Learning a new language

[pay]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

[OzOle]

Hey there,

Suggestions on how to learn another human language:

1. Be motivated:
Why do you want to learn another language?
Unless you have a strong reason for wanting to learn a language you will probably find it very difficult to keep up the motivation.
And why Latin? Latin is a dead language it is not spoken by anyone now living, except some Catholic clerics but then they do not know the correct way to speak the language, so there are many pronunciations of Latin, since no one knows how it was originally spoken. Latin is a language with a very complex grammer, far more complex than e.g. English. On the other hand Latin grammer form the basis for the grammer of the Indo-European languages, including English, so it is invaluable if you are considering a serious study of languages.

2. How to learn
You should know yourself well enough to know whether you could learn another language on your own. Most people seem to prefer a class room setting with other, hopefully, motivated students. There is also the question of how the language is pronounced. How would you learn that from a book? Pretty difficult. After an initial study of a language it would be a tremendous help if you could live or visit a country where the language is spoken, it is a great help to immerse yourself in the language. Finally, my favourite piece of advise: study a little EVERY DAY (15-30 minutes) rather than 3 hours Saturday afternoon. Be persistent.

I hope this helps. And, oh, I have studied many languages in my life including Latin and I speak at least 5 languages, though not all equally well.

You are welcome to send me a direct message if you wish.

Kind regards,

Ole from Laidley Queensland

[pay]

Thank you for the advice OzOle. I wanted to learn Latin because I heard it helps with your understanding of the English language, since 60% of English words and derived from the Latin language. But more specifically, because I'm interested in science and alot of science terms and derived from Latin (I believe the planets are named from Latin. No?). But the main reason is the university that I'm looking at recommends (possibly expects) undergraduates to know atleast two languages.

EDIT: Yeah it does say to you need two languages

Matriculation requirements

These are the minimum entrance requirements for all applicants regardless of course and age, and are designed to ensure you have had a sufficiently broad general education.

Qualifications are required in:

* English
* a language other than English
* an approved mathematical or scientific subject
* two other approved subjects.

[Titus A Duxass]

I had (oder I have) to learn German, this is because I now live and work in Germany.

My recommendations:
1. Watch TV in the language you are learing, no not soaps! News programmes and documentaries.
2. Socialise with natives, especially in bars, etc. Listen and try to engage them in conversation.
3. Take some official schooling, I am lucky my company sends me once a week to school.
4. This is my biggest tip, do not be afraid of making mistakes. I know that my pronunciation is bad and that I get my grammar ****-about-face but most people accept my mistakes. Some people even try and help out.

[pay]

My recommendations:
1. Watch TV in the language you are learing, no not soaps! News programmes and documentaries.
2. Socialise with natives, especially in bars, etc. Listen and try to engage them in conversation.Those are really good situations to be in when learning a new language but I might need to give up on learning specifically Latin. Maybe Greek. But I would prefer Latin for my aforementioned reasons.

Also, where do you look for finding out information about classes?

[mostwanted]

AFAIK Latin is very different from modern European languages.

An easy-to-learn language would be Esperanto (great resource: http://lernu.net) but that's probable less spoken than Latin. It's a great base for learning other European languages though.

What about a Nordic language? Verb conjugation is very simple in Norwegian/Swedish/Danish and possibly Icelandic too.

Spanish is another good one, it's very widely spoken. I want to learn Spanish myself. French is a drag, especially knowing it's on retreat a an international language. So is German and Russian.

Chinese would be interesting but too hard for indo-europeans. Hindi could be interesting, but English is already the lingua franca of India.

[Mateo]

practice all the time. watch TV (if you can) and read newspapers. The second you can definitely do, through the internet. I read a Mexican newspaper every day.

[Terracotta]

AFAIK Latin is very different from modern European languages.

An easy-to-learn language would be Esperanto (great resource: http://lernu.net) but that's probable less spoken than Latin. It's a great base for learning other European languages though.

What about a Nordic language? Verb conjugation is very simple in Norwegian/Swedish/Danish and possibly Icelandic too.

Spanish is another good one, it's very widely spoken. I want to learn Spanish myself. French is a drag, especially knowing it's on retreat a an international language. So is German and Russian.

Chinese would be interesting but too hard for indo-europeans. Hindi could be interesting, but English is already the lingua franca of India.

And there I was thinking that Latin and Italian were somehow related, also Spanish and French are related to latin, they are all part of the Roman Languages (sorry guys, that's a literal translation, don't know the terms in english), where English, German and dutch are part of the German languages.

One can learn latin from a book, it doesn't really matter how you pronounce it, I have heard many people pronounce the same Latin words differently. The pronounciation even changed during history (even though it's a dead language).

The easiest way to learn a language (for me) is to watch television with subtitles (even soap opera, due to the easy conversations are a good start, after a while stop using subtitles, and then start communicating, of course during this period you will still need to study to learn a bit of basic grammar and some basic vocabulary. But then again this is not possible for Latin.

[Pikestaff]

I've been learning Japanese for a few years and it's been largely through an actual Japanese class that has lots of both oral and written exercises, but I also try to watch movies and listen to songs in Japanese.

[Brunellus]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.
Latin is a very difficult language to teach oneself, but it is possible. Most of the usual methods will not work. There are no Latin "audio-only" courses, for instance--spoken Latin has been on a steady decline for about five hundred years or so and has collapsed since the mid-1960s, when it effectively ceased to be the liturgical language for most of the world's Catholics.

Latin is a bit more daunting that most modern languages because it requires the student to do MUCH more memory work in the first six to eight months of intense study. Once you have the basic forms down, you can "bootstrap" yourself into reading more "straightforward" prose works.

The old program for Latin in schools went something like this:

FIRST YEAR: Basic grammar: Declension of nouns, conjugation of verbs; independent and subordinate clauses, basic prose composition. TEXT: Aulus Gellius, "Noctes Atticae," or perhaps the Argonautica or something similar.

SECOND YEAR: More reading. The standard set text is Caesar's "Commentarii de bello Gallico."

THIRD YEAR: Advanced prose, simple verse, advanced Latin prose composition. Set texts: Cicero, "In Catilinam," and Sallust "Bellum Catilinae."

* * *

After that third year (or having encompassed its material), a student can be said to be tolerably fluent in Latin-- roughly equivalent to ILR level 2 or 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale).

