I come seeking laptop opinions!

[zami]

I am seeking opinions on laptops. I'm curious about a few specific points from users experiences.

1) Is it typically (is that a dangerous word or what?) any different to install Ubuntu onto a laptop then onto a big box?

2) Have a notebook manufacturer you love?

3) Have a notebook manufacturer you hate?? (possibly more important then the love!)

4) Have any experience with the tablet notebooks, particularly using linux with them? Oh, how I'd love to be able to draw sans-mouse...

5) Anyone have experience with the panasonic "toughbooks" ? If they are thick with padding, do they also overheat quickly? (I'm a clutz and have two clutzy kits - I'm seriously considering the extra cost for the tough book!)

6) Does anyone even make the laptop with the little... bit off pencil eraser in the center of the keyboard for the "mouse" ? I'm horrfied of how my thumbs might stray and mangle my typing with the little 'mouse pad' below most laptop keyboards.

Seriously, ANY opinions from anyone, on laptops, would be much appreciated! My husband had a Sager about a decade ago... and I haven't seen a laptop (outside of a store display) since!

-zami

[meng]

1. Recognition of all hardware can be a little trickier, particularly since you don't really have the option of fully customizing a laptop.
2. I don't LOVE them, in fact their customer support is rubbish, but my 4-year Dell is still going strong. System76 is doing good work I believe.
3. Any distributor that won't give refunds for unused Windows! Deserving of some hate!
4. Dunno
5. Dunno
6. Look here: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052

[riven0]

:lol: The "pencil eraser" your talking about is the trackpoint. Yeah, I've got one of those on my Thinkpad, and basically, once you try it, you'll never go back to the regular touchpad. Those things rock!

Of course, I'm partial to IBM/Lenovo, and I'm not planning on buying anything else soon. The only problem I had with this lappy was getting the sleep function work properly. I'm successfull in maybe 1 out of every 10 tries. Everything else is pretty much good. And their built to last. :)

[zami]

A trackpoint! Riven0, thanks for the term! I really didn't want to go shopping and ask "do you have any laptops with the spit-out piece of pencil eraser?" I think the conversation would go downhill and be unhelpful from that point on. Has your trackpoint ever had any physical problems? Do they tear or pop-off? Are they replaceable?

Meng, thanks for the feedback on your CS experience with Dell. I guess I'm... a bit of a pessimist... I'm rather expecting that customer service from any of the larger manufacturers is going to be crap. Good to know your's has been a solid machine though... Dell does have good deals and I can't help but be enticed by the "skins" you can slap onto those things.

A "skin" is SUCH a stupid point to even factor in to picking a laptop... but I'm not too proud to admit I want a machine that is tough AND pretty.

-zami

[Dragonbite]

Some HPs come with a button right above the trackpad you can hit to turn off the trackpad so when typing your cursor doesn't go flying all over the place!

I've heard good things about Lenovo(IBM) Thinkpads between some options:


ThinkVantage™ Active Protection SystemThe Active Protection System features an integrated motion sensor that continuously monitors your notebook, providing up to four times greater impact protection than systems without this feature. Using technology similar to that which controls automobile airbags, the system can detect sudden changes in motion and temporarily stop the hard drive to help protect data from some crashes which may occur in everyday notebook accidents. It also can automatically adjust sensitivity levels when repetitive motion is detected.

ThinkPad HDD Shock AbsorberThe ThinkPad HDD Shock Absorber helps protect your hard drive and prevent hard drive failure due to operational shock and other common types of shock events. Like an automobile bumper, it absorbs some shocks to help prevent damage — whether the system is turned on or off — and provides up to 30% more protection than the system case alone38.

ThinkPad® Roll CageThe ThinkPad® Roll Cage protects critical system components in case of accidents or jolts. The magnesium alloy frame that surrounds ThinkPad parts absorbs shock on drop – reducing failures and improving durability and reliability.

