Should Automatix be included in Ubuntu by default? [Archive]

aysiu

January 2nd, 2007, 10:59 PM

All I can think of is that (apparently) the Ubuntu developers don't recommend Automatix for one reason or another, although I've used it to install some programs with no issues whatsoever.
I used Automatix once just for fun, and it worked perfectly for me, but, you're right--it doesn't seem to be officially espoused.

From the Ubuntu community help page on restricted formats (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats#head-794035043932e6b64a561761ed413e201fdfa8b7):
Installing non-free media format support with Automatix
Automatix (http://www.getautomatix.com/index.html) is a third-party utility for automating the installation of the most commonly requested applications in some Debian-based distributions. While it works well for many users, it is also known to often corrupt systems and leave them in a state where upgrading to a later Ubuntu release is impossible. You have been warned; use at your own risk. Please join #automatix for support with Automatix.

K.Mandla

January 2nd, 2007, 11:04 PM

For my own experiences, I can only say that Automatix worked each time I used it, exactly how I wanted and without any errors.

I did stop using it about a month after I found it, but that was because I wanted to learn more about how those things worked, and I realized I was relying on it too much.

I suppose you can take that for what it's worth; I for one never had a problem with it, but I also don't use it because I no longer feel I need it. To each his own.

BarfBag

January 2nd, 2007, 11:30 PM

I've used Automatix over and over again since the beginning. I haven't had a single problem with it.

bionnaki

January 2nd, 2007, 11:55 PM

ive also encountered this misinformation on IRC where individuals were saying automatix will mess up your installation. I have never had any trouble with automatix. For most applications, I install via terminal but for codecs, I prefer to use automatix.

picpak

January 2nd, 2007, 11:59 PM

This used to be true...over a year ago. On Breezy, using Automatix to upgrade to OpenOffice 2.0 breaks OpenOffice in an upgrade to Dapper. It was also built up from a lot of hacks.

Nowadays though, it's learned a lot from its big brother Easy Ubuntu, and Automatix2 is quite nice.

Johnsie

January 3rd, 2007, 02:47 AM

I got in trouble in #ubuntu for recommending automatix to someone. After that I stood up for automatix because I think it's invaluable and dont want some kid in #Ubuntu telling me what software to recommend. I'm not going to say who it was but that person kept threatening to kick me if I recommended automatix. Since then I have tried to avoid the channel which is sad because apart from that incident #ubuntu has been really useful for me.

aysiu

January 3rd, 2007, 02:50 AM

This poll (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138405) is over a year old and closed, but I think it makes it pretty clear that Automatix--while not perfect--has worked for a lot of people... at least 1500 people.

meng

January 3rd, 2007, 02:56 AM

If you ask us for help and you mention that your were told by someone on #Ubuntu that Automatix caused the problem, your request for help will be ignored.
Perhaps you should ask the folks on Automatix why this is. Seems a slightly extreme position to take!

teet

January 3rd, 2007, 03:08 AM

I use automatix but I don't fully trust it. I always do a fresh install when upgrading (I have a separate home partition so it isn't a big deal really) to the newest version of ubuntu and then run Automatix 1 time to install all the codecs and programs that I want. After that, anything I install is through synaptic/aptitude or the old-fashioned way.

If automatix were to "screw up" for some reason, then I would just simply reinstall ubuntu and do it again. There's not much to lose on a fresh system...

-teet

aysiu

January 3rd, 2007, 03:10 AM

Perhaps you should ask the folks on Automatix why this is. Seems a slightly extreme position to take!
I wouldn't rule out personal politics and past disagreements, prior bugs in Automatix that have since been fixed, or just general skepticism about third-party projects.

arnieboy (Automatix's creator) has been known to not get along with everybody...

meng

January 3rd, 2007, 03:19 AM

I wouldn't rule out personal politics and past disagreements, prior bugs in Automatix that have since been fixed, or just general skepticism about third-party projects.
arnieboy (Automatix's creator) has been known to not get along with everybody...
Yeah I know I'm just teasing.

fuscia

January 3rd, 2007, 03:43 AM

i've never had any real problem with automatix, only minor trouble with bleeder (it's not like i wasn't warned). in fact, automatix has been absolutely awesome. anytime i've needed help, arnie was more than generous and helpful with his time.

bionnaki

January 3rd, 2007, 04:58 AM

I recommend automatix2, personally. works great & gets the job done. cheers to the developers.

