Is Ubuntu not afraid to lose #1 position?

[AmpLiF1eR]

Hi all...

I was wondering,

More and more Linux distributions come out of nowhere which delivers a fully automated linux experience where the terminal is no longer needed and are ready out of the box so you don't need any know how and looks amazing, like it is an Operating system on their own with full multimedia support etc etc out of the box.

Examples: DreamLinux , Elive, SabayonLinux , Pardus.

Will Ubuntu change direction to keep a strong position ?
Ubuntu was an easy distro a long time ago but in comparison to others, it is much more difficult because you have to do everything yourself so it is not user-friendly anymore (more like a build-yourself kit and learn Linux).

I don't want to sound negative but I'm just wondering if Ubuntu knows what's happening around them because when I look at Feisty Fawn, there is not really something surprising yet.

Greetings,
Amp

[rai4shu2]

A nice, slow and boring upgrade is one of the things that makes Ubuntu so great.

[tribaal]

Hum, just out of curiosity, why do you think being the number one linux distro is so important?
What if Ubuntu slides to number 10? Well... nothing :) Mark Shuttleworth might be a little disapointed, but I don't see the big deal except for that ;)

Most linux distros (at least all free/libre ones) send their contributions to upstream projects, so they end up helping every linux distribution anyway (see what ubuntu does with GNOME for example)

And you do understand that not having the multimedia codecs installed by default is a *choice*, don't you? :)

- trib'

[AmpLiF1eR]

A nice, slow and boring upgrade is one of the things that makes Ubuntu so great.


hahahahahaha .... sorry, this was funny :D

[zerhacke]

The only real thing Ubuntu has to worry about when it comes to popularity is that it uses only free software. Other distros may be including non-free software out of the box, but they're running the risk of lawsuits while doing it. I could see another "easier out of the box" distro temporarily becoming more popular on Distrowatch, but as soon as they do they get put in the crosshairs and will invariably either lose a lawsuit killing the project off altogether or they'll remove the easy-out-of-the-box bit and Ubunut will overcome them on popularity again.

[aysiu]

More and more Linux distributions come out of nowhere which delivers a fully automated linux experience where the terminal is no longer needed and are ready out of the box so you don't need any know how and looks amazing, like it is an Operating system on their own with full multimedia support etc etc out of the box. Maybe this is news to you, but there were already distros like that long before Ubuntu even came on the scene.

Mepis and Linspire and Blag have all had multimedia support out of the box for years. PCLinuxOS is a relative newcomer, but it's nowhere near Ubuntu on DistroWatch's unscientific rankings.

It doesn't matter to Ubuntu if it's #1 or not. Ubuntu is designed to fix this bug (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1), not compete with other distros.

[Johnsie]

Most popular flavours use a lot of the same software. It doesn't matter who is number 1, as long as the software is improved and remains open we all benefit from the success of other distros. That is the joy of open source, we all build upon each others acheivements.

[aysiu]

Johnsie's absolutely right. For more details, read this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2007433#post2007433).

[meng]

It's a sign of the size and diversity of the Ubuntu community that there is so much good-natured disagreement as to the direction that Ubuntu should take. Bleeding-edge vs. stable, bling-y vs. functional, open-source vs. proprietary, Windows-like or not. Assuming that maintaining #1 position is the goal (a goal I consider quite UNimportant!) then I don't agree the best strategy is to emulate distros which are in no imminent danger of taking over that position.

[Extreme Coder]

I think Ubuntu has the choice to 'guide' you in installing the codecs you need. For example, when you try to play a file with a closed format, it could tell you "This file needs codec MS_IS_EVIL. Would you like to install it?" So instead of file hunting and such, you could just click on install needed codecs, and its there. And at the same time, Ubuntu wouldn't come with the codecs, so it won't be in danger, I THINK.

[aysiu]

I think Ubuntu has the choice to 'guide' you in installing the codecs you need. For example, when you try to play a file with a closed format, it could tell you "This file needs codec MS_IS_EVIL. Would you like to install it?" So instead of file hunting and such, you could just click on install needed codecs, and its there. And at the same time, Ubuntu wouldn't come with the codecs, so it won't be in danger, I THINK.
Already done for AmaroK. I'm hoping that's a precedent that will be followed for other programs as well.

[Extreme Coder]

Already done for AmaroK. I'm hoping that's a precedent that will be followed for other programs as well.

Hmm.. Really? I never knew about that, I will go check it out.

