marketing ubuntu to teens anyone?

[peanut butter]

Is anyone interested in helping create materials to try and market ubuntu to teens?

[Adamant1988]

What kind of materials would you be talking about? I worked with the Ubuntu marketing team for a while, until I had a few months worth of absence and stopped participating. I'm involved in the communities again so I wouldn't have a problem collaborating on something with you.

[slimdog360]

Ive got the slogan.

"Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo dog"

edit: or if your talking to New Zealanders, "Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo cuz"

[Stu09]

Bwahahahaha that's wikity wackity funnAy!

[slimdog360]

Bwahahahaha that's wikity wackity funnAy!

your from newy too. Small world huh

[Spr0k3t]

I'm actually interested in this. I'm constantly called to my kids schools (all three of them) as a "computer expert" to give presentations on introducing computers and software. I'd love to help put information together about Linux in general and possibly work with the schools regarding edubuntu distributions.

[mykalreborn]

hmmmm... :-k interesting...
what kind of materials?

[Adamant1988]

I'm actually interested in this. I'm constantly called to my kids schools (all three of them) as a "computer expert" to give presentations on introducing computers and software. I'd love to help put information together about Linux in general and possibly work with the schools regarding edubuntu distributions.

If you want to really get the attention of the teenage market, clothing is one of the best ways to go. Nothing like free advertising while all kinds of kids clammer for the Ubuntu shirts. Currently Edubuntu is more geared towards elementary school if I understand correctly. Probably better to gear towards stock Ubuntu.

[Spr0k3t]

Two of the three schools are elementary. My oldest just made it to his teen years, but I am still called there to do guest speaking. I think my favorite time was when I did my "This is not a modem" speech. Nevertheless, I know the different audiences. The largest crowd I did was about 800 or so at my oldest's auditorium (ages 12-14 I think). I'd like to put together a better Microsoft vs Linux speach though.

[Adamant1988]

Two of the three schools are elementary. My oldest just made it to his teen years, but I am still called there to do guest speaking. I think my favorite time was when I did my "This is not a modem" speech. Nevertheless, I know the different audiences. The largest crowd I did was about 800 or so at my oldest's auditorium (ages 12-14 I think). I'd like to put together a better Microsoft vs Linux speach though.

Edubuntu for the Elementary kids, Ubuntu for the rest.

[beercz]

Well my daughter is a "mature" almost 13 year old. She behaves like a typical teenager.

So to make Ubuntu suitable for her, and teens across the globe I suspect, Ubuntu needs to be able to:

Be able to play games like the Sims;
Have voice and video chat with msn buddies;

Apart from that Ubuntu has everything she needs. BUT, because she plays the Sims alot, and I mean alot, and she voice/video and chats to her mates on msn alot more too, it's windows for her.

I suspect I am not the only father experiencing this ....

[lyceum]

I would be willing to make time for a project like this, if it is serious and has focus. I am an artist and I am majoring in web design/marketing in shcool. Let me know how you plan to organize this and how I can help. I would recomend

1. a to-do list
2. deadlines
3. duties
4. webspace (always comes in handy)

[matt_risi]

As a member of this demographic, I thought I should put in my 2 cents. The margin of kids who are actually interested enough in what they do on a computer to even think about changing operating systems is probably around 30%, and the margin of those that are willing to fiddle with text documents and the command line to get it going is smaller still. To "market" Ubuntu, talk about it as you would anyone else, and those with the ears for it will pick up.

Alot of people my age take targeted advertising as being sort of patronizing anyway.

[Adamant1988]

The trick to taking the teen demographic is to make it "cool" to do so. Most software's that do well do well because one teen decides it's just "So cool" he has to tell his friends about it. Of course that friend thinks it's cool and tells another and you suddenly have an epidemic of whatever that trend is.

[kebes]

Alot of people my age take targeted advertising as being sort of patronizing anyway.

I understand what matt_risi is saying. If you make advertising that is obviously "teen oriented", most teens (from what I can tell) will think it is lame. Teenagers are in the midst of becoming adults, and I think they respond best to people (and advertising) that treat them with adult respect.

The t-shirt idea is a good one, because visibility is key. However I would caution against trying to make them "cool." The logo/name alone may be enough to get some people to ask "hey, what is that?" Word of mouth is, after all, the best advertising.



The margin of kids who are actually interested enough in what they do on a computer to even think about changing operating systems is probably around 30%

Is it really that high? If so, that's great! If you can get even a few students in a high school interested in something, that can often be enough. If there's one thing teens are good at, it's "network effects"!

[Adamant1988]

I understand what matt_risi is saying. If you make advertising that is obviously "teen oriented", most teens (from what I can tell) will think it is lame. Teenagers are in the midst of becoming adults, and I think they respond best to people (and advertising) that treat them with adult respect.

The t-shirt idea is a good one, because visibility is key. However I would caution against trying to make them "cool." The logo/name alone may be enough to get some people to ask "hey, what is that?" Word of mouth is, after all, the best advertising.




Is it really that high? If so, that's great! If you can get even a few students in a high school interested in something, that can often be enough. If there's one thing teens are good at, it's "network effects"!

The current status of Social networking on the web makes word of mouth advertising so easy, and more importantly, free. But If I'm walking around with my T-Shirt that says "Ubuntu" with a nice logo and a decent message on the back, people are going to ask, and that breaks the ice right there. But yes, there is a fairly decent amount of teens that know *enough* about their computer to know that windows isn't the only thing out there, unfortunately most of them think the alternative is Mac only.

[cowlip]

Be able to play games like the Sims;
Have voice and video chat with msn buddies;


Kopete can do voice/video chats on msn and yahoo I think

Unfortunately, Gaim doesn't have this :(

[Unisted]

Honestly I think beercz is right... or rather the majority of the teen market is focussed upon playing games that their friends play and chatting to their friends.

The operating system you run it on most likely doesn't matter to those with no interest in 'computers'. Those with interests in computers will already know about Linux and therefore you won't need to market it to them.

However, given that teens these days are gaining more and more influence over family decisions re: car purchasing, computer purchasing and I want this and I want it now stuff! Selling them Ubuntu as a free operating system with free networked games and communication tools might work but if their parents are buying them windows systems and they work then why change? True you could make it cool, but there's a difference between something being cool and having to back up all your files, wipe your hard drive and re-install a brand new operating system.

But, without DVD, mp3 support 'out of the box' your average teen attention span isn't likely to stretch far enough to really trying it out.

To catch the mass market at the moment, I think the best method is to sell Ubuntu systems ready to go.

Of course I've just remembered Live cds.... make it cool and throw Live cds at them!

[mykalreborn]

unfortunately there is a downside to marketing ubuntu. and that is marketing. i don't mean to sound like the avarage linux old school guy, but marketing ubuntu means being in a sence like windows or mac - although pretty remotely especially since it still doesn't get sold. i just wanted to point out this aspect of the situation.

[Choad]

I understand what matt_risi is saying. If you make advertising that is obviously "teen oriented", most teens (from what I can tell) will think it is lame. Teenagers are in the midst of becoming adults, and I think they respond best to people (and advertising) that treat them with adult respect.

The t-shirt idea is a good one, because visibility is key. However I would caution against trying to make them "cool." The logo/name alone may be enough to get some people to ask "hey, what is that?" Word of mouth is, after all, the best advertising.




Is it really that high? If so, that's great! If you can get even a few students in a high school interested in something, that can often be enough. If there's one thing teens are good at, it's "network effects"!
i would wear an ubuntu t-shirt if it was just the logo. its a cool logo anyway.

do they sell them anywhere?

[Choad]

Of course I've just remembered Live cds.... make it cool and throw Live cds at them!
especially if the feisty live CD has beryl by default, if your comp is up to it of course. that really would get a lot of people interested.

[kebes]

i would wear an ubuntu t-shirt if it was just the logo. its a cool logo anyway. do they sell them anywhere?

Ubuntu gear:
http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop/

[Adamant1988]

unfortunately there is a downside to marketing ubuntu. and that is marketing. i don't mean to sound like the avarage linux old school guy, but marketing ubuntu means being in a sence like windows or mac - although pretty remotely especially since it still doesn't get sold. i just wanted to point out this aspect of the situation.

If no one markets it, no one is going to hear about it. There is absolutely no shame in marketing a good product like Ubuntu. The Fact that Ubuntu is free provides some unique ways to advertise. But the teen market is what's important, since we (they) will be taking control of everything in the upcoming years and so appealing to our need to socialize is the way to get the word spread. But producing a site that advertises Linux and Linux computers (and looks professional) and provides some kind of social outlet is a great way to get the word out.

[Choad]

Ubuntu gear:
http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop/
they're all rubbish :(. i want one with a giant ubuntu logo on the back, and nothing else. no text. probably black with the orange logo.