Latin is a great language to study in itself, but it should be taken seriously. If you are not interested in learning to read it properly, however, I suggest taking one year of basic Latin, with an eye towards learning structure, and supplementing that by taking a modern, Latin-derived language concurrently. Of the modern Latin-dervied langauges, I would recommend either French or Spanish--both of which are United Nations working languages. French has the added benefit of being, coequal with English, the official language of the UN Secretariat.

[doobit]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

Realize that , for most of us, it will take a long time of practice to become proficient. Latin is hard because almost nobody really speaks it, so it's hard to find people to practice with. You should join a Latin club where people have fun with it.

[pay]

Thank you everybody. I'll be looking into all your suggestions when I get started learning. But I think for now atleast I'll have to do my research on the different languages to see which one would suite me the most. Personally, with the knowledge that I have, Latin seems the most interesting and I don't mind a challenge.

[Brunellus]

Thank you everybody. I'll be looking into all your suggestions when I get started learning. But I think for now atleast I'll have to do my research on the different languages to see which one would suite me the most. Personally, with the knowledge that I have, Latin seems the most interesting and I don't mind a challenge.
having re-read my earlier post, I also want to add this: Once you've learned enough Latin to be reasonably fluent, the original Latin prose of many basic scientific texts (physics and mathmatics, especially!) of the enlightenment period becomes incredibly clear. I would have been far happier if I'd had to read Euler in the original Latin than the drivel that was my high school mathematics textbook in English. Euler was much clearer and more concise in his explanations!

[weatherman]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.
read harry potter in latin :D

[pay]

having re-read my earlier post, I also want to add this: Once you've learned enough Latin to be reasonably fluent, the original Latin prose of many basic scientific texts (physics and mathmatics, especially!) of the enlightenment period becomes incredibly clear. I would have been far happier if I'd had to read Euler in the original Latin than the drivel that was my high school mathematics textbook in English. Euler was much clearer and more concise in his explanations!Thats exactly the reason why when deciding what language I wanted to learn, Latin came to mind first.

[pay]

read harry potter in latin :DI thought you were joking but I decided to search for it anyway and it actually exists:P http://www.amazon.com/Harrius-Potter-Philosophi-Lapis-Philosophers/dp/1582348251

[Brunellus]

read harry potter in latin :D
I wonder how they render the spell casting. There's enough horrible pseudo-Latin in HP to last me a lifetime.

EDIT: anyway, he should be "Henricus Figulus," ("harry" being short for "Henry," thus "Henricus;" and "potter" being "figulus" in Latin (also, incidentally, a common Latin surname).

[sanderella]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

Good for you!!! Go for it!!! :D

[mips]

Latin is a very difficult language to teach oneself, but it is possible. Most of the usual methods will not work. There are no Latin "audio-only" courses, for instance--spoken Latin has been on a steady decline for about five hundred years or so and has collapsed since the mid-1960s, when it effectively ceased to be the liturgical language for most of the world's Catholics.


It's my understanding that nobody really knows what spoken latin sounds like or should sound like.

I had to learn latin when I studied law (don't ask). It was a prerequisite in those days (not to long ago) as our legal system is based on roman-dutch law with english common law thrown in there as well. It was not the easiest thing to learn in all honesty. I still have my text books somewhere.

These days it is no longer required and they shortened the course duration to 4yrs instead of 5yrs. Previously you had to do a 3yr BA Law follow by a 2yr LLB. These days it's just a 4yr LLB.

[Brunellus]

It's my understanding that nobody really knows what spoken latin sounds like or should sound like.

I had to learn latin when I studied law (don't ask). It was a prerequisite in those days (not to long ago) as our legal system is based on roman-dutch law with english common law thrown in there as well. It was not the easiest thing to learn in all honesty. I still have my text books somewhere.

These days it is no longer required and they shortened the course duration to 4yrs instead of 5yrs. Previously you had to do a 3yr BA Law follow by a 2yr LLB. These days it's just a 4yr LLB.
There really isn't one "spoken Latin," anyway. The language was in wide use for something on the order of two and a half thousand years, and so the spoken form of the language has changed considerably in that time.

For instance: when Caesar's legionaries were marching triumphantly back to Rome, they sang this marching ditty:

"Urbani seruate uxores;
calvom moechom adducemos"

(City men, guard your wives;
We're bringing home our bald buggerer)

which was already archaic in 44 BC: the -om and -emos endings are archaic Latin, a throwback to the days of Cato the Elder.

I've become rather lax about my own spoken Latin. I end up sounding like a 14th-century schoolboy, and make few apologies for it. Beowulf was written in "spoken English;" as were the Canterbury Tales, but you don't often hear anyone speak THAT way, do you? Even Shakespeare, whose English is thoroughly modern, sounds strange to us now--and English has been in wide use for just under a milennium. Imagine the shifts for Latin!

[an.echte.trilingue]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

I've done it a couple of times now, and in my experience you need a multi-pronged approach. Dno't rely on one book, one tape, one piece of software. Work on several different things a week to train your flexibility and to solidify what you learned in exercise X when you see it again in book X.

The first thing is to remember to practive every day. 15 minutes a day should be enough for the first couple months.

As for what types of things you should do, I focus on grammar exercises, especially in the beginning, since this is something that you will neglect later on and it really makes a big difference in how seriously people take you. Once you get the basics down, you need to pick up texts and start reading. This will help your vocabulary and your "feel" for the language. You should also try to write a couple of texts a week, even if you don't have anybody to correct them. This will get you in the habit of thinking of the many elements of the language at once.

The rosetta stone software package is awesome in establishing a good beginners vocabulary, but it is garbage for grammar. You need to buy a book of progressive grammar lessons and do them regularly. Formal courses are very helpful. If you ever try to learn a living language, you really should try to do all this in a country where they speak the tongue.

Finally, patience. You will feel like you progress a lot one day and then not at all the next, which is frustrating. This is because the brain goes through acquisition-assimilation phases when learning new things. Just take your time and don't rush things. It takes 24-36 months for your brain to acquire/assimilate all the elements of a written language and three to five years for a living language.

Good luck to you!

Take care
-mat

[bonzodog]

I am British, and have pidgin French, about 40 words of Irish Gaelic, and a smattering of Latin learnt in Grammar School.

I wanted to Learn Latin originally at school, as I wanted to go into one of the few jobs that requires it still - Archivist Librarian, storing old documents, and being able to read them, and a lot of really old documents are written in Latin.

