What advice would you give to women who think Linux is "hard"? [Archive]

some_random_noob

February 1st, 2007, 02:32 AM

PurplePenguin

February 1st, 2007, 04:35 AM

some_random_noob

February 1st, 2007, 04:57 AM

Isn't this why there are live cds? No need to install anything.

I'm not a woman, so this is my cue to stop interrupting. :D
um... seriously? The broadband is slow ^&^%$(*ing slow in New Zealand that no one would dare waste their bandwidth on something that might not even be worth it.

I asked for opinions so that I can show others this thread - that way people can read the opinions of Linux users. Downloading a live cd is a bit um... well, I want non-Linux users to hear advice straight from Linux users. No one will just use a live cd - but if someone knows that other people use Linux and read their experiences... then... that makes more sense doesn't it?

raul_

February 1st, 2007, 05:05 AM

I'm a guy, but i usually find that if women are taunted, they do anything they want ;) just sat something like "oh pff...you just find it hard because you're a woman, you're inferior"

You'll get the crap beat out of you, and she'll never talk to you again, unless she calls you to tell you that she is using Linux with Beryl running :P

(not a serious post though)

some_random_noob

February 1st, 2007, 05:09 AM

meng

February 1st, 2007, 05:10 AM

(Also not a woman)

I can't see this as a true women's issue. There are plenty of men who take the same "it's too hard" approach to Linux. Sure the proportions may differ between the sexes, but it strikes me as a common attitude all around.

-Phi-

February 1st, 2007, 05:16 AM

Yeah, live CDs is what it's all about. They can get one mailed to them free. That's what the mailing thing is there for. They try it out and decide for themselves. If it's too different from Windows, then they should stick with what works for them. Also, I agree with the previous poster that the woman thing is more or less irrelevant. I've long since learned that it's not worth forcing things on anyone without their interest.

Anyway, being a woman I'll answer your questions, but I don't think it will be helpful:

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
No harder than Windows was to set up and configure certainly, but I don't think people who use computers as tools only are interested in doing any set up and configuration. I don't really see why they should be.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No. I find it more intuitive than other operating systems I've used. If it wasn't, I wouldn't use it.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
My computer :) Mine! Google helps some :p

- Does it meet your needs?
95% of my needs (mostly internetting). The other 5% are met by Win2K running CS2 for campus magazine layout design.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Haven't used Vista. From what I've seen, I think it will confuse a lot of people, so yes, I would consider Ubuntu to be a good alternative as far as less confusing. Whether it's a good alternative for XP or Win2K depends on what a person is used to using, whether they're willing to learn, and what programs they need to run.

- Phi

raul_

February 1st, 2007, 05:21 AM

Thanks for wasting my time with a completely useless post, I really needed that.

I was counting on your capacity of understading the point :-k but ok, here it is:

They say that they can't, but they can. If they don't want it, that's another story. Hand them a Live CD and say "Browse!!". It's normal that they don't want to install it, probably they didn't even install Windows, it came with the computer. I think Ubuntu is just complicated if you want to do your tweaks. If you leave it alone it's just straightforward.

Again, be annoying, ask why they find it difficult, convince them that is not, give them graphical guide instead of saying things like repositories, packages, kernel, text editor, tool, blablabla. Have an expert set her computer up, just like she got her Windows set up too.

Pikestaff

February 1st, 2007, 05:22 AM

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure? It was very easy to install... the setup and configuration took a little bit of work and there were times when it frustrated me but the community is large and helpful and I had everything set up within a day or two.

Do you find Linux hard to use? Nope

Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff? Nope, I installed it and set it up myself ^^

Does it meet your needs? All except for some PC gaming that I do, but I use a Windows comp for that (I have two computers; I use my Windows computer mostly for gaming, and Linux for... basically everything else, because I prefer it.)

Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista? I don't know because I haven't tried Vista =P But I think it gives XP a run for its money, so I assume it will stand up to Vista pretty well too.

Also, don't just answer the questions, what I'm looking for is an overview of what you think about Linux. How much *** does it kick? Is it really that "nerdy" and "hard" as people claim it is? Would you recommend it to other women as a good alternative to Vista? ... just write about your experience and how you found it compared to Windows - you could also write a direct message as I might send this thread to other people. You don't have to answer my questions, those are really just for suggestions.

I think Linux is kinda nerdy but honestly that was one of its major draws for me... I love being a nerd and wanted to broaden my nerd horizons. I don't think it's hard, Ubuntu anyway... I think it helps to be at least "okay" with computers but you don't have to be a computer genius or anything at all. I would definitely recommend it to anybody as a good alternative to Windows. ^^ I prefer it to Windows overall, it's cleaner, more secure, more customizable, and it's free. And there's a lot of great stuff that I really appreciate... for example, the terminal might seem kind of scary at first, but it's so easy to just punch in "install [insert program here]" and it does it for you. So yeah anyway, I'm a girl who has had largely good experiences with Linux, and I plan on exploring it even more in the future!

meng

February 1st, 2007, 05:25 AM

Well although I'm not a woman, my wife is (gasp!). She doesn't get the choice of what to use at home (it's all Linux) or what to use at work (it's all Windows). She doesn't find Ubuntu that much different from Windows in terms of intuitiveness; it's certainly no LESS intuitive than Windows. But neither does she concern herself much with issues of OS installation or maintenance. So between us we satisfy the gender stereotypes with respect to computer use.

Sunflower1970

February 1st, 2007, 06:07 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

Installing, and setting up, no. Very easy. Configuring a bit was a challenge (my graphics card, printer/scanner, TV tuner, and a 56K modem, 5-button mouse, and numlocks on my keyboard to be on when I start up) But now that I know exactly what to do, it's easy. (Next challenges are to buy a wireless card and configure that :) ) Same with Windows, though. First time I had to reinstall 98 and also XP it was a challenge. Now that I know what to do, it's easy.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No. For most of the stuff I do it's quite simple.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Nope. Did it all myself. Only help I received was from this forum, a google search and from a few books I picked up.

- Does it meet your needs?
You bet. It actually exceeds my needs each and every day. I'm more amazed by what I can do each day, too. And all the free programs at my disposal. It's almost overwhelming what's out there, and what I should choose to use.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Heck yeah. Looking for an alternative to Vista was my goal. I never wanted to upgrade to that monstrosity. I began researching back in December, had a computer crash with XP, not long after my research began, and I was more resolved than before to find something that would be more stable than a Windows product.

Also, don't just answer the questions, what I'm looking for is an overview of what you think about Linux. How much *** does it kick? Is it really that "nerdy" and "hard" as people claim it is? Would you recommend it to other women as a good alternative to Vista? ... just write about your experience and how you found it compared to Windows - you could also write a direct message as I might send this thread to other people. You don't have to answer my questions, those are really just for suggestions.

It really depends on the person I'd recommend it to. There's a lady at work, now, who I've talked to about Ubuntu and Edubuntu a bit, and she's interested in the Edubuntu for her nephew. Although she's not that computer-savvy, she probably wouldn't mind using it. There's another lady, though, who, when something goes wrong on her computer, she just goes out and buys a new one, giving the older ones to her son to do whatever he wants with. I've told her about Ubuntu, but I know she will never try anything new. She's one that I would just recommend she go ahead and get Vista because it'll suit her needs the best.

towsonu2003

February 1st, 2007, 06:09 AM

(not a woman)

The problem I encounter[1] is the pure lack of interest in computers at all. I can't sell Linux to any women that I know, because they just won't listen (it's boring to them).

Interestingly, people I know, especially women, are very uninterested in computer issues.

[1] This wasn't an advice. So why did I posted that here? To incorporate my problem to yours and get some advice on human interaction ;)

homh

February 1st, 2007, 06:56 AM

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

It was fairly easy. I had to change my computer to first boot from the CD. After that it was just answering a few questions and I accepted all the defaults. I thought it was easier than installing Windows XP.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

No. Its not very different from Windows XP. Some things are done different but mostly I use my computer to do things online and it works mostly the same. The things that are done differently arent that difficult to pick up and this forum has been helpful. But I worked for a long time with Windows programs.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

ME! It was all done by myself.

- Does it meet your needs?

Yes. I use my computer mostly for the internet or to do some word processing and things like that.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

I have never used Vista and dont know anything about it. Its sounds awesome but I am concerned about some issued with Vista relating to cost, hardware, anti-piracy measures and the like. I think its a good alternative to Windows XP and actually easier to use. I dont have to worry about viruses and spyware. There were times a file in Windows would get corrupted and say I was missing xxx.xxx file and I wouldnt know what to do. So far no problems. Biggest issue is it doesnt run windows software and a person has to adapt to that. If your tied to windows software it could be a problem.

I dont think this is a gender issue. Many women are very experienced with computers but everyone is different. I have been using computers for several years but wansnt into modifying anything. Just being a user and websurfer or preparing reports in MS Office.

I dont know a lot about what is under the hood of my car but I know enough to operate it.

fog

February 1st, 2007, 08:41 AM

The only reason that the women (and the majority of men) use windows, is because they exist in the computer.
If somebody can install and use windows, can also install and use Linux. I began to use Linux when I was 35 years old,
with minimal experience in computers.
Now I help others to install Linux and make the tweaks. If you start with Linux, you will find windows
installation or the windows software installation a nightmare. Habits, only habits....

If you want the best os out there, you can have it. There is not excuses, just try it and make Google your friend.

EmilyRose

February 1st, 2007, 03:45 PM

Once installed and setup, linux is no harder, IMO than windows. In the past, that was definetly true (2, 3 years ago), however, today it is not. If their hardware is properly detected etc setup isn't too bad either - but if its not, it can be a real pain. Installation has gotten better, but is still a bit on the confusing side, thanks to partitioning.... but if you can get past that, your golden.

mkurdziolek

February 1st, 2007, 05:05 PM

I'm a woman, but I'm a computer science major and complete technology nut. I love trying out new things on my computer and just messing around...

However, I think most women see computers as a tool to complete actions (email, internet, chat, word documents, spreadsheets...) and not really something they would like to spend a lot of time on trying to get it to work. Since Windows usually comes installed with computers you buy, it might be easier just to use that then look into another operating system.

Maybe if you really pushed that Linux is more secure, has all the cool features you could want, and comes with community support, you could convince them to switch. (I would time your argument to right after they experience a windows crash ;) for a better effect.)

K.Mandla

February 1st, 2007, 09:41 PM

If they knew me in real life, they would have no problem letting me install Linux on an old computer as a demonstration, however like I said I'm talking online - none of them live anywhere near me so I can't show them what Linux is like and they won't try it out themselves.
Only a little off-topic, but are these sites of any help?

http://ubuntuclips.org/
http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/
http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/

It might at least add a visual element to the introduction. And some of them are step-by-step video tutorials on installing.

Just a slightly off-topic idea ...

Auria

February 2nd, 2007, 02:52 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

It took me half an hour just to get an mp3 file playing, following contradicting tutorials i found a bit everywhere on the net. i don't mind since i'm a computer nut but that will turn away many users. Fortunately Festy is supposed to fix that

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

Once it's installed, no. But installing stuff can be a pain

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

Did all on my own!

- Does it meet your needs?

No, because all of my hardware is very poorly supported. Though if i was on more supported hardware i would probably use Ubuntu as my main OS.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

Vista is not an alternative to me :P

jms1989

February 3rd, 2007, 04:40 AM

Now I'm not a woman but I could give some advice about Linux.

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
No, It was rather simple compared to XP or Vista.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Sometimes, depending on what my goal is.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
No, Installed everything by myself. After main OS install, something I had to ask for help with.

- Does it meet your needs?
Close, the only thing missing is iTunes.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Definitely. I have tried Vista in it's early stages but the program compatibility was tough. Some would work without a prob, but others would simply refuse to work. What drove me to Linux is it's stability, virus-free, simple interface, easily customizable, and free.

When I started having problems with windows freezing, after while I started to get aggravated and constantly yelled at the computer, I looked for a alternative system. I first tried Debian, it wouldn't make it pass the bootup stage. When I found Ubuntu, It installed without too many issues. I've been using it since August 2006. The only problem I had was getting the wireless network card to work.

So you see, my preference is that I want stuff to just work. If it's going to give my problems, I would want to use something else. In my opinion, I think the majority of the people in this world want things to just work. If it's going to give us errors after errors than we don't want anything to do with it anymore. We can, however, encourage people who have problems to try something new on their system.

I understand that the PC gamers out there wont like the fact that they can't run their favorite games on Linux, but currently that is how Linux is. In the future, the game creators may find that much of the money they make off the games is diminishing because of communities effort to bring windows users closer to Linux.

Ok, maby I'm not giving advice but it was on my mind.

Now, this statement is for the windows users. Linux isn't hard to use, it's easy once you learn simple commands and get used to the new method of installing programs. The names are different, but your common browser "Firefox" isn't. There is something that windows would never dream of and that's freedom.
Freedom to do what you please, without the cost. So you can keep your computer running in tip-top shape, it won't give up on you. Remember those forbidden websites that would flood your system with junk, would not have a effect on you. You can just laugh at those nasties.

Your instant messaging software would be kopete (It can connect to AOL, AIM, ICQ, Yahoo!, and many others). Amorok for your music. OpenOffice.org for your word prcessing. Firefox for accessing the internet. Those are some general programs, if you need help just ask us.

Now I will hush and post it.

Yours,
jms1989

Severa

February 3rd, 2007, 10:45 PM

*IS a woman so throws her 2 cents in the ring*

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

Nope. Wiped WinXP off my hard drive, installed Ubuntu, put my stuff back on here (pictures/docs on CD-Rs, one DVD-R of music) Haven't looked back.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

I'm running Feisty Herd 3 and Beryl...soooo...the answer would be no. :lolflag: Course then again I was one of those computer geeks that was upset when Windows started doing away with DOS in their OSes so the command line don't exactly scare me much.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

I've been on these forums a lot, they've been a great help (hey I only started using Linux at ALL the week of Christmas, for Pete's sake!) But did I have someone here physically standing over my shoulder helping? no.

- Does it meet your needs?

For the most part yes. Right now tweaking Windows version of Firefox working so my two sons (ages 7 and 10) have a browser for their games (damned Shockwave and WMP!)

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

From what I've heard about Vista so far, yes. Even if I hadn't scrapped Windows from this computer, there was no way I was going to switch to Vista any time soon.

macogw

February 4th, 2007, 06:07 AM

utanja

February 5th, 2007, 05:13 AM

linux is as difficult or easy as you want it to be.....i run linux for more than 7 years now....

closetpirate

February 5th, 2007, 06:18 AM

I am a guy. But I find that women see computers like cars. They aren't interested in which os is used or how it is configured. Just how the cars runs and looks. They just want to be taught an easy way to do what they use it for. A woman will call a man or her man to help her do what she wants with the computer.

