Linspire and Ubuntu partnering up / CNR ported to Ubuntu...

[aysiu]

Last year, Kevin Carmony (from Linspire) visited our forums and proposed the idea of porting CNR (Click'N Run) to Ubuntu.

There were two polls about the idea:
Kevin's CNR Poll (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138616)
Should Linspire Offer CNR for Ubuntu Users? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138603)

For a while, it looked as if the idea were dead.

Then, recently, Linspire announced it was making CNR open source.
And even more recently Linspire announced it would start basing itself off Ubuntu while Ubuntu announced it would include CNR with Ubuntu:
http://www.ubuntu.com/news/LinspirePartnership

The following thread is a discussion of this new announcement.

[towsonu2003]

I was worried about this, and here is the first example as a comment:


4 • Click-N-Run-a-mile (by Samovar on 2006-03-06 11:51:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
Don't you just love those commercial goons trying to muscle in on the main attraction?!
Linux & co. are as much about avoiding another criminal OS rip off and eternal leverage by the cartel. Then there's Klik by probono for Knoppix and Kanotix, plus dotpup and pupget for Puppy, amongst others. It doesn't come any easier nor cheaper.
Robertson, Linspire and Ubuntu - shame on you.
(italics mine)

Posted to distrowatch at http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060306 that published this rumor after DesktopLinux.com. For those who do not know, the rumor was spread first by the CEO of Linspire (formerly known as Lindows) at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138603&highlight=cnr . There is already logo work going on at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138749&highlight=cnr . Here is the poll posted by this CEO: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138616&highlight=cnr .

Ubuntu was already famous for being the distro of children (Linux newbies). I thank our capitalist overlords for furthering its reputation to Ubuntu Linux, Inc.

[bjweeks]

It's not hurting is at all. It is just a app how is that ubuntu fault?

[towsonu2003]

I thank our capitalist overlords for furthering its reputation to Ubuntu Linux, Inc.
I think it is our capitalist overlords' fault, not Ubuntu (just a compilation of packages).

[bjweeks]

You mean the ones that pay for ubuntu?

[raublekick]

To be honest, I probably will never use CNR. But, it is important because it legitimizes Linux legally by putting a price on things that should cost money in certain parts of the world.

Specifically to Ubuntu, it may hurt its image. To the Linux world in general, I think it will help with people outside of the opensource world.

[purdy hate machine]

I can’t understand why Ubuntu is being targeted for CNR, if Linspire want to offer this product to the masses then make it available to all Disto’s and host it on their website as Opera do. Those who want in can download it and those who don’t can steer well clear. No more tears!

[drotter]

Maybe someone can clear something up for me. I'm not sure what this is supposed to imply.

Are there going to be software that is not in the repositories (that i can get with apt-get) that is in CNR (aside from codecs and things)? Does this imply that things I could orginally get by doing apt-get won't be available anymore?

Or is this just a fancy "face" for apt...and if yes, how is it better then synaptic?

So far the only thing that i understand is that it will probally be updated faster then the repositories meaning that I can get updates to things like firefox and OO faster.

I dont mean to hijack this thread...I just dont really understand enough to have an opinion.

[codejunkie]

I was worried about this, and here is the first example as a comment:

Posted to distrowatch at http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060306 that published this rumor after DesktopLinux.com. For those who do not know, the rumor was spread first by the CEO of Linspire (formerly known as Lindows) at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138603&highlight=cnr . There is already logo work going on at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138749&highlight=cnr . Here is the poll posted by this CEO: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138616&highlight=cnr .

Ubuntu was already famous for being the distro of children (Linux newbies). I thank our capitalist overlords for furthering its reputation to Ubuntu Linux, Inc.
There might be some negative comments & rumors about this, but is what linspire does any different than what suse, redhat, mandrake, and other commercial distro's do, they all sell free software, they are in it for profit, but everyone hates linspire and not the other commercial distros.
There is always going to be positive and negative hype about a popular distro like Ubuntu. Remember all the hype about ubuntu being that distro with the naked people, there always going to be people that talk smack personally i say lets do the CNR thing, it will give the end users more choice, and i can't wait to read all the hype i can see the headline now Ubuntu The Distro That Got Naked And Jumped In Bed With Linspire..but ubuntu will always be a great distro no matter what the critic's say.

[Jucato]

Maybe coz Mark Shuttleworth and Kevin Carmony are friends?
Maybe coz Linspire wants Ubuntu to be a test dummy for offering CNR?
Who knows.
Will it hurt Ubuntu's image? Maybe for some, yes. Maybe for the others, no. You can't please anyone. Besides, it's not like it's going to be an official part of Ubuntu, right? Maybe it's just a hype. Again, who knows.

... but I must admit, I find the logo thing a bit too... enthusiastic... It almost feels like an Ubuntu-Linspire merger. It is a beautiful logo, though. Just without the "CNR" :D

[Brunellus]

Ubuntu was already famous for being the distro of children (Linux newbies). I thank our capitalist overlords for furthering its reputation to Ubuntu Linux, Inc.

I think you mean Pr0nBuntu, the distro with naked people.

[DrFunkenstein]

Maybe someone can clear something up for me. I'm not sure what this is supposed to imply.

Are there going to be software that is not in the repositories (that i can get with apt-get) that is in CNR (aside from codecs and things)?

Yes.


Does this imply that things I could orginally get by doing apt-get won't be available anymore?

No, Ubuntu will stay the same.
The only thing that could happen is that a third party offers an additional service for Ubuntu, that is, CNR.



Or is this just a fancy "face" for apt...

Well, I don't no much about the CNR internals, but essentially it is just a tool to install debs.



and if yes, how is it better then synaptic?

Screenshots, user ratings, nicer interface, etc...
Take a look yourself to see if you think it offers anything over synaptic for you that would make it worth for you paying for it.
http://www.linspire.com/products_cnr_whatis.php?tab=warehouse



So far the only thing that i understand is that it will probally be updated faster then the repositories meaning that I can get updates to things like firefox and OO faster.

I honestly don't know if that would be the case.

@towsonu2003:
Sorry to be so blunt, but this thread is just silly. So some guy on the internet made a negative comment about ubuntu becuase of CNR. How terrible.

And I didn't see you go around and complain when people made negative comments about Ubuntu because it supposedly didn't give back to Debian, was a fork of Debian, or because launchpad is not open source.

[tikal26]

I don't think that it hurts ubuntu image. I don't think that it is going to become a requirement of ubuntu, but it would be nice to legalize some part of ubuntu and it would just atract other to it. For example, my sister always tells me that she would switch to ubuntu if they would legally support some restricted codecs. She wanted to try lilnspire but did not like the look of it. she feels Ubuntu is a strong solid distro but it lacks some commercial support. Maybe they should offer a version CNR that just includes the codecs and see what the reaction is.

[Jucato]

As I understand it, one of the main advantages of CNR would be overcoming the legal issues on propriety codecs and stuff. Otherwise it will be pretty much the same as apt (internet connection, installatin, etc). Of course it won't be free. I see it like a sort of enterprise version of Automatix, but with more features and apps to choose from.

I'm certain that it won't change the way Ubuntu works and will never become an offical/main part of Ubuntu, because it will go against Ubuntu's basic philosophy. It will always be, IMHO, a 3rd-party project. I guess we should be flattered that Kevin/Linspire chose us to be the first to experience CNR outside of Linspire.

[towsonu2003]

I think you mean Pr0nBuntu, the distro with naked people.
That was a feature I liked, but it was removed by Gnome developers </sarcasm>



And I didn't see you go around and complain when people made negative comments about Ubuntu because it supposedly didn't give back to Debian, was a fork of Debian, or because launchpad is not open source.
* didn't give back to Debian -> I agree with them. But I don't have money so I can't donate to them (either to the forum or to Ubuntu).
* fork of Debian -> it is.
* launchpad -> I prefered to believe Mr. Shuttleworth who claimed it will go open source soon.

[matthinckley]

I am tired of hearing about how this is going to hurt ubuntu.. people are going to have their own opinions about it sure.. but lets not blow everything out of porportion..

If someone wants to say they aren't going to use ubuntu because cnr is available for it.. fine.. don't use it.. just because that doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean i'm going to make you use ubuntu..

thats like me not buying a new car because there is an extended warranty available but I would have to pay for it.

and whats all this linspire sucks.. if linspire were any good it would be more popular.. how much of linspire's profits go to developers... stuff

First linspire sucks is an opinion.. no argument.. if someone wants to think that.. fine.. some people probably thing ubuntu sucks too..

Second.. if linspire isn't popular (oh yeah the distrowatch that people have to click on the link for it to increase in rank, being that linspire is targeted for OEM installs and people that have no idea about linux or operating systems.. most of their users aren't going to click on distrowatch's link) why does linspires forums have (as of the time of this post) 424,830 registered members while we here have only 76,875 registered members?

And third Linspire doesn't make a profit.. as a company they are still in the red.. which means that the money they do contribute to open source projects (and they do) is coming right out of the companys bankroll.. which isn't sustaining itself on its own yet so it actually is coming out of the same pocket that some people are so worried about their $20/year going into...

sorry for the rant but I'm tired of hearing how CNR will hurt ubuntu's image.. It's not going to replace APT or Synaptic.. it's just another choice for the distribution that is supposed to believe freedom==choice..

Thanks

Matt

[Lord Illidan]

There might be some negative comments & rumors about this, but is what linspire does any different than what suse, redhat, mandrake, and other commercial distro's do, they all sell free software, they are in it for profit, but everyone hates linspire and not the other commercial distros.
There is always going to be positive and negative hype about a popular distro like Ubuntu. Remember all the hype about ubuntu being that distro with the naked people, there always going to be people that talk smack personally i say lets do the CNR thing, it will give the end users more choice, and i can't wait to read all the hype i can see the headline now Ubuntu The Distro That Got Naked And Jumped In Bed With Linspire..but ubuntu will always be a great distro no matter what the critic's say.

Can't you help feeling sorry for all those dudes who got Ubuntu in the hope of seeing naked people?

Seriously, I think this thread is a fuss about nothing. So a guy wanted to bash Ubuntu. It doesn't mean that its popularity is declining across the globe, for heaven's sake!

Plus, about the CNR, we don't even know if it will be implemented.

[Kazriko]

As someone who has used linux since ~94 or so (Slackware, then Debian, now Ubuntu,) I have no problem with CnR and even CnR on Ubuntu. More choices is always a good thing and something that at least gives you the option to have commercial software is fine, as long as it doesn't preclude free software on the system.

In fact, having competition might be a good thing for the free software. I'm a firm believer in competition being the engine of innovation. $20 per year is a fairly reasonable amount. I actually pay 3x that per year just to listen to some comedian with online streaming audio.

When I started with linux I was a high school student, and now I have a full time job. This means I now have far less time to mess with these things. I would rather play Galactic Civilization 2 than be pouring more time into keeping my MythTV setup going. I just want things to work. CnR would probably be at least somewhat helpful for me and would cost less than an hour worth of my time per year of working to pay for.

[KiwiNZ]

I think this whole subject of CNR has been well and truely thrashed to death. Until something comes out of Ubuntu HQ I thinks moutains forming from random mole hills.

Can we put it to rest until then and save some bandwidth

[Bandit]

Bandit: Falls asleep at his desk becuase of this overdone topic and starts to drool on himself..

[Lord Illidan]

Bandit: Falls asleep at his desk becuase of this overdone topic and starts to drool on himself..

Yuck!

[Bragador]

This is way too tempting... this whole topic smells like flame bait but I'll only say this :

Support open codecs instead of wasting your money for proprietary codecs.

And please, read between the words.

Goes away and will never return on this overdone thread.

[Adamant1988]

http://forum.freespire.org/showthread.php?t=1527

This was really the big thing stopping me from using Linspire or Freespire.. I'm VERY excited about this. What do you all think of it?

[deanlinkous]

I was just about to post this. It is truly amazing. I think if *spire had done this a couple years ago they would be a lot more popular of a distro.

Still doesn't correct the problems of their distro but hopefully they are working on that aspect.

It is a interesting move for them....

[aysiu]

Wow! That's amazing.
We want to bring CNR on par with the free software management systems (apt-get, SMART, synaptic, etc.) as far as costs goes, but go way beyond these for usability and functionality. I want EVERYONE using CNR.

By making CNR open source and having it be a free service, it should remove any and all barriers or objections anyone would have to CNR. Many of you here know how great CNR is, but I want EVERYONE to know.

[richbarna]

Now that is some great news for my friends who want to try Linux. I liked the way Freespire/Linspire looked only the CNR fee was a bit of a put-off. It's hard to use the Linux is free sales pitch if the repo costs money.

So, well done Linspire, I feel a download coming on.

[bruce89]

I don't like this bit:

I want EVERYONE using CNR.

[K.Mandla]

I'm willing to give it another try if it's free. I'll try to overcome my aversion to KDE long enough to put XFCE in place. ;)

[bruce89]

I'm willing to give it another try if it's free. I'll try to overcome my aversion to KDE long enough to put XFCE in place. ;)

That would be a compile from source job, as freespire has only KDE AFAIK, provided they have gcc too mind you.

[aysiu]

I don't like this bit:
Oh, that's just PR talk. It doesn't matter how good CNR gets and how free it gets... not everyone will be using it.

And if it's open source... then who cares?

[deanlinkous]

That would be a compile from source job, as freespire has only KDE AFAIK, provided they have gcc too mind you.

Actually XFCE is a fairly simple install IIRC! Also had gnome running, but not well enough to be considered simple or stable. It is possible to do all this but right now it is usually a bit ugly since the warehouse/repo is such a mess but that is on the list to get cleaned up and brough more into line with a debian snapshot so hopefully it will become a cool distro IMO!

edit-I pulled most of my install stuff straight from the debian repo but IIRC xfce and e16 and some others are in the freespire warehouse.

[bruce89]

And if it's open source... then who cares?

Depends how open it turns out to be. They should have contributed to making APT better.

Also, how is CNR better than APT?

[Adamant1988]

bruce89 in many ways CNR isn't (currently) a replacement for apt for a series of reasons... but the open sourced CNR client will have a LOT of improvements that make it more in line with apt. I think Linspire Co. is making a very good move with this action...

[aysiu]

Depends how open it turns out to be. They should have contributed to making APT better.

Also, how is CNR better than APT?
It looks a lot like the kind of online shopping you do on Amazon.com and other eCommerce sites. It has ratings, a shopping cart, different "aisles." It also allows you to install a lot of software you can't install with apt (Cedega, for example). It allows you to pay for software that costs money.

I love Add/Remove programs, but if I had to recommend either gnome-app-install or CNR to my mom... I'd go with CNR.

[bruce89]

bruce89 in many ways CNR isn't (currently) a replacement for apt for a series of reasons... but the open sourced CNR client will have a LOT of improvements that make it more in line with apt. I think Linspire Co. is making a very good move with this action...

