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View Full Version : Recent Mac advert in the UK: 14,000 viruses for PC



foxy123
February 16th, 2007, 11:34 AM
I think many of you saw this advert and also a commercial on Apple website. It claims that there were 14,000 viruses designed for PC last year, while zero for Mac. I think it is a false calim as viruses are designed not for PCs but for operating systems (MS Windows being a notorious example). One can install any free Linux distribution and has the same effect as Mac in this regard. I have complained to the UK ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) about it. Am not sure if I am completely right, but I think that Apple is trying to make people to buy their computers based on a false and misleading claim.

ziadoz
February 16th, 2007, 11:42 AM
Don't like Apples advertising techniques myself. But I bet if they'd said the PC guy was Windows they'd have a lawsuit so far up their... Anyway I think they should try to sell their products on their merits, not the competitors downfalls.

Tomosaur
February 16th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Interestingly, IBM first trademarked the term PC, in competition with Apple (who had used it previously, but hadn't trademarked it). A judge later overturned the trademark though, so now anyone can use it - but it's commonly held to be synonymous with 'IBM-PC Compatible', so there's still a little of the past there :P

I think Microsoft also tried to trademark the term, but were unsuccessful, although I have no sources about that.

foxy123
February 16th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Don't like Apples advertising techniques myself. But I bet if they'd said the PC guy was Windows they'd have a lawsuit so far up their... Anyway I think they should try to sell their products on their merits, not the competitors downfalls.

if they cannot name Microsoft Windows as a primarily target for all virus authors, they should not use this claim at all.

handylinux
February 16th, 2007, 03:44 PM
Don't like Apples advertising techniques myself. But I bet if they'd said the PC guy was Windows they'd have a lawsuit so far up their... Anyway I think they should try to sell their products on their merits, not the competitors downfalls.
As an 18-year Mac (only) user -- recently becoming interested in Linux, which is why I'm here -- I completely agree: I dislike the current Apple commercials, which I find childish and stupid. The original 1984 Macintosh ad was very clever, but unfortunately set a tone that has persisted since in Apple's advertising, of bashing the competition rather than simply, quietly presenting Apple's products -- which I believe any intelligent person will see are superior.

And should Apple try to market to non-intelligent people? No, I don't think so. BMW -- whose market share Steve Jobs famously compared to Apple's -- and Mercedes Benz know who their market are, and pitch to them. A 10% market share would be plenty for Apple. In my view, Linux, in all its many iterations, is the ideal candidate to take over from Micro$oft as the world's dominant OS -- and then let M$ show they can build a good Unix-based OS.

This thread raises an important point I hadn't thought of before, that there's an important distinction between "PC" and Windows, because Linux runs on PCs, but the common criticisms of Windows (including others pushed by the Apple campaign, not just the number of viruses) don't apply to Linux.

You're probably right, though, that Apple uses the nomenclature "PC" instead of "Windows" to avoid trouble.

Anyway, here's one committed, long-time Mac user who wishes Apple would drop the current ad campaign and switch to advertising whose character equals the quality of its products.

prizrak
February 16th, 2007, 07:27 PM
As an 18-year Mac (only) user -- recently becoming interested in Linux, which is why I'm here -- I completely agree: I dislike the current Apple commercials, which I find childish and stupid. The original 1984 Macintosh ad was very clever, but unfortunately set a tone that has persisted since in Apple's advertising, of bashing the competition rather than simply, quietly presenting Apple's products -- which I believe any intelligent person will see are superior.

And should Apple try to market to non-intelligent people? No, I don't think so. BMW -- whose market share Steve Jobs famously compared to Apple's -- and Mercedes Benz know who their market are, and pitch to them. A 10% market share would be plenty for Apple. In my view, Linux, in all its many iterations, is the ideal candidate to take over from Micro$oft as the world's dominant OS -- and then let M$ show they can build a good Unix-based OS.

This thread raises an important point I hadn't thought of before, that there's an important distinction between "PC" and Windows, because Linux runs on PCs, but the common criticisms of Windows (including others pushed by the Apple campaign, not just the number of viruses) don't apply to Linux.

You're probably right, though, that Apple uses the nomenclature "PC" instead of "Windows" to avoid trouble.