Difficulties between the OSs make little difference to her as long as she understands.

and as a whole windows is not any easier to use than linux just chances are they are more familiar with windows. But women also can appreciate the cost/value ratio too

To sum up my post I think that all women would use linux and well but struggle with transition just like I did or any Man would

Vomit-Orchestra

February 6th, 2007, 01:48 AM

The only advice I'd say, if you've never used it before to have someone you know on the side to help you. I had never used ubuntu, I had stuck with Gentoo and Fedora, Ubuntu is a lot more user friendly (and easy on the eyes!)

flamingandromeda

February 6th, 2007, 08:02 AM

I've been using Ubuntu since Breezy....my partner (a software developer) has done the install each time to date and he's been showing me what I've wanted to know as I've wanted/needed to know something new. Now, with his help I've even done my first testing for Feisty....and yes, I did install it myself.

I'm pretty sure though, that I wouldn't have got as far as I have if it were just me on my own....I would still be using Windows if it weren't for my partner, still grumbling about firewalls and anti-virus stuff too! I'd say now it's easier than it was two years ago (but that's from memory - and a fairly bad one at that!) to be able to use Ubuntu...but if I needed to know how to partition my hard drive forget it! I'm sure it's not that hard for someone who knows what they're doing...but even though I'd done a few IT papers at polytech at that stage, I still wouldn't have dared.

It's not because I think it's hard...you have to want to know (and know where to go to find out how) to be able to do some of the things I've now come to take for granted and for most people (most I know, men and women) their fields of interest are simply not any where near Linux. I came across a book at the library the other day "Linux for Non-Geeks"..it's an interesting book so far, includes install discs for Fedora and, from a brief perusal, useful step-by-step instructions to enable anyone (the authors 72 year old mother for one) to be able to use Linux.

kevinlyfellow

February 6th, 2007, 08:27 AM

This is a suggestion for anyone who is worried about the difficulty of a new os. Give them a livecd, and show them a program that they can enjoy playing with (knoppix is best for this). If they enjoy it enough to boot into the os every once in a while, tell them that you will install it on their computer for them. Eventually, they will explore the os enough and decide if they like it. This works great for people who enjoy simple games and don't really know much about an os. For instance, I once showed my mother knoppix, and showed her frozen-bubble. Pretty soon I had her using the command line to access her games (due to special options). She also named the penguins in the game "k-noppies". People who don't know what an os is don't think linux is nerdy, they just know its different and they will need to learn something new and they need a motivation to learn it. Also, don't preach to them, show them.

ankara

February 7th, 2007, 11:24 PM

my GF actually wanted to switch from XP. her laptop has 128MB ram and so it chugged and chugged and chugged. it took literally 5 minutes to get a usable desktop after bootscreen. ony prob is she got the laptop with works office suite and has a load of essential docs stored as .wps, i tried getting works to install through wine but alas, too many :fixmes'. ill have to wait until OO has libwps integrated. i cant be bothered going through hundreds of files with a document viewer and copy pasting them to Oowriter
until then i got permission to kill and reinstall xp with as streamlined amount of software as possible, no firewall or AV as its sat behind my ubuntu box using NAT. i use clamAV and AVG to check her drives from my machine every so often just in case. never found anything.

she wondered what happened first time she saw ubuntu on my machine but didnt need me to figure out how to browse etc, its a great OS for switching people from windows, just needs publicity

boredom_amused

February 10th, 2007, 07:49 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Linux was much easier to install, setup and configure than every version of windows so far, AND it's been more fun in its customizability purely in terms of aesthetics. However, the little issues and incompatibilities are somewhat of a hassle but the forums are thoroughly comprehensive. It's no more difficult, or even easier than say... installing a new sink. it can be a pain, but if you're not afraid to do it, it's very empowering.
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
using linux has been much easier to use than i had ever imagined. And it gets easier and easier every day esp. ubuntu. You can always find resources to help you out step-by-step.
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
my verge-of-puberty male cousin and I installed it together and we help each other out.
- Does it meet your needs?
all of them. writing papers, watching movies, listening to music, talking to friends, downloading the universe, playing some games to waste time.
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I think it is a fabulous alternative to Vista. Not only is it free or really low-cost, it's not going to go nuts on you all the time making you feel like you're losing your head and having to plead the bratface kid to help you. You can just plead on the forums where you don't have to see the brat roll her/his eyes at you.

xingmu

February 10th, 2007, 06:59 PM

First I gotta say that I am CompSci graduate, so of course I would consider myself very confident in using and learning more about computers. Furthermore, I don't think there is anything inherent in women that makes them Linux-adverse. But if they aren't confident in using computers, the chances of them willing to make the jump to Linux are slim.

If you want to convert a typical only-need-a-web-browser-and-word-processor Windows user, I think you have to keep a few things in mind.

They are probably going to need or want someone to walk them through it.
There needs to be a plan for them on getting continued support (whether for hardware upgrade, warranty repairs, workplace issues, etc.).
They need training time (and willingness) to get familiar with the new interface.
They are going to need a lot of patience with the very basics (e.g. Synap-what?!)
They need someone who can explain things in an approachable and understandable manner.

The great thing is that Ubuntu can really do a lot for these users. Their problems with viruses, spyware, and the like will just about disappear. They won't need to buy a lot of software (or cruise porn-filled webpages for serial numbers). And they get super cool features that Windows doesn't have for installing and upgrading software. Oh, also: their program menu will finally be organized enough for them to find the programs they need.

I gotta mention a short anecdote too. I just recently saw on another open-source project a woman calling for help on the forums. She said she couldn't get the software installed correctly and would be willing to pay someone to do it for her. In response, she got several responses with a very "lecturing-tone" about how she should take the opportunity to learn how the software works instead of just copping out and paying someone. Others tried to offer some technical support but it was aimed at way too high of a level (using a lot of developer jargon). Though the people meant well, suffice to say, I don't think their kind of help worked for her.

So here's my answers to the questions:
- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
When I first installed Ubuntu (back when it was Warty) on my laptop, there was some problems. I spent a bit of time both learning how Linux works and figuring out the specific fixes. However, my latest update to Edgy (as a complete reinstall) was a breeze. As for configuring, well... I would complain about multimedia codecs but that issue will be mute with Feisty, I guess.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Well, it's not particularly *hard* for basic tasks but it's different than Windows. When I was a first-time user, it took some time to get used to. And if you want to recompile the kernel, build source code, install Compiz/Beryl, it's more demanding than "point'n'click". Of course, the fun part about Linux is that it encourages you to push your boundaries and do new things (hey! why not learn how to develop a GTK+ app so I can that program I want but can't find for Linux?). Windows, on the other hand, keeps you comfortable enough you don't push the envelope (oh look, it's already there on download.com *point, click*).

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
No, but when I first made the switch I had a Linux enthusiast for a roommate. He saved me hours of time and headaches by answering those dumb, newbie questions. e.g. How do I install stuff? How come when I install some random package from Synaptic, nothing shows up in my program menu?

- Does it meet your needs?
Yes, very well. It's my only OS now.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I haven't seen Vista, but I surely don't plan on buying it. The only thing that is going to make me use Vista is if I need to build up experience in it for my job.

newbie2

February 10th, 2007, 07:56 PM

SCALE 5x: Women in Open Source
Written by Jem Matzan
Feb 10, 2007 at 06:39 AM

Today the Southern California Linux Exposition's fifth iteration kicked off with all-day mini-conferences on free and open source software in the health care industry and women in the free/open source software community. Since the sessions on women seemed to be the less popular, least business-friendly, and most interesting of the two subjects, that was the series I decided to sit in on. It was a life-changing experience for all who attended.

Resources for women in free software

Throughout the day, several Web resources were listed that reach out specifically to women in the free and open source software community, and in information technology in general:

* Debian Women
* GNOME summer outreach program
* LinuxChix
* GNOME women
* Fedora women
* Ubuntu women
* KDE women
* Apache women
* Systers
* Dru Lavigne's blog

http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/300/
:popcorn:

macogw

February 11th, 2007, 10:12 PM

I am a guy. But I find that women see computers like cars. They aren't interested in which os is used or how it is configured. Just how the cars runs and looks. They just want to be taught an easy way to do what they use it for. A woman will call a man or her man to help her do what she wants with the computer.

Difficulties between the OSs make little difference to her as long as she understands.

I dated a guy and converted him to Linux. Computers are not like cars. I don't care about cars. I spend all my time with a computer. And there are plenty of guys who don't know jack about computers. I refuse to date them. It's too annoying getting :confused: <-- that all the time from them. That severely limits the number of guys available, but oh well. I have to explain computers to guys daily. Guys aren't the only ones who want to know how it works.

FenrisAbraxas

February 12th, 2007, 12:51 PM

I'd say that if my mom can do it, anyone can do it. Yeah, I set it up for her (and I'm a girl), but she likes it better than what she had before (XP).

I'd also tell them to not be afraid to ask for help. Don't be scared away if a stupid guy says to stay out of it because of your gender. Guys have told me I shouldn't be into computers before too. It happens. Stick to it, and they'll STFU when you prove that as a woman you can do whatever you want. So, my advice is don't let guys dictate what women can and cannot do in order to scare you away from your techie side.

Agree. Specially in the part:

don't let guys dictate what women can and cannot do in order to scare you away from your techie side.

The only difference between a man and a woman is men have a ***** and women a vagina. Both genders have a brain and know how to use it (well with numerous exception with both male and female :P).

My mom used to use my Gentoo/KDE OS without any problems, my ex-girlfriend used to do her homework in my comp using Open Office without any problem.

And yeah i choosed Gentoo as my distro becasue, well err yeah i gotta choose something hard to install (now theres a GUI but i installed my Gentoo with just command line :P) to raise my "geek level" lol. But when Linux is setup with all the apropiate drivers and desktop shortcuts, every one, geek or not, male or female (which i hate to say becaus i hate to make a disctintion between genders) can use and learn.

I use Ubuntu in a laptop and Gentoo on my Desktop PC only have Windows XP for job related apps, and my gaming is reduced to Enemy Territory and Doom3 which are native Linux apps. That means 71 GB to Linux and 9 GB to Wind~1.

(Also i disagree on the SubForum UbuntuWomen... as if men cannot post here or women can't read the other forums... but well, things are like this here :P)

FenrisAbraxas

February 12th, 2007, 12:58 PM

I dated a guy and converted him to Linux. Computers are not like cars. I don't care about cars. I spend all my time with a computer. And there are plenty of guys who don't know jack about computers. I refuse to date them. It's too annoying getting :confused: <-- that all the time from them. That severely limits the number of guys available, but oh well. I have to explain computers to guys daily. Guys aren't the only ones who want to know how it works.

O.O i think i just fell in love... lol j/k yeah it's annoying when you say "sure as soon as i finish with compiling my kernel i'll be there". and you get the ":confused: why do u have to be THAT geek" or ":confused: i hate when you speak in another language!".

nursegirl

February 13th, 2007, 06:04 PM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

Depends on what version of Linux. Gentoo's pretty difficult, Ubuntu's definitely simpler, I bet that any version of Linux under the 1.* kernel would have been pretty tough.

I know it sounds like I'm not answering your question, but in advocating Ubuntu, you're much more likely to have success if you work at selling the distro, instead of Linux itself. We've been doing a rollover to Ubuntu desktops at my workplace, and the only way I managed to get it to move forward was by minimizing the talk of Linux (which everyone *knew* was hard and only for geeks) and increasing the talk about Ubuntu (which no one had heard of but it had a really nice webpage).

Anyhow, back to the question: Ubuntu was easier to install, setup and configure than Windows or other distros I've tried, but it was harder than buying a computer with everything pre-configured.

- Do you find Ubuntu hard to use?

The first two or three weeks switching to an OS is a little difficult, because nothing is where you expect it to be and equivalent programs have different names. On an ongoing basis, however, I find it easier than Windows and only slightly less usable than OS X.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

People on the forums and IRC help all the time, just like with Windows. Although with Windows it was more likely to be "Please look at my HiJack This! logs" and now it's more likely to be "What program in the repos does ...?"

- Does it meet your needs?

Most of the time. I still use OS X for graphics.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

If someone says that aren't comfortable with technology, why would they be switching to Vista? Vista's not less complex than XP, and it's still largely untried in large scale deployment. If someone's not comfortable with changing to Ubuntu, I'd encourage them to stay with Windows 2000 or XP for at least another year.

Other comments

Comments about how "women think of computers like cars" or assuming that not wanting to try Linux is a women's issue actually hurts your chances of advocating Ubuntu. The truth is, most people (not just women) want their computer to be like an appliance. They want to buy something and have it "just work" without much effort. So, the question isn't about their gender, it's about what Ubuntu could do for them to make their computing life easier and better. You don't find that out by going in and being a "Linux salesman." You find that out by listening to people, what they're saying -- sometimes over a long period of time -- and then honestly figuring out whether Ubuntu would make their computing experience better.

I believe that Ubuntu has the potential to do that, I really do, but only when we're telling the right people about it for the right reasons.

shadowboxer_k

February 20th, 2007, 03:15 PM

i installed ubuntu on my home laptop two weeks ago, and all i can say is i am super happy with it. now, onto the questions. having in mind i don't know that much about computers, and i have only used ubuntu so far, my answers will be written accordingly.

Q: Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

A: not at all. at times it can be a little challenging, but i find that stimulating and fun. challenging being the key word, not hard.

Q: - Do you find Ubuntu hard to use?

A: again, no. i find it much more intuitive than *******.

Q: - Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

A: nope. installation was a breeze and i did it all by myself. for whatever things i didn't know, i used google and this forum, which has been extremely helpful.

Q: - Does it meet your needs?

A: totally. my needs are pretty basic - i use my computer to surf, manage text, create subtitles, manage my music, watch movies, and to make my podcast. all works very, very well under ubuntu, and i can't say the same about windows.

