Why are relationships so difficult?

[megamania]

I'm just willing to read your thoughts here.

I find that most of the wars (from little wars in couples/families to world wars) start from misunderstandings that grow because neither of the "fighters" accepts to stand back and TALK or LISTEN. Simply put, lack of communication.

We have our own ideas and often we don't really question them. After an argument, when silence falls, we usually expect the other part to make the first move. But if WE decide to make the first move, we expect to have a "credit" just because of that. That often leads to further anger and aggressiveness against our counterpart.

Sitting down to exchange thoughts and ideas would be very easy in theory, yet it is so difficult in real life. In other words, we don't practice what we preach.

As I said, I would like to have your opinions and experiences on this. If you don't mind, please remember to state your age/gender and nationality - I think that's important in this kind of topics.

[fuscia]

trouble usually starts when there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

[megamania]

trouble usually starts when there are too many cooks in the kitchen.
can you please elaborate a bit more?

[Johnsie]

The more people the more conflicting agendas ;-)

[fuscia]

people are essentially different, yet most make the mistake of thinking we're all basically the same. if one assumes the latter, it is hard to see why someone else would passionately choose a very differing point of view. trouble begins when both parties think a solution lies in having to agree on a position rather than just finding a condition that allows for both parties to continue on their way. more parties makes finding one position even less likely.

[Bezmotivnik]

Because all relationships are struggles for power.

[xopher]

Relationships are in essence about compromises. What will you sacrifice so you can be with the woman you love? And Vice versa of course.

This has to be mutual though, if one gives more than the other in the relationship, things are bound to go bad. Balance. Status Quo.

Talking through things, as already stated here, is also a key factor in a sustainable relationship. If we can't talk about everything with the person(s) we love, then who can we talk to?

[megamania]

This has to be mutual though, if one gives more than the other in the relationship, things are bound to go bad. Balance. Status Quo.

Talking through things, as already stated here, is also a key factor in a sustainable relationship. If we can't talk about everything with the person(s) we love, then who can we talk to?
Right of course, but... in the end, most of the times none of the parties involved says "she/he gave more in the relationship but [whatever]".

We are convinced that we have to be understood, and we are convinced that we try to understand the other part. However, that's obviously not true if so many couples divorce, so many people fight, so many states have wars.

So back to the question: why is it so difficult? are we genetically designed to hate eachother as a form of self-defense (i.e., before I question myself, I strive to survive)?

[skinny]

"We'll have to agree to disagree"

a phrase I like to use regularly when arguments/debates start to loop.

[ThrobbingBrain66]

Everyone is pre-disposed to their ideas and values by how, where and by whom they were raised. Then, when you encounter another with conflicting/differing ideas and values, it's only natural to defend what you know to be true. The biggest obstacle for anyone to overcome is to realize that their ideas and values aren't necessarily correct.

Then you have to take into account extremists that absolutely refuse to believe anything other than what they've been taught or think they know. In many instances this isn't their fault directly because they've been sheltered from any differing line of thought.

In the end, it comes down to "taking the blinders off" and making sure you keep your mind open to any and all possibilities. This is the responsibility of everyone. I can't think of a single situation where being fully aware of all the facts, reasoning and beliefs is dangerous. Make up your own mind and only form opinions after you've been fully informed.

[megamania]

trouble begins when both parties think a solution lies in having to agree on a position rather than just finding a condition that allows for both parties to continue on their way.

but, fuscia, doesn't "finding a condition that allows for both parties to continue on their way" mean "having to agree" anyway? It's probably having to agree on something else, but still... ](*,)

[xyz]

This is a never-ending story and I surely won't pretend I have answers.
Not pretending to have answers is the 1st step to human understanding.

Another thing that seems to correspond to humans is that we need difficulty.

[matthew]

"Why are relationships so difficult?"

Relationships require us to sacrifice our wants to benefit someone else. When both people do that you suddenly discover a mutually-beneficial partnership is in place that is both wonderful and fun. When either party (or both) choose to pursue or demand their wants be the priority* in the relationship things break down.

