View Full Version : ubuntu / linux endorsed hardware
idrinkwhisky
February 3rd, 2007, 05:22 AM
Hi
i was just thinking that it might be a good idea if ubuntuforums (or maybe ubuntu in general) should publish a list with endorsed hardware. Not just a list of hardware that works, but a list of hardware that works great and of which the manufacturers actually produce linux drivers.
If ubuntu users would start using only the hardware on the list it might be an incentive for other manufacturers to start building linux drivers. Moreover, consumers that buy only endorsed hardware are insured of hardware working out of the box.
Currently, i believe that stuff like webcams, wifi network cards and other periphials (how to spell that correctly) are still badly supported.
What's your opinion on creating an ubuntu endorsed list of hardware?
aysiu
February 3rd, 2007, 05:37 AM
I agree.
While https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport and http://www.linuxcompatible.org are great resources, there should be one place where you can find recommended hardware--not just a list of all hardware and what works and what doesn't and what we're not sure of.
Couldn't you make a Wiki page on that? Something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedHardware?
By the way, I've moved this thread to the Cafe, since it's more of a discussion piece than a support thread.
idrinkwhisky
February 3rd, 2007, 05:44 AM
thanks for your reply,
i'll try to start a wikipage on it. However, currently I absolutely do not have the knowledge to even start a list of recommended hardware. Though I do have a list of hardware that I would NOT recommend ;-)
Polygon
February 3rd, 2007, 06:21 AM
a hardware compatability list is a good idea, but i think its already implemented in that website in a previous post
but,Im anxiously awaiting the first release of the "doohicky" project, which is basically a program where people rate and comment on hardware in their computer, and other users can see the ratings and comments on a website and make their own decisions from there =P
aysiu
February 3rd, 2007, 06:34 AM
a hardware compatability list is a good idea, but i think its already implemented in that website in a previous post No. This would be something different--a recommended hardware list. A compatibility list lists any hardware, regardless of how well it works and then rates the compatibility as good, bad, or unknown.
The proposed "endorsed hardware" list would include only the good and great, not the bad or unknown.
kripkenstein
February 3rd, 2007, 08:59 AM
This is an excellent idea. I will do my best to contribute to it.
aeto
February 3rd, 2007, 11:31 AM
im just waiting for the opensource graphics card by some innovative manufacturer :)
Stex
February 3rd, 2007, 12:10 PM
I love the idea but how anyone could implement it would be a nightmare. For example how high should the standards be? Should we recommend hardware from manufacturers who release source code more than those who don't? Price ranges, recommended lists cut down user freedom etc...
Maybe we should just stick to a list of hardware that absolutely works, as in properly and perfectly, out the box. Best case scenario is pushing a "Linux Supported" sticker as shown on the RecommendedHardware page.
- Just a suggestion to throw out there, I'd still prefer to see a recommended hardware page if people can work out how to make one.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 06:30 AM
I think allowing it to be user maintained and updated is a better option. Let the users build the database themselves, and keep the ratings flowing themselves. Provide the appropriate interface for them to leave comments on the hardware, along with the picture and a paragraph format we've all come to know and love.
towsonu2003
February 9th, 2007, 06:33 AM
yes this would be nice. clean and easy to navigate... and it would be nice if it ha links to places that sell the hardware. so here is the utopia I have in mind:
1. Decide that you want a video card
2. go to endorsed.ubuntu.com
3. choose the video card you like
4. click on the link "BUY THIS TOY"
5. buy it
6. be happy
7. ???
8. profit
cowlip
February 9th, 2007, 07:01 AM
would make buying wireless adapters/cards and video cards a lot easier. I want to give my money to people with linux support and right now it's a bit confusing.
of course I remember that doesn't Ubuntu have sort of a driver questionnare when you go into the device manager under Gnome?
Stretchman
February 9th, 2007, 07:08 AM
Actually, I really like this idea. I was all set (finally!) to start piecing together my 'Buntu Box, and I want to make sure that each component I choose will not only be compatible with Linux, but also work quite well drivers-wise and with a healthy amount of accessories and peripherals out there.
Having a user maintained list would go a long way in alleviating this part of my build process. Two thumbs up!:)
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 05:42 PM
I would be willing to help participate in this project ( marketing, what have you) but I currently lack the technical skills it would take to put something like this together. Would anyone else be interested in working on this? ( I would rather the site be distro agnostic)
seijuro
February 9th, 2007, 06:24 PM
I think it's a great idea, I've been waiting for a project like this to come up for 7ish years. I also agree it should only be hardware that will work 100% like it's supposed to. I'd be more than happy to contribute in any fashion I can offer.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 06:36 PM
I think it's a great idea, I've been waiting for a project like this to come up for 7ish years. I also agree it should only be hardware that will work 100% like it's supposed to. I'd be more than happy to contribute in any fashion I can offer.
Well, let's sort out what we need first.
So far we'll need: hosting, a domain (optional), someone who knows a good bit about web design and coding, and some kind of a system to prevent users from loading duplicate versions of the same item to the site.
However, I think it should be both a compatibility list, and a recommended hardware list.
Case in point, I have a system right now, I want to know if my hardware is going to work and what potential pitfalls I may run into loading a distribution. If this site were only a recommended hardware list, it may very well be useless to me.
However, to accomodate those who simply want a recommended hardware list, we could make it as easy as clicking a button that says "Recommended hardware for your distribution", you would then be asked which distribution you use, which version you use, and a recommended hardware list would be brought up on the site.
At least that's how I see it, we all need to pitch in some good constructive ideas and criticism to get this project off of the ground.
Stex
February 9th, 2007, 07:05 PM
I find it quite bemusing that this kind of thing doesn't exist already for any part of the linux universe. Supporting distros other than Ubuntu is a good and communal thing to do as well (though if you only listed ubuntu would you be more likely to get support from canonical?).
Having a web-based database and website with an accompanying program that can warn/help those with hardware already on their system that could run into problems would be good but stretching the original idea somewhat.
I'd offer my work in php, mysql, (x)html, javascript, etc. to whoever decides to create this project. As long as a project lifespan is guaranteed (don't want to work my *** off for something that's immediately scrapped). I can do any of your web programming/web designing needs (though you'll probably want to add a graphics designer in to steer me in the good-looks direction). I couldn't manage the project though, I'd need to work under someone telling me roughly what to include.
Come to think of it, you'd probably be looking for a system not unlike the wine app db (http://appdb.winehq.org/), especially it's ratings of compatibility, but with more features/navigation ease.