What are these improvements? It can't be worth it if there is a better alternative already available.


It looks a lot like the kind of online shopping you do on Amazon.com and other eCommerce sites. It has ratings, a shopping cart, different "aisles." It also allows you to install a lot of software you can't install with apt (Cedega, for example). It allows you to pay for software that costs money.

Oh dear, I assume this will be ported to Ubuntu, but hopefully not by default, as I like my aptitude.

It also seems a bit much like the (flawed) windows way of going to a website, download it, install, etc.

I can see its uses for new users, but for veterans such as myself, pointless.

[deanlinkous]

It can't be worth free? :) I think CNR will have more command line options and so forth. I do not consider it 'better' than apt in any way shape or form except for one - familiarity also I would say simplicity is a good one. Now for experienced users that probably is not appealing but for new users I think it may be just the ticket!

They do have their own distro and I think they should be allowed and not criticised for having their own package manager. Once it is open sourced and so forth it should be a good candidate for any distro and I hope to see it adopted by others. Since it will be a valid free choice.

[KingBahamut]

Sign of a failing business model?

or Sign of positive growth?

[K.Mandla]

That would be a compile from source job, as freespire has only KDE AFAIK, provided they have gcc too mind you.
Aw nuts. :mad:

[K.Mandla]

I pulled most of my install stuff straight from the debian repo but IIRC xfce and e16 and some others are in the freespire warehouse.
Yay! :D

[Belibem]

This may be the solution to the ubuntu multimedia problem. If new user's are given the option to download all the needed codecs easily at a resonable fee, it would be a blast!!

Ubuntu needs legal multimedia if it has to compete with M$ or apple

[slimdog360]

Im downloading freespire now, I hope its good.

[rattlerviper]

Sign of a failing business model?

or Sign of positive growth?

Personally I think it is a sighn of both. Under current conditions if the had kept it linspire and paid for cnr they were going to quickly fall behind. they realized they needed to open it up to the user community much the way Suse did with OpenSuse. Let the community drive the development and make the $ off that.
Business is as business does.

For the record I reviewed Freespire the day after it came out on the forums...It is VERY nice, but somewhat spoonfed for myself. If someone is looking for easy free linux Freespire has just one the nomination from me!

[slimdog360]

I just installed it, first impressions is that it looks nice. Other then that its not much, the installer is terrible, perhaps the worst Ive ever used. Its not that its hard to use, its actually to simple. You get no choice in anything.
I like how everything is already installed though.

[rattlerviper]

I recant my earlier statement that this should be the recomendation of choice for newbies. I will make a post on it in a few minutes entitled dangers of freespire.

[Adamant1988]

I smell a thread about the problems with running as root (or the sudo thing) coming on.

[trivialpackets]

I smell a thread about the problems with running as root (or the sudo thing) coming on.

C'mon now. Don't recant the statement. I would still use that statement very much so, so long as I set up their system for them. But by that same sentiment, they (hardware permitting) would be doing quite fine with Ubuntu as well.

[rattlerviper]

C'mon now. Don't recant the statement. I would still use that statement very much so, so long as I set up their system for them. But by that same sentiment, they (hardware permitting) would be doing quite fine with Ubuntu as well.

You said it all right there, if YOU set it up. If I wasn't going to set it up I would recomend PCLinuxOS as everything is terribly easy...and secure by default. If someone is asking you for a recomendation of which distro to use and you know YOU are not setting it up that changes the answer then doesn't it?

[trivialpackets]

Maybe, maybe not. It's a matter of simple directions to create a user through the final step of the installer. Is it super intuitive? No, but what is to someone using a new OS. I'm not saying you're wrong on PCLinux OS. It very well may be better in some respects than Freespire. But for wireless networking, I've had more luck personally with Freespire. At least if we're talking about zero-configuration wireless networks working. Both of these OS' are excellent for new users in my estimation, and I'd feel fine recommending either one to a new user, with some slight instructions to follow, but that would be true in any case.

[trivialpackets]

Although, also to note, Freespire 1.0 is dated as compares to PCLinuxOS. It's a good thing that doesn't matter to my Dad. Tex does an amazing job with PCLinux and I have it running on my desktop. I don't think you could go wrong with either of them, or even Ubuntu to some extent, but PCLinux in many ways is easier.

[Engnome]

Still don't know if it good or bad but im hopeful it will turn out to something nice. Would be nice if we could buy stuff like photoshop or wmv codecs (for americans) in the future. :) Bad if this makes mainstream Linux dist's into just another (almost) closed OS.

Don't think I'll use it in the nearest future anyway, how about you? is there anything essential app in CNR that you want?

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4018009574.html

[~LoKe]

Please no.

[Engnome]

Please no.


"...legally-licensed" DVD players, Sun's StarOffice, Win4Lin Pro, CodeWeavers's CrossOver, and TransGaming's Cedega."

"...MP3, Windows Media, Quick Time, Java, Flash, ATI and nVidia graphics..."

Linspire also said in August that it would release the CNR client under an open source license later in the year.


Still no? :P

[Sunflower1970]

Sounds kind of interesting. I've bookmarked the site to look more into it. I think, for newer users (like me) it's not a bad idea. It might help bring users over from Windows to Linux, especially those that are really worried about having to use the terminal.

[Kernel Sanders]

The new CNR client looks awesome. Its open source, and the repo's will current and be subject to updates as regular as they can possibly make it (as has been reported)

I cant wait :p

[Enverex]

Still no? :P

Why would you possibly want Windows Media Player and Quicktime? That's just... mad. Having to pay to legally play DVDs you own is not something I or I guess most others would also not be willing to do, same applies to playing other formats. Cedega lie continually to get people to sign up to their product. ATi and nVidia graphics are free so I'm not sure why they are even listed.

Still yes?

[Josh1]

Why would you possibly want Windows Media Player and Quicktime? That's just... mad. Having to pay to legally play DVDs you own is not something I or I guess most others would also not be willing to do, same applies to playing other formats. Cedega lie continually to get people to sign up to their product. ATi and nVidia graphics are free so I'm not sure why they are even listed.

Still yes?

I hated linspire when I used it.

"Even as the Linux desktop has made strong advances in usability and capabilities, the difficulties of finding, installing, and updating software -- with each distribution requiring its own installation process -- has remained one of the most commonly cited complaints among desktop Linux users."

This is kind of untrue, since finding software in Ubuntu is easy... synaptic manager. :D

And about Cedega, doesn't it use WINE or something? I tried Cedega on a mates computer, just had a basic GUI that was slightly sluggish, I prefer using command line and WINE.

[Dragonbite]

Why would you possibly want Windows Media Player and Quicktime? That's just... mad. Having to pay to legally play DVDs you own is not something I or I guess most others would also not be willing to do, same applies to playing other formats. Cedega lie continually to get people to sign up to their product. ATi and nVidia graphics are free so I'm not sure why they are even listed.

Still yes?
Yes, because to be able to legally play DVDs and MP3s would be great for my home computer.
To be able to show people how easy, stable and inexpensive the system is while still being 100% legal would help make a point that they don't NEED Microsoft anymore.

[Enverex]

And about Cedega, doesn't it use WINE or something? I tried Cedega on a mates computer, just had a basic GUI that was slightly sluggish, I prefer using command line and WINE.

Basically they took the entire of Wine's code a while back, copied it and started charging people for it.


Yes, because to be able to legally play DVDs and MP3s would be great for my home computer.
To be able to show people how easy, stable and inexpensive the system is while still being 100% legal would help make a point that they don't NEED Microsoft anymore.

My point is more so that it shouldn't cost, and paying for it is just paying into what should in itself not be illegal and will continue to be while people shell out for something that they only have to due to retarded laws.

[maniacmusician]

Click and Run is not a good thing as most people seem to think it is...If it gets popular, the only thing it will encourage is hordes of stupid users going around the internet installing things they see on websites; yes, kind of like Windows.

If anything, click and run has the potential to just introduce malware to Linux. What, is sudo apt-get install too much work now? Even Synaptic, for those who can't handle the command line. Is that really too hard?

About the codecs, I agree that it's a problem for most people and that it needs to be solved. But we shouldn't promote the entirety of the CNR system just for that benefit. Isn't fluendo working on legal codecs? Sure, they cost money, and that may be wrong, but at least it is legal. I'm not much of a proper, law-abiding citizen, but many people won't consider something that isn't legal, so that option at least is good for them. CNR? Not so much.

[kripkenstein]

About the codecs, I agree that it's a problem for most people and that it needs to be solved. But we shouldn't promote the entirety of the CNR system just for that benefit. Isn't fluendo working on legal codecs? Sure, they cost money, and that may be wrong, but at least it is legal. I'm not much of a proper, law-abiding citizen, but many people won't consider something that isn't legal, so that option at least is good for them. CNR? Not so much.

I don't understand - what is the difference between Fluendo selling legal codecs and CNR selling legal codecs? Seems like the same (but CNR may have a nicer interface, and sell lots of other things).

Anyhow, I think this is great. I won't use CNR, neither will anyone I personally know (I think), but for those that HAVE to be 100% legal - schools, corporations, etc. - this makes using Linux possible. It is an option. Options are good.

[mips]

Here we go again, time for me to get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show...

[bastiegast]

Here we go again, time for me to get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show...

I was about to do the same thing :wink:

[Enverex]

Excuse me for caring about the way the only viable OS I see is going.

[nu2this]

Personally,I always thought that linux was all about choice. We're getting it now, so what's the problem? Worried about malware ,well yes I am but I'm realistic enough to realize that it'd only be a matter of time for linux malware. Something I'm sure would have happened with or without CNR. Besides we'll still have to enter the password to install stuff. That may give pause to some, but if we want linux to become bigger there's no way to stop the stupid.

[aysiu]

Here we go again, time for me to get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show...
For those who don't know what mips is talking about, you may want to read these threads:
Should Linspire Offer CNR for Ubuntu Users? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138603&highlight=carmony)
Kevin's CNR Poll (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138616)

[compiledkernel]

Still don't know if it good or bad but im hopeful it will turn out to something nice. Would be nice if we could buy stuff like photoshop or wmv codecs (for americans) in the future. :) Bad if this makes mainstream Linux dist's into just another (almost) closed OS.

Don't think I'll use it in the nearest future anyway, how about you? is there anything essential app in CNR that you want?

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4018009574.html

Threee simple words here.

Gnome-App-Install

CNR almost becomes a moot point as applications supported by and appearing in Gnome-app-install grow. I think based on this, in our case at least, that CNR is an unnessecary bit.

[TheMono]

Lets accept for a moment that CNR is bad, it violates the spirit of free software, we should not have to pay to play back DVD's, etc, etc.

As people have said before, isn't it all about choice anyway? Those who think the above about CNR won't use it. Those who want it will. Why is this an issue at all? It is just more choice for people.

I don't know if I'll use it, I'd have to look in to it. Synaptic works well, but I'll probably give CNR a try, since the basic service is still free.

Edit: It just occured to me, since the client is open source, surely it won't take long for someone to release a client which will simply ignore non-free software..... Which would mean that this could be fine for everyone.

[BWF89]

One thing I like about CNR is before you install a piece of software you can read users reviews, view screenshots, go to their homepage, and all right from the manager. You don't get any of those features with Synaptic (Ubuntu) or Adept (Kubuntu).

Plus promoting competition in the software distribution market would encourage Linspire to keep some of their stuff more up to date and Ubuntu devs to do the same with their repos. Competition is a good thing and makes for better products all around.

[tikal26]

Good for some and bad for others. It think that what we want is a wider adoption of Linux and most importantly Linux. Take my younger cousins for example. They use their computer for doing homework watching quicktime trailers and videos online and getting music and uploading it to their music to their players. Open office serves all their homework purposes, but the thing they missed the most was watching quicktime and window media from their site.They find now that fluendo release their codec pack that Ubuntu is as good or even better than windows. My 12 year old cousin is even buying an iriver player that supports ogg since she prefers her music files that way. If they had not beign able to play their files in their first place she would of not find ogg and now she even has all her friends installing the Xyph QT ogg package so more pepole are being introduce to open source (I know is a bunch of 12 year old kids, but is a start) My family is thinking twice about upgrading to vista since we can now legally get all the multimedia from fluendo. They are all asking themselves why buy windows or apple if you can get all that you need from Linux. the more possibilities we offer people the more likely they will be to adopt Linux and open source. By using technology like CNR and the fluendo codec pack we are allowing more people to come to linux. Lets be realistic and realize that most people don't know about ogg or flac from windows. There is only one thing missing and that is a mainstream music store for Linux and I have the feeling Rhapsody might take car of that soon.

[maniacmusician]

I don't understand - what is the difference between Fluendo selling legal codecs and CNR selling legal codecs? Seems like the same (but CNR may have a nicer interface, and sell lots of other things).

Anyhow, I think this is great. I won't use CNR, neither will anyone I personally know (I think), but for those that HAVE to be 100% legal - schools, corporations, etc. - this makes using Linux possible. It is an option. Options are good.
the difference is that CNR isn't just about multimedia codecs, it's much more. I have no problem with them selling the codecs, but I don't want all the other baggage that will come with it. Since Ubuntu is a popular distro, it could end up popularizing the CNR format, which would be a perfect opportunity for malware to get to Linux. Do you know how many people use Webshots on their Windows computers, despite it being an infective, malware ridden, POS? CNR makes it easier for people to put out executables that they know users will download and install.

The difference with the Debian system is that we have centralized repositories, and we make it clear to users that they shouldn't install stuff from outside those repos unless they really trust the source.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, these are mostly just old arguments that have been around for a while.

[loserboy]

Here we go again, time for me to get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show...

*eats some of mips popcorn*

[Dragonbite]

My point is more so that it shouldn't cost, and paying for it is just paying into what should in itself not be illegal and will continue to be while people shell out for something that they only have to due to retarded laws.I think, though, that it's a hidden cost that is "absorbed" (or rather, extracted from) the consumer when they pay for something like MacOS or Windows. Because Linux is predominantly free (as in beer) then we see the actual cost while most users don't even know it exists.

[tikal26]

the difference is that CNR isn't just about multimedia codecs, it's much more. I have no problem with them selling the codecs, but I don't want all the other baggage that will come with it. Since Ubuntu is a popular distro, it could end up popularizing the CNR format, which would be a perfect opportunity for malware to get to Linux. Do you know how many people use Webshots on their Windows computers, despite it being an infective, malware ridden, POS? CNR makes it easier for people to put out executables that they know users will download and install.

The difference with the Debian system is that we have centralized repositories, and we make it clear to users that they shouldn't install stuff from outside those repos unless they really trust the source.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, these are mostly just old arguments that have been around for a while.