Shay Stephens

January 3rd, 2007, 07:31 AM

I have been using automatix for a year now. I am using automatix2 now with edgy. It has always worked great for me, and I plan on using it in the future. It's just so quick and easy, I love it.

Sammi

January 3rd, 2007, 12:02 PM

That that's one scary quote you found aysiu:

Installing non-free media format support with Automatix
Automatix (http://www.getautomatix.com/index.html) is a third-party utility for automating the installation of the most commonly requested applications in some Debian-based distributions. While it works well for many users, it is also known to often corrupt systems and leave them in a state where upgrading to a later Ubuntu release is impossible. You have been warned; use at your own risk. Please join #automatix for support with Automatix.
Haven't seen FUD like that since that MS "get the facts" campaign :shock:

I can't belive they're stating info on bugs, which were fixed a long time ago, as fact today, and even saying it's a common problem. PURE FUD :evil:

Personally I've used Automatix and Automatix2 often and without a hitch. I give it my warmest recomendation.

Lord Illidan

January 3rd, 2007, 12:16 PM

That that's one scary quote you found aysiu:
Haven't seen FUD like that since that MS "get the facts" campaign :shock:

I can't belive they're stating info on bugs, which were fixed a long time ago, as fact today, and even saying it's a common problem. PURE FUD :evil:

Personally I've used Automatix and Automatix2 often and without a hitch. I give it my warmest recomendation.

What works for you needn't work for someone else. While I support the project, I don't use it myself, as I prefer to install things myself, and learn more.

Sammi

January 3rd, 2007, 12:23 PM

What works for you needn't work for someone else.
That's why I clearly stated that my recomendation was based on personal experience.

TLE

January 3rd, 2007, 12:31 PM

I also have been using Automatix a lot and have never had a problem. But I also, as someone else mentions, never upgrade but do a clean install.

I know that I have heard about Automatix breaking systems, but I somewhat have the feeling that it is old news. It has been a really long time since the last time that I heard about this. And that WIKI entry, saying that it will often break your system seems very exaggerated.

What all if this comes down to: It seem like and old conflict which has escalated to a certain point and now no-one is willing to take take the first step down even though it has been a long time since it was actually going on. ](*,)

It actually really bothers me that something like this exist in the Ubuntu-community, that is otherwise such a warm and friendly community. *sigh*

So come on. Someone, take a deep breath, step up to the plate and lets end this old thing. Arnieboy, come on remove that quoted part of your WIKI. Come on, someone who was originally involved on the "Ubuntu" side, remove or rewrite that "often"-section from the Ubuntu WIKI and stop threatening to kick people for recommending AUTOMATIX in the #ubuntu channel.

:) :) :) Please :) :) :)

xmastree

January 3rd, 2007, 12:39 PM

arnieboy (Automatix's creator) has been known to not get along with everybody...That's very true. First time I tried it, I had problems and casually mentioned the fact. The reaction I received from the creator was not very nice, and was eventually removed from the forum.

Since then, Automatix has improved a lot and I tried it with a new installation and it worked well, so now it's the first thing I do after an install (before I've done anything 'important', this may or may not be significant...)

I've had no problems with it recently, and recommend it. I suspect the FUD being spread is as a result of arnieboy upsetting a few people (myself included, although I'm not petty enough to try and spoil things for him. He's contributed a lot to the community, and doesn't deserve that, whatever his attitude.) during Automatix's early days.

steven8

January 3rd, 2007, 12:42 PM

I have used automatix without problem, but then, I have not tried any kind of dist upgrade yet.

mips

January 3rd, 2007, 01:02 PM

I think it stems from the old days where the force flag was used. Issues like these have been sorted. It seems to work well for lots of people. Last time I tried it was a while back with dapper, I did have a issue though not that I could remember what it was and posted on their forums. I just installed stuff myself.

I would prefer a list of packages to add for the codecs etc so i could do it myself. The wiki is to disorganised for my liking.

ButteBlues

January 3rd, 2007, 01:07 PM

While I won't ever be using it, as I like complete control over installation of packages, I do support it as a tool for new users who may not feel comfortable learning the command line right away.

rocknrolf77

January 3rd, 2007, 01:26 PM

I still use automatix for installing extra fonts, it's so nice to have all those font's installed with the click of a button. It saved me when I was a new frustrated ubuntu user and didn't know where to look around for stuff. I still use bleeder to install GTweakUI. After fresh install number "MANY" it's nice to have all these things you need install with a few clicks. :)

Atomic Dog

January 3rd, 2007, 07:12 PM

I read the warnings about Automatix and thus avoided it. For a half year I muddled through installing apps and drivers/codecs. I finally did a fresh Edgy install on my new laptop and figured I had nothing to lose. It worked beautifully. Saved me time and effort.