I was told at school that my English skills were of Oxford-Shakespearean level, meaning I was able to extrapolate Latin sources of words, and find links to other European Languages.

In total adversity to that, my maths skills never got above primary school level, as I suffered with a kind of numerical dyslexia, where numbers would just confuse me.

I might well go back to studying Latin soon, as its one of those languages that is often the source for a lot of words currently in use across Europe and Asia, and I was amazed that when I learnt how to count to 10 in Irish, that in fact the numbers sound very much like the French equivalents.

[Brunellus]

I am British, and have pidgin French, about 40 words of Irish Gaelic, and a smattering of Latin learnt in Grammar School.

I wanted to Learn Latin originally at school, as I wanted to go into one of the few jobs that requires it still - Archivist Librarian, storing old documents, and being able to read them, and a lot of really old documents are written in Latin.

I was told at school that my English skills were of Oxford-Shakespearean level, meaning I was able to extrapolate Latin sources of words, and find links to other European Languages.

In total adversity to that, my maths skills never got above primary school level, as I suffered with a kind of numerical dyslexia, where numbers would just confuse me.

I might well go back to studying Latin soon, as its one of those languages that is often the source for a lot of words currently in use across Europe and Asia, and I was amazed that when I learnt how to count to 10 in Irish, that in fact the numbers sound very much like the French equivalents.
and apparently "he said" in old Irish is simply "dixit,"--which is how it's said in Latin.

Stands to reason, after all: the Romans were in contact with Celtic-speaking people for a very long time. Remember that the third division of Gaul, for Caesar, was inhabited by "those people whom we call the Gauls, but who in their own language are called the Celts (Celtae)."

[an.echte.trilingue]

and apparently "he said" in old Irish is simply "dixit,"--which is how it's said in Latin.

Stands to reason, after all: the Romans were in contact with Celtic-speaking people for a very long time. Remember that the third division of Gaul, for Caesar, was inhabited by "those people whom we call the Gauls, but who in their own language are called the Celts (Celtae)."

There are actually many interesting instances of borrowing between the languages, with interesting effects on mondern languages.

Gladiator, for example, comes from the word for sword, Gladius, which in turn comes from the celtic word for knife, (probably gladia), the Celts being renowned for their quality metalwork. If you are ever in southern Germany or France, pay attention to all the towns that have "bon" in the name, such as "Bonne", (the former capital of W. Germany), or Ratisbonne (the french name for Regensburg), and so on. Bon is a fortified place in ancient celtic dialects spoken on the continent.

This stuff is great.

Take care
-mat

[mips]

Stands to reason, after all: the Romans were in contact with Celtic-speaking people for a very long time. Remember that the third division of Gaul, for Caesar, was inhabited by "those people whom we call the Gauls, but who in their own language are called the Celts (Celtae)."

That would be Asterix & Obelix ? :biggrin:

[EmilyRose]

In order to learn spanish, I went and lived in Spain taking immersion classes while there - for about 9 or 10 months (August 05' - May 06)... it worked! I now can speak spanish (fairly) fluently, and reading is pretty easy to, writing... not so great, but I can get by with a bit of proof-reading by friends =)

[matthew]

I've learned a couple of languages. The advice you are receiving is excellent. All I would add is I think it's a great idea and go for it!

This page has some good tips... http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_learn_a_language

[klato]

I would think that it would be very difficult to learn Latin simply because it's not used as an official language anymore (unless you cound Vatican City...and some other place in Europe whose name escapes me right now). Also, you would most likely not be in any sort of interaction with anyone else who speaks Latin (unless you take a class), and even then, I doubt you will ever know if you are really pronouncing things correctly. I think the best way to learn a language is to just be surrounded by that language at all times. You need to live the langauge. For example, I took some Spanish courses in college, and while I learned a lot, I learned a LOT more by spending a couple of months in Guatemala. If you want to learn Latin for scientific purposes or because a lot of the roots of English words seem Latin, then sure go for it. However, I think that Latin is heavily influenced by Greek, and since Greek is still spoken today by over 12 million people, I would try that instead. What's more, is that by learning Greek, you will see a lot of similarities with the Romance languages

It also sounds nice too =)

[tito2502]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

Move to Latin America.

[/joke]

[mostwanted]

And there I was thinking that Latin and Italian were somehow related, also Spanish and French are related to latin, they are all part of the Roman Languages (sorry guys, that's a literal translation, don't know the terms in english), where English, German and dutch are part of the German languages..

French, Spanish and Italian are of course all descended from Latin, yes, but Latin is still very different from the European languages of today. Languages change a lot over 2000 years.

From what I gather, Latin is a completely inflected language which means the order of words in a sentence is pretty much whatever you like it to be. Most European languages of today (with a few exceptions) rely mostly on word order to convey the meaning of a sentence, Latin does not! That's very different from a modern Romance language like French.

[Brunellus]

I would think that it would be very difficult to learn Latin simply because it's not used as an official language anymore (unless you cound Vatican City...and some other place in Europe whose name escapes me right now). Also, you would most likely not be in any sort of interaction with anyone else who speaks Latin (unless you take a class), and even then, I doubt you will ever know if you are really pronouncing things correctly. I think the best way to learn a language is to just be surrounded by that language at all times. You need to live the langauge. For example, I took some Spanish courses in college, and while I learned a lot, I learned a LOT more by spending a couple of months in Guatemala. If you want to learn Latin for scientific purposes or because a lot of the roots of English words seem Latin, then sure go for it. However, I think that Latin is heavily influenced by Greek, and since Greek is still spoken today by over 12 million people, I would try that instead. What's more, is that by learning Greek, you will see a lot of similarities with the Romance languages

It also sounds nice too =)
Linguistically, Latin and Greek are distinct; though they have a lot of structure in common, I found it very hard to transfer my knowledge of Latin to Ancient Greek. Maybe I simply wasn't putting the hours in, but there are enough "gotchas" in Greek to really slow things down. The same would apply to someone moving from Greek to Latin.

Modern Greek, as far as I've been able to work out, is about as similar to Attic Greek as modern Italian is to Classical Latin--that is to say, not really. As far as derivative languages go, Latin probably outstrips a fair number of the rest of the European languages. I note, again that two Latin-derived languages (French and Spanish) are official UN working languages.

Once again, if "total number of speakers" is a useful metric, then Chinese is the language to learn now--at least a billion in the PRC alone, plus millions more in the diaspora.