I think that in a way CNTR would be as safe since it will run with linspire opensource warehouse and 3d party commercial applications and with Ubuntu repos and Canonicla repos. I guess it would be safe as long as you stay with those repos .

http://www.cnr.com/screenshots.html

[wthanna]

Choice is good. If you don't like it, then don't use it. Legal codecs are the only way you will get Linux in to businesses that need multimedia. Don't get on the bandwagon of trying to restrict user choice. I have a choice. You have a choice. The user is still ultimately responsible for the garbage they do or do not put on their computer. The whole "malware" thing brought up in this thread is mostly FUD. This is still Ubuntu Linux. CNR does not change that. It does, however give people the option of running a fine system like Ubuntu when they previously could not get away from Microsoft due to one particular program or another not being available. Choice! Choice! Choice! If apt-get, synaptic, etc. have what you need.. and I haven't personally missed anything, yet.. that I could not find in the Ubuntu repos, then stick with it.. CNR will only ADD to your CHOICES and options.

[CaptainTux]

Before I go further. I will admit to being a Linspire user since 2004 and a freespire user since it's inception. I have only recently started playing with Ubuntu at any great length and that is mostly due to the fact I like Marcel's book series and his Ubuntu book got me curious.

Ubuntu is a great distro and the commitment to freedom while at the same time creating such a large and loyal user base is nothing short of astounding and a credit to the Ubuntu community.

For some, apt-get is intimidating. I know this may sound hard to believe, but it is true. ;)

Synaptic is a great alternative. It also is very easy to use, but still lacks that consumer based look and feel those who are slowly leaving the comforting arms of redmond needs.

From reading everything I can at the Freespire forums, CNR.com, and a few mail lists, it seems that this new CNR will be a complete revamp. They will synch directly into the distro and official repository of the distro, int his case Ubuntu.

Now, there are some things that won't be in the ubuntu repositories that may be offered by CNR. Things like codecs, commercial games, staroffice, crossover office, win4lin, and maybe even things like Freespires browser suite or Lassist would be made available. Those will have to be done at CNR's end and there will also be community involvement. Kevin Carmony said he would be "Wiki-izing" the new CNR site to offer more user reviews and even an IMDB of open source developers which will let the community get a better feel for some of the heroes of FOSS.

Now, as far as the pay version of CNR (CNR GOLD), this is pretty cool. Not only do you get discounts on commercial software offerings, but you also get customer support from CNR. This is something you do not get in apt or synaptic. This is something that has appeal for not only new users, but others as well. Support for free software has been a valid business model for decades (reference Cygnus).

Why do I use CNR? For me, the one click install just is a more efficient use of my time.

I think this will help Ubuntu further increase it's userbase and offer more options to new users. And, once they start using it and coming here, maybe, just maybe, you could teach them the command line is a feature. ;)

Hey...is there any popcorn left?

[Macintosh Sauce]

I think it is a good move for Linspire, because of the upcoming Linux wars.

There will be many wars that will fill the Earth with death and destruction. Some Linux distributions will survive and some will die horrible deaths, unlike anything you have ever imagined.

[neoflight]

I was about to do the same thing :wink:

ok...now the lights are off... please turn off your cell phones and do not step on the seats in front:-\"

[Lunixfanboy]

Still no? :P

Fluendo makes available a gstreamer mp3 codec, and for 29 Euros you can get a complete package of codecs for windows items. Flash is available from Adobe (shudder), Fluendo also has a DVD product in the works, so a RESOUNDING no. This is crass commercial exploitation in the worst sense of the word.

[CaptainTux]

This is crass commercial exploitation in the worst sense of the word. No, that would be natural male enhancement infomercials. Those things don't work y'know. Not that I have ever...tried..them.... ANYWAY, if you are referring to spending money on codecs, that is an individual choice. If you are referring to CNR...it is free for the basic service so I am failing to see exploitation and with the paid version, most of what you are paying for is support which is a valid business model in FOSS.

[CaptainTux]

As a matter of fact, I hear tell of a company called canonical that offers excellent paid support for free software.

[Kernel Sanders]

the difference is that CNR isn't just about multimedia codecs, it's much more. I have no problem with them selling the codecs, but I don't want all the other baggage that will come with it. Since Ubuntu is a popular distro, it could end up popularizing the CNR format, which would be a perfect opportunity for malware to get to Linux. Do you know how many people use Webshots on their Windows computers, despite it being an infective, malware ridden, POS? CNR makes it easier for people to put out executables that they know users will download and install.

The difference with the Debian system is that we have centralized repositories, and we make it clear to users that they shouldn't install stuff from outside those repos unless they really trust the source.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, these are mostly just old arguments that have been around for a while.

Eh? CNR will only install trusted, tested software from the Official Linspire organised repo's? How exactly will malware get in? :confused:

[DJ_Peng]

I used CNR while I tried out Freespire before coming to Ubuntu. It was pretty nice, although I don't think I'd use it that much now. I still blogged it blogged it (http://www.ydwblog.com/?p=965) because I think it will be a great tool for bringing more users into the Linux fold.

[waltn]

Why would you possibly want Windows Media Player and Quicktime? That's just... mad.
Given that many of the sites I visit frequently (e.g., CNN and CNNInternational) stream only in WMV format, I would really like to have a legal WMV codec for Firefox on Ubuntu.

Walt

[ezsit]

I have tried Freespire and CNR and find both to be very friendly. Linspire charging for CNR items does not bother me in the least. The service is very good and helpful to new users.

To all those complaining about Linspire charging for free software, y'all have it *** backwards. Linspire charges for the work the company puts into the CNR method that makes software installation easy.

Sure, Linspire passes on the licensing costs of some bits and pieces (mp3 and DVD playback), but most of the cost is paying Linspire to make a free product EASY to use. Linspire charges for their service and support, not the software necessarily. People seem to forget that GPL does not mean free from cost. The GPL allows and encourages the resale of GPL software. The buyer is paying for convenience and ease of use, not the software itself, but the software made easier to use.

[Quillz]

I've used Linspire/Freespire and liked it, although I simply prefer Ubuntu. I think having a cross-distro Click 'N Run is a great idea, and will benefit everyone.

[TheRingmaster]

I have tried Freespire and CNR and find both to be very friendly. Linspire charging for CNR items does not bother me in the least. The service is very good and helpful to new users.

To all those complaining about Linspire charging for free software, y'all have it *** backwards. Linspire charges for the work the company puts into the CNR method that makes software installation easy.

Sure, Linspire passes on the licensing costs of some bits and pieces (mp3 and DVD playback), but most of the cost is paying Linspire to make a free product EASY to use. Linspire charges for their service and support, not the software necessarily. People seem to forget that GPL does not mean free from cost. The GPL allows and encourages the resale of GPL software. The buyer is paying for convenience and ease of use, not the software itself, but the software made easier to use.
i agree.

[Sef]

From the CNR FAQ (http://www.cnr.com/faq.html) page:


Is the CNR.com service free?

Yes. There is no charge to use the basic CNR.com service to find and install free open source software.

There will be charges for nonopen source software. However, if someone wants to pay to download codecs that is their choice.

As for Ubuntu's paid support for the desktop (http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid), it is $275 USD and available from 9-5. (Not sure what time zone is meant by 9-5.)

[CaptainTux]

From the CNR FAQ (http://www.cnr.com/faq.html) page:



There will be charges for nonopen source software. However, if someone wants to pay to download codecs that is their choice. Not completely true (however, I am being nitpicky here). There are some non libre applications in CNR that are gratis. There are also some commercial applications that do come with a fee. The fees for the commercial products are set by the vendor, not Linspire inc.

[macrohard]

Its just a choice, if people don't want to use CNR they don't have too.

I like the fact that it will help introduce people to Linux overall, and thats not just for Linspire/Freespire distros.

As for the idea of CNR introducing malware to Linux, could someone here give an example of how that could occur?

:guitar:

[454redhawk]

Its funny to watch some of you self destruct and claim the sky is falling because your precious little OS is trying to make it eaiser for people to make a change.

What a bunch of eliteist crap.:lolflag:

[Enverex]

The trolls really come out of the woodwork in threads like this don't they...

[454redhawk]

The trolls really come out of the woodwork in threads like this don't they...

LOL .....=D>

I am not surprised that you wold post such a comment as you seem to be the one most offended by this "intrusion" on your precious OS. IT CANT be good if YOU dont like it, right?

Anyway, keep it up. Attitudes like yours will absolutely keep new people from comming to linux and you can have it all to yourself.=D>

[454redhawk]

Click and Run is not a good thing

What, is sudo apt-get install too much work now? Even Synaptic, for those who can't handle the command line. Is that really too hard?



Why would someone want to open a terminal and type sudo apt-get install when they can click a mouse?

How is more malware going to be introduced if I click a package to install vs typing the commands to install it?

More elitist crap!

[frodon]

Please keep this thread polite and courteous and don't turn this into flame war.

[tombott]

I thought Linux was all about choice?

CNR sounds to me like a good thing.

Now I have no problem installing via the terminal or using Synaptic, but can understand why some people would want something simpler.

If CNR enables more un-techie users to switch to Linux and be able to easily install software then that is no bad thing.

If the idea of CNR disgusts / scares / outrages you then don't download it!

It really is pretty sad how against change some Linux users are!

I always thought the ubuntuforums had a pretty level headedbase of Linux users compared to over forums, but this thread has proved me wrong.

If i was a new Linux user or thinking or switching, and was reading up before hand and read this thread I think I would seriously think again. Whats next STFU Noob ?

[Enverex]

LOL .....=D>

I am not surprised that you wold post such a comment as you seem to be the one most offended by this "intrusion" on your precious OS. IT CANT be good if YOU dont like it, right?

Anyway, keep it up. Attitudes like yours will absolutely keep new people from comming to linux and you can have it all to yourself.=D>

You really have no idea do you. It's not about change or "stopping people from comming to linux". And this isn't anything to do with it not being good due to "personal opinion or "my precious OS". Although from your generalized attacks it makes me think you're not using Ubuntu or even Linux, so why are you on this forum?


Why would someone want to open a terminal and type sudo apt-get install when they can click a mouse?

More elitist crap!

...

How long have you been using Ubuntu? "System >> Administration >> Synaptic" or "Applications >> Add/Remove". Both of those give you an interface to apt-get. Synaptic giving you the entire available repo.


I thought Linux was all about choice?

CNR sounds to me like a good thing.

Now I have no problem installing via the terminal or using Synaptic, but can understand why some people would want something simpler.

If CNR enables more un-techie users to switch to Linux and be able to easily install software then that is no bad thing.

If the idea of CNR disgusts / scares / outrages you then don't download it!

It really is pretty sad how against change some Linux users are!

I always thought the ubuntuforums had a pretty level headedbase of Linux users compared to over forums, but this thread has proved me wrong.

If i was a new Linux user or thinking or switching, and was reading up before hand and read this thread I think I would seriously think again. Whats next STFU Noob ?

The objections to CNR aren't anything to do with "not wanting something simple to install applications". It's the principal of getting people to buy into seeing software on there and paying for it which can lead quite easily to exploitation and before we know it it'll end up like Windows with everything locked in with DRM courtesy of the applications that everyone starts buying via CNR. The second issue is Linspire's reputation as pointed out on several other threads.

Saying "if you don't want to use it don't download it" is much like saying that "Well gun's aren't an issue in the US, if you don't like them then don't use one" but the effect of everyone else having one is still a problem whether you have one or not. Basically what I'm trying to say is that it can still do damage to things as a whole because of the people that DO use it.

So will you all please just stop with the "omg linux elitists don't want us to be able to install stuff easily!!!11" comments because no-one is objecting to that part (although I don't see how "right click > Install" in synaptic is hard, how much easier do people want? To read your mind and install it automatically?).

[mips]

Need to get more popcorn, brb...

[lyceum]

Check out this link:

http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases.php

Sounds cool, another package manager, but easy for newbees, but how do they make money?

[tikal26]

[/QUOTE]
Saying "if you don't want to use it don't download it" is much like saying that "Well gun's aren't an issue in the US, if you don't like them then don't use one" but the effect of everyone else having one is still a problem whether you have one or not. Basically what I'm trying to say is that it can still do damage to things as a whole because of the people that DO use it.

So will you all please just stop with the "omg linux elitists don't want us to be able to install stuff easily!!!11" comments because no-one is objecting to that part (although I don't see how "right click > Install" in synaptic is hard, how much easier do people want? To read your mind and install it automatically?).[/QUOTE]


Whoa I tihnk that might be a little bit of a overstatement comparing gun control to CNR. I guess you are really against it, but I would like to know your reasons. I would just like to see why others wouldn't wan it.

[Rhubarb]

They make money by selling software like StarOffice8 from thier cnr.com website.

[lyceum]

They make money by selling software like StarOffice8 from thier cnr.com website.

That makes sense. I am guessing they will be selling stuff with this too then. Good idea branching out.

[mips]

You are missing the show, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=344771

[lyceum]

:lolflag:

Thanks for the tip!

[lyceum]

If it brings people to Linux/Gnu, it is a start. I am for freedom, which means to me that they are free to be dumb if they want. I do not think pushing pure FOSS on people is any better than pushing pure proprietary. Just because smeone is selling something doesn't mean someone else has to buy it. It's not like this thing will come standard in Ubuntu. they would still need to install the thing!

For the record, I am neutral at this point, but open to choice in this issue, and enjoying the show.

[Enverex]

I give up on this, it seems all there is going to be is trolling (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2057054&postcount=43) and meaningless ****-taking comments (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2057224&postcount=48) so trying to get any sense will be a waste of time. I guess I'll just see what happens and hope for the best, excuse me for caring.

[tombott]

The objections to CNR aren't anything to do with "not wanting something simple to install applications". It's the principal of getting people to buy into seeing software on there and paying for it which can lead quite easily to exploitation and before we know it it'll end up like Windows with everything locked in with DRM courtesy of the applications that everyone starts buying via CNR. The second issue is Linspire's reputation as pointed out on several other threads.


As already stated the basic version is free.
I really don't understand your issues!

Heaven forbid that somebody tried to introduce a standard tool that all linux users could use, developers could write and easily distribute their software across multiple linux distros!

[mips]

I give up on this, it seems all there is going to be is trolling (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2057054&postcount=43) and meaningless ****-taking comments (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2057224&postcount=48) so trying to get any sense will be a waste of time. I guess I'll just see what happens and hope for the best, excuse me for caring.

You are getting worked up about nothing. It boils down to freedom of choice. If people would like to use it then it is their decision and has nothing to do with you, period. Heaven forbid you should try and tell me what i should use to install apps with, free or non-free. The choice is mine to make, not yours.

It is for free if you want the normal stuff available via synaptic. If you want stuff like codecs, star office etc you pay for it like most people would anyway doing it legally.

Maybe they should look at an enhacement for synaptic. A more feel good & look pretty version. This version will provide you with screenshots and better descriptions. This could be turned on or off for those that don't want the pretty version. CNR to me is just a pretty frontend and people like to browse, it's like shopping to them.

