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View Full Version : Reverse Engineering Fink?



jclmusic
January 29th, 2007, 11:26 AM
would it be possible to reverse engineer fink to allow cocoa and carbon apps to run with gtk?

3rdalbum
January 30th, 2007, 08:54 AM
Fink is only the equivilent of apt-get. As I see it, the only way you'll get OS X programs running on Karuna OS is by developing the equivilent of Wine or preinstalling PearPC.

macmatt
February 1st, 2007, 04:52 AM
Hey dude buy a Mac and develop Mac apps natively - the environtment and IDEs really blew me away with HOW intuitive and easy to use they are!.

Would you explain to me what it is that you are trying to do with this - combining OS X frameworks with GTK?. Why?. :-k

I just got into "Quartz Composer" in OS X Tiger - w0000t!!! :D

3rdalbum
February 1st, 2007, 09:31 AM
Would you explain to me what it is that you are trying to do with this - combining OS X frameworks with GTK?. Why?. :-k

He wants his new Linux distribution project to be able to run Mac OS X apps in the same way that Wine runs Windows apps.

jclmusic
February 1st, 2007, 10:58 AM
He wants his new Linux distribution project to be able to run Mac OS X apps in the same way that Wine runs Windows apps.

lol basically yes, but i realise it's gonna be nowhere near that easy. i'm just throwing ideas round to see where the easiest starting point might be.

i think the combination would be a killer!

macmatt
February 1st, 2007, 01:48 PM
BSD would be a better starting point... oh, and you have a *lot* of work ahead of you, why don't you consider a Mac?!. Much easier and a lot more fun.

Auria
February 2nd, 2007, 02:38 AM
lol basically yes

You want to reimplement all of Apple's APIs?? :???:

good luck! :lol:

macmatt
February 3rd, 2007, 09:47 PM
Hey my friend, I respect where you are coming from, as I am an inventor and innovator myself. Just wanna know though; what is the purpose or point in making Apple .app files wok on Linux?. I am interested, not because I wanna do anything like this, but just from pure curiosity - hope it doesn't kill the cat, because our cat is gorgeous hehe!. :)

From all my time in computers - about 12 years on and off, I have used BBC model B, Commodore VIC 20, Amstrad (wow we ARE going back now!!) PC with windows 3.1/98se/ME/2000/XP/2003 PC + Linux Distros (LOADSSS) and finally Mac OS X Tiger. To be perfectly honest, Tiger fills all the gaps that every other OS has failed to fill, time and again. Please realise that this is *only* my personal opinion, but I can see no benefit from running a translation layer/emulator to run OSX .app files within Linux, unless purely for proof of concept purposes alone.

When I bought my Mac, just over a month ago, I felt I had a lot to learn, but it is all *SO* easy, that it puts all the other OS' I have used to shame in SO many ways, I could not possibly begin to explain them all. Save to say, I see WHY people use Linux, but Mac has been such a revelation - even more so than when I first ever used Linux :D, that I shall be using this platform from now on, for 99% of my time in computing. I wish you the very best in success, achieving what you are setting out to do, but if you ever have the chance to use a Mac/borrow a Mac for an extended period, if you have not done so as yet, then I cannot recommend them ENOUGH!.

Have fun - keep us posted - very intrigues as to the goals you are trying to reach - I'm sure its going to fantastic fun, and also a great deal of frustration, but that is how we learn hey!.

:D

jclmusic
February 4th, 2007, 12:38 PM
Hey my friend, I respect where you are coming from, as I am an inventor and innovator myself. Just wanna know though; what is the purpose or point in making Apple .app files wok on Linux?. I am interested, not because I wanna do anything like this, but just from pure curiosity - hope it doesn't kill the cat, because our cat is gorgeous hehe!. :)

From all my time in computers - about 12 years on and off, I have used BBC model B, Commodore VIC 20, Amstrad (wow we ARE going back now!!) PC with windows 3.1/98se/ME/2000/XP/2003 PC + Linux Distros (LOADSSS) and finally Mac OS X Tiger. To be perfectly honest, Tiger fills all the gaps that every other OS has failed to fill, time and again. Please realise that this is *only* my personal opinion, but I can see no benefit from running a translation layer/emulator to run OSX .app files within Linux, unless purely for proof of concept purposes alone.