[mykalreborn]

If no one markets it, no one is going to hear about it. There is absolutely no shame in marketing a good product like Ubuntu. The Fact that Ubuntu is free provides some unique ways to advertise. But the teen market is what's important, since we (they) will be taking control of everything in the upcoming years and so appealing to our need to socialize is the way to get the word spread. But producing a site that advertises Linux and Linux computers (and looks professional) and provides some kind of social outlet is a great way to get the word out.


i guess it's not a wrong thing to advertise wonderfull ubuntu. but this word - "marketing" - shouldn't be used alongside linux. i guess i'm just one of those "FOSS brainwashed" people you were talking about in the cnr in ubuntu thread. hehe ;)

[lyceum]

they're all rubbish :(. i want one with a giant ubuntu logo on the back, and nothing else. no text. probably black with the orange logo.

A guy named Jenda had some sweet shirts, black with a big white Ubuntu logo on it. They were, by far, the coolest Ubuntu tee's I have seen.

Then someone made some polos and he dropped the idea. :(

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=303557

[bastiegast]

About the t-shirts and marketing. Speaking as a teenager myself (one that does use ubuntu however) I'd say this "cool" factor is pretty important. I don't think t-shirts will help in this. First would would have to be a real high quality design and second I don't see teenagers respecting someone with the logo of a computer OS on his/her shirt. It looks nerdy per definition. Imago is important, most people wear clothes from a specific mark.
I think apple is the perfect example of successful marketing at teenagers, even though it's not specifically targeted at teens.
I think one one thing ubuntu could profile itself with is being a cool alternative. Most teens love cultures. Ubuntu could very well be presented as "that alternative OS that open minded people use". The whole freedom thing might also work very good.

[Brunellus]

especially if the feisty live CD has beryl by default, if your comp is up to it of course. that really would get a lot of people interested.
no, no, no, and NO.

The last thing I need in my life is the Myspace crowd marching into the distro complaining about how the latest xorg update or beryl update broke their X.

As to Ubuntu shirts: I wish they had them in black, with nothing but the ubuntu logo on front. That could be trendy.

But what do I know? I order my drinks legally. That must automatically make me untrustworthy/uncool.

[Adamant1988]

i guess it's not a wrong thing to advertise wonderfull ubuntu. but this word - "marketing" - shouldn't be used alongside linux. i guess i'm just one of those "FOSS brainwashed" people you were talking about in the cnr in ubuntu thread. hehe ;)
Linux is both a community thing and a business opportunity, I prefer to see the business opportunity in it, as most grass-roots things eventually turn into big businesses if the idea is solid and well executed. So I have no problems applying the term "marketing" to it.

And who knows, Maybe you are, but at least you can be nice about it.


About the t-shirts and marketing. Speaking as a teenager myself (one that does use ubuntu however) I'd say this "cool" factor is pretty important. I don't think t-shirts will help in this. First would would have to be a real high quality design and second I don't see teenagers respecting someone with the logo of a computer OS on his/her shirt. It looks nerdy per definition. Imago is important, most people wear clothes from a specific mark.
I think apple is the perfect example of successful marketing at teenagers, even though it's not specifically targeted at teens.
I think one one thing ubuntu could profile itself with is being a cool alternative. Most teens love cultures. Ubuntu could very well be presented as "that alternative OS that open minded people use". The whole freedom thing might also work very good.
That's actually entirely right, but then again, wearing Apple memorabilia is a sign of "Man, I'm cool". unfortunately the problem we have now is that Linux has a culture around it already, the Geek culture. Apple is for "cool kids".

[Brunellus]

Linux is both a community thing and a business opportunity, I prefer to see the business opportunity in it, as most grass-roots things eventually turn into big businesses if the idea is solid and well executed. So I have no problems applying the term "marketing" to it.

And who knows, Maybe you are, but at least you can be nice about it.

That's actually entirely right, but then again, wearing Apple memorabilia is a sign of "Man, I'm cool". unfortunately the problem we have now is that Linux has a culture around it already, the Geek culture. Apple is for "cool kids".
Apple is the Prada of computing. They trade on glitz, glamor, and, yes, nicely-tailored designed stuff.

[bruce89]

Ach, it'd only bring a load of badly spelt garbage here, mind you I seem to function all right for a 17 year old.

[Adamant1988]

Apple is the Prada of computing. They trade on glitz, glamor, and, yes, nicely-tailored designed stuff.

It's true. I catch myself wanting to switch to a mac occasionally, and then I take a look at the price tag.

[bastiegast]

That's actually entirely right, but then again, wearing Apple memorabilia is a sign of "Man, I'm cool". unfortunately the problem we have now is that Linux has a culture around it already, the Geek culture. Apple is for "cool kids".

That's why I think ubuntu should identify itself as just that, ubuntu. The OS is ubuntu, "normal users" don't care it actually is ubuntu linux. If we say ubuntu is an user friendly OS which does not suffer from virusses, spyware crashes and reboots and is based on linux it would be just like OSX being a user friendly OS based on the rather obscure bsd kernel (or something like that). Of course ubuntu is way more related to linux than OSX to bsd, but again that doesn't interest most of the people.

What about: "You want no more viruses, spyware and crashes and you want it for free? No were not talking about apple here, it's Ubuntu; get the advantages of a mac plus more for absolutely nothing" I realize that would need some polishing :-)

EDIT: Forgot to clarify the point I try to make: If you say Ubuntu is just Ubuntu you might lose the geek image linux has.

[Sunflower1970]

About the t-shirts and marketing. Speaking as a teenager myself (one that does use ubuntu however) I'd say this "cool" factor is pretty important. I don't think t-shirts will help in this. First would would have to be a real high quality design and second I don't see teenagers respecting someone with the logo of a computer OS on his/her shirt. It looks nerdy per definition. Imago is important, most people wear clothes from a specific mark.
I think apple is the perfect example of successful marketing at teenagers, even though it's not specifically targeted at teens.
I think one one thing ubuntu could profile itself with is being a cool alternative. Most teens love cultures. Ubuntu could very well be presented as "that alternative OS that open minded people use". The whole freedom thing might also work very good.


Ahh, my teen years. (glad they're over lol) But yeah, I remember the 'cool' factor. I think the Ubuntu logo is classy (as is the Kubuntu, and the Xubuntu one) and, although I'm no longer a teen, if there were a simple design of just the logo--maybe no wording--and it was placed in the upper middle part of a women's t-shirt, and there were different colors of t-shirts, I could see that being popular. It's something I probably would have worn.

I found this on ebay now that's pretty nice: http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Ubuntu-Navy-Linux-Open-Source-T-Shirt_W0QQitemZ140083824846QQihZ004QQcategoryZ1568 7QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[lyceum]

no, no, no, and NO.

The last thing I need in my life is the Myspace crowd marching into the distro complaining about how the latest xorg update or beryl update broke their X.


lol! When you put it like that, maybe marketing to teens IS a bad idea (just kidding.. kind of)

:lolflag:

[Adamant1988]

That's why I think ubuntu should identify itself as just that, ubuntu. The OS is ubuntu, "normal users" don't care it actually is ubuntu linux. If we say ubuntu is an user friendly OS which does not suffer from virusses, spyware crashes and reboots and is based on linux it would be just like OSX being a user friendly OS based on the rather obscure bsd kernel (or something like that). Of course ubuntu is way more related to linux than OSX to bsd, but again that doesn't interest most of the people.

What about: "You want no more viruses, spyware and crashes and you want it for free? No were not talking about apple here, it's Ubuntu; get the advantages of a mac plus more for absolutely nothing" I realize that would need some polishing :-)

EDIT: Forgot to clarify the point I try to make: If you say Ubuntu is just Ubuntu you might lose the geek image linux has.

Nah, you can't pull a switch like that. If you're going to sell Ubuntu to teens based on the community aspects of it, then you probably want to use as little actual computer talk as possible. You'd want to keep it relatively simple too.

A really good hot-spot to hit with teenagers would be DRM. Make teenagers feel like they're being restricted in their music choices (which could be true, depends on your outlook) and then offer the "ubuntu" alternative

Wrap it up with something that emphasises the human nature of the OS like "Ubuntu - By real people, for real people" Granted that's not great and it's off the top of my head, but frankly in any marketing I would avoid using the word linux as much as possible. When you say Linux that will automatically turn it into something geeky.

[bastiegast]

Nah, you can't pull a switch like that. If you're going to sell Ubuntu to teens based on the community aspects of it, then you probably want to use as little actual computer talk as possible. You'd want to keep it relatively simple too.

A really good hot-spot to hit with teenagers would be DRM. Make teenagers feel like they're being restricted in their music choices (which could be true, depends on your outlook) and then offer the "ubuntu" alternative

Wrap it up with something that emphasises the human nature of the OS like "Ubuntu - By real people, for real people" Granted that's not great and it's off the top of my head, but frankly in any marketing I would avoid using the word linux as much as possible. When you say Linux that will automatically turn it into something geeky.

That partly is what I tried to say: talk about ubuntu, not linux or ubuntu linux.

[Zyphrexi]

Hmm... Look N Feel big w00t. Showcase killer appz, Linux is T3h r0xx0rz. Yeah, like most guys are gonna be gamers, so like games are a big part. It's gonna be tough to convince a gameaholic to switch to linux just 4 t3h shiny b34ns.