[edit] As for domains, linuxrecommends is open for all suffixes
seijuro
February 9th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Personally I'm really not interested in another remix of a compatibility list with "accommodations" for a recommended hardware list. However the prospect of a list purely containing fully linux supported hardware would be uniquely worth while project imo. Or perhaps it's just me.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 07:28 PM
I find it quite bemusing that this kind of thing doesn't exist already for any part of the linux universe. Supporting distros other than Ubuntu is a good and communal thing to do as well (though if you only listed ubuntu would you be more likely to get support from canonical?).
Having a web-based database and website with an accompanying program that can warn/help those with hardware already on their system that could run into problems would be good but stretching the original idea somewhat.
I'd offer my work in php, mysql, (x)html, javascript, etc. to whoever decides to create this project. As long as a project lifespan is guaranteed (don't want to work my *** off for something that's immediately scrapped). I can do any of your web programming/web designing needs (though you'll probably want to add a graphics designer in to steer me in the good-looks direction). I couldn't manage the project though, I'd need to work under someone telling me roughly what to include.
Come to think of it, you'd probably be looking for a system not unlike the wine app db (http://appdb.winehq.org/), especially it's ratings of compatibility, but with more features/navigation ease.
Well, I would be more than happy to collaborate with you on ideas and so forth. Perhaps we can get a small forum running to communicate ideas and such for the site effectively. This is something I think Linux needs, so I'd be more than willing to stick with the project.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 07:29 PM
Personally I'm really not interested in another remix of a compatibility list with "accommodations" for a recommended hardware list. However the prospect of a list purely containing fully linux supported hardware would be uniquely worth while project imo. Or perhaps it's just me.
You would get your endorsed hardware list, the site would be able to meet both needs and not just one... that would be a good thing, right?
dvarsam
February 9th, 2007, 08:04 PM
i was just thinking that it might be a good idea if ubuntuforums (or maybe ubuntu in general) should publish a list with endorsed hardware.
Not just a list of hardware that works, but a list of hardware that works great and of which the manufacturers actually produce linux drivers.
If ubuntu users would start using only the hardware on the list it might be an incentive for other manufacturers to start building linux drivers. Moreover, consumers that buy only endorsed hardware are insured of hardware working out of the box.
Currently, i believe that stuff like webcams, wifi network cards and other periphials (how to spell that correctly) are still badly supported.
What's your opinion on creating an ubuntu endorsed list of hardware?
I can't agree more!!!
I want to purchase so many Hardware...
But I am postponing this due to "fear" that it might involve a lot of work to make them work in my Ubuntu Box...
This is one of those things that require "urgent" attention...
Just an idea:
Maybe Linspire could finance this, with the money they make from CNR subscriptions!
Thanks.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Would anyone else be interested in working with Stex and I? This could be a great resource the the entire Linux community if it's done properly, so if you have ideas or talents that you could contribute, by all means, don't let us stop you.
dvarsam
February 9th, 2007, 09:19 PM
I think allowing it to be user maintained and updated is a better option. Let the users build the database themselves, and keep the ratings flowing themselves. Provide the appropriate interface for them to leave comments on the hardware, along with the picture and a paragraph format we've all come to know and love.
This already exists!
The problem is that users are too lazy & don't tend to work on this...
I have personally added some Hardware of mine inside the Ubuntu wiki...
See here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
But I don't see many others doing this...
What we need is somebody who is willing to perform serious work on this!
So it has to be somebody who has money/funds to purchase Hardware & Test them out...
Unless Hardware companies decide to ship Hardware & those being Tested & returned...
Thanks.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 09:22 PM
This already exists!
The problem is that users are too lazy & don't tend to work on this...
I have personally added some Hardware of mine inside the Ubuntu wiki...
But I don't see many others doing this...
What we need is somebody who is willing to perform serious work on this!
So it has to be somebody who has money/funds to purchase Hardware & Test them out...
Unless Hardware companies decide to ship Hardware & those being Tested & returned...
Thanks.
I have seen the ones that already exist. They're nothing like what I, and others I'm sure, would like to see. linuxcompatible.org is absolutely awful to try to navigate, horrible design, and finding anything is equally difficult. the Search function wasn't able to locate my all-in-one HP printer, but I found it after menu diving, for example.
andytof47
February 9th, 2007, 09:47 PM
I voted yes other - the other being we ARE big enough to warrant the extra development $$$$
Also I am working on a website that is in the true spirit of Open source -
www.endorsedbylinux.org
It's not up yet but with the help of each other we can make a database the way WE want with a rating system that is clear and concise
If anyone is interested in making code donatins please PM me and we will talk - We have what it takes amongst us e.g. skills,drive etc
And I for one am sick of buying stuff that doesn't work or only half works so I am also working on
www.linuxpetitions.org - code donations greatly appreciated for that aswell
It's just what we need - one place to find our information and one place to be heard and thanks to the copious amounts of time I have between exams someone who can spend their days harrasing the big boys:)
Cheers
aysiu
February 9th, 2007, 09:53 PM
This already exists! No, it doesn't.
We're not talking about a list of any hardware and how well it works or doesn't work with Ubuntu.
W'e're talking about a list of only hardware that does work and works well with Ubuntu.
mickbuntu
February 9th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Interesting pole,
Since you like to hear from other forum members based on this pole. Given it few minutes thought and think it is a bad idea. Here is why think the way I do. Don't like "made for linux" "linux inside" "made for windows "revision here". Hardware should be made to work regardless of the operating system. It should not be a bias of what it should work on. They make the hardware not software. If it were software for a platform then ok. But hardware vendors should not favor one over the other. That would make life of the end users easier. It should only know one thing: "understand the instruction set despite of who commands it". Was going to first say yes, but changed my mind based on knowing how difficult and head breaking it can be to make something work. Of course with Windows that issue is more slim. As everything virtually made to work with it. So hardware vendors: "drop the slogan best with!" Make your hardware neutral of what it runs on. Their thus should be no endorsements of any sort. It will only likely drive the cost of the parts up. Since it will be rare ("we are the only ones in town with full linux support") , preferential treatment etc.
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 10:00 PM
If you already have a domain, that's a big step foward, would you be interested in collaborating to design a professional looking, easy to navigate, site that can help everyone?
