ... Before Beryl I didnt use them so much, now its both easy and good looking switching between them. Now all my workspaces are populated, one has browser and irc in it, other one has music player and file browser, third one has 4 terminals open, fourth one has a word processor and gimp etc..Also use transparency somewhat, trailfocus on all the time, I really like that inactive windows kinda fade into the background.

But the most, MOST important one for me is the input enabled zoom ! I dont know how i ever got along without it...Now i can zoom anywhere, and still be able to use the mouse and type! Its great for web surfing, photo editing, watching tiny videos on Youtube etc. And quick to use.

Also I use the expose like function somewhat, and somewhat use Alttab to switch. The plugin architecture is great since I just turn off the plugin i dont use, that simple. And I get plenty of options for configuring the pluigns I use to work the way I like em. Also I can save some screen space using the window management of Beryl, since i can remove all those pesky window lists etc. and have only one small button that pops up a window list if I should need it for some reason.

IMHO, Beryl (and Compiz) have come a long way already, having been a user since the very beginning, and gotten lots more usable. At present there are 3-6 plugins I mostly use, but I bet with time we will have more innovative and useful features. Ive never been into minimal desktops for minimalitys sake, I do like clean interfaces, but with plenty of eyecandy, as long as it doesnt interfere with my work. Beryl does this quite well for me at present.

Mr.Auer
February 21st, 2007, 12:52 PM
PS. I think many people who complain about Beryl slowing down their comps must be using XGL still, as that DID take a LOT of resources, especially with video etc. I cannot see any differnece in speed when using AIGLX and Beryl vs. only Gnome? Could this be the case?

bigyoy
February 21st, 2007, 12:59 PM
Having only just switched to Linux I can' talk for the long term, but my favorite feature of Beryl has to be the switcher/scale effect when you move your mouse to the top right of the desktop. Having all your windows scaled makes it easier to switch between them, which is something I do a lot.

Is it just me or does it seem to behave slightly differently with firefox windows?

Kindred
February 21st, 2007, 01:14 PM
PS. I think many people who complain about Beryl slowing down their comps must be using XGL still, as that DID take a LOT of resources, especially with video etc. I cannot see any differnece in speed when using AIGLX and Beryl vs. only Gnome? Could this be the case?

I use AIGLX but find that for instance rotating the cube when there are > 8 windows on a screen will cause it to chug a bit, and maximizing windows does the same. I do use a fairly high resolution 1920x1440 which I imagine doesn't help, though I do have modern hardware.

Anyway I think much of it is really quite useful, but I can't put up with the performance hit - I think many people would and do.

manmower
February 21st, 2007, 01:19 PM
PS. I think many people who complain about Beryl slowing down their comps must be using XGL still, as that DID take a LOT of resources, especially with video etc. I cannot see any difference in speed when using AIGLX and Beryl vs. only Gnome? Could this be the case?

I'm using nVidia's latest drivers so neither XGL nor AIGLX.

Resurrection
February 21st, 2007, 01:29 PM
I haven't noticed a peformance hit, which was the most impressive fact to me. I tried Beryl on a whim since I had not used any 3d compositing manager like it or Compiz before. On the machine I am running it, I have a 1.2 Celeron with only 512MB of RAM. I have an Nvidia GeForce 5500FX 256MB card running it (which isn't even close to top of the line). Despite this somewhat outdated hardware, I can run Beryl with AIGLX with just about everything enabled.

I like the Cube, especially with the ability to set the wallpaper in the "sphere" around it. I think it is useful, but I wouldn't say I can't live without it.

Window transparency is awesome, especially since its so customizable. This is actually exceptionally useful, and really causes me to not need multiple desktops and the cube much. I just don't think transparency has been done right before Beryl.

Wobbly windows-not useful. Windows that "cling" at the corners to the desktop (not sure what that feature is called) - not useful.

But that's why I think Beryl is so useful, you can dial it up or down and tweak just about everything to your needs. You get to decide whether you want minimal effect <----> super eye candy or any level in between. And to still be Beta, its pretty solid.

hoagie
February 21st, 2007, 01:37 PM
It's useful, the minimize effects are so nice, and the chagning between open applications with alt-tab is great. Also the expose feature is nice especially when you have lots of open applications open.

hizaguchi
March 14th, 2007, 03:33 PM
It's very useful for me. The combination of Desktop Wall and Scale lets me spread out my windows to reduce clutter but still have easy and intuitive access to everything I'm doing, and the drop shadows make it easier to tell where one window ends and the other begins. Plus there's the stress relief factor of zooming around from desktop to desktop... it's oddly relaxing.

purdy hate machine
March 14th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Useless. For looks E17 wins me over every time.