Get over it. There is NOTHING you can do about it. It is here to stay. No need to scream, kick & cry about it, few are listening and do not really care as there is nothing to care about.

I'll stick to emerge & my ****-taking popcorn comments for now though :wink:

[EdThaSlayer]

The only good thing about this CNR is that it will support all formats(.rpm, .deb, etc...) but I still prefer "apt-get" since its much faster(why download,and double click if all you have to do is copy from the "ubuntuguide.org" website and paste it in the terminal?).

EDIT: I do like the idea of just click n' run! Since this will be so much better for people that came from M$ Windows to Linux :p . Personally, I would like to try this CNR and see how stable it is. :p

[DerHesse]

Why should I need it. There in not one reason why.


:-({|=

[deanlinkous]

Just a quick thought....

Please keep in mine they are trying to sell you something...sure SOUNDS good doesn't it....

This from a company that cannot turn a profit after how many years, and using this amazing CNR technology the whole time....

[CaptainTux]

Personally, I would like to try this CNR and see how stable it is. :pWqit for the revamp that is coming 2q07, IMHO. As a long time CNR user, I love it, but the current incarnation has it's issues..minor...but a pain.

[CaptainTux]

Why should I need it. There in not one reason why.


:-({|=

Technically you do not need a computer. Society lived well without them on every desktop not too long ago. It is about wanting it. If we went by sheer technical need, we would have stopped at Slackware and said...done. ;)

[CaptainTux]

The objections to CNR aren't anything to do with "not wanting something simple to install applications". It's the principal of getting people to buy into seeing software on there and paying for it which can lead quite easily to exploitation and before we know it it'll end up like Windows with everything locked in with DRM courtesy of the applications that everyone starts buying via CNR. The second issue is Linspire's reputation as pointed out on several other threads.

Saying "if you don't want to use it don't download it" is much like saying that "Well gun's aren't an issue in the US, if you don't like them then don't use one" but the effect of everyone else having one is still a problem whether you have one or not. Basically what I'm trying to say is that it can still do damage to things as a whole because of the people that DO use it.

So will you all please just stop with the "omg linux elitists don't want us to be able to install stuff easily!!!11" comments because no-one is objecting to that part (although I don't see how "right click > Install" in synaptic is hard, how much easier do people want? To read your mind and install it automatically?).

Enverex,

I am not going to flame you. I just want to be clear where you are coming from and respect what you have to say. Is the issue for you the fact that they have non libre software offered on it, commercial software on it, or something else that I am missing from your post.

With respect.

[picpak]

For the record, Synaptic isn't as easy as everyone thinks. Sure, right clicking and clicking install is easy enough, but the sheer amount of programs in there can be very overwhelming at times, especially with things like libraries thrown in.

After teaching my sister through Synaptic, I showed her Gnome-App-Install. She said, "this is a LOT easier, I wish I knew about this sooner".

That being said, I think CNR will be a nice blend between Synaptic and Gnome-App-Install.

[deanlinkous]

For the record, Synaptic isn't as easy as everyone thinks. Sure, right clicking and clicking install is easy enough, but the sheer amount of programs in there can be very overwhelming at times, especially with things like libraries thrown in.

After teaching my sister through Synaptic, I showed her Gnome-App-Install. She said, "this is a LOT easier, I wish I knew about this sooner".

That being said, I think CNR will be a nice blend between Synaptic and Gnome-App-Install.

??? They are organized in sections
Remove some of your sources...
Use the search function...
Right-Click???

App-Install is a nice tool though!!!

*spire should of come up with this multi-CNR a year ago (at least) if they wanted more demand for it IMO!

[wthanna]

I would just like to point out that this is already a DONE DEAL! CNR is going to be released and available for Ubuntu. If you don't like it, then don't use it.. but it is absolutely on it's way to release... pass the popcorn, please!

[lord_nelson]

If CNR is finally going to get non-techie folks like my Mom to use Linux, I'm all for it.

[DJ_Peng]

Personally, I would like to try this CNR and see how stable it is. :pAs I said several pages ago, I used CNR when I was giving Freespire a try and had no problems with stability. That was with installing a good number of programs through it.

Also, that was when I was a Linux newbie and hadn't discovered the ease of apt-get yet. I honestly thing CNR will be a plus to getting people using Linux for the first time. You can get no charge programs at no cost, and if you want something that carries a price tag you can do it from the same "store." For the rest of us it'll be there to use or not use, just like some of us never run Applications > Add/Remove.

[Brynster]

the difference is that CNR isn't just about multimedia codecs, it's much more. I have no problem with them selling the codecs, but I don't want all the other baggage that will come with it. Since Ubuntu is a popular distro, it could end up popularizing the CNR format, which would be a perfect opportunity for malware to get to Linux. Do you know how many people use Webshots on their Windows computers, despite it being an infective, malware ridden, POS? CNR makes it easier for people to put out executables that they know users will download and install.



Sorry fella but you got you facts a little skewed.

if you go to Cnr.com theres a diagram of how it works. It updates its "warehouse" by mirroring the respositores in Ubuntu, so all the products from all the respositories become available. Its not a case of submitting a program to Cnr an hey presto it appears, All the apps come from official distie repos be them in .deb .tar .rpm etc (obviously .rpms are not debian formats.)

So the introduction of Malware is as likely as a malware app getting directly into one of the ubuntu repo's.

Personally i think the Pros out way the cons

easy codec install, easy driver install, user reviews, legal codecs for the countries that are backwards thinking about linux being the source of all DVD piracy. The Service cost nothing its FREE as in zero cost. You can pay for membership to the service and get reduced rates of software that would COST YOU MONEY ANY WAY such as sStar Office or CrossOver Office and some games etc.

That coupled to the fact the actual client software is OPEN source also means the service will be transparant.

My reservations are that as an ex Linspire user its CnR service then wasn't so hot. It would lock up and fail fairly often. But as they say they have rewritten the whole client i will give it a whirl.

[lyceum]

I just checked out the screenshots myself. It looks good, did you notice that there were options to buy programs at the bottom? I understood they would try to make $$'s. no harm. It will be interesting. Still up in the air about it...

[DJ_Peng]

Now how did I miss this before?


Do you know how many people use Webshots on their Windows computers, despite it being an infective, malware ridden, POS?I don't know when you last looked at Webshots, but I used it when I was a Windows user (as recently as last year) and I can assure you that there's no malware riding along with it. I've used it since before CNET bought them and I've never had a problem with malware. It's a great program for changing your wallpaper. he fact that they give you new offerings every day is fricing on the cake. I only wish there were a Linux app that works as well or as easily, even without the daily pix. The closest I've seen is wallpaper_tray, which is a pain in the *** to get configured.

[CaptainTux]

I just checked out the screenshots myself. It looks good, did you notice that there were options to buy programs at the bottom? I understood they would try to make $$'s. no harm. It will be interesting. Still up in the air about it...

The fees for commercial software are set from the vendors of said software. The money that Linspire would make would not be from the purchase of StarOffice or some of the commercial games. They make thier revenue from the CNR Gold subsciption which is $50 a year. That gives you discounts on the commercial software and support for programs installed through CNR...both free and commercial products.

For newbies it resolves the age old Linux question of "who ya gonna call?" and for people like me, I likely the discounts and I have used the support once or twice.

[Quillz]

I just checked out the screenshots myself. It looks good, did you notice that there were options to buy programs at the bottom? I understood they would try to make $$'s. no harm. It will be interesting. Still up in the air about it...
CNR is an option, just like everything else. Some people like installing through the terminal, and that's great. Some will want to use CNR, and that's great, too. That's what I like about Linux; you aren't forced into doing things one way, like you often are on Windows.

[bonzodog]

If we went by sheer technical need, we would have stopped at Slackware and said...done. ;)

And I have to add, That Slackware is starting the other big distro curve - Zenwalk is based on it, and other distros are being put together based on it. We will never have anything like CNR, thank $DEITY.

There are now 4 distros based on Slackware - Zenwalk, Slamd64 (A 64 bit port), Bluewhite64, and Vector Linux.

[lyceum]

The fees for commercial software are set from the vendors of said software. The money that Linspire would make would not be from the purchase of StarOffice or some of the commercial games. They make thier revenue from the CNR Gold subsciption which is $50 a year. That gives you discounts on the commercial software and support for programs installed through CNR...both free and commercial products.

For newbies it resolves the age old Linux question of "who ya gonna call?" and for people like me, I likely the discounts and I have used the support once or twice.

That's a fair price.


CNR is an option, just like everything else. Some people like installing through the terminal, and that's great. Some will want to use CNR, and that's great, too. That's what I like about Linux; you aren't forced into doing things one way, like you often are on Windows.

Exactly. My only worry is that when people are shown a choise the only see what they are shown. If it stops people from looking into other sources... or eventually ports MS products into Linux and becomes a huge mess, there would be no difference between Windows and Linux/GNU. So, I am still up in the air. Trying not to FUD myself :)

[deanlinkous]

I always enjoy the attitude of *spire-ites everytime *spire does something. It is like they just invented the wheel...again. :)

Ever notice how *spire-ites think that only *spire is a challenge to microsoft. How the only chance linux has at being on joe-users desktop is via *spire. How everyone just misunderstands *spire and nobody "gets it" but *spire-ites....

Freaks me out how *spire-ites can use the word zealot so negatively for users who believe in free software yet they forget to use it for themselves....

Here is a quote I find funny....

I wonder if it's because even the zealots can see the writing on the wall here?
Now CNR is a act of $diety... :D

[lyceum]

I always enjoy the attitude of *spire-ites everytime *spire does something. It is like they just invented the wheel...again. :)

Ever notice how *spire-ites think that only *spire is a challenge to microsoft. How the only chance linux has at being on joe-users desktop is via *spire. How everyone just misunderstands *spire and nobody "gets it" but *spire-ites....

Freaks me out how *spire-ites can use the word zealot so negatively for users who believe in free software yet they forget to use it for themselves....

Here is a quote I find funny....

Now CNR is a act of $diety... :D

I am not sure what you are talking about? :confused:

If you were refering to my post, I really don't see Linspire as a chalange to anything. I just see their Click & Run as an easy in for proriatary software. If that happens, and everyone uses Ubuntu with MS programs through CNR, why move to Linux (no longer filled with GNU goodness)? Except that its free, more stable...etc

[Quillz]

"GNU goodness," as you put it, is just one of many advantages Linux has over Windows. There are plenty of other reasons to make the migration. How about the fact that all your preferences for every program you use are stored right in your home directory, making backups extremely easy? Or the fact that there is no registry or DLL hell.

If anything, being able to run MS programs on Linux via CNR will be a good thing for Linux. It will force software developers to take driver support on Linux more seriously, and will also encourage more people to try Linux.

[prizrak]

I don't see why all the multimedia codecs are such a huge issue, there is ffmpeg and gstreamer. I have no problems playing even HD quicktime movies with that and most of WMV's also work just fine. This is also despite me using Feisty Herd2, which is experimental.

BTW both gstreamer and ffmpeg are 100% legal as they are reverse engineered, which has always been legal.

The only issue I see is DVD playback, the best solution there is a binary plug in that meets MPAA standards and can be implemented in any video player (such as Totem).

Not to mention that the Linux community would be better off promoting free and open standards rather than bend over for proprietary ones. We already had success with getting ODF accepted as an ISO standard with people working on MS Office plug ins that support it. Not to mention MS's own OpenXML standard that is the default in Office 2007. (Yes MS sux but the standard is at least open). Apple has also moved Quicktime to an alot more friendly MPEG standard that can be implemented by others. The fight for open standards is long and tedious but is winnable and as recent events show there is goverment support for that.

[Choad]

as long as it uses apt propperly and doesnt make MORE trouble for the newbs, i can see nothing but benefits from this

it all depends on how its executed. if it unifies installation, great, if it divides people between cnr and synaptic, bad!

[prizrak]

"GNU goodness," as you put it, is just one of many advantages Linux has over Windows. There are plenty of other reasons to make the migration. How about the fact that all your preferences for every program you use are stored right in your home directory, making backups extremely easy? Or the fact that there is no registry or DLL hell.

If anything, being able to run MS programs on Linux via CNR will be a good thing for Linux. It will force software developers to take driver support on Linux more seriously, and will also encourage more people to try Linux.

Except that if Linux runs Windows software there is no need for software companies to actually create Linux software.

[Quillz]

Except that if Linux runs Windows software there is no need for software companies to actually create Linux software.
There will always be people who will keep open-source projects going.

[Choad]

me thinks that wasnt the point

even in the linux world there is still a market for closed source commercially supported software. (games, anyone?)

one of the reasons so few people enter this market, according to prizrak, would be that wine does the job well enough. as we all know, wine is FAR from a perfect solution (altho it is great, not dissing wine)

[lyceum]

me thinks that wasnt the point

even in the linux world there is still a market for closed source commercially supported software. (games, anyone?)

one of the reasons so few people enter this market, according to prizrak, would be that wine does the job well enough. as we all know, wine is FAR from a perfect solution (altho it is great, not dissing wine)

Exactly. I have no problem with paying for programs, but I want the code open or I want it at least to run native in Linux. If MS made a Linux office I would be tempted to pick up a copy just to make a point.

[Quillz]

Exactly. I have no problem with paying for programs, but I want the code open or I want it at least to run native in Linux. If MS made a Linux office I would be tempted to pick up a copy just to make a point.
With Office 2007, Microsoft is now using OpenXML by default. I believe it's an open format, so it should (theoretically?) run natively in Linux, if MS Office was ever ported.

[lyceum]

With Office 2007, Microsoft is now using OpenXML by default. I believe it's an open format, so it should (theoretically?) run natively in Linux, if MS Office was ever ported.

I have heard rummors that they would be making MS Office for Linux, but that would be a big nail for them, in my opinion.

[Enverex]

As already stated the basic version is free.
I really don't understand your issues!

The software in CNR, not CNR itself.


Heaven forbid that somebody tried to introduce a standard tool that all linux users could use, developers could write and easily distribute their software across multiple linux distros!

Autopackage. Been around for a while, works great, works on every distro. What's wrong with that?

[lyceum]

The software in CNR, not CNR itself.



Autopackage. Been around for a while, works great, works on every distro. What's wrong with that?


First, CNR is free, as basic. You can pay $50 for Gold. The software is also free unless you download software that cost $$'s.

What's whong with Autopackage? Nothing. Just like there is nothing wrong with Gnome, KDE, Fluxbox, ect... They are just options.

Will CNR come standard in 7.04? Not that I am aware, so you still don't have to use it, and if it did, you still don't have to use it.

[Enverex]

First, CNR is free, as basic. You can pay $50 for Gold. The software is also free unless you download software that cost $$'s.

What's whong with Autopackage? Nothing. Just like there is nothing wrong with Gnome, KDE, Fluxbox, ect... They are just options.

