More reasons to hate Microsoft

[wh0rd]

ops, sorry about that folks! here's the correct link: http://www.bluej.org/mrt/?p=21

[GrammatonCleric]

I'll bite...why?

[Tomosaur]

He linked to the wrong page - but Microsoft has 'stolen' a BlueJ feature, and has applied for a patent for it, even though BlueJ has been using it for years. The BlueJ developers do not like patents though, which is why it's not already covered. If Microsoft's patent is successful, then BlueJ could be destroyed - meaning many Java students will miss out on BlueJ's great features (paving the way for C#), and those other apps which also use this feature (borrowing it from BlueJ, with credit etc) could be sued.

[jblebrun]

Well, BlueJ should have documentation of the existence its implementation of the feature to present as prior art, right?

[Engnome]

Link to the story. (http://www.bluej.org/mrt/?p=21)


Well, BlueJ should have existence of its implementation of the feature as prior art, right?

Yes in the end (if they get that far) they will be right, but proving that means taking up the battle with MS lawyers, not an easy task.

[LordHunter317]

Yes in the end (if they get that far) they will be right, but proving that means taking up the battle with MS lawyers, not an easy task.No it doesn't. If it's unquestionably prior art, then they file with the patent board and the patent is denied.

MS doesn't generally enforce most of their patent portfolio anyway. It's virtually defensive in nature, and they wouldn't even bother if our system wasn't so broken.

[Tomosaur]

Yeah. The MS developers (at least) already know that the Object Bar thing was already a feature in BlueJ before they implemented it (as evidenced by the blog entries from MS people responding to the post from BlueJ when they first noticed that Microsoft had implemented it). At the moment, it could just be a miscommunication between the developers and the people responsible for filing patents, but it should be interesting to watch.

[Dygear]

The BlueJ binary in its self is prior art. The source is another place to find it.

If Microsoft is granted the Patent it would sux for the BlueJ group as they would have to get a lawer to fight the patent. Could take a very long time to do as Microsoft would stall them for a very long time (5 years, or more). But if the event that the BlueJ group get's the patent from Microsoft they could then sue them, for the aggravation they caused. Ah, that would rock.

However it should not happen in the first place, as long as the US patent office is worth it's salt.

[k_smolka]

full story is available at:

Microsoft’s goes BlueJ - http://www.bluej.org/vs/vs-bj.html
Microsoft’s Patents BlueJ - http://www.bluej.org/mrt/?p=21

[meng]

However it should not happen in the first place, as long as the US patent office is worth it's salt.
Oh no! We're all doomed!

[Note360]

Damn, this looks bad. At this rate Mono wont make it through the year. What do you think?

[Tomosaur]

Damn, this looks bad. At this rate Mono wont make it through the year. What do you think?

I think Mono would continue unharmed - I don't think C# can be 'patented' as it were, since it's just a language. The Windows tools and compilers and whatever cannot be used with Mono, but they're not anyway, so it doesn't matter. .NET itself is just a paradigm, and Mono doesn't attempt to implement much of the .NET features. I don't think this will affect Mono much, if at all.

[pmasiar]

patent was withdrawn http://blogs.msdn.com/danielfe/archive/2007/01/28/update-response-to-bluej-patent-issues.aspx

[slavik]

MS also has a patent on cvs/svn type system (awarded in 2000)

[Greykrrr]

Oh how I bask in my european freedom where software patents thankfully hasn't been granted yet!

It's absurd to think that somewhere in the world it is possible to patent the human genome and two taps on a mouse in rapid succession.

I have a suggestion to make all this a thing of the past. Simply pass a bill that says that 'intellectual property' should only be the property of intellectuals!

[WiseElben]

patent was withdrawn http://blogs.msdn.com/danielfe/archive/2007/01/28/update-response-to-bluej-patent-issues.aspx

Good. I never liked BlueJ when I was forced to use it, and that feature was fun and all, but I would rather test it the old fashioned way, writing out samples in main(), but MS simply copying of BlueJ and trying to patent it was... tasteless. That's an understatement.

[LordHunter317]

As I said before, if you understand their primary patent policy at this point, not really. If they'd intended to use it offensively, sure. But most of their portfolio is defensive in nature.

[pmasiar]

LOL I just imagined poor 800 pound gorilla MSFT defending itself from small little monkeys :-)

[LordHunter317]

And they've had to do just that, and lost some cases which caused quite a fiasco with IE and plugins.

If they wanted to use their patent portfolio offensively against OSS, they would have by now. It's just harder to do so the longer you wait.

[pmasiar]

If they wanted to use their patent portfolio offensively against OSS, they would have by now. It's just harder to do so the longer you wait.

MSFT was hardly eager to be a bully and attack other companies by patent suits while under investigating for being agresive monopoly and on the verge of being split to forster competition. So *of course* they did not attacked anyone then - they pretended to be nice to avoid company being split. Now the danger is over, and they can "lean forward" and squish a competitor on good occasion.

I also think the patent was intended to be used not against blueJ - any (sane) court would be on blueJ side. But all other competitors in visual IDE area (eclipse, intelliJ, etc) would be prime targets for the patemt suit: blueJ has defense (prior art) but others don't.

It is harder and harder for MSFT to maintaing the profit margin and yearly growth. Many microsofties have loads of money on options they cannot sell (and if they did price would fall) so they need to keep stock price up. They have planes, boats and homes to pay for. :-) I remember article published in nation Geographic about area with highest density of millionaries per sqaure mile - Redmont suburbs. parallel to road behind the houses is a channel, and in channel in backyard of every house is nice boat and floating plane.

[LordHunter317]

MSFT was hardly eager to be a bully and attack other companies by patent suits while under investigating for being agresive monopoly and on the verge of being split to forster competition.That doesn't make sense, nor is it relevant. They didn't do it before, so the anti-trust suit could not have had anything to do with it.

Hell, AFAIK, they don't charge for usage of most of their patented tech and god knows it's everywhere.

I also think the patent was intended to be used not against blueJ - any (sane) court would be on blueJ side. But all other competitors in visual IDE area (eclipse, intelliJ, etc) would be prime targets for the patemt suit: blueJ has defense (prior art) but others don't. But the patent will be held invalid if they ever tried to sue, due to prior art. So if it was granted and they were aware, the only possible use is defensively (and not even really then, it would still be shot down).


It is harder and harder for MSFT to maintaing the profit margin and yearly growth. Patent suits won't gain them either.