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View Full Version : Warner Music rejects Steve Jobs' DRM plea



Phatfiddler
February 9th, 2007, 05:39 AM
Original News Post (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6344929.stm)

"Warner Music has rejected a suggestion from Apple boss Steve Jobs that record companies should remove copy protection software from digital music downloads."

Your opinions on this?

Polygon
February 9th, 2007, 05:48 AM
of course. its to be expected. they want to make as much money as they can.

thats why you dont support this and support the best anti drim solution: the CD =P

Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 05:50 AM
Shocker. DRM is going to happen, but all that's going to do is spark yet another underground movement to pirate music, and will mark a rise in DRM free music from other sources.

Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 05:51 AM
of course. its to be expected. they want to make as much money as they can.

thats why you dont support this and support the best anti drim solution: the CD =P

Unless Sony has been anywhere near that CD. I refuse to purchase Sony products since that rootkit fiasco.

Polygon
February 9th, 2007, 05:54 AM
well obviously the rootkit is designed for windows, so even if it did have a rootkit, it would do nothing on a linux/unix/mac machine

and not to mention you would have to give your password to install anything to anywhere besides your home folder

and im not an expert on linux security, but is the rootkit thing that sony did even possible on linux? like could it install something to your home folder and run it every so often so it tells sony what your listening to? Im not sure if there is something like "autoplay" on windows that automatically executes a file whenever the cd is put in the drive, im guessing not.

Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 05:58 AM
well obviously the rootkit is designed for windows, so even if it did have a rootkit, it would do nothing on a linux/unix/mac machine

and not to mention you would have to give your password to install anything to anywhere besides your home folder

and im not an expert on linux security, but is the rootkit thing that sony did even possible on linux? like could it install something to your home folder and run it every so often so it tells sony what your listening to? Im not sure if there is something like "autoplay" on windows that automatically executes a file whenever the cd is put in the drive, im guessing not.

I am on a Windows laptop, and I am boycotting Sony. Everyone else can do what they please.

Polygon
February 9th, 2007, 06:08 AM
well if your running a windows laptop, that would be a good idea to boycott sony (cds at least) =P

Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 06:17 AM
well if your running a windows laptop, that would be a good idea to boycott sony (cds at least) =P

I'm boycotting everything from them that I can. My opinion is that if they feel the need, they're legally allowed to protect the music they sold me, but when they do something like that WITHOUT MY PERMISSION and compromise the security of windows computers everywhere, that's when they've gone too far.

IYY
February 9th, 2007, 06:28 AM
Sooner or later, DRM will be abolished. Music wants to be free, and there's nothing that the RIAA lawyers can do about it in the long run. Their business model is no longer profitable, so their business has to adapt or disappear to obscurity. Their current solution of prolonging their current business practices by changing laws won't last long.

Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 06:36 AM
Sooner or later, DRM will be abolished. Music wants to be free, and there's nothing that the RIAA lawyers can do about it in the long run. Their business model is no longer profitable, so their business has to adapt or disappear to obscurity. Their current solution of prolonging their current business practices by changing laws won't last long.

Eventually DRM will be proven to be a bad idea. People don't like feeling watched, it's not my favorite feeling in the world either. As for business practices, I like to think music is basically going to become "Free advertising". Give the music away for free, but sell something extra related to it that fans will just love.

Sunnz
February 9th, 2007, 06:42 AM
Sooner or later, DRM will be abolished. Music wants to be free, and there's nothing that the RIAA lawyers can do about it in the long run. Their business model is no longer profitable, so their business has to adapt or disappear to obscurity. Their current solution of prolonging their current business practices by changing laws won't last long.
That's right, and that's actually the real evil side of Jobs that many people haven't realised yet: Jobs is cleverly positioning himself to take credit for the death of DRM.

Let's look at the newyork times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/23/technology/23music.html?ex=1327208400&en=bf7173ca00417250&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

There has already been thousands of songs legally sold by sites like emusic, DRM-Free, but is sold in Apples iTune with DRM.

However, taking credit or not, this is nevertheless a good thing. We all don't like DRMs, and one more CEO publicly against them certainly helps.

aspro
February 9th, 2007, 09:04 AM
...Their business model is no longer profitable...

Is it really not profitable? I thought the music industry was quite profitable, but if it isn't it makes their desperation to lock down everything a little more understandable if not anymore digestible.

eMusic+independents for the win!

3rdalbum
February 9th, 2007, 02:17 PM
Steve Jobs is extremely nervous that, if DRM continues, he'll be faced with a decision:

1. Have Mac users unable to play commercial high definition video
2. Implement DRM similar to Windows Vista's (encrypted video paths and all that), to please the studios and get the deals.

Both things would be extremely harmful to Mac OS X's adoption and use.

Steve Jobs isn't really a good guy; he's just realised that DRM is going to be harmful to him.