ThinkPad® Shock-Mounted Hard DriveThe ThinkPad® Shock-Mounted Hard Drive protects hard drives from sudden impact. The hard drive is mounted in rubber rails to enhance durability and reduces shock to the hard drive from any direction.
Plus my co-worker thinks there is a tray under the keyboard that redirects moisture out a hole in the case while bypassing the electronic hardware, but I have yet to confirm this (and it's actually our company's laptop so I'm not about to take my coffee and dump it on his keyboard to test it out, though it is tempting at time :twisted: !)

I've been keeping an eye on Retrobox (http://www.retrobox.com/rbwww/home/search_menu.asp)who removes the OS and sells hardware from companies who have upgraded their systems. They have some pretty good ones, though not the latest-and-greatest, but for a discount.

I'd be curious what you decide on and how it works out. I was thinking of one for my wife who can be accident-prone at times and then there are the three little hackers...

[zami]

7) "Notebook" or "Laptop" ??

I see "notebooks" for sale everywhere! Is it just an age thing that I keep calling them "laptops"??

-zami

[meng]

:lol: The "pencil eraser" your talking about is the trackpoint. Yeah, I've got one of those on my Thinkpad, and basically, once you try it, you'll never go back to the regular touchpad. Those things rock!
I beg to differ. I'm still a touchpad guy myself. Perhaps I lack the dexterity that the trackpoint requires, I'm always overshooting the mark when I use those things.

I see "notebooks" for sale everywhere! Is it just an age thing that I keep calling them "laptops"??
I think notebook is the better term. Not only is placing the computer in your lap not ergonomically sound, but apparently you can do some serious thermal damage to your genitals (well, men can anyway)!

[foofy]

Sony Vaio PCG-GRT816S

Ubuntu works right out of the box, no problems here.

Get a Netgear RangeMax WPN511 wifi card and life is good. :cool:

[MrDigital1]

IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad, and no it's not hard to install Ubuntu on them. I have installed it on 3 different models of Thinkpads and no problems at all.

The Thinkpads are rock solid machines IMHO.

[mips]

Thinkpad.

[Kernel Panic]

I have a Toshiba Satellie A105-S4344. It works very well. The only things I have yet to get working are the modem (Like I need a modem with wifi???) the the Fn keyboard shorcuts.

The biggest issue I have had with it was when I first installed Ubuntu last week I used the amd86 iso. I was unable to exit, suspend, or hibernate an X session without getting a kernel panic. I have confirmed that this happens on 2 other 64bit distros as well, so I installed the 32bit Ubuntu iso and all is good.

My advice is to burn the iso you want to install before you go shopping. Then once you get into the store you can use the live seesion to boot each system you are thinking of buying. Any major issues should show up at that point. I wish I had done this as it would have saved me 4 days of troubleshooting.


Hope that helps,


KP

[frrobert]

I would stay away from Toshiba laptops. My A70 runs Ubuntu without any issues but....
Toshiba has had some motherboard issues on the A70 and A75 along with the some of the M series. My motherboard is been replaced 3 times since August of 2004. There is even a class action lawsuit about the problem. I was a big Toshiba fan for years but this last laptop has soured me.

I have used laptops with the trackpoints and find they don't last. I found touch pads more durable.

Which ever laptop you get get the extended "no matter what happens" warranty, also called accident coverage. Every laptop I've ever had something wear out and it was nice having the no questions asked warranty.

[riven0]

A trackpoint! Riven0, thanks for the term! I really didn't want to go shopping and ask "do you have any laptops with the spit-out piece of pencil eraser?" I think the conversation would go downhill and be unhelpful from that point on. Has your trackpoint ever had any physical problems? Do they tear or pop-off? Are they replaceable?
-zami

I've never had any physical problems with the trackpoint, but they are replaceable, so you can pop them off. Lenovo sent me three extra ones, just in case. :D But you have to be really pulling at them to take them off. They won't just fall out, even if you shake the laptop upside down.

