Article on MS and MS users

[dio525i]

this is an article i stumbled on (litterally stumbled with stubleupon : P ) guy seems to be fairly level headed is a good enough read if your interested in hearing yet another rant : P

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/wrongms.htm

i've dealt with people like this too....they annoy me

them: "something's wrong with my computer"
me: "were you sent any email attachments or go to any websites you don't usually go to?"
them: "no i've only got emails from people i know the others didn't work"
me: "what?"
them: "they don't open anything"
me: "let me get my linux recovery cd"
them: "what's linux"
me: "it fixes problems with windows"


...but i guess it wouldn't be nice to be anything other than polite to my mother : P

she's always got to open every email....SHE EVEN GOES INTO JUNK AND OPENS ALL OF THEM JUST TO CHECK.....AHH!

[macogw]

Hey, now, I have a "click on everything" mindset...except for attachments. Click on every other button you can find! It'll break, but how do you expect to become a knowledgeable computer user unike the people he's talking about? You learn to fix it, of course! Break it as much as you can and then try to get it working again without a complete reinstall.



But since then, people are being born into a Web-aware world. Kids are growing up with computers and the internet. They're learning right from day one how to use a computer. Slowly, clueless users are fading away and clued-up users are replacing them. It's an irreversible trend. Sooner or later, it will triumph.
He's wrong, though. Just because someone grew up with a computer doesn't make them computer smart. My 17 year old siblings are clueless. They know anti-virus, anti-spyware...good things to have. Can't run them. Can't update them. They're clueless. Ya know why? They have me. I'm the oldest child, and therefore, the natural sysadmin for the family. My parents didn't grow up with comps, so they can't do it. I was the first one to grow up on a computer, so it was my job. As long as families have their "natural sysadmin", there'll be one comp-savvy person and the rest clueless. Now there's just people who don't have to be taught to install. They do it on their own, but they still don't think. Actually, they DID have to be taught to click next 30 times...eh, whatever. I wonder if they've figured out how to use Synaptic* yet... Point remains, if someone grows up on Windows, it doesn't make them any more computer savvy than someone who started using it after they turned 40. They still just know how to double click the Setup.exe and let it go without finding out what they're installing first. No, I'll hazard a guess that people who were born between 1975 and 1985 are the most computer-savvy. They were old enough to catch Windows 3.1, not 95, and when they did, they had an understanding of how computers operated (they were pre-teens and teens), not just how a mouse worked. People who understand how computers work know what to do and what not to do. People who only know how to use specific applications (which is the useless crap they teach in elementary and middle schools...MS Office 8 years in a row....gah!) are the ones who can only say "it's broken. fix it" when something goes wrong. They can't give more detail, because they have no concept of WHAT is broken. They don't even know where to BEGIN troubleshooting. "Hmm...no picture on the little tv thing. It's broken!" replaces "hmm...no picture on the monitor...is it plugged in? oh! that's why"

*I get less calls about viruses, spyware, adware, etc. this way. Teaching them new places to click in Ubuntu (which they did sort of figure out while playing with my lappy after I switched) is easier than teaching them to update/run a virus scan.

[dio525i]

i would agree with you almost completely..... made me laugh about the older child thing born between 75 and 85 that is so very true....and i agree on if people just understood in the smallest way how computers worked they could fix 95% of their problems themselves...and have about 85% less of them to start with! and that computes into some kind of fraction i can't even begin to understand : P

but i disagree that people are not slowly gaining an understanding...

and example that suprized me was for christmas i was at an aunts place....i went to go see my cousin...she'd be...ahh...probably about 16 now and she was on the comptuer using firefox but she had it skinned with a few addons like adblock.... i exclaimed that she was using firefox and she said "yeah you told me to use it...i downloaded the new one today" .... so given that i told her to use it because it meant coming over much less to clean spyware and malware from the computer...BUT...she didn't have me telling her update it much less show her how to install themes and the new adblock plus....the last i rmember i installed v1.0.0.7 and left it at that on top of this...since i installed firefox on their computer i hadn't been back to fix any computer problems....

it seems that she had learned...i explained why she needed firefox because it would block these things that were bad...and she understood and used it...and i can only suppose that she saw the improvement and decided to keep on keeping on with it

(aside...i know that doesn't prove understanding much....but her parents also ban her from MSN she figured out how to install and uninstall it between usage...aswell how to set firefox not to save a history once she closed it)

it's slow and coming but it will happen....the slightly less ignorant will inherit the earth