* removes libxine-main1 and libxine-extracodecs*

*trys to play mp3 from amaroK*

Yup, I think you're right. It asked me to Install MP3 Support. I clicked the button, it installed the needed libraries, and it worked! Now I think the user can't ask for much more :D

I think it is a great first step, but we shouldn't halt here, we need to get it to other programs like the GNOME programs for example.

BTW, can this be done too in case the user needs a codec from w32codecs? Or is it too illegal?

[Henry Rayker]

I am a little confused...how would you install from source on some of those distros in which "the terminal isn't needed"??? Terminals are used to install from source in Macs, the command line is used in Windows (albeit very seldomly) and I think they have a perfectly fine place in Linux.

Maybe everyone else sees it differently, but every time someone says, "ewww. I don't want to touch that icky terminal!" I just imagine someone saying, "gee...I wish I could use my computer but I hate looking at a monitor..." There are just some things the terminal is better suited for. I don't think Ubuntu is too reliant on the terminal (if you disagree, please give an example of a situation). Honestly, I only use the terminal when I WANT to, such as creating a directory structure, comparing files (<3 the diff command) and other little things that make my life easier.

[mykalreborn]

ubuntu is pretty user friendly. and a little terminal work and understanding a bit more about computers in an IT driven world never hurt anyone. i, for instance learned what type of graphic card by using linux. i learned what is the differnece between x86 and whatever. etc...
plus, i always liked writing in the terminal. it just makes you a little bit like being in matrix.:p
and it makes you look pretty smart. all my friends allways said:"you really understand these things, dude? you must probably be really good at computers!" ;)
ubuntu is going to get even more user-friendly with the launch of feisty fawn.
and like everyone said, it's not that important to be #1. what's important is to help the open-source gain ground in front of the closed-source software. and that's not going to happen if we keep using the same old codecs in linux, pre-installed, but only if we don't, and do the corageous thing of installing only open-source codecs. (i'm a bit of a hypocrit though, as i have some codecs installed, but only for mp3 playback :D)
and since you mentioned it, i honestly don't think ubuntu is going to be 2nd place on distrowatch. ;)

[Johnsie]

I'm not gonna have a guess at a percentage but most of what is in Ubuntu was developed by people in other distros. Canonical and the ubuntu community simply build and on and add to what is already out there. Without the other distros Ubuntu simply wouldn't exist in it's current form. By other distros I dont just mean debian, I mean every distro that has been used to develop a program, resource of driver that people use in Ubuntu. Linux is an all-for-one network of distros and each distro depends on the work of other people. It's nice to be at the top but we wouldn't be there if it wasn't for everyone else and we should never get big headed about being a top distro. If anything we should help the little guys because they represent the idea of Linux and open source just like we do.

[riven0]

Well, Ubuntu is on the rise again, as usual. openSUSE was giving Ubuntu a run for its money earlier, but now its on the decline... hehe :)

In either case, I don't see anything to worry about in terms of popularity. The thing is, Ubuntu is supported by a community that is widely diverse and ethusiastic. So Ubuntu gets a lot of free promotion all over the internet. Just look at the Linux/Unix section on Digg. 5 out of every 10 articles is Ubuntu geared.

As long as Ubuntu keeps on improving with every release, world domination is only a matter of time. :mrgreen:

[Johnsie]

We dont need to compete with Suse, it's microsoft that we need to compete against. All Linux should and do work together on that.

[hardyn]

It doesn't matter whos number one, what matters is what works for you, and for me its ubuntu. every install i have have done, i have had almost full hardware recognition out of the box (not card reader, why do they put these things in notebooks anyway?). I have tried a few others, i had to fight with wireless with suse, and sounds with fedora core. If you have some time, i would really recommend that everybody try another distro, you may like what another one has to offer, you may be right back to ubuntu; who cares, find what works for you.

[macogw]

Feisty's supposed to have a "click here to install restricted formats" meta-package in the Add/Remove thing, so half of ubuntuguide will now be completely trivial.

[macogw]

Already done for AmaroK. I'm hoping that's a precedent that will be followed for other programs as well.

Totem tells you if a DVD is encrypted and you lack libdvdcss

Now if only it would stop freezing in the middle of the good scenes and popping up a message saying that it can't be read, could be encrypted, and you need libdvdcss which you obviously have if you've watched this far into a movie. Removal and reinsertion of the disc sometimes fix this. Sometimes the disc won't eject because the DVD drive is being batty, and you need to restart, only to find that your speakers were not detected at boot. Or maybe that's just me. Wait, I know a Gentoo user whose speakers are randomly not there too.