Q: - Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

A: probably yes, although i don't consider vista an alternative, to second someone who wrote that earlier. if you care about the bling that vista offers, you can totally get that in ubuntu, without the humongous technical specs vista requires.

i have edgy, but i ordered a bunch of dapper ubuntu cds to hand out to my friends who are still afraid of linux. after finding this thread, i decided to make it an all-girls project. i'll let you know how it goes. :)

darklyndsea

February 22nd, 2007, 01:51 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Yes, but I have all sorts of strange problems Which only a few other people have.
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No, not once I figured out how to do things.
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
The first time, yes, because I knew nothing about installing Linux and ran into some problems (kind of hard to do anything at the command line when your keyboard only works part of the time)
- Does it meet your needs?
Yes, except for sound in Flash.
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
There's a reason my Vista partition is unused most of the time ;)

keesjelol

February 24th, 2007, 09:31 PM

I'm just starting to use ubuntu just to let you know

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
so far it hasn't been bad, i can find any information on how to do thing on forums. Still haven't connected to the internet wirelessly since my driver doesn't work, but thats netgears fault.
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
its a little challenging at first
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
my friend Dan, he's more like a teacher and not a okay do crazy stuff then leaves like the geek squad.
- Does it meet your needs?
idk yet
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
well here is the intresting thing, it all depends on what you want. i mean sure linux is pretty sweet, but for those people who used XP and don't do heavy computer work i.e. CS2 or 3; yet still use a computer often Vista offers the eye candy of linux with cool side gadets. Vista is what i'd basically give my mom, or anyone who has a 64bit since it runs really so much better than XP64(which is such a stupid idea).

thats my two cents.

back to finding drivers

StewieHead

February 25th, 2007, 03:27 AM

OK, I am by no means an expert, but this is what I've experienced since starting with linux about 3 1/2 years ago and having used debian/ubuntu the last years.

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Nope. For example installing ubuntu only requires one to push the right buttons here and there. Though, if I have weird hardware to configure afterwards, that might be a bit difficult, but that's what one have google and forums for:)

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Nope, not at all. Today things are so automatic and there are so many tools. That said, I love the command line and terminals, so I might be biased, but no, it's not harder than using windows.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
When I started out in 03 I was encouraged by friends over IRC, and they guided me through the process, they didn't install it for me. I've been very fortunate to have been surrounded by people who are helpful and good at explaining stuff, which have made me very confident over the years.

- Does it meet your needs?
Yup. Though sometimes I really wish Icould just buy a computer game in the store and just go home and play it without thinking about emulators and stuff, but I only play the sims on my computer, and that I have OSX for, so I guess I'm happy. And of course, it's wonderful not having to worry so much about viruses etc at the same time as I feel I get closer to my computer because I can change whatever I feel like and be in control.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Just the tought of vista (also known as the disneyland version of XP) makes me vomit, so yes. I can't see vista being able to do anything a pimped up linux installation can't do, and as far as I've understood, vista is all about the "wow" effect, not quality. OS X and linux gives me everything I need, and I can't imagine ever touching or using a windows machine again.

In general, what I love about linux is that there are so many options about it. If there's something one don't like - then install another version or tweak whatever one is not happy with. I also love that one can make it as simple as possible, or as pimped out as possible. Personally I like to keep it simple but I have friends that have played around with all sorts of 3d stuff and other fancy stuff.
If a person is used to windows, it's of course not the same and it will take some time to get into, but it won't take long, and it will be totally worth it.
Distros like red hat/fedora and ubuntu have made linux a lot more mainstream and user friendly, and although I still think that most people who use linux are "specially interested" in computing, I have no reserves to suggest it for people who have no computer skills at all - heck, I've recommended it to my mother and my aunts, as well as I usually have a couple of ubuntu cds in my purse when I go clubbing in case I meet some windows zealots that I feel should try something new.
I might be biased because I may be somewhat geeky myself, but I consider linux cool, not geeky, or at least it's geeky, but in a cool way. And while running linux, one has access to so many different tools that makes one want to explore more, for example I love to experiment with programming when I'm using linux because if I want to do the same in OS X I have to stress with using xtools and such in most cases when I can just open a terminal and my editor of choice in linux and play around like I feel like.

SarahKH

February 25th, 2007, 04:26 PM

To answer the OP. I'd walk away. "Computers are hard", "That sounds silly," etc, etc. To my mind you have just given me the impression of a valley girl repleate with popping gum. That aside you've also described people who... to be honest... it isn't worth bothering even mentioning Linux / Ubuntu to... nor would I mention I work in IT to them or you'll end up the tech-support-bitch... but that's something for another time :)

I'd simply nod, agree that computers are too complicated... and go back to fragging in Q4.

DragonTU84

February 28th, 2007, 02:32 PM

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

Not at all! In fact, I think it is EASIER than installing Windows! It installed in less than an hour, all with one CD, and it is also very easily configurable, which I like. ******* always took at least 1 hour 1/2 or more to install for me...usually at least an hour to sit waiting for the computer to install the drivers and whatnot...

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

Nope, it is VERY simple. All you need to do is run Synaptic (or Adept in Kubuntu) to manage and install more packages, and with the simple click of a button I can install whatever software I want. :)

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

Nope, did it all myself!! Even went into the terminal to sudo apt-get Wine and cabextract to get a workable version of Internet Explorer, even though it is still laggy as hell. Just read some tuts online on how to do it...it was all self-explanatory.

In FACT, I INSTALLED UBUNTU EVEN BEFORE MY FIANCEE EVEN HEARD OF IT!! It is thanks to me he is now a proud Ubuntu user!! :D I recommended the software to him when he was looking for a stable version of Linux that had VERY good support!

I tried installing Red Hat, Fedora, Mandriva, you name it, and I ALWAYS turned back to Ubuntu/Kubuntu! Now HE is hooked and won't even consider installing any other OS.

- Does it meet your needs?

Mostly!! I can chat, go online, check my e-mail, etc. (what I usually use the internet for anyway). The only problem is I cannot run Adobe Photoshop on Linux, so I am stuck with a Windows machine for that sole reason...I DID get Photoshop 7 to work on an Ubuntu machine with Wine (I don't wanna pay for Crossover or Cedega)...yet since I am upgrading to CS2, I still need my ******* machine. :mad:

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

I am not even CONSIDERING Vista. I have heard too many negative reviews on the latest ******* system. I didn't mind XP, yet I don't want to have to deal with all of the hackers, viruses, trojans, my programs crashing 50% of the time, etc....so in my opinion it is BETTER than XP or Vista. Sure, Vista is "flashy," but it is a hardware and memory hog!

Mrs Twaddle

March 4th, 2007, 11:58 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
No. But I do need to get used to the terminal window and the various commands. Only been a week so I will get there in the end.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
I like it, was a shock at first, but you soon work out where everything is. This forum is very handy too, and has been a great help.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
No way... I do all the p.c maintenance and stuff in my house. I doubt my huby could install windows let alone linux. As of yet he hasn't even attempted to use my Linux machine. Chicken.

- Does it meet your needs?
Yes, far more customisable than windows, faster and with far less unwanted stuff.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I ain't touching Vista, no way at all. And with any luck I'll get some of my kids microsoft (spit) games working with Wine, andi'll never need windows again.

viergeame

March 5th, 2007, 01:52 AM

Assuming you're a woman...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
The install was fairly easy, I made it harder on myself than it needed to be. The configuration was absolute hell because it turns out that my wireless card has almost no linux support at all.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No, there are a few things I haven't completely figured out yet, but I've only had it for less than a week.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
I did have a friend help me, but a big part of that was because it was his idea that I switch. I don't know how I would have gotten through some of the configuration without his help.

- Does it meet your needs?
Yes, right now I don't really do much other than general internet things though.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I haven't tried or even seen Vista close up, but I have always had a general dislike for Windows products. I love ubuntu because my system is a bit old and Vista would never run on it anyway.

My Linux Story (sorry it ended up being so long)

When my friend first suggested linux to me I knew absolutely nothing about it. Also, he is the only person I know that runs it, so I was a bit skeptical and nervous about the idea. Luckily for him, and me now too, his suggestion came right around the time I started having insane problems with XP. Things were crashing all the time, some things were refusing to work at all and all that other wonderful stuff I had grown so accustomed to. For a few months I kept having problems and every time I mentioned any of my problems his response would be something along the lines of "*cough* linux *cough*". I looked into it a little on my own and wasn't really sure how I felt about the idea until my friend mentioned live CDs. Finally, I decided I had heard enough, I would try the live CD just to humor him and then go on using familiar old xp. So I took my computer to his house and we got started on it. The live CD was too slow for my liking so I mentioned dual booting, I had done that with different versions of windows before so it wasn't really a new concept for me. I have a very tiny harddrive on this computer, only 5gb (it's a laptop that I got free from a business my cousin works for that was switching over to new ones), so I had to was going to have to get rid of some stuff to be able to make a partition. After hours of work I realised that there was no way I could make a partition large enough for dual booting, so I closed my eyes, crossed my fingers and clicked the reformat option. An hour or so later I was watching the ubuntu loading screen and praying I had made a good decision. First on the list of things to get working was my wireless card, which ended up having almost no linux support and very little information about how to make it work. Even my friend who had been using linux for 7 years was baffled. It ended up taking 3 days of trying to get it working. Now that it is all working though I have been spending hours every day browsing forums and messing with the command line for fun. My goal is to see how quickly I can be on even ground with my friend, I'm 7 years behind but I'm a fast learner.

war59312

March 5th, 2007, 07:43 AM

Hi,

I'm not a women, but hey I'm not the only guy either...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

In general, no!

Though I do find it a bit of a hassle some times when trying to triple boot or worse. he-he Not having your hardware supported out of the box also sucks! Update: Ubuntu 8.04 supports all my hardware now. :D

But at least it's pretty easy to find the correct drivers, generally. Not so easy keeping up to date with Nvidia and kernels for example... Installing applications, having to build from source, can be a nightmare as well.

Now it might not be "hard" but Windows is still "easier" in my point of view! I'm not going to get into why. I'm not that interested and don't have the time to explain... Sorry!

Just know I'll never be recommending it to grandma anytime soon!! Update: That is starting to change, perhaps by version 10.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

No, but then again I'm an expert! :) That is, I'm a developer and networking guru!

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

Of course! Everyone else who said no is a lier. You're telling me you never ever had to once visit a forum or irc for help? Never had to ask a single question. Your full of it! Just because someone did not physically install the OS for you does not mean you never got help. Stop trying to make yourself look good!!

- Does it meet your needs?

No! I'm a big time gamer and windows developer. Update: Not that into games anymore, so not that big of a deal now. But that does not mean I don't enjoy using Linux. In fact I use it more than I thought I ever would, some days more so than Windows. It's "funner" to play around with... Not really into having to learn an entire "new language".

Sadly that is exactly what Linux is to most people! If you don't know what I mean then you need to learn a bit more! Installing a Linux distro or running a Live CD does not qualify. Sorry!

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

Hell no! Vista is taler maid for customers and companies while Linux is just a toy. ;) Please don't (or do for all I care) take that the wrong way, I just feel that Linux is not even close to being a good alternative. An alternative, YES!! Not that Linux sucks, it's just to me not there yet! I for one hope it will be sooner than later. Update: I'd say 80% there now with Ubuntu 8.04.

Update: Changed my mine! Vista sucks!! So yes Linux is way better than Vista. I'd either go back to XP or switch to Linux/OS X before I go back to Vista... Update: Vista now has SP1 but it still sucks!!

And before people start flaming me, you should realize:

I don't give a damn!

I've been using "Linux" since it was only a dream by "some guy" in a newsgroup. ;)

I teach others in my community about Linux, generally students at my school via Local Community Linux User Groups.

I've donated time and $$$ countless times to various Linux groups, developers, distros, etc.; have you?

Any time I find a "bug" I report it and help get it fixed; I've been personally responsible for reporting hundreds, what about you?

So I ask you this, have you done your part?

Take Care,

Will

gldvxx

March 8th, 2007, 07:48 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
install no. setup yes and no. configure, yes... but mainly because i expected things to be more complicated than they were OR due to poor linux support of proprietary software/drivers.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
not hard to use. sometimes it is hard to get something working, but once i figure out how to configure it, i never have to worry about it again.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
just the forums.. but i usually solve my problem right after i post!

- Does it meet your needs?
ABSOLUTELY.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
you mean Tiger? (i'm a mac person) TOTALLY.

for most people that just want their computers to "work" and have the money to spend, i'd say get a mac.

the fact is most people are blissfully ignorant (ie, net neutrality). the ones i am most concerned about are the people that DESERVE ease of use and don't have the money to shell out for a fancy system that "just works". hence ubuntu. i don't think it's there YET but it's close.. it's closer than mandrake was that's for sure.

as for me, i'm a DBA and i am switching over from os x to ubuntu. if you need to stay current with regards to performance, macs require whole systems replacement at least once a year. with PCs running ubuntu i have more choices for components, components are generally cheaper, and i can upgrade my system piecemeal. even when i get a new motherboard/cpu i can still use old components. i started to cieling with mac os x when i realized i couldn't afford the hardware i was going to need in order to do the things i want to do (gaming and 3d graphix). as a DBA i needed more control over my system (ie command line and direct access to conf files).

the paradigm of unix based systems is you have a lot of individual programs that do one thing REALLY well. learning these programs takes time but once you get past that, you have so much more control over your system that it's worth it.

and there are people for whom it is NOT worth it, and like i said, for them i would recommend macs... or a preinstalled/configured ubuntu system! :D

happy-and-lost

March 8th, 2007, 10:00 PM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Nope. Ubuntu/Mepis gave me a good foundation of knowledge onto which I've been able to build up and up. I'm now entirely comfortable text installing, and find Debian netinstalls/Arch (Pacman looks like it'll someday be better than apt with a little work) easy to configure for comfortable use and functionality similar/identical to Ubuntu from scratch.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Bash is easier than any other CLI I've used (I've been using DOS since I was 7, and in only 7 months I can do 1000x more in bash than I ever could in DOS). Gnome gives me a great desktop experience, Xfce is comfortable to use (Flux still holds appeal, even though I've now got a powerful box). Everything is simpler than Windows in every way once you get to grips with the basic fundamental differences.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Nope. I've taught myself (with huge help from Google and UF ;)). I'm the only Linux user I know *sigh*

- Does it meet your needs?
Yes. In every way. Except for my mp3 player, but that's Sony's fault.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Yes, would Vista run on the 1Ghz Duron with 16MB shared video and 360MB RAM machine I'm posting on, and boot in under a minute? ;)

Sadly, all my female peers I've suggested Linux to are sucked into iTunes, and will not budge, they're not technically minded enough to accept a different approach to computing, even if it superior in most ways.

HasratUSA

March 9th, 2007, 07:57 AM

beryl/xgl is my girlfriend :)

liegerm

March 10th, 2007, 12:23 PM

Sadly, all my female peers I've suggested Linux to are sucked into iTunes, and will not budge, they're not technically minded enough to accept a different approach to computing, even if it superior in most ways.

I found that my iTunes habit was satisfied by using Amarok (on Kubuntu), or, you could try Banshee - they can both manage iPods. Also, in my opinion, Amarok is a superior music app than iTunes (I think there's even an Amarok live CD somewhere, too).