Adamant1988
February 9th, 2007, 10:03 PM
Interesting pole,
Since you like to hear from other forum members based on this pole. Given it few minutes thought and think it is a bad idea. Here is why think the way I do. Don't like "made for linux" "linux inside" "made for windows "revision here". Hardware should be made to work regardless of the operating system. It should not be a bias of what it should work on. They make the hardware not software. If it were software for a platform then ok. But hardware vendors should not favor one over the other. That would make life of the end users easier. It should only know one thing: "understand the instruction set despite of who commands it". Was going to first say yes, but changed my mind based on knowing how difficult and head breaking it can be to make something work. Of course with Windows that issue is more slim. As everything virtually made to work with it. So hardware vendors: "drop the slogan best with!" Make your hardware neutral of what it runs on.
Unfortunately, your idealism ignores the reality that some hardware does work better with Linux than others. By making it easy to attain the information that people need to buy linux compatible hardware (and making sure that the competition is aware of the lost sales) eventually Linux will be supported on more and more hardware until the point is moot. Which would make you happy, but for right now, a hardware compatibility list and a recommended hardware list are needed.
aysiu
February 9th, 2007, 10:08 PM
While a "works with Linux" sticker would be great (even though mickbuntu disagrees with the idea), a list of things that do work with Linux would be necessary precisely because
1. Most hardware devices do not include a "works with Linux" sticker
2. Not all hardware devices work well with Linux
So, how would one know what to get? If I want to buy a wireless card, for example, do I want to go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported and sort through all the yeses and nos to figure out what would be best? Why not just have a list of cards that do work, so someone can go straight to that list and pick one?
Not having a list like this is like having Synaptic be full of any conceivable package but some of the packages are installable through the repositories and others aren't. Why would you want a package listed you couldn't easily install? Likewise, why would you want hardware listed that doesn't work?
If it is desirable to list all hardware (regardless of how well it works), can't we list them in order of works well to works terribly? At least that way people could pick items off the top of the list to buy...
mickbuntu
February 9th, 2007, 10:20 PM
Unfortunately, your idealism ignores the reality that some hardware does work better with Linux than others. By making it easy to attain the information that people need to buy linux compatible hardware (and making sure that the competition is aware of the lost sales) eventually Linux will be supported on more and more hardware until the point is moot. Which would make you happy, but for right now, a hardware compatibility list and a recommended hardware list are needed.
While a "works with Linux" sticker would be great (even though mickbuntu disagrees with the idea), a list of things that do work with Linux would be necessary precisely because
1. Most hardware devices do not include a "works with Linux" sticker
2. Not all hardware devices work well with Linux
So, how would one know what to get? If I want to buy a wireless card, for example, do I want to go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported and sort through all the yeses and nos to figure out what would be best? Why not just have a list of cards that do work, so someone can go straight to that list and pick one?
Not having a list like this is like having Synaptic be full of any conceivable package but some of the packages are installable through the repositories and others aren't. Why would you want a package listed you couldn't easily install? Likewise, why would you want hardware listed that doesn't work?
If it is desirable to list all hardware (regardless of how well it works), can't we list them in order of works well to works terribly? At least that way people could pick items off the top of the list to buy...
That is correct my idea here is of the future what like to see. I therefore voted on the pole and explained my reason for nay to it. Obviously, not denying in the short term success of the list. In the short term it would be a good thing. But in the foreseeable Their will never be an end to slant of what platform gets it all. Unless that list can gurantee quick pickup of users. After that hardware vendors realize that linux is a real platform. hum........... But again, it still creates a divide so no not a solution.
What do want to see is this: You go into the store and not having to ask the owner "Will this work with linux?" Maybe... not sure... If hardware vendors released neutral hardware it would be different.
Their has to be a long term solution which is as said before. Have the hardware vendors release their equipment to work regardless of platform. One less thing to worry about then having bunch of lists (future). Speaking of which, had a personal fear not too long ago ( I build computers by degree whenever need) Anyway, the recent computer build had to speak to Sales department ---> Customer support --> back to sales. Why? Because they were not sure if the part would work. It is very difficult to get my point across sometimes in the forum. To translate the actual impulse of the thought. Point: Lists are good but solution to this dilema is better. Having lists to the milky way is cubersm but again respect the opinions of others. Bu again , being a dreamer.... :)
andytof47
February 9th, 2007, 10:30 PM
If you already have a domain, that's a big step foward, would you be interested in collaborating to design a professional looking, easy to navigate, site that can help everyone?
Yes well that is exactly what I want!!!!
Something with the idea that has a scale on a one to five based on
-Level of support from developers
-Availability of Information
-etc
-etc
Since you like to hear from other forum members based on this pole. Given it few minutes thought and think it is a bad idea. Here is why think the way I do. Don't like "made for linux" "linux inside" "made for windows "revision here".
Well we wouldn't have to do this type of thing if Microsoft was playing fair... Did we or even now do we lock away code and information for ourselves? NO!
Honestly if it weren't such a problem with the big boys giving such minmal support and then other players developing systems that lock out open source altogetther e.g Windows Genuine advantage and WINE or photoshop CS2 and WINE (this product needs windows to install)
The whole motivation of this is to bring it back to a level playing field and how do we do that ? well the saying comes to my mind Money Talk$!
PS I have the domains linuxpetitions.org and endorsedbylinux.org and welcome contributions from anyone in regards to site layout - Just remeber to keep the navigation very simple - something that we all would like to use.
I will put up some basic goals and in terms of what we want to accomplish - but it's going to rely heavily on the community as a whole since this is who I want represented and the synergy will create a huge amount of momentum
Cheers
Medieval_Creations
February 9th, 2007, 10:35 PM
I too think this would be a great idea. We've all had our successes and nightmares with different hardware.
\\:D/ I would be willing to help out any way I can. \\:D/
mickbuntu
February 9th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Yes well that is exactly what I want!!!!
Something with the idea that has a scale on a one to five based on
-Level of support from developers
-Availability of Information
-etc
-etc
Well we wouldn't have to do this type of thing if Microsoft was playing fair... Did we or even now do we lock away code and information for ourselves? NO!
Honestly if it weren't such a problem with the big boys giving such minmal support and then other players developing systems that lock out open source altogetther e.g Windows Genuine advantage and WINE or photoshop CS2 and WINE (this product needs windows to install)
The whole motivation of this is to bring it back to a level playing field and how do we do that ? well the saying comes to my mind Money Talk$!
PS I have the domains linuxpetitions.org and endorsedbylinux.org and welcome contributions from anyone in regards to site layout - Just remeber to keep the navigation very simple - something that we all would like to use.