I recommend it to anybody that will listen now. It makes the linux experience for the novice much more painless.

PriceChild

January 3rd, 2007, 07:28 PM

I half recommend not using automatix because then you learn yourself, and I half recommend you don't use it because I haven't had good experience.

Most of the time I would say user error, for example http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=329794

Nethertheless... I don't like the idea of http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=329879

meng

January 3rd, 2007, 07:33 PM

There is a wide range of different views on this one. Personally, I think that those agitating for automatix to be included in Ubuntu would be better off steering users to Linux Mint or PCLinuxOS. If you really want things to be simple for the novice, find them a distro where it just works without having to do anything as "complicated" as using Automatix. Sure, PCLinuxOS has smaller repositories, but if you can't use Synaptic or "sudo aptitude install" in the first place, who cares how big your repositories are?

And yes, I'm being deliberately provocative.

oyvindaa

January 3rd, 2007, 08:19 PM

I've used automatix for a while now and I've never had any problems with it.

arnieboy

January 3rd, 2007, 08:32 PM

I half recommend not using automatix because then you learn yourself, and I half recommend you don't use it because I haven't had good experience.
Pricechild: Before you post the same opinion of yours a hundred times more in hundred different threads to take the total post count to 200, why dont you tell us all what exactly your "bad experience" with Automatix was? AFAIK, I never saw a single support question or bug report EVER from you or your buddies who keep crying foul.

An update for users who actually use Automatix: Michael Vogt (a paid Ubuntu developer and the lead dev in charge of Common Customizations) recently sent an email to the Automatix team appreciating what we have done and expressed interest in collaborating with us. This is good news for all Ubuntu and Automatix users concerned.

insane_alien

January 3rd, 2007, 08:55 PM

earobinson

January 3rd, 2007, 09:05 PM

Pricechild: Before you post the same opinion of yours a hundred times more in hundred different threads to take the total post count to 200, why dont you tell us all what exactly your "bad experience" with Automatix was? AFAIK, I never saw a single support question or bug report EVER from you or your buddies who keep crying foul.

An update for users who actually use Automatix: Michael Vogt (a paid Ubuntu developer and the lead dev in charge of Common Customizations) recently sent an email to the Automatix team appreciating what we have done and expressed interest in collaborating with us. This is good news for all Ubuntu and Automatix users concerned.
Congrats on the extra intrest in your project arnieboy

Shay Stephens

January 3rd, 2007, 10:40 PM

Congrats on the extra intrest in your project arnieboy

Yes, well deserved too. I just wanted to add, that when I first started using automatix, I didn't have a clue how to do all those things on my own. After a while, I learned how to do them. But I still go back to using automatix because it is so much easier and faster to have automatix do it.

I don't at all begrudge anyone getting their hands dirty to make these changes and installs themselves. But it is rather disappointing to hear people bash those who don't want to spend the time or effort to do so manually. Showing a little respect to the choices people decide to make is a good thing.

Thanks arnieboy and the automatix team. You have made my linux conversion and experience a pleasant and productive one. Keep up the good work!

mips

January 4th, 2007, 12:41 AM

automatix saves a LOT of time if your installing from scratch. personally i use a script i made myself that replaces the source list and executes the mother of all 'sudo aptitude install ...' commands to get my system to the way i like it.

You mind sharing ? I always wanted one but never got around to making my own. Would be easier to edit yours :mrgreen:

Atomic Dog

January 6th, 2007, 09:23 PM

The fight over whether Automatix should be included with Ubuntu is secondary to the argument that Automatix is "bad" for users to install and use. Ubuntu is supposed to be more painless than some distros. This means that using automatix makes the user experience more pleasant and easy. I support this effort. Can "we" affford to be so closed minded and elitist as to think users should have to learn the inner workings of an operating system? No. We may be 2%ers, those that are proficcient, learn stuff in a flash, aren't afraid to mess with stuff, but we need to keep the general user in mind, and make their lives easier.

I think Automatix, whether included with Fiesty or just downloadable, is a good effort and should get our support. Just my opinion. I work with a large office of novice users, and personally speaking, find things like Automatix useful.