[mykalreborn]

...but her parents also ban her from MSN she figured out how to install...

why doesn't she use gaim instead? ;)

i agreee with this guy. there are a lot of people who have no idea o how to use a computer. my father uses ubuntu because i've tricked him into thiinking it's microsoft :D, but if i change the order of the icons from his desktop he remains clueless... i don't really understand how he can't manage to figure it out, but he just can't. well he's a writer and he's not good woth sciences. plus he's pretty old.
another example would be on the romanian ubuntu forum. a guy who just switched to linux was asking how he can change the preferences in firefox. i mean... it doesn't take you that long to fond out. it's not something you ask on a forum.
this is another bad habbit some people have, especially the new linux-ers on this forum. they don't even dare to search for their toruble first. they just ask in here, without any interes.

and the guy is right about another thing. windows is just so easy to use. i recently installed windows on my hdd because i needed some software. i haven't been using it for about three months. and i was amazed at how easy it was to set up. it just is. linux is advancing in this realm, of the desktop os. bu t it still has a long way to go until it reaches windows' easiness. the same long way windows has to go until it reaches linux's safety. ;)

[petermck]

He's right about Windows being easy to use; too easy when it comes to security and that is the root of the problem. Microsoft have never taken responsibility for the misuse of their easy OS by making a more robust installation i.e. not with admin rights. Almost every machine I see running windows is logged in with admin rights.
As for the ease of use, Linux and specifically Ubuntu is catching up fast. I can see the day coming soon when any user will have the ease of use of windows with Ubuntu; out of the box as it were, but it will be based on a fundamentally more secure system.

[macogw]

i would agree with you almost completely..... made me laugh about the older child thing born between 75 and 85 that is so very true.
Well, I was born in '88, but looking around my dorm, I seem to have just gotten lucky. The rest of the 18/19 y.o. crew seems to have a lot of problems. There's a case-modder downstairs, a robot-programmer down the hall, and an Ubuntu-user across the hall, but there's also kids who think putting the Windows disk in will install MS Office. Anyone born born between '85 and '90 seems to just have gotten the tail-end of it, if they got it. I'm definitely a lot less knowledgeable in computers than a lot of people I know who fall in the 75-85 range though. They know ALL the tricks.

[dio525i]

i'm right in the middle of that then eh....born in 85....

i know that i understand the computer....but my strong point is that i understand how to search google when i don't know what's going on!

[kevinf311]

...people who were born between 1975 and 1985 are the most computer-savvy. They were old enough to catch Windows 3.1...

That's me :D I don't know too much about "most computer savvy," but I definitely started on Windows 3.1. I loved that OS. I could do anything I wanted, go anywhere I wanted and fix most anything I broke :rolleyes:

Then we got a Win98 box and the Internet. Needless to say, it went downhill from there. More weight into fixing broken things (not so much broken by me) instead of doing things and going places that I wanted.

Still, I learned about files and malicious scripts and other random knowledge. When XP came about and I got a computer to tote off to college, I was well prepared. I used anti-virus/firewall from the school, and when firefox got real big I switched to it. I also added adware and spyware killers to all the computers in my family.

Now, I use Ubuntu, and it feels like 3.1 again... only, er, faster and prettier and more powerful. I guess I mean it feels like I can do anything, go anywhere, and, right now with help, fix anything.

More power to generation... what are we again?

[mykalreborn]

i see here a lot of people who know windows 3.1 and generally speaking old systems. i started with good ol' winxp :p. and then went out to linux. i wasn't so much into computers a couple of years ago .

[macogw]

That's me :D I don't know too much about "most computer savvy," but I definitely started on Windows 3.1. I loved that OS. I could do anything I wanted, go anywhere I wanted and fix most anything I broke :rolleyes:
That's what I mean though. You're not afraid to break something, and you know how to (or at least figure out how to) fix it. The young'ns think it's unfixable without being really really good with computers, so they're too timid to break anything (well, to break anything on their own....they still manage to download Bonzai Buddy, but they don't do the "oh oh! let's see how much stuff i can click before it breaks!" thing), and then they never learn HOW to be really really good with computers.

[randomnumber]

i would agree with you almost completely..... made me laugh about the older child thing born between 75 and 85 that is so very true....and i agree on if people just understood in the smallest way how computers worked they could fix 95% of their problems themselves...and have about 85% less of them to start with! and that computes into some kind of fraction i can't even begin to understand : P


I think that the fraction as described is 3/400 or 0.75 % of the original problems.