I will put up some basic goals and in terms of what we want to accomplish - but it's going to rely heavily on the community as a whole since this is who I want represented and the synergy will create a huge amount of momentum
Cheers
Actually think see where your going with two paragraphs above. Your vision of the list is for short term pickup of linux users (leveling the scale). Rather then eventually abolishing the idea of lists. The fight of the Windows verses linux hardware will range on :-P
Hum........ the idea of having a professional site in my view is promising whoever suggested the idea. But it should really be accurate (the list) Could it be done? It should have no discrepancies be to the "t" accurate. Remember their will be professional users that will appreciate not having to return the item. Because the list listed something 100% compatible. Can second hand eople be trusted for quality rather then vendors?
Crashmaxx
February 9th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I think this sounds like a great idea. I just have a couple thoughts about this:
1. We need to setup a group or organization for this purpose, it should be some sort of body or authority to determine and maintain this list.
2. It should follow free and open source ideas. In that, stuff like Nvidia cards SHOULD NOT get this Linux Endorsed stamp of approval. But the can be mentioned on this site or list, but just under the subset of "Hardware that works well with Linux, but is not kernel supported" or something along those lines to emphasis that many distros can't use it out of the box and that Nvidia refuses to release open drivers.
So pretty much, this needs to be similar to any standard sanctioning body out there. We would have standards, codes, and a set of ideals we would follow before we gave a stamp of approval. That way, this list will have some real meaning and this stamp will be something companies and consumers can strive for. But I am not against listing well working, but not properly supported hardware, as it is good to be practical, but the caveats have to be listed explicitly.
%hMa@?b<C
February 9th, 2007, 11:50 PM
I would be more than happy enough to contribute my time and skills to this project
dvarsam
February 10th, 2007, 12:35 AM
No, it doesn't.
We're not talking about a list of any hardware and how well it works or doesn't work with Ubuntu.
W'e're talking about a list of only hardware that does work and works well with Ubuntu.
Ok!
Then I am voting for it!!! :)
P.S.>BTW, now that you mentioned this...
...I just finished adding "Categorization" under Motherboards in the Ubuntu Wiki - look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsMotherboards
I hope you like it! I just sub-categorized Mobos in the Following way:
Mobos
-------
|
|
|- Amd -
| | | | | |
| | | | | | -- Socket A
| | | | |
| | | | | ---- Etc etc...
| | | |
| | | | ------ Socket 754
| | |
| | | -------- Socket 939
| |
| Socket AM2
| | | |
| | | | --- Asus Mobo Brand
| | |
| | | ----- Etc etc...
| |
| |
| MSI Mobo Brand
| | |
| | | --- MSI K9N SLI Platinum
| |
| | ----- Etc etc...
|
|
|- Intel -
| | | | |
| | | | | --- Socket 1
| | | |
| | | | ---- Socket 478
| | |
| | | ------ Socket 775
| |
| | -------- Etc etc...
|
|
|- Via -
| | |
| | | --- EPIA Series
| |
| | ----- Etc etc...
|
|
|--------- Etc etc... ----------
In the previous version, everything was mixed up!
Take a look at it & tell me what you think...
Thanks.
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 01:27 AM
I would be more than happy enough to contribute my time and skills to this project
Awesome, but I think this thread has become about two different projects.. perhaps you could IM me on Jabber or something?
My proposed project (and the one Stex has offered to help with) is a complete Hardware Compatility list that would basically be able to sort out low rated hardware to give you "recommended hardware"
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 05:42 AM
YACL
Yet Another Compatability List :D
So will hardware that uses binary blobs be counted as "just works"?
maddog39
February 10th, 2007, 05:52 AM
Yes this would be awsome to have. To just go soemwhere and buy "certified" hardware per se.
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 06:08 AM
YACL
Yet Another Compatability List :D
So will hardware that uses binary blobs be counted as "just works"?
Depends on the distribution. If I can plug it in and that distribution automatically detects and gets the thing configured, then obviously it "Just works" with that distribution. As for anyone else who's interested in the idea, I'm trying to get the Gimp to agree with me enough to produce a rough layout design for the website.
Would anyone who's actually interested in collaborating with me on this Linux hardware compatibilty site send me a PM just saying what you can offer. We're not going to turn anyone who wants to help away, but we need to know who can do what. Thanks.
Oh, and Deanlinkous, please go troll another thread please. We're trying to do something productive for Linux in general.
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 06:11 AM
(heads up) There have been numerous attempts at hardware compatability lists. They rarely work at all and at best work somewhat! They all die rather sudden deaths.
If this could be accomplished, dont you think it would of already?
Do you think the linux community has done nothing over the past 10 years and only ubuntu users can come up with ideas like this?
Maybe this is a part of the "real world" that I am soooo out of touch with.
Is this going to be a ubuntu only list? Since different kernel tweaks means different hardware support.
Yes, I will leave you to recreate the wheel yet again. Obvious example of the Ubuntu Community and how it is totally seperate from the community.
Leaving.....have fun
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 06:16 AM
(heads up) There have been numerous attempts at hardware compatability lists. They rarely work at all and at best work somewhat! They all die rather sudden deaths.
If this could be accomplished, dont you think it would of already?
Do you think the linux community has done nothing over the past 10 years and only ubuntu users can come up with ideas like this?
Maybe this is a part of the "real world" that I am soooo out of touch with.
What you are is annoying, and immature. There is a proper way to do this, and we're going to do it the best we can, if it gets off of the ground. This has enourmous potential, provided the communities contribute, as the list would most like be kept and updated by the communities for the communities.
Again, Go away.
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 06:23 AM
okay just a little FYI
you are dealing with a almost limitless amount of variations - good luck
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 06:38 AM
okay just a little FYI
you are dealing with a almost limitless amount of variations - good luck
Adjustments would be made accordingly.
As it stands (in my mind, which means the design is flexible) my ideal site would work like this:
The nav bar on the left would be used to sort through menu entries to get to your desired hardware. The basic design of things would be as follows:
Example:
-Hardware Type (Printer)
--Brand (HP)
--- (Model)deskjet F335 All-In-One
This would bring you to the page for the HP deskjet F335.