*as a habit, not on the the occasional "this is vitally important to me" issue

[mykalreborn]

there are quite a few factors envolved, at least in my opinion.
usually, when it comes to war it's not a matter of human misunderstanding. it's all about how some people up there , the "all seeing eye" (;)) want things to happen. it's all about the problem-reaction-solution routine. ;)
but when it comes to misunderstanding between two normal people, it's about how open are their minds to try to accept other opinions. arguments are based on this, the unacceptance of the other's ideas. if we would just try to see another point we would gain so very much. and if we tried not to think of ourselves as the center of our universe, but as just another tiny bit in this huge space, we would gain everything, and of course good relationships.
if we tried to detach our selves from this illusion that is our personality and the world around us, we would all be living in heaven. and there will never be such a question, "why are relationships difficult?".
another thing is honesty and trust. a lot of people lie when they talk to someone; they even lie to their boy/girlfriend and when things between them start getting worse, they don't seem to understand where they did a mistake. their mistake was not opening totally to that person because of fear of trusting him, and thus lying him until the bond between the two quickly fades away living only shalowness....

i sure love to talk about this things. :D

[henriquemaia]

Because we are all incarcerated within the prison of our own vision, always seeing it as ultimately true. We are the centre of our universe, seeing things from that point of view. This leads to conflits when we are confronted with another view apart from our own (from another person who is also the centre of its own universe).

[matthew]

Because we are all incarcerated within the prison of our own vision
I love that phrase...it is beautifully poetic.

[fuscia]

but, fuscia, doesn't "finding a condition that allows for both parties to continue on their way" mean "having to agree" anyway? It's probably having to agree on something else, but still... ](*,)

i'm talking about fundamental views. one can reluctantly agree to an arrangement that doesn't violate one's essential principles, if that arrangement allows for less molested practice of those principles.

[Patrick-Ruff]

there are just so many issues to express here it seems almost impossible to map out every remote issue that causes a relationship struggle.

but you do know, the point of a relationship is to go through life and deal with **** with someone, even if that **** is the relationship . . . lol. there are just many things that can muck it up, struggles for power (mentioned above), insecurities, lack of chemistry(i.e. things in common), and just really anything that you can think of lol

[Dragonbite]

I don't know if it was Dr. Phil or somebody else but thair statement is very true.

"In any conflict there are 3 sides; his, hers and the truth and never are any the same."

Once you realize that you are wrong (and so are they) then everything starts to become clearer, but the key is that initial admission (to yourself only, not need giving somebody else the idea that they are right! [-( ).

After that, realize that their point of view is different than yours and it's wrong, but why? What is their point of view.

You can also think of it as "Know Thine Enemy". When you know them, you conquer them.

Once you understand where they are coming from and why they think you are wrong and they are right it is usually very easy to unravel the argument and come to an agreement. :-#

If, after being faced with the truth, they refuse to budge from their point of view then leave 'em. If after they are calmed down and the emotional adrenaline is gone and they still don't budge ](*,) it is either stubborness or blind faith and either way you can walk away saying you "tried" and that it wasn't your fault it failed.

[Banished]

I'm 25 and have been married 6 years, and my husband and I are still as much in love as we were when we first met but even more so. We don't fight much at all, and if we do it is usually brief and forgettable.

What makes our marriage work is we never take each other foregranted, if he does something little like take out the garbage or helps me with dishes, I tell him how much I appreciate it (even though I want him to help out even more). We also work together, so we're together all the time, but I don't assume he knows how I feel, I regularly tell him all the things about him that make me think he is so wonderful...e.g. his intelligence, kindness, humility, etc. (sorry if I'm making anyone nauseous). So I never lose the feeling I got when we first met. It's just something I do to be funny, but he knows I mean it.

We're not perfect as a couple... we have a lot in common but also a lot of differences. The biggest issue in our relationships is he very social and I am not. We've often discussed why we are the way we are, and have come to a good understanding of what the other person's needs and limits are....agreeing to disagree works only if you understand where the other person is coming from.
Couples sometimes get too comfortable with each other and think it's ok to insult and criticize each other, or just tune them out...this is never ok.

You have to let the other person know that their opinions are valuable to you and that they are appreciated...I good sense of humor also helps ;)

[Xzallion]

Basically your asking why can't we achieve world without violence/argumnets and all "just get along" correct?

This causes a paradox. Your asking for what you view as a perfect world, a utopia. But every single person has a different view of a utopia. Some think the world would be perfect if we are all friends, some think we should all have the same sexual orientation. Others believe their religion is right and yours is wrong. In short we all have preferences that we think are better, and there are very few that will admit that in all of these we are biased and will refuse to change.

Even if we seperated people out to different placed to have their own individual utopia's, some groups would immediatly label them either savages or "evil" and proceed to attack and take over them to educate them or "purge the evil".