However, you probably know this anyway. I suspect the real problem is with fear of change. I've noticed that people in general tend to follow the herd, meaning that they figure if it's good for 90% of the population, then it must be good for me too.

belikralj

March 18th, 2007, 03:28 PM

Also not a woman

Kiaora

So you mentioned New Zealand broadband, I know what you mean but I first gotten Ubuntu from a friend who ordered a bunch of CD from ShipIt, tried it and have been hooked since. As for the questions, the guys/gals already answered what I think so I woun't repeat it, also I'm surprised that NZ women don't want to tryout new stuff, as far as I know they are the backbone of the rugged NZ bloke, and his enginuity. A little friendly help installing linux should get them on their way, in my experience at least :), and the rest the'll figure out on their own. The only problem is that doing some more complex instalations is not so easy for someone who doesn't care much for BASH, and that Windows just has a grater variaty of easily installable programs. And as said before it is not a women issue, cause I must say that I have more friends who are women who are more willing to use linux than my male friends.

Kakite

belikralj

March 18th, 2007, 03:53 PM

PS I found this post:

"I think the unity in this community is amazing. I've never seen a support community like this before. In my past experience with support forums it seems like no matter what you ask everyone goes out of their way to make you feel stupid, but I've had a completely opposite experience. At first I was wary of visiting these forums because I had been lead to believe that the majority of Linux users were elitists that would have no interest in helping me. I was afraid I would have to do most of my learning from random tutorials found on google that may or may not be complete and correct. Instead I found amazingly friendly and knowledgeable people that were willing to answer even my most noobish questions. This great attitude towards newcomers has kept me pushing on even through my most frustrating moments (like when I accidentally turned off my video drivers)."

At this thread: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=372830

I think it may be relavent

cao

Ambimom

March 18th, 2007, 04:05 PM

I'm a woman.

I'm insulted by this thread.

Choice of operating system has nothing to do with gender.

If you think it does, you've got problems way worse than your choice of operating system.:mad:

bravemosquito

March 30th, 2007, 11:14 AM

NO MA'AM party member :D

In my town chicks have superb intuition to break your day (or two) :mrgreen: Using two things - with heaven-bodies and hell-words "My WIndows is broken again" :twisted: Every time I told them: "Switch to Linux, switch to Linux"... but the result is not impressive - after a week they call me again. This leads me to one conclusion - I could have a better chance to beat the 90 kilos sysadmin in wrestling competition than girls listen me :lolflag:

daynah

March 30th, 2007, 05:32 PM

I'm a woman.

I'm insulted by this thread.

Choice of operating system has nothing to do with gender.

If you think it does, you've got problems way worse than your choice of operating system.:mad:

I'm sorry you're insulted by this thread. This thread, others like it, and generally this section in general, was started not because women (like me ;) ) are dumb, or need extra help, or anything like that. It was started because it's been proven time and time again in social psychology that women are doing worse in math, sciences, and technology for no physical reason. It's purely psychological. Some women, luckily, aren't affected by the usual social pressures around middle school in high school years that cause girls to literally fear being good at these subjects. For example, I was never afraid of science, my dad was a scientist, but growing up, I got that classic girl "math-phobia" because "boys are better at math." If you didn't, good for you. You're better than the VAST majority of the female population (and the male population, who is subject to the opposite effect). But we don't have problems because we've grown up, realized that there's something wrong with the world and are trying to fix it. That means there's something good about us. :) I hope, especially since you seem to be better than us who were effected by this social psychological process, you decide to help women who don't want to be stuck with an inferior OS but are frightened by an OS that they see, due to how they were raised, as "so hard, it's just for those boys."

Anyway, things like this thread are to help girls like the one Bravemosquito was talking about. Bravemosquito, if you think the girl you speaking to would be an appropriate linux candidate (for example, isn't dependent on programs that have no linux equiv. like video games) why don't you suggest she come to this thread? That's what this section is for, though it doesn't get used for that, or much of anything else that often. :( Maybe seeing that linux isn't just for geeky, white socks, smelly boys will give her to courage to try out the liveCD?

PS. Immediately after I installed Beryl I said, "This is my new boyfriend." My boyfriend was not amused. I find it funny you boys are saying a similar thing. :)

Ambimom

March 30th, 2007, 07:47 PM

My objection has nothing to do with my math ability, it has to do with the offensive tone against women. I fit your stereotype. When I was in school eons ago I was lousy in math and science both. And guess what? I use Ubuntu. I am a woman; I'm still lousy in math and science.

I thought the world had gone beyond sex-role stereotyping. I guess I'm mistaken. Too bad.

Thene

March 31st, 2007, 04:40 AM

Assuming you're a woman...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
- Does it meet your needs?
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

Funny I should stumble across this today. Last night a male friend and I were oooing an aaahing on Skype over Beryl and he had a femle friend there who said in the background. "You're both computer geeks, what's the difference?"

1. Ubuntu was easier in many respects and much faster. (Although I am running 64bit and my first foray into Dapper I did run into some problems.)
2. At first it did seem a little daunting, but once I got the hang of it, it was fine.
3. I did all of it myself. I did get some command line tips from my friend, but we discussed it in general and he was interested because I was using 64bit. (He said he was surprised I got as far as I did - not because I'm a woman but because my computer is 64bit.)
4. Almost. In a perfect world it would, but then again there'd also be many more Linux users.
5. I consider Linux a good alternative/replacement for Windows.

I started off a Mac user, completely design based from school for drawing. I used a Mac for work until I landed a job that required me to use a PC. At first I didn't like it - to me Macs were aesthetically nicer and like anything, when you use something for a long time you develop habits you find hard to break because they become second nature.
However, I persevered and have been a PC user ever since.
I am a general user, I don't have a programming or PC building background. I am hopeless with remembering technical aspects. Once I've finished using something, (Eg. I can learn it quickly when I need it - but after out of sight, out of mind.) I tend to forget. I know my way around an OS and can fix problems, but don't ask me what anything is called.

What I am armed with though, is a vicious curiousity, and a love for challenges and problem solving. That, however is not to say - that is what you need for Linux, but it has helped me.

For a long time I used Win98SE, but my love affair with Linux began when I first used a Knoppix Disc to rescue my computer that suddenly didn't detect my hard drive. Imagine my face when I backed up my files onto CD without having to install software or a driver! After that I had always wanted to switch but software held me back, then finally last year I took the plunge (especially with my annoyance at Win licensing). I couldn't get WINE to work properly so I could run Photoshop and I admit I still have a Win laptop, but thems the breaks. Besides I'm combatting it with trying to get my head around GIMP.

At the end of the day, what I find in general, (not just women) people are apprehensive and/or don't have time for change. Not everyone will openly embrace it because it goes against the grain of what they know.

I've seen a little bit of Vista and IMHO, Windows is just doing what Macs have had for a long time as far as GUI and eye candy is concerned.

Honestly though, encouragement, encouragement, encouragement! That would be my advice.

(You know sometimes I feel guilty for all the joy that Linux has brought. And to think it's free...)

slayerboy

March 31st, 2007, 05:37 AM

just sat something like "oh pff...you just find it hard because you're a woman, you're inferior"

You'll get the crap beat out of you, and she'll never talk to you again, unless she calls you to tell you that she is using Linux with Beryl running :P

AHAHAAAA! This is the funniest post I've read in a long time. It's so incredibly stupid but utter genius at the same time!

:popcorn:

But seriously....

I don't think anyone mentioned LinuxChix.org (http://linuxchix.org/) yet. That's another great place to get some help too.

Honestly, the thought of meeting a woman who knows how to use Linux and refuses to use Windows trumps anything else. That's just down right awesome, as is a woman who knows how to fix cars. I myself can't even change my own oil, but I can build a computer from ground up.

Anyways, I think the "hardness" of Linux in general is based on how "hard" you think Windows is. I have known a lot of people who couldn't install windows without my help. Now, especially in the last year or so, I think Linux is pretty much easier to install than Windows ever was. It's the whole stigma of "Windows came on my computer, that's what I'm sticking with." We need to break away from the "stock" mentality with computers. I think too many people equate computers to the same as cars. You wouldn't change your engine just for the sake of having better gas mileage in your car. Why change the OS running your computer? Most people, when a new Windows version comes out, they buy new systems. It's the people who upgrade their systems that find out about Linux and will catch on to Linux easily.

I think companies like System76 are doing a great help with this because it gets Linux to the masses. The thing we need to work on is getting systems with Linux pre-installed next to computers with Windows pre-installed so people can compare apples to apples. This, IMHO, would help to eliminate any confusion with getting the system installed and setup correctly. Especially if you use a distro like Linux Mint where everything is configured to run out of the box.

Honestly, Linux is easier to install and configure than Windows. When you think that with Windows you still need to install drivers and software to get hardware working, there aren't really any advantages with staying in Windows unless you play a lot of games. Even then, the games support is getting better in Linux. The other problem is with accounting software for businesses, but even that is getting better.

My advice would be to burn your own copies of Ubuntu and distribute them. I'm not sure how far-reaching the Ubuntu CD shipping will go, but if you really wanted to, just pay for the shipping to people who want to try it but don't want to waste time downloading. I've passed out many copies of distros to co-workers and friends and some have converted, almost all that have at least tried the live CD's.

macogw

March 31st, 2007, 06:50 AM

slayerboy, it's in my sig :)
maco @ #linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org

slayerboy

March 31st, 2007, 09:16 AM

slayerboy, it's in my sig :)
maco @ #linuxchix on irc.linuxchix.org

observant I am! :razz:

raistleen

April 4th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
I wouldn't say I find it hard. Its just somewhat else compared to Windows; if I hadn't grown up using different systems I would find it hard. Imho its just like every other thing to do. You have to try it and figure it out on your own. Doesn't matter if your male or female.

Do you find Linux hard to use?
No. As I said, figure out how it works then it does work.

Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Yes, I did. And yes, I already set it up myself. Why does it matter?

Does it meet your needs?
No. Then again, no OS does.

Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
If I ever used Vista I'd have to kill myself.

Hope I helped ye with this. I think... if people wouldn't make a problem out of women using or not using computers and/or Linux, there wouldn't be a problem.

leithanne

April 7th, 2007, 02:48 AM

I'd tell them to do it for the kids. Dust off the old 98SE, learn to use Ubuntu, teach the kids to use it, and they'll never have to tell a teacher "The virus ate my homework." Unless, of course, Mom's having so much fun with the new toy she makes the kids use the XP machine. ~G~

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
It's different, and there is a learning curve, but I'll bet folks who had never used any OS would find Linux more intuitive.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
I did a lot of reading beforehand, but Dapper installed itself. I just clicked a few times.

- Does it meet your needs?
Not yet. I'm still getting things set up, but so far, so good.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Well, it certainly beats the stuffing out of Win ME, which is about all this computer could handle if we're talking Windows.

Death_Sargent

April 9th, 2007, 05:17 PM

\\:D/ TAKE IT ALL IN STRIDE *snicker* :biggrin:

Linux is not very difficult and Ubuntu is basically as easy as WindowsXP automatic updates. wizards. one click install

:guitar:

Really the only thing one can do for women who think Linux is difficult is find a platform to show them how easy it is.

I do this via my laptop though one could suggest making a preconfigured qmenu download that has Ubuntu packed in.

Of course this would always have to come with the warning that it will preform differently when installed.

Also i believe there is now an windows installer available so installing Linux is now easier than ever.

that and the catch phrase "Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the full house"

bodhi.zazen

April 10th, 2007, 09:46 PM

I would encourage her and ask if there was anything I could do to help.

lluisanunez

April 11th, 2007, 07:39 PM

I'm a woman, a librarian working for more than 20 years in IT departments, and more than 10 teaching IT to uni students. I've always had fun learning new OSs and apps, from the old DOS 3.30 to PalmOS, so you could say I'm a nerd. In 2001 I decided to try Linux and bought a Mandriva (Mandrake) box and installed it in a second PC. That was a bit hard back then, but I remember I had great suport from the KDE women to upgrade from KDE2 to KDE3 :shock:
Then came Fedora3, 4 and 5. Between Fedora 3 and 4 I swept Windows out of my systems and since then I've been doing everything with Linux. I've always installed it by myself, but I sometimes get help from my workmates and especially from the forums. Fedora has great forums too. But last week I failed to boot from Fedora 6 install disc in my laptop, so after 3 looong downloads and failings I switched to Ubuntu, and I'm :KS very happy. Installation went perfect and Ubuntu even solved little hardware issues I'd had with previous distros.
Linux is now as easy to use and install as any other system. My daughter finds it much easier and friendlier than Windows. She tells her friends Linux is cute, quiet and safe (she was always getting nasty malware when in W).
Now I often hear people's complaints about malware and other problems with W. Usually when I tell them to switch to linux they look scared, but I think they are also scared to install W. Most of them would just use what comes with the computer, and I don't think it's different for women than men. If Dell, HP and others start offering working linux computers, these will be their clients.
I recommend them to try the live CD, then dual install linux and compare. I really think they will be safer and happier. I'm right now burning Ubuntu CDs for some friends to try.
But there are a couple of issues still in the way. One is the partitioning thing. Sometimes existing partitions don't get recognised, and more than once I have erased something I wanted, so I don't feel confident with helping others. Then there are the hardware surprises, luckily getting better.
Would I consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Yes. People will be faced with as much effort (and cost) to learn how to use Vista, so they'd rather learn Linux and be better off.

DoctorMO

April 12th, 2007, 04:05 AM

Interestingly the first problem with hardware support I'm personaly working on getting information onto the machine before install and the second problem with data; perhaps a nice friendly way to back up all existing data on a windows install and park it on a zip/cdrom/dvdrom/flash drive would be good?

olieviya

August 5th, 2007, 08:04 PM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure? No
- Do you find Linux hard to use? No
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff? No
- Does it meet your needs? Yes, except gaming and even that is good, can't complain.
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista? No comment, Vista suxx.

I'm a girl btw. :lolflag:

Sturmeh

October 8th, 2007, 05:35 AM

<LOL not a woman alert!>

Yeah, it's not so much hard, as it is "different."

It'd be just as hard for someone to start using say, Windows, or Mac, from a long time on another OS. ( Then again, once you've used linux, other OS become so limited. :\ )

aklibrarian1

October 11th, 2007, 04:13 PM

Yes, Linux is hard. In the same way that using Macintosh is hard when you are used to Windows or vice a versa. I feel that the problems I am having with Linux are the same problems I would have in setting up anything new.

I am installing a server to run a library program. It is taking me forever but this is due to me not being willing to ask for help when I need it. It also has to do with not having enough time to focus on it. There is not a lack of materials or support for Linux for anyone who wants to learn something new. It does take a little of the dread 'W' word, WORK. But no more work than anything we want to learn new.