On this page you would see:
a picture of the item
Ratings (By distribution and specific distribution version)
For instance:
Ratings:
-Ubuntu
--6.06 Dapper Drake: 8 out of 10
--6.10 Edgy Eft: 9 out of 10
User Reviews/Comment/Details (These would be sorted by distribution as well)
Again, this data would be uploaded by the user base themselves, since they would be building the hardware compatibility list. Hopefully, through careful moderation and decent involvement from the communities, we could get a Hardware Compatibility list that would work for all distributions.
If you simply want to see what Printers are going to work with Ubuntu however, perhaps something would be added to the site to sort through and select all of the printers that have a 8 rating or higher, or have been branded by the community to "Just work".
Disclaimer: These are strictly my ideas, I haven't collaborated them with anyone so they're subject to change. This is just what I envision being a good website design for this type of project.
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 06:46 AM
you dont think the internals of a product change during manufacturing?
the same piece of hardware on one system may work, yet put it on a different system and it may not....
connection type? supported usb port or parallel port
irq conflicts? bios differences?
gimp-print, cups, lp, something else?
Sounds like a good plan. Implementation will be the rough spot. limitless data...limitless...
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 06:59 AM
you dont think the internals of a product change during manufacturing?
the same piece of hardware on one system may work, yet put it on a different system and it may not....
connection type? supported usb port or parallel port
irq conflicts? bios differences?
gimp-print, cups, lp, something else?
Sounds like a good plan. Implementation will be the rough spot. limitless data...limitless...
We'll adjust accordingly, either way, it would have at the very least the same data that can be found on any distribution specific HCL. So it would be at least as good as those, if not better for the comments system.
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 07:03 AM
Yes soundcard 4232 works, in a pci slot, with a dell dimension 3200 that was purchased around 5/07 and contains via chipsets ver409, and has bios version A05, and the bios settings are X-Y-Z and only if I have installed lp and it is not using irq 5
kinda useful.... last good luck I will wish ya - good luck
aysiu
February 10th, 2007, 11:12 AM
More naysaying posts from deanlinkous? Hasn't this been done already?
Stex
February 10th, 2007, 11:24 AM
More naysaying posts from deanlinkous? Hasn't this been done already?
There are good points being made, just have to take it with a bit more optimism/determination. Just strengthens my belief that this project would not be an easy fix, would need to be designed carefully and would need some experts on linux hardware to get the right database.
Also, with the main idea still being endorsement the compatibility list would merely be a backend to the site. No compatibility list can be perfect but all we need is enough for people to go on to suggest the best hardware out there.
mickbuntu
February 10th, 2007, 04:42 PM
I am in support of this idea after all like said before. The main expectancy on the list would be more user friendliness then the current lists. Ex: The current lists that are floating around on the internet usually list hardware that is partially working. So the idea here as intended is for a list that has "100%" compatible hardware. It will have to take into account any variations (in support of poster above has a point). Want to share, recently purchased a Radio shack fotoplus (intentional marketing spelling) The list inside the program of gtkam (front end) listed that model as supported (ok we are talking about two oppsits just sharing). Ran out and bought the product. It turns out somehow the revision on the chip is different. Nor linux, nor the usb it is attached to would work. So kind of see my point? a slight change inside a piece of hardware with the same characteristics can cause havoc. This list needs something and cant think of anything right now. That would make sure that any given listed hardware stays "100%". Depending on when the end user buys that piece. Many times the hardware manufacturer does not release the latest internal changes. It is very nice when they write like piece-revision-D. But not all the time so some of the concerns here. In any case if their will be a place that I can jump in to make a difference I will. Do not yet see that, perhaps something comes up will let the community know.
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 04:50 PM
It can't be perfect, but we can make it as detailed as possible without being overbearing to the user. I'm noting though that when I buy a Wireless card, printer, etc. I'm not told "Works with this bios, etc." I'm just told it "Works with Windows" or "Works with MAC OSX"
The user maintained compatibility list would *AT THE LEAST* offer that much, probably more detailed since it would be by distribution and individual release. (In my mind)
Some problems would be:
We would need a system to keep duplicate versions of the same hardware out, but still allow for duplicates for say each version number on a wireless card
If things were done how I imagined it, a list of distributions would have to be maintained. Since we will obviously be a smaller team this means we would most likely have to limit the amount of distributions that the site supports to the big ones that people are using the most.
Those are two of the problems nagging at my brain. Careful moderation could help with the first one though.
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 04:56 PM
I am in support of this idea after all like said before. The main expectancy on the list would be more user friendliness then the current lists. Ex: The current lists that are floating around on the internet usually list hardware that is partially working. So the idea here as intended is for a list that has "100%" compatible hardware. It will have to take into account any variations (in support of poster above has a point). Want to share, recently purchased a Radio shack fotoplus (intentional marketing spelling) The list inside the program of gtkam (front end) listed that model as supported (ok we are talking about two oppsits just sharing). Ran out and bought the product. It turns out somehow the revision on the chip is different. Nor linux, nor the usb it is attached to would work. So kind of see my point? a slight change inside a piece of hardware with the same characteristics can cause havoc. This list needs something and cant think of anything right now. That would make sure that any given listed hardware stays "100%". Depending on when the end user buys that piece. Many times the hardware manufacturer does not release the latest internal changes. It is very nice when they write like piece-revision-D. But not all the time so some of the concerns here. In any case if their will be a place that I can jump in to make a difference I will. Do not yet see that, perhaps something comes up will let the community know.
Every user will be able to contribute something. Simply go and load up your hardware, what kind of laptop you own, Printer, Web Cam, wireless card, graphics card, motherboard ANYTHING. The more information that the COMMUNITIES feed the site the better it would be. Everyone will be able to contribute ratings for their specific distribution and release so that someone can find relevant information right now. When I talk about contributing at this point though, I'm referring to being able to fulfill a need that we have in order to even get the site off of the ground.
Again, to all interested parties:
I have added my IM client names for every account I have (including Jabber) so that you can contact me to ask me questions, find out what's happening etc. If you would like to drop me an email, or private message please, by all means. I do need to know how many people are actually interested so that we can see what we still need before we can kick this off. Thanks to everyone!
dvarsam
February 10th, 2007, 06:18 PM
This already exists!
No, it doesn't.
We're not talking about a list of any hardware and how well it works or doesn't work with Ubuntu.
W'e're talking about a list of only hardware that does work and works well with Ubuntu.
Well, look here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=68342
Isn't this similar to what you are talking about?
P.S.> This Forum is full of ideas!
The problem is that nobody cares to implement them...
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 06:18 PM
More naysaying posts from deanlinkous? Hasn't this been done already?