Adamant1988
March 14th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I find certain functions VERY useful. The inverting option helps me read large texts easier with less strain on my eyes (they are sensitive) and the showcase options help me find windows now matter what desktop I have them on.

ShadowVlican
March 14th, 2007, 08:06 PM
yes, because i love eye-candy and a GPU accelerated GUI

MedivhX
March 14th, 2007, 08:12 PM
Humm... beryl is just a fancy eyecandy in fact it really slows up my working session... I was very into it when I first installed, but then I realised that it's totaly unefficient...

kevinlyfellow
March 16th, 2007, 07:07 AM
After giving beryl plenty of time to grow on me, I have found out whats useful and whats not. I haven't found the "expo" like feature to be too useful, but I have found the "show desktop" feature very useful. I have also found that the zoom accessibility feature surprisingly helpful. By far the best feature is the one that lets you change the opacity of windows. This greatly aids in accessing more than one document at the same time with limited desktop real-estate.

I have also occasionally tried working on a 2d desktop as well. I used to be very minimalistic with interfaces and I remember why, it is simply faster. I have also noticed how much more natural wobbly windows feel, which surprises me. Beryl definitely has its usefulness, but there is a lot that's just eye candy. Hopefully as the project develops people will come up with great ideas to help utilize the 3d desktop.

Quillz
March 16th, 2007, 07:10 AM
A lot of Beryl's features are just eye candy, but its Alt+Tab replacement and Expose clone are genuinely useful.

FoolsGold
March 16th, 2007, 07:14 AM
Some of it is eye candy (perfect example - drawing water on your desktop)

Some of it has a useful purpose (transparent cube, allows me to see the progress of a task running in another workspace without even having to flip the cube)

Some of it can be used to put those who praise Aero as being "totally cool" in their place. :)

RAV TUX
March 16th, 2007, 07:16 AM
Is Beryl just eyecandy or is it something more important? What about it has proven useful to you?

When I installed it, I thought I would get tired of it quick, but I found out that I didn't. I have found one very useful feature: transparent windows allow me to write or browse the internet while watching movies :-) I have a feeling that I'm going to start using the grouping feature more often (for the Gimp especially).

This "Pole" is almost as interesting as this one:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9964/277080zg8.jpg


(reference: Pole: Beryl Useful? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=366622) )

RAV TUX
March 16th, 2007, 07:21 AM
Humm... beryl is just a fancy eyecandy in fact it really slows up my working session... I was very into it when I first installed, but then I realised that it's totaly unefficient...
If you are using Gnome, KDE, or XFCE,....this is all just fancy eye candy.

Beryl is just a logical extension of the base eye candy of Gnome and KDE.

If you not using Fluxbox then you can't really speak of inefficient eye candy.:)

graabein
March 16th, 2007, 08:38 AM
I actually like the wobbly windows. I think they make the windows stand out more (wobbly dropdown menus are another thing). Also good are the minimize-maximize animation and the rotating desktop cube. Transparency is not so important I think, but nice to have if you need it on a particular window.

It's still early in the development so right now we have a lot of effects just to show what can be done. What should end up as the default is a way off I think, as a lot of the effects are distracting, but no doubt it will come.

:KS :KS :KS :KS :KS



Forgot to mention that I like the alt+tab plus the window shadows as well. I think Beryl is a great initiative for desktop GNU/Linux!

FyreBrand
March 16th, 2007, 09:07 AM
The scale and improved alt-tab have been useful to me. Most of it's eye candy, but that's not a bad thing. Why should my DE be boring? I don't run it often because I'm usually using a program I want to remain stable and beryl isn't always stable.

Another important part of the compositing managers is that they are exploring new ways for people to think about their desktops. There is BumpTop (http://bumptop.com/) and others that are exploring desktop usability. As far as we can spend time testing that and feeding back it's not a waste in my opinion.

kevinlyfellow
March 16th, 2007, 09:32 AM
There is BumpTop (http://bumptop.com/) and others that are exploring desktop usability. As far as we can spend time testing that and feeding back it's not a waste in my opinion.

That looks fun!!! I agree, we need to be at the forefront of development, and that is what beryl is. Whether or not it fails or succeeds does not matter, what matters is that we find out for sure what the best experience a user can have and implement it.