In a world so big as this, there are just some things we all will never agree on. It's a sad fact of life. :(

[anaconda]

The problem is that each person has 2 sides: (women more so than men)
the logical side (which doesnt really know what the emotional side really needs)
and the emotional side (which knows if things are wrong or right, but not the reasons why)

The problem with women is that they tell men the logical reasons and the logical things they THING they want and need, but in reality all they want is the emotional side to be fullfilled. But even most woman dont know what is needed to make the emotional side happy so they think that meeting the demands of the logical side would make them happy, and when they get what they "want" they are still not satisfied only more frustrated (because it wasn't what the emotional side needed)

And the solution is to know what the emotional side wants and fullfill that sides needs even if it is the opposite of what she "wants" you to do.. Easier than it sounds, because they all want the same things....

[megamania]

Basically your asking why can't we achieve world without violence/argumnets and all "just get along" correct?

Well, not really. I'm not singing "Imagine" and wondering how beautiful it would be if we lived in love&peace. :)

What I'm thinking is, when we see wars and fightings we are generally tempted to think that they come from "big", complex reasons that we can't understand. Some tend to reduce the whole thing to "good against evil". But you see, most of us are ready to fight for a traffic problem (i.e. somebody reacting slowly to a red light becoming green) or other things as little important as that.

So I'm wondering if there's something inside us which we can't help but take out as soon as we have an opportunity to do so, or if there are other reasons for the anger and lack of patience that appear to be so widespread.

I visited many of the south-east Asia countries, and what I saw is that in general people more ready to fight and argue are the ones who have more (including myself).

[stalker145]

trouble begins when both parties think a solution lies in having to agree on a position rather than just finding a condition that allows for both parties to continue on their way.

Absolutely correct. Conflict stems, in my mind anyway, from people not being able or willing to come to a compromise. I believe, fuscia, that was your point? This is one of the hardest things for me, anyway. I want to be right, doggone it. Reaching a compromise means that somewhere in there I might be wrong. Twisted, yes, but it's my mentality. We all have to come to the conclusion that, in relationships, there is usually no right or wrong, but something in the middle that will allow us to get along with our fellow man.


but, fuscia, doesn't "finding a condition that allows for both parties to continue on their way" mean "having to agree" anyway? It's probably having to agree on something else, but still... ](*,)

In its basest form, yes coming to a compromise means having to agree on something. However, compromising also means that each party has to give something up. So, not only are they right, but they're wrong as well.

[megamania]

I've read some interesting considerations so far.

What I'd like to know is if you agree with my assumption (relationships are difficult), if you find yourself often having a hard time because of difficulties in communications, and if this happens more with people you have a close relationship with.

I mean, you may easily fight with people you don't really know, but on the other hand have a calm and happy relationship with your close relatives/friends, or be at ease with more distant people and have trouble with close friendships -- I hope I made myself clear...

[Dragonbite]

I've read some interesting considerations so far.

What I'd like to know is if you agree with my assumption (relationships are difficult), if you find yourself often having a hard time because of difficulties in communications, and if this happens more with people you have a close relationship with.

I mean, you may easily fight with people you don't really know, but on the other hand have a calm and happy relationship with your close relatives/friends, or be at ease with more distant people and have trouble with close friendships -- I hope I made myself clear...You are more likely you fight with people you have a relationship with because they are "safe", as in you can predict their reaction, how far you can take it, etc. Your guard is down when you are with these people so psychologically it is easier to blow up at your friends/spouce than a stranger.

[null0]

i guess mega is right, lack of communication is the most important factor. motivated most of the times by the most popular drug in the world:

Pride

[mykalreborn]

I've read some interesting considerations so far.

What I'd like to know is if you agree with my assumption (relationships are difficult), if you find yourself often having a hard time because of difficulties in communications, and if this happens more with people you have a close relationship with.

I mean, you may easily fight with people you don't really know, but on the other hand have a calm and happy relationship with your close relatives/friends, or be at ease with more distant people and have trouble with close friendships -- I hope I made myself clear...

i for one have excellent relationships with everyone. but i'm not just being shallow with these people or "popular" or anything like that. a few months ago it was something else. i've just realised that there is something wonderfull in absoulutely ever human being, and i try to concentrate on that when i talk to someone. how can i be upset on anyone when i only consider his good side.
that doesn't mean i don't see his/her flaws. i take not of them and then i try to very subtile correct them.