By the way, I'm not scared of DRM'ed CDs. I bought one the other day, where it tries to get CD-ROM drives to stutter while playing it. I bypassed the DRM by putting the disc into my other optical drive lol!

mykalreborn
February 9th, 2007, 02:31 PM
drm or not drm, it's still all about the money. the problem, at least for me is that people are starting to listen to too many mp3s and get used with the bad sound mp3s have. i mean, it doesn't compare to wav or an audio cd. i feel it's a pitty. plus the thrill of buying a brand new cd and checking out the cd case is gone. the appreciation for an artist is also gone. because now everyone has thousands of songs in their computer or what-ever, people are missing the real point: to listen to the artist, not to get more and more songs of the artist.

Sunnz
February 9th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Has anyone read the Cost Analysis of Windows Vista (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html)?

In order to fully implement the DRM as specified in Vista, data needs to be encrypted and decrypted again and again and again, etc. in the devices in the hardware, to the motherboard, to the cpu, to the kernel in the OS, to the application program and finally back to the motherboard then to the video output card then to the monitor.

In other words, it is a VERY cpu-intensive task.

And all the encryption can be broken easily too.

So what if Apple becomes DRM-free? It could mean the Macs appears to be a lot more powerful than Wintels, since it doesn't need to do the DRM tasks. And that's without losing much on Apple's side, DRM isn't going to stop any piracy anyway. And Apple would definitely make its fan very happy who will go brag about how Apple stopped DRM when it is dying away anyway.

It could be a good thing. If MS sticks with DRM and while the rest of the world (Apple/Linux) stays DRM-free, MS is gotta to start losing market share.

Sunnz
February 9th, 2007, 02:38 PM
drm or not drm, it's still all about the money. the problem, at least for me is that people are starting to listen to too many mp3s and get used with the bad sound mp3s have. i mean, it doesn't compare to wav or an audio cd. i feel it's a pitty. plus the thrill of buying a brand new cd and checking out the cd case is gone. the appreciation for an artist is also gone. because now everyone has thousands of songs in their computer or what-ever, people are missing the real point: to listen to the artist, not to get more and more songs of the artist.
Actually, I do buy CD and get excited over the CD case and everything. It is just that I only buy CD like once a year and that's if I think the artist is exceptionally good.

mykalreborn
February 9th, 2007, 02:43 PM
Actually, I do buy CD and get excited over the CD case and everything. It is just that I only buy CD like once a year and that's if I think the artist is exceptionally good.

exactly what i was saying. i would buy cds but for a romanian wage a cd is pretty expensive, pretty expensive indeed - foreign ones that is, but since romanian music isn't all that great ;) - but if i had the money, i would never listen to music downloaded off the internet. i mean... it's part of the listening experience, to have the feeling of opening a brand new cd.
and plus this whole thing is slowly turning us into big blobs of fat. :p

Dragonbite
February 9th, 2007, 03:25 PM
I just wish the iPod could play .OGG files, now THAT is "open" (no quotes needed)

Jussi Kukkonen
February 9th, 2007, 03:26 PM
drm or not drm, it's still all about the money. the problem, at least for me is that people are starting to listen to too many mp3s and get used with the bad sound mp3s have. i mean, it doesn't compare to wav or an audio cd.

This won't be a problem in the long run, I believe. disk space gets cheaper so fast that I expect lossy compression to be obsolete pretty fast (download speeds aren't going up at the same rate, admittedly). I just realized that the price of the day was below 0.3 per gigabyte a few weeks ago -- I've now re-ripped my entire CD collection in FLAC, the total cost being less than 40...

mykalreborn
February 9th, 2007, 03:28 PM
This won't be a problem in the long run, I believe. disk space gets cheaper so fast that I expect lossy compression to be obsolete pretty fast (download speeds aren't going up at the same rate, admittedly). I just realized that the price of the day was below 0.3€ per gigabyte a few weeks ago -- I've now re-ripped my entire CD collection in FLAC, the total cost being less than 40€...
Reply With Quote

flac would be a good solution to all this, but since it's open source we might have to wait a little

Sunnz
February 9th, 2007, 04:41 PM
You could install iPodLinux on an iPod, which in theory can handle ogg files, and should be, just don't take my words for it. :p

dvarsam
February 9th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Original News Post (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6344929.stm)

"Warner Music has rejected a suggestion from Apple boss Steve Jobs that record companies should remove copy protection software from digital music downloads."

Your opinions on this?

To be Honest, this is one of the reasons I have decided to NOT buy/download Music CDs/songs from Local Stores/Internet!
I have heard, that you pay for the song, but you can play the songs, only where DRM companies prefer...

Examples:
- IF you decide to download to your Ipod but can NOT copy & paste it, to play in your PC...
- IF you decide to download by using your Mobile Phone, you can't copy & paste it elsewhere...
- IF you download to your PC, you can't write the song to a CD-ROM...