Spanish might be less valuable to the OP, since it's not a dominant language in his region. In the Americas, Spanish is *everywhere*, and so it's not a bad choice for the language learner.

I'll repeat my previous advice: if the OP wishes to have a sense of structure and etymology, he should take a year or two of Latin concurrently with either one of French or Spanish.

Considering the present state of Latin instruction (in the English-speaking world, at least), OP would likely not even benefit from three years of formal Latin instruction at the secondary level. Where previously students were expected to be able to read & write in Latin by the third year, this goal is almost always eroded, and I have encountered too many university Latinists who cannot even read a simple sentence without recourse to their textbooks.

[mips]

Isn't romansh close to vulgar latin ?

Anyway, resources in latin:
http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima wikipedia
http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/ newspaper
http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/ radio station
http://www.google.com/intl/la/ google
http://recherche.univ-montp3.fr/cercam/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=36
http://www.academiathules.org/index.html
http://www.academiathules.org/index.html online courses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin

[ComplexNumber]

Linguistically, Latin and Greek are distinct; though they have a lot of structure in commonthey are both indo-european.

spanish i one of the easiest languages to learn. english is one of the most difficult.

[Brunellus]

French, Spanish and Italian are of course all descended from Latin, yes, but Latin is still very different from the European languages of today. Languages change a lot over 2000 years.

From what I gather, Latin is a completely inflected language which means the order of words in a sentence is pretty much whatever you like it to be. Most European languages of today (with a few exceptions) rely mostly on word order to convey the meaning of a sentence, Latin does not! That's very different from a modern Romance language like French.
word order is still somewhat important in Latin, but not nearly as important as in other languages.

The curious thing about Latin is that the inflections allow you to make amusing word-pictures. Take, for instance, the sentence:

cerebrum saxo comminuit

"He shattered his skull with a rock."

It is possible to be playful in Latin by literally "shattering" the skull (cerebrum) with a rock (saxo):

cere saxo comminuit brum

it's this sort of thing that inspired ee cummings' rather fanciful free verse in English.

[koenn]

The curious thing about Latin is that the inflections allow you to make amusing word-pictures
Didn't know that one. What i found interesting in Latin is indeed that the word order is very free - and how that allows the speaker to convey meaning and nuance by the order he choose. Some languages still have that too : German, Russian, other Slavic languagues. It's quite a revelation if you've never seen it before, and that in itself is the major reason i don't regret having spend countless hours learning Latin in secundary school.

Other than that, I can't add any advice that has'n been given yet. Just that a mix of formal studie (books/tapes and/or classes) mixed with lots of exposure (TV, bars !!) works for me. Not for learning Latin, obviously, but for some other languages I learned.

And also : the second language will be the hardest to learn, because thhings you've taken for granted for years will suddenly not be correct anymore. (Read some of the threads on why windows users have such a hard time using Linux and you'll get the idea :) )
Once you know 2 or 3 languages, it gets easier, especially if they're related.

to Brunellus : study mathematics in Latin ?! respect !

[an.echte.trilingue]

they are both indo-european.

spanish i one of the easiest languages to learn. english is one of the most difficult.

That is competely subjective. It depends what your starting point is. For a French speaker, that is true. For a Dutch speaker, nothing could be further from the truth. For a Chinese speaker, they are probably about the same.

Inherently, though, there is no language that is easier or harder than another.

[mcglnx]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

Don't bother with a dead language!
Try some modern ones that are very intersting to learn - russian, german, chinese, spanish,..

[facefur]

As one who actually did study Latin for 3 years in secondary school, I can personally tell you that it did me little if any good toward other langauges, including English. I did read Caesar and Cicero, and thereby gained some historical perspective, but I was always disappointed that I permitted my advisor to talk me into 3 years of Latin, rather than move to another langauge like French.

Of course, if what you want is recognition of the roots of english vocabulary, it will help, but so will some German and Spanish as well.

I'd recommend studying a language in which you can still communicate with people - German, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese...

[pay]

Thanks for all your replies. I went to bed and didn't think that i would wake up to that many!! I know I haven't responded to you all but I am taking in all your suggestions wither I say so or not so I am truly great full.
Isn't romansh close to vulgar latin ?

Anyway, resources in latin:
http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima wikipedia
http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/ newspaper
http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/ radio station
http://www.google.com/intl/la/ google
http://recherche.univ-montp3.fr/cercam/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=36
http://www.academiathules.org/index.html
http://www.academiathules.org/index.html online courses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LatinThose where exactly what I was looking for before I went to bed, but couldn't find. THANK YOU!

For those who have suggested learning a different language than Latin, I'm not ignoring you. I'm still doing my research, but at this time Latin looks the most interesting.

Okay, I have just one more question. For those of you that have learned Latin, what are some good books to start with? Or all they all pretty much the same?

[Brunellus]

Thanks for all your replies. I went to bed and didn't think that i would wake up to that many!! I know I haven't responded to you all but I am taking in all your suggestions wither I say so or not so I am truly great full.Those where exactly what I was looking for before I went to bed, but couldn't find. THANK YOU!

For those who have suggested learning a different language than Latin, I'm not ignoring you. I'm still doing my research, but at this time Latin looks the most interesting.

Okay, I have just one more question. For those of you that have learned Latin, what are some good books to start with? Or all they all pretty much the same?
Cambridge Latin Course is quite good; my teacher friends seem to like it.

Wheelock is also pretty decent; the Wheelock method tries to get as many "real Latin" sentences to the student as soon as possible, which is something I'm a big fan of.

If you wanna party like 1909, there's Allen & Greenough's New Latin Grammar (http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/AG_1.html), which defined "schoolboy Latin" for us.

[pay]

Thanks. I'm going through Allen & Greenough's New Latin Grammar now.

[mcglnx]

Thanks. I'm going through Allen & Greenough's New Latin Grammar now.

Don't!!! try a non dead language! prefer german or russian - same/similar difficulties + wonderfull culture and possibility to use it 'real life'!
Stop learning things 'just' to impress friends! try to make it usefull! life is too short!

[mips]

Don't!!! try a non dead language! prefer german or russian - same/similar difficulties + wonderfull culture and possibility to use it 'real life'!
Stop learning things 'just' to impress friends! try to make it usefull! life is too short!

He wants to learn Latin. Why can people simply not accept that the desires of others are not the same as theirs and simply leave them alone ? How would you feel if people told you to do things which were in opposition to what you wanted ?