Every user, whether expert or novice, that moves away from MS (and Apple IMHO) is a victory for not only open source, but also pushes these companies to offer a better product for a lower price.

Polygon

January 6th, 2007, 11:41 PM

automatix has worked for me perfectly about 3 times (one of them was with the older not pretty gui version).... dont see why people say its bad to use.

and if automatix didnt exist, it wouldent help new users anyway because they would most likely end up just copying and pasting commands into the terminal anyway.

Sammi

January 6th, 2007, 11:52 PM

www.getautomatix.com (http://www.getautomatix.com/)

Automatix2 is a graphical interface for automating the installation (and uninstallation) of the most commonly requested applications in Debian based Linux operating systems. Currently supported are Ubuntu 6.10, 6.06 and Mepis 6.Should Automatix be included in Ubuntu by default?

Sammi

January 6th, 2007, 11:54 PM

23meg

January 6th, 2007, 11:58 PM

No.

Tomosaur

January 7th, 2007, 12:07 AM

No. I agree with some kind of post-install setup program included by default, but not automatix. Any post-install thing should be Ubuntu only, possibly incorporated into synaptic or something like that.

Johnsie

January 7th, 2007, 12:20 AM

Yes. it would save alot of time and effort installing things which most people actually expect from their OS. Possible other alternatives are repositories which actually have this stuff or using a flavour of Ubuntu that already has what you want in it. An Ubuntu that came with EasyUbuntu and Automatix would be nice for those of who who wish to use the software they provide. I currently install with Linux Mint to save me time installing various codecs. Freedom is also about giving people a choice.

However, the likelyhood of Ubuntu ever having that non-free stuff is very small. I suggest that if you want this kind of software by default then you should find an Ubuntu deriative that comes with it.

PriceChild

January 7th, 2007, 12:21 AM

No.

We already have a meta-package in feisty that pulls in java flash audio codecs and maybe a few other restricted formats.

maxamillion

January 7th, 2007, 12:22 AM

No.

M_the_C

January 7th, 2007, 12:26 AM

No, you don't need Automatix to work a computer and anything it does can be done manually.
Some people prefer making detailed decisions about the setup of their computer, they don't need Automatix.

Perhaps there should be an icon to atomatically install Automatix on the Desktop after a new installation, people who don't want it just delete the icon (as opposed to the program) and anyone who might need it can install Automaitx more easily.

PriceChild

January 7th, 2007, 12:27 AM

*threads merged*

arnieboy

January 7th, 2007, 01:10 AM

NO, because then AX would suffer from the same red tape and bad QA/QC as Ubuntu Universe and Multiverse.

Bloch

January 7th, 2007, 02:57 AM

I have used automatix on three computers so far and it has worked fine for me. I am thankful to the creators (headed by someone called arnieboy).

The quote below, which is on the automatix official site, smacks of politics and bickering. I don't even know what a #Ubuntu channel is (some kind of instant messaging?), but the statement below is somehow undignified.
What impression does it give you if the first thing a person says to you is: "A lot of people are saying bad things about me. Don't believe them."

If someone on #Ubuntu told you that Automatix caused a certain problem don't believe him/her. Its a known fact that the #Ubuntu channel spreads misinformation about Automatix. If you ask us for help and you mention that your were told by someone on #Ubuntu that Automatix caused the problem, your request for help will be ignored.

BuffaloX

January 7th, 2007, 03:01 AM

I half recommend not using automatix because then you learn yourself[/url]

Some may not want to learn how to do anything at all related to getting an OS up and running , or rather learn as little as possible...

Doing things the hard way just to learn, would mean not to use anything prebuild at all, might as well use Gentoo, or even better, make your own OS.

I admit I personally find it very satisfying to learn new things about Linux, but it takes time, and I need my system to work now, not in 6 months.

aysiu

January 7th, 2007, 03:06 AM

I agree with Bloch on this.

While it is disconcerting to have FUD spread about your product, a disclaimer of that nature almost feeds more into the negativity and skepticism than a total lack of disclaimer.

The truth is that word of mouth is something that often can't be stopped, and if you know your product is good, people who have had good experiences with it will probably drown out those who have had bad experiences or claimed to have had bad experiences.

My take on it from having seen a lot of threads about Automatix and having used it once myself--Automatix is a piece of software. No software is flawless in every situation. By using any software, you risk it not working. I have, however, seen many, many people extremely happy with the convenience Automatix offers. If you want to learn how to do things manually, you have that right, and if not, Automatix is at least worth a try. If the failure/breakage rate of Automatix were significant, I doubt the project would still be around or even mentioned.