Yes, and now (if they did not already) they have some idea of what they are facing. With todays "wiki" technology and so forth it certainly stands a better chance of actually suceeding since it can be updated by the user.
But (more naysaying) I just think you will have BOB saying it works on his dell dimension 1250 and SUE saying it does not work on the dell dimension 1250 and both will be right - dell is well knownfor having varied system components during a run of a model.
Most things are negative - if you choose to take them that way. :D If someone never see the positive that comes from being negative....then someone missed a important learning lesson IMO.
newbie2
February 10th, 2007, 06:50 PM
I love the idea but how anyone could implement it would be a nightmare. For example how high should the standards be? Should we recommend hardware from manufacturers who release source code more than those who don't? Price ranges, recommended lists cut down user freedom etc...
Maybe we should just stick to a list of hardware that absolutely works, as in properly and perfectly, out the box. Best case scenario is pushing a "Linux Supported" sticker as shown on the RecommendedHardware page.
- Just a suggestion to throw out there, I'd still prefer to see a recommended hardware page if people can work out how to make one.
maybe a list with 'star-quotations' like restaurants with 1 or 2 or 3 stars (or ubuntu-logo's instead of stars ) . :mrgreen:
Adamant1988
February 10th, 2007, 06:52 PM
maybe a list with 'star-quotations' like restaurants with 1 or 2 or 3 stars (or ubuntu-logo's instead of stars ) . :mrgreen:
Well, this is going to be distro agnostic. I was thinking about the star metaphor myself, but I think there is some room to play around with that.
aysiu
February 10th, 2007, 07:31 PM
Yes, and now (if they did not already) they have some idea of what they are facing. Nice try.
There's a big difference between saying, "This sounds like a great idea. Keep in mind that you will be facing some obstacles (outlined here), but you may be able to make some progress if you do X, Y, and Z" and saying "Another attempt? Ha! It's not going to happen. Don't you think this has been done before? Stop reinventing the wheel."
The first is what you're pretending now to have said.
The second is more like what you really said.
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 07:58 PM
Well there is enough "great idea" comments thrown around I just thought I would dispense with the trivial drivel... :)
I apologize. I did not realize we all had to be shiny happy people with smiles on all the time. Negative is a part of community, maybe not Ubuntu community though.
aysiu
February 10th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Negative is okay, as long as it's constructive.
These remarks are not constructive:
YACL
Yet Another Compatability List
(heads up) There have been numerous attempts at hardware compatability lists. They rarely work at all and at best work somewhat! They all die rather sudden deaths.
If this could be accomplished, dont you think it would of already?
Do you think the linux community has done nothing over the past 10 years and only ubuntu users can come up with ideas like this?
Maybe this is a part of the "real world" that I am soooo out of touch with.
you are dealing with a almost limitless amount of variations - good luck You may like to live in a black-and-white world where you are either unreservedly positive or extremely negative, but there is a middle ground. You can be encouraging and appropriately cautioning at the same time.
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 09:48 PM
You can be encouraging and appropriately cautioning at the same time.sure you can but is it required? I wasn't encouraging because I do not want to encourage it. Is that okay? I wanted to be cautioning (is that a word) and that is all. Some of the users on this forum are young and only have ubuntu experience so I was being informative about what has came before in the community.
Did you notice the "good luck" that was true well wishing but with sarcasm since I know that it is highly unlikely they can accomplish the goal.
You also left out my smiley on the YACL joke. :D
You also cherry picked my responses to try and prove your point about me being negative. I offered a lot of good information that they obviously either had not thought of or were not aware of. So I would argue I am being negative and positive and while that is not a "grey" of encouraging and cautioning I would consider it both sides covered.
The problem with not being black or white on everything is the grey is so slippery. You start with white, then justify just a little grey, then before long that grey becomes the default "white" and you choose a little more grey and before long you end up on the black and you never even realized how you got there. That is also called a slippery slope and personally I just prefer not to put one foot on it muchless dance around on it.
But as stated in the other thread - I gotta get some stuff done. So for a while you will have to do without my presence. It will be boring. You will miss me. Yet, when I return you will immediately wish I was gone again. :D Thorn in the side that you miss...
mickbuntu
February 10th, 2007, 10:04 PM
The problem with not being black or white on everything is the grey is so slippery. You start with white, then justify just a little grey, then before long that grey becomes the default "white" and you choose a little more grey and before long you end up on the black and you never even realized how you got there. That is also called a slippery slope and personally I just prefer not to put one foot on it muchless dance around on it.
I am not young, little bit less then MTV age, lol but I am really lost on that above. Not picking on you honestly, my face that the internet can not reveal shows actually a friendly smirk. Can you please explain what you said about the gray and white? In fine grain it sounds so cryptic to me unless your referring to colorblind. O:)
shining
February 10th, 2007, 10:13 PM
I am not young, little bit less then MTV age, lol but I am really lost on that above. Not picking on you honestly, my face that the internet can not reveal shows actually a friendly smirk. Can you please explain what you said about the gray and white? In fine grain it sounds so cryptic to me unless your referring to colorblind. O:)
I think he's trying to say that unless you are totally for an idea (white), you will have some hesitations (some grey), and it'll quickly lead to failure of the idea (black).
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 10:16 PM
Some...I said some are young and I only said that in regard to possibly not knowing about other efforts related to hardware compatability.
Issues should have two sides. You should choose ONE of those two sides. If you do not then you may find yourself on the other side and never realize how you got there.
You compromise a little, before long you forget that little bit and comrpomise a little more, and so on....
Ask your english instructor how to write a GREAT paper related to moving people. They should tell you that you never try to encourage a large change or try and move people a large amount. You simply slide in just a tiny change, show them how that one little tiny change is going to be good for them. You leave out where you are going with the change. Once they accept that tiny little harmless change and have forgotten it, you do it again, and again....
Uh okay, how about substances. You try a little XYZ and it makes you feel good, you think you can control it because it is just a little. Before long you do a little bit more because that first little bit isn't hurting you and you like it. Before long XYZ has control of you and you do not know how you got there.
Best I can do..... :D
I GOOOTTTTTA GO
(yummy discussion everyone even adamant)
mickbuntu
February 10th, 2007, 10:16 PM
Ok thanks for trying to make sense of it to be easier to understand non philosophically. Just ran out of popcorn while staying on the ubuntu forums. :popcorn:
deanlinkous
February 10th, 2007, 10:18 PM
I think he's trying to say that unless you are totally for an idea (white), you will have some hesitations (some grey), and it'll quickly lead to failure of the idea (black).