Anyway, here's one committed, long-time Mac user who wishes Apple would drop the current ad campaign and switch to advertising whose character equals the quality of its products.
Wonder if you are aware of how elitist you sound ;)

On the topic of Apple commercials though, it could be labeled as false advertisement as Apple hardware is now the exact same as any other "PC" so a hardware targeting virus would still work. (very few of them but they do exist and are 100% portable) On the other hand Apple doesn't want to include Windows into it not because of law suit issues. They couldn't be sued for saying that last year 14,000 viruses were created for Windows if it's true. Alternatively they could use "leading operating system" but they sell hardware. If Apple said that 14,000 viruses were developed for an OS it would simply suggest that Windows sux and you need to get a different OS. Saying that those viruses were made for PC suggest you need a whole new computer.

It's a very subtle difference but it's something that is rarely overlooked by marketing firms.

Tomosaur
February 16th, 2007, 07:31 PM
Wonder if you are aware of how elitist you sound ;)

I don't think he/she sounds elitist at all :/

~LoKe
February 16th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Isn't a Mac still a PC (Personal Computer)? So aren't they technically insulting themselves? o_O

floke
February 16th, 2007, 07:38 PM
The surprising thing about this is that it is only 14,000.
The lkast time I booted into my XP (defragging to make even more room for Linux :) ), the annoying Symantec pop up, telling me that my subscription was about 1,000 years out of date (like I'm gonna get that again!) also told me that it had been protecting me against something like 3 million viruses (and I never exaggerate). Still, it was a lot more than 14,000. Ok, I know this figure was for viruses created last year, but stil...it seems a bit low to me.

floke
February 16th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I don't think he/she sounds elitist at all :/

What about the 'Apple shouldn't market themselves to non-intelligent people'?
Some people might say they already do. If you got a Mac, you bought the PR.

(I'm joking)

(Well not completely, but I am)

(...or am I?)

Tomosaur
February 16th, 2007, 07:46 PM
What about the 'Apple shouldn't market themselves to non-intelligent people'?
Some people might say they already do. If you got a Mac, you bought the PR.

(I'm joking)

(Well not completely, but I am)

(...or am I?)

It's not elitist. If anything - Apple is, because it immediately looks as though they regard their potential customers as unintelligent. Handylinux said "Should they (Apple) market to non-intelligent people?". This is a statement about the adverts, not potential Apple customers.

muguwmp67
February 16th, 2007, 08:01 PM
As an 18-year Mac (only) user -- recently becoming interested in Linux, which is why I'm here -- I completely agree: I dislike the current Apple commercials, which I find childish and stupid. The original 1984 Macintosh ad was very clever, but unfortunately set a tone that has persisted since in Apple's advertising, of bashing the competition rather than simply, quietly presenting Apple's products -- which I believe any intelligent person will see are superior.


Wow...Its hard to believe that 23 years have passed since Apple's superbowl ad.

I do not think that this ad set a tone for 'OS bashing'. Windows didn't exist at the time, we had DOS. Microsoft was an important company, but not all-powerful like they are today.

The 1984 ad was for hardware, most people did not associate the Mac with an operating system at the time. Most people didn't know what an operating system was. The ad was anti-establishment, and a reaction to the stereotype of the blue suit, white shirt, black wing tipped IBM user.

Early mac evangelists, like Guy Kawasaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Kawasaki) promoted the Mac by demonstrating how its ease-of-use enhanced creativity. It didn't have to bash DOS, because most people hated it anyway.

I think 'OS bashing' is too harsh a term to use towards Apple's current marketing campaign. Yes, they do poke fun at windows shortcomings, but they are still much more about creativity and self-expression versus 'following the herd'.

foxy123
February 16th, 2007, 09:11 PM
The surprising thing about this is that it is only 14,000.
The lkast time I booted into my XP (defragging to make even more room for Linux :) ), the annoying Symantec pop up, telling me that my subscription was about 1,000 years out of date (like I'm gonna get that again!) also told me that it had been protecting me against something like 3 million viruses (and I never exaggerate). Still, it was a lot more than 14,000. Ok, I know this figure was for viruses created last year, but stil...it seems a bit low to me.

