PS3 = proof that computer hardware is overpriced ?

[NoTiG]

SO they just released the new specs for the PS3 ... I realize that the part where they make money is in the games... not the components.. but still... They are going to sell it for like what ? 400-500 ? But the components themselves are going to RIval like 2,000 system. THe graphics card alone outperforms 2 of the most expensive graphics cards now! . Isnt that proof that computer hardware could be sold for less ? maybe not quite as cheap as that but still........

Anyways... does anyone think PS3 will ever be hackable and able to run Linux?

[TravisNewman]

PS2 is, so why not?

[NeoChaosX]

I'd wager Sony will release a Linux kit for PS3, like they did for PS2.

Of course, it's probably going to have some numbskulls incorrectly claiming the PS3 is powered by Linux again. :-|

[darkoptix]

Also, take a peek at the xbox360 specs. Holy hell, that's pretty fast, linux would run smoothly on that anyday. God, the original xbox (the day has come where I have to say original) is really underpriced considering the hardware inside.

[poster_nutbag]

Considering the original Xbox, Microsoft lost money on every one they sold, so perhaps it's not surprising that they were cheaper than an equivalent PC

[NoTiG]

Considering the original Xbox, Microsoft lost money on every one they sold, so perhaps it's not surprising that they were cheaper than an equivalent PC

but how much did they lose ? lets say the new PS3 or xbox 2 will be 10% under its actual cost so they will loose slightly. and lets say they sell for $400. so then add $440 would be the actual cost. THen lets say DOUBLE that... so they can have 100% profit and that would only be $880 . Now ... when these things actually come out... Lets say they compare to a $2000 system. So i think what that means is that not only are they profiting off hardware its alot more than 100% !!! they are gouging the market right ?

[bored2k]

Also, take a peek at the xbox360 specs. Holy hell, that's pretty fast, linux would run smoothly on that anyday. God, the original xbox (the day has come where I have to say original) is really underpriced considering the hardware inside.
Actually, the PS3 is a lot faster.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/614/614837p1.html

[HungSquirrel]

Anyways... does anyone think PS3 will ever be hackable and able to run Linux?
Both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 will run on PowerPC derivatives. As such, it should be trivial to get Linux, BSD, or perhaps even Mac OSX to run on them with a little tweaking. We shall see.

[TravisNewman]

ha. Microsoft is using a PPC derivative? That's kinda funny.

[HungSquirrel]

ha. Microsoft is using a PPC derivative? That's kinda funny.
Yeah, I didn't believe it myself, but they're doing it. IBM is going to make a killing on the upcoming console war. ;)

[NeoChaosX]

Yeah, I didn't believe it myself, but they're doing it. IBM is going to make a killing on the upcoming console war. ;)
Haha, yeah. As one guy on Slashdot said, "IBM is the real winner of this console war".

[WildTangent]

im surprised there was no clause in either contract regarding manufacturing for competitors, seems unlike the big console giants. wasnt it a contract that kept rockstar from putting GTA on xbox for so long?

-Wild

[macewan]

Actually, the PS3 is a lot faster.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/614/614837p1.html

damn

[bored2k]

damn
In the year 2000 , supercomputers reached 1teraflop, now well have unreal tournament 2007 with 2.2 teraflops. scary.

[poofyhairguy]

ha. Microsoft is using a PPC derivative? That's kinda funny.

My guess is because the Gamecube (which had a PPC chip) turned out to be almost as powerful as the original Xbox at a fraction of the production price.

[HungSquirrel]

What I'm waiting for is a Microsoft console running embedded Linux to conserve resources. ;)

[Lovechild]

I was under the impression that the PS3 would actually be running a custom version of Linux underneath the hood.

[Stormy Eyes]

I was under the impression that the PS3 would actually be running a custom version of Linux underneath the hood.

If Sony modded Linux in order to make it work on the PS3, wouldn't they be obligated under the terms of the GPL to release these modifications? If Sony wanted a custom Unix OS, I think they'd be more likely to use BSD due to the license.