Will CNR come standard in 7.04? Not that I am aware, so you still don't have to use it, and if it did, you still don't have to use it.

Ok... I'm not sure what relevance ANYTHING you just said has to do with what I was replying to. I didn't say CNR cost or didn't cost, as I wasn't refering to it, as per what I said.

Second, the other person that I was replying to was talking about STANDARDIZATION across distros, that's what Autopackage does and he seemed to think none existed, at no point did I mention anything about options.

I'm going to cancel my subscription to this forum now and walk away before I snap because I am that close right now.

[loserboy]

as long is it's not forced on me and the alternatives stay just as well developed as before CNR then i don't see the problem.

it's obvious that the critics will be watching carefully and will scream and shout if something goes bad, so i say bring it, try it, dont like it? uninstall it.


*runs and hides behind mip's tub O popcorn*

[lyceum]

Ok... I'm not sure what relevance ANYTHING you just said has to do with what I was replying to. I didn't say CNR cost or didn't cost, as I wasn't refering to it, as per what I said.

Second, the other person that I was replying to was talking about STANDARDIZATION across distros, that's what Autopackage does and he seemed to think none existed, at no point did I mention anything about options.

I'm going to cancel my subscription to this forum now and walk away before I snap because I am that close right now.

Sorry, I jsut read what was posted. Don't take it so personal. It's going to be okay!! :D

I still maintain that standerization does not mean that we all have to use the same programs. And if you were talking free and in CNR open code, then I think they said they would be opening the code this year (could be wrong). If that is not what you were talking about either, sorry! Just trying to help :D

[mips]

I'm going to cancel my subscription to this forum now and walk away before I snap because I am that close right now.

Don't take this the wrong way but I'm sitting here shaking from laughter as I can almost see your frustration.

It's not the end of the world. Maybe take a break or walk away from this thread if it upsets you. There are more pros than cons to being here (the forums i mean).

[Choad]

Ok... I'm not sure what relevance ANYTHING you just said has to do with what I was replying to. I didn't say CNR cost or didn't cost, as I wasn't refering to it, as per what I said.

Second, the other person that I was replying to was talking about STANDARDIZATION across distros, that's what Autopackage does and he seemed to think none existed, at no point did I mention anything about options.

I'm going to cancel my subscription to this forum now and walk away before I snap because I am that close right now.
:rofl: you need a smoke

[joflow]

I think, though, that it's a hidden cost that is "absorbed" (or rather, extracted from) the consumer when they pay for something like MacOS or Windows. Because Linux is predominantly free (as in beer) then we see the actual cost while most users don't even know it exists.

Actually a fresh install of windows can not play DVDs out of the box. You need to buy a commerical DVD player (PowerDVD for instance) that comes with the codecs. Most computer companies (Dell, HP, emachines, etc) include such a program with their computers hence why you can buy a PC and have instant DVD playback capabilities...but no, Windows (atleast not XP..not sure about Vista) doesn't come with legal DVD codecs.

Sorry if someone else pointed this out before me...I didn't read all 9 pages.

[lyceum]

Actually a fresh install of windows can not play DVDs out of the box. You need to buy a commerical DVD player (PowerDVD for instance) that comes with the codecs. Most computer companies (Dell, HP, emachines, etc) include such a program with their computers hence why you can buy a PC and have instant DVD playback capabilities...but no, Windows (atleast not XP..not sure about Vista) doesn't come with legal DVD codecs.

Sorry if someone else pointed this out before me...I didn't read all 9 pages.

Vista does, XP does not, unless you upgrade your Media Player.

[joflow]

Vista does, XP does not, unless you upgrade your Media Player.

thats comforting to know...for the price it should!!

[lyceum]

thats comforting to know...for the price it should!!

lol! for the price it should come with a lot of things!

[Fingerz91]

Hey All!

Upon visiting Linspire.com , I saw the heading "CNR For All" and clicked. Sure enough, ubuntu, along with SUSE Fedora, and others were listed as distributions for which a new open source CNR client will be released. As I use Linspire at home, and Ubuntu at the office, I was enthralled and excited that the Click and Run ease would soon come to my workplace. Having to use Automatix to obtain mplayer and its Firefox plugin, EasyUbuntu for ATI drivers, and Synaptic for all others, the though of the one stop software shop coming to my favorite secure distro has me anxiously awaiting it's arrival.

[Zzl1xndd]

I myself think that its great and should be included as the main installer for all distro's I mean this is the most common question I get is how to install stuff.

[Josh1]

If you use automatix and think that CNR is a godsend, you should look in the Cafe for the threads about this.

[Zzl1xndd]

Well its not like its the end all be all I mean it is possible to live without but not every user is able to or willing to do some of the things we are to get things working. Some want a simple click n Run (pun intended)

[454redhawk]

I'm going to cancel my subscription to this forum now and walk away before I snap because I am that close right now.

Take your ball and goaway!:lolflag:


Just kidding.

Jeez, dont get so worked up.

[Fingerz91]

Well, having read this entire thread, i have to say you all bring up a good point!:D

Coming from a person who uses Linspire at home, and Ubuntu on my Laptop, I can honestly say that Linspire is not trying to replace Autopackage, or replace Synaptic, or any of that. What I feel they are trying to do is bring more choice to the way of installing and maintaining software on the major distros. If Ubuntu bundles CNR in the next release...who cares? If you dont want to use it, uninstall it by Synaptic. Right now, I use Automatix, easy ubuntu, and Synaptic, all working great together to provide me great multimedia codecs I need on my laptop. At home, (where I am currently posting from) Linspire serves as an out of the box way to be able to stream video, music, in whatever form is may come (oog, wmv, mp3 ect..) and this is perfect for a relativly new Linux user(7 months and counting).

Bottom line here is, CNR is a choice, just like everything else. I chose to use it at home to get a few games.

I dont think I would ever use it on Ubuntu when my Automatix and Synaptic and Easy Ubuntu work so well together.

Would I still keep CNR as an option?

Yup

But thats my choice

And you all have yours too :D

[enzomatrix]

With Synaptic, there's no need to use CNR.
Everything I need is in the repositories for free. There's no need to pay.

[Fingerz91]

With Synaptic, there's no need to use CNR.
Everything I need is in the repositories for free. There's no need to pay.

You dont need to pay for CNR either

The basic membership ($0, free, gratis) entitles you to anything you want.

The only thing you pay for is the commercial apps (Win4Lin, Cedega)

[lyceum]

You dont need to pay for CNR either

The basic membership ($0, free, gratis) entitles you to anything you want.

The only thing you pay for is the commercial apps (Win4Lin, Cedega)

Do you know if this will allow people in the US to pay to play their DVDs, MP3's etc's...?

[DJ_Peng]

So is most of the stuff in CNR, enzomatrix. They do have some products that carry a cost, but that cost is set by the developers of the program. For what must be the 50th time in this thread, using CNR is FREE. ](*,)

Sorry, but it's been said so many times I can't believe people are still saying there's a charge to use CNR. Jeez!

[Fingerz91]

So is most of the stuff in CNR, enzomatrix. They do have some products that carry a cost, but that cost is set by the developers of the program. For what must be the 50th time in this thread, using CNR is FREE. ](*,)

Sorry, but it's been said so many times I can't believe people are still saying there's a charge to use CNR. Jeez!

I KNOW!!! CNR IS FREE GUYS:D

I may be an Ubuntu user on my laptop, but at home, Linspire and CNR serves my computer illiterate family well.

lyceum, DVD play is supported through mplayer, kplayer, kaffiene ect.... as is mp3 playback via lsongs, (i use at home, and wish ubuntu had it...) amarok, ect..

[lyceum]

I KNOW!!! CNR IS FREE GUYS:D

I may be an Ubuntu user on my laptop, but at home, Linspire and CNR serves my computer illiterate family well.

lyceum, DVD play is supported through mplayer, kplayer, kaffiene ect.... as is mp3 playback via lsongs, (i use at home, and wish ubuntu had it...) amarok, ect..

Right, but it is my understanding that it is illegal to play DVD's here in the States, as there are codes that have to be read by the DVD players that you have to pay for.

[aysiu]

Hey All!

Upon visiting Linspire.com , I saw the heading "CNR For All" and clicked. Sure enough, ubuntu, along with SUSE Fedora, and others were listed as distributions for which a new open source CNR client will be released. As I use Linspire at home, and Ubuntu at the office, I was enthralled and excited that the Click and Run ease would soon come to my workplace. Having to use Automatix to obtain mplayer and its Firefox plugin, EasyUbuntu for ATI drivers, and Synaptic for all others, the though of the one stop software shop coming to my favorite secure distro has me anxiously awaiting it's arrival.
I've merged this with the other CNR discussion thread.

[deanlinkous]

I am not sure what you are talking about? :confused:

If you were refering to my post, I really don't see Linspire as a chalange to anything.

Nope, just referring to the way spire-ites act. I have seen many of them literally state that *spire is the only hope of linux challenging microsoft. That *spire is the only good choice for a desktop linux. And they love to use the term 'zealot' a lot for others but somehow miss applying it to themselves.

What happens when MS stops licensing codecs to *spire? No codecs - thats what. That won't happen with reverse engineered codecs. Oh and I have rarely run into any format that *spire can play that newer distros couldn't.

Search the CNR warehouse for DVD and see if any commercial dvd players are available???

So what happens when you purchase a commercial piece of software for $distro6.1 and it no long works when it is time to upgrade to $distro6.5? Do you get your money back? hmmm....

[deanlinkous]

some quotes....

My reaction is that we are privileged to see the most generous, visionary, and effective action ever taken by anyone in the history of the Linux community. Kevin Carmony and the Linspire/Freespire team deserve far more than a standing ovation for what they have done and are doing, here.

More than any other single action, this extending of CNR technology and services to the other major Linux distributions offers the opportunity to make desktop Linux an operating system that the average Windows user will be able to understand and use.



In second time (first time was when CNR was made for Linspire) Linspire made OS history...


But let them this is history in the making. They will use it in time just watch.

I am sure every computer history site is writing *spire in for this achievement.... :)


Now at last we have a small company with the motivation to take Microsoft on, had their nose bloodied early in the piece, but have earned the respect of their main rival. And they have taken all the right moves at the right time to keep the battle on their terms ever since.


My hope is that the major Distributions will co-operate in ways that allow faster and better development of applications and services available to the users, speeding up the uptake of Linux by end-users, enhance the adherence to standards, making it easier for developers and hardware manufacturers to write for 'Linux' broadly and that all that will see Linux being taken seriously by the whole computing industry from now on.

Linux, more than ever, needs to close ranks, stop the infighting, and get on with the job at hand. No need to keep re-inventing the wheel, let's share resources and remain productive. Let competition remain in areas of service and excellence without wasting energy on redundant efforts or petty squabbling.

linspire rival to microsoft? not-profitable-yet linspire is a rival somehow....ok...
adherence to standards? oh yea, I am sure linspire is a big believer in that!
this is going to result in linux being taken seriously....yea ok

close ranks, stop the infighting, adopt a supreme leader and hit the nasdaq.... too funny
re-inventing the wheel, well I would say creating yet-another-package-manager is EXACTLY reinventing the wheel - wouldn't you? Considering they have recreated CNR a few times IIRC. How many ways can you make something that calls apt?

Share resources and remain productive - the problem is that too often spire thinks sharing works only one way.

Okay, I am done ranting.....for now.

[RChickenMan]

All ethical issues aside, I don't quite understand how this is any different than the current ultra-user-friendly package management system. Someone care to explain?

[454redhawk]

Nope, just referring to the way spire-ites act. I have seen many of them literally state that *spire is the only hope of linux challenging microsoft. That *spire is the only good choice for a desktop linux. And they love to use the term 'zealot' a lot for others but somehow miss applying it to themselves.



Sounds like you have been hanging out at the Ubuntu forums.

Dont take it personal. EVERY distros users feel similar.

[DJ_Peng]

Originally Posted by aysiu
I've merged this with the other CNR discussion thread.For the life of me I cant understand why you people do that.

I actually think this is a valuable addition to this particular discussion that some of us would never read otherwise. There are a lot of people asking questions about CNR and bitching about how bad it is and how much it will cost, but here's a guy who has the opportunity to use it on a regular basis. Who knows, we may even learn something from him (her?).

[w3stfa11]

I think this will be huge. Kinda of like a download.com for *nix. It's compatible with all the major distros, too!

[hscottyh]

I think it is absolutely assume. The more choices the better. Just today a friend was talking about getting a mac, because he was tired of malware. I tryed to convince him just to try a live cd before deciding. I don't think he was listening much, until I showed him the CNR site. Seemed like it opened his mind up a little. He then asked me to bring him a live cd.

[StarKrow]

i, for one, was VERY HAPPY to hear of this (assuming it works). One of the main issues Linux has fundamentally failed to address to date is ease of use in package installation. Windows users are used to downloading .exe files, clicking on it & following a few config options to install a program. Not difficult at all for 98% of windows users. Linux, however, when it comes to package management & installation is about as frustrating and futile as trying to play a game of Scrabble with Don King and think that you're not going to have to challenge a word or two.. For new users, what is a .deb? What is a .rpm? Or what is a "tarball'? What system do you have? Debian? RPM-based? And more importantly, why should new users be forced to care? At that point as a Windows user coming to Linux, you just traded your frustration over viruses and spyware to the frustrations common to Linux program installations.

As much as I love Linux, I am not blind to its many areas that are sorely lacking when it comes to ease of use. Trying to install what should be a simple video driver turns into a ridiculous effort of file configuration. On Windows, I hit the .exe file and let the installer run its course. Over and done with. Playing MP3's, WMA's etc. can be a headache to configure for some new users.

Point is, in general, CNR offers new users the easiest option of install, even compared to Synaptic. Linspire's rebranding was essential to make apps more marketable to the masses. When i started with Linux 4 years ago it was annoying seeing the names for some apps. it was evident right off the bat, that if Linux was going to desire to be more marketable, many programs would have to shed the 'k-app", "g-app" or "x-app" naming convention for something easier for a new user to understand.

If Linux developers are not gonna agree on a simple default package management system for ALL distros, then it should stop punishing its end users and make a system of installation that makes the packaging type more transparent.

[CaptainTux]

deanlinkous,
Your overcompensating again. This may help

http://www.4starhealth.com/images/Enzyte.jpg

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Cheers, mate.

Any popcorn left? This has been fun. I just wanna watch...it's all getting circular now...kinda like a NASCAR race.

[deanlinkous]

deanlinkous,
Your overcompensating again. This may help

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Cheers, mate.

Any popcorn left? This has been fun. I just wanna watch...it's all getting circular now...kinda like a NASCAR race.

Nice pic, yours I assume....but really I had some questions...

What happens when MS stops licensing codecs to *spire?

Search the CNR warehouse for DVD and see if any commercial dvd players are available??? Why not?

