Look at the History of Linux, then you know the way to success

[Tank90]

Hello folks,

I'm a pretty new Linux user. I've been using Ubuntu for about 6 months and although I still need Windows on my laptop and on a separate partition (for school work and programming), I'm primarily using Ubuntu.

I think the Linux developers should look at the history of Linux itself to see what brings success. Without Apache, Linux would have been close to nothing by now. It would never have become this popular as a server platform. So, what I think you need to actually get Windows users to migrate is the one-and-only killer application.

I'm a student, I write a lot of reports. So when my teacher told me about LaTeX and LyX I decided to try out Linux (again really, since I have toyed around with Linux installations before). The first thing I did (after having a lot of trouble with the installation) was to install LyX. I was extremely happy with LyX. But! Its UI is also extremely outdated, inconsistent and generally a pain to use because it doesn't fit with the Gnome desktop.

I quickly started to look for Gnome ports of LyX but didn't find anything but dead projects. In my search for a Gnome UI I found TeXmacs which I love. To me, It's an improved version of LyX that makes it much easier to use it as a general document/essay/report writing tool. But again, TeXmacs looks like something from 1975. The concept and implementation is ingenious, but the interface and promotion is terrible. What Ubuntu needs is to take a project like TeXmacs, update the interface to use Gnome, optimize the code, maybe merge it with an application like Gobby (which is ingenious too, it's great for school work!) and promote it as "the" application for Ubuntu. Make it easy to use, updated, good-looking (those Tango icons are great) and integrate it into the rest of the system. Why should something like this be done?

When I go to school, I tell my schoolmates about Linux, Ubuntu, the cool applications I use, how they make my life easier. I show them Beryl because it's undoubtedly the coolest 3D desktop ever made. So, if I could tell them about this killer-application, running smoothly on Ubuntu, making schoolwork much easier and the result better, that would certainly be a winner.

Oh, and if anyone can make a GTK/Gnome UI for TeXmacs, I owe you my life! :P

This is just my 2 cents on this issue, I really think it could help. Innovation is what's making the world turn around. Many Linux applications are innovative, but they are also often "forgotten" because they're so hard to use or doesn't fit in as a modern application for the ordinary user.

This isn't a rant or anything, I really like Ubuntu and the applications. Ubuntu just need "THE" application :)

Have a nice day!

Thank you,

Dan Soendergaard
Denmark

[saulgoode]

Scribus (http://www.scribus.net/)?

[Tank90]

I'm not talking about desktop publishing, I'm talking about merging some of the coolest and least know Linux applications (LaTeX, TeXmacs, Gobby) and making them available to the broad public. My killer-application is just an example, it could be anything else :)

[Adamant1988]

I'm not talking about desktop publishing, I'm talking about merging some of the coolest and least know Linux applications (LaTeX, TeXmacs, Gobby) and making them available to the broad public. My killer-application is just an example, it could be anything else :)

The real problem behind that is there won't be a "Linux Only killer app". Remember that anything that gains that kind of traction in Linux is most likely going to be OpenSource, there is absolutely nothing to stop someone from porting that to Windows and making it run there. Linux is going to get a lot more important in the coming 10 years I would say, as will Mac computers. It's going to be a more social trend than anything, in the future it's not going to matter what Operating System you run, everything you need is going to be available online.

So you're going to see a lot of people who just don't care what they have, as long as they can get online. Since Linux systems will (most likely) be cheaper to purchase, it would only make sense to go with something cheap rather than pay the extra money for a windows computer that you're going to do the exact same thing on. Apple is going to just grow and grow I think, Macs are like the Ipod, every teenager seems to want one. But they can't afford them.. yet. Those teenagers are going to college, graduating college, and getting decent pay now and over the next few years. So I predict mac and linux computers becoming a lot more widely used when my generation becomes the major work-force.

[koenn]

I think the Linux developers should look at the history of Linux itself to see what brings success. ... So, what I think you need to actually get Windows users to migrate is the one-and-only killer application.

Here's another take on learning from history :
http://catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html

I's rather long and technical, but the author does make some valid points about how Windows became predominant at the transition of 16bit to 32 bit operating systems, and what it would take for Linux to become the predominant (desktop) OS when the transition to 64bit OS's will occur, which will be, (if trends tend to continue - which they usually do) around 2008.

It supports the statement that a killer-app will play only a minor role, if any. Open source makes it hard for a killer app to be limited to Linux - and web apps could well be taking over from deskop apps.

[Efwis]

Those teenagers are going to college, graduating college, and getting decent pay now and over the next few years. So I predict mac and linux computers becoming a lot more widely used when my generation becomes the major work-force.

The problem with that statement is all the schools, at least in the US, use MS. Unless they are going to school for UNIX based education, like a IT admin, they are all using MS software. The only way this is going to change is by making these schools understand that Linux is a viable alternative to Windows, and not require students to have MS Office, but to start pushing Open document formats like OOo uses.

These schools also need to start supporting Linux using students when they need to connect to their servers, and offer viable solutions to this end. One more thing you gotta look at is that for students to want to learn the UNIX/Linux systems, there has to be money involved. unless they become a UNIX Admin, that doesn't exist because open source is mainly done on a voluntary status. The software developers freely donate their time to create these programs we use, and then they "give" them away for free. Hence the reason you can get most Linux distros for free. I say most because there are some out there that want money, but they also offer a free version. examples include, Mandriva, Suse Pro, Linspire just to name a few.

Until that is done, Linux will continue to struggle against MS.