[mcglnx]

I do accept!
I was just thinking that Latin is not useful to get known or rich (any more)....
Pay will do the choice. I'm confident with him :)

[BarfBag]

There's probably not any software for Linux that does this, but I brushed up on Spanish (before going on a trip to Mexico) with a really cool program. I forget what it was called. You buy yourself a headset, hook it up, and repeat what they say back. It even had a little meter with "Tourist" on the bottom, and "Native" on the top. They had it in other languages, if I remember correct.

[mcglnx]

There's probably not any software for Linux that does this, but I brushed up on Spanish (before going on a trip to Mexico) with a really cool program. I forget what it was called. You buy yourself a headset, hook it up, and repeat what they say back. It even had a little meter with "Tourist" on the bottom, and "Native" on the top. They had it in other languages, if I remember correct.

Cool! I'd love to try it!

[pay]

Don't!!! try a non dead language! prefer german or russian - same/similar difficulties + wonderfull culture and possibility to use it 'real life'!
Stop learning things 'just' to impress friends! try to make it usefull! life is too short!I'm not trying to impress friends. I haven't even told anyone that I'm learning another language. Anyway, I already explained why I wanted to learn Latin in an earlier post.
He wants to learn Latin. Why can people simply not accept that the desires of others are not the same as theirs and simply leave them alone ? How would you feel if people told you to do things which were in opposition to what you wanted ?Humans sometimes aren't capable of accepting other peoples views sometimes. There have been wars over people's different views on religion for example.

[Brunellus]

one of my very good friends has just coded up an AWESOME vocabulary trainer in latin:

http://verba.adfontes.com

[pay]

one of my very good friends has just coded up an AWESOME vocabulary trainer in latin:

http://verba.adfontes.comTHANK YOUR BRUNELLUS!!!
Please thank your friend for making that from me!

[iPower]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

i can talk and read and write Swedish English Finnish

best way is to listen and watch and maybe even go to a language lesson


im thinking of learning japanese (hate waiting for the translated manga and anime) ^_^

[pay]

I recently switched to kde on my Gentoo box and found Klatin. Seems pretty useful. I'm compiling it now.

[ember]

i can talk and read and write Swedish English Finnish

best way is to listen and watch and maybe even go to a language lesson

im thinking of learning japanese (hate waiting for the translated manga and anime) ^_^

Now that we are talking about learning languages and you are, if I am not mistaken, from Sweden: Do you know whether there are (affordable) courses for foreigners to improves their Swedish skills?

I will possibly work in Sweden for some months and I am currently learning Swedish with the help of a book called "Tala Svenska" and the corresponding audio cds as well as a computer program called "Swedisch aktiv". I do however fear that I will need some extra training to be able to talk to Swedish people in their native language.

Best regards,
ember

[KentS]

When I first started learning Latin a while back I used the course Lingua Latina (http://www.lingua-latina.dk/index2.htm). The idea behind the course I think is quite new when it comes to learning languages, but highly interesting. You basically just start reading texts in latin. I went through more than half the first book before I needed to open a dictionary, or had to start practicing verb conjugation. You learn these things automatically by reading the texts. At the same time I was able to understand surprisingly much of texts written by Julius Caesar. Just as an example, the first chapter begins with "Roma in Italia est. Italia in Europa est. Graecia in Europa est. Italia et Graecia in Europa sunt. Hispania quoque in Europa est." And your vocabulary and knowlegde of grammar increases in this manner. I find this method to be more natural and fun than having to start memorizing conjugations and words from a dictionary, which is the method used in school and by Linguaphone. (I also like the courses from Linguaphone, but not quite as much.)

Sorry if this sounds like a commercial, it's not meant to be. I have just tried to tell you how I started learning latin, and I found this method to be a nice way of learning.

Do you know of any other courses with a similar approach?

[Brunellus]

When I first started learning Latin a while back I used the course Lingua Latina (http://www.lingua-latina.dk/index2.htm). The idea behind the course I think is quite new when it comes to learning languages, but highly interesting. You basically just start reading texts in latin. I went through more than half the first book before I needed to open a dictionary, or had to start practicing verb conjugation. You learn these things automatically by reading the texts. At the same time I was able to understand surprisingly much of texts written by Julius Caesar. Just as an example, the first chapter begins with "Roma in Italia est. Italia in Europa est. Graecia in Europa est. Italia et Graecia in Europa sunt. Hispania quoque in Europa est." And your vocabulary and knowlegde of grammar increases in this manner. I find this method to be more natural and fun than having to start memorizing conjugations and words from a dictionary, which is the method used in school and by Linguaphone. (I also like the courses from Linguaphone, but not quite as much.)

Sorry if this sounds like a commercial, it's not meant to be. I have just tried to tell you how I started learning latin, and I found this method to be a nice way of learning.

Do you know of any other courses with a similar approach?
the school method is meant to put you in a condition to read actual Latin as quickly as possible. I've used the term "bootstrapping" before in this thread, and I'll use it again here.

The great difficulty with starting any language is that a student needs a bare minimum to be able to function before moving forward. In Latin, the "bare minimum" is quite a lot of things, as the inflections are rather complex (even if the language itself is very regular).

Ideally, one combines readings with intensive study of vocabulary and grammar, all three reinforcing each other. But sadly, nobody really does proper language study any more...

[KentS]

the school method is meant to put you in a condition to read actual Latin as quickly as possible. I've used the term "bootstrapping" before in this thread, and I'll use it again here.

The great difficulty with starting any language is that a student needs a bare minimum to be able to function before moving forward. In Latin, the "bare minimum" is quite a lot of things, as the inflections are rather complex (even if the language itself is very regular).

Ideally, one combines readings with intensive study of vocabulary and grammar, all three reinforcing each other. But sadly, nobody really does proper language study any more...

I'm sorry if I was unclear, but the difference between these methods isn't wether you learn grammar or not, but *how* you study grammar and vocabulary. When you first start out learning your very first language, you don't sit down memorizing a lot of grammatical rules. You learn the grammar by listening to how people around you talk. And you don't learn your first words by describing the new words with other words. You learn the words by connecting images to them, or if they are more abstract, by observing the context they are used in, and the consequences it gets. The way I understand it is that the course i mentioned are based on these ideas.