Linux is cool... Linux is free... Linux isn't understood by your parents
heh heh heh

(everyone knows teens are renegades... or at least I was.)

and if all else fails, insult them for not being like you or agreeing with whatever you say. And then laugh at them for an unnecessarily long amount of time.

Also everyone loves cult stuff...

EDIT: also human beings? who cares about those things? That ain't me!

[mykalreborn]

maybe i am a little off topic but this thread is heading this way:http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=317488
i'm not saying it to bug you, but maybe you'll get a few ideas from here as well. i also gave some of my ideas in there. :D

[GuitarHero]

I don't think teens are a demographic that needs to be targeted. Teenage computer nerds tend to use linux. They have never needed assistance doing so. I am 17 and I found Ubuntu without being a computer nerd(im more of a band nerd). I would say you want to target the people who have the money and are spending it on microsoft products(parents, technologically out of touch people). Not to offend older Ubuntu users, but out of the people I know teenagers know a lot more about computers than their parents do.

[Adamant1988]

I don't think teens are a demographic that needs to be targeted. Teenage computer nerds tend to use linux. They have never needed assistance doing so. I am 17 and I found Ubuntu without being a computer nerd(im more of a band nerd). I would say you want to target the people who have the money and are spending it on microsoft products(parents, technologically out of touch people). Not to offend older Ubuntu users, but out of the people I know teenagers know a lot more about computers than their parents do.

Teens are the group to target. Why? They're young, knowledgeable, and over the course of the upcoming years will become the generation in charge. It's a little too late for the current generation as most of them have learned windows, and that was enough of a struggle for them. Think of it as "planting a seed", you get them used to it, and eventually when it comes time for them to start buying their own computers, they'll consider shopping around knowing that there are alternatives out there.

[bastiegast]

I don't think teens are a demographic that needs to be targeted. Teenage computer nerds tend to use linux. They have never needed assistance doing so. I am 17 and I found Ubuntu without being a computer nerd(im more of a band nerd). I would say you want to target the people who have the money and are spending it on microsoft products(parents, technologically out of touch people). Not to offend older Ubuntu users, but out of the people I know teenagers know a lot more about computers than their parents do.

Teens do know more than their parents but most of the time their knowledge is limited to using the internet, chatting with msn messenger and writing docs in Word. Most of them can't use google properly, most of them think text processing equals MS Word and a scary amount also thinks computer equals MS Windows.
The whole thing about young people being cyber-kids because they grew up with computer is mostly a big empty bubble.

[Choad]

no, no, no, and NO.

The last thing I need in my life is the Myspace crowd marching into the distro complaining about how the latest xorg update or beryl update broke their X.

As to Ubuntu shirts: I wish they had them in black, with nothing but the ubuntu logo on front. That could be trendy.

But what do I know? I order my drinks legally. That must automatically make me untrustworthy/uncool.
i order my drinks legally too, but hey, being older than someone automatically makes your opinion more valid.

and if you dont want to attract the myspace crowd, then you are a) being rather hypocritical because ubuntu is supposed to be for everyone, and b) posting in the wrong thread. what with this being a thread about getting EXACTLY that type of person interested in ubuntu.

and i dont use myspace.

[Brunellus]

Teens do know more than their parents but most of the time their knowledge is limited to using the internet, chatting with msn messenger and writing docs in Word. Most of them can't use google properly, most of them think text processing equals MS Word and some of a scary amount also thinks computer equals MS Windows.
The whole thing about young people being cyber-kids because they grew up with computer is mostly a big empty bubble.
Yeah, kids these days never had to migrate from one platform to the next. in MY day, we had minicomputers, then IBM PCs on MS-DOS, then Windows 95, then Linux. We only had 640kb of RAM--and we were GRATEFUL!

/me waves his cane cantankerously

[Adamant1988]

Yeah, kids these days never had to migrate from one platform to the next. in MY day, we had minicomputers, then IBM PCs on MS-DOS, then Windows 95, then Linux. We only had 640kb of RAM--and we were GRATEFUL!

/me waves his cane cantankerously

You are so my favorite mod.

[Brunellus]

i order my drinks legally too, but hey, being older than someone automatically makes your opinion more valid.

and if you dont want to attract the myspace crowd, then you are a) being rather hypocritical because ubuntu is supposed to be for everyone, and b) posting in the wrong thread. what with this being a thread about getting EXACTLY that type of person interested in ubuntu.

and i dont use myspace.
Beryl and Compiz are BETA SOFTWARE. They CAN and DO break.

I don't want a whole raft of new users to come to linux only to conclude that "it's blingy and broken and Not Ready For The Desktop." Because that's not the case.

Sure, sabdfl says "pretty is a feature," but I don't think we should be fobbing new users off with software that by the developers' own admission is not ready for primetime.

[Choad]

Beryl and Compiz are BETA SOFTWARE. They CAN and DO break.

I don't want a whole raft of new users to come to linux only to conclude that "it's blingy and broken and Not Ready For The Desktop." Because that's not the case.

Sure, sabdfl says "pretty is a feature," but I don't think we should be fobbing new users off with software that by the developers' own admission is not ready for primetime.
well it IS being included with feisty, so i suggest you get over it :)

edit: i do kinda agree in some ways tho

[Sunflower1970]

Beryl and Compiz are BETA SOFTWARE. They CAN and DO break.

I don't want a whole raft of new users to come to linux only to conclude that "it's blingy and broken and Not Ready For The Desktop." Because that's not the case.

Sure, sabdfl says "pretty is a feature," but I don't think we should be fobbing new users off with software that by the developers' own admission is not ready for primetime.

I understand where you're coming from about new users, but if a child or teen's first exposure is in school, and that's all they can use, then they will learn to adapt. Kids adapt quicker than (most) adults do to new things.

As with any age, though, there is always a small portion of people who want to others to do the work for them instead of them learning how to do it themselves.

[Brunellus]

well it IS being included with feisty, so i suggest you get over it :)

edit: i do kinda agree in some ways tho
AIGLX is being included with feisty + binary drivers (controversial) , so yeah, that takes a lot of the pain out of desktop blingification. I accept that.

I still don't want new users fobbed off with development versions of Beryl/Compiz/Project Looking Glass/Metisse though.

BEGIN POSSIBLE HIJACK

I guess I'm being selfish. I don't have a burning desire to see a wave of "zomgz, my computer is broken all I get is a black screen that says login:" posts from users who have an infinitessimally small degree of tolerance for new things.

I'm beginning to worry that the biggest hurdle we face as a community isn't the lack of marketing. It's that Ubuntu is being oversold. Users come in with unrealistic expectations, and when we tell them how things really are--Beryl is beta; $game won't run; WINE isn't perfect--they post angry "not ready for the desktop" threads.

Most of the problems arise from bad expectation management. I try to tell people who are considering a move to Ubuntu that it's a different environment, that their old Windows tricks might not work, and that there will be some period of adjustment. Call it "truth in Free Software Advocacy."

END POSSIBLE HIJACK.

But black t-shirts with the ubuntu logo would be awesome. I'd wear 'em to shows.

[bastiegast]

But black t-shirts with the ubuntu logo would be awesome. I'd wear 'em to shows.

How about a subtle black and white logo?:guitar: Anyway, it's a matter of personal preference I think.

[cowlip]

I understand where you're coming from about new users, but if a child or teen's first exposure is in school, and that's all they can use, then they will learn to adapt. Kids adapt quicker than (most) adults do to new things.
.

Yeah, definitely need more Edubuntu Linux in schools. I just got a fundraiser flyer from my elementary school and I'm wondering how much of their budget is taken up by Windows licensing and other proprietary software.

[.t.]

Bah. Teens don't need special marketing. They can read and interpret just like anyone else, too. They are all people.

[Choad]

AIGLX is being included with feisty + binary drivers (controversial) , so yeah, that takes a lot of the pain out of desktop blingification. I accept that.

I still don't want new users fobbed off with development versions of Beryl/Compiz/Project Looking Glass/Metisse though.

BEGIN POSSIBLE HIJACK

I guess I'm being selfish. I don't have a burning desire to see a wave of "zomgz, my computer is broken all I get is a black screen that says login:" posts from users who have an infinitessimally small degree of tolerance for new things.

I'm beginning to worry that the biggest hurdle we face as a community isn't the lack of marketing. It's that Ubuntu is being oversold. Users come in with unrealistic expectations, and when we tell them how things really are--Beryl is beta; $game won't run; WINE isn't perfect--they post angry "not ready for the desktop" threads.

Most of the problems arise from bad expectation management. I try to tell people who are considering a move to Ubuntu that it's a different environment, that their old Windows tricks might not work, and that there will be some period of adjustment. Call it "truth in Free Software Advocacy."

END POSSIBLE HIJACK.