Some one made the comment that when you have an OS that does everything you want and is free and another OS that does the same thing but cost, the organizations will always pick the one that costs. This comes from ignorance and mistrust.

[bastiegast]

I completely agree with the 2nd poster - and the first of course.
I hear people throwing away computers because "it is getting slow" or "it has a """"virus""""". If something small doesn't work they immediately think they have a virus or something. They actually believe its the hardware that is getting slower because the computer is old and those people still are better than the kind of people who can't distinguish hardware and software. A shocking amount of people think Computer == Windows.

Then there's the people how do know the stuff above, but they still might not know what an operating system does, how to change a harddisk, how to configure your bios and such basic knowledge.

And you know why? Because computer education is laughable at school. Everyone is all hysterical about "the digital age" and the youth being "grown up with computers" and "intergrate the computer in education". But actually this is all BS. Because the only way computers come in at education atm. is when typing essays in word, or searching a bit f information on the internet, heck, most of the youth can't even use Google properly.

I think people should get serious computer-education at school. Computers are just as important as math, science and foreign languages, maybe more important even. If they ask me, I could easily think of a programme of lessons. Something like:
lesson 1, how to disassamble your computer.
lesson 2: Google
lesson 3: What is internet, how does it work
lesson 4: internet services; ftp, http, etc
lesson 5: Hardware, software and drivers.
lesson 6: Basic components of the PC; harddrive motherboard processor, ram memory
lesson 7: bios
lesson 8: Computer history
lesson 9: Computer history: Windows
lesson 10: Computer history: Unix
lesson 11: Computer history: Unix derratives
lesson 12: Computer history: Linux

And so i could go on for a while. This way people will become also less slaves of the computer-shops who at the moment still make money on sending people to remove spyware or change harddisks, reinstalling windows. Also you will finally be able to explain people why DRM is bad, and why vista is drm crippled. It might actually help people realize windows is not the only option and they dont need to pay their computer shop to reinstall windows if it has crashed.

Im tired of typing.

Ive been dying to shout this for a long time :p

[M_the_C]

And you know why? Because computer education is laughable at school. Everyone is all hysterical about "the digital age" and the youth being "grown up with computers" and "intergrate the computer in education". But actually this is all BS. Because the only way computers come in at education atm. is when typing essays in word, or searching a bit f information on the internet, heck, most of the youth can't even use Google properly.
I totally agree, computer education is very lacking at the moment.

Our family had our first computer many years now and I used it and learnt by trial and error.
I go to do my GCSEs (end of compulsory education test) and it was so laughbly simple in some places and completely unnecessary in others.

I don't think we even need anything as advanced as your lesson plan, just a bit more information. Learning how to use Word is quite important, but the education should not stop there. Covering the basics of hardware, not just 'That is a monitor, that is a printer' but not as much as 'That is 800Mhz DDR2 Dual Channel RAM.' Just simply explaining what memory does would suffice, but basic education doesn't even go that far.

[Tomosaur]

He's wrong, though. Just because someone grew up with a computer doesn't make them computer smart. My 17 year old siblings are clueless. They know anti-virus, anti-spyware...good things to have. Can't run them. Can't update them. They're clueless. Ya know why? They have me. I'm the oldest child, and therefore, the natural sysadmin for the family. My parents didn't grow up with comps, so they can't do it. I was the first one to grow up on a computer, so it was my job. As long as families have their "natural sysadmin", there'll be one comp-savvy person and the rest clueless. Now there's just people who don't have to be taught to install. They do it on their own, but they still don't think. Actually, they DID have to be taught to click next 30 times...eh, whatever. I wonder if they've figured out how to use Synaptic* yet... Point remains, if someone grows up on Windows, it doesn't make them any more computer savvy than someone who started using it after they turned 40. They still just know how to double click the Setup.exe and let it go without finding out what they're installing first. No, I'll hazard a guess that people who were born between 1975 and 1985 are the most computer-savvy. They were old enough to catch Windows 3.1, not 95, and when they did, they had an understanding of how computers operated (they were pre-teens and teens), not just how a mouse worked. People who understand how computers work know what to do and what not to do. People who only know how to use specific applications (which is the useless crap they teach in elementary and middle schools...MS Office 8 years in a row....gah!) are the ones who can only say "it's broken. fix it" when something goes wrong. They can't give more detail, because they have no concept of WHAT is broken. They don't even know where to BEGIN troubleshooting. "Hmm...no picture on the little tv thing. It's broken!" replaces "hmm...no picture on the monitor...is it plugged in? oh! that's why"

*I get less calls about viruses, spyware, adware, etc. this way. Teaching them new places to click in Ubuntu (which they did sort of figure out while playing with my lappy after I switched) is easier than teaching them to update/run a virus scan.