BuffaloX

January 7th, 2007, 03:50 AM

I agree with aysiu who agrees with Bloch. :-k

That warning actually kept me from using automatix at first, then I found out it did something which I needed, so I used it anyway, and it worked fine for me. Thanx arnieboy.
It solved my problem so easy, I don't even remember what it was. :p

A more toned down version would be better, maybe something like:

It has come to our attention, that the IRC #ubuntu offer obsolete and misleading information regarding Automatix. Please do not use #ubuntu regarding questions related to automatix.

Maybe ad some places that are good for questions about automatix...

Spano

January 7th, 2007, 05:52 AM

I would prefer a list of packages to add for the codecs etc so i could do it myself. The wiki is to disorganised for my liking.
I like that idea a lot. Just a text file waiting for you in the home directory after install.

Sammi

January 7th, 2007, 06:28 AM

It has come to our attention, that the IRC #ubuntu offer obsolete and misleading information regarding Automatix. Please do not use #ubuntu regarding questions related to automatix.
Beautifully put =D>

I think that the Automatix team should seriously consider this replacement text.

rai4shu2

January 7th, 2007, 06:40 AM

IRC is not a reliable source of helpful information in my experience. For example, mods will frequently take what people say out of context in order to derive offense and sarcasm that was not meant. I suggest people avoid IRC.

I also voted "no" on the general principle that I think there are already enough installers by default as it is, and adding more would just add more unwelcome complexity.

arnieboy

January 7th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Let me make a few things clear for the folks who have invested time and energy in reading this thread, thinking about it and posting in it:
1) The number of folks who have voted on this thread till now is approximately equal to how many times Automatix gets downloaded every half an hour across this planet.
2) The Automatix team already has its hands full developing Automatix, maintaining it, answering support questions, and doing REAL research on what users really want (which is why Automatix gets downloaded and used as many times as it does).
3) We frankly do not have the time to deal with FUD, and the various issues arising out of it, especially questions like "Hey I was told on #ubuntu that Automatix broke my system. Can you tell me how that happened?" OR in certain cases: "You guys SUCK! They told me so on #Ubuntu" even before we get time to explain that it was a rotten kernel package which the revered Ubuntu Team did not get enough time to test and which resulted in their Dapper to Edgy breakage AND were desperately looking for a scapegoat especially since Ubuntu has been Number 1 on Distrowatch for so long AND they all want it to stay that way.
4) Ubuntu has come a long way since it was born and the fact that it is where it is, is partly because of Automatix. It is a known fact and is acknowledged even by the toughest naysayers. Somewhere down the line when the original creator of Automatix refused to get in line with the rest of the folks who control Ubuntu because he chose to follow his own path, all hell broke loose and since then, the pettiness hasn't stopped. But then, all forms of politics are petty as they are juicy as many of our friends will agree.
As for the rest who do not care, keep enjoying the fruits of our labor.
We appreciate your continued patronage.
-Arnie

aysiu

January 7th, 2007, 07:35 AM

So you're not going to take BuffaloX's suggestion?

arnieboy

January 7th, 2007, 07:40 AM

So you're not going to take BuffaloX's suggestion?
We didn't say we wouldn't. We actually appreciate his rephrasing our statement.

aysiu

January 7th, 2007, 07:43 AM

We didnt say we wouldn't. We actually appreciate his rephrasing our statement.
Awesome. That's great to hear.

By the way, I don't use Automatix (I did one time), but I appreciate all the hard work you do. Keep it up.

Malta paul

January 7th, 2007, 11:20 AM

If I were a clever person I could use code via the Terminal, but I am not.](*,) Therefore I use Automatix2 which works great on my system.
A very BIG thank you to all the Automatix2 developers for their dedication and hard work in giving the likes of me a supper programme with continuous updates :D

Quillz

January 7th, 2007, 11:25 AM

I'd like to see it, and EasyUbuntu, included in future Ubuntu releases by default.

TLE

January 7th, 2007, 12:06 PM

We didn't say we wouldn't. We actually appreciate his rephrasing our statement.

Awesome. That's great to hear.