[megamania]

i guess mega is right, lack of communication is the most important factor. motivated most of the times by the most popular drug in the world:

Pride

I completely agree. Pride is nasty, because it makes us assume that we are better "by default".


i for one have excellent relationships with everyone. but i'm not just being shallow with these people or "popular" or anything like that. a few months ago it was something else. i've just realised that there is something wonderfull in absoulutely ever human being, and i try to concentrate on that when i talk to someone. how can i be upset on anyone when i only consider his good side.
that doesn't mean i don't see his/her flaws. i take not of them and then i try to very subtile correct them.
That's a good approach, as long as you are really able to do that. If you're pushing yourself too much in order to accept what usually drives you crazy, how long do you think that can last?

[greg.hagen]

Relationships are hard because everyone has their own opinion on why relationships are hard.

[mykalreborn]

That's a good approach, as long as you are really able to do that. If you're pushing yourself too much in order to accept what usually drives you crazy, how long do you think that can last?
Reply With Quote

i see your point. i never pushed myself to much. a few months ago i wasn't all that acceptant to everyone, but slowly and sure i started to be. and now it's gotten to the point where sometimes i can't imagine how it's like to not like somebody.
and i'm sure this will last forever from here on. :D

[megamania]

i see your point. i never pushed myself to much. a few months ago i wasn't all that acceptant to everyone, but slowly and sure i started to be. and now it's gotten to the point where sometimes i can't imagine how it's like to not like somebody.
and i'm sure this will last forever from here on. :DI don't want to appear cheesy, but I'm pretty sure there's good in everyone. However, this takes us back to my previous consideration (not practicing what we preach).

Sounds to me like you put a big effort in your change of attitude, and that's likely to happen when you realize that you reached exactly the opposite of what your goal was - at least that's what happens with me.

[mykalreborn]

I don't want to appear cheesy, but I'm pretty sure there's good in everyone

of course there's good in everyone. and usually being afraid of sounding cheesy is what makes relationships difficult ;)


Sounds to me like you put a big effort in your change of attitude, and that's likely to happen when you realize that you reached exactly the opposite of what your goal was - at least that's what happens with me.

what do you mean, i reached exactly the opposite of what my goal is?

[null0]

people (me too) let themselves go too much. We can't practice what we preach cause we think before we preach, and rarely think before we act.

[kd7swh]

Because all relationships are struggles for power.

or at least control

[megamania]

what do you mean, i reached exactly the opposite of what my goal is?
sorry for replying so late. What I meant is that sometimes I think my behaviour would take me to get some results, and I suddenly realize that people's opinions on my behaviour are exactly the opposite of what I expected.

That usually pushes me to globally re-think my mental organization, but it's a tough job.

[mykalreborn]

sorry for replying so late. What I meant is that sometimes I think my behaviour would take me to get some results, and I suddenly realize that people's opinions on my behaviour are exactly the opposite of what I expected.

That usually pushes me to globally re-think my mental organization, but it's a tough job.

yeah. but maybe people are just wrong. and your behaviour is getting you to more results, but it's a little bit to much for them to see. ;) usualy it's not a good thing to live by other people's opinions.
it's true though, that sometimes you just can't see that you've sinked a little lower than you expected, or that you aren't really going on the way you wanted to in the beginning. you see it only after you've reached the bottom. but if you struggle a little to get up again it will be so easy :D

[Aetherius]

Ubuntu 'just works', why can't everything else?

:lolflag:

Aeth

[mykalreborn]

Ubuntu 'just works', why can't everything else?

:lolflag:

Aeth

hahahaha
hilarous dude!

[C-A]

Look for a secondary "payoff". Most behaviors in relationships have direct or indirect goals that supersede "getting along".

[megamania]

Ubuntu 'just works', why can't everything else?
Aeth
Kernel panics are everywhere. ;-)

[xhaan]

Relationships are difficult because they suck.

[megamania]

Relationships are difficult because they suck.
?

It'd be interesting to hear more about that.

[mykalreborn]

Relationships are difficult because they suck.

they inly suck if you let them suck. it's all up to you. all you have to do is take down a few problems you might have and just be happy and everything will not-suck ;)

[xhaan]

they inly suck if you let them suck. it's all up to you. all you have to do is take down a few problems you might have and just be happy and everything will not-suck ;)

True, I just felt like stirring the pot though. :D

[mykalreborn]

True, I just felt like stirring the pot though

lol
i guess women singing pi are pretty hot, but not as hot as i expected :p

[Brunellus]

today's xkcd might have been MADE for this thread:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/letting_go.png

[xhaan]

lol
i guess women singing pi are pretty hot, but not as hot as i expected :p

Um, yeah they are. Does that link still work by the way? I just checked it and the song didn't play... but I dunno if it's the site or Edgy's fault.
It must be Edgy... just went there in Dapper and it worked fine.