Is Ireland goin downhill fast?

[derby007]

Is Ireland goin downhill fast......ave we gone past the peak.......another 350 jobs (good technical jobs) gone in Cork - Motorola. Alot of Manufacturing jobs/companies jumping ship.....foreigners in every conceivable job.......mortgages riiiiising......everything gettin more expensive.......should i sell up & move da family abroad ? :(

[koshari]

foreigners in every conceivable job


should i sell up & move da family abroad ?

can you see the hypocrosy here?

[derby007]

hypocracy > damn right.......
i think we'll always be a nation of travellers/migrators, seeking jobs abroad..
Our Government are too stupid to keep us afloat...
Companies come in, we get settled, and then they leave again, leaving us up the creek !

[AndrewMc]

Our economy has expanded to a substantial degree due to the housing "boom". This sent money around in a rapid circle, accelerating the economy in all sectors, but of course this fuelled inflation, sending both prices and wage demands soaring, rapidly eroding our competitiveness. Even "high-quality" jobs such as Motorola are too expensive to maintain here, and I'm amazed Dell are still in Limerick considering it's largely unskilled production-line work.

The problem is, though, that the housing-boom money isn't money that we had, it's money that we've borrowed, much of it from abroad. And unlike spending on industry, a house provides no further economic return - it doesn't manufacture anything, or export anything. They're just going to sit there, and we'll be paying back the loans for decades. Of course, the government (in their usual short-term-view approach to everything) has done nothing to try to stop it, either.

[eoinmadden]

I would but agree with a lot of what AndrewMc said! But in my opninion, no the Irish economy is not going downhill fast.. it is maybe going downhill slowly!
Though the short term future for Dell & Co. don't look good, the government is investing more in research which will help us in the long term. They still ought to invest more in indigenious Irish companies though.
In the short/medium term however the problems in the health service and lack of public transport is damaging our quality of life, and this must be addressed.
In any case, would this topic not make a more suitable thread on politics.ie rather than on an ubuntu board?

[gummibaerchen]

But it's a serious problem in most EU states with all the "east-extension" we had in the past years.

A lot of jobs go east, and for the few jobs left, people come to the west to pick'em up :(

[DeadEyes]

The Irish Examiner says that the number of job vacancies in the IT sector in Ireland has risen 26 percent. That's according to the annual Dublin City University IT Job Survey, which also indicates a 74 percent increase in IT vacancies since the first DCU survey in May 2005.
So it's not all bad, If we could just get control of bloody house prices.

[AudioMove]

I agree with Eoin. Irish Government is investing in research and development. Even at my job, aspects of my job will be moved to Brazil because its cheaper to do it their and we can concentrate on more technical aspects. Alot of companies are still loyal to their irish workforce and we just have to move with the times. We know longer should concentrate on manufacturing but on services.

[JanusGeminus]

It's worth pointing out that Ireland started going downhill when the only thing people cared about was Jobs. Just take a step back and realise that you're still inside a country that's nice to live albeit corrupt and capitalistic in nature.

And of course if nobody can accept that then the option is always there to move to Poland, Looks like a booming country and it would be the reverse of foreigners coming to Ireland(if you in any way think that's wrong).

The simple answer is let the country slide as eventually people will realise that job losses are a natural part of "capital" gain. The torch is moving on, live with it.

[lee797]

Anyone with even a flimsy understanding of economics should know that capitalism is basically a series of upturns and downturns, and Ireland has done amazingly well out of the last 10 years. If you are an IT graduate you should have no problem finding a job, and as for foreigners taking jobs? Well if you really want that job in supermacs I'm sure they'll employ you if you apply for one. There's plenty of work, I just wish the same could be said about hospital beds, but as someone else said this thread hardly belongs in ubuntu forums.:mad:

[mountielad]

The website: http://www.iseverythingshit.co.uk/index.htm pretty much sums up the cultural state of neo-liberal affairs that Ireland, UK, US have adopted. Through globalisation other states are jumping on the band wagon. As a 24 year old the future we're inheiting is bleak to say the least. Yes, there's jobs in Ireland, but do people feel a real sense of attachment toward them? Is our economic up turn one of sustaibaility with social needs met in accordance with our new found wealth?
That's why projects such as Ubuntu are really interesting and provide a non-profit community based system of being! Based on freedom but derived from a communicative ethos, I've told my friends about it! I'm fed up with the commercial privatisation of Irish society and the internet. I recently purchased a Dell laptop with XP and if I see another pop-up, 'install now now or continue what you were doing', initialising [crap] or reminders to buy the latest update I'm gonna fling the thing out of the window! Hence by tomorrow I will have installed Ubuntu.