GreyShadow

October 14th, 2007, 02:02 AM

It is "hard" to learn something new when you are the only one around interested in the subject. I don't mind learning something new if I have the time to look up information in books or on the web.(no Linux people near me).
Most people esp. the other women I know would like to learn in a group setting(work or school).
Also I work with a woman who hates anything Linux or Open Source and is acually a pain to be around as she does not want to know how the computer works she just wants it to work! And guess who fixes the Windows stuff so it does?
note: I am a female too.

slavik

October 14th, 2007, 12:04 PM

My question to the women who think Linux is "hard" ... Is it easier than being a mother?

Chances are you will get a positive answer ;)

cyberia81

October 14th, 2007, 04:32 PM

I would leave her alone. Honestly. I love Linux, but I also love working on cars with my dad. I am definitely not a traditional female. I'd rather spend my time tweaking my computer as opposed to shopping. There are people, male and female that will gravitate towards things that require thought. The rest would rather not be bothered to think about what goes on behind the scenes.

I change a lot of opinions by just quietly doing my own thing. People will approach you when they are ready. They run away when you chase after them with something they aren't prepared to handle.

morweni

October 15th, 2007, 01:24 AM

jbaerbock

October 21st, 2007, 07:01 AM

I am not a woman but my wife is (thank God lol). Anyway she has WinXP installed and will be fine with that untill her laptop or OS dies. Back in my ignorance days before I knew Linux or Ubuntu or Mint very well I had to do a re-install of XP for her because her laptop croacked on a gogle of viruses and spyware. Well if it happens again I will suggest Linux.

My wife has used my laptop on many ocassions since when we travel we just take mine along and that's it. I dual boot so I can play windows games easily but otherwise use Mint for everything under the sun. Her only complaint is that FireFox does not run activeX dependant games (MS's Zone.com) which she loves playing and earning badges. Well I have ie4linux but it is harder (not really) than her current IE in winXP so she wont switch yet. Funny thing is the reason she had so much spyware was from downloading trial games from Microsoft's Zone.com webpage lol.

In conclusion she will switch eventually because we are not rich and I do not plan to pay 2,000+ on a vista comp. I prefer to stick with 600 dollar linux laptops. So next computer for both of us will be linux. Also I mentioned to her WinXP updates and support stop as of 2008 or 2009 so she may be more willing after hackers have a field day with her comp.

Sturmeh

October 21st, 2007, 07:05 AM

Maybe you should hire some hackers to have a field day, heck they might even do it for free! xD

jbaerbock

October 21st, 2007, 07:17 AM

Lol prolly not a good idea, though I read on a post somewhere where a guy randomly installed Linux Mint on his girlfriends computer and put everything where it was in windows and his girlfriend never even noticed the difference.

elizabeth

October 23rd, 2007, 11:28 PM

Her only complaint is that FireFox does not run activeX dependant games (MS's Zone.com) which she loves playing and earning badges. Well I have ie4linux but it is harder (not really) than her current IE in winXP so she wont switch yet.

Have you looked into CrossOver Office (http://www.codeweavers.com/) to get IE w/ ActiveX in Linux? My husband needs IE to do his ActiveX based timesheets (ick!) and I need IE for the occasional web development work that my boss tosses my way. It works out very nicely - in my toolbar at the bottom of my screen I have icons for firefox, opera and ie - more than a little surreal ;)

jbaerbock

October 24th, 2007, 06:20 AM

Yeah IE4Linux is IE run in wine basicaly but automated and works nice. But still does not work as well as normal IE in windows and since she is happy why change kind of an attitude. Plus the random meltdowns I have had with Linux scare her away.

tamara_meske

November 27th, 2007, 07:01 AM

After buying a laptop with Vista installed, I became so incredibly frustrated with the OS that I nearly float-tested my laptop. I'd had an interest in Linux and asked a friend & my brother about it and they recommended Ubuntu.

Wow. Easy to install, easy to use. I still have sound issues, but this is a work machine for me. I use it for web design, word processing and basic graphic design.

Overall, my computer SMOKES it's so fast - I still boot Vista occasionally and it's like torture waiting for all the junk to load and connect to my wireless. I often will re-boot into Ubuntu, just to get out of the maddening Vista environment. I'm not too picky about a lot of things; I love orange and everything works instead of crashing like my Windows programs.

I'm still in the migration stage, but I'm almost there. I'm a little worried about finding a replacement for QuickBooks, which we use for our business and is crucial for a number of reasons (although I dislike the program itself almost as much as I dislike MS).

For every day tasks, I'm stunned at the ease of use. Everyone should switch.

For me, it's an ethical issue, too. The proprietary nature of MS and all the businesses who cater to it offends me on a basic level. There are plenty of ways to make money; hoarding knowledge should not be one of them. So even though there was a learning curve, I was happy to apply myself to Linux rather than applying the same energy to Vista, both in the long term and the short term, for a much more gratifying experience.

Be mindful of your choices, from the food you eat to your OS and you will feel more fulfilled!

Presto123

November 27th, 2007, 07:09 AM

LOL...I can understand the Vista issue. My laptop has it and I cannot stand it...I wish I had just gone with a XP system at least, but it was cheap. Dual-core Intel w/ Vista for $500? I jumped at that. Pshh...if I only knew then.

soleille

January 22nd, 2008, 04:19 PM

How about someone who has not yet made the switch but is planning to?

I'm a woman, and a literature student at that, so I guess I'm the sort of person you mean :O)

That said, I use my computer a lot, it's the next important thing after my coffe machine! By the standard of most of my fellow students and users in the internet cafe I work at, I know a lot about computers LOL - the thing is, I know how to use them (after I got used to them- I remember that when in 2000 I had my first computer, I had to ask my roomie even to install ICQ hehe- but I adapted FAST) - but I wouldn't dream of opening it to put in new hardware etc.- there's always someone who'll do that for me.
I can get and use all programs I need, the internet, install add-ons etc, change settings, drivers etc., reinstall the OS and write HTML, - for enough people around me, that already makes me a geek :oP, but I definitely would not call myself "computer savvy"

I've been using open source software for years whenever available - the concept just seemed more ethical- the money MS charges for their office suite, for example, is outrageous... that's what got me started.
I love how customisable it is- while I won't dream of learning to program myself, again, there are often people around who will pogram just what I need with some input- then I report the bugs and they can fix them :o)

I've been fascinated by Linux even when it seemed to me like serious hacking :o) In the past 2 years or so I've become interested in trying it myself, but frankly, didn't know if I could do it- still have the notion that the command line is more important than I'm comfortable with- but I'll see that

-Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
I don't know yet, but I do shy away from trying it on my own.
Just like the first few times I needed someone to install Windows and watch, I'll just see how it goes and then decide whether I can do it. (esp. as I want win an ubunto for a while and have never used partitions before)

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
I think my biggest issue (apart from being unfamiliar, I got over that with each new version of XP and with Mac OS basic use pretty fast) is the command line- I'm a point, click, drag, drop kind of girl.
I hated DOS at school, never used the command prompt in windows for anything but pings- my command wizardry stops at html and irc commands :O)

Also, while I am already using alternatives to MS for my most frequent programs (like many win users, firefox, thunderbird and open office should be familiar already- well, ok, not if i look at some fellow students...), there is just NOT everything for Linux.
I know I will miss Microsoft Reader (will have to use wine, I guess), and even unimportant stuff like uno, scrabble, minesweeper- if I can't get them all, I'll miss them

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Install definitely someone, and I guess a lot of internet and person asking while I'm figuring out how to use it and how to replace some applications

- Does it meet your needs?
I'll see about that- but so far, it looks as if it will....I googled a lot to see if all my applications will work/can be replaced, otherwise I wouldn't even consider making the switch!

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
If I didn't think it was a good alternative to windows, why try it?
I was most ok with Win 98, hated that my laptop came with XP already- but Vista is an abomination! Even my very savvy friend with pretty new hardware got loony trying to get it to run smoothly- I feel that with every new version of windows, users are more and more taken for fools- another reason why I want to go Ubuntu if it is doable for me.

One thing in convincing people to try alternatives (I've converted quite a few people to Mozilla software and Open Office)- don't come across as a zealot or too technical- instead of sayieng "it's open source", say "it's free" ... most people will never care about your passion for Ubuntu, and that's ok, they might still use it because it's practical.

And one thing that got at least this woman- stress the cuteness- lovely penguin icon for Linux and names like "Feisty Dawn" really did it for me- much more appealing than geek speek :o)

juliachancey

February 1st, 2008, 05:09 AM

I am fairly new to using Linux, I have only had it on my computer since...September or so. So far I love it, I use it more often at work than the Windows computer they provide us. So, here are my answers.

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Ubuntu was incredibly easy to set up and configure, Gentoo on the other hand I never did get completely installed. Thats mainly because my attention span is too short for a long install.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Linux is pretty easy to use, some of the tougher situations i have tried to figure out benefit greatly from the forums and google.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
I mainly do everything myself, but on occasions I get lazy and have a friend help me out.

- Does it meet your needs?
It meets every need so far except for gaming. Guess I will just get a Windows computer for that

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
From what I have seen...yes. I played around with my parent's new laptop and absolutly hated Vista.

Hopes this helps...
Julia

jrusso2

February 1st, 2008, 05:29 AM

I am a woman and have been using Linux for 12 years. That being said I was an advanced user as my job is Network Administration. I have been using PC's since they came out in 83 so I don't qualify as an average user.

I can see why it would be difficult for a lot of non technical women to install and configure Linux. But its not any harder then for a non technical male.

This is why I continue to crusade for Linux that is easier to use and configure for non technical people.

Irihapeti

February 4th, 2008, 07:19 AM

I'm a woman with grown-up sons. I've been using Ubuntu for six months now, which I suppose makes me a newbie with some of the polish worn off. Here are my answers.

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Mostly, no. I was lucky perhaps that I had only one tricky piece of hardware, a winmodem. But once I found where to get the driver for it, I was away. There are also some tricky things to set up in Windows as well.

I've also got Puppy 2.17 on another partition. My Ubuntu experience has made configuring that a lot easier.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No. I would say that once it's configured for a user's needs, it should be no more difficult than any other OS.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
No, unless you count help gained here on the forums!

- Does it meet your needs?
Yes, it does, otherwise I would not have uninstalled Vista.:)

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I think that depends very much on what one is going to do. I haven't yet found anything I can't do on Linux, but then, I'm not into gaming, high-end multimedia and all that sort of thing. Nor do I have iTunes, wireless and a few other things that people seem to have trouble with.

I'm a compulsive fiddler and I've had a certain amount of time on my hands. But not everyone else has. Here's a case in point.

About 10 days ago, one of my brothers came to visit me. He is very interested in the concept of Linux, but he has two main problems. One is that he needs Photoshop and Autocad (he designs furniture). The other, and perhaps more crucial, is that as a small business owner, he can't take time off to tweak a new operating system.

At least with Windows, it comes preinstalled, and there are plenty of techs out there who will set things up for you. With Linux, often you are on your own. I wonder if there was more support, as in people to come and help out, it would mean more people would take up Linux.

Eagle70ss

February 14th, 2008, 09:34 PM

Wow!! I had to laugh my tail off when I read this linux love fest...

1. It's easier to install than Windows??
HA!! With my unattended XP I pop the CD in, pick the partition and walk off, everything installs itself...Ubuntu is much more complicated and it's claimed by most linux nuts to be the easiest to use..In fact I could never even get it installed...I picked my partition(not my XP of course) and it always said "No root drive present go back to partition manager" or some other error...How is this easier??..Much less from what I'm hearing half your devices don't work after install..With XP all is pre-configured(drivers, Service Packs, the whole nine) with unattended CD and all is well..Even install partition letter can also be automated if you desire...It's takes less than 20 minutes with my dual core.

However I would not recommend VISTA to anyone at this point.

I've also tried many LiveCD's and most of them locked up with a few minutes and I had to boot back into Windows..

Virtually any mainstream game can't be played on Linux..And has VERY limited multimedia capability..

Basically, linux puede chupar mis danglers..
Gracias, tenga un buen dia.

bethnesbitt

February 16th, 2008, 01:16 AM

I am a woman, and I love linux, exspecially ubuntu. If you are using a computer and you enjoy it, you don't have a hard time buying $80 windows programs and learning it if you need to or want to bad enough.

robertc1985

February 16th, 2008, 07:46 AM

i don't think that gender has anything to do with it, i've used windows my entire life, and i'm trying to learn linux, i hear it's great for a lot of things! but when i boot into it, like i have on my playstation 3 i become almost instantly clueless! in fact i've been playing around with linux for a little over 8 months now and have made very little progress outside surfing the internet, emailing and using my Yahoo! IM. obviously i'm a man, but i don't feel like that makes any difference, women are just as smart if not smarter then men, especially myself

uh, sorry for being so long winded

Arwen

February 16th, 2008, 12:19 PM

Irihapeti

February 17th, 2008, 02:15 AM

I figure that women are sometimes more crafty than men because we frequently don't have the option of sheer physical strength! Then we need to figure out a clever way of getting something done.

Well, there is another option, which is to play helpless, but I'm not into that.

Eagle70ss

February 22nd, 2008, 05:04 AM

Linux isn't hard,it's just different.As far as I'm concerned,it's like the difference between the two cars my family owns:
the old one,bought in 1991,mechanical wheel,weird pedals,no AC
the new one,bought in 2004,luxurious comparing to the old one,nice driving feeling in everything,ABS,etc
Both of them do the job for me:go to work and back home.One could expect the new one is the one I prefer but no.
I prefer my oldie because it's a bit smaller(more easy to find a place to park),I have one less thing to worry about cause if I scratch it,I just don't care(it's already scratched everywhere:-P) and believe me it has a better view than the new (big fat overequiped)car.
In a similar way,I prefer linux:maybe a bit difficult for a newbie in the beginning but when I got used to it,it offered me a variety of applications and it's much faster than heavy XP.
And I never thought that gender could be a disadvantage.IMHO it can be more easy for women as they are sometimes more crafty than men ;-) Womens' disadvantage is their thinking they won't be able to install and run linux,so they give up before even starting.

I have to say I love the car comparisons, but I have say that you can get a car with all the bells and whistles and still keep the car small and nimble. Much is the same with XP...You can get nlite and slim down XP as much as you would like and customize it to your liking...And I would put my lite XP up against any linux installation.