[Amarack]

I have a really hard time believing that Sony is going to use Linux in that way. Stormy Eyes pointed out one problem. Plus the idea that Sony would give that much support to Linux just doesn't feel like the time for that has really come yet. However, I do really like the idea of buying a computer with those specs so cheaply and running linux on it. Maybe I can have my next desktop be a desktop and a game console... hm.. the possibilities are endless.

[mostwanted]

The new Xbox 360 developer kits are PowerMacs and the graphical demos at the Xbox 360 release were done on Macs :) Maybe Microsoft is slowly abandoning X86 hardware.

[bored2k]

All I can say is.. that Killzone 2 trailer .. wow

[Stormy Eyes]

I was impressed by the LoZ: Twilight Princess trailer myself. And I won't even have to buy new gear to play it. :) I didn't think Nintendo would make Link wolf out.

[bored2k]

I was impressed by the LoZ: Twilight Princess trailer myself. And I won't even have to buy new gear to play it. :) I didn't think Nintendo would make Link wolf out.
I haven´t seen that one (not a big Nintendo fan over here -- though Revolution has me going nutz). What do you mean by wolf out ?

[shador]

but how much did they lose ? lets say the new PS3 or xbox 2 will be 10% under its actual cost so they will loose slightly. and lets say they sell for $400. so then add $440 would be the actual cost. THen lets say DOUBLE that... so they can have 100% profit and that would only be $880 . Now ... when these things actually come out... Lets say they compare to a $2000 system. So i think what that means is that not only are they profiting off hardware its alot more than 100% !!! they are gouging the market right ?

Just a minor flaw in your thinking there. Sonys loosing on the machine will be waaay over 10%. Before MS announced that they were going to sell the X360 for about 330 Dollars Sony was planning to release PS3 at a cost of 800 dollar. And even with that price they would loose money on every machine.

I think that the price on nex gen consoles will be quite decent in compared to the advanced technology in them. Especially PS3 :)

[Stormy Eyes]

I haven´t seen that one (not a big Nintendo fan over here -- though Revolution has me going nutz). What do you mean by wolf out ?

As in, turn into a wolf the way David Banner would "hulk out" by turning into the Hulk.

[NoTiG]

Just a minor flaw in your thinking there. Sonys loosing on the machine will be waaay over 10%. Before MS announced that they were going to sell the X360 for about 330 Dollars Sony was planning to release PS3 at a cost of 800 dollar. And even with that price they would loose money on every machine.

I think that the price on nex gen consoles will be quite decent in compared to the advanced technology in them. Especially PS3 :)

Which would give them ample reason to try to encrypt everything and lock it out so that you can't install linux and use it instead!!

BUt that IS what I am interested in. If its more than 10% then how much is it ?? i would like to know.........

[WildTangent]

if someone hacks the PS3 and puts linux on it, i guaruntee ill buy a second one and use it as my desktop, with specs like that....why bother buying a normal PC, they cant keep up!

-Wild

[shador]

if someone hacks the PS3 and puts linux on it, i guaruntee ill buy a second one and use it as my desktop, with specs like that....why bother buying a normal PC, they cant keep up!

-Wild
I don't see why it even needs hacking. The PS3 will include a slot for 2.5 inch HDD. Detachables. If that is the case than U should be able to install Linux on it right?
What am i missing?

NoTIG: I would estimate that their loosing on their machines under at least the first year will be 60 to 70 %. But of course they will get those money back. Sony (and MS and Nintendo) takes an amount of money from every game that is sold. That's why console games are about 12 Euros more expensive than PC games (at least here in Sweden).

[Stormy Eyes]

NoTIG: I would estimate that their loosing on their machines under at least the first year will be 60 to 70 %. But of course they will get those money back. Sony (and MS and Nintendo) takes an amount of money from every game that is sold. That's why console games are about 12 Euros more expensive than PC games (at least here in Sweden).

It's the Gillette Method: give away the handles, and make money off of the blades.

[shador]

It's the Gillette Method: give away the handles, and make money off of the blades.


