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View Full Version : Living in a right-click world



CheshireMac
February 8th, 2007, 08:24 PM
With Vista on the rise, and Ubuntu making some serious efforts in popularizing Linux, it makes one wonder about OSX (the other white meat ~LOL~). I have no disagreements with Macs, except that there is no right click, which is essentially the only thing I can't get past in computer use. Aside from that, I know of no other differences, comparing it to M$ products . . .but I keep hearing people saying lately that Mac computers, Ipods, and anything Apple related is just as evil as M$ . . .now although you still have to buy new software for Mac, and they have their proprietary restrictions as well, the advantage of worry-free operation is still what I would consider the ultimate deciding difference between Windows and any other OS . . .
So, to settle this post to an end, what I guess I'm ranting about is the fact that M$ is still the only vulnerable OS, and OSX is still great, if you can get past the lack of buttons on your mouse.

Jonne
February 8th, 2007, 08:31 PM
You can use a regular mouse with a mac (in fact, macs now ship with a mouse that has 5 buttons + a scroll wheel that can go up & sideways).

I still don't like it though, especially the way the app menu is on top of the screen all the time.

CheshireMac
February 8th, 2007, 08:36 PM
You can use a regular mouse with a mac (in fact, macs now ship with a mouse that has 5 buttons + a scroll wheel that can go up & sideways).

I still don't like it though, especially the way the app menu is on top of the screen all the time.
~LOL~ That's how I set my app menu in Edgy. A window bar at the bottom and apps on top . . .I have a big screen though . . .soon to be dual.

Jonne
February 8th, 2007, 08:49 PM
I mean the 'file edit view ...' options, i guess i wasn't clear.

CheshireMac
February 8th, 2007, 09:33 PM
I mean the 'file edit view ...' options, i guess i wasn't clear.
Well, that's basically what Ubuntu's apps menu is, only a little better defined than OSX . . .But anyhow, I would like to find a more convenient DE layout. Can't wait for VR to take hold a little more dominantly. ~LOL~

Alfa989
February 8th, 2007, 10:53 PM
I still don't like it though, especially the way the app menu is on top of the screen all the time.

Why? :)

Alfa989
February 8th, 2007, 10:54 PM
I have no disagreements with Macs, except that there is no right click

You can right click on Mac OS X as well... Just hit the second mouse button...

I started using Macs before the Mighty Mouse arrived, and I thought I'd miss the second mouse button on my iBook, but I rarely hit ctrl+click, I just use keyboard shortcuts (cmd+c, cmd+v...) :)

Check this (http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/) out

Auria
February 9th, 2007, 03:14 AM
Just buy a mouse with a right button ;) I have one on my mac and it works as expected

As for the menu bar at the top, there are pros and cons (i've used both systems extensively and can't tell one as so much better than another)

advantages of having it at the top is that it's always quick to access it, you just pull our mouse up. Also, it's screen-wide so more options fit, and also longer menus are displayed better becausee they don't reach the end of the screen. However, disadvantage is that you can only have one menubar at once.

Jonne
February 9th, 2007, 11:36 AM
Why? :)
2 things:
-i don't use my apps full-screen, so if i want to go into the file menu, i have to move my mouse all the way to the top, then back again. Add to that the fact that the mouse cursor is set to 'way too slow' by default (yes, it can be easily changed, i know that), and it takes ages before you made the whole trip

-If you have two apps open, side to side, you have to first activate the other app before you're working in it, so going to the file menu takes two steps, instead of one.


And don't get me started on the lack of good free software. There's tons of free apps for windows and Linux, but try finding a decent free text editor for the mac...

Linux has Gedit, Kate, Scite, ..., Windows has Notepad++, Notepad2,... and these are just the ones I know of the top of my head, and they're all Free as in GPL. On a mac, you're pretty much forced to just buy BBedit.

I really thought I'd like OS X, but Ubuntu and even Windows XP (but that's probably because I'm used to it) are a lot easier to work with for me.

edit: Feel free to prove me wrong about the text editor thing BTW. If there really is a good free text editor (with syntax highlighting) for Mac OS X, I'd love to hear about it.

Alfa989
February 10th, 2007, 01:58 PM
2 things:
-i don't use my apps full-screen, so if i want to go into the file menu, i have to move my mouse all the way to the top, then back again. Add to that the fact that the mouse cursor is set to 'way too slow' by default (yes, it can be easily changed, i know that), and it takes ages before you made the whole trip

As Auria said, according to Fitts' Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27_Law) you just need to boost the cursor to the top fo the screen to reach the menu bar, so it's easier to use...