Linux is like buying a car where nothing works right off the lot. And you need a Mechanical Engineering degree to operate the car..:)
And Since I'm a college student, I can get a XP copy for virtually nothing through MS agreement.

soleille

March 11th, 2008, 06:05 PM

Okay, now back with experience :o)

And another comment on the men vs. women issue: Women are of course not somehow brain deficient in the computing department, but (very generalized, but as a rule it fits) less interested in computers for the computer's sake, a a status symbol etc- same with cars, really - it just needs to work *for us* and having to put time etc. into being able to use it is offputting - women tend to be more usage oriented.
What a computers does tends to interest us only when it's broken- and we're used to and not ashamed of just asking someone who knows better, so we don't *have to * know our way around anything but *usage*

Also, most don't want to be seen as geeks while for guys that in itself often is a status symbol - look around at any university teaching computer science and see how the man-women ratio is, same goes for the offline "Linux user groups" - but really, they *are* a weird concept- even if I love a certain OS, or brand of toilet paper, or socks, *I* wouldn't dream of creating and attending a "user group" for that!

Generalizing I would say women are less computer minded than men, and young people tend to be more interested, but I *know* the rule doesn't always hold true - working in an internet café, I see incredibly savvy 70 year old women right next to - and that gave me quite a shock, that with computer studies at school etc this is still possible- young males in their teens or 20s who need help with *every little thing* while *relying* on the internet for communication and flirting over messengers and social networking sites.

Okay, back to the actual answers:

-Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
I don't know yet, but I do shy away from trying it on my own.
Just like the first few times I needed someone to install Windows and watch, I'll just see how it goes and then decide whether I can do it. (esp. as I want win an ubunto for a while and have never used partitions before)

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
I think my biggest issue (apart from being unfamiliar, I got over that with each new version of XP and with Mac OS basic use pretty fast) is the command line- I'm a point, click, drag, drop kind of girl.
I hated DOS at school, never used the command prompt in windows for anything but pings- my command wizardry stops at html and irc commands :O)

Also, while I am already using alternatives to MS for my most frequent programs (like many win users, firefox, thunderbird and open office should be familiar already- well, ok, not if i look at some fellow students...), there is just NOT everything for Linux.
I know I will miss Microsoft Reader (will have to use wine, I guess), and even unimportant stuff like uno, scrabble, minesweeper- if I can't get them all, I'll miss them

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Install was done, but everything else I needed I could figure out either myself or with friendly Aunt Google or this forum - and it was much easier than when I used to run into windows problems - don't need to post Hijack this logs all the time haha

- Does it meet your needs?
Totally and completely, I don't need to fall back on Windows except for weird stuff like using my Philips GoGear mp3 player - but that is more designers only catering to windows problem, not a Ubuntu problem.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Windows?
Yes, a superior one even.
I can do everything I used to on Win, and I feel it's more user friendly- most software I need is already included, no hunting around the net, virus scanning etc. for every little thing you want to add.
Also, the look and feel *without customisation* feels much nicer and more efficient- I had to do a lot of windows tweaking and installing extra software just to have everything as accessible as it already is out of the box now - the accessories-places-system thing, for example, is WAY better - but will still be "hard" for some as Windows, while doing it way worse and confusingly even, is what they are used to - but hey, so I was, and when I'm on windows, I miss it.

I think that is the main problem - as long as universities, cybercafes, businesses etc use windows, if you want Linux, you *have* to learn everything twice - the point of which many people will not see.

MONODA

March 11th, 2008, 06:24 PM

1. It's easier to install than Windows??
HA!! With my unattended XP I pop the CD in, pick the partition and walk off, everything installs itself...Ubuntu is much more complicated and it's claimed by most linux nuts to be the easiest to use..In fact I could never even get it installed...I picked my partition(not my XP of course) and it always said "No root drive present go back to partition manager" or some other error...How is this easier??..Much less from what I'm hearing half your devices don't work after install..With XP all is pre-configured(drivers, Service Packs, the whole nine) with unattended CD and all is well..Even install partition letter can also be automated if you desire...It's takes less than 20 minutes with my dual core.
uhhh have you tried to select automated install? Have you tried installing XP on a specific partition and not the entire disk?

samt 100

March 31st, 2008, 04:22 PM

Been using linux for 8 months. I am female, well over 25 and love ubuntu to bits. I rave about it to everyone and bore them to death. My 19 year old daughter hopes that it will be better that vista, which she thinks is slow. I bought a good book by Keir Thomas. It guided me though just about everything. I installed 6.10 then upgraded to 7.04. I have encountered the odd problem, like networking with my windows xp computer, one way traffic so far. It seems easier to use than xp , eg it was much quicker to install the printer, more like common sense, and I love not worrying about viruses. Reading the forums is fun and wastes lots of time. I don't do any gaming. Once xp crashes I shall just load up ubuntu and forget the existence of microsoft.

Eagle70ss

April 4th, 2008, 04:57 AM

uhhh have you tried to select automated install? Have you tried installing XP on a specific partition and not the entire disk?

OH yeah it's a piece of cake...I've got three partitions and I could easily install XP on any one of them...It just pops right up...just select which partition to install on and all is good...Or you can even automate it when you make your unattended CD.

zetetic

April 4th, 2008, 05:00 AM

This would be my advice:

aptitude install brains

Are you talking about blond girls?

lol

Meskarune

April 19th, 2008, 06:51 PM

Assuming you're a woman...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
- Does it meet your needs?
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

"Hard" is pretty relative. My aunt uses windows XP. She cannot install programs herself, she doesn't know how the file system works (she doesn't even browse through it and instead uses 3rd party software like for example picasa for photos) She cannot even set up her own e-mail address. If she has the choice between using a pre-configured windows computer, and installing ubuntu...she's going to just stay with windows. If someone installed ubuntu and configured it for her, she would probably have no problem using it.

So ANY system install and configuration would be hard for a computer novice. And pretty easy for someone relatively familiar to computers. Noobs don't like new and unfamiliar things becasue essentially it is "harder" than old familiar ones.

I personally have no problems working with any computer system. But the majority of people (not just women) aren't like that. Microsoft knows this, and they have used that fact to gain their huge market share. Windows does a ton of hand-holding.

Women are also discouraged from doing things on their own with their systems (and in many other aspects of their lives, but thats a totally different ballfield). They get told things like "Don't mess with that! You'll mess everything up! Just have me fix it" This happens in the workplace by tech support and it happens at home by brothers/husbands/fathers and unlike men who might want to do it anyway to prove they can, women will just follow the advise not to touch things. Women are also a lot less competitive than men, they won't see installing a new system as a challege or learning experiance, mearly as an inconvienance.

Do you find Linux hard to use?

Once its all set up, its very easy for anyone to use.

Does it meet your needs?

Yes, or I wouldn't be using it. :) Make sure to point out all the programs available. Things like recipe database programs, photo organizers, calanders that synch with webcalanders, e-mail clients...and all of them free to use with life time upgrades and free online support.

Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

If Ubuntu is the same as Vista...why switch? If you want something like Vista, use Vista. You need to press that Ubuntu is better than Vista- less buggy, more secure, more customizable, all free programs which are easier to install than windows programs are, Ubuntu runs faste, uses less hard drive space, etc, etc. Tell people that Ubuntu is a million times better than Vista! Plus, free upgrades for life!

The easiest way to get non-believers to switch is to let them try linux out, and to have someone else install and configure the system for them.You also need to stress how much more cost effective linux is, how much more secure it is and how it is way more stable than windows. Most people could care less about the distro war and will use whatever OS that is available with good features.

Gripp

April 20th, 2008, 06:53 AM

i think there are going to be a majority of people, male or female, who will simply never give linux a second thought. likely the same people who still use AOL and Norton AV... :p

really though, i can think of plenty of people who wouldn't even know how to go into their bios to set the comp to boot from CD to check out the live CD
i would guess a majority of my co-workers actually...

linux is great, but only if you're comfortable with computers at a level at least beyond day to day uses. lets face it, while winblowz may BSOD a LOT and welcome every sort of virus and attack elsewise, at least it generally still boots up and is usable at a basic level. whereas, often with linux lock-ups lead to the complete inability to even start the computer... meaning the need for a liveCD adn the smarts/patience to trouble shoot and work with a command line.

no. i would say, if they aren't interested then dont bother trying to sell them on it. aside from a basic video of compiz on youtube or something to show them what linux is and what it is capable of, if they are intimidated by the thought linux wont be useful for them.

Stefanie

April 23rd, 2008, 04:34 PM

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
if you want to dual-boot (with XP or vista already installed), installation can be hard. partitioning can be difficult and a bit scary because you don't want to risk erasing your HDD. in my case, the ubuntu installer didn't give the option "resize existing partition" at first. after like 6 hours i figured out that i needed to run chkdsk on windows before starting the live cd. when the dual-boot was finally working, the GRUB bootloader failed and I couldn't startup my pc anymore. it took some time (and panic) before i could fix the problem.
of course, these problems are not related to ubuntu itself but to the presence of a windows OS. still it is, i think, the major reason why loads of windows users don't dare to switch.

the configuration of ubuntu itself took a while. my printer and my scanner didn't work, i couldn't play mp3 or wma files, i needed checkgmail, texlive with extra packages, kile, kpdf, jabref, compiz-fusion with rotating desktop cube, ... If you are a newbie you have to surf for hours before you can fix or install all this.

Do you find Linux hard to use?
the graphic interface is pretty intuitive and not hard at all. the command line is very useful but there is a learning curve.

Who did the installation?
I did, using only google.com

Does it meet your needs?

yep. the only thing i really miss is calendar synchronization with my mobile phone. after several hours SynCE and Opensync still don't work.
another problem is software - i have some electronic dictionaries and games that do not run under ubuntu.

Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

for me, it is. but i don't think most other people i know would give it a try.

Chii

April 25th, 2008, 06:52 AM

Assuming you're a woman...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

Depends on the version... when I was installing 7.04 I had to spend a week or two trying to make all the bits work, but the persistence paid off and I'd used it problem free for the rest of the time. With 8.04 I can honestly say that it was the least painful install of any other installs I'd ever had to do (AND it installed at least 3x faster than Vista ever could). Configuration wasn't all that hard... just go enable what I wanted, have it downloaded from the repositories and viola. For the other stuff I wanted, I just searched the repositories for or did an apt-get install (what it was I wanted here) :)

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Not really hard perse, but a different experience from Windows definitely.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
I installed it on my own.

- Does it meet your needs?
It does for the most part... but sadly there are some games it will not play so I use keep Vista on another partition of my laptop for that.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Indeed I would... especially with 8.04 and Kubuntu which has the widgets, the "smooth" look and the functionality.

The only place it really can't compete as well is in the area of gaming... but anyone who uses linux knows that I would guess :s (Which is the only reason I still have Vista still on here tbh xD)

What really brought me to Linux though was the fact that it had a different more "soft" feel to it. I do not know whether this feeling came from the fact that it is so customizable in terms of appearance, or that it comes in so many different flavors. Or maybe just because you can adjust it's functioning in so many different ways. Either way all of this lead to a more personal experience which jumped out at me.

Well sorry if this does not make much sense... I'm writing this rather late at night and I'm somewhat tired. I'll most likely get back tomorrow and edit this so that you can understand what Im saying :)

Hmmm noticed the main question ;) As for giving advice to women who think linux is hard. Well if you are considering using it and are scared by the idea that it is "hard". Just realize that it is as about as difficult as it would be for someone who would be learning to use Microsoft Windows, or OSX for the first time if they'd never used it. It would be different, and probably awkward for a while (it was for me at least) but after a while doing different stuff becomes second nature and it really starts to shine at this point.

kreamibhutt

May 11th, 2008, 06:41 AM

Hmm linux isn't hard, and why should ones genitals derive upon what people think?

Almost all of this point falls into

"How good is the product?"

"How good are the learning and support materials?"

"What are your priorites?" " and

"How hard are you prepared to work at achieving the desired results?"

I found Ubuntu and linux in general to be very frustrating and the support material was really scattered, badly written and the software was anything from crap to less than ideally configured.

While I do lack the skills and the time to do all the programming, I can put forward my ideas to make the programs and tutorials better.

So I have and I did, and now Ubuntu, is basically almost on par with windows.

I say this for two reasons.

It's a better product. And the step between expecting to not think at all and having to LEARN by doing, is getting easier...

The learn by doing really needs much more improvement and - we need to take the approach of synchronising the ease of use - it doesn't mean to erase the things like the command line, but to provide DETAILED and coherent steps from the start of a process to the ende of it.

Learn by doing and getting it done - NOT headaches from abstraction, **** poor directions and LOTS of time wasting.

I use the computer to get MORE done in more time, not to sit there for days trying to figure stuff out and the only material is written by well meaning clots across 37 forums and 77 websites, who write directions from A to Z, but they leave out B - Y.

I mean granted that after 20 years of using windows, I still basically hate it, but this is what seperates Ubuntu Linux from the EASE of implementation and uptake.

CLEAR, LOGICAL, STEP by STEP, DIRECTIONS.... on how to do EVERYTHING, ALL on ones machine.

It doesn't have to meet the needs of lazy and stupid people who wouldn't know a petrol cap from a radiator cap (ummm what's a radiator cap) - but it does have to meet the needs of responsible people, who want and need to get outstanding results, through the efficient use of their time and resources.

I can't afford to spend 6 days ******* around in code and trying to get stuff to work...

I don't want to do any more of it either. I am really busy. I have alot on my plate and I refuse to buy or use junk.

I really like this product, it's really becoming excellent and easier to use.

Everything is improving.

There is still more work that needs to be done in the help sections tho.

And Microsoft - my latest fights with that companies products....

MS Fister - a resource hungry electricity guzzling pig... I am surprised that on my OLD laptop, with hardly anything in it... 500 me of ram etc.. that I had 30 web pages open 3 documents, one video, my emailer and a networking transfer running, all at the same time, and my OLD laptop was running most excellently.

Under XP it was spinning the guts out of it's hard drive, even running one or two documents...

It was like, sitting there and watching someone redline my car, in the parking lot... just enormous amounts of hard work destroying my system.. hour, after hour, after hour, day in day out....

I really felt very frustrated and helpless.

Now with Ubuntu Linux, it's doing enormous amounts of stuff, and the hard drive is just humming along nicely.....

I am now confident enough to set up my other system to repair the corrupted dual boot from a faulty power supply, and to not get rid of Windows XP, but to side line it from my mainstream operations almost completely.

Microsoft Fister - I have neither the time nor inclination to put up with the typical MS commercial product, that is so buggy, and so resource hungry and uses so much electricity to just run and do nothing....

I have expereinced this commercial product, that all the customers have to put up with all the bugs, and do years of unpaid for beta testing and frustration.. and the loss of work.. I did it with 95, 98, Millenium, and XP - which is still ****** when it comes to file management and a few other things...

And MS Fister is another typical Microsoft case in point.

I am pretty much a want to get things done, and not a stuff around, getting it done person.