But black t-shirts with the ubuntu logo would be awesome. I'd wear 'em to shows.
yep, it would suck, but its not their fault they were misinformed. its elitest to think that everyone should know the score straight away. if they were told by their friend how awesome ubuntu is, its not their fault the friend overhyped it, and made it appear to be everythign to all people.

and i can only see it getting worse and worse with every release, because ubuntu will be getting better and better, so more people will be coming here hearing the hype and expecting perfection

we will just have to be more and more patient. failing that, get trigger happy with the "ban" button

[Brunellus]

yep, it would suck, but its not their fault they were misinformed. its elitest to think that everyone should know the score straight away. if they were told by their friend how awesome ubuntu is, its not their fault the friend overhyped it, and made it appear to be everythign to all people.

and i can only see it getting worse and worse with every release, because ubuntu will be getting better and better, so more people will be coming here hearing the hype and expecting perfection

we will just have to be more and more patient. failing that, get trigger happy with the "ban" button
But people should have a better idea of what to expect. The people who give them that idea--that's us!--have to give them the straight dope.

It's not a new user's fault that he was overhyped. It's the overhyper's problem.

[bruce89]

Sure, sabdfl says "pretty is a feature," but I don't think we should be fobbing new users off with software that by the developers' own admission is not ready for primetime.

That's probably why composite-by-default (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/composite-by-default) was deferred.

[seijuro]

trying to make it "cool" is a bad idea because the notion of cool is different for each person and also is linked either to a time frame or a fad in that what is cool today may not be cool tomorrow. Take the common phrase "that's so <insert time frame>" for example. Teens may still be legally minors but really most are starting to think of themselves as young adults so respecting that would go much farther. Also I think facts and information are much better advertising than trends and fads. Like for example have a shirt with the Ubuntu logo on the front and on the back have some text with either info or a fact like "Fact #96: Ubuntu can install 20,000+ programs from a central repository with a few simple clicks." or perhaps the definition of the African word "Ubuntu".

[Adamant1988]

trying to make it "cool" is a bad idea because the notion of cool is different for each person and also is linked either to a time frame or a fad in that what is cool today may not be cool tomorrow. Take the common phrase "that's so <insert time frame>" for example. Teens may still be legally minors but really most are starting to think of themselves as young adults so respecting that would go much farther. Also I think facts and information are much better advertising than trends and fads. Like for example have a shirt with the Ubuntu logo on the front and on the back have some text with either info or a fact like "Fact #96: Ubuntu can install 20,000+ programs from a central repository with a few simple clicks." or perhaps the definition of the African word "Ubuntu".

Which would be a massive plus if you knew anything about computer past the latest social networking site, and IM client. Fads and trends have a high rate of effectiveness, personally I think (semi-)professionaly done YouTube ads would be relatively effective, as people would no doubt embed those in all kinds of places. I know I would put one on my myspace and my blogs. Again, web 2.0 offers amazing advertising potential for absolutely free. Starting Official FaceBook groups, Creating Myspace Accounts, etc. etc. is a good way to get to the teenage demographic. Youtube makes excellent FREE video hosting space, post a 45 second advertisement for free.

I still think avoiding the word Linux is key. Apple doesn't stress that Mac OSX has a BSD base to it, why should Ubuntu stress it's Linux roots? Anyone who spends 30 seconds on google is going to find out that Ubuntu is linux, so why bother telling them that? let their curiousity get them involved.

[vincentvee]

I still think avoiding the word Linux is key. Apple doesn't stress that Mac OSX has a BSD base to it, why should Ubuntu stress it's Linux roots? Anyone who spends 30 seconds on google is going to find out that Ubuntu is linux, so why bother telling them that? let their curiousity get them involved.
totally agree with that idea, i know a lot of people who won't look at linux because it is linux, let them follow their curiosity

[cowlip]

totally agree with that idea, i know a lot of people who won't look at linux because it is linux, let them follow their curiosity

you know what? That's totally true. I mentionned Ubuntu *LINUX* in a forum once, and some got on my case and started talking about compiling a kernel everytime a hardware changed...

[zubrug]

What's the small print going to say?

"but it sucks for games!"

[Adamant1988]

What's the small print going to say?

"but it sucks for games!"

Meh, play some flash games, that's what I say.

[Polygon]

video game support is a must. Althought it might work for people who play games like World of Warcraft/doom/unreal/quake, but fans of any other games are not going to even give it a chance. (unless they dual boot, but then it gets kinda complicated)

[Adamant1988]

video game support is a must. Althought it might work for people who play games like World of Warcraft/doom/unreal/quake, but fans of any other games are not going to even give it a chance. (unless they dual boot, but then it gets kinda complicated)

I think part of the solution here would be to push innovative new games that actually work on Linux.

For example: http://www.bloodtoll.com/


Blood Toll is a new video game that allows gamers from around the world to compete online for real money. Currently we are only in beta testing phase but please feel free to download the game and give it a try. For beta testing we are using an older game engine with outdated graphics, but the game play is fun and you will get a sneak peak of what Blood Toll is all about.


There aren't many native games, but pushing other solutions is something we should do.

[Polygon]

hmm thanks for the link, ill try that game out (i hope i dont have to actually pay money to play it though...)

edit: it requires my phone number and address for me to sign up for an account... no thank you. This should not be required if you are not going to pay money for the game. not to mention i dont feel comfortable giving my address on the internet anywhere...

but sometimes these community made videos are cool and are, but i find a majority of them boring (mostly because of the lack of players...)

[Adamant1988]

I haven't signed up for it. Eventually it will be a pay-to-play game, with real money on the line. It looks like it could be very addicting, haha.

[matt_risi]

Being in university, I get at least one person per day asking about my laptop, as i use Beryl. Today a kid beside me was looking wide-eyed at my computer as I was using the beryl cube, and asked me how much RAM I had. I told him I've got 512, and he seemed immediately sold. Told me he has a dual-core centrino laptop with a gig of ram. Prime real estate.

However, I didn't lie to the kid. I told him that he has to be prepared to deal with setting up the OS and such, especially with a laptop using wireless, etc. He still seemed pretty enthused, especially when I told him it would co-exist with windows just fine.

..then the kid to my right looked at me condescendingly, away from his relatively new, yet very large laptop running Windows and said "Eww.. Linux." No word of a lie. Funny part is, his resolution had to have been 800x600, and he had windows genuine update bugging him periodically as he types his notes up in Notepad. Probably a botched install of a pirated version of Windows.

I'm still laughing inside.

[slimdog360]

..then the kid to my right looked at me condescendingly, away from his relatively new, yet very large laptop running Windows and said "Eww.. Linux." No word of a lie. Funny part is, his resolution had to have been 800x600, and he had windows genuine update bugging him periodically as he types his notes up in Notepad. Probably a botched install of a pirated version of Windows.

I'm still laughing inside.

You should have backhanded him and said, "Eay, shutupa you face"

[Nikron]

I'm a teen and I like spiinnnnnny cube! I can play most of the games I used to play on windows, but the games I play are a MUD and Warcraft 3. As for marketing to teens, give out free cool looking shirts. I'll wear one.

[Fascination]

A photo of Jack Sparrow drinking a mug of coffee with the ubuntu logo on the side would do wonders. :P

[IgnacioMiller]

Ever since I used DSL on my pen drive in the computer lab a few weeks ago, I have installed Linux on 5 of my friend's computers. They love the responsiveness of the desktop, the variety of software and the overall ease of use. In my opinion the best way to advertise to teens (like myself) is to just use it around them, wear t-shirts and talk about it. It worked wonderfully for me.

[beercz]

Honestly I think beercz is right... or rather the majority of the teen market is focussed upon playing games that their friends play and chatting to their friends.

The operating system you run it on most likely doesn't matter to those with no interest in 'computers'. Those with interests in computers will already know about Linux and therefore you won't need to market it to them.

However, given that teens these days are gaining more and more influence over family decisions re: car purchasing, computer purchasing and I want this and I want it now stuff! Selling them Ubuntu as a free operating system with free networked games and communication tools might work but if their parents are buying them windows systems and they work then why change? True you could make it cool, but there's a difference between something being cool and having to back up all your files, wipe your hard drive and re-install a brand new operating system.

But, without DVD, mp3 support 'out of the box' your average teen attention span isn't likely to stretch far enough to really trying it out.

To catch the mass market at the moment, I think the best method is to sell Ubuntu systems ready to go.

Of course I've just remembered Live cds.... make it cool and throw Live cds at them!

Yep mp3, itunes, dvd, ipod etc. definately. Going back to the msn thing, nudges, winks, custom emoticons will also help sway teens - in other words 100% msn compatibility

[matt_risi]

Werd.

[Motoxrdude]

Well, with all these videos going around on the internet of beryl and xgl/aiglx ubuntu is practically selling itself!

[peanut butter]

well a problem i have had with convincing teens at my school to use linux, is that they dont have their own computers, they use their parents because they dont really care what it looks like as long as they can go on youtube and world of warcraft. in a way, yes teenagers are rebelious, they will do almost anything to "stick it to the man". What I was thinking was to get some flyers and scripts together of ideas on how to convince your friends to use ubuntu. I understand that people want to know what is wrong when a program says Error, and living in Seattle (close to Redmond) makes life even harder. I have gotten many calls about small problems like "My wifi dosnt work", and the Windows wifi config is all messed up. whenever i tell kids about Ubuntu, they shun me. I guess its partly my fault for saying Linux every other sentence, but this is what i wanted to figure out how to do.