It takes ages to go to the top of the sceen?? Do you use a cinema screen or what? :-P
Speed is ok, i haven't had any problem with it...


edit: Feel free to prove me wrong about the text editor thing BTW. If there really is a good free text editor (with syntax highlighting) for Mac OS X, I'd love to hear about it.
Well, you can get great text editors like Smultron, SubEthaEdit, TextWrangler, TextMate... all of them with syntax highlighting... For a nearly complete list check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS_X_text_editors)

Jonne
February 10th, 2007, 04:08 PM
As Auria said, according to Fitts' Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27_Law) you just need to boost the cursor to the top fo the screen to reach the menu bar, so it's easier to use...

It takes ages to go to the top of the sceen?? Do you use a cinema screen or what? :-P
Speed is ok, i haven't had any problem with it...


Well, you can get great text editors like Smultron, SubEthaEdit, TextWrangler, TextMate... all of them with syntax highlighting... For a nearly complete list check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS_X_text_editors)
Thanks for the list, I'll try them out if I ever boot into Mac OS X again.

The iMac I have at work is a replacement for an old pIII. My boss insisted on buying a mac, because everyone else there has a mac (I'm a web developer at a company in the gfx industry). Since I'm more productive with Windows (as I've used it since Win95, and before that DOS) I run Windows XP on it with boot camp. The screen I have has a resolution of 1680x1050, so you can fit a few apps on there.

At home I run Ubuntu, and I'd like to start running it at work too (and I'd lock up Windows iin a virtual machine). Unfortunately triple booting Ubuntu, XP, and Mac OS X isn't exactly straightforward, and i can't really afford to screw up the machine and go through the whole reinstall process again.

Auria
February 10th, 2007, 04:15 PM
Well for the menu at the top... all you need to do is boost the mouse up by a big step and mouse automatically stops at the menu, so you can do it by moving your mouse very fastly - nothing slow here. You don,t need to care where the mouse ends, just move it fastly upwards and it's automatically on the menus.

The real disadvantage i see is, as you said, if two apps are open side to side.

Trebuchet
February 10th, 2007, 07:39 PM
I don't feel right unless my mouse (actually I vastly prefer trackballs) has at least 5 buttons and a scrollwheel. Right now I'm using a Microsoft Trackball Explorer, with the buttons set up as left click, right click, enter, forward, and back. It's by far the best controller I've ever used, although its $70 pricetag is a negative (Mine was an Xmas present).

3rdalbum
February 11th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Well for the menu at the top... all you need to do is boost the mouse up by a big step and mouse automatically stops at the menu, so you can do it by moving your mouse very fastly - nothing slow here. You don,t need to care where the mouse ends, just move it fastly upwards and it's automatically on the menus.

The real disadvantage i see is, as you said, if two apps are open side to side.

Does this really matter? 99.99% of people don't notice the difference in time or cognition that is required to access Windows/X-style menu bars over Mac-style menu bars.

Come to think of it, it's quicker and easier to just tap a keyboard shortcut than use the mouse, once you're familiar with the programs you use.

Auria
February 12th, 2007, 02:48 AM
Does this really matter? 99.99% of people don't notice the difference in time or cognition that is required to access Windows/X-style menu bars over Mac-style menu bars.

Come to think of it, it's quicker and easier to just tap a keyboard shortcut than use the mouse, once you're familiar with the programs you use.

Well i'm not arguing which is better, i'm just pointing advantages and disadvantages. Personally i've used both and honestly don't really care.

erlyrisa
February 13th, 2007, 10:33 AM
Does this really matter? 99.99% of people don't notice the difference in time or cognition that is required to access Windows/X-style menu bars over Mac-style menu bars.

Come to think of it, it's quicker and easier to just tap a keyboard shortcut than use the mouse, once you're familiar with the programs you use.

I get my DTP done at the typical Publishing house - which of course uses macs.
-I have always noticed how MAC PEOPLE are somewhat more content at spending more time on a single project. They have been somewhat become accustomed to working slowly. I watch DTP chicks working away at Layouts and Wording in software like adobe PS and quark.

-I also get my posters printed at an industrial printing joint. They use PC's - I watch the dudes doing custom jobs for clients - thier fonts choices are usually the secong one from the top and colour choices are plain, even drop shadows are usually ommitted - I saw one guy complete an entire Restuarant menu while I was waiting for my invoice to be written by the secretary .