When I bought my Mac, just over a month ago, I felt I had a lot to learn, but it is all *SO* easy, that it puts all the other OS' I have used to shame in SO many ways, I could not possibly begin to explain them all. Save to say, I see WHY people use Linux, but Mac has been such a revelation - even more so than when I first ever used Linux :D, that I shall be using this platform from now on, for 99% of my time in computing. I wish you the very best in success, achieving what you are setting out to do, but if you ever have the chance to use a Mac/borrow a Mac for an extended period, if you have not done so as yet, then I cannot recommend them ENOUGH!.

Have fun - keep us posted - very intrigues as to the goals you are trying to reach - I'm sure its going to fantastic fun, and also a great deal of frustration, but that is how we learn hey!.

:D

i love macs, i use them every day at university. but i don't love the price, fixed hardware, drm, etc.

macmatt
February 4th, 2007, 06:00 PM
i love macs, i use them every day at university. but i don't love the price, fixed hardware, drm, etc.

** Price - you get everything you pay for, and it is easily worth it, quality and support wise (and for the amount of software that is included - FREE!)

** Fixed hardware - Intelligent thinking by Apple, because it means that they can control *exactly* how their software interacts with Macs, and this is why the Mac is extremely stable. It is an intelligent business model, and one which has proven to be a complete success. They can also run Linux and windows, should you wish to, by means of Boot Camp / Parallels Workstation. I booted PcLinuxOS liveCD two days ago, and it worked!. This level of interoperability is unrivalled by both Linux OR Windows. Yes, I know you're gonna tell me Linux supports more hardware than OSX, but of course it does - Mac OSX have only their logic boards/hard drives/chipsets to worry about - a VERY limited range of products, and to branch out further and sell OSX as a separate product, for use on ANY PC, would evoke the same 'one-size-fits-all' nightmare that Windows has to deal with (and FAILS!).

To limit yourself to this small range of hardware devices is a very sensible idea. Period. No support calls about motherboard drivers, because it takes care of itself completely, and is transparent to the average user.

** DRM - How else are they supposed to protect the artists that have signed up to iTunes with them?. Not everyone agrees that all music and content should be totally free. The level of DRM compared to Microsoft for example, is minimal and non-intrusive. Microsoft want to take over your hard drive :(. If you pay for the music you want, then I can see no problem with it - you'd still have to buy a CD/DVD from the store, unless you were a 'warez' dude, in which case you'd not even care LOL!.

I agree that they are expensive, but price is relative - relative to how much you value having your computer be able to just get on and work for you, in the context of the ratio of tweaking to using; I mean that with Linux you seem to spend a great deal of effort and time, just getting various components to talk to one another, when you could have that time on a Mac, as productivity hours. :). Linux is fantastic - Unix based is ALWAYS good. Macs are Unix based, but they don't require all the fuss to setup.

It all depends on what you want from a computer. My initial reaction (call me fanboy if you like - hehe) to your project, was "Get a Mac, and be done with it". If you value the Mac apps as much as you probably do, then why not go the whole hog, and do it properly, instead of fiddling and twiddling and re-inventing a wheel, that is already perfectly smooth and well oiled.

Enough of my babbling - I love Macs but I can see you are coming from an angle where you want to save money, and I respect that point of view. I sincerely hope that if you *do* consider Mac OSX as a viable option to your lifestyle, that you won't be pirating Mac OSX to run it on wintel. That would be a shame, to say the least!.

Have a great time.

jclmusic
February 5th, 2007, 12:35 PM
lol i've already tried osx86, it didn't recognise much hardware (unsurpisingly).

yes i know artists should be protected (i'm one myself!), but drm just pisses off end users and is not the way to go about it.

and macs are VERY expensive when u consider that i could build something with better hardware myself for less than 100.

macmatt
February 10th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Mac is the best personal computer. Period.

Polygon
February 11th, 2007, 02:30 AM
it depends on your point of view. Everything that a mac can do ive found works perfectly fine in ubuntu.

drm: why support it (buying from the itunes store). just go by the cd and live drm free. Not to mention you can re rip it using any codec, any quality and put it on any music player in the world. Talk about open.

and not to mention mac os x locks you into apple hardware (a new type of drm??) only, unless you do one of those cracks to make it work on non apple hardware.

sure, id rather have mac os x then windows, but i still believe that free and open source are the way to go.