I am sorry, it is 114,000 according to the ad. I have overlooked a 1.

adam.tropics
February 16th, 2007, 09:32 PM
This topic has been discussed quite a lot on the net of late. Even a couple Mac sites are not to keen on the direction Apple have taken with recent ad campaigns. Personally I really don't see the problem. It's an ad. We all know it's an ad, and so we all know it's gonna be biased and maybe even a little misleading. Legal or not, that's just the nature of advertising. Perhaps Apple should have thrown in the 'Linux Guy' and had him playing Monopoly with the Mac guy, while the PC guy died in the corner!

The problem I have is the general inability of the Linux community to get together and come up with consistent advertising of Linux as a whole. It's left to individual distros, which let's face it, are just too small, as individuals, to compete and make any significant dent.

prizrak
February 16th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I don't think he/she sounds elitist at all :/
How about the part where Apple should stay at 10% and Linux should be for the "masses".

ssam
February 16th, 2007, 09:33 PM
Isn't a Mac still a PC (Personal Computer)? So aren't they technically insulting themselves? o_O

the figures are still right.

14,000 (or 3 million (does not make much difference)) for any type of personal computer.
0 for mac os x.

whether its 14000 or 3 million probably depends how you count. do you can variants of a virus? i have seen windows security programs flag cookies as threats. and some people spend far to much time distinguishing between worms and virus (not to mention arguing over plurals).

Tomosaur
February 16th, 2007, 10:37 PM
How about the part where Apple should stay at 10% and Linux should be for the "masses".

I don't see how that's 'elitist'.

handylinux
February 16th, 2007, 11:31 PM
Wonder if you are aware of how elitist you sound


How about the part where Apple should stay at 10% and Linux should be for the "masses".

Funny how some folks always seem to be looking for reasons to take offense.

As I said, I've been a Mac user since 1988, when I got my first computer, a Mac Plus. I've made my living doing Mac support since ca. 1994; I've dismantled and repaired hundreds of Macs (mostly portables), and installed/restored/repaired Mac OS software on hundreds more. In recent years, partly due to chronic illness preventing my doing much else, I've spent nearly all my waking hours in front of my Macs (currently a 17" MacBook Pro).

I've never used DOS or Windows, never had any interest. Not only do I find Windows viscerally repellant, I think it's bad for everyone that one giant, soulless corporation (M$) wields so much overwhelming power in the computer world. (Even bad for Bill Gates; it's not healthy for anyone to be that rich.) For the same reason, I wouldn't want to see Apple take M$'s place. Apple's already arrogant enough. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I've recently become interested in Linux because I like the idea of OSS as a basis for computer technology. I would like to see Linux (or something similar; Linux is obviously the most likely candidate) take over as the world standard, so that -- as with the internal combustion engine -- what's become a cornerstone of modern civilization would be in essence owned by no one, available for everyone to use. This would be good for Apple as well, since the present Mac OS is based on the same robust, stable Unix foundation as Linux. Then, as I said, Microsoft would be forced to compete on a playing field that is open to everyone. A healthy ecosystem is diverse.

I would be happy to see (some form of) Linux become as highly-developed, polished, sophisticated, easy to use and maintain as Mac OS X; then I would probably switch to Linux for my primary OS. At present, though, that's far from the case. However, it seems clear that most people, i.e. "the masses", don't really need -- or, apparently, want -- the level of quality that Mac OS offers. For "the masses", then, Linux would seem to be a good alternative to Windows, and that's what I hope to see it become. Clearly Linux doesn't lack for power, but for the ordinary, non-techie user, it's still too hard to set up, configure and maintain.

Ubuntu seems to be the first serious effort to cross that gap, but -- judging from these forums, where people come to find solutions and the solutions seem mostly to be long pages of command-line code that only techies can understand -- it still has a long way to go. (As I said, I've worked on hundreds of Macs, and solved a lot of serious problems, but have never learned how to work in command-line code. I've simply never had to, and don't particularly care to. I do enjoy linguistic studies, but prefer to spend my energy on Sanskrit, Pali and Tibetan.)