-Menu at the top - yeah , I don't think mac users know of any speed difference or are even concerned, most have plenty of time for thier látte - after they have charged extrodinary amounts for rudimentary tasks.

kaahmfish
February 14th, 2007, 04:19 AM
ctl-click! or just use keyboard shortcuts... not that bad to buy a mouse w/ right click either...

Alfa989
February 14th, 2007, 04:13 PM
I don't think mac users know of any speed difference or are even concerned, most have plenty of time for thier látte - after they have charged extrodinary amounts for rudimentary tasks.

Well... I am usually faster in Mac OS X than ni windows or Linux...

erlyrisa
February 19th, 2007, 11:28 AM
Well... I am usually faster in Mac OS X than ni windows or Linux...

I was just pionting out that - the mac is for the artist with TIME on their hands. Whereas the PC was always supposed tobe the configurable tasker - the POS machine , the spreadsheet, the accountants machine - ie people that don't have ime to be concerned with zooming icons.

-Macs are usually in the hands of 'the upper echelon' of society. They have the money to spend for rudimentary software and hardware for thier macs, yet still complain about how it's such a chore to open a Tiff from a PC because PC's aren't advanced enough to make Tiff's for macs (a quote from one of the DTP houses I used to get stuff done at). Or how it's impossible to export 'thier' file formats unless I have a zip drive and a Mac. (another excuse I recieved from the same DTP artist, which prompted me to by a 386 with CorelDraw and a hand scanner - I have never looked back)

Alfa989
February 19th, 2007, 11:58 AM
I was just pionting out that - the mac is for the artist with TIME on their hands. Whereas the PC was always supposed tobe the configurable tasker - the POS machine , the spreadsheet, the accountants machine - ie people that don't have ime to be concerned with zooming icons.


Lol... Do I look like someone who has lots of time in his hands?? Well, I haven't...

P.S: What zooming icons are you talking about? The Dock? Well, that has got a purpose, not like 90% of Beryl effects... Which are normally useless...:)

3rdalbum
February 20th, 2007, 12:09 PM
Lol... Do I look like someone who has lots of time in his hands?? Well, I haven't...

P.S: What zooming icons are you talking about? The Dock? Well, that has got a purpose, not like 90% of Beryl effects... Which are normally useless...:)

Heh, a reasonable proportion of Beryl effects are actually ripped off from OS X! (Magic Lamp, Expose... OS X even has a cube, of sorts!)

Jonne
February 20th, 2007, 01:19 PM
Heh, a reasonable proportion of Beryl effects are actually ripped off from OS X! (Magic Lamp, Expose... OS X even has a cube, of sorts!)
OS X has a cube? what does it do? I thought they only added multiple desktops in Leopard (without a cube, even)...

Alfa989
February 20th, 2007, 01:37 PM
Heh, a reasonable proportion of Beryl effects are actually ripped off from OS X! (Magic Lamp, Expose... OS X even has a cube, of sorts!)

Magic Lamp?? Oh, the genie effect? In what way does Beryl implement it?
The Exposé thingy is quite nice...
Mac OS X's cube is used for Fast User Switching, and it is done to provide an intuitive GUI... not like those wobbly windows...:)

mysticrider92
February 20th, 2007, 11:43 PM
P.S: What zooming icons are you talking about? The Dock? Well, that has got a purpose, not like 90% of Beryl effects... Which are normally useless...:)
That is exactly why I use Beryl. :cool: The "genie" effect can be used for things like opening, closing, minimizing, and maximizing windows in Beryl. (see the attached screenshot)

Jonne
February 20th, 2007, 11:57 PM
Beryl is mostly useful because of the cube to switch desktops, it just feels more natural with animation. Alt-tab and the way it's easy to change the opacity of random windows is also very useful. Beryl's not just eyecandy, it"s an enhancement. Now if only we had good 3d drivers in for Linux...

Alfa989
February 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM
That is exactly why I use Beryl. :cool: The "genie" effect can be used for things like opening, closing, minimizing, and maximizing windows in Beryl. (see the attached screenshot)

Doesn't the Beryl effect look weird?
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6973/geniejv9.th.png (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=geniejv9.png)

mysticrider92
February 23rd, 2007, 02:27 AM
Alfa989: Is that Mac OSX? Or did you manage to get Linux to look that close?

Alfa989
February 23rd, 2007, 07:22 PM
Alfa989: Is that Mac OSX? Or did you manage to get Linux to look that close?

It's OS X, I currently haven't got Ubuntu installed in the iBook...