So I am never going to "upgrade?" or switch up to the latest "dirty conjob" and corporate monopilisation of Microsoft (e.g. Fister and Orifice 2007)....

And I am going totally Open Source.

I like it.

So I am VERY grateful to all the people who have worked so hard to help people like me, by making an excellent product like Ubuntu and Open Office (.org).

filligree

May 12th, 2008, 08:59 PM

OK, as a woman and a bit of a noob, this is my take on it.

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Nope. Easier than Windows, mainly because everything's accessible - my only Linux experience is Ubuntu, where programs are in the repositories and so there's no hunting around for a version that works, just go to the list, find what you want, voila!

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
Erm, you click on the pretty pictures, right? So it's much like Windows then. Only it doesn't crash when you ask it to do something, and it's free. And for some reason it's aesthetically better - thelines are cleaner, plus it's easier to see what you're doing. Whatever I tried with Windows, it never looked so welcoming.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Erm, me, plus the ubuntu website documentation and this forum, plus a little Googling.

- Does it meet your needs?
Yes, continually. There's only one program I can't run, and that because it was provided by my uni and they chose not to provide the Linux version (it doesn't run in WINE either). I can try out software and get rid of it if it doesn't do what I want, and there's usually an easy way of fixing things that go wrong using the terminal. Being as most of what I do is surf the net and send emails, I think Ubuntu's got it covered.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Yes. In fact, if all you really use it for is browsing the net, checking emails and the occasional bit of DTP or letter writing, it's easier than Vista. There's less hoops to jump through, and it's not going to contract a virus and wipe itself out.

To be honest, I am a bit of a geek, so linux had that edge of geekiness which I liked, so I guess I'm not much help on that front. My Mum, boyfriend and housemate have all used it since I installed it on my computer, and none have had the tiniest complaint, and they all use XP the rest of the time.

I think if I hadn't been able to download the live CD, I would have been much more reticent, but being able to run the live CD, and then, once I'd decided to install, to be able to have both operating systems running just in case has meant that I had no qualms about playing about, installing and uninstalling, trying stuff in terminal (nothing major yet, but I'm working on it).

Does that help any?

spectrevk

May 13th, 2008, 09:57 PM

I'm currently talking to various people online about Linux, there appears to be a reasonable amount of women who are 25+ who use the internet in their day-to-day life... I have to say, 100% of them think that computing in general is "hard" and think Linux is even worse. They all seem to have the same opinions: computing is hard, linux sounds weird and confusing, they don't want to try installing Linux and they have never even seen Linux.

If they knew me in real life, they would have no problem letting me install Linux on an old computer as a demonstration, however like I said I'm talking online - none of them live anywhere near me so I can't show them what Linux is like and they won't try it out themselves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming you're a woman...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
- Does it meet your needs?
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

Also, don't just answer the questions, what I'm looking for is an overview of what you think about Linux. How much *** does it kick? Is it really that "nerdy" and "hard" as people claim it is? Would you recommend it to other women as a good alternative to Vista? ... just write about your experience and how you found it compared to Windows - you could also write a direct message as I might send this thread to other people. You don't have to answer my questions, those are really just for suggestions.

- Thanks for your support! :D

The attitude you're describing is common among most non "geeky" people. Even among younger people, computers are, generally speaking, tools. Like a toaster. I use my toaster in the morning, and as long as it makes bread crispy, that's all I want. If you told me that I could reach into the toaster, fiddle with some stuff, maybe install a new, different, free alternative heating coil, I'd just back away slowly and enjoy my toast.

Linux *is* hard. At its core it's still a command line interface, which most people haven't seen in over 10 years. The move towards GUI interfaces in Linux, shielding the user from ever seeing the command line isn't going to completely destroy this attitude; the command line is still there, it's still the best way to do some things, and even within the GUI, there's enough that can go wrong in Linux to scare away someone who is an avid computer user, but not technically inclined.

I went through a couple of weeks worth of searching forums, trying stuff, and bugging my Linux-savvy friends for help when I tried out Ubuntu 7.10 on my laptop. And even now, I still have problems: less battery time than I had under XP, jaggy edges in video when I full-screen a file, and some rather abysmal performance streaming video files off of a data CD/DVD. Me, I like the benefits I'm getting, and I enjoy learning and finding out how to get what I want out of linux. But is it reasonable to expect anyone, male or female, who just wants to hang out on Youtube or continue writing their great American novel to put up with this? It's a big step.

My advice is to just be patient. Also, come up with a list of *good* reasons to switch. What are the real, practical benefits of using linux over windows? I'm not talking about security or how great it is as a development platform, but stuff that the average user likes.

darth_indy

May 14th, 2008, 03:21 AM

I can answer these questions from three POVs - I am a woman, and a nerd, and love Linux. My mom is not a nerd (more like the where's-the-any-key person), and loves Linux. My aunt is not a nerd, and hates Linux. So I will answer each question thrice. 1=Me, 2=Mom, 3=Aunt

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

1 - I have only installed Ubuntu, Windows XP, and Windows 2000, so for comparison to other distros of Linux, my knowledge is limited. But I found Ubuntu extremely easy to install, and compared to searching for all the drivers, programs, and updates in XP, it was child's play. Perhaps I was just lucky, but everything "just works."

2 - (to me) "You want to install Linux? What's that? OK, I guess."

3 - (to me) "But... I won't have IE, or Roboform, or Outlook, or Photoshop, or Dreamweaver..." (even after I show her the alternatives (Firefox, Sxcipper [sp?], Thunderbird) and Wine on my computer - where I run Photoshop, MS Office, and Dreamweaver) then... "Fine. I'll try it [in Wubi]. But don't mess up my Windows." (I installed it for her)

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

1 - Nope. Only when I mess with something I shouldn't, and break it. But at least I can fix it and not do a full reinstall as I would with Windows.

2 - I had at least five questions a day from my mom with Windows. Now that I've installed Ubuntu for her, I've had NO problems. Far easier.

3 - My aunt suffers from the "It's not Windows!" syndrome. She thinks it's pretty, but she won't try the FOSS alternatives to her programs.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

1 - With the exception of the forums, I was on my own. The forums were tremendously helpful to a noob like me, and now I return the favor whenever possible. I got on my feet really quickly. I always installed it myself.

2 - I installed it and helped her set it up. Few questions, as I had already introduced her to Firefox, and I showed her where OpenOffice was, and explained that it was Word. That's all she needs anyways :)

3 - I installed it, set it up, and am tech support, though she rarely uses it.

- Does it meet your needs?

1 - Hell yes. Moreso than Windows. Only thing I missed was Dreamweaver and Photoshop, but Wine now works with both, so I'm good.

2 - Again, hell yes and just on a vanilla install. She does eBay, Yahoo email, and types letters to print. No problems.

3 - It would meet her needs, if she'd let it. But as of right now, no. Not Ubuntu's fault, however.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

I now consider Vista an alternative to Ubuntu, not the other way around. Far better than Vista. I've only had limited experience with it, but my boyfriend has had to troubleshoot it for friends, and comes back with horror stories. I won't list the other two opinions, because I'm sure you can guess them already :)

Also, don't just answer the questions, what I'm looking for is an overview of what you think about Linux. How much *** does it kick? Is it really that "nerdy" and "hard" as people claim it is? Would you recommend it to other women as a good alternative to Vista?

Overall, I think it kicks major a**. The best part about it is it's dead simple, enough so for my mom, but also as nerdy and hard as I want it to be. Completely customizable, but only if I want to do so. I definitely would - and do recommend it to women AND men. And some of each have taken me up on it, most have loved it. There is also a personal, greedy reason for doing so; it's easier to fix when it's broken. Most of my family/friends live far away. If I don't know the answer, I can google it or search these forums, and tell them in easy terms how to fix it. I could have them search, true, but I can compress it into language they understand, or just say "Don't ask why, just go to applications > accessories > terminal and copy/paste 'sudo blah blah --blah /blah'" If they want to know how or why, I explain, otherwise it's simple. Much better than "OK, go to example.com/downloaddriver/obscuredriver.exe. Download it. Wait. OK, click on it. No, double click. OK, click next. No, next, not back. Now click agree. NOT back! Now OK. Now reboot. Did that fix it? OK, let's try something else."

Yes, this may sound like an anti-Windows rant. And it probably is. I know Windows works for some people, and good luck to them. But I find Linux far easier, and better over all.

psychokittiez

November 14th, 2008, 04:40 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
No, at least not for me. It would depend on the distribution, though. *buntu is relatively easy to install/configure compared to something else like, say, Slackware.
- Do you find Linux hard to use?
No, but I've always been more on the "geeky" side of things. I find it much easier to keep a Linux box secure than a Windows box. :) It was a bit harder for me to do things when I first began using it. That, however, should be a given, as any newly acquired skill is going to be relatively difficult at first.
- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
I have always installed everything myself. I have never asked anyone personally for help, but I have consulted the wonderful tool called the internet from time to time.
- Does it meet your needs?
Hun, I can make it fit my needs if I want to.
- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
Ubuntu (and its varieties) can be a great alternative to any operating system. It is not excruciatingly difficult to install or use, and is great for the beginner looking to get their first taste of Linux, or the advanced user looking for a stable Debian-based OS (ALL HAIL THE POWER OF APT.)

I would tell anyone just to try it out. I would give them a few tips and tricks and teach them how things work. I encourage anyone to at least try Linux, and if it's not your thing then so be it.

luceerose

November 14th, 2008, 04:55 AM

If Linux is "hard", then Windows is "soft" !!!

Coreo

November 26th, 2008, 10:21 PM

**Looks around in awe at all the amazing linux-women in this thread**

Haha... I just had to say it for all the geeks out there. :rolleyes:

In all honesty, I'm thoroughly impressed. I never knew there were actually any women out there who installed linux themselves!

Keep it up!!
):P

gjoellee

November 26th, 2008, 10:23 PM

I used about a week to start understanding what I was doing in Ubuntu. I am still learning about a year later. I would recommend showing PCLinuxOS or Linux Mint which is much better to use for someone that is converting to Linux.

bapoumba

November 26th, 2008, 10:29 PM

In all honesty, I'm thoroughly impressed. I never knew there were actually any women out there who installed linux themselves!

Doh, you're late ;)

Coreo

November 27th, 2008, 12:12 AM

Haha....yes, I realize that now.

And I agree, PCLinuxOS is a nice "transitional" linux.

thrice_loved

March 2nd, 2009, 04:05 AM

I left Windows when they were dropping support for '98. I had seen the problems that my father and brother (he's now a computer programmer!) had on windows xp and swore that I was never using it.

I found Xandros and bought a premium box for ~$100. Ok yes - I bought it! But it gave me a great start into the world of free software and it's wonderful community. I was learning on my own so it was especially good as it was completely foolproof and I could call up support if needed.

After a couple of years Xandros was getting older and I made the switch to ubuntu - I haven't looked back!

Ubuntu gives me an OS that is dead simple (anyone who says linux is difficult is lying through their teeth) but lets me play with it to my hearts desire. I love changing the desktop, playing with compiz, seeing what old games from my '98 days will run with WINE (most actually), showing my pretty computer to people and hearing them go ooh! and seeking out new and interesting programs.

On top of that I get to connect with a healthy and positive community that is increasing opportunities for people all over the globe.

You want to sell *nix to women - sell that. Freedom, ease of use, community, constant improvement and shared knowledge. Linux rocks :-)

Omnios

March 2nd, 2009, 04:12 AM

Talking a Windows box to the shop to get fixed of spyware etc can be about as much as a new pair of shoes.

theDaveTheRave

March 2nd, 2009, 12:15 PM

First off you can probably guess from the signature that I'm not a woman!

Recently my sister-in-law was staying with us for a while, and we had an OLD laptop (running Fiesty I think).

That I Set up for her to use.

When I asked her how it was to use, I got a typical response of

"its OK"

when I asked her if there was anything that didn't work she said

"no"

And that was a basic install from a live CD, no "playing" around with settings or anything at all.

I wonder if it would have been the same with vista?

OH incidently, it didn't have wireless on the laptop, so she was hard wired into the net - so she didn't have to "bugger about" with it (and more importantly neither did I ;) )

So I think that for email and internet, just like XP or possibly vista, Linux is fine from the word go.

David.

ps. the wife is REALY against linux, in as much as she get really anoyed that when I send her a word document the formating is all wrong on her machine, so I've taken to sending here the word document and a PDF version, so as she can see how word buggers it up and it isn't my stupid computer / linux / OpenOffice!

Otherwise she is quite happy for me to use it and have the main server at home running it..... but then that is my pc and it has had linux on it since 1994

David

esalnoj

March 27th, 2009, 06:26 AM

Vista is a bit screwy, especially if your laptop came pre-installed with a Lo-jack BIOS tracking bug.

Ubuntu seems to block this bug, plus give better security than windows could dream of.

The bit I hate in Vista is the hidden files you can only see through Ubuntu being installed beside it.

As long as you follow the forum guides, modding your system is a matter of copy-paste.

Regards all,

Esalnoj

RIT_girl

March 28th, 2009, 02:31 PM

Just a college girl throwing her opinion in the mix. And hey, I got my ex-boyfriend to run intrepid, and I run hardy and eeebuntu.

Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?
Yes and No, its not hard once you have the installation CD, and a tutorial, but there isn't a support hotline I can call aside from a nerd friend. That is what scared my little sister (16) away, she didn't want to be be stuck if I wasn't there.

Do you find Linux hard to use?
There is a learning curve, which people forget with windows. And you have to read about how to do something, which no one likes. And I have a habit of deleting important things, so I end up re-installing more often than I should.

Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Yes, I'd have help from my computer engineering friends, but 90% I figured out on forums.

Does it met my needs?
Except for matlab and itunes, I'm pretty happy. Open office conversions are a pain, but people are becoming more apt at using them, so its getting better.

Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I didn't mind vista, but I prefer free. I know you pay for what you get, but so far I'm pretty happy. And while everyone is bitching about windows, I just smile.

I think these apply to anyone who is not comfortable with doing something different, not just women :) We can be just as geeky, we just don't show it.

Famke

April 7th, 2009, 08:00 AM

I like the idea, cool!

Velvet_Man

April 7th, 2009, 08:04 PM

Well I'm not a woman, but I certainly had to contend with this issue with my wife when I decided to install Ubuntu on our laptop.

The laptop is old and was just getting too slow to tolerate anymore, so I wiped Windows XP and installed Ubuntu. Although the initial install was simple (actually quite painless compared to any Windows install I've ever done), there were a lot of little things that wouldn't work (wireless internet, DVD/MP3 playback and Brasero CD burning software kept freezing (reported the bug and it's since been fixed)).