I guess it's true that in many areas of my life, I don't follow the herd. For instance, I eat only organically-grown food. If that's "elitist," well, so be it. I look for the best because that's what interests me, not because I want to put other people down.

Apple's ads, however, put people down, which is not only offensive, but stupid. And unnecessary, in my view, because (in my view) Apple's products are already superior. All Apple needs to do is show the world what they have to offer, and those who want it will buy it. Which, given the usual bell-curve of consciousness, is not likely to be more than about 10% anyway. But that's plenty to have a successful business -- as Apple has already proven.

P.S.: Well, I see I've now been credited with "5 cups of Ubuntu", which appears, from the graphics, to be equated somehow with coffee beans? That's amusing, given that I quit drinking coffee in 1966, when I realized I didn't like what it did to me (now that's the world's *real* drug problem). I don't know if I really qualify as an "Ubuntu 6.10 Edgy User", though I have installed it for dual-booting on an iBook and spend time occasionally with it (right now, though, I'm writing this on my MacBook Pro). This weekend I'll be picking up a couple of ca. 3-year-old PC laptops from some friends, on which I intend to install Ubuntu (and perhaps some other Linux distros), in hopes of eventually learning enough to help Windows-weary PC-owning friends (who, for whatever reason, don't want / don't need to move to the Mac) escape from Microserfdom.

curuxz
February 17th, 2007, 01:53 AM
Personaly I think the solution is simple and from a marketing point of view something linux users should have done a long time ago...

PPC is Mac, or rather was dont really know if the intel macs count, but the point remains they have their own platform

PC is generaly considered to be an IMB-PC Compatible which has basicaly been hi-jacked to be a windows pc

I disagree that linux runs on a PC, the reason being there is a multitude of 'win-hardware' esp printers and communication devices. I think that there should be some new phrase made up, since Apples are now PC's but slight variations in compatible hardware, should we not have.


Apple/PPC = Apple
PC = Windows
LS or LPS = Linux System or Linux Power/Powered System or even use Nix Powered System (NPS)

Lets face it PPC is just an advertising gimmic now, and PC is always going to have the conitations of windows, so lets start telling people we dont have PC's we have LS's etc you get the idea.

If calling mozilla firefox can make it a revolution then maybe something equaly simple and stupid would work :)

Serious idea...

Polygon
February 17th, 2007, 04:20 AM
in the business world, people play rough. Apple is simply using the fact that windows has (and is more prone) to viruses then mac os X (at this current point in time).

Its also widespread that people are complaining about all of this crap due to the massive spyware and virus problems that plagued XP. They are also using this to their advanatge

and finally, the one about upgrading to vista , they are true in that aspect as well. Im a gamer and the windows vista advisor says my video card sucks too much to run vista very well... so the "mac" guy is correct about upgrading your computer. Not to mention that mac os x can and does run on such old computers... i saw mac os x running on the old style, translucent plastic powerbooks just today in my school.

microsoft is getting some bad publicity and is have other various problems, and apple is simply standing back and taking advantage of it all. Smart move in my opinion.

foxy123
February 17th, 2007, 02:21 PM
This topic has been discussed quite a lot on the net of late. Even a couple Mac sites are not to keen on the direction Apple have taken with recent ad campaigns. Personally I really don't see the problem. It's an ad. We all know it's an ad, and so we all know it's gonna be biased and maybe even a little misleading. Legal or not, that's just the nature of advertising. Perhaps Apple should have thrown in the 'Linux Guy' and had him playing Monopoly with the Mac guy, while the PC guy died in the corner!

The problem I have is the general inability of the Linux community to get together and come up with consistent advertising of Linux as a whole. It's left to individual distros, which let's face it, are just too small, as individuals, to compete and make any significant dent.

it is not true. the nature of advertising is not to provide false information. it is always bias but if it is misleading people should take legal actions. i urge those in the uk who think that this particular advert is misleading complain to asa http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/

prizrak
February 17th, 2007, 05:14 PM
handylinux,
That was a very long and well thought out post. I wasn't really looking for a reason to be insulted (nor was I actually insulted just stated what I saw). Your original post did seem to be on the elitist side but the second one made your position alot more clear and I am glad to see an Apple person actually realizing that Apple will be just as bad as MS if they are given the chance.