http://www.iseverythingshit.co.uk/index.htm

[JanusGeminus]

pretty much sums up the cultural state of neo-liberal affairs that Ireland, UK, US have adopted. Through globalisation other states are jumping on the band wagon. As a 24 year old the future we're inheiting is bleak to say the least. Yes, there's jobs in Ireland, but do people feel a real sense of attachment toward them? Is our economic up turn one of sustaibaility with social needs met in accordance with our new found wealth?
That's why projects such as Ubuntu are really interesting and provide a non-profit community based system of being! Based on freedom but derived from a communicative ethos, I've told my friends about it! I'm fed up with the commercial privatisation of Irish society and the internet. I recently purchased a Dell laptop with XP and if I see another pop-up, 'install now now or continue what you were doing', initialising [crap] or reminders to buy the latest update I'm gonna fling the thing out of the window! Hence by tomorrow I will have installed Ubuntu.

It's all pretty pointless though to even consider it as it just gets all too depressing. I only occasionally watch RTÉ news but did so yesterday and when "Market slump" is a big story you know there is a problem. Nobody but the rich actually care a bit about market slumps and indeed thats not the only problem. indeed I must say that this country needs to wake up an realise that we have a social future in Europe and it's time to drop the money fanatics act.

[jimod]

Of course Ireland's not going down hill fast. I lived in Dublin about 15 years ago and it was (with apologies to Dubliners) the absolute pits with derelict building everywhere. A year ago I came back to live in the North West and it's great. My father used to tell me stories about the days when children had no shoes because of poverty.
And if you go to England, IMHO that's going downhill REALLY fast.......

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Thank God I live in the United States! The economy is doing pretty well, and it looks like President Bush is taking care of us nicely. Once President Bush is done here in a year or so, you guys can have him (he'll help fix up the Irish economy). :)

As Capo Status, aka Jim Jones said, "I am doing good, *******."

[kvonb]

I know nothing about Ireland, but from reading some of the posts here I can say that you're not alone!

The entire "western world" is starting to eat itself.

Here in Australia I have witnessed the complete change in society and social values over the last 10 years. We have changed from being a socially responsible and caring society, into being a money worshipping self-centred pseudo-America.

This is all a product of globalisation and corporatism, their goal is to disspell any feelings of Nationalism, national pride, and even international borders.

Destroy the cohesion of society by the age old "divide and conquer" method.

Turn the people against each other by making their existence depend on something other than helping their fellow man, ie remove the rights and guarantees that our fathers fought for, such as unfair dismissal laws, severance pay, unions (not that I'm a fan), human rights, citizens rights.

What these corporations want is to have a whole world of happy consumers, working hard in order to make money to buy "things", useless trinkets like gucci handbags and DVDs.

Change your beliefs, re-write history by putting subtle anachronistic changes into movies, change your values, and ultimately replace your God with money worship.

I seem to remember a passage from a very old book warning about worshipping false Gods :-k.

It makes me sick seeing all these actors and singers being worshipped as Gods, when the vast majority of the worlds population is starving to death, or dying of a hideous disease that could be cured for less than the cost of a burger!

But you can ease any remains of your conscience by donating a small tax deductible amount of money to a "charity". Sure 99% of it goes on "administrative expenses", I mean the director NEEDS that Mercedes to drive around in, and the board needs compensating for the time that they are so graciously giving freely. Plus they really NEED to fly all the "charity" founders to these less fortunate countries (business class of course!), in order to make sure that the money is getting to the people!!!!

Economy before People!

We all see this happening, and we have 2 choices: Ignore it and join them to lead a happy carefree conscienceless life, or see it for what it really is and be miserable, depressed, and ultimately do something about it!

It's your choice :).

[SeanONe]

You should have been around here in the eighties.

"Thank God I live in the United States! The economy is doing pretty well, and it looks like President Bush is taking care of us nicely."
Nice flamebait. I don't know if the next year and a half is going to be a constant degrading humiliation for the Bush criminals or if he's just going to go mad dog and blow another decade of human progress into the weeds. America is ruined either way, you can actually see the walled compounds going up all over the place.

Well if Ireland is scuppered there are a few things which could help us all out.

In an election year those power mad little besuited people will knock on your door upsetting your digestion. If a few hundred people tell them the same thing over and over again, they might smell votes. The little people love a pot of golden votes. Get your parents and kids and neighbours to mention the broadband to the suitdummies when they come a knocking.

Ireland has the worst broadband in, oh lets say the entire planet. I'm probably only off by 10 countries or so. Canadian hilbillies on minimum wage have cheap reliable 10Mbit connections. Aussies in the middle of the outback can crack along at speeds in the 30Mbit range, again for peanuts. Bulldog in engerland offer unlimited downloads at 16 Mbit upspeed of 1 Mbit with a static IP for 32 quid, compare that to the garbage available here at insane prices.