[Adamant1988]

The problem with that statement is all the schools, at least in the US, use MS. Unless they are going to school for UNIX based education, like a IT admin, they are all using MS software. The only way this is going to change is by making these schools understand that Linux is a viable alternative to Windows, and not require students to have MS Office, but to start pushing Open document formats like OOo uses.

These schools also need to start supporting Linux using students when they need to connect to their servers, and offer viable solutions to this end. One more thing you gotta look at is that for students to want to learn the UNIX/Linux systems, there has to be money involved. unless they become a UNIX Admin, that doesn't exist because open source is mainly done on a voluntary status. The software developers freely donate their time to create these programs we use, and then they "give" them away for free. Hence the reason you can get most Linux distros for free. I say most because there are some out there that want money, but they also offer a free version. examples include, Mandriva, Suse Pro, Linspire just to name a few.

Until that is done, Linux will continue to struggle against MS.
You're absolutely right. But I can see a school saying "Well, if you can't afford Microsoft Office, just use OpenOffice" etc. Using open standards is going to be a major step forward, I certainly agree with you. But in terms of systems a lot of people just buy computers by price, and if they can Save $150 by switching to OpenSuse, Linspire, etc. Then they'll do it. Which may just be the push that FOSS needs.

[IYY]

I'd also love to see a better LaTeX editor, as would many mathematicians and scientists, and also my brother who always asks me to 'tex-up' his essays. However, I don't think that even 3% of Ubuntu users care about such an app.

[Efwis]

You're absolutely right. But I can see a school saying "Well, if you can't afford Microsoft Office, just use OpenOffice" etc. Using open standards is going to be a major step forward, I certainly agree with you. But in terms of systems a lot of people just buy computers by price, and if they can Save $150 by switching to OpenSuse, Linspire, etc. Then they'll do it. Which may just be the push that FOSS needs.

Dell offers a computer with Linux on it, RHEL is the distro, upon doing a search for this computer, it falls under the case of why bother?

Dell Precision 690 $1729

now, you can get just about any other Dell for around $500 to $600 but you get stuck with MS. so just because the computer has Linux on it, doesn't mean that it will cost $150 less, because it won't. They get a better price from MS because that is what most people want or are used to. They charge so much more because Linux techs are hard to come by, and they are going to pay good money for someone that can troubleshoot a computer with linux over the phone. The savings aren't there unfortunately, at least until more of these OEM companies start offering Linux as a viable alternative to Windows. The problem with that is these OEM's are getting threatened, off the record, by MS that their cost for the Windows OS will increase if they offer Linux. Dell is big enough that they can bite the bullet on it. but companies like Gateway, HP, etc.. they can't afford the hit since they are already charging too much for their computers. It would drive them under.

[Adamant1988]

Dell offers a computer with Linux on it, RHEL is the distro, upon doing a search for this computer, it falls under the case of why bother?

Dell Precision 690 $1729

now, you can get just about any other Dell for around $500 to $600 but you get stuck with MS. so just because the computer has Linux on it, doesn't mean that it will cost $150 less, because it won't. They get a better price from MS because that is what most people want or are used to. They charge so much more because Linux techs are hard to come by, and they are going to pay good money for someone that can troubleshoot a computer with linux over the phone. The savings aren't there unfortunately, at least until more of these OEM companies start offering Linux as a viable alternative to Windows. The problem with that is these OEM's are getting threatened, off the record, by MS that their cost for the Windows OS will increase if they offer Linux. Dell is big enough that they can bite the bullet on it. but companies like Gateway, HP, etc.. they can't afford the hit since they are already charging too much for their computers. It would drive them under.

While support from Dell and HP would be wonderful, I suspect it's the tier 2 and tier 3 OEMs that are going to be the ones that can push linux, the smaller more nimble businesses.

[teet]

I'd also love to see a better LaTeX editor, as would many mathematicians and scientists, and also my brother who always asks me to 'tex-up' his essays. However, I don't think that even 3% of Ubuntu users care about such an app.

I always liked texmaker.

http://www.xm1math.net/texmaker/

I think it's a "KDE app" though. I used it before in gnome with no problem. I don't currently have it installed because I graduated and have little need to "tex" anything anymore. Sad really.

-teet

[kragen]

Gotta say - that pretty much mirror's my starting experiences with linux - install it a few times, trash it time and time again, spend ages trying to work out how to install something, finding it ends up being only slightly easier to use than it was to install :)

The "Killer App" idea is nice, but "Killer Apps" tend to only appeal to specific user bases - take Apache for example, admitedly it's one of the reasons why linux is used so much in web servers, but it's not the only reason - its the combination of all the effects (apache, mySQL, general linux stability, the fact it doesnt cost money :D), that make its user popular. I'd have to say that Apache really isnt that much of a killer app - especialy when you consider that it works on windows as well anyway :)

The same thing happens even more so when you look at desktop users. A word processor or office tool migh be a killer app, but without a video / music player, a web browser and an email reader, no-one will be interested. I'd say that the biggest influence for many is not the one "killer app", but instead based more on the weakest app - the one that doesnt work quite the way it should, doesn't have a UI which is particularily well thought out, or crashes every now and then. It doesnt matter how great the word processor or web browser is, it's always going to be the weakest program that decides whether or not users will stick with linux.

[cowlip]

kragen: I think Linux is definitely getting there though. I remember only a few years ago when I would check out Phoenix/Firefox for a day and then uninstall it and go back to IE, but then there was a point where it became my main browser. And now it's quite the success, of course it also works on Linux so that is both a pro or con depending on how you look at it..

honestly, KDE4 will be probably be a killer app. Apps that will run on both OSX and Windows, *plus* great frameworks for foreign users like Sonnet http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/01/1937225&from=rss