[matt_risi]

That's another reason I don't push too hard.. I do NOT wanna support people who have problems with Ubuntu.

What a mess!

[zubrug]

it has a cultish sort of community in a way,teens like that, don't push anything on teens.
let beryl, security and PRIVACY etc. drive this trian.
Anyone remember the quote that george bush used to descibe linux (I cannot remember it exactly), that would make a great t-shirt logo.

[Adamant1988]

well a problem i have had with convincing teens at my school to use linux, is that they dont have their own computers, they use their parents because they dont really care what it looks like as long as they can go on youtube and world of warcraft. in a way, yes teenagers are rebelious, they will do almost anything to "stick it to the man". What I was thinking was to get some flyers and scripts together of ideas on how to convince your friends to use ubuntu. I understand that people want to know what is wrong when a program says Error, and living in Seattle (close to Redmond) makes life even harder. I have gotten many calls about small problems like "My wifi dosnt work", and the Windows wifi config is all messed up. whenever i tell kids about Ubuntu, they shun me. I guess its partly my fault for saying Linux every other sentence, but this is what i wanted to figure out how to do.

I find that subtle poking is more effective than fully coming and saying "Linux is better". You just bait them, and then switch it up on them. Wait for them to complain about an aspect of windows where Linux is actually improved, wait for them to say things like "Oh man, software costs so much, I'm probably just going to download it on limewire" at that point you can introduce them to open source and kind of get them used to the idea, and so forth.

[juxtaposed]

A really good hot-spot to hit with teenagers would be DRM. Make teenagers feel like they're being restricted in their music choices (which could be true, depends on your outlook) and then offer the "ubuntu" alternative

Nah.

Most teenagers have no idea what DRM is. They download a few singles from limewire and buy whatever pop music MTV or muchmusic tells them to.

I think most teenagers couldn't care less what operating system they have. Only a few can differentiate substantially between windows and macs.


Teens may still be legally minors but really most are starting to think of themselves as young adults so respecting that would go much farther.

My experience, currently being in high school, most people my age don't think for themselves whatsoever at all. Whatever theyre marketed, they buy.

You're not going to get someone my age to use ubuntu by marketing it. Sure, a contridiction to my last sentence. But seeing an ad for ubuntu and downloading and burning the cd, then installing and configuring it is different from seeing a pop musician on muchmusic and buying the CD or buying whatever ipod or cell phone everyone else has. The only way I can see anyone my age using something like linux is if their friend shows them or something. Other then that, people my age mostly frankly just dont care about linux. I think it is the college people who are more likely to switch to it.

[Adamant1988]

Nah.

Most teenagers have no idea what DRM is. They download a few singles from limewire and buy whatever pop music MTV or muchmusic tells them to.

I think most teenagers couldn't care less what operating system they have. Only a few can differentiate substantially between windows and macs.

You are right, they don't know. So imagine the way they'll react when they find out it might be harder to get their music for free if these big companies have their way! they might have to pay even! Just telling a few friends about the Windows Vista DRM has convinced them that they would like to get away from Microsoft's products.



My experience, currently being in high school, most people my age don't think for themselves whatsoever at all. Whatever theyre marketed, they buy.

You're not going to get someone my age to use ubuntu by marketing it. Sure, a contridiction to my last sentence. But seeing an ad for ubuntu and downloading and burning the cd, then installing and configuring it is different from seeing a pop musician on muchmusic and buying the CD or buying whatever ipod or cell phone everyone else has. The only way I can see anyone my age using something like linux is if their friend shows them or something. Other then that, people my age mostly frankly just dont care about linux. I think it is the college people who are more likely to switch to it.

It would depend. If running your computer using a different Operating system were to become synonymous with "trendy" "rebellious", and other characteristics that my generation (teens) love to embrace, you would be surprised what they might do. Either way, I don't expect to see any teen installing Ubuntu right now unless they're a geek. However, what I do expect to see happening if we market effectively, is 5-10 years down the road those teens are going to be getting used to the idea that there is an alternative operating system out there, that they have good. They'll be all grown up and have considerable buying power, they'll be able to speak with their wallets to get the choice we've been telling them they had all along. Call it "planting a seed", but this is in my opinion the way to go.

[SuperMike]

My kids are on Ubuntu Linux. Been that way for a year now. They know how to burn CDRs, download songs from YouTube, move the songs to an iPod, type up papers in Abiword, check out their Linux-friendly MySpace pages in Firefox, and play MP3 files. All is well with them. My wife gets on and does online shopping, banking work, NetFlix, surfing the celebrity sites, preparing class materials (as a schoolteacher) and so on.

So you could say I've done a good bit of marketing. They rarely get with me for help about it, and they haven't complained about not being on Windows except for the brief scuffle we had about problems with iPod and that I wouldn't permit installation of P2P stuff. But we got through that brief issue when I got gtkpod working and when I shared how to get stuff from YouTube.

[dbbolton]

cell phones can handle the tasks for which most teens use computers. id est, they can access myspace.

[Brunellus]

cell phones can handle the tasks for which most teens use computers. id est, they can access myspace.
cellphones have more processing power these days than my first PC.

[corstar]

Ive got the slogan.

"Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo dog"

edit: or if your talking to New Zealanders, "Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo cuz"

Or should that be
"Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo cuz, eh bro"

[corstar]

Or maybe,

"Ubuntu, your parents wont understand it!"

[sammydee]

The last thing I need in my life is the Myspace crowd marching into the distro complaining about how the latest xorg update or beryl update broke their X.

Actually, I would have thought this would be a good thing. More bug reports are always better than less, no?


Or should that be
"Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo cuz, eh bro"

I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic with this post. These is nothing that teenage students hate more than being targetted like this by adults who think they've come up with a cool slogun. We have posters like this at our school that try to be "gangsta" or whatever and people just laugh at them. Adult posters are just fine, there is NO NEED to treat kids any different from adults.

I'm still at school (last year of sixth form though) and we actually have Ubuntu posters, I saw one up the other day. It says something like "The information superhighway is open to everyone - Ubuntu" or something like that. That kind of thing is pretty effective, kids get pissed off with DRM just like everyone else.

I'm going to ask the IT technician at my school if we can set up a Ubuntu desktop in the IT rooms with Beryl and AIGLX (if we can get it working), then just leave it there for people to play around on and see how many people we can get interested. Eye candy is pretty important, people say to me "why linux, its ugly, windows Vista is way better". Games are not going to be implemented properly on linux for a long time, but not everyone wants to play games. I would say that good media playing is more important, along with good web browsing and flash is a must (firefox works ok for this actually).

A lot of people just say "well whats the point, windows works fine." These people will not use linux until is becomes much more mainstream, the people that actualy know or care what an OS is are the people to target, the people who are open minded and slightly geeky with pcs already.

Sam

[frup]

Ive got the slogan.

"Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo dog"

edit: or if your talking to New Zealanders, "Ubuntu, its wickity wackity woo cuz"

Trust me, the kind of New Zealanders using Ubuntu don't say cuz.

[vincentvee]

What's the small print going to say?

"but it sucks for games!"
we aren't talking about marketing a games machine, besides, thats what i use my xbox for

[vincentvee]

I'm still at school (last year of sixth form though) and we actually have Ubuntu posters, I saw one up the other day. It says something like "The information superhighway is open to everyone - Ubuntu" or something like that. That kind of thing is pretty effective, kids get pissed off with DRM just like everyone else.

I'm going to ask the IT technician at my school if we can set up a Ubuntu desktop in the IT rooms with Beryl and AIGLX (if we can get it working), then just leave it there for people to play around on and see how many people we can get interested. Eye candy is pretty important, people say to me "why linux, its ugly, windows Vista is way better". Games are not going to be implemented properly on linux for a long time, but not everyone wants to play games. I would say that good media playing is more important, along with good web browsing and flash is a must (firefox works ok for this actually).

A lot of people just say "well whats the point, windows works fine." These people will not use linux until is becomes much more mainstream, the people that actualy know or care what an OS is are the people to target, the people who are open minded and slightly geeky with pcs already.

Sam
i would have thought DRM would **** you off more than us old guys
if you are gonna set up beryl and aiglx on a desktop at school, would probably be better going with SuSE 10.1, has the effects straight out of the box at the click of a button
i bet someone flames me for that plug of SuSE now, but it is true after all, ubuntu is easier to use though

[slimdog360]

Trust me, the kind of New Zealanders using Ubuntu don't say cuz.

alright then cuz.

[vincentvee]

You're not going to get someone my age to use ubuntu by marketing it. Sure, a contridiction to my last sentence. But seeing an ad for ubuntu and downloading and burning the cd, then installing and configuring it is different from seeing a pop musician on muchmusic and buying the CD or buying whatever ipod or cell phone everyone else has. The only way I can see anyone my age using something like linux is if their friend shows them or something. Other then that, people my age mostly frankly just dont care about linux. I think it is the college people who are more likely to switch to it.

than

[corstar]

Trust me, the kind of New Zealanders using Ubuntu don't say cuz.