Ireland is the number one backer of software patents in the EU by order of Bill Gates. That's bad. That's like letting CIA planes full of kidnapped people refuel here, or refuelling military planes in Shannon. We should definitely stop backing the software patents ASAP.

[kvonb]

Aussies in the middle of the outback can crack along at speeds in the 30Mbit range, again for peanuts.

Hahaha, no way mate!

I'm 300km from a capital city and before I managed to find a local company who was willing to do it (because of some new government funding), all we could get was 30kbps dialup!

No, not 56kbps, but 30kbps on a really good day! And that would cost you between $30 and $45 a month, plus the $39/month minimum for the phone line.

In my town, we now have fixed-point wireless, accounts starting from $30/month which included 500mb/month downloads @ 256/128 kbps. No where near the mythical 30mb!!!!

The fastest you can get on this system is 2mb/512k, and that gives you a 20gb/20gb (peak/offpeak) traffic quota for $189.95/month!

That is NOT cheap!

We are only just getting ADSL2 in our major cities which goes upto 2mb I believe. But even then you will be limited in downloads AND uploads. Plus you have to be lucky enough to be in a DSL available area, which are very unpredictable.

The US has had unlimited traffic on a 1.5/512 link (DSL) for years, and for that you will pay $39.95! I know that because that's what I had when I lived there in 2002.

So at least you can be happy that you are not alone in the "crappiest internet" stakes :)

[mountielad]

In response to Kvonb and the other sentiments in this thread I couldn't agree more. The west really is on a path of self destruction through the current neoliberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism)policies it ensues. Through globalisation it seeks to drag the majority world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_World) along with it.

It's all to easy to develop a sense of despair but it's important to do our bit where possible. As mentioned: lobbying politicians, talking with others and becoming involved with civil groups and NGO's in real or virtual space. I've recently enaged with some mini adbusting (http://www.adbusters.org/home)and putting stickers about the place :) This is one of the reasons I use Ubuntu! It's alternative and I don't have Dell, microsoft or other companies wanting to upgrade or have a poke around my laptop each time. Already films have generated discourse that questions the current global order: An Inconvenient Truth, Fahrenheit 9/11. One of the most impacting films I've seen in recent years is The Corporation (http://www.thecorporation.com/). It can be viewed on youtube, but try to support the creators of the film and buy a copy!

I wouldn't be too harsh on charities, I know some have had a bad track record and may not be as effective as they make out. But there is growing critical aspect to global development. For example should NGO's operating in Chad or Calcutta just enforce the Western idea of development? So little by little people are putting the pieces of the jigsaw together and seeing reality outside this drive for globalisation.

I think many great theorists and authors are out there to help us understand the complexity of this truly peculiar moment in history. Noam Chomsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky) and David Korten (http://www.davidkorten.org/) to name but a few!

I have spent a lot of time living outside of Ireland and come back each time to a tacky, commercial copy of americana culture. The idea that Irish culture is unique when the origins of Irish dancing and the St. Patricks Day Parade actually come from the US, is a little bogus. Ireland has an amazing culture though. The world's oldest building (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange), a landscape (when not dotted with white bungalows) and seascape that is incredible, a unique celtic heritage that coudl ahve changed the history of the world! And, most importantly a people that, on the whole, have retained a charm, wit and decency that makes me happy to know I always have a home. We are complaining a lot because our value system is being tarnished by those in political power. And let's face it they are gangsters with a greater role as corporate lobbyists! We can now more easily compare our country to continental European value systems of dignity, human rights and an infrastructure and public serivce system that works beautifully and not handed over to private bodies so quickly.

Of course this is just my two cents. Everyone is different and there's plenty of people who will dispute this or stupidly call me a 'commie' or 'shut up, everything's fine we have so much opportunity and prosperity' (a real quote from a Fine Gael hack at a recent house party. He obviously never heard of alienation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_alienation)!) But it is all our responsibility to at least engage with the issues of globalisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_capitalism), neoliberalism etc. We really stand on an environmental and social threshold. Do we buy into Margaret Thatcher's idea that 'there is no such thing as society' only private individuals engaging in an eternal pursuit to acquire captial or do we come together as a community and at least think?

David Korten sized things up pretty well:
"The West is now on a similar extremist ideological path [to communism]; the difference is that we are captive to detached and unaccountable corporations rather than to a detached and unaccountable state. It is ironic that the closer the corporate libertarians move us toward their ideological ideal of laissez faire capitalism, the less responsive the economy becomes to the real needs of people and planet."

So stop commodifying and start discussing.