LOL :D Exactly dude \\:D/ I'll remember that description ;)

[blinksilver]

not if you buy the handle (ps3) and build your own blade (linux) for free (then you make out like a bandit), the only problem is that there will be no graphic drivers.....oh well i will just be happy with my 7 cpu cores for work and boot in PS3 for play

i wonder how fast gentoo will compile on that....

[bored2k]

Although I'm interested in seeing any of these machinas running Linux, I'm more interested in seeing they're Online capabilities. I'd be more than glad to pay any fee for a good online experience. (All you tekken wannabe's, watchout, the B2K is coming at y'all..)

[poofyhairguy]

(All you tekken wannabe's, watchout, the B2K is coming at y'all..)


Anytime B2k....

[bored2k]

Anytime B2k....
Off topic: Favorite tekken entry ? character ?

In my case:
Favorite and quite possibly the game I was hooked up the most ever was Tekken 3.
I was known to be a PaulPhoenix/J.Kazama juggernaut. T5 is good, but it doesn't feel "right".

[Stormy Eyes]

Although I'm interested in seeing any of these machinas running Linux, I'm more interested in seeing they're Online capabilities. I'd be more than glad to pay any fee for a good online experience. (All you tekken wannabe's, watchout, the B2K is coming at y'all..)

Online, eh? I've played Neverwinter Nights online, and while it was fun when I could actually join a party and do some serious ****-kicking, it seems as though online gameplay is just one treadmill after another. There's no end-boss, no ending, no final victory where you can say, "Damn, I can't believe I finally won." I'm not too impressed with online gaming, to be honest. Maybe Guild Wars will be better, but there's no Linux support for that yet AFAIK, even with Cedega.

Personally, I'd like to see what Square Enix does with the PS3 when they do Final Fantasy XIII, and Metroid Prime on the Nintendo Revolution.

[bored2k]

Online, eh? I've played Neverwinter Nights online, and while it was fun when I could actually join a party and do some serious ****-kicking, it seems as though online gameplay is just one treadmill after another. There's no end-boss, no ending, no final victory where you can say, "Damn, I can't believe I finally won." I'm not too impressed with online gaming, to be honest. Maybe Guild Wars will be better, but there's no Linux support for that yet AFAIK, even with Cedega.

Personally, I'd like to see what Square Enix does with the PS3 when they do Final Fantasy XIII, and Metroid Prime on the Nintendo Revolution.
Online play is enourmously fun. Think about a game like Killzone2/Halo3 being played by 6 people in story mode WITH an ending. BTW, online games dont necessarily need to be MMORPG's. A tekken/any fighting game with online play just rocks. DeadorAlive2 with 4player online slugfest ? insane. Unreal Tournament 2004 .. 32 players sluggng each other ? Insane. Half Life: COunter Strke Source? Please make me stop now.

About MMO's, theyre not jus games with online capability, theyre in a league of their own. I see MMO's as an online community. Theyre just that. Or perhaps your own 3D rendered tamagotchi.

[poofyhairguy]

Off topic: Favorite tekken entry ? character ?

In my case:
Favorite and quite possibly the game I was hooked up the most ever was Tekken 3.
I was known to be a PaulPhoenix/J.Kazama juggernaut. T5 is good, but it doesn't feel "right".


Tekken Tag is still king. With the Mishima dream team (Jin and Heihachi) I destroy mortal men. Love that crouch dash.

[crane]

So has any one got an Xbox woth linux on it? I saw one the other day in a pawn shol for 78 dollars and almost bought it just to try installing linux.
Any thoughts?
Oh and does it have a network port?

[bored2k]

So has any one got an Xbox woth linux on it? I saw one the other day in a pawn shol for 78 dollars and almost bought it just to try installing linux.
Any thoughts?
Oh and does it have a network port?
Xebian is a debian port for the xbx.