So what happens when you purchase a commercial piece of software for $distro6.1 and it no long works when it is time to upgrade to $distro6.5? Do you get your money back?

Has linspire turned a profit yet?

Any idea how much money was paid to Caldera/SCO for being excused from the legal disagreements of that company?

Thanks for any clarifications...

[aysiu]

There is a commercial DVD player for Linspire: PowerDVD (http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=25183)

[deanlinkous]

There is a commercial DVD player for Linspire: PowerDVD (http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=25183)

Only if you know the link already....otherwise you won't find anything. Lots of problems with that package, search the forums. Which brings up a good question - who is responsible for support when a package does not work that you have paid for.

[3rdalbum]

Click 'n' Run = (Ubuntu's Main, Restricted, Universe, Multiverse and Commercial) + (the latest versions of the best open-source software) + (the latest versions of restricted software) + (commercial software).

Put that way, I'm surprised people are objecting to it. It's not going to break systems any more than 3rd party repos (in fact, considerably less). It's not going to introduce security threats - everything will be checked before it is packaged, and all packages will be verified with an MD5 checksum just like apt-get is. It could possibly make 64-bit users' lives easier.

It will stop newbies from complaining that they have to compile from source. In fact, it will probably mean that very few things will have to be compiled from source, and if they do, their dependencies are likely to be available as a .deb.

I think it's great. And it's great that you will have the choice of whether to use it or not if you're on Ubuntu, so you can buy a DVD player if you want, or just use libdvdcss and VLC if you don't want to pay.

[lyceum]

I think it is absolutely assume. The more choices the better. Just today a friend was talking about getting a mac, because he was tired of malware. I tryed to convince him just to try a live cd before deciding. I don't think he was listening much, until I showed him the CNR site. Seemed like it opened his mind up a little. He then asked me to bring him a live cd.

This is what I love about Linux/GNU/FOSS, it is the options that win people over. There never seems to be just one thing that does it for everyone.


There is a commercial DVD player for Linspire: PowerDVD (http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=25183)

Thanks for the link. That is quite a discount with Gold.

[blazoner]

What happens when MS stops licensing codecs to *spire?

And lose market share? Not likely.



So what happens when you purchase a commercial piece of software for $distro6.1 and it no long works when it is time to upgrade to $distro6.5? Do you get your money back?

What about all those Win-DON'T programs you bought for '98 that don't work in XP? And do they have a snowball's chance in VISTA?
There are valid reasons for preferring open source.



Has linspire turned a profit yet?

The keyword is yet. Anything is possible, some things are just less likely than others....

(WARNING:
If it works, and they open up the source code for this, expect to see Wal-Mart toss their hat into the ring with their own port of it, and maybe Google, too...)

[Fingerz91]

Right, but it is my understanding that it is illegal to play DVD's here in the States, as there are codes that have to be read by the DVD players that you have to pay for.

It is...I live in New York, and needed to get the codecs via Power DVD from CNR

Sorry

I probably should have said something....momentary brain lapse....


But I see someone else linked to Power DVD for ya

Take it from someone who knows, setting PowerDVD up to ACTUALLY WORK was a hassle

The good folks at Linspire refunded me on the spot

[deanlinkous]

They are opening the source code to the CLIENT part only, a small piece of code that only provides a connection to the server part, the server is closed and likely all the magic is contained on the server side. They intend this to be a source of revenue for THEM not anyone else. They need to client open so that it can be distributed in these distros.

Sheeeesshhh.......

Go ahead and enjoy CNR, it is like a lot of other things....sounds really good when all you hear is the good part.

[lyceum]

It is...I live in New York, and needed to get the codecs via Power DVD from CNR

Sorry

I probably should have said something....momentary brain lapse....


But I see someone else linked to Power DVD for ya

Take it from someone who knows, setting PowerDVD up to ACTUALLY WORK was a hassle

The good folks at Linspire refunded me on the spot

Thanks for the tip.

[Fingerz91]

They are opening the source code to the CLIENT part only, a small piece of code that only provides a connection to the server part, the server is closed and likely all the magic is contained on the server side. They intend this to be a source of revenue for THEM not anyone else. They need to client open so that it can be distributed in these distros.

Sheeeesshhh.......

Go ahead and enjoy CNR, it is like a lot of other things....sounds really good when all you hear is the good part.

How else can you expect them to fund such a big project?

I support Linspire in everything, since they werre the first distro I used (and still use on my desktops) and I have been using CNR everyday for the past 7 months. I use Ubuntu on my laptop, and now that I see CNR is coming, I think I might need to switch over my desktops to it as well. I hate ubuntu's start up configurations, with CNR, you click an app, and then the add to start up option. No fussing with code or any of that. CNR is going to be an OPTION, for Ubuntu and you, as the user have the right to choose. I personally would use it for maybe 2 or 3 programs, but thats about it....

And just for clarification, I live in the USA, have since the day I was born....

I guess thinking everyone here lives in the US was a little thickheaded of me, and I should have said something earlier

[rianquinn]

What really was the point of this forum. I think in some ways people start to lose grip on what Linux is all about. Is FREE your objective, or is "Linux For All" your objective. The first is a lost cause and most people simply don't care. The later, is what I think the battle should be.

CNR is simply trying to bridge the gap between the Command Line Geek and the poor Grandmother who would have used Linux if someone made it easier. I'm sorry but "sudo apt-get install" is to difficult. And Synaptic is as well. Synaptic doesn't tell you what the package is and doesn't tell you if the package is worth downloading. Most of us don't need this kind of help, but most Windows users do. CNR is the answer to this problem.

I don't think I will use CNR, but I know my parents will. And if CNR helps convert them to using Linux than great. Its choice, and thats what Linux is all about. Shuttleworth is not going to force you to use CNR, so if your a Command Line Geek your life won't change. Let the rest of the world enjoy the same OS you do. Let CNR help them.......

[lyceum]

What really was the point of this forum. I think in some ways people start to lose grip on what Linux is all about. Is FREE your objective, or is "Linux For All" your objective. The first is a lost cause and most people simply don't care. The later, is what I think the battle should be.

This is and always will be the issue. Free vs. marketable. There are good points on both sides, but they can never seem to agree with each other.

[CaptainTux]

This is and always will be the issue. Free vs. marketable. There are good points on both sides, but they can never seem to agree with each other.

Oh heck! We can't even get the vi/emacs thing settled amicably. :D

[mips]

Oh heck! We can't even get the vi/emacs thing settled amicably. :D

Thats simple. For mere mortals like myself they suck. Give me nano, nedit & kate & I'm happy. My favourite is still CygnusED from Amiga days, unfortunately it is prop. software and not available for linux.

[CaptainTux]

Thats simple. For mere mortals like myself they suck. ROFL! Good answer!

[deanlinkous]

CNR is simply trying to bridge the gap between the Command Line Geek and the poor Grandmother who would have used Linux if someone made it easier. I'm sorry but "sudo apt-get install" is to difficult. And Synaptic is as well. Synaptic doesn't tell you what the package is and doesn't tell you if the package is worth downloading. Most of us don't need this kind of help, but most Windows users do. CNR is the answer to this problem.

Really how does this tell you anything
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=2364&pg=specs
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=5433&pg=specs
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=8214&pg=specs
It tells me that CNR has packages from 2004 OMG!

How does grandma feel knowing that packages that other distros have updated due to security concerns are not updated on *spire?

Synaptic DOES tell you what a package is. You can even search by various criteria. They are even arranged.

Ask granny if she is familar with apt-get -f install because sometimes you have to run that to "unwedge" CNR when it gets stuck. Ask her if she will be comfortable removing and reinstalling CNR because sometimes that is also needed.

As I said before they make it SOUND really great....but then again the thighmaster sound really good also... :D


Its choice, and thats what Linux is all about.
If choice is wat it is all about then windows has it beat hands down, go to download.com and look at all that choice.

[CaptainTux]

The current incarnation of CNR does have some dated application. This new version of cnr will be largely feeding and synching with a given distros repositories and the whole model will also be wiki ized to allow more community interaction than it currently has. This will leave the CNR developers to be able to focus on those 10% of the applications not in a given distros repository and allow CNR to have a better focus on quality service for the paid subscribers who desire paid support.

[Sunflower1970]

...I think in some ways people start to lose grip on what Linux is all about. Is FREE your objective, or is "Linux For All" your objective. The first is a lost cause and most people simply don't care. The later, is what I think the battle should be. (snipped the rest)

There are some things I wouldn't mind paying for...what I object to are the prices to most of this stuff. They're outrageous. $20 or so for a program is one thing, but $400 on up? No way. And I don't mind donating to help keep a program (or OS running) if I like it and want to see it continue to grow.

[compiledkernel]

Again with before, I feel that the development of Gnome-app-install bridges the gap alot more cleanly than CNR does. I would rather train users to use that type of interface before Id consider moving them to something like CNR. the fact that CNR has at best "dated" packages concerns me.

[deanlinkous]

The current incarnation of CNR does have some dated application. This new version of cnr will be largely feeding and synching with a given distros repositories and the whole model will also be wiki ized to allow more community interaction than it currently has. This will leave the CNR developers to be able to focus on those 10% of the applications not in a given distros repository and allow CNR to have a better focus on quality service for the paid subscribers who desire paid support.
As I said, it SOUNDS really good!

Should we wait for the new and improved new CNR. I could swear CNR has been overhauled, revamped, reconfigured, and rearranged other times... What makes this one so special? :D

[compiledkernel]

I believe it has been updated, overhauled, rehauled, and revamped numerous times. Similar to CNR is Xandros own membership wharehouse, and from what i understand many of its users dont use it (in favor of using the debian unsupported repositories that are provided in its interface), and nor does Xandros make a very large sum of money on its membership installer bit, much like CNR exists. Funnier still is the fact that Xandros' interface is actually quite a bit more attractive, at least to me, than the way CNR looks and feels.

Quite honestly if CNR was such a great production, one would think you would see more use of Linspire as a distro. Has it not been free for the normal linspire install as it has been for Freespire? They made it free for Freespire, did this make freespire more adopted? These are the questions that occur to me as odd. Of course, one could make the same comparison to CNR and synaptic , that was made between EasyUbuntu and Automatix. Both are viable applications, but are they really needed? I dont think so. With proper training and education, CNR doesnt really "need" to exist. As Linspire is a privately held company its hard to determine what its success rates are, or if this kind of move is an attempt to garnering "more funds" for its own cause.

Of course many can say the same thing for people that install binary drivers for video cards and dvd playback , etc. As long as something proprietary like CNR exists , it keeps crutching along the effort not to make it totally on free software.

[Fingerz91]

Really how does this tell you anything
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=2364&pg=specs
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=5433&pg=specs
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=8214&pg=specs
It tells me that CNR has packages from 2004 OMG!

How does grandma feel knowing that packages that other distros have updated due to security concerns are not updated on *spire?

Synaptic DOES tell you what a package is. You can even search by various criteria. They are even arranged.

Ask granny if she is familar with apt-get -f install because sometimes you have to run that to "unwedge" CNR when it gets stuck. Ask her if she will be comfortable removing and reinstalling CNR because sometimes that is also needed.

As I said before they make it SOUND really great....but then again the thighmaster sound really good also... :D

If choice is wat it is all about then windows has it beat hands down, go to download.com and look at all that choice.

For some, the 2004 packages are fine. My family isnt as computer literature as I am, and CNR for us is a godsend. CNR rarely gets "stuck", and if it does, the History pane gives you the command needed to unwedge it.

You and I know Synaptic and how it works. However, some others curious about linux may not. I was one of them, and converted to Linspire, and I still use it. Since then, I've read a bunch of books, and use Ubuntu on my laptop, which I prefer over Linspire. Linspire however, suits my family well, and allows us easy Linux configurations among other things, like ease of startup configs. For those of you who love the command line, you dont need to use CNR. So dont.

[WarlockOmega]

OOOH!! I get to have fun now!!

Hi All! Let me say from the start that I use Ubuntu/Kbuntu at work, Xandros and Lin/Freespire at home.

So now I get to answer questions here! YAY!

After reading the forum from start to finish let me say the following....

1st CNR is FREE.
2nd CNR uses your current distros repositories, it does not ADD to them.. only Ubuntu can do that.
3rd No malware possible (unless you think synaptic / apt-get can install some for you)
4th CNR is an OPTION.. you will not be forced to use it.
5th CNR has been compleatly overhauled, this is a new and open source version.
6th The new CNR will be Wiki-ized to show noobies (like me and others) just what software they are installing via, screenshots, user reviews and wiki entries.
7th This will make installing programs very easy for new users accross several of the major distros.
8th Did I mention its FREE?
9th It will not take anything away from your system.
10th Wait.. I did say its FREE... Right?

Ok fire away! I have my popcorn ready! (I gotta pop it dont I? I need fire for that)
No Dean... not you... Ok you too I aint scared!

Remember CNR is only a new and easy CATALOG with pictures for you to install software with.. it will use only software that Ubuntu says is ok.

More positives than you can shake a stick at!

Warlock :twisted:

[BWF89]

Wait, you mean I'm not going to be able to install software from the Linspire repository from the Kubuntu version of CNR?

[WarlockOmega]

Wait, you mean I'm not going to be able to install software from the Linspire repository from the Kubuntu version of CNR?

You will have YOUR Kubuntu/Ubuntu repository to pull from. I do not yet know if they are going to give you an option to pull from "unsupported" repositories. What you will have is a standard version of CNR for all the distros in question.. with the catalog/screenshots/rateings you would expect from CNR. Have you looked at CNR.com yet? Check the faq, it will go along way in the explination.. Ubuntu/Kbuntu will still be in controll of your "Approved" packages.

Warlock :twisted:

[TheRingmaster]

I don't really know what you guys are talking about. You will not have to install the click and run program. The only thing you would have to install is the browser plugin to use the site. Here is a quote from the front page of cnr.com.

CNR.com will be a free on-line digital software warehouse and one-click delivery service designed to solve the complexity of finding, installing and managing software applications on your Linux desktop computer.

[prizrak]

You will have YOUR Kubuntu/Ubuntu repository to pull from. I do not yet know if they are going to give you an option to pull from "unsupported" repositories. What you will have is a standard version of CNR for all the distros in question.. with the catalog/screenshots/rateings you would expect from CNR. Have you looked at CNR.com yet? Check the faq, it will go along way in the explination.. Ubuntu/Kbuntu will still be in controll of your "Approved" packages.

Warlock :twisted:

OK so then it's completely and utterly useless since G-A-I and Synaptic both do the same thing and it would be fairly trivial to load screenshots/reviews into them......

[Mateo]

i don't get it. what is CNR.

[compiledkernel]

OK so then it's completely and utterly useless since G-A-I and Synaptic both do the same thing and it would be fairly trivial to load screenshots/reviews into them......