Is that right eh, bro?

hehe

Yes, I was pulling the ****...

[matt_risi]

Easy grammar king.

[Brunellus]

While I love grammar more than most forum moderators, I also love staying on-topic.

in an effort to haul this back on-topic, here's the voiceover preamble to Less Than Jake's "All My Best Friends are Metalheads":



This is a fair request, and I promise I will not judge any person only as a teenager.
You will constantly remind yourself that some of my generation judges people by their race,
their belief, or the color of their skin, and that this is no more right
than saying all teenagers are drunken dope-addicts or glue-sniffers.

right , then, carry on.

[macogw]

Brunellus, you like LTJ?! Cool!


i would have thought DRM would **** you off more than us old guys
if you are gonna set up beryl and aiglx on a desktop at school, would probably be better going with SuSE 10.1, has the effects straight out of the box at the click of a button
i bet someone flames me for that plug of SuSE now, but it is true after all, ubuntu is easier to use though

UBeryl is Ubuntu with Beryl on the live cd and it installs them both by default.

[rolando2424]

As a teen I have to say that the best way to make some publicity is through porn :D

OK, now seriously, perhaps trying to convince schools to give Ubuntu a try.

If it had the Beryl/AIGLX software, students would notice it and might give Ubuntu a try :D

[mkurdziolek]

My two cents: When I was a teenager I always wanted to be a bad ***. So we gotta make it seem like you are totally a rebel if you use Ubuntu.

Unfortunately I'm not very creative in this front. My only slogan idea is "Stick it to the man! Use ubuntu!"

Maybe we need a celebrity? Could we get John Stewart on the Daily Show endorse Ubuntu? Or Paris Hilton? ;-)

[macogw]

As a teen I have to say that the best way to make some publicity is through porn :D
"My computer always has viruses, and I can't get rid of them" "*semi-joking* use Linux" "what?" "it's like Mac OSX, but free and you don't have to get a new computer" "what's that have to do with viruses?" "you can download all the porn you want and never get a virus" "seriously? how do i get this?"

true story

[Brunellus]

"My computer always has viruses, and I can't get rid of them" "*semi-joking* use Linux" "what?" "it's like Mac OSX, but free and you don't have to get a new computer" "what's that have to do with viruses?" "you can download all the porn you want and never get a virus" "seriously? how do i get this?"

true story
the only problem is all that horrible .wmv porn.

[MasterOfDisaster]

The problem with Beryl/Compiz is the quality of computers used in many public schools. I live in a pretty affluent area, and our school has faster computers than most. However, I installed Beryl on one of the computers, and it was unusable. Intel Extreme Graphics, yea right.

Most of my friends use computers for only three things:
1. Games
2. Myspace
3. Limewire

Number one is pretty much a show stopper, as I don't know anyone that will actually go to the effort of wine and workarounds, etc. when they have been supplied with a Dell with Windows installed. Numbers 2 and 3 are easily do-able on Linux, but then again, why not just use the already installed Windows?

The only way to get most teenagers to use Linux is have the supplied computers run Ubuntu right from the start.

[Brunellus]

The problem with Beryl/Compiz is the quality of computers used in many public schools. I live in a pretty affluent area, and our school has faster computers than most. However, I installed Beryl on one of the computers, and it was unusable. Intel Extreme Graphics, yea right.

Most of my friends use computers for only three things:
1. Games
2. Myspace
3. Limewire

Number one is pretty much a show stopper, as I don't know anyone that will actually go to the effort of wine and workarounds, etc. when they have been supplied with a Dell with Windows installed. Numbers 2 and 3 are easily do-able on Linux, but then again, why not just use the already installed Windows?

The only way to get most teenagers to use Linux is have the supplied computers run Ubuntu right from the start.
I'm still voting for black shirts w/ white ubuntu symbols. no explanation. just symbols.

Perhaps a guerilla campaign on the order of OBEY GIANT. but not the new postmodern 'phenomenological' bollocks that the OBEY GIANT guys are trying to pass off. Naw. I'm talkin' about some old-school "6' 10" 310 lbs. ANDRE THE GIANT HAS A POSSE" type underground marketing.

whoa. I'm dating myself.

/me waves his cane cantankerously again.

[Sammi]

The fact that teenagers demand games on their computers is actually the best reason why we need to get them to use Linux. Because they'll create the demand for games on Linux and because of that we'll see more games being produced for Linux. I'm brilliant :shock:

[Daveski]

But black t-shirts with the ubuntu logo would be awesome. I'd wear 'em to shows.

Count me in also. Someone HAS to have done this already. Come on, someone must have the contacts to get a run of these at a decent price.

[juxtaposed]

You are right, they don't know. So imagine the way they'll react when they find out it might be harder to get their music for free if these big companies have their way! they might have to pay even! Just telling a few friends about the Windows Vista DRM has convinced them that they would like to get away from Microsoft's products.

Most people I know buy CDs along with downloading a few singles on limewire. They arn't that set on free music, or even care. I don't think it would be a big deal to them if they couldn't use limewire anymore or something like that.


It would depend. If running your computer using a different Operating system were to become synonymous with "trendy" "rebellious", and other characteristics that my generation (teens) love to embrace, you would be surprised what they might do. Either way, I don't expect to see any teen installing Ubuntu right now unless they're a geek. However, what I do expect to see happening if we market effectively, is 5-10 years down the road those teens are going to be getting used to the idea that there is an alternative operating system out there, that they have good. They'll be all grown up and have considerable buying power, they'll be able to speak with their wallets to get the choice we've been telling them they had all along. Call it "planting a seed", but this is in my opinion the way to go.

If you can find a way to get ubuntu to be considered cool like ipods, cell phones, and myspace then it would certainly get people my age to use it.

But that is an extremely hard thing to do. Like I said, even if someone saw an ad for ubuntu, I dont think they would care.
Idea: Advertise on myspace. I don't know if they have ads on it as I dont use it, but it might get some people to atleast look into it.


These is nothing that teenage students hate more than being targetted like this by adults who think they've come up with a cool slogun.

^

[frup]

Has anyone mentioned that gaim would possibly need a bit of work... I've tried to get some of my younger brothers friends to use ubuntu and when i show them gaim, explaining how all their accounts can be on one list etc they all go "but i cant wink and nudge in msn :( ") retarded i know.

[%hMa@?b<C]

Has anyone mentioned that gaim would possibly need a bit of work... I've tried to get some of my younger brothers friends to use ubuntu and when i show them gaim, explaining how all their accounts can be on one list etc they all go "but i cant wink and nudge in msn :( ") retarded i know.
you can nudge in amsn, which is in the repos

[rolando2424]

Has anyone mentioned that gaim would possibly need a bit of work... I've tried to get some of my younger brothers friends to use ubuntu and when i show them gaim, explaining how all their accounts can be on one list etc they all go "but i cant wink and nudge in msn :( ") retarded i know.

i had a friend that installed Ubuntu.

I told them that if he want to contacted me, to use IRC (I told him to use X-chat that came installed with his Edgy).

The next he has all saying that he didn't understood how to use that whole IRC thing, and that he could find the button for the nuggles and that flash-look-a-like animation that fill the whole screen (I don't know the name of those)...

When I told him that there weren't those things in IRC he looked at me like he tought I was kidding...

A few days latter he told me he had installed Ubuntu (but I think the only reason the installed Ubuntu in the first place was because I show in school a few Beryl/AIGLX movies...)

[promet]

I think it's true that gaming is, sadly, the bottom line. The Microsoft - DirectX - Video Game Studio cult is a monolithic problem.

We have Wine, Cedega, Codeweavers and whatnot. But the bottom line is, it's too much hassle for your average person. Teenagers, I'm guessing, still make up the majority of the gaming market.

I think there are few people that wouldn't drop ******* like a hot rock if they could install Ubuntu and slap Doom 3 or Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion on it and play them (relatively) flawlessy.

Ubuntu (Linux) trumps Windows, but making it attractive to teenagers is definitely going to require a serious effort to convince industry leading game developers to start regularly porting their cutting edge, nay bleeding edge, products to Linux.

That is quite a task, but I think it's crucial in any strategic planning on this issue. Basically, the Ubuntu (Linux) community needs to make itself known to (read: pester relentlessly) the gaming studios that we represent a significant market share (the bottom line).

I mean really, who would spend a gajillion dollars on ******* Vista (Vexed-A) if they could get good gaming on a free platform (I mean it would even threaten Sony PS3 and Wii, etc., really). Microsoft's upcoming DirectX 10 (a complete and flawless reverse engineering of DirectX 10 would be priceless; but snowballs in Hell, you know...) is going to further solidify this cult relationship and is, I think the lynchpin of their future success; cuz, purely computing-wise, Linux is a far superior OS, imho.

It's not a dealbreaker though. I mean, smart young people, of which there are many - contrary to popular belief - are going to gravitate to Linux because...they're smart. But serious inroads into the "general teen *******-cult" WILL require a revolution that starts in the game studios (and possibly burning Redmond Washington to the ground...).