So since I was a linux noob, it took me about two weeks of searching these message boards to get everything working. Since then my wife has come to like linux, and she even uses it a lot more than she uses our XP desktop, but when I mentioned putting Linux on the desktop she freaked out. So even though she likes Linux and uses it frequently now, she still doesn't seem to trust it. Windows is like a comfort blanket for her. Just knowing it's in the house seems to make her feel better.

I hope that helps.

lisati

April 7th, 2009, 08:11 PM

um... seriously? The broadband is slow ^&^%$(*ing slow in New Zealand that no one would dare waste their bandwidth on something that might not even be worth it.

***? I live in NZ within easy walking distance of an ADSL2+ telephone exchange, and although it is slow compared to some places round the globe, my connection speed is somewhat better than that of some of other forum users....
I just checked my speed at http://www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz/ - my download speed showed about 790 kB/sec and upload speed showed about 96 kB/sec. This is way better than dial-up, and is adequate for most of my needs.

Guilden_NL

May 3rd, 2009, 09:18 PM

***? I live in NZ within easy walking distance of an ADSL2+ telephone exchange, and although it is slow compared to some places round the globe, my connection speed is somewhat better than that of some of other forum users....
I just checked my speed at http://www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz/ - my download speed showed about 790 kB/sec and upload speed showed about 96 kB/sec. This is way better than dial-up, and is adequate for most of my needs.

When I read that comment, my immediate thought was "why would a complete noob download? Nobody other than beta testers (like hard core Linux folks) downloads Windows. They install from a DVD."

I have anywhere from 6-10 DVDs of the latest Ubuntu that I give to people to try out. If they tell me they are using wireless, then I offer to set it up for them on LiveCD, just as I would most likely have to do with the latest Windows on a clean install.

momosan

May 4th, 2009, 02:39 AM

Assuming you're a woman...

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

No. I've been using Unix since I was 13 (I'm 28 now), and the moment I got a computer that could support Linux (my family always had older computers than other people had, and I generally only had a computer of my own if everyone else upgraded and left me the old ones), I jumped into it. There were some slight difficulties at first, but nothing too awful, and years of practice have made it easier.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?

No. I find it much harder to use systems that lack the transparency of Linux. I have far more trouble understanding supposedly "easier" systems, because they all seem to have too much abstraction to them. I can't see how they work. And if I can't see how something works on a low level, I can't figure out how to use it on a high level. I find linux easy because I can go in and look at exactly and precisely what is happening and how it all connects to each other, and don't have to use this interface like on some systems where behind the interface seems like a formless and confusing void. But I'm pretty aware this makes me strange.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

I once had someone (a middle-aged woman, actually) help me with a laptop installation but other than that I've mostly been doing things on my own. Right now I mostly figure things out on my own. If I can't figure it out, I look on the net. If I can't figure it out there, I ask a friend. (Most of the friends who help me are also female, and between the ages of 30 and 60. One of them has a boyfriend who's also a linux geek, but I don't ask him stuff any more than I ask her stuff.)

- Does it meet your needs?

Yes, especially now that wine lets me use almost all of the very few programs I was keeping Windows around for. And they uniformly run better on wine.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?

Oh gods yes. I'm too poor to afford Vista. With linux I can put it on anything from the piece-of-crap computer I got for $30 at the local thrift store to the more modern computer I just built from scratch, and get a system I can actually use.

Also, don't just answer the questions, what I'm looking for is an overview of what you think about Linux. How much *** does it kick? Is it really that "nerdy" and "hard" as people claim it is? Would you recommend it to other women as a good alternative to Vista? ... just write about your experience and how you found it compared to Windows - you could also write a direct message as I might send this thread to other people. You don't have to answer my questions, those are really just for suggestions.

Most of the people I know who use linux are nerds, but it doesn't have to be just for nerds. I have a spare computer (that $30 one) running in my house and when other women who go on about how hard computers are (I know exactly what you mean by them) come over, they sometimes use it without even realizing it's linux or knowing what linux is. They don't have any more trouble adapting to it than they do to Windows as soon as they get past the unfamiliarity. And most of them don't even know what an operating system is.

Even so, if I talk to them about it, they think I must be smarter than they are (I'm not) to be able to install linux. Most people buy computers with Windows on them already. I'm guessing if they bought the sort of computer that comes with linux pre-installed, they wouldn't even notice that it's supposed to be harder and only for smart nerdy types. Or if they bought a computer and had someone who's unafraid to use an install disk, install it for them. (But it'd be good to install it in front of them to show them how relatively simple it is.)

What really fascinates people though is the cost-saving aspects. The fact that you can use linux on cheap computers, and go to these software repositories and find all kinds of software free on the Internet that on Windows you'd have to be paying for and far more cautious about downloading. I keep trying to encourage them by telling them that linux is getting more and more user-friendly. (And I have a strong Ubuntu bias in that regard, especially because of the utter dependency nightmare of upgrading when you have an RPM-based system.) And that it's for anyone from people who just want to use their computer, to people who want to get in and see how it works -- but that if you suddenly need to go in and see how it works, you have more of a chance than with other systems.

I also try to explain how a lot of this stuff gets easier the more you get used to it. I wasn't born taking computers apart, I learned that gradually, and the same is true of linux. I know there's some linux elitists out there who want linux to be only for hardcore geeks and do a lot to perpetuate that image, but seriously just because a lot of OSes are messed-up and user-friendly doesn't mean that an OS has to be messed up the moment it becomes user-friendly.

So that's my take on it all. I love linux, and like you I know a lot of women my age and older who are terrified of it for some reason. But I've found they've gotten less terrified the more I've shown them. I ought to actually show them an install one day (and let them try it themselves) just to show how user-friendly even that has become lately. And I think linux is especially useful for people who just flat-out can't afford Windows. Unfortunately lower income seems to often go with less exposure to stuff like this. But it shouldn't have to.

infocop411

May 4th, 2009, 04:26 AM

(does it matter if It a woman thinking it's hard, I know some men think "windows works, why try windows.)

ask them what is hard, have them try it, maybe automate it a little more.
(example being more sh scripts & desktop icons, extra packages installed (my example for a friend was pidgin-facebookchat.) show them what I'm doing.

A doorknob is hard, if you haven't seen one & tried opening it.

A better question is "why do you want to use linux?"
or "what can this do better?" answering these questions along the way & helping them. (where is the windows forums?) pointing out that linux has twice the capacity to help. (not counting paid help or call centers with a different accent that for you is hard to follow.)

el.norman

May 5th, 2009, 06:13 AM

well, watch a video of linux being used...

it make it looks more easier

XanII

May 5th, 2009, 07:51 AM

Wife uses Ubuntu as her sole system. She didnt have a choice as XP is going out of business slowly but surely as is her old Dell laptop. Custom built her a cheap but powerfull PC with ubuntu. :)

Plenty of anger over small things she is used to but generally she uses it fluently, as should any non-computer illiterate person. Its more about wether she is is her 'windows comfort zone' or not. now she is not and it makes her irate but she will live. Told her that she can buy Vista if she likes but she will not get any support for that software. :P

ranch hand

May 16th, 2009, 11:36 PM

My wife bought this new box with Vista pre-installed. It took me 3 days to know we had to change to something else. It took her 3 weeks.

As we were coming from a 1998 model computer (under Win98) Hardy was a huge improvement and easier to maintain.

Basically my wife is not a geek and there is no need to be. I do not really understand the question because this is easier than Vista all the way around.

We would not switch back unless MS decides to PAY us to use their products.

burntresistor

September 29th, 2009, 02:05 AM

Linux can be "hard" fuppes was the bane of my existence for weeks cause I couldn't figure out the error. Whatever trouble I get from linux it doesn't match the hassles I was getting with windows XP. I got the blue screen of death too often. Linux hasn't crashed

Little Bit

September 29th, 2009, 10:52 PM

I would loan her this computer and let her be amazed at its ease and speed. My signature is a link to a little article I wrote (http://www.linuxforums.org/articles/non-geeky-girls-love-linux-too-_368.html) with suggestions on getting women and girls into Linux. Briefly:

1. She needs to have her own reasons to seek a change. If it ain't broken, it don't need fixin'. So don't push it. But if she has a reason to change because her computer is slow, rebellious, BSOD, whatever, then it's just a question of what to change to. For most people, it's Mac because they don't even know about Linux or they imagine that it's too geeky.

2. Letting her use a sweet simple Linux (my introduction was on a super-simple Ubuntu/LXDE remix) will go farther than any technical explanations of why Linux is superior. Let her own experience on a borrowed laptop demonstrate Linux's simplicity and power.

3. If you are one of those techno-people who are always tweaking and fine tuning your computer, she may infer that you are "fixing it" because it needs fixing! Most people just don't know how highly customizable and configurable Linux is. You "tweak" it because you can (and because it's fun). But she doesn't know that. So don't be tweaking and fine-tuning and describing all the changes and improvements you've made, or she may imagine she'll have to do the same thing!

4. To her the computer may be "just a tool." She doesn't mind maintaining it (and she's probably used to maintaining Windows anyway with antivirus updating and scanning and defragging and all that), but she doesn't want to know every detail of how it works and why. She wants it to "just work."

5. Offer her the simplest option for any changes she wants to make or updates needed - even if it's the command line. I find Synaptic really easy to follow, or Add and Remove. Gimmie (http://www.beatniksoftware.com/gimmie/Main_Page) is a nice tool for simplifying the desktop too. She wants to run applications, not her operating system. For her, it's not the OS that matters, it's whatever works quickly and effectively with a minimum of fuss and bother.

The article goes into a little more detail and I hope you'll anjoy reading it!

Amy

stringarray

October 17th, 2009, 06:41 PM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

I've been around since 1994, so yes, I had the bad luck of owning hardware that linux didn't like for years and years. I tried redhat, mandrake, mandriva, corel linux, and the installation always had problems, some hardware did not work (the mouse, or the monitor), I'm even suspicious of a malfunction in a monitor being caused by a linux install intent. I had more luck with mandrake some years ago, I needed to install usb modems (ADSL) and that was hard. And finally ubuntu seemed to really work and did not ask what was the exact model of every bolt ans screw in my machine.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
I find really annoying that I need to use the commandline for everything. I can't delete files because I don't have permissions, so it's commandline sudo all the time. Look, If I have to type "sudo" for everything, just treat me as someone with permissions already, I AM ROOT ok?

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Yes, all the time. I'm expected to know lot of things from the beginning, but I just don't, for example the directory structure. Ok, I installed a program, where is it? I want to run it. Coming from windows, it is hard to find the equivalent to trivial operations sometimes.

- Does it meet your needs?
I still need windows for visual studio, I code in visual C++, I would love to code in linux but trying to install a new IDE and use it after checking-out some c++ code proved too hard. It was problem after problem, I can't spend weeks to just check-out some soft compile and run it, just to see if I find it a nice project to contribute to.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I use it everyday at home, but my professional needs tie me to windows, even if I don't like it. I would like to have a good IDE with debugging and understand clearly the steps to compile and debug C++ code, and no, not from the command line and not using vi, for chrissakes. :mad:

macogw

October 18th, 2009, 05:54 AM

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
I find really annoying that I need to use the commandline for everything. I can't delete files because I don't have permissions, so it's commandline sudo all the time. Look, If I have to type "sudo" for everything, just treat me as someone with permissions already, I AM ROOT ok?
You can create a launcher (right click somewhere on the desktop) and set it to have the command "gksu nautilus" to get a button that opens a root file browser.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?
Yes, all the time. I'm expected to know lot of things from the beginning, but I just don't, for example the directory structure. Ok, I installed a program, where is it? I want to run it. Coming from windows, it is hard to find the equivalent to trivial operations sometimes.
You can usually just type the program name (all lowercase) in the command line (note: type the first few letters and hit <tab> and it'll list programs that start with that). Or hit alt+f2 and type the program name. The $PATH variable makes it so that you don't need to know the exact path to the binary.

- Does it meet your needs?
I still need windows for visual studio, I code in visual C++, I would love to code in linux but trying to install a new IDE and use it after checking-out some c++ code proved too hard. It was problem after problem, I can't spend weeks to just check-out some soft compile and run it, just to see if I find it a nice project to contribute to. C++ eh? I believe Eclipse has a C/C++ plugin. Though really, I think a lot of us just use a text editor for our programming, not a full-blown IDE.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
I use it everyday at home, but my professional needs tie me to windows, even if I don't like it. I would like to have a good IDE with debugging and understand clearly the steps to compile and debug C++ code, and no, not from the command line and not using vi, for chrissakes. :mad:

Not from the command line....meaning "no gdb"?

etali

October 18th, 2009, 06:21 PM

- Do you find Linux hard to install, setup and configure?

I've been using Linux off and on since the late 1990s, and it's gotten a LOT better, but even now I still run into hardware problems. I had a nightmare with a graphics card last time I installed Kubuntu, and I've had lots of trouble with wireless too.

The actual installer is perfectly simple to use, and has been for several versions, it's just the hardware support that makes it more troublesome than Windows.

- Do you find Linux hard to use?
That depends....For web browsing, email, IM, simple document editing, it's really easy to use. I think someone who only wants to do that sort of thing would be quite happy.

It's the more 'power user' types that I think would run into problems. I've found that I've needed to build a lot of other apps from source, and I've had a lot of trouble with specialist apps that are only available under Windows and don't get on with WINE.

I've been using Linux off and on since the late 90s, and I have a lot of experience with servers, so I'm not command line phobic or anything. These days Ubuntu doesn't really demand the command line for much (unless things go really wrong), so I don't think that should be an issue for the average user.

- Have you had someone install it for you or help you out to do stuff?

I am the only Linux user I know, and have been for most of my Linux life (I briefly worked in tech support with a couple of other Linux geeks), so I did all my learning via Google, a big Linux book, and forums.

- Does it meet your needs?
For servers, yes. For some programming work, as a nice stable, low resource usage machine, yes.

For anything else, no.

I need some Windows only apps for my job, and they don't run well under WINE. Also, I'm a gamer, and the games I want just aren't available for Linux.

I run several machines at home (one Ubuntu, one Xubuntu), and a CentOS server. I also have a DSL memory stick I carry with me for emergency usage. My netbook, though, runs XP, and my home system runs Vista.

- Would you consider it a good alternative to Vista?
It depends. For a gamer who wants DirectX 10 / DirectX 11 and Games for Windows Live + the ability to play all their favourite MMORPGs, no.

For someone who just wants YouTube, Facebook, and IM, definitely.

My niece didn't even notice when her computer got upgraded from Win 98 to XP, or from XP to Vista (she has no concept of what an OS is), so I think Ubuntu would be ideal for her.