I realize that there might be a weakness with this method considering that you aren't surrounded by the latin language all the time. But I do believe the method I mentioned gives you a very natural introduction to a new language. You learn new words with images, which is also used in Linguaphones courses, instead of using words in another language. I believe this helps you avoid having to translate every word you read into a different language to understand them. (You do get a small dictionary with the course) And you learn, and understand, grammar by context, not because its what the table in your book tells you. (You do get a pamphlet containing grammar for traditional study with the course.) Therefore I believe that this method gives you a great flying start in a new language, and a good basis for more advanced study.

[KentS]

Now that we are talking about learning languages and you are, if I am not mistaken, from Sweden: Do you know whether there are (affordable) courses for foreigners to improves their Swedish skills?

I will possibly work in Sweden for some months and I am currently learning Swedish with the help of a book called "Tala Svenska" and the corresponding audio cds as well as a computer program called "Swedisch aktiv". I do however fear that I will need some extra training to be able to talk to Swedish people in their native language.

Best regards,
ember

I know I'm not the one you asked. I'm not from Sweden, I'm from Norway. And I don't know about any courses. I just want to say that normally you shouldn't have any problems communicating with people from Sweden (or Norway or Denmark) if you know English. People from these countries normally understands English very well, in case you worried. But it will be greatly appreciated if you speak, or even just try to speak the native language. And most people will be very understanding if you have a bit problem speaking Swedish. Anyway, it is great that you try to learn a new language to talk to people in their native language.

[mips]

Now that we are talking about learning languages and you are, if I am not mistaken, from Sweden: Do you know whether there are (affordable) courses for foreigners to improves their Swedish skills?

I will possibly work in Sweden for some months and I am currently learning Swedish with the help of a book called "Tala Svenska" and the corresponding audio cds as well as a computer program called "Swedisch aktiv". I do however fear that I will need some extra training to be able to talk to Swedish people in their native language.

Best regards,
ember

If you are from a Germanic speaking language the other germanic speaking languages should not be to hard to learn. I for instance can read read afrikaans, dutch, flemish, german and I could make a bit of sense from the scadinavian laguages, icelandic being the hardest of the lot.

[happy-and-lost]

Latin's great. It's not really "speakable", per se, but it does give you a great foundation on which you can easily learn other Latin-based languages.

[ember]

If you are from a Germanic speaking language the other germanic speaking languages should not be to hard to learn. I for instance can read read afrikaans, dutch, flemish, german and I could make a bit of sense from the scadinavian laguages, icelandic being the hardest of the lot.

It is actually not too hard for someone who already had Latin and English at school, yet I am not what you call a language-genius, so it still requires quite some labour for me to learn a language to a point where it can actually be used in conversation.

I suppose, my English is good enough for conversation (yet far from perfect) and I had no trouble in Stockholm last year, because everyone's English was very good. Still I like to get to a point where I am able to chat with Swedish people without sounding like a 3-year old ;)

[mips]

It is actually not too hard for someone who already had Latin and English at school, yet I am not what you call a language-genius, so it still requires quite some labour for me to learn a language to a point where it can actually be used in conversation.

That is always hard but we struggle on and people correct us, part of the learning process I would say.



I suppose, my English is good enough for conversation (yet far from perfect) and I had no trouble in Stockholm last year, because everyone's English was very good. Still I like to get to a point where I am able to chat with Swedish people without sounding like a 3-year old ;)

Das ist gut ! I'm fortunate to have had good german neighbours down the road and learnt all weird words like imho smetterlling, kartoffeln etc. Things I would have never known. But essentially the germanic languages are pretty close to each other.

[mips]

Talking about languages. We had a tv series called "Simpleximus Titius" or something of the kind. I think the original was in German but I could be wrong. Does anybody know who wrote the book as it was based on a book. Any info would be welcomed.

[lisati]

Languages, huh! I had to learn a little Samoan, 'coz I hang out with a bunch of Samoans/=

[timd01]

[QUOTE=Beowulf was written in "spoken English;" as were the Canterbury Tales, [/QUOTE]

Beowulf is actually in Old English or Anglo-Saxon, here is the first line:
Hwæt we Gar-Dena in gear dagum

and Chaucer in Middle English, and here is the first line of the General Prologue, Canterbury Tales:
Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

Having said that I can recomend The Cambridge Latin Course for a latin novice.

[thatguruguy]

Hey. I was thinking of learning a new language, specifically Latin. Since this is quote a diverse forum, I was wondering how everyone else learned to speak a secondary language. What method worked for you? Audio tapes? Lessons? Books? Internet? Even though everyone learns things differently, I still think that a short discussion would get me onto atleast the first stage. Thank you.

It's easiest to learn if you speak to native speakers. Therefore, you may want to spend some time in a land where the language you want to learn is spoken every day.

In your case, that means Latin America.

[sudoer541]

I want to learn Hebrew, its a nice language!
I havent seen any Jewish people around my new area yet.
Shalom!

[sudoer541]

I had (oder I have) to learn German, this is because I now live and work in Germany.

My recommendations:
1. Watch TV in the language you are learing, no not soaps! News programmes and documentaries.
2. Socialise with natives, especially in bars, etc. Listen and try to engage them in conversation.
3. Take some official schooling, I am lucky my company sends me once a week to school.
4. This is my biggest tip, do not be afraid of making mistakes. I know that my pronunciation is bad and that I get my grammar ****-about-face but most people accept my mistakes. Some people even try and help out.

I like number four the most, because I know people who are afraid of making mistakes.
Although the rest of your points are very logical.

[yester64]

I only can give my thoughts to it from my experiences.

If you learn a language, you should make sure that you use the language because otherwise you will loose everything you learned.
Languages are living things and what one learns in class is different to what people use in real life.
I have tried once french and you got to learn to breath differently to really get word and sentences right.
But i recommend a learning class over any teaching tapes.
Face to face learning benefits more since you can correct errors right away, where if you learn from computer or tape you might carry an error over. And errors are hard to get rid off.
But that is my thought on it. Other people might have a different experience.

I speak and write in german/english. French,...well... we'll forget that better. ;)

[yester64]

I want to learn Hebrew, its a nice language!
I havent seen any Jewish people around my new area yet.
Shalom!

mazel tov

[yester64]

It's easiest to learn if you speak to native speakers. Therefore, you may want to spend some time in a land where the language you want to learn is spoken every day.

In your case, that means Latin America.

But Latin is a death language. We do talk about the roman language, do we?