My idea: go for the Thinkpad. ;) They may not be the best looking laptops on the market, but they run cool, the build quality is top-notch, the keyboard rocks, the screen look good... everything about it just wonderful... I don't ever see myself buying from another company. Well, unless System 76 used them instead of Acer or Asus... whatever it is they use... I would buy a System 76 then... ah, well...:(

[seijuro]

I've been running Ubuntu on my Dell Inspiron 8200 since hoary everything works great. I actually bought a graphics tablet quite a while before my laptop and it also works perfectly with Ubuntu just some minor tweaks in the xorg.conf and I can do some stuff I couldn't in windows such as assign a different tool to each part of the stylus in Gimp.

[Stew2]

Another vote for the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads from me :). I have a vintage 600X that still works beautifully, and at work we have tons of Lenovo Thinkpads and I have never really heard of anyone having problems with them, other than with Windows maybe :). Good luck on your hunt and let us know what you get.

Regards,
Stew2

[insane_alien]

at first i hated the trackpoint. i found it unusable and awkward. now i prefer it over the usb mouse i bought. i've wore through 2 of the wee rubbery red thingies that go on it.

i wonder where you get more?

[mips]

at first i hated the trackpoint. i found it unusable and awkward. now i prefer it over the usb mouse i bought. i've wore through 2 of the wee rubbery red thingies that go on it.

i wonder where you get more?

Call Lenovo 08701 667777 or http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/13112

[Stew2]

at first i hated the trackpoint. i found it unusable and awkward. now i prefer it over the usb mouse i bought. i've wore through 2 of the wee rubbery red thingies that go on it.

i wonder where you get more?

Don't buy them on ebay thats for sure! I bought a set of three from a reputable seller and to say that they were cheap knockoffs was an understatement! I ended up going back to the old worn one... the replacements were too slippery. Definitely not the same feel as the original. I would take Mips advice and get them from IBM/Lenovo, that way you know that they are genuine original equipment quality. Hope this helps! :D

Regards,
Stew2

[zami]

In the vein of "better late then never", here is my review on the machine I purchased.

First off, I WANTED an IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad. They seem highly recommended here, have both the touch-point AND the touch-pad, and are rumored to be sturdy. (Which is important since I've got little kids often "helping" me.)

But, I'm impatient and was getting ready to move, and would have had to wait about a month before even ordering one online, then wait for shipping... So I went shopping locally. And found squat.

What I ended up buying is a used
Dell Inspiron 9300

So far, so good! I'm pretty happy with my machine.

Specs
-----
Processor : Intel Pentium M, 1.60GHZ, 800MHz
Vido Card : GoForce Go 6800/PCI/SSE2
Memory : 1295 MB
Harddrive : I forget the speed and size
1 DVD/CDRW drive
6 USB ports (4 in the back, 2 on the left)
1 PCMI porty ma thingy
1 Sansdisc drive
1 speaker jack
1 headphone jack
1 internal lan card (not sure of the specifics on this)
1 internal modem (hehe, modem)
1 vga adaptor (supposedly this can handle a dual display, but I don't know anything about that)
3 mystery-to-me holes/adapters


The Good
--------
-the touch-pad is far enough from the space bar, that I'm not constantly whacking the touch-pad with my thumb and screwing up my typing. (This was a problem on a few machines I test drove. I know some laptops have a little button to disable the touch pad, but this one didn't so I'm glad it's at least a decent distance from the space bar.)

-GREAT laptop screen. I do have some glare problems (mentioned under The Bad), but otherwise this is a great screen.

The resolution goes as high as 1600x1024. Only a 53Hz refresh rate, but I dont have any flickering or psychedelic patterns being carved into my retina, as I usually do when the refresh rate is so slow. And it doesn't have any problem keeping up with 3d game displays - again no flickering, tracing, etc (at least none due to the refresh rate.)

It's 17" (diagonal corner to corner) widescreen which is nice for movies, though sometimes awkward for web browsing. (But that's easily amended by just un-maximizing and reshaping the browser).