[Brunellus]

I think it's true that gaming is, sadly, the bottom line. The Microsoft - DirectX - Video Game Studio cult is a monolithic problem.

We have Wine, Cedega, Codeweavers and whatnot. But the bottom line is, it's too much hassle for your average person. Teenagers, I'm guessing, still make up the majority of the gaming market.

I think there are few people that wouldn't drop ******* like a hot rock if they could install Ubuntu and slap Doom 3 or Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion on it and play them (relatively) flawlessy.

Ubuntu (Linux) trumps Windows, but making it attractive to teenagers is definitely going to require a serious effort to convince industry leading game developers to start regularly porting their cutting edge, nay bleeding edge, products to Linux.

That is quite a task, but I think it's crucial in any strategic planning on this issue. Basically, the Ubuntu (Linux) community needs to make itself known to (read: pester relentlessly) the gaming studios that we represent a significant market share (the bottom line).

I mean really, who would spend a gajillion dollars on ******* Vista (Vexed-A) if they could get good gaming on a free platform (I mean it would even threaten Sony PS3 and Wii, etc., really). Microsoft's upcoming DirectX 10 (a complete and flawless reverse engineering of DirectX 10 would be priceless; but snowballs in Hell, you know...) is going to further solidify this cult relationship and is, I think the lynchpin of their future success; cuz, purely computing-wise, Linux is a far superior OS, imho.

It's not a dealbreaker though. I mean, smart young people, of which there are many - contrary to popular belief - are going to gravitate to Linux because...they're smart. But serious inroads into the "general teen *******-cult" WILL require a revolution that starts in the game studios (and possibly burning Redmond Washington to the ground...).
this is straying dangerously close to "NOT READY FOR THE DESKTOP," and if this goes there, I'll merge the relevant posts to that thread.

Face it: Gamers are NOT Ubuntu's primary target market. Ubuntu is Linux for Human Beings, yes, but if you sit down and analyze the sorts of uses that are supported in the core Ubuntu distribution, you will realize that it's really Linux for Businesses that Don't Want to Deal with the Burden of Complying with Microsoft's Licenses.

And there's the rub: home users were never a major force in mass OS adoption. Bug #1 happened because Windows ran on commodity x86 hardware. That wasn't a mistake: the IBM/Microsoft deal that put MS-DOS on every IBM PC wrote Bug #1 in stone. MS-DOS on the IBM PC was not the prettiest, most elegant, or most technically capable solution out there. It certainly wasn't "ready for the desktop" or nearly as suitable for gaming, multimedia, or porn as many of the other platforms in the '80s--Apple's Macintosh and Commodore's Amiga being notable counterexamples. But it was cheap, available, and widespread.

Bottom-line: it was adopted at home because Mr. Smith needed to edit his Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet that he brought home from work on a 5 1/4 inch floppy diskette. It wasn't because it was any prettier or better than the competition.

The lesson here, kids, is that pretty and cool don't always win. The other lesson is that mass OS adoption is *always* a question of coercion--you run your OS not because YOU want to, but because the office/university sysadmin wants you to do so.

And don't say that gamers are the majority of the computing market. There are several hundred computers at my office that have no games on them at all, with a system specification that would make teen gamers weep with laughter. But that's just one firm in a city of thousands...each one of which is procuring hardware and software. Do the math: games are profitable, but not the biggest portion of the computing industry--not by a LONG shot.

At this point, any marketing of Ubuntu and Linux in general is going to have to targed mindshare rather than actually taking over desktops.

[%hMa@?b<C]

I totally agree That gamers should not be the target market. I have my gamecube for that, I think that the goal should be to focus on price and security and DRM for marketing. (athough I feel that Linus, if he does DRM the linux kernel, will be betraying the entire userbase. I will certainly switch to GNU Hurd, no matter how inferior it is.

[picpak]

Has anyone mentioned that gaim would possibly need a bit of work... I've tried to get some of my younger brothers friends to use ubuntu and when i show them gaim, explaining how all their accounts can be on one list etc they all go "but i cant wink and nudge in msn :( ") retarded i know.

When my mom got her new laptop, she was really excited to get Windows. Why? So she could get Yahoo Messenger with all those crazy buttons and talking emoticons.

A messenger like that really does make all the difference.

[Brunellus]

When my mom got her new laptop, she was really excited to get Windows. Why? So she could get Yahoo Messenger with all those crazy buttons and talking emoticons.

A messenger like that really does make all the difference.
let the dead bury their dead. But my opposition to smilies is well-documented on these forums...

[bastiegast]

this is straying dangerously close to "NOT READY FOR THE DESKTOP," and if this goes there, I'll merge the relevant posts to that thread.

Face it: Gamers are NOT Ubuntu's primary target market. Ubuntu is Linux for Human Beings, yes, but if you sit down and analyze the sorts of uses that are supported in the core Ubuntu distribution, you will realize that it's really Linux for Businesses that Don't Want to Deal with the Burden of Complying with Microsoft's Licenses.

And there's the rub: home users were never a major force in mass OS adoption. Bug #1 happened because Windows ran on commodity x86 hardware. That wasn't a mistake: the IBM/Microsoft deal that put MS-DOS on every IBM PC wrote Bug #1 in stone. MS-DOS on the IBM PC was not the prettiest, most elegant, or most technically capable solution out there. It certainly wasn't "ready for the desktop" or nearly as suitable for gaming, multimedia, or porn as many of the other platforms in the '80s--Apple's Macintosh and Commodore's Amiga being notable counterexamples. But it was cheap, available, and widespread.

Bottom-line: it was adopted at home because Mr. Smith needed to edit his Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet that he brought home from work on a 5 1/4 inch floppy diskette. It wasn't because it was any prettier or better than the competition.

The lesson here, kids, is that pretty and cool don't always win. The other lesson is that mass OS adoption is *always* a question of coercion--you run your OS not because YOU want to, but because the office/university sysadmin wants you to do so.

And don't say that gamers are the majority of the computing market. There are several hundred computers at my office that have no games on them at all, with a system specification that would make teen gamers weep with laughter. But that's just one firm in a city of thousands...each one of which is procuring hardware and software. Do the math: games are profitable, but not the biggest portion of the computing industry--not by a LONG shot.

At this point, any marketing of Ubuntu and Linux in general is going to have to targed mindshare rather than actually taking over desktops.

I'd like to clarify that in my enviroment, Teens-that-use-Windows-and-would-potentially-be-able-to-install-Ubuntu == 90% Gamers. I mean, Teens that don't game usually don't give a ** about installing another OS, they are too tech-phobic for that. Gamers on the other hand are a very large part of the computer-using teens and are familiar with hardware and software tweaking.
So if we are talking to marketing ubuntu to teens, then yes we are also talking about gamers.

On the other hand, the non-gaming people would have little hassle converting to ubuntu but they need someone to install it for them. These people are made enthusiastic by cool looks i guess.

[loell]

When my mom got her new laptop, she was really excited to get Windows. Why? So she could get Yahoo Messenger with all those crazy buttons and talking emoticons.

A messenger like that really does make all the difference.

i agree, for what its worth maybe you can consider gyachi (http://gyachi.sourceforge.net) in the future.

[jjte]

As a teen ((14) and also a new zealander) i didnt really need any marketing directed towards myself, microsoft did that for ubuntu as i was tired of the clutter, useless eye candy and features that dont really work.
But what i have found when talking to my non technologically enlightened friends, that they will get frustrated and start ignoring me if i use to many technical terms, and while my friends are in no way idiots, i find myself having to dumb it down a bit.
Most teens are happy with windows, and dont see any reason to stop using it, so you have to make the transition as easy and painless as possible, and keep in mind that the average teen is not a power user like you and I.
Thats my 2 cents :)

[peanut butter]

I was talking to a person who deals with sound and lights for plays, and he kept bashing windows (saying aarrgg i hate XP) I told him i used ubuntu, but the moment i said the word linux he just acted as if he had seen a ghost, and said ok you can go use linux. have people been brainwashed? do we need to have un brianwashing done?

[hotshot23t]

I'm willing to put some time into designing a cool myspace page for Ubuntu. Just imagine how big we could get the friends list, the bigger it gets the more people hear about Ubuntu. It would really be great if we could get people to put Ubuntu in their "top Eight" friends. Is anyone else interested in helping me design and maintain this? If we could get three or four people together this would be pretty easy. Let me know.

[slimdog360]

Ive come up with a new slogan

Ubuntu, its wickity wack wack woo woo wow ububity do.

how was that one????

[s_spiff]

Well the retarding factor of conversion of MS using teens to Linux is the fact that for every little thing, they need to go online and get something, right from drivers! Why not create the ubuntu package with more stuff in it, and market it as a DVD instead of a CD.. like a combo meal, more for less sorta thing. I still hate it when I have to juggle between windows and linux, just cuz I didnt have the driver of my modem on linux, i had to go online repos via Windows and download all the requirements and all! Now which impatient teen would even bother?

[promet]

Face it: Gamers are NOT Ubuntu's primary target market. Ubuntu is Linux for Human Beings, yes, but if you sit down and analyze the sorts of uses that are supported in the core Ubuntu distribution, you will realize that it's really Linux for Businesses that Don't Want to Deal with the Burden of Complying with Microsoft's Licenses.