Agreed completely. It drives me insane how stupid my sister is with all of this. Granted, she's still only 14 - but try as I might to explain why what she's doing is incorrect, stupid, or just plain dangerous - she just ignores me and says 'whatever'. She uses the computer more than me, but I have all the 'geek' reputation because I know what the hell I'm doing and I don't install anything and everything I can find. I've limited her priveleges, I've removed and blocked tons of software I know to cause problems, I've even gone so far as to disconnect the internet when I saw her downloading what I knew to be a virus, but nothing gets through. She literally just doesn't want to know, even though she's costing my dad money and me time. I don't even live in the same house - and I always get asked to fix the PC when I come and visit because it's ground to a halt again. My older brother used to be the same, but he's smartened up a bit now, and he only really uses the computer for audio stuff anyway. I think that's the real problem. Windows has allowed a dumbing down without providing any real safeguards to combat the inherent stupidity the dumbing down creates - and as a result, the people who allow their computers to become zombified and spread malware are the ones who fear their image too much to learn anything valuable about how their system and the internet works. I'm all for simplicity and ease of use - but this presents problems since the user is relinquished of a certain degree of control. If the software isn't robust enough to nullify these issues, then this allows malware to propogate, and the problem persists. It's ironic that Windows - the system which arguably made computing what it is today - may very well be the system which brings it to its knees.

[bonzodog]

I would actually say the most computer savvy are those who saw the early days of DOS and home computers in the mid -80's, being teenagers. I was born in '73, and most of my computer geek buddies who remember the net in it's really early days were born 72-76. KingBahamut, whos a mod in here is the same age as me, and we both remember early UNIX machines, my first experience with UNIX was in 1992. My first experience with the net was in 1996, also found Linux that same year. I had been playing with computers since 1984, when I wrote Games in BASIC on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum, and, later, a Commodore 64.

I first ran into DOS in 1989, on a 286 machine, and learnt then how to write progs in hex code.

I started using Linux as a home OS in 1999, after GPF-ing Windows 98se less than an hour after clean install.

[macogw]

I would actually say the most computer savvy are those who saw the early days of DOS and home computers in the mid -80's, being teenagers. I was born in '73, and most of my computer geek buddies who remember the net in it's really early days were born 72-76. KingBahamut, whos a mod in here is the same age as me, and we both remember early UNIX machines, my first experience with UNIX was in 1992. My first experience with the net was in 1996, also found Linux that same year. I had been playing with computers since 1984, when I wrote Games in BASIC on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum, and, later, a Commodore 64.

I first ran into DOS in 1989, on a 286 machine, and learnt then how to write progs in hex code.

I started using Linux as a home OS in 1999, after GPF-ing Windows 98se less than an hour after clean install.

I was trying to do some math and figure out who would've been a teenager in the time before Windows. I don't quite trust adults to understand computers. They tend to be the ones thinking their computer came with a cupholder. I guess (hope) it wasn't like that back then. I don't remember Windows 3.1, so I don't know if that had an easy GUI or not. I used one of those "Apple for Students" in school before I got a comp with Win95. My computer before that was CP/M-80 (on a Z-80) and CP/M-86 and DOS (on a 8086), and I had NO idea how to use it.

I know my boyfriend was born in '76 and got interested in Linux way in its early days (he said he was 14, but his bday is Xmas, so it would've been mid-to-late-1991 I suppose), so he saved up to get 40 floppy disks and mail them to guy in CA who promised to copy the install disks over for him. When he got them, he expected an x86 port of SunOS (which is what he used at home), but instead discovered an OS that lacked his video drivers...which he then decided to (try to) write. A few blown up monitors later (put too much power through the wrong pin, you'll see what I mean), he had it working. I don't know if he used C or FORTRAN for the driver. I'm not sure when he switched from FORTRAN to C, but he's a code snob now and makes fun of me for using