[Polygon]

well that sucks for ubuntu guide, lol

Ubuntu is famous for a lot of things:

having good (and getting better) hardware detection out of the box
now, automatically (or having a choice, whatever they end up putting in) of binary video drivers
now, a easy installation of restricted formats
having a great community
being based on debian
being user friendly

and more

and once again for the record, distrowatch is based on how many ppl click the link. Not how many people are actually using the distro.

[rabid9797]

if linux distros were competing to be on the #1 spot we would of hit another windows like distro by now

[AmpLiF1eR]

I am a little confused...how would you install from source on some of those distros in which "the terminal isn't needed"???

By using script that take care of the console commands, like shortcuts for popular things like flash and java, google earth etc.

you just click "install google earth" for example and Ubuntu takes care of the rest.
Especially for java and flash etc. it would be firendly for users coming from windows.

------------------------

By the way, I agree with a lot of answers on my post here on this subject, but Ubuntu is called "Linux for human beings" so ok... nr.1 is not that important but I just mean that it could be much easier then Ubuntu is now (when I look to other distros)

Beryl for example... some distro have an acceleration manager, it detects if your card supports 3d and give you a choice to start Beryl in XGL or AIGLX mode (even in live mode)
It's not the eyecandy that's important, but the functions really are, like having all open windows next to eachother (expose) etc.

So my point was that Ubuntu is not as user friendly anymore as it was once.
If some distro is doing things automatically then people shout "you can do this on Ubuntu too, you just have to follow this guide and that guide" , true... but a lot more work , making it not fit the text "for human beings' anymore.

just my 2 cents,
Amp
(sorry for my english, but my english is probably better then your dutch, hehe)

[rai4shu2]

Just my 2 cents: some of us human beings are developers and would like to make changes to how these things work. Not being able to do that is very inhumane.

[mykalreborn]

So my point was that Ubuntu is not as user friendly anymore as it was once.
If some distro is doing things automatically then people shout "you can do this on Ubuntu too, you just have to follow this guide and that guide" , true... but a lot more work , making it not fit the text "for human beings' anymore.


and yet again i say to you to wait for fesity fawn ;)
and like rai4shu2 said, a lot of ubuntu users like to be able to make a lot of changes. that's why ubuntu is so great, because it allows the beginner user to work in ubuntu and at the same time it allows the linux-techy to change a whole lot of stuff.

[graabein]

I want the terminal and I don't care what position Ubuntu is, I think it's a good distro!

[aysiu]

So my point was that Ubuntu is not as user friendly anymore as it was once.
If some distro is doing things automatically then people shout "you can do this on Ubuntu too, you just have to follow this guide and that guide" , true... but a lot more work , making it not fit the text "for human beings' anymore. And my point is that it's just as user-friendly as it was before, and there were already distros that did things automatically even before Ubuntu came out. Despite their existence, Ubuntu still rose to #1 on DistroWatch through hype, through a vibrant community, through free disks shipped worldwide, and through a solid release cycle and good hardware detection. Mostly hype, of course, but there were other reasons.

I actually get kind of annoyed when people recommend Ubuntu to absolute newcomers. I don't think it's a very new-user-friendly distro, what with not coming with all sorts of codecs and proprietary drivers. I usually recommend Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Blag, or Linspire. And now there's Linux Mint, too.

Please keep in mind that Mepis has been around since May, 2003; Ubuntu's been around since only October 2004. Mepis has had automounting of partitions with the correct permissions totally point-and-click from the start. Ubuntu still doesn't have that. Mepis has had MP3 playback, Flash, Java, and Nvidia drivers already installed. Ubuntu still doesn't (and doesn't want to, for the first three). Mepis has a graphical way to restore Grub to the MBR. Ubuntu still doesn't.

"Easier" distros have been around this whole time. They are not a new thing. SuSE's X configuration is fully point-and-click and doesn't require you to drop to the command-line and
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg The point is that this things already exist and already existed before Ubuntu even came into being. They are not some kind of new threat to Ubuntu's "#1 position."

And, as I tried to point out to you before, Ubuntu's "#1 position" is based on interest on a particular website, not use. DistroWatch is not a scientific poll of who is using what OS.

[devnet]

Mepis and Linspire and Blag have all had multimedia support out of the box for years. PCLinuxOS is a relative newcomer, but it's nowhere near Ubuntu on DistroWatch's unscientific rankings.