[yester64]

I had (oder I have) to learn German, this is because I now live and work in Germany.

My recommendations:
1. Watch TV in the language you are learing, no not soaps! News programmes and documentaries.
2. Socialise with natives, especially in bars, etc. Listen and try to engage them in conversation.
3. Take some official schooling, I am lucky my company sends me once a week to school.
4. This is my biggest tip, do not be afraid of making mistakes. I know that my pronunciation is bad and that I get my grammar ****-about-face but most people accept my mistakes. Some people even try and help out.

Small world, kind off.
I came from over there and live now in california.
I heard last time in the radio here that some countries are more forgiving if a foreigner makes mistakes than others.
Can only tell from here and i know american's are very forgiving. Sometimes that can have an impact too if you learn a language. Kinda different topic i assume..

[murderslastcrow]

I actually just used Mnemosyne and listen to the music, then when I feel adventurous, I read some news articles in that language. This is because flash cards are simple and effective the way Mnemosyne structures them, music is usually more simple with language and helps you with annunciation, and articles are about as complicated as the language typically gets in regular conversation.

[sudoer541]

mazel tov


Toda! :p

[zami]

Some more Latin links for ya -

A Latin homeschool curriculum comparison & review chart
http://www.homeschoolchristian.com/curricula/reviews/latincomparison.php

"Latin's Not So Tough!" (it's in the chart above, but the link is semi-hidden. And I point this out because it's one I've considered purchasing.)
http://www.greeknstuff.com/latin.html

In the big comparison chart, please note it's not all for a teacher/pupil scenario, plenty are self taught. And it's not all elementary student either. Same with the religious demographic - plenty of secular curriculums in there.

Anyhow it may or may not be useful to you. I saw "Latin" and had this in my bookmarks - so there ya go!

Good luck in whatever language you decide on.

-zami

Oh yeah - PowerSpeak, too
http://www.powerspeak.com/Latin%20high%20school%20year%201.html
spendy. But there are options for teacher support and school credits in there as well. (Sorry if someone already pointed out PowerSpeak, I only skimmed the replies.) I went through the trial for one of the younger grades and found it annoying... but that might be because 90% of everything aimed at children is annoying. The highschool program could be the bees knees.

-zami

[rapper97]

There are no Latin "audio-only" courses

Nope - it sucks, but Language/30 has a cassette-only course (yes, you read that right; it's likely been rereleased on CD).


Isn't romansh close to vulgar latin ?

You'll sometimes see arguments about which is "closest" to Latin - Italian, Romanian, French... The fact is, languages are going to change a lot over 2,000 years, and different varieties are going to be conservative and innovative in different ways - phonologically, morphologically, etc.


at this time Latin looks the most interesting.

Dude, that should be your singular criterion. That is your best predictor of success at learning a language - what inflames your passion most? What will you give the most time to effortlessly? So Latin is hard, and dead. Pfff... Whatever, so what? So you're gonna learn Spanish? How many thousand million other kids've learned Spanish... *yawn!* The thing is, any language you learn well is going to open up doors you never imagined were there before... and if you learn Spanish, great, you can join all the other rich kids backpacking through South America. And, OK, there will be more jobs open to you... but as I said, there's also more competition. Whereas if you learn Hausa, or Luxembourgish, or Latin... well, you're pretty much in a class by yourself, aren't you? You can kind of write your own ticket when someone needs a Twi-to-English translator.


what are some good books to start with?

I just heard all sorts of good things about Latin via Ovid, though I can't recommend it personally.


Anyway, resources in latin:

How 'bout somebody post some distros in Latin? (http://l10n.kde.org/teams/la/screenshots/1.jpg) ;D


Considering the present state of Latin instruction (in the English-speaking world, at least), OP would likely not even benefit from three years of formal Latin instruction at the secondary level.

That's what the Internet's for. ;)

[Inodoro Pereyra]

When I came to the US, I didn't speak hardly a word of English. Right from the first day, I've always watched TV in English, with the closed caption "ON". With that, and an English-Spanish pocket dictionary (and the endless patience of most every American I have met), I started learning. I still have, after 11 years here, a long way to go, but I'm at least able to understand and be understood.

About Latin, it's difficult, because, as it's been said before, it's a dead language, so you can't learn it from the people, unless you hire a professor.
That said, last year I have come across the 27 language version of Rosetta Stone, and that program impressed the hell out of me. It really does make it easy to learn a language. In that DVD you will find Latin (although I think it's only level 1), but, as a bonus, you will get levels 1 and 2 of Italian, which is to Latin pretty much what American or Australian English is to British English. ;)

[ninjaaron]

I don't know Latin, but I have studied six other dead languages and four living. You shouldn't listen to anyone in this thread except for Brunellus. He's the only one who seems to really understand studying a dead language. It's an entirely different game than studying a living language.

My advice, if you are really serious, is to get into a course if you can. If you can memorize all of the forms in the first year, then you can go it alone with dictionaries and reference grammars. But seriously, you have to memorize all the forms before your Latin will be useful. This is because with a dead language, you are only interacting with texts. Texts that are worth preserving usually express complex ideas and use the full range of forms that the language has to offer. Hitting a word you don't know isn't such a big problem, but if you fine a word and you can't even recognize the form, it can be a show-stopper. This is very different from learning a spoken language, where you can use the basics to say and understand basic things long before you've mastered the grammar.

Also, I wouldn't bother too much with studying vocabulary after you work your way through a beginning grammar book. You just need basic vocabulary to get yourself off the ground, and then you will look up words as you read. When you look up a word, write it down. When you get to the end of you text or selection, go back through and read it again with your word list. Perhaps read it again before going to bed. The only real way to learn vocabulary is through use, and in a dead language, that is through reading. Reading aloud is also good, since you're not actually going to be having (m)any conversations.



I had to learn latin when I studied law (don't ask). It was a prerequisite in those days (not to long ago) as our legal system is based on roman-dutch law with english common law thrown in there as well.I like how you say 'don't ask,' and then explain it anyway.:P


english is one of the most difficult.That is not true. English has far fewer forms to learn than almost any other language. There are a few difficult things, like pronunciation and the huge number of subtly nuanced auxiliary verbs and tenses, but it is possible to communicate without mastering these.


Don't!!! try a non dead language! prefer german or russian - same/similar difficulties + wonderfull culture and possibility to use it 'real life'!
Stop learning things 'just' to impress friends! try to make it usefull! life is too short!Just stop.