3rdalbum
February 11th, 2007, 09:46 AM
Apple *does* have a lot of lock-in. I tried to access some old Appleworks word processor files on Ubuntu the other day. Appleworks didn't use open standards, so I couldn't find a way to get the files to work on Linux and I can't afford to pay someone to reverse-engineer the format.

macmatt
February 15th, 2007, 11:50 PM
it depends on your point of view. Everything that a mac can do ive found works perfectly fine in ubuntu.

:confused: Ermmm how on earth did you come to that conclusion?. Can you uninstall apps by dragging to trash?. LOL. Nice sentiment, but the reality of your statement is a little bold, to be perfectly honest. I think that what you have just said, is highly improbable - Ubuntu is great and very useful - I am about to install it in a sec, but you're saying that it can do *EVERYTHING* Macs can do?

:lolflag:

_NOT_

3rdalbum
February 16th, 2007, 06:00 AM
:confused: Ermmm how on earth did you come to that conclusion?. Can you uninstall apps by dragging to trash?.

No, but on Ubuntu you can easily uninstall apps without leaving their system extensions running.

tubasoldier
February 16th, 2007, 06:29 AM
Uh, wow! i have never seen such a pro Apple thread on a forum.

I do like Mac, I like the interface, I like the sability, and I will more than likely purchase one for my wife after I graduate and can afford it.

But seriously, macmatt, you should totally chill out. Do you realize your on a Linux forum? Of course you do! We all know that Apple makes a great operating system. I prefer it over Windows anyday. However, telling Linux users that "Mac is the best os, period" is a pretty bad idea. Not that it isnt a great os, Its just not what all the rest of us are here to talk about. I'll talk about Apple and OSX on a mac forum somewhere else.

macmatt
February 16th, 2007, 05:00 PM
I'm not even going to get into this discussion - we all know the truth. Bias towards Linux is bound to emerge on a Linux forum. Desktop for the public, however, it is not. Linux is the "HeathKit" of the software world - build it yourself and tinker. Funnnn

Alfa989
February 16th, 2007, 09:15 PM
And macs are VERY expensive when u consider that i could build something with better hardware myself for less than 100.

That's highly unprobable... But I dare you to do so...:)

Alfa989
February 16th, 2007, 09:16 PM
Everything that a mac can do ive found works perfectly fine in ubuntu.

Name an App that allows you to do the same as iMovie HD...

3rdalbum
February 17th, 2007, 10:54 AM
I've not used iMovie for a number of years, so I don't know what features have been added since, but I can think of half a dozen Linux video editors with interfaces that DON'T frustrate me (for someone who has used real video editors, iMovie's interface is horrible!)

Alfa989
February 17th, 2007, 12:39 PM
I've not used iMovie for a number of years, so I don't know what features have been added since, but I can think of half a dozen Linux video editors with interfaces that DON'T frustrate me (for someone who has used real video editors, iMovie's interface is horrible!)

I'm talking about "normal users", that want something easy to use...
Can you put the names of the apps? I'd like to have a look at them...:)
http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/

macmatt
February 17th, 2007, 05:11 PM
I've not used iMovie for a number of years, so I don't know what features have been added since, but I can think of half a dozen Linux video editors with interfaces that DON'T frustrate me (for someone who has used real video editors, iMovie's interface is horrible!)

LOL!. I'm pretty certain that you're one, of a very small minority that finds iMovie hard to work - I have tried (AND tried :( ) video editing in this app called "cinelerra" - what a complete farce, to even get it working properly, let alone *use* it. Final Cut Pro, anyone?!. :D

Defend as you may - Macs edit video better than *any* platform on the market - it doesn't need proving, it's a fact that you'd be hard pressed to dis-prove. "iMovie" and "difficult" are two words that are rarely used in the same sentence. It is designed for teenagers to use!.
You can think of half a dozen, non-linear video editing apps for Linux?. With all the codecs and drivers for firewire and capturing?. Really?. Please continue to tell the tale... this is gonna be interesting....

The words "flaky" and "underdeveloped" spring immediately to mind. No offence, but iMovie and Final cut aren't just open-source "tinker and modify" hobby projects, they are commercial market-leading apps, developed by Apple, sold by Apple, and used seamlessly by millions upon millions of very satisfied customers/editors. iMove isn't hyped as a "professional" app, it's included within iLife, for "average" (lol) people, who just want to create anything from a youtube video blog, to a home movie from their Mini-DV cam. Oh, and it also handles HD footage - what can do that in Linux?. I'd love to know.