It's got one of the brighter, clearer, displays I've seen on a notebook, with a decent viewing range. I don't have to bobble my head around that much when working with graphics. (I do a lot of webdesign and was expecting I'd have to use my old timey monitor to properly see colors and contrast, but this monitor is much sharper then I was expecting.)

-WiFi ready. Found my new wireless router immediately. I took it with me while moving too, and it found my hotel's network just as easily.

-Bluetooth ready. Supposedly! I haven't been able to try it, but it's got the little Bluetooth symbol right next to the WiFi symbol.

-Decent, stereo sound. Not suited for filling your home with music perhaps, but I've been enjoying the sounds and music in WoW (and Vanguard, which is can BARELY play). And of course it's fine for system sounds.

-Hard button volume controls on the front of the machine, that worked right away in both Windows AND Ubuntu. Yay! (I thought for sure these would work within Windows only. It's nice to be very wrong sometimes!)

-Handles heat well! It's got little fans on the top and bottom, and hasn't overheated during hours of the graphics card running. It gets hot on the bottom, but not nearly hot enough to burn.

-Full sized keyboard, minus number-pad. I tried out a few laptops that had odd tiny keys, some that had all the specialty buttons (print-screen, home, etc) in wierd places, and one ridiculous keyboard that didn't have a TAB key. That's right, no TAB key. For shame. For shaaaaame....

-It's pretty. This is trivial, but this is a lovely silver and white machine with a black and white keyboard, and it literally looks "pretty" sitting on my desk.

The Bad
--------
-No physical Restore or Windows discs. The "restore" options are on a partition of the hard drive. (There is a Windows key sticker on the bottom at least, so I guess you could use other Windows discs with that key. I haven't got such discs though, so I think I'm screwed if I ever lose the hard drive. I'll have to buy yet another copy of Windows.)

-Very Glare Screen. This is the smoothest, glossiest screen I've ever seen even on a notebook, so it has some crazy glare problems in anything but ideal light settings.

-Ho hard reset button. If you have an uber crash, you have to unplug the power, unplug all your peripherals, pop out the battery, then put everything back in... kind of a hassle.

-No hard monitor controls. This is probably common to notebooks, but it's annoying to have to adjust brightness, gamma, etc through software. The Nvidia controls are SO touchy and hard to fine tune.

-The power button. It works just fine, but it feels flimsy and I'm worried it's going to depress and just not pop-back-up one of these times. Thankfully I don't use it very often.

Ubuntu Instalation
------------
Installing Ubuntu on this machine was easy enough, but a little frightening. Dell doesn't give you physical system restore disks, nor Windows disks. Instead, they partition a bit of the hard drive and fill it with their "restore" software, which you can access by hitting CTRL+F11 (or some similar combo, I forget now) from within Windows. Blech,right?

I popped in the Ubuntu 6.10 disk and all went as expected, but partitioning a space for Ubuntu was frightening. I expected to see two partitions. The operating Windows partition, and the "restore discs" partition.

But no, there was a third partition.

And to install Ubuntu, I needed to create the Ubuntu OS partion, and the swap partition.

Windows + mystery1 + mystery2 + Ubuntu + Ubuntu swap = five partitions.
One more partition then Gparted allows. Argh! So I deleted one of the mystery partitions and just had to cross my fingers it wasn't anything vital. It's been about a month, and so far so good! But, yeesh... if your not a gambler, I wouldn't recommend setting up a dual-boot on a Dell! (Unless you have your own copy of Windows, of course!)

Setting up the resolution on this machine was a tiny hassle as well, simply because I had to boot back into Windows to look at the virtual manual to get the available resolutions and refresh rates for the monitor.

Setting up the video drivers and all my software, etc was a breeze.



Summary
-------
Overall : great!
It looks good, it sounds good, it's been very dependable for the month I've had it, and it accepted a the Ubuntu installation with no problems.

If you're shopping for a laptop to install Linux on, and you find a Dell at a good price, I'd highly recommend it.

If it came down to a ThinkPad vs a Dell Notebook, similar prices and specs, I'd vote for the ThinkPad, but I have no complaints with my Dell.

-zami