[derby007]

I like some of the sentiments being written:
I remember (the good old days) when neighbour talked to neighbour, you could leave your front door open at night, you could leave your bike or car(with the keys in it) outside on the main road, you could walk to a local shop (in the country) and get anything from petrol to sweets, friends would meet up (i still dont know how we all mannaged to meet up without arranging it, it was like we had a telepathy thing going) in a local field, and we would play football, 20 versus 20 !, etc etc etc….
Now I see families driving around in BIG bmw/volvo jeeps/suv’s, (with an attitude : get outa my way,peasant), they have BIG houses, surrounded by BIG walls/gates/alarms/dogs, their children look sad & depressed (as they don’t interact with ordinary children !) & I’m thinking if I won the lotto, would I end up like them? I pray & hope that I do not……….. :)

[mountielad]

It's unfortunate the way things have gone especially with younger generations (I'm 25 so not a fogey).

Saying that there is still a genuine something special to most Irish people. A decency, charm and wit that very few other nationalities have. Sure there's only one place I'd rather be to have the craic.

I just hope we retain these values, cast off the corrupt, religious indoctrination and move sustainably forward.

Use your vote wisely in the upcoming elections!

[jonobr]

Im Irish, living in the US. God how I miss home,
However, I thought resurrecting this thread and seeing what you folks think now on this topic is timely and apt.

From where I sit, things sound pretty pretty bad over there.

Best wishes to all,

And dont eat the pork!!!

[eoinmadden]

Last year I said the country was down slowly.
I think I was right then..
Now the economy is going down fast!

The housing bubble has burst, there is an international banking crisis, an international recession and now a food scare. While other countries have the option of bailing out their banks we are broke.
Over the last 10 years the government kept lowering income tax but increasing spending. The shortfall was made up by the increase in stamp duty receipts from the property transactions.
With the property crash, there is no more money coming in from this source and so the government is short of cash.

While I have huge sympathy for the parents who protested against the cuts in teachers, the parents who protested against the cervical cancer vaccine cut, the students protesting against raised registration fees, I think they need know that next year will be worse.

[jonobr]

Hi eoinmadden

Interesting info, I recall hearing (when I was home in Spring) that about 2 in 5 people coming into the country as immigrants were going into the construction industry. They were building for the increase in people coming into the country,
something did not smell right about that, and sooner or later there were going to be tears.

They say misery loves company, things are pretty bad here, stateside as well,
lots of people hanging on by their fingernails, and unlike ireland,
when you drop off the bottom here, it seems as if there is nothing between that and destitution,

I have to believe things will get better, and hope we are some way near the bottom of this.
Without hope , there's no point in getting up in the morning, of course,
as they said in the shawshank redemption, hope is a dangerous thing.

Best wishes to you all for the year to come,

[eoinmadden]

I have to believe things will get better, and hope we are some way near the bottom of this.How Obamian..
I don't mean that in a bad way. I would have voted for Hopey!



Best wishes to you all for the year to come,You too.

[Helios1276]

Its going downhwill alright and seems to be picking up pace but we are by far not the worst off in relation to some others.Also, our leadership is a complete joke and anyone one who repeatedly votes for these idiots should hang your head, though its not like any real issues are ever discussed in the popularity contest that is politics.

[derby007]

Our Government are too stupid to keep us afloat...


....I saw it coming !! Seriously though, our leaders in this country, politicians & bankers et al are a joke, and now the taxpayers are going to suffer (maybe for the next 10 years or more !:( )

[ibutho]

....I saw it coming !! Seriously though, our leaders in this country, politicians & bankers et al are a joke, and now the taxpayers are going to suffer (maybe for the next 10 years or more !:( )


Is Ireland goin downhill fast......ave we gone past the peak.......another 350 jobs (good technical jobs) gone in Cork - Motorola. Alot of Manufacturing jobs/companies jumping ship.....foreigners in every conceivable job.......mortgages riiiiising......everything gettin more expensive.......should i sell up & move da family abroad ? :(
This does not seem to be a problem just in Ireland. In the UK and US people are losing jobs on a daily basis, many things are more expensive than a few months ago and life in general is just a bit harder. As for foreigners being in many jobs, my own experience working in the UK (as a foreigner) is that there many jobs that the locals are not willing to do, or where they cannot cover all the vacancies and therefore foreigners have job opportunities or are required to prevent total collapse of certain sector. In the UK, the healthcare and IT sector seem to rely heavily of foreigners. I also agree with others that its a bit hypocritical to complain about foreigners when you are thinking of moving abroad.

[dueyfinster]

People who saw it coming: you should have told us to short bank shares! Man am I glad I wasn't cought up in that, I heard of a guy who literally had his entire life savings in Anglo and had retired just last year, whoops