Problem is this: seeing as the Linux community has this notion whereby they refuse to use closed-source codecs (Stallman) and insist on .OGG etc, and making the codecs available separately, this means that *seamless* and out-of-the-box functional editing, of all the popular formats, is a struggle and possibly an ethical dilemma, which handicaps those using it. The cold facts, are that the *rest* of the world _USE_ these codecs, and by all means use your FOSS codecs, but don't expect the rest of the world to ditch what is the industry standards, just so that they comply with the FOSS philosophy of political correctness. We don't all think that software should be a battle; some of us just wanna get on with our lives, use the apps, do the work, and go to bed at night. Doesn't make us bad people, just different in the way we approach the whole issue.

jeffc313
February 18th, 2007, 01:47 AM
I'm not even going to get into this discussion - we all know the truth. Bias towards Linux is bound to emerge on a Linux forum. Desktop for the public, however, it is not. Linux is the "HeathKit" of the software world - build it yourself and tinker. Funnnn
thanks for trolling! Have a nice day :)

MaXqUE
February 18th, 2007, 10:53 AM
I do believe that Objective C is abailable for Linux.I just did sudo apt-cache search objective C



gobjc - The GNU Objective-C compiler
gobjc-4.1 - The GNU Objective-C compiler
gnustep-antlr - Objective-C Classes Needed for ANTLR Compatibility
gnustep-base-common - GNUstep Base library - common files
gnustep-base-runtime - GNUstep Base library
gnustep-dl2 - Objective-C Classes Needed for Database Access
gnustep-gd - Objective-C Interface to the GD Graphics Library
gnustep-gui-common - GNUstep GUI Library - common files
gnustep-gui-runtime - GNUstep GUI Library - runtime files
gnustep-netclasses - Objective-C framework for socket programming with GNUstep
gobjc++ - The GNU Objective-C++ compiler
gobjc++-4.1 - The GNU Objective-C++ compiler
gobjc-2.95 - The GNU Objective-C compiler
lib64objc1 - Runtime library for GNU Objective-C applications (64bit)
libcamelbones0 - an Objective C <-> Perl bridge for GNUstep

That is just a small part of the output of that comand. Objective C is the language that most Mac OS X are written in. It was also the language develped by Steve Jobs NeXT and NeXTStep proejects.

Basically, all the things you like most about Mac OS X can be implimented on LInux -- even to the drag and drop applications. No one has done it yet quite yet.

Not as much is top secret about Apple as most people seem to think. You can download their developer tools free.

Cheers,
MaXqUE

macmatt
February 18th, 2007, 05:48 PM
Hmmmm - then do it Linux!.

MaXqUE
February 19th, 2007, 12:03 AM
Hmmmm - then do it Linux!.

Oh and one other thing! Fink is an open source project and a GNU one at that! You can see the source code, you dont' have to reverse engineer it at all!

Cheers,
MaXqUE

rayt5
February 20th, 2007, 04:16 AM
There's more to computers than ease of use. Mac is of course better at a lot of things. But guess what? So is Linux. And so is Windows, for that matter. What if I want to render high quality 3D animations like Pixar? I would use Linux, of course. Or if I was an engineer who needed highly specialized drawing apps, I would use Windows, bar none. If I wanted to edit professional quality video, then the choice would be a Mac. You guys keep saying what the "best" OS is. There's no such thing! And Macmatt keeps hinting that open source software is always inferior to proprietary. That's true often enough, but definitely not always. Besides the iTunes store, I prefer Amarok to iTunes because it has more features and less restrictions. Can you easily add songs from your iPod to a different computer that you own using iTunes? No? And don't forget about Firefox and Thunderbird. They integrate with all 3 main OS's automatically. Then there are the things that each OS cant do. Each OS has them, and they are all different. If you want a light, bare-bones server, you don't go with Mac OSX. If you want to just play games and edit video, you don't go with Linux. And if you want to program, you don't go with Windows. There is no best OS. They are all good at different things. So while Macs may be best for you (and your price range), they may not be as good for different people that want to do different things with their computers.