Nope aysiu said I am a black white kind of person, whereas grey is the correct way to be. I do not agree in any form.
Unique thought you have though...I could probably find that useful. (yummy)
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 03:53 AM
Some...I said some are young and I only said that in regard to possibly not knowing about other efforts related to hardware compatability.
Issues should have two sides. You should choose ONE of those two sides. If you do not then you may find yourself on the other side and never realize how you got there.
You compromise a little, before long you forget that little bit and comrpomise a little more, and so on....
Ask your english instructor how to write a GREAT paper related to moving people. They should tell you that you never try to encourage a large change or try and move people a large amount. You simply slide in just a tiny change, show them how that one little tiny change is going to be good for them. You leave out where you are going with the change. Once they accept that tiny little harmless change and have forgotten it, you do it again, and again....
Uh okay, how about substances. You try a little XYZ and it makes you feel good, you think you can control it because it is just a little. Before long you do a little bit more because that first little bit isn't hurting you and you like it. Before long XYZ has control of you and you do not know how you got there.
Best I can do..... :D
I GOOOTTTTTA GO
(yummy discussion everyone even adamant)
Wrong. Moderation is a great thing, it's amazing how well you can see both sides when you're sitting on the fence. Making an informed decision with all of the information from both sides of the argument usually means a better decision in general.
Anywho...
Anyone who is interested in helping out, please PM me or something. I'm thinking I may set us up a cheap free forum to get started on until we get things off the ground.
mickbuntu
February 11th, 2007, 04:13 AM
Wrong. Moderation is a great thing, it's amazing how well you can see both sides when you're sitting on the fence. Making an informed decision with all of the information from both sides of the argument usually means a better decision in general.
Anywho...
Anyone who is interested in helping out, please PM me or something. I'm thinking I may set us up a cheap free forum to get started on until we get things off the ground.
K I pmed you using your jabber account let me know if you have any roles for me. <bad idea nevermind last part>
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 04:16 AM
K I pmed you using your jabber account let me know if you have any roles for me. What about starting on sourceforge?
That's odd, I didn't get a PM of any sort. Odd indeed. Try my AIM or some such thing. I'll try to figure out why I'm not getting Jabber messages..
euler_fan
February 11th, 2007, 05:24 AM
I like the idea--so long as endorsed stays as "works really well with Linux variant X" and does not get captured by the hardware vendors.
EDIT: Maybe a good add-on would be a seal of some sort "Certified Linux Compatible" or something like that.
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 05:28 AM
I like the idea--so long as endorsed stays as "works really well with Linux variant X" and does not get captured by the hardware vendors.
EDIT: Maybe a good add-on would be a seal of some sort "Certified Linux Compatible" or something like that.
That's a wonderful idea! perhaps after a certain number of users rate something as "Just works" for Linux for that distribution it would recieve a "ribbon" for that distribution.
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 06:57 AM
I know I wasn't as clear as I should have been verbally about what I thought the Recommended Hardware List/ Hardware Compatibility List would look like... here's just a site skeleton I made up in the gimp.. it kind of shows you what I'm thinking..
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3144/mockupskeletonio1.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mockupskeletonio1.jpg)
Critiques, comments, concerns? (Yes I know I didn't add in a button for getting "recommended hardware" I'm thinking that can be a nav bar at the top, I'll add it in next time I make changes)
deanlinkous
February 11th, 2007, 07:13 AM
Okay. nice idea and mockups I will admit!
I still think it will likely be of little value but....
Seriously, you should take your idea to Carmony or Robertson and you might get some funding for it or at least some hosting and so forth. Could possibly be something that want to integrate into CNR or something. Seriously....
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 07:22 AM
Okay. nice idea and mockups I will admit!
I still think it will likely be of little value but....
Seriously, you should take your idea to Carmony or Robertson and you might get some funding for it or at least some hosting and so forth. Could possibly be something that want to integrate into CNR or something. Seriously....
If the CNR website wants to add it they will be able to.. I'm sure a link to "Linux endorsed hardware" wouldn't be a hard thing to do. But the site we're working on is actually going to be hosted by a member of the freespire community, at a great rate, it will be distro agnostic and so forth, as you can see from my mockup. Granted, my idea wasn't agreed upon, I'm just throwing it out there to get critique.
deanlinkous
February 11th, 2007, 07:31 AM
You seem to be treating it as simply a HCL page. It could be everything the CNR warehouse is for commercial software. It could literally be a one stop shop and would be the exact thing to complement CNR.
(yuck phooey blah) :)
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 07:58 AM
You seem to be treating it as simply a HCL page. It could be everything the CNR warehouse is for commercial software. It could literally be a one stop shop and would be the exact thing to complement CNR.
(yuck phooey blah) :)
Part of the goal is that you should be able to "one stop shop" there. The difference is that we (or at least myself) do not care to profit from this. The only thing we would want money for is to pay the hosting and domain bills. Hitting the "Buy it" button would simply send you to the official product purchase site.
It's our opinion that this is just something that Linux needs, that the people who want to switch to Linux need. Hopefully this site could be the "one stop shop" for deciding how linux compatible your computer is, or finding out if that MP3 player you're looking at is compatible. Or maybe just picking out an mp3 player or computer that you want to buy.
deanlinkous
February 11th, 2007, 08:10 AM
What is the official product purchase site?
Someone that lives in the "real world" should be thinking about partnerships, discounts on the products, and so forth... (my dark side kicking in)
raising revenue that could be donated to hardware driver projects - if you want to make it sound like a "good" community project :D
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 08:16 AM
What is the official product purchase site?
Someone that lives in the "real world" should be thinking about partnerships, discounts on the products, and so forth... (my dark side kicking in)
raising revenue that could be donated to hardware driver projects - if you want to make it sound like a "good" community project :D
I live in the real world. But this is not what I would consider to be something I would want to make money on, I would however like to be able to say I contributed. Sure, there are opportunities here to make some money, but frankly I stop at saying we would sell ad space to the tier 2-3 OEMs who sell linux pre-loaded systems, and that will just be to cover expenses. As for the "official product purchase site" For the one in my mockup (which is my actual printer model)
It would be through the manufacturer, if that's not possible through a trusted store-chain that sells it. Either way the link would take you directly to a site where it could be purchased.
deanlinkous
February 11th, 2007, 09:02 AM
Exactly. You are the "real world" guy that talks about proprietary and making profits and exerting a little control if it is good for the user....If all that is good then why not apply it liberally to other things.
If you do not take it to KC or MR then I may have to do it myself. I can make the money, gain the popularity, and claim ownership of the idea....maybe even a patent or two to go along with it. Certainly some trademarks.... Click-Buy-Deliver CBD! Man I could get back into this "real world" stuff.
trusted store chain? Trust has no place in the real world. Trust me :D
Stex
February 11th, 2007, 12:12 PM
What is the official product purchase site?
My first thoughts (and still the best idea in my mind) would be to collect a lot of retailers and search sites, amazon, [g/fr]oogle, kelkoo, etc. most of which will have affiliation schemes. Giving the user the choice is the obvious best way around it in my eyes. This kind of flexibility will need to be written into the system for locales anyway so we might as well expand it to many retailers.
Affiliation is a wonderful thing to get some free money out of from this scheme, we're encouraging people to buy the products and they're there to buy them so there's a high likelihood that they will. (money for covering bills of course, I also have no intention of profiting)
%hMa@?b<C
February 11th, 2007, 03:05 PM
mockup, keep in mind it is not final,
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5482/untitled1le3.jpg
doobit
February 11th, 2007, 03:13 PM
I would think it would need to be "endorsed for Linux" or "recommended for Linux" since Linux is not a single entity that can endorse anything.
%hMa@?b<C
February 11th, 2007, 03:29 PM
I would think it would need to be "endorsed for Linux" or "recommended for Linux" since Linux is not a single entity that can endorse anything.
endorsedbylinux.org is the domain he registered
Stex
February 11th, 2007, 03:34 PM
I'm still wondering, does the owner of endorsedbylinux.org already have some written code/design? Is the goal now to create this site or to expand on the work already done?
Nice mock, I think cute/web2.0 looking things is a good direction to go. Linux users rarely support eyecandy but it's definitely what this friendly & usable site would want. The difficulty would probably be between making it look like a trustworthy, OSS site and somewhat like an online store.
I think some real linux experts are needed so the necessary content can be chosen. Probably the hardest bit of the project would be the communication between the experts for content and the layout designer for the usability.
doobit: True, but these items would be endorsed by consensus of linux users, if you were going to define linux as an entity I'd certainly call it the community of users.
%hMa@?b<C
February 11th, 2007, 03:52 PM
I think that if possible we should try to get some sort of deal with a hardware reseller (like newegg or something)
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 05:57 PM
Exactly. You are the "real world" guy that talks about proprietary and making profits and exerting a little control if it is good for the user....If all that is good then why not apply it liberally to other things.
If you do not take it to KC or MR then I may have to do it myself. I can make the money, gain the popularity, and claim ownership of the idea....maybe even a patent or two to go along with it. Certainly some trademarks.... Click-Buy-Deliver CBD! Man I could get back into this "real world" stuff.
trusted store chain? Trust has no place in the real world. Trust me :D
Your condescending attitude is starting to really get annoying. Do not badger me about a project that I'm participating in for nothing less than good will. Besides, this is to be distro agnostic, we may talk to Distribution founders and communities about donations to get us running, but we will not charge the users or control them. Kevin Carmony is a good man, but If he attempts something like this you know it will be restricted to the *spire distributions. The goal of this list is to be usable for all distributions.
The website design and any scripts created to make it work better will (of course) be available to anyone who wants to use them. (I think we call that "open-sourcing" them) We want anyone who has the ability to do anything to help us to be able to help us. If someone would later like to build on what we've started, well, if that's their prerogative then I have no complaints.
Yes, there is opportunity here to be closed, proprietary, and attempt to make money from the good Linux users that just want an HCL. But that's money I don't want, I'll be happy with the $50 a month that it would take to cover server space and the domain name. We can get that from donations.
deanlinkous
February 11th, 2007, 06:29 PM
Your condescending attitude is starting to really get annoying. Do not badger me about a project that I'm participating in for nothing less than good will.
Nothing condescending about it at all. Not badgering you either. I apologize if you felt like it was either/both. "Good will" is one of those idealistic measures and has no place in the real world. Why would you argue that "real world" attitudes are just fine for one persons project and that it is a good thing for linux adoption yet be so put off by someone suggesting it for this project? Seriously, I am asking because I do not understand the difference. I am suggesting the exact same type of service that CNR is providing and you argued vehemently that CNR was a good thing. Why would it not be a good thing for this project?
Kevin Carmony is a good man, but If he attempts something like this you know it will be restricted to the *spire distributions. The goal of this list is to be usable for all distributions. Have you heard about CNR? You must of. It is not limited to *spire in fact they have partnered with ubuntu and are working on other distros. Isn't this perfectly in line with what you want to do?
Yes, there is opportunity here to be closed, proprietary, and attempt to make money from the good Linux users that just want an HCL. But that's money I don't want, I'll be happy with the $50 a month that it would take to cover server space and the domain name. We can get that from donationsThat is not "real world" thinking at all. Donations? You would probably be lucky to get $5 donations in a year since users will think that you are probably getting a cut of the profits from a sale since you provide direct links to sellers. (real world thinking)
Nobody said you had to be closed and proprietary to make money. Remember CNR is going to be opensource too.
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 06:36 PM
Ok, well, I don't feel like contributing to your threat hijacking, condescending attitude and generally being annoying. So you're on my block list until the project the project gets underway.
deanlinkous
February 11th, 2007, 06:44 PM
I am offering you pearls of wisdom here.... Can you point out the statments I made that are condescending or annoying? How exactly am I hijacking the thread? Can you offer proof of your statements?
%hMa@?b<C
February 11th, 2007, 09:45 PM
I am offering you pearls of wisdom here.... Can you point out the statments I made that are condescending or annoying? How exactly am I hijacking the thread? Can you offer proof of your statements?
you are not 'hijacking the thread' per-se, but nothing you have said has been helpful or encouraging.
Adamant1988
February 11th, 2007, 09:46 PM
I've created a small free PunBB (open source forum software) site where anyone is welcome to join and get involved.
Feel free to sign up and give us any input at all. I'm working on producing a "statement" about the project. :)
http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/endorsedbylinux/index.php
We'll eventually move to another site for our forums.
SteelCore
March 23rd, 2007, 04:13 AM
What's your opinion on creating an ubuntu endorsed list of hardware?
It is a must....no doubt about it
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