"I propose a phased mutual stand down over the next 5 hours"

Now I think there has been enough bitterness from both parties in this conflict and so it can only be resolved or softened if both sides help out. And so I think it is great that the Automatix team considers rephrasing that statement but I think it has to accompanied by someone changing that text in the Ubuntu WIKI that was quoted earlier. Now off course anyone can do it since it is in the WIKI but I think it should be someone that was involved in this on the anti-Automatix side from the beginning.

Come on now, don't be shy !

BuffaloX

January 7th, 2007, 12:59 PM

Beautifully put =D>

I think that the Automatix team should seriously consider this replacement text.

Thanx. :D

We didn't say we wouldn't. We actually appreciate his rephrasing our statement.

You are very welcome to use it, I would be honourred. ;)

I actually didn't vote to begin with, because automatix is easy to download and execute.
and I wasn't not sure if included is meant as included in repository or as ready on your desktop after installation.
I definitely think it should at least be in the repository.
But so should Code::blocks and Lazarus pascal and Audacius just to mention a few other extremely cool apps.

teaker1s

January 7th, 2007, 01:15 PM

although automatix improves quick config it repeatedly didn't show options that were currently installed via apt-get or synaptic in the tick box area.
Further to this I remember spitting of the dummy and threatening to withdraw the project back along.

maybe rather than including it by default their could be a weblink in firefox and possibly some mention of third party projects in ubuntu help

as for the other thread automatrix is a nice little app, but it's not a synaptic replacement

arnieboy

January 7th, 2007, 10:44 PM

Tomosaur

January 8th, 2007, 11:14 AM

Does automatix actually use apt, or does it download straight from official project mirrors?

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 03:24 PM

Does automatix actually use apt, or does it download straight from official project mirrors?
uses apt whenever it can.

January 8th, 2007, 04:11 PM

Let me make a few things clear for the folks who have invested time and energy in reading this thread, thinking about it and posting in it:
1) The number of folks who have voted on this thread till now is approximately equal to how many times Automatix gets downloaded every half an hour across this planet.

Two hunded times per hour? I wonder how many hits the RestrictedFormats page gets every half hour?

2) The Automatix team already has its hands full developing Automatix, maintaining it, answering support questions, and doing REAL research on what users really want (which is why Automatix gets downloaded and used as many times as it does).

You need more team members. Team work.

3) We frankly do not have the time to deal with FUD, and the various issues arising out of it, especially questions like "Hey I was told on #ubuntu that Automatix broke my system. Can you tell me how that happened?" OR in certain cases: "You guys SUCK! They told me so on #Ubuntu" even before we get time to explain that it was a rotten kernel package which the revered Ubuntu Team did not get enough time to test and which resulted in their Dapper to Edgy breakage AND were desperately looking for a scapegoat especially since Ubuntu has been Number 1 on Distrowatch for so long AND they all want it to stay that way.

So you're saying automatix is a scapegoat?

4) Ubuntu has come a long way since it was born and the fact that it is where it is, is partly because of Automatix. It is a known fact and is acknowledged even by the toughest naysayers.

Two hunded downloads an hour in comparison to an estimated eight million Ubuntu users worldwide....

Somewhere down the line when the original creator of Automatix refused to get in line with the rest of the folks who control Ubuntu because he chose to follow his own path, all hell broke loose and since then, the pettiness hasn't stopped. But then, all forms of politics are petty as they are juicy as many of our friends will agree.

Broke lose from what? Ubuntu does not ship proprietary media formats - never has. Automatix had nothing to do with that.

And nobody every said Automatix could not be enetered into launchpad, nor could it not be packaged for distribution. The fact that it's an independant project is your personal choice.

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:15 PM

Two hunded downloads an hour in comparison to an estimated eight million Ubuntu users worldwide....
per hour versus total accumulated over more than 2 years????? what the....
For a more reasonable comparison. since its inception in September 2005, Automatix has been downloaded well over 2 million times...

matthew

January 8th, 2007, 04:30 PM

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:33 PM

You need more team members. Team work.
come, join us.

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:34 PM

So you're saying automatix is a scapegoat?
Attempts towards making it one have been made occasionally (but not by all)

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:35 PM

Broke lose (sic) from what? Ubuntu does not ship proprietary media formats - never has. Automatix had nothing to do with that.
Automatix is NOT ONLY about proprietary codecs (thats just one of its 60 options).

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:37 PM

And nobody every said Automatix could not be enetered (sic) into launchpad, nor could it not be packaged for distribution. The fact that it's an independant (sic) project is your personal choice.
We already are on launchpad, though we do not use it actively anymore. The fact that it is independent ensures much better QA/QC than what plagues Ubuntu universe and multiverse and keeps Ubuntu users from running away to other distros or Windows in sheer disgust and/or frustration.