There is two problems with this statement. First, Blag does not have multimedia support out of the box and hasn't been around for any longer than MEPIS or PCLinuxOS have. All three (pclos, mepis, blag) came out in 2003...and of course, rankings don't mean squat because MEPIS is definitely better than OpenSuse for desktop computing.

[aysiu]

Actually, Blag does have multimedia support out of the box. Take a look at their package list:
http://wiki.blagblagblag.org/60000_Packages

I didn't say Blag was around longer than Mepis, but thanks for the correction on PCLinuxOS--I didn't realize that had also been around since 2003.

And I also never said rankings meant squat. Please notice my use of the word unscientific in the post you quoted.

[angkor]

By using script that take care of the console commands, like shortcuts for popular things like flash and java, google earth etc.

you just click "install google earth" for example and Ubuntu takes care of the rest.
Especially for java and flash etc. it would be firendly for users coming from windows.

Java and flash are both installable through the repositories. No need for obscure scripts. I agree most popular apps should be installable through the GUI, but I think most already are.


I just mean that it could be much easier then Ubuntu is now (when I look to other distros)

Probably true, so get busy and help out. Ubuntu is not something that's finished and it will get better. It's not the best distro in every single way so Ubuntu needs to learn and adopt.


Beryl for example... some distro have an acceleration manager, it detects if your card supports 3d and give you a choice to start Beryl in XGL or AIGLX mode (even in live mode)

Beryl is fun and all (I run it default on my computer) but that software is SO alpha a serious desktop OS shouldn't default to beryl / compiz for the first couple of years. It's nice to play with, but the Ubuntu devs probably have more urgent problems to tackle.



So my point was that Ubuntu is not as user friendly anymore as it was once.

On the contrary, it has become easier. It hasn't got any more difficult, it has become easier to run Ubuntu for both newbies and experienced users since Hoary (2005).


If some distro is doing things automatically then people shout "you can do this on Ubuntu too, you just have to follow this guide and that guide" , true... but a lot more work , making it not fit the text "for human beings' anymore.

True for some things, not true for others. Every major distro has strong and weak points.


my english is probably better then your dutch, hehe

Don't count on it. ;)

[kevinatkins]

I'm not so worried about 'chart' ratings. I use Ubuntu because I like it. Having just spent a few days with openSuSE 10.2, which itself is very good, I'm glad to back with Ubuntu. For me, the excellent package management, up-to-date software, easy install / update and tight focus on productivity on the desktop are the main reasons to stick with this distro.

[mykalreborn]

For me, the excellent package management, up-to-date software, easy install / update and tight focus on productivity on the desktop are the main reasons to stick with this distro.

ubuntu is the greatest, but it doesn't actually feature up-to-date software. for example firefox 2 is yet to be featured in dapper's repository list. ;)

[Polygon]

ubuntu is the greatest, but it doesn't actually feature up-to-date software. for example firefox 2 is yet to be featured in dapper's repository list. ;)

thats cause there is a policy for ubuntu, that they will provide bug fixes for existing software, but not actually new versions. Example, dapper started out with like firefox 1.5... and over time as the 1.5.0.0 - 1.5.0.8 patches came out, dapper included them. But since firefox 2 is an entirely new version, they arent going to include it in the repo's. (they might back port it though)

and edgy has firefox 2 preinstalled... so yeah =P

[mykalreborn]

thats cause there is a policy for ubuntu, that they will provide bug fixes for existing software, but not actually new versions. Example, dapper started out with like firefox 1.5... and over time as the 1.5.0.0 - 1.5.0.8 patches came out, dapper included them. But since firefox 2 is an entirely new version, they arent going to include it in the repo's. (they might back port it though)

but isn't firefox 2 a stable browser? it's a pitty because it's so much better than 1.5... but i guess it's not up to me. :D

[Hex_Mandos]

FF2 is stable. That's the reason it's on Edgy. Backporting it to Dapper is another thing entirely - if you're desperately wanting FF2, you can always get it directly from Mozilla (like I did with Seamonkey) or upgrade to Edgy.

[mykalreborn]

FF2 is stable. That's the reason it's on Edgy. Backporting it to Dapper is another thing entirely - if you're desperately wanting FF2, you can always get it directly from Mozilla (like I did with Seamonkey) or upgrade to Edgy.

oh, it's not that. i have swiftox 2 :D. it's just that some newbies might like to have firefox 2 but they don't really know how to install it. but i guess they shoul just use edgy instead. ;)