Brunellus, I am not suggesting that "Gamers are Ubuntu's primary market".



And there's the rub: home users were never a major force in mass OS adoption. Bug #1 happened because Windows ran on commodity x86 hardware. That wasn't a mistake: the IBM/Microsoft deal that put MS-DOS on every IBM PC wrote Bug #1 in stone. MS-DOS on the IBM PC was not the prettiest, most elegant, or most technically capable solution out there. It certainly wasn't "ready for the desktop" or nearly as suitable for gaming, multimedia, or porn as many of the other platforms in the '80s--Apple's Macintosh and Commodore's Amiga being notable counterexamples. But it was cheap, available, and widespread.

Nor am I claiming anything contrary to this...historical beef.




Bottom-line: it was adopted at home because Mr. Smith needed to edit his Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet that he brought home from work on a 5 1/4 inch floppy diskette. It wasn't because it was any prettier or better than the competition.

Uhhhhmmmm, okay...(and that is relevant to what?)


The lesson here, kids, is that pretty and cool don't always win. The other lesson is that mass OS adoption is *always* a question of coercion--you run your OS not because YOU want to, but because the office/university sysadmin wants you to do so.

I appreciate this...zealotry also, but neither am I contradicting it; nor am I a 'kid'.


And don't say that gamers are the majority of the computing market. There are several hundred computers at my office that have no games on them at all, with a system specification that would make teen gamers weep with laughter. But that's just one firm in a city of thousands...each one of which is procuring hardware and software.

I never suggested that "gamers are the majority of the computing market" but that "Teenagers, I'm guessing, still make up the majority of the gaming market." Which I think, if you read carefully, we can agree are widely separate statements (assumptions); and perhaps we can recall that the subject of this thread being, "marketing ubuntu to teens anyone?", we might have some more "concise" discussions.



Do the math: games are profitable, but not the biggest portion of the computing industry--not by a LONG shot.

I am not unfamiliar with "math", nor am I denying that games are not the "biggest" portion of the computing industry (nor am I denying it, even by a "long shot"). What ... I... am... saying..., Is that gaming is an important part (undeniably) of "marketing ubuntu to teens anyone?" (Reminder: subject of this thread).


At this point, any marketing of Ubuntu and Linux in general is going to have to targed mindshare rather than actually taking over desktops.

I'm not...even sure...what this means...punct...

pssssssssssssss........

[rolando2424]

I was talking to a person who deals with sound and lights for plays, and he kept bashing windows (saying aarrgg i hate XP) I told him i used ubuntu, but the moment i said the word linux he just acted as if he had seen a ghost, and said ok you can go use linux. have people been brainwashed? do we need to have un brianwashing done?

I recommend Shock Teraphy :D

[Brunellus]

I recommend Shock Teraphy :D
Or simple desensitization. Many people have never used any other OS than windows, so they are simply not aware that any such thing exists.

I'm old enough to remember several platform shifts--C64, Apple II, MS-DOS, Windows 95. each one was different. I simply transferred from one to the next.

This generation of teenagers has come of age post- win95. they are perhaps the most difficult to break away from windows.

[Sunflower1970]

Since teens are living at home with their parental units, and they (the parents) hold all (well usually all) the buying power for computers in the household, then they are probably the ones to be marketing to. The kids would have no real choice but to follow along if Mom & Dad decide that Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Edubuntu would be better on thier computers instead of Windows. At that point, I can see console gaming then becoming the choice instead of computer gaming, unless, then, companies that make & market games get their act together and create better Linux-supported games.

[Adamant1988]

Since teens are living at home with their parental units, and they (the parents) hold all (well usually all) the buying power for computers in the household, then they are probably the ones to be marketing to. The kids would have no real choice but to follow along if Mom & Dad decide that Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Edubuntu would be better on thier computers instead of Windows. At that point, I can see console gaming then becoming the choice instead of computer gaming, unless, then, companies that make & market games get their act together and create better Linux-supported games.

You have a higher likely hood of getting the teens to switch than the parents, honestly. I read a wonderful quote recently, and I'm paraphrasing it, but it went like this:

"If a technology is around when you're born, it's just the way the world works. If it arrives between the time you're 10-20 it's new and exciting and you can probably make a career out of it. If that technology arrives after you turn 35 it's evil and against the ways of the world"

A lot (I would say the majority) of parentals are scared of the computer, they don't understand it, and they certainly don't want to do any unnecessary tinkering with it if they don't have to.

[Sunflower1970]

"If a technology is around when you're born, it's just the way the world works. If it arrives between the time you're 10-20 it's new and exciting and you can probably make a career out of it. If that technology arrives after you turn 35 it's evil and against the ways of the world"

A lot (I would say the majority) of parentals are scared of the computer, they don't understand it, and they certainly don't want to do any unnecessary tinkering with it if they don't have to.
I think that may be changing though, since parents nowadays grew up with computers around, games around, and I know many males over the age of 25 at work who are hard-core gamers.

I'd describe parents years ago more likely to be afraid of a computer. When I was growing up, my mom was...my dad was, too to an extent, although you'd never guess it now by the way they use them (they have both a Mac and a PC who live peacefully together actually :) ) (they're in their 50s and 60s)

My dad is very intrigued by Ubuntu, since he's been having lots of problems with XP, recently. It was a custom built computer, and I think the guy put a pirated copy of XP on it....

[promet]

The only thing worse than a Windows installation, is a pirated-bootstrapped Windows Installation (except for gaming ;) ).

A sad way to treat a nice custom PC. I bet Ubuntu would fly on that thing...

[Omnios]

Hi my niece is a wierd user but may be less weird when compared to her user type. Her main uses are P-to-P for music. Linix can fix this without spyware and viruses. She used it to listen to music and put music on her mp3 player and phone. Her messenger was going all day with about 20 open conversations. When she needed something installed she got her boy friend or my sister to install it. Parlor games are huge to them be it 21 etc.


Is it easy to cater to teens/ yes very easy its just a matter of finding there wants and catering to them. WIll a tean switch to linux? Yes if there needs are catered to them as in how hard is it to launch and use synaptic.

[linux_kid]

Ubuntu for Teens, Great IDEA
Its easy to get teens agianst somthing, but hard to get for somthing.
So lets take this as a rebellion to Microsoft than promoting ubuntu.
Still, great idea

[linux_kid]

Another factor, I (a teen) had to buy my own PC to install linux, my parents wouldn't let me install it on our main machine. Most teens won't buy their own PC just to have linux. AND most teens want to play games on their PC, as we all know, linux isn't too good with games.

[rolando2424]

Or simple desensitization. Many people have never used any other OS than windows, so they are simply not aware that any such thing exists.

I'm old enough to remember several platform shifts--C64, Apple II, MS-DOS, Windows 95. each one was different. I simply transferred from one to the next.

This generation of teenagers has come of age post- win95. they are perhaps the most difficult to break away from windows.

Even though I have never seen and C64 and Apple, I'm lucky because my father bought a computer when I was around 2, with brought only MS-DOS (it was in 1992), so I had to learn how to work with the command lines, and not be so "afraid" of non-graphical procedures.

But yeah, most people I know started using pc after the Windows 95, so it a little hard for them to switch.

[vincentvee]

Another factor, I (a teen) had to buy my own PC to install linux, my parents wouldn't let me install it on our main machine. Most teens won't buy their own PC just to have linux. AND most teens want to play games on their PC, as we all know, linux isn't too good with games.
no most kids wouldn't, good to see so many younger people interested in open source and especially linux
V

[IYY]

The kind of teens who would be interested in Ubuntu are not the kind who would be easily swayed by any sort of marketing. They will discover it on their own, and switch to it out of their own free will.

[vincentvee]

You have a higher likely hood of getting the teens to switch than the parents, honestly. I read a wonderful quote recently, and I'm paraphrasing it, but it went like this:

"If a technology is around when you're born, it's just the way the world works. If it arrives between the time you're 10-20 it's new and exciting and you can probably make a career out of it. If that technology arrives after you turn 35 it's evil and against the ways of the world"

A lot (I would say the majority) of parentals are scared of the computer, they don't understand it, and they certainly don't want to do any unnecessary tinkering with it if they don't have to.
i would have to agree with that, though i am a parent and these are the things that interest me but i also have other interests aswell
i get bored if there are not enough things to keep my mind spinning

[jennire_5]

i could help if you need any advice on what would appeal to teens
i am 15 and i just started using ubuntu 2 days ago

i got it because i thought it looked cool- the effects(i was watching videos on how ubuntu works on youtube
so that is somewhere to start - show the visual effects

[-gabe-noob-]

I got a few freinds in school interested in ubuntu by letting them use it, they figured out how to use the cube, and they were like "Dude KICK ***" and my girlfreind reallly likes the wobbly windows. MOST kids don't even know that there is an alternative out there. Also a catchy theme song is always helpful if you'd like me to TRY to whip one up (forming a band HAHAHAHAHAH).