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:39 PM

Two hunded times per hour? I wonder how many hits the RestrictedFormats page gets every half hour.
Who cares how many hits the Automatix website gets in an hour? Does that make any point about the number of times it gets downloaded? Does that make sense?

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 04:45 PM

If you are using Automatix simply for the installation of codecs, Java and Flash this poll's question may be moot.

http://digg.com/linux_unix/New_OFFICIAL_Ubuntu_package_auto_installs_codecs_F lash_Java_MS_Fonts

most users actually use it for a lot more. In fact new software makers approach us to promote their software in the Ubuntu community. That way they get better exposure and more bug reports and hence a quicker route to a stable and usable product.

teaker1s

January 8th, 2007, 04:48 PM

positive point as a doubter to start off with from experience the only issue I've had with automatix was the nvidia driver install that didn't work with my 6150 go . other than that it's proved reliable for me and saved loads of time installing the basics like codecs:mrgreen:

Tomosaur

January 8th, 2007, 04:57 PM

Arnieboy, please use the edit button :(

January 8th, 2007, 05:10 PM

per hour versus total accumulated over more than 2 years????? what the....
For a more reasonable comparison. since its inception in September 2005, Automatix has been downloaded well over 2 million times...

With every user re-downloding the newer version every time it comes out? How many version shave there been since 2005/09? That pretty much makes the two million figure a lot smaller.

come, join us.

Only if you promise to be lovey-dovey.

Attempts towards making it one have been made occasionally (but not by all)

Trust me, the the revered(sic) Ubuntu Team never blamed the xorg breakage on you.

Automatix is NOT ONLY about proprietary codecs (thats just one of its 60 options).

Which ones are not allowed to be included with Ubuntu, then? What exactly do you mean "break loose?"

We already are on launchpad, though we do not use it actively anymore. The fact that it is independent ensures much better QA/QC than what plagues Ubuntu universe and multiverse and keeps Ubuntu users from running away to other distros or Windows in sheer disgust and/or frustration.

It also prevents people from installing it and running it as any other normal piece of software. The individual maintainers are directly responsible for Q/A. Why would it be different? There *is* an updates repository. Uploading your changes there makes them available to all the other mirrors.

Who cares how many hits the Automatix website gets in an hour? Does that make any point about the number of times it gets downloaded? Does that make sense?

To install multimedia codecs, you either use a third-party tool or visit the RestrictedFormats page. The hitcount on that page would reveal a number of people who go there for help on installing their codecs. You could compare with the numberof people who try automatix.

most users actually use it for a lot more. In fact new software makers approach us to promote their software in the Ubuntu community.

Like what?

tseliot

January 8th, 2007, 05:34 PM

azz, arnieboy

Shall we start a new flamewar?

Is this discussion going anywhere?

While I'm sure that the answer to latter question is no, I have to make sure that the same applies to the former.

In other words, please stop.

Thanks

Omnios

January 8th, 2007, 05:42 PM

First off arnieboy great work I am impressed with the current product. As for shipping Ubuntu with it I really dont think it would make a huge impact but possibly have it listed in the extended repos.

As for uses I already know how to install all the stuff as I have done so many times. I usually use Automatix for certain things that could take a long time to do.

Now I find Automatix to really shine when you are trying to set up a Ubuntu install on some one elses computer as I have just done on my dads computer and it saved me a lot of work.

I would definatly like to see it in a regular repo though.

And thanks to arnieboy for a great product.
:KS :KS :KS :KS :KS

Atomic Dog

January 8th, 2007, 05:45 PM

come, join us.

Where's the picture of Darth Vader reaching his hand out to Luke Skywalker when I need it...

Just lightening up the mood.

January 8th, 2007, 06:07 PM

In other words, please stop.

Thanks

Well, I would rather like him to elaborate on some of the things he has said. If he can't do that in a civilized way, then I for one would not take part in the conversation.

tseliot

January 8th, 2007, 06:10 PM

Well, I would rather like him to elaborate on some of the things he has said.
Does it really matter?

neoflight

January 8th, 2007, 06:17 PM

Does it really matter?

does that mean you dont care? sometimes it clears matter up. let them fight...its not gonna reach anywhere...
some people will use AX and some dont... i did and i will use it if i feel like using it...

i dont think someone else can dictate what i should do and should not do...
automatix saved me a lot of times in getting several things done such as getting flash working etc. it is a good product...
there will always be people working for and against.

i should also add that the, sometimes, automatix's creator's arrogance annoys me even though it might be true that automatix helped ubuntu in someway.

i don't see Linus Torvalds replying arrogantly (but always to the point and sometimes with pun/fun) to people that complain about a broken kernel allegation.

tseliot

January 8th, 2007, 06:27 PM

does that mean you dont care?