Lord Illidan
March 16th, 2007, 09:59 AM
I find Expose very useful for showcasing picture thumbnails..
And it's useful for showing off.

Useful on a daily basis? Well, not that much..but if it was faster, or I had a faster computer, probably yes.

jdong
March 16th, 2007, 03:27 PM
I strongly believe in Beryl's capabilities as a usability tool. During the 2 weeks that I lost beryl (due to Feisty Xgl packaging issues, that are now resolved), I found myself constantly fumbling for the right window, not being able to choose it from a alt+tab list of 20+ windows, messing with color schemes that burn my eyes, and trying to zoom at some small text without realizing Beryl's not there.


Furthermore, I'd like to argue that the significance of fluid, organic-feeling computing experience is way underrated by Beryl haters. A little bit of Beryl transitioning makes computing so much more enjoyable, and that alone will boost productivity.

However, where you're gonna lose productivity with beryl are:
(1) Playing with absurd effect settings, like the exploding windows, or frictionless wobble (flinging windows across desktops), and so on.
(2) Bragging about Beryl and showing off effects to everyone, helping them set up Beryl, and so on.


So, your mileage may vary, but bottom line I do not believe Beryl should be dismissed as "just eye candy".

FyreBrand
March 16th, 2007, 08:07 PM
<snip>
Furthermore, I'd like to argue that the significance of fluid, organic-feeling computing experience is way underrated by Beryl haters. A little bit of Beryl transitioning makes computing so much more enjoyable, and that alone will boost productivity.
<snip>
.Having the desktop interface be a fluid experience is the most attractive part of that tool for me.

Part of the resistance is that we're used to doing things how we like to do them. The more I explore the more I find things that help me do what I need to. That's why the alt-tab and the scale tool work well for me. I tend to get in a hurry and clutter one desktop over another. Then I can't find the windows I'm looking for.

What makes Beryl great for me is the ability to have more control over my interface. I'll be glad when some stability issues are worked through. Also it takes a bit of configuring shortcuts because some of Beryl's shortcuts override the defaults for other applications so I must rearrange things. That's not a big issue, just a bit of time and patience.

Edit:
I got to thinking that maybe people could also post what features or plugins they find helpful, where they're located in the Beryl Settings Manager and what specific values they changed to make the feature more useful or productive. A reason why this feature or setting is useful would be nice too. ((if it's too far off topic I can search for a more relevant topic or make a new one))

Choad
March 16th, 2007, 09:35 PM
desktop wall > cube

just found it... its awesome.

23meg
March 16th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Are things either inherently useful or useless, or are they as useful as we as their users can make them? Is usefulness an immanent quality, or does it come to being in utilization?

FyreBrand
March 16th, 2007, 10:44 PM
I really think it's in what we do with it. What I like about this is that it opens up possibilities. A feature might be intended for productivity such as the scale feature. It's not a lot about flashines., Other features might have been intended for just gloss but were used to do something that makes getting things done easier.

For example the alt-tab feature. It's mostly about gloss since there is already an alt tab feature implemented. But how this is implemented adds to the base functionality. Having the tiled preview and the background application switching is nice.

Also just enjoying the look at feel of your environment might add to your productivity. Now it seems whenever I log into a Windows desktop I feel smothered. The look is the same and not very configurable especially in comparison. It isn't a fun system to look at or use. I log into because I absolutely must and then I get out of as quickly as possible. It's stifling to me.

The possibility to explore the desktop and system make it exciting to me. It's not the end all, but just another piece in why I love to use Linux, especially (K)Ubuntu Linux.

diskotek
March 16th, 2007, 10:48 PM
i think it's useful for attracting many users to windows. and of course thanks to youtube.. here is a bunch of reactions i heard... but if you are asking me it's eating rams/cpu's :D hehe but it's a really best eyecandy!

-hey what's that, i want it too..
-wow is that windows vista?
-hey this is so cool, what's name of the theme??

jdong
March 16th, 2007, 11:15 PM
i think it's useful for attracting many users to windows. and of course thanks to youtube.. here is a bunch of reactions i heard... but if you are asking me it's eating rams/cpu's :D hehe but it's a really best eyecandy!

-hey what's that, i want it too..
-wow is that windows vista?
-hey this is so cool, what's name of the theme??

Compiz on my laptop actually increases my battery life and reduces CPU usage by offloading window manipulating to the GPU. Even with all the effects turned on, I still come out ahead.

Beryl, roughly the same can be said by default but some features like transparent cube really eat CPU.