This is the point that I have been trying to drive home, Priz. No one still quite gets it.

[aysiu]

OK so then it's completely and utterly useless since G-A-I and Synaptic both do the same thing and it would be fairly trivial to load screenshots/reviews into them......
It may be "fairly trivial," but it also isn't there. You can't compare what's "fairly trivial" to implement with what's already been implemented.

And if you live in the US, there is no legal DVD playback via Synaptic or Add/Remove.

And there's no Cedega or Win4Lin or StarOffice in Synaptic or Add/Remove either.

CNR offers plenty that Add/Remove and Synaptic do not currently offer.

[Mateo]

huh, you're saying we can't play dvds? i need to try this.

[aysiu]

huh, you're saying we can't play dvds? i need to try this.
Commercial DVDs will not play in a default Ubuntu installation. The package libdvdcss2 will allow you to play those DVDs, but that package, as far as I know, is illegal in the US.

[Mateo]

wow, that's insane. how can that be?

[aysiu]

wow, that's insane. how can that be?
Read more here:
http://www.mpaa.org/Legal_cases_dvddecss.asp

[lyceum]

Read more here:
http://www.mpaa.org/Legal_cases_dvddecss.asp

Aysiu, you always have the best links for everything! :guitar:

[mips]

A nice site on DeCSS

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/

It's ok to print the source code on your outside wall apparently ;)

[lyceum]

:D
A nice site on DeCSS

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/

It's ok to print the source code on your outside wall apparently ;)

awsome

[Aranel]

Read more here:
http://www.mpaa.org/Legal_cases_dvddecss.asp

I've read in a couple different places (including the WIkipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libdvdcss) - not that I trust Wikipedia as an entirely trustworthy source :p ) that libdvdcss2 doesn't bypass the copy protection measures on a DVD and is therefore still legal until a court decides otherwise. I've been sort of confused because of all these conflicting testimonies... do you think you could clarify it?

And if libdvdcss2 is indeed illegal, there are still LinDVD Mandriva RPMs floating around on the Internet. It's legal to download and install that, isn't it? I mean, InterVideo released it to Mandriva as freeware, didn't they? Or am I missing something there too? :confused:

[aysiu]

From LinDVDs website (http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/LinDVD.jsp):
Can I get a copy of LinDVD?
LinDVD, InterVideo's Linux software DVD player, is currently available only to manufacturers for evaluation and integration. InterVideo is engaged with top computer, Internet appliance, and set-top box manufacturers to provide the highest quality DVD playback for their devices. InterVideo is committed to providing outstanding multimedia software solutions for the Linux operating system. We are actively engaged with the Linux community, Linux platform manufacturers, and DVD content providers to deliver a robust, high quality DVD software player solution. We are recruiting talented Linux developers to build multimedia applications that will make Linux fun and accessible to everyone.

[Aranel]

Aha. I guess I'm looking forward to CNR's move to Ubuntu, then. :D

My (old) laptop doesn't even have a DVD drive, so at the moment it's not an issue for me personally. But I do plan to buy a new one within the next year or so, and this will help out a bit.

[WarlockOmega]

OK so then it's completely and utterly useless since G-A-I and Synaptic both do the same thing and it would be fairly trivial to load screenshots/reviews into them......

Really? Ok so the complete noobie should have to use apt/synaptic and hope they choose the correct software? What CNR is trying to do is make it EASY for ANYONE to install software in linux. You will be able to write reviews on the packages you use, Keep a list of software that you have installed online, so it wont be lost, to make it easy to recover your system from a disaster. CNR is a tool like any other.. It will also help you sort and install software and restore in a worst case scenario. You dont have to use it. But if you DO and participate on the package reviews you will be helping ALL linux users.

From Kevin Carmony on the CNR.com forum..

"You may not need CNR, but I do. My mother does. My friends do. The 95% of the non-technical computer world does. No way are my non-technical friends going to use something like apt to find, install and update software. Not gonna happen.

There are dozens of differences between apt and CNR, not just the GUI.

CNR is different from most other software management system in many ways:

• One-click graphical install and uninstall of thousands of programs.
• Automatic update notification and one-click updating of OS components and software applications.
• Program and services management.
• One-click access to proprietary codecs, drivers and software.
• Allows you to buy dozens of different commercial programs, such as DVD Player, StarOffice, games,
accounting programs, Win4Lin, Crossover Office, Cedega, etc.
• Menu entries and desktop icons (optionally) are automatically added when installing and removed when uninstalling.
• "Charts" to easily find the most popular software programs by category.
• Search feature to easily find software programs by name, category, keywords, similar programs, author, etc.
• Clear, easy-to-understand product pages, including:

• Screenshots of programs
• User reviews of the programs
• Description, versions, specs, file size, source, etc.
• User support and help by program
• Release Notes
• Screenshots

• "Aisles" to group applications together for one-click install of multiple applications.
• Dedicated, high-speed server farms with huge bandwidth pipes for fast downloads.
• Friendly naming shown alongside normal package name.
• "Voting Booth" where users help prioritize new software to be added or updated.
• Automated, on-line Publisher Program where anyone can submit software to be QA-ed and tested for inclusion in the CNR Warehouse.
• Automatically retries and fixes any problem downloads.
• CNR has a better than 98% success rate. (The < 2% failures are usually a result of modem dropoffs, in which case CNR will can automatically resume when connected, providing the user with a successful install.)
• Many of the most popular applications are enhanced and improved before adding them to the CNR Warehouse.
• Products and services which are found exclusively in the CNR Warehouse.
• Tracks problem packages on the server automatically, 24/7, and immediately hides the product from CNR users and instantly notifies the maintainer when a problem occurs.
• Easy, one-click access to a program's source code.
• User profiles based upon machine for managing multiple machines per user.
• Local or networked software repository for quick install of same programs on multiple computers on the same network or from a CD.

CNR is like Tivo (DVR)...you don't know that you even needed it, until AFTER you have it. If someone has never used a DVR, I wouldn't expect them to understand why everyone raves about their's. If you've noticed a correlation between CNR users and "raves," maybe it's because it actually does have a lot of value? Even my technical friends find themselves hooked on CNR after they start using it.

Kevin"

Warlock :twisted:

[aysiu]

Some of these differences you list are not real differences.

These are not real differences:

• One-click graphical install and uninstall of thousands of programs.
• One-click access to proprietary codecs, drivers and software.
• Automatic update notification and one-click updating of OS components and software applications.
• Search feature to easily find software programs by name, category, keywords, similar programs, author, etc.
These are real differences

• Program and services management.
• Allows you to buy dozens of different commercial programs, such as DVD Player, StarOffice, games,
accounting programs, Win4Lin, Crossover Office, Cedega, etc.
• Menu entries and desktop icons (optionally) are automatically added when installing and removed when uninstalling.
• "Charts" to easily find the most popular software programs by category.
• Clear, easy-to-understand product pages, including:

• Screenshots of programs
• User reviews of the programs
• Description, versions, specs, file size, source, etc.
• User support and help by program
• Release Notes
• Screenshots

• "Aisles" to group applications together for one-click install of multiple applications.
• Dedicated, high-speed server farms with huge bandwidth pipes for fast downloads.
• Friendly naming shown alongside normal package name.
• "Voting Booth" where users help prioritize new software to be added or updated.
• Automated, on-line Publisher Program where anyone can submit software to be QA-ed and tested for inclusion in the CNR Warehouse.
• Automatically retries and fixes any problem downloads.
• CNR has a better than 98% success rate. (The < 2% failures are usually a result of modem dropoffs, in which case CNR will can automatically resume when connected, providing the user with a successful install.)
• Many of the most popular applications are enhanced and improved before adding them to the CNR Warehouse.
• Products and services which are found exclusively in the CNR Warehouse.
• Tracks problem packages on the server automatically, 24/7, and immediately hides the product from CNR users and instantly notifies the maintainer when a problem occurs.
• Easy, one-click access to a program's source code.
• User profiles based upon machine for managing multiple machines per user.
• Local or networked software repository for quick install of same programs on multiple computers on the same network or from a CD.

[WarlockOmega]

Aysiu,

I agree.. but you have to admit that the differences are quite a bit.
Now look again from the perspective of a first time Ubuntu user. You can Browse, read and decide to install all in one place, without resorting to a command line (scary for most noobies) and (as we contribute to the package ratings and reviews) more informative than synaptic.
This is not a threat to Ubuntu, it will help the first timers to enjoy Ubuntu even more.

Warlock :twisted:

[aysiu]

No, I definitely agree there's a big difference. CNR is not just Add/Remove programs with a pretty face.

I was just letting you know some things in that list are things Synaptic and Add/Remove already do.

[deanlinkous]

Aysiu,

I agree.. but you have to admit that the differences are quite a bit.
Now look again from the perspective of a first time Ubuntu user. You can Browse, read and decide to install all in one place, without resorting to a command line (scary for most noobies) and (as we contribute to the package ratings and reviews) more informative than synaptic.
This is not a threat to Ubuntu, it will help the first timers to enjoy Ubuntu even more.

Warlock :twisted:
You can browse, read and decide in synaptic and the cool thing is you can contribute and make synaptic better for everyone and not rely on a company back-end.

How about somone starting a wiki where everyone can contribute screenshots, reviews, and ratings to software....then we ALL benefit.

I would dare say there are but a few *spire users that have not had to resort to a commandline at one time or another. Better to get comfortable with it and rarely need it, than to rarely need it but not be comfortable with it.

[Mateo]

one thing i don't like about synaptic is that if I install a package and let's say 5 other dependencies are also installed. If I decide I don't like the piece of software and uninstall it, the dependencies which were previous installed aren't uninstalled and left on my computer, eating away hard drive space. The only way to get around this is to write down the dependencies before you install so that you can uninstall them yourself. i'd like to see synaptic find a way around this.

[aysiu]

one thing i don't like about synaptic is that if I install a package and let's say 5 other dependencies are also installed. If I decide I don't like the piece of software and uninstall it, the dependencies which were previous installed aren't uninstalled and left on my computer, eating away hard drive space. The only way to get around this is to write down the dependencies before you install so that you can uninstall them yourself. i'd like to see synaptic find a way around this.
If you're using Dapper, install applications with aptitude instead of apt-get.

Otherwise, in Edgy, apt-get allows you to remove unwanted dependencies with the autoremove option:
sudo apt-get autoremove packagename

[Mateo]

does it remove all dependencies? because sometimes another program will be using some of the dependencies so obviously i don't want those to be removed. just the move recent ones that were only used by the unwanted package.

[aysiu]

does it remove all dependencies? because sometimes another program will be using some of the dependencies so obviously i don't want those to be removed. just the move recent ones that were only used by the unwanted package.
It removes unused dependencies.

Read more here:
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/aptitude

[slimdog360]

Ive used it and didnt like it. I'll never use it unless they change everything about it.

[Mateo]

It removes unused dependencies.

Read more here:
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/aptitude

i'm guessing it sees if the dependencies are used by another package? what if the dependencies are necessary for a non-repo application, like something you compiled? would it be tagged for autoremoval. that's what i worry about.

[Monsuco]

Bad if this makes mainstream Linux dist's into just another (almost) closed OS.


Well CNR is FOSS software (or it will be if it isn't already) and it can help people choose their software. Having the ability to choose to use propriatary software is not bad. If we start forcing people to use Vorbis, then that is no better than MS trying to make people use WMA or Apple trying to make people use AAC.

FOSS is about more than ideology, it is pratical. I use Linux because it is practical, not because it is Free Software. The thousands of buisnesses that use Linux on servers will say the same thing I bet. Indeed if the tables were turned and Linux was propriatary and Windows was FOSS I would use linux.

We have the WINE project to enable people to run Photoshop, Internet Explorer, Quicktime, games, iTunes, Dreamweaver, Shockwave, mIRC, WinAmp, Office, WinZip, and hundreds of other programs.

When Real ported Real Player, when Adobe/Macromedia ported Adobe Reader, when Loki ported games, we were not unhappy. The same was true when FOSS was ported to propriatary OSes. When VLC, Gimp, Gaim, GCC, OOo, Firefox, Thunderbird, ClamAV, Sunbird, NVU, and countless other FOSS apps had Windows ports, was this bad for FOSS? No. Allowing others choice to easily use and purchase propriatary software.

There won't be a "Linux Desktop Revolution" where everyone wakes up and starts using Linux, people will transition to it slowly as software they require becomes avalible and they realize they can use linux.

[prizrak]

Commercial DVDs will not play in a default Ubuntu installation. The package libdvdcss2 will allow you to play those DVDs, but that package, as far as I know, is illegal in the US.
libdvdcss doesn't use DeCSS and was never actually rulled illegal. It doesn't bypass the protection by cracking it, it basically contains the decryption keys for just about everything.


WarlockOmega,
You said CnR will have nothing more than Ubuntu's repo's which makes it no more usefull than Synaptic or GAI.

aysiy, Warlock,
The CnR everyone is talking about is also not here yet so it does not provide functionality on Ubuntu at all as opposed to Synaptic/GAI that provide MOST of the functionality CnR WILL provide AFTER the overhaul. Ergo CnR is at this point completely useless, at the point it is released and Synaptic/GAI are still missing those features I will agree that it's a valid argument for now it's vaporware.

I used to be a newbie before (and know many people who are) and never have I seen someone confused with Synaptic and the descriptions it provides. Lack of screenshots is the only issue that I can see for just about any user.

The ONLY point of CnR is commercial pay-for software nothing else.


Otherwise, in Edgy, apt-get allows you to remove unwanted dependencies with the autoremove option:
There is also an autoremovable section in Synaptic.

P.S. If a Windows user can go to Google and type in what kind of program he/she is looking for they will be able to use Synaptic.

[kvonb]

This sounds like a great idea, just a few concerns:

Of course the user registration will be the first step, then the ever growing ads on the pages, not trusting the client to be totally anonymous and not "calling home".

And once it becomes big, it will inevitably be sold to an unscrupulous buyer for whatever purpose they see fit, (might be a good strategic buy for a certain O/S maker, gain control of Linux as a whole in one fair swoop!).

As long as each distribution doesn't start to "rely" on it, it shouldn't be a problem for the seasoned user.

[deanlinkous]

Having the ability to choose to use propriatary software is not bad. If we start forcing people to use Vorbis, then that is no better than MS trying to make people use WMA or Apple trying to make people use AAC.

FOSS is about more than ideology, it is pratical. I use Linux because it is practical, not because it is Free Software. The thousands of buisnesses that use Linux on servers will say the same thing I bet. Indeed if the tables were turned and Linux was propriatary and Windows was FOSS I would use linux.

Choosing proprietary is bad - having the choice is not. No free software would ever force you to use it - free software does not have that power. But proprietary is all about taking away your choice to choose free software and to essentially force you to use it - why would you accept them dictating that?