I want to learn Hebrew, its a nice language!
I havent seen any Jewish people around my new area yet.
Shalom!If you want advice about Hebrew, you can email at ninjaaron@gmail.com (mailto:ninjaaron@gmail.com) or message me. I've finished the highest level of Modern Hebrew as a foreign language from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and I've studied Biblical Hebrew for five years. I guess you could say that Hebrew is 'my thing.'

I'm not Jewish, however, if that's what you're interested in.

[ninjaaron]

Why did I not realize this thread was resurrected before I read all of it and replied?

[rapper97]

as it's been said before, it's a dead language, so you can't learn it from the people, unless you hire a professor.

People say a lot of things, sometimes over and over - that don't make 'em true. ;)


Why did I not realize this thread was resurrected before I read all of it and replied?

I wanted to leave it alone, man, but when I saw that "no audio-only courses for Latin" thing I couldn't let it slide.


You shouldn't listen to anyone in this thread except for Brunellus. He's the only one who seems to really understand studying a dead language.

I think that's true, but I also this this whole "dead language" thing has been overplayed. If you really wanna learn Latin, and not just translate Virgil or whatever, listen to and read the news, set your Google to Latin, hang out in chatrooms, meet people to practise with half an hour a week on Skype... all stuff I would recommend if you were learning a modern language.

If Latin is a dead language, it's a special case, not like studying Egyptian. Although not spoken natively, at no point have new Latin texts ceased to be produced, although that number has dropped precipitously. They call it "Living Latin" for a reason. In fact, I think learning Latin is more like learning a minority LCTL - if you're outside of the Big City, you won't have anyone to talk to in your town, there won't be any TV shows or movies, but maybe a radio broadcast or two you can find on the 'Net, and scattered formal self-instruction programmes, but not every company would offer it, like they do Spanish and French, and it would be hard to take classes unless you went to a larger university. The difference between learning Hokkien in Boise, Idaho, and learning Latin is that Latin has 2,000 years of literature to back you up. But don't think that Latin stops at the 20th Century's door; there's stuff like Harrius Potter (which is why I found this thread) and Quomodo inuidiosulus nomine Grinchus Christem Natalem abrogauerit. Which I'm sure you can't say for any of the "dead" languages you've studied (with the exception of Ancient Greek, to a lesser extent).


__________________
Someone Is Wrong on the Internet™

[Inodoro Pereyra]

About Latin, it's difficult, because, as it's been said before, it's a dead language, so you can't learn it from the people, unless you hire a professor.


People say a lot of things, sometimes over and over - that don't make 'em true. ;)

In this case, linguists say it. That does make it true.


I think that's true, but I also this this whole "dead language" thing has been overplayed.
If Latin is a dead language, it's a special case, not like studying Egyptian. Although not spoken natively, at no point have new Latin texts ceased to be produced, although that number has dropped precipitously.

Maybe you should take a look at the definition of "dead language" to start with. Let me help you:


In linguistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics), language death (also language extinction or linguistic extinction, and rarely linguicide or glottophagy[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_death#cite_note-0)) is a process that affects speech communities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_communities) where the level of linguistic competence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_competence) that speakers possess of a given language variety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_%28linguistics%29) is decreased, eventually resulting in no native (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_speaker) and/or fluent speakers of the variety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_death

And, while we're at it, here's what Wikipedia says about Latin:


Latin (English pronunciation: /ˈlætɪn/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English); Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language): lingua latīna, IPA: [laˈtiːna] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Latin)) is an Italic language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italic_language)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin#cite_note-2) originally spoken in Latium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latium) and Ancient Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome). It, along with most European languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European), is a descendant of the Ancient Proto-Indo-European language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language). Although it is considered a dead language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_death), a number of scholars and members of the Christian clergy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_clergy) speak it fluently, and many schools and universities continue to teach it.[/URL]

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin#cite_note-3)

A language doesn't die because no more people in the World understands it. It dies when there's no more people in the World using it as their primary language. Sure, you can practice most any language (dead or alive) 1/2 hour a day, by whatever means that may be within your reach, but that's a far cry from living in a place where people speak it more or less exclusively, 24/7.

[ninjaaron]

I think that's true, but I also this this whole "dead language" thing has been overplayed. If you really wanna learn Latin, and not just translate Virgil or whatever, listen to and read the news, set your Google to Latin, hang out in chatrooms, meet people to practise with half an hour a week on Skype... all stuff I would recommend if you were learning a modern language.


You have a point, I will grant. It is not quite like learning Egyptian. It depends on what your goals are. If by "really" learn Latin, you mean have conversations and write prose and poetry, by all means, oral practice will be the best way to go. If you want to understand the liturature and language of the Romans as exactly as possible and avoid forcing ideas from the modern usage of latin into classical texts, a more descriptive, observatory linguistic approach will be more appropriate. Neither goal is better or worse, but they are certainly different, and will lead to different types of knowledge. I know something about this, being qualified to teach both Biblical and Modern Hebrew, but having studied the two through entirely different methods.

I personally would find it much more interesting to read and understand Virgil and Caesar well than to chat with a stranger over skype in Latin or attempt to create substantial works of art with it, but your milage may vary, and that's totally ok. I will stay that studying "Living Latin," while it may be a great help and supplement, it cannot replace study of the classical language through philological methods (which I know from my experience with Hebrew).

[szymon_g]

what's a point of learning Latin (especially classical)?
i'd rather prefer to learn Interlingua ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua )- language heavily based on existing languages developed from old, good, vulgar Latin (+ English). really easy, quite usable /for word creating etc/.

[ninjaaron]

Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it.

[szymon_g]

yes, yes, i heard that already.
of course- without deep knowledge of latin it is impossible to learn history? all translation suddenly evaporated?

[oxf]

You have a point, I will grant. It is not quite like learning Egyptian. ).

And exaxtly what language is "Egpytian" :confused:

[michaelcarey95]

I'm in my third year of German in school. It works pretty good. I watch Tageschau often to supplement my classroom education.

I've learned Arabic through a variety of sources. One is ArabicPod, a podcast type thing where you can learn. And a lot through my local masjid (mosque). I never went to madressa, but I still learned things from the bros around me, and they answered a lot of questions I had about grammar. Plus it helps to hear people speaking it around you. I've made some pretty funny statements, accidentally, in Arabic. :P