This is what people have been talking about!!!
Why should I go ahead & buy from the Internet or Local Stores when there are so many restrictions?
Basically, you can buy the CD/song, but you can't play/listen to it!!! :confused:
I have decided NOT to buy at all!
Not to mention that Sony disgusting "bug", embedded to the Music CDs that hacked your PC!!!
I don't want to listen to music anymore, dude...
I prefer surfing the NET instead...!!!

Thanks.

P.S.> By this time Next Year, their Sales will be down by another 20%...
I guess that by implementing these policies, their global target is for 0 sales overall!! :)

super breadfish
February 9th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Records companies know that DRM won't stop piracy. There will always be someone out there who is prepared to go to whatever lengths to get something for nothing. But they still want DRM.

The idea of DRM is to trick regular consumers into buying more than one copy of their media. Content producers want you to buy a copy for your CD player, your iPod, your computer, your phone, everything you play it on they want paying for. DRM is an easy way to do that. The more DRM that gets around the more they can squeeze out your rights.

Dragonbite
February 9th, 2007, 07:08 PM
You could install iPodLinux on an iPod, which in theory can handle ogg files, and should be, just don't take my words for it. :pUnfortunately I am not sure if that will work on my iPod Shuffle.

Brainfart
February 9th, 2007, 08:52 PM
I agree with Jobs' statement being based on a business perspective as well. However, it's good that he's putting up a little resistance. Gates has also given anti-DRM statements, though not as direct (nor was it publicized as much). As to Vista supporting DRM so much, I'm somewhat curious if the recording companies could make a case of MSFT "supporting piracy" if they refused to support DRM. IANAL, but I don't have much faith in the judicial system here either...

Sunnz
February 10th, 2007, 04:09 AM
Unfortunately I am not sure if that will work on my iPod Shuffle.
LOL, you should still check it out (ask the iPodLinux guys.) maybe it would work some way or the other.

Praxicoide
February 10th, 2007, 05:15 AM
Did anyone have a look at this?

EMI to Release Unprotected Music (http://www.channelinsider.com/article/Sources+EMI+to+Release+Unprotected+Music/200769_1.aspx)

Polygon
February 10th, 2007, 06:43 AM
To be Honest, this is one of the reasons I have decided to NOT buy/download Music CDs/songs from Local Stores/Internet!
I have heard, that you pay for the song, but you can play the songs, only where DRM companies prefer...

Examples:
- IF you decide to download to your Ipod but can NOT copy & paste it, to play in your PC...
- IF you decide to download by using your Mobile Phone, you can't copy & paste it elsewhere...
- IF you download to your PC, you can't write the song to a CD-ROM...

This is what people have been talking about!!!
Why should I go ahead & buy from the Internet or Local Stores when there are so many restrictions?
Basically, you can buy the CD/song, but you can't play/listen to it!!! :confused:
I have decided NOT to buy at all!
Not to mention that Sony disgusting "bug", embedded to the Music CDs that hacked your PC!!!
I don't want to listen to music anymore, dude...
I prefer surfing the NET instead...!!!

Thanks.

P.S.> By this time Next Year, their Sales will be down by another 20%...
I guess that by implementing these policies, their global target is for 0 sales overall!! :)

music cd's that you buy physically from the store dont have any DRM on them, there was only one sony cd with a rootkit and everyone bashed sony pretty hard for that

but with the physical CD, you can rip it using any codec, lossy or lossless, use it on any mp3 or audio player, play it in a CD player, and make copies of the CD if you want. Clearly the physical cd is the solution for anti - drm right now.

blueturtl
February 10th, 2007, 09:11 AM
The RIAA and it's members are going the way of the dinosaur. They don't even understand the market they are in. It is not a a tape market or a CD market. It is the music market. Now that an alternative way to distribute music is available (and it practically costs nil) it would be good for them to realize this and move on. People still want music, but what the record industry is doing is comparable to ask people to still be using gramophones when there is more advanced and easy technology available.


music cd's that you buy physically from the store dont have any DRM on them, there was only one sony cd with a rootkit and everyone bashed sony pretty hard for that

Actually a lot of discs have some form of DRM already. The most common type of DRM though is pretty easy to bypass: run any other operating system than Windows. This type of DRM trusts the Windows autoplay feature and launches a spesifically planted player from the CD data track. Since new versions of Windows no longer have a dedicated CD-player Windows Media player and it's restrictions take over. In Linux or any other operating system such "defenses" can be forgotten about. I've succesfully ripped each and every CD in Ubuntu that was impossible to rip in Windows.


"Warner Music has rejected a suggestion from Apple boss Steve Jobs that record companies should remove copy protection software from digital music downloads."

Your opinions on this?

I think Steve knows what's good for his business. After all iTunes probably only has DRM because they'd lose all their licenced music if they didn't conform to the music providers' requirements. After that, who'd want to use iTunes?