Ok, let me rephrase my question:
Do you think that answering that question would lead to anything important?

Is the answer worth risking that another flamewar?

And even though I appreciate azz proposal "not take part in the conversation" I would like to remember that flamewars do not involve only 2 people.

I'm not accusing anyone but I'd like to see a discussion rather than an (potential?) argue, and I'm sure we can do it.

Let's stay on topic (read the title of the thread) (and of course reply politely as usual ;) )

neoflight

January 8th, 2007, 06:34 PM

Ok, let me rephrase my question:
Do you think that answering that question would lead to anything important?

Is the answer worth risking that another flamewar?

And even though I appreciate azz proposal "not take part in the conversation" I would like to remember that flamewars do not involve only 2 people.

I'm not accusing anyone but I'd like to see a discussion rather than an (potential?) argue, and I'm sure we can do it.

Let's stay on topic (read the title of the thread) (and of course reply politely as usual ;) )

sorry tseliot, i edited my post before i saw ur reply....as of the purpose of the original thread...i would say its good the way it is handled now. people will have to learn how to use apt and wget...and they can get automatix easily. and the run it as they wish.... there are other packages that can be given priority to be included in the default distribution rather than including an application that helps install other applications.

tseliot

January 8th, 2007, 06:37 PM

sorry tseliot, i edited my post before i saw ur reply.
No problem, you can edit your post now if you wish.

...as of the purpose of the original thread...i would say its good the way it is handled now. people will have to learn how to use apt and wget...and they can get automatix easily. and the run it as they wish.... there are other packages that can be given priority to be included in the default distribution rather than including an application that helps install other applications.
This is the kind of replies I would like to see :D

teaker1s

January 8th, 2007, 06:38 PM

I know there is feisty restricted format package and I wonder the legal issue of including either or both as part of the install iso:-k
- wouldn't that put ubuntu in a position it could be taken to court and also become illegal to install in many countries unless the restricted formats were stripped?

STRIPPED OF RESTRICTED FORMATS WOULD CRIPPLE AUTOMATRIX USEFULNESS FROM MY POINT OF VIEW =not included in install iso

also we would then be walking into the alleged infringement trap microsoft claims

arnieboy

January 8th, 2007, 06:50 PM

With every user re-downloding the newer version every time it comes out? How many version shave there been since 2005/09? That pretty much makes the two million figure a lot smaller.
If you are referring to this article (http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=20495&hed=Linux%3A+Ubuntu+Founder+On+Microsoft+%E2%80%9C Challenge%E2%80%9D+) when you say 8 million users you are obviously referring to (as quoted by Phocion55 on http://www.digg.com ) 8 million users spread out between Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Christbuntu, Satanbuntu, Newbuntu, UClowntu, Ubuntubuntu, *takes a breath* Linux Mint, Utelo, Hotpocketsbuntu, Crackbuntu, etc..

Only if you promise to be lovey-dovey.
We will, ONLY if you promise to be civil (read civilized) and stop being a troublemaker.

Trust me, the the revered(sic) Ubuntu Team never blamed the xorg breakage on you.
Did I spell "revered" wrong? Answers.com begs to differ:
http://www.answers.com/revered&r=67
The broken xorg package resulted in Dapper to Edgy breakages and a couple of community devs blamed it on Automatix in their blogs.

It also prevents people from installing it and running it as any other normal piece of software. The individual maintainers are directly responsible for Q/A. Why would it be different? There *is* an updates repository. Uploading your changes there makes them available to all the other mirrors.
The MOTU freezes all changes long before a release becomes official and often that results in a ton of broken packages never getting fixed. Automatix does not see that as a viable model of survival.

To install multimedia codecs, you either use a third-party tool or visit the RestrictedFormats page. The hitcount on that page would reveal a number of people who go there for help on installing their codecs. You could compare with the numberof people who try automatix.
as I said, the hit count on the Automatix home page doesnt tell us anything about how many folks actually use Automatix. Same holds for all wiki pages.