[bored2k]

Tekken Tag is still king. With the Mishima dream team (Jin and Heihachi) I destroy mortal men. Love that crouch dash.
Ahh TTT. I was never a big TTT fan. I spent endless hours playing T3 though.. then I tried T4 and It wasn't really good. Then tried VFighter 4.. good but not my style. Then SoulCalibur2. Ok I stopped there and stayed there. That and T3 rule. Then we got T5.. pretty graphics, really improved from tekken3. But I just remember my slugfests with that game, specially a weekend I basically owned everyone at a hotel I went and han a tekken slugfest. Me and my best friend that is [he owns me with cheap eddy).

[Stormy Eyes]

Online play is enourmously fun.

I think you have to be the social sort to enjoy online play. I'm not particularly sociable (the last time I saw a shrink, he diagnosed me with 'schizoid personality disorder' after a single session and told me to eat some Prozac), so online play doesn't do anything for me. I view videogames as puzzles to be solved, something to be mastered. If I still played MUDs, I'd probably considered an "achiever" by those who classify MUD players into types by playing style.

[bored2k]

I think you have to be the social sort to enjoy online play. I'm not particularly sociable (the last time I saw a shrink, he diagnosed me with 'schizoid personality disorder' after a single session and told me to eat some Prozac), so online play doesn't do anything for me. I view videogames as puzzles to be solved, something to be mastered. If I still played MUDs, I'd probably considered an "achiever" by those who classify MUD players into types by playing style.
Social applies to MMO and MMO's only. The best part about online play is that you know you're not going against/with a stupid predictable bot. It's good to go "how the ____ he do that or ____ he's good !" rather than "ok so if I burning fist him he'll block and then I'll left sidestep him and sweep him till his little bar reacher -5".

I'm not very social either. At all. The only type of social life I can -to an extent- enjoy is the one were the other person is not looking at me dead in my eyes nor I am looking at his, wich is why I enjoy forums/videogames.

If you'd like to test yourself, register at the gamespot's forums. If you're bound to like MMO's, youll love the talk nothing else than non productive trash community. I was a frequent there, but then I stopped visiting to play Half-Life 2, and THEN with just 3 levels to go, I found ubuntulinux, then ubuntuforums. End of story.

http://www.gamespot.com/user/profile.html?user=bored2k
I still get "do you want to become a founder of the X gaming clan?" PMs lol.

[Ubunted]

From macrumors.com:



1) The processor is not a G5.
2) The processor has similar characteristics to the power core, but that's it.
3) It has a very reduced instruction code--specific to the regular needs of the Xbox.
4) It only calculates in-order operations.
5) Because of #3 and #4, it is able to bump up the speeds.
6) High clock speeds does not mean more performance.
7) The cpu is designed for gaming graphics. It won't run spreadsheets or Pagemaker, or Filemaker as well as a real G5.
8) Apple and Steve Jobs did not get shafted by IBM. The cpu is "custom," designed for the Xbox, and it's highly stripped down. I'm sure IBM is hard at work making improved "true" G5s for Apple and others to use.

[NoTiG]

IF ps3 added a kit or something to make their console also act as a computer (with maybe a bluetooth keyboard and mouse) wouldn't that sway more gamers to their console ? the only reason i can think of why they wouldn't is because the hardware manufactureres might get shafted if more ppl decided to buy consoles and computer hardware sales dropped.

[FrozenBubble]

The reason ps3 is so cheap is because the manufacturer is actually selling the hardware at a loss and recupes their exprenses with the games. A similar situation "free" cell phones where they nail you with contracts

[dickohead]

From macrumors.com:
I was waiting for someone to mention this. The idea of a gaming console is what - to play games.... so - a PC processor does indeed do more than a gaming console, you also have the fact that the hardware in a PC is designed to work with other hardware - good luck adding more RAM to a gaming console... not likely!!! The next logical step for these gaming consoles is of course, multimedia centres - they have the video power, hard drive space and memory allocated to stream digital video from the harddrive - or, with a gigabit connection - across the internet? Foxtel? Anyone else seeing where we're headed here.... who needs:

Amplifier
DVD Player
Gaming Console
CD Player
Foxtel/Other
Digital TV

When the next gen "gaming" consoles are already technically equiped to do it all? I think we are seeing machines designed to do a lot more than they are being sold for - either purely just to see if they can, or because Sony saw what was happening and decided they should do something to ensure their future in the home entertainment market......