Linux is not that practical really. It does not fit the norms - the norms being companies dictating what you will and wont do, forced upgrades, DRM, activation codes, and just controlling your computer in general. Linux is not practical in that regard and because of that a lot of companies does not want their content on linux or if they do then they still want control and the ability to keep you using their software. Linux did not start that practical and while it has progressed it has always progressed while keeping the ideals of free software in mind - otherwise we would stop calling it free software somewhere along the line and be no better off.

If you use free software and do not care about the free part - it is like using a car and not caring for the engine... The engine is what makes the car have worth. It isn't the shiny part. It isn't the cool part. It isn't the banging sound system. BUT without it we would just have a pretty face and nothing below. (sounds like that other OS doesnt it)

[lyceum]

Choosing proprietary is bad - having the choice is not.

I could not agree with you more. As some one who sells computers with Ubuntu installed I must say that getting customers to understand that they can't use MS software on their new PC has been as issue in the past for me. When I explain that it would be the same if they had bought a Mac and that they have access to tons of free software (free as in price & freedom) all they really hear is "I get free (as in price) stuff!" no matter how I try to explain it.

The CnR issue my resolve the concerns of those who do not care about real freedom, but just want something that works. While that is a bad thing if you are against proprietary, I think it is a good compromise, as it gets more people informed and can effect future generations. I do not think that any OS that simple tried to copy MS (no offense to Linspire fans) will ever bring FOSS to the main stream. While I am still up in the air about this issue, if it opens doors, why not? If they feel better seeing they can buy stuff, I think most people would try the free stuff first.

[deanlinkous]

No I am not sure you agree.... Actually maybe I should of explained more. :) The idea that having a choice is not a bad thing. But anyone choosing proprietary hurts free software so I do not consider having the choice of proprietary software to be a good thing. I think the choice of various FREE software is the proper way to provide choice. Proprietary software is used to kil free software or at least cripple it and make it unusable. So once again, having choices is good and the choice of proprietary is good in regards to choice, but that choice is invalidated IMO because by using proprietary you have throw away your right to make a choice since prorietary software is about control, about making sure they lock you in and not have to compete fairly with free software. So choices are good, but a choice that effectively has the ability to destroy choice is not a valid choice.... :D

clear as mud now huh.....

[prizrak]

No I am not sure you agree.... Actually maybe I should of explained more. :) The idea that having a choice is not a bad thing. But anyone choosing proprietary hurts free software so I do not consider having the choice of proprietary software to be a good thing. I think the choice of various FREE software is the proper way to provide choice. Proprietary software is used to kil free software or at least cripple it and make it unusable. So once again, having choices is good and the choice of proprietary is good in regards to choice, but that choice is invalidated IMO because by using proprietary you have throw away your right to make a choice since prorietary software is about control, about making sure they lock you in and not have to compete fairly with free software. So choices are good, but a choice that effectively has the ability to destroy choice is not a valid choice.... :D

clear as mud now huh.....

Pssst.... Dude, did you hear? This forum uses vBulletin ;)

[darkhatter]

this is a little off topic, but do you feel all software needs to be free and open source, or is it being open source good enough?

[lyceum]

No I am not sure you agree.... Actually maybe I should of explained more. :) The idea that having a choice is not a bad thing. But anyone choosing proprietary hurts free software so I do not consider having the choice of proprietary software to be a good thing. I think the choice of various FREE software is the proper way to provide choice. Proprietary software is used to kil free software or at least cripple it and make it unusable. So once again, having choices is good and the choice of proprietary is good in regards to choice, but that choice is invalidated IMO because by using proprietary you have throw away your right to make a choice since proprietary software is about control, about making sure they lock you in and not have to compete fairly with free software. So choices are good, but a choice that effectively has the ability to destroy choice is not a valid choice.... :D

clear as mud now huh.....

No, I do agree, I am just willing to compromise. My view on computer use is similar to yours, I don't feel everyone has to share my view. I allow them to be wrong ;)

I think that in the past and present proprietary software was/is used to kill FOSS, but now I think they are killing themselves. FOSS evolves while proprietary consumes and implodes. The future is more my focus than the present.

[lyceum]

this is a little off topic, but do you feel all software needs to be free and open source, or is it being open source good enough?

I want to see the code and if I am going to pay for it I want to modify it. I do not care about cost as much as freedom, after all everyone needs to eat.

[deanlinkous]

I think that in the past and present proprietary software was/is used to kill FOSS, but now I think they are killing themselves. FOSS evolves while proprietary consumes and implodes. The future is more my focus than the present.

I like that line of thinking.....I like it a lot.....

[deadgobby]

What I have read. You can join CNR and that is it. I doubt if it will come with Ubie, however. It is not only Ubie, Open Suse, Fedora and so is avail for people who want to install the codecs the honest way. It is all so for people who are starting out with Linux too.
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=212
Gobby

[454redhawk]

NThe idea that having a choice is not a bad thing. But anyone choosing proprietary hurts free software so I do not consider having the choice of proprietary software to be a good thing. I think the choice of various FREE software is the proper way to provide choice. Proprietary software is used to kil free software or at least cripple it and make it unusable.

http://blog.lobby4linux.com/index.php?/archives/91-OK,-Heads-Up-Linux,-Youre-on-in-5..4..3..2-cue-music....html


.....The fiercest opposition however, came from the Foss Purists...those that break out in hives and a low grade fever when proprietary binaries are suggested for inclusion into Linux. Oh C'mon...you know, those whacky guys from Hyperventalation-R-Us? Regardless of presented fact or viable threat, to them, there is NO circumstance where Linux should embrace lock-box software.......

From a philosophical standpoint, I cannot disagree, yet pragmatic decisions are in order here...not ideas born in Nirvana. I wonder if those who struggle against this temporary eventuality do their reading by candlelight or commute to work via horse and buggy. Even if so, the rest of the community should not be made to do likewise. Freedom? Think Mint Linux.

Freedom IS all-encompassing. Take the issue to the FSF and file a GPL violation complaint if you have a problem with a distro or application. Those out of compliance will fix what is broken and we will move on. Don't beat us over the head with philosophical ideals that cannot withstand real-time stress testing. Something else to think over. If your political ideals concerning Linux may be the force that destroys it, are you still willing to fight for those ideals?

[DrainBead]

No I am not sure you agree.... Actually maybe I should of explained more. :) The idea that having a choice is not a bad thing. But anyone choosing proprietary hurts free software so I do not consider having the choice of proprietary software to be a good thing. I think the choice of various FREE software is the proper way to provide choice. Proprietary software is used to kil free software or at least cripple it and make it unusable. So once again, having choices is good and the choice of proprietary is good in regards to choice, but that choice is invalidated IMO because by using proprietary you have throw away your right to make a choice since prorietary software is about control, about making sure they lock you in and not have to compete fairly with free software. So choices are good, but a choice that effectively has the ability to destroy choice is not a valid choice.... :D

clear as mud now huh.....

As much as you'd like to think that Linux is for you it isn't, it really doesn't matter if Mark sets his foot down or whatever and says "we have achieved stable" because it isn't ever going to be stable, FLOSS is written by programmers for other programmers, the thought is, i like this code, i'll use that.

It's not a finished system and stable releases are rarely really stable, this is also the strongest point of FLOSS, you can snapshotit at any given time to make a very stable release, few do and nostly it's just to cram the most functionality into it like Fedora or Ubuntu does, testing and thesting and getting close and wham cram some new stuff into the release.

So if you want stable, you are better off with Slackwares most unstable branch /current than you are with any release of anything and it you don't mind the transition, OpenBSD is probably as stable as it gets.

Ubuntu isn't more stable than any version of Windows though and they are clearly not aiming for it either so...

[Adamant1988]

I'm glad to see that CNR is becoming available for other Distributions (OpenSuse + CnR? I could melt). I think the whole debate over CNR making proprietary solutions available is rediculous.

The fact is, proprietary technology is the standard right now. Flash is powering some great web 2.0 applications that I have adopted into my daily routine, etc. Drivers, codecs, and all that we use those every day. You people take this whole "Free software" thing way to seriously, yes FOSS software has it's benefits, but so does the proprietary design. Ignoring the benefits that one style of design offers strictly on ideology alone is, well, being just plain dumb.

[DrainBead]

I'm glad to see that CNR is becoming available for other Distributions (OpenSuse + CnR? I could melt). I think the whole debate over CNR making proprietary solutions available is rediculous.

The fact is, proprietary technology is the standard right now. Flash is powering some great web 2.0 applications that I have adopted into my daily routine, etc. Drivers, codecs, and all that we use those every day. You people take this whole "Free software" thing way to seriously, yes FOSS software has it's benefits, but so does the proprietary design. Ignoring the benefits that one style of design offers strictly on ideology alone is, well, being just plain dumb.

What could CNR possibly bring to OpenSuSE (one of my favourites, perhaps my ffavourite distro)?

[Adamant1988]

What could CNR possibly bring to OpenSuSE (one of my favourites, perhaps my ffavourite distro)?

Better. Package. Managment.

I don't know how it is in 10.2 but I know that the masses have been fighting with Yast for some amount of time now. Not to mention that CNR is *really* that easy once you have it up and running, it's just click and install. I used the basic account for a time on Freespire (before my laptop took an unfortunate 5 foot fall and had to be replaced with the windows machine I'm currently on) and I loved it. CNR is what makes Linspire SO freaking easy to use. Combine that ease of installation and the wealth of programs with the professional quality and superior design from OpenSuse and you have a real winner on your hands for the desktop market.

[DrainBead]

Better. Package. Managment.

I don't know how it is in 10.2 but I know that the masses have been fighting with Yast for some amount of time now. Not to mention that CNR is *really* that easy once you have it up and running, it's just click and install. I used the basic account for a time on Freespire (before my laptop took an unfortunate 5 foot fall and had to be replaced with the windows machine I'm currently on) and I loved it. CNR is what makes Linspire SO freaking easy to use. Combine that ease of installation and the wealth of programs with the professional quality and superior design from OpenSuse and you have a real winner on your hands for the desktop market.

CNR is a horrible idea.

If you like it, run Linspire then, no other distro will touch that with a ten inch 9-nonoxinol coated pole.

I'll fire up Yast and do a simple search in the bar, or search anywhere anytime with beagle and find me a yast solution that will bring up Yast to install it for me.

[tbroderick]

CNR is a horrible idea.

If you like it, run Linspire then, no other distro will touch that with a ten inch 9-nonoxinol coated pole.

I'll fire up Yast and do a simple search in the bar, or search anywhere anytime with beagle and find me a yast solution that will bring up Yast to install it for me.

That's why there's so many distro's using Yast.:???:

I don't know what the big deal is. I doubt CNR is going to be included in the default install of Ubuntu, Suse, Debian, or Fedora. It's simply another tool to install software, with the added commercial applications like Cedega, Crossover, Win4lin, and licensed DVD Players. For new users to GNU/Linux, CNR might be a good choice. It does offer a pretty easy way to search for packages as well as user reviews, ratings, and screenshots.

[DrainBead]

That's why there's so many distro's using Yast.:???:

I don't know what the big deal is. I doubt CNR is going to be included in the default install of Ubuntu, Suse, Debian, or Fedora. It's simply another tool to install software, with the added commercial applications like Cedega, Crossover, Win4lin, and licensed DVD Players. For new users to GNU/Linux, CNR might be a good choice. It does offer a pretty easy way to search for packages as well as user reviews, ratings, and screenshots.

*sigh*

It's ok if people want to use CNR, i really could not care less but i think it is a horrible system, how do you do dependancy checking? Simple, you get fifteen versions of every lib installed eventually and no, that won't mess things up (anyone ever had a problem with a library being newer not understanding something?).

Yast is SuSE exclusive but it is quite great.

Commercial apps have their own installers and their own premier services, CNR is not needed nor wanted for that either.

[tbroderick]

It's ok if people want to use CNR, i really could not care less but i think it is a horrible system, how do you do dependancy checking? Simple, you get fifteen versions of every lib installed eventually and no, that won't mess things up (anyone ever had a problem with a library being newer not understanding something?).

CNR is just going to daily mirror the Ubuntu servers. So if you install CNR, you will be using the same .debs as you would if you just used apt-get.


Yast is SuSE exclusive but it is quite great.

I don't care for it.


Commercial apps have their own installers and their own premier services, CNR is not needed nor wanted for that either.

But this is all in one place and in .deb formats, so you don't have to go to many different websites. Some people might find that easier.

[Spr0k3t]

The way the CNR is starting to look is like http://www.download.com where they have downloadable MSI packages to install software in windows or even mac. Personally, I don't like how download.com works but the idea is sound. Granted they have loads of software you can download but it is not the end all for every piece of software out there. I believe this is what CNR is attempting to create: A single repository for all walks of Linux.

I like the fact they are looking to put up a free version of CNR, but I hope they don't require registration to be able to scour the site for information...

[Adamant1988]

This week, Linspire and Canonical, the lead sponsor of the popular Ubuntu operating system, announced a technology partnership that will integrate core competencies from each company into the other's open source Linux offerings. This is very exciting news for both Linspire and Ubuntu users. Through this sharing of technology and working together, all users will benefit from quicker release cycles and expanded features, products and services.

http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=40

Press Release: http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=213


Thank you RSS readers.

This excites me. Linspire Co. has continually done more and more to make me happy with them as time has gone on. A lot of people were asking for Linspire to take up an Ubuntu base way back when, saying it would be better to recommend it that way. Well, here you go.

[Adamant1988]

The way the CNR is starting to look is like http://www.download.com where they have downloadable MSI packages to install software in windows or even mac. Personally, I don't like how download.com works but the idea is sound. Granted they have loads of software you can download but it is not the end all for every piece of software out there. I believe this is what CNR is attempting to create: A single repository for all walks of Linux.

I like the fact they are looking to put up a free version of CNR, but I hope they don't require registration to be able to scour the site for information...

No, but an account is needed to download anything. You can even browse the currently out-dated CNR repo for Linspire at the moment.

[Adamant1988]

I can only wonder how far this is going to set back the development of the current Freespire project.

[Spr0k3t]

Good to hear linspire is going to start using the Ubuntu core vs Debian... I took a gander at Debian Sarge release and decided to stick with Ubuntu. I personally don't like Lin/Freespire, but I do like the idea they have: Linux for the common user.

[Frak]

Yay, teamwork always gets jobs done faster, especially when your being helped by one of the best Distro's for new users.

[Adamant1988]

Yay, teamwork always gets jobs done faster, especially when your being helped by one of the best Distro's for new users.

Linspire is the easiest desktop linux gets. Unfortunately development just takes them too long, the Ubuntu code base is updated every 6 months, all they have to do is make the changes, it works.

[weatherman]

are there any actual figures out about how much money linspire is making with cnr.com?

[Adamant1988]

Since they don't have any stock holders (privately owned) I can't imagine they would bother releasing that information. Linspire Co. needs to go public.