If music had never left records - none of this would have happened! :o)

[wellery]

According to this the PS3 harddrive addon will run linux.
http://www.geektyme.org/article.php?story=20050614153652905

[benplaut]

According to this the PS3 harddrive addon will run linux.
http://www.geektyme.org/article.php?story=20050614153652905

old news... that was posted a while ago :wink:

[BWF89]

Anyways... does anyone think PS3 will ever be hackable and able to run Linux?

Sony plans to have Linux preinstalled
I read an interview with some sony guy that said that if you want to buy an official Sony HDD for the Playstation 3 it will come preinstalled with Linux.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/09/news_6127219.html

[NoTiG]

By the way... I read an article that said it will cost $400.... and the actual cost of the hardware is $500 so they will loose 100 $. IT will be interesting to compare the price of an equivalent computer, with the ps3 when it comes out. Will a computer with the same functionality cost double the ps3? ie... will a computer that can do what ps3 does cost 1000? That would mean prices are doubled... but i bet thats not the case. I bet an equivalent computer will be $2000 + prices quadrupled.

Which is kind of funny... automakers gouge the market for what? like maybe 10% profit on each car? and computer hardware gouges like 400% . (estimation)

[Kvark]

By the way... I read an article that said it will cost $400.... and the actual cost of the hardware is $500 so they will loose 100 $. IT will be interesting to compare the price of an equivalent computer, with the ps3 when it comes out. Will a computer with the same functionality cost double the ps3? ie... will a computer that can do what ps3 does cost 1000? That would mean prices are doubled... but i bet thats not the case. I bet an equivalent computer will be $2000 + prices quadrupled.

Which is kind of funny... automakers gouge the market for what? like maybe 10% profit on each car? and computer hardware gouges like 400% . (estimation)

Those numbers are seriously flawed. Let me repeat some things others said earlier...

First of all, you can't change graphics card or other parts in PS3. That means the hardware in PS3 only needs to work with one graphics card model, and only one model of each other hardware type. While PC hardware needs to work with any model of any hardware type. It is a huge saving that it only needs to work in one single combination instead of countless of combinations. This fact surely cuts the production cost at least down to half.

Secoundly PS3 is specialized for one task. It doesn't matter if it sucks at spreadsheets, word proccessing, databases, or any other task. It is a lot cheaper to perform in only one area then to perform in any area, even areas you didn't imagine someone would use the machine for. This also cuts down production cost quite a bit.

Also it is not only the actual production cost that drives prices of PC hardware. Add development costs, commercials, legal issues, paperwork to organize it all, royalties to patent holders, packaging, shipping, middle hands, resellers and taxes. So comparing the rumoured production cost of $500 with the final price tag on computers is pretty pointless.


Lastly. What matters is royalties from the games. This comparison is just as pointless as...

"You can get a cellphone for a dime, proof that electronic gadgets are overpriced?"

[NoTiG]

First of all i never said those prices were exact. thats why i put estimation. And secondly the $500 dollars isnt some rumor.. it was in an official article and I read it somewhere. Your concept of why it should be cheaper is flawed... take a laptop for instance. It is not modular. it is designed for one task (a computer) . so it should be cheap right? The ps3 IS a computer.... the only thing different about it than a regular computer is that some of its memory is dedicated differently than a regular computer .. to graphics. But you WILL be able to use it as a regular computer. saying its something completely different is retarded.

If prices follow supply/demand i guess, then if the price was inflated its because they cant supply the demand. I guess its not so bad, considering the environental toll it takes of throwing away computer parts. It is just a bit of wishful thinking ... "imagine if i could build this computer for maybe... double? of what it costs". instead of quadruple. Or whatever the percentage is. THe point of this article was just to conjecture how much the price is over the actual costs it takes to produce it. if you are not interested in finding that out then dont bother posting. We will probably find out anyway once it comes out.......

[Kyral]

A little off topic but...

Anyone know the launch dates for the new consoles?

On-Topic...Kinda: Anyone else annoyed with Consoles that try to do everything? I didn't get the PS2 and XBOX because they tried to do too much. I got the GCN because it did everything I wanted to, GAME. I can understand if people don't have computers its nice, but I do have a rather cutting edge computer and I use that for multitasking. Even in the handheld market, the PSP is more of a PDA than a handheld. The next Game Boy will be able to hurt it bigtime.

</rant>

Oh, anyone know when the new Zelda is gonna come out for GCN?

[NoTiG]

Sony plans to have Linux preinstalled
I read an interview with some sony guy that said that if you want to buy an official Sony HDD for the Playstation 3 it will come preinstalled with Linux.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/09/news_6127219.html


I think ps3 might be my next comp :P if only it came preinstalled with ubuntu......

[NoTiG]

A little off topic but...

Anyone know the launch dates for the new consoles?

On-Topic...Kinda: Anyone else annoyed with Consoles that try to do everything? I didn't get the PS2 and XBOX because they tried to do too much. I got the GCN because it did everything I wanted to, GAME. I can understand if people don't have computers its nice, but I do have a rather cutting edge computer and I use that for multitasking. Even in the handheld market, the PSP is more of a PDA than a handheld. The next Game Boy will be able to hurt it bigtime.

</rant>

Oh, anyone know when the new Zelda is gonna come out for GCN?

Well... how else would you make a console? it just happens that what it takes to run a console is ideally suited to be run with computer - like parts. How else would you make a console if not with computer parts? and if you have those parts.. then it is capable of doing more than just gaming, so why not include that additional functionality as an option with an optional hard drive?

[WildTangent]

for the most part, more=better to people. if they see 2 consoles, and 1 can do more than the other, chances are, theyre going to buy the one that does more. the mindset is, if my console can play games, download my email, and make my coffee, its cool :D lol

-Wild

[poptones]

Those numbers are seriously flawed. Let me repeat some things others said earlier...

First of all, you can't change graphics card or other parts in PS3. That means the hardware in PS3 only needs to work with one graphics card model, and only one model of each other hardware type. While PC hardware needs to work with any model of any hardware type. It is a huge saving that it only needs to work in one single combination instead of countless of combinations. This fact surely cuts the production cost at least down to half.

Secoundly PS3 is specialized for one task. It doesn't matter if it sucks at spreadsheets, word proccessing, databases, or any other task. It is a lot cheaper to perform in only one area then to perform in any area, even areas you didn't imagine someone would use the machine for. This also cuts down production cost quite a bit.

Also it is not only the actual production cost that drives prices of PC hardware. Add development costs, commercials, legal issues, paperwork to organize it all, royalties to patent holders, packaging, shipping, middle hands, resellers and taxes. So comparing the rumoured production cost of $500 with the final price tag on computers is pretty pointless.


Lastly. What matters is royalties from the games. This comparison is just as pointless as...

"You can get a cellphone for a dime, proof that electronic gadgets are overpriced?"

I quoted it all because you raise some great points. Hopefully without this netting me one giant collective groan from everyone in the room I would like to ask this:

If you would pay 500 bucks (or less) for a dedicated game machine, that allows you to play only one licensees games (ie in this case Sony) but also allows you to use it for other functions like reading email, typing papers, printing them out and other stuff one might otherwise use a desktop for - then how is this any different than buying a TCPA and DRM-ized "Microsoft PC?"

It's the exact same device. The only difference is how it is marketed. Games machines like these prove the public at large is quite willing to accept DRM - most of you who game already do. All publishers need to do is find a better way to market it... which, I suspect, you will be seeing within the next 6-9 months.

[allforcarrie]

The new Xbox 360 developer kits are PowerMacs and the graphical demos at the Xbox 360 release were done on Macs :) Maybe Microsoft is slowly abandoning X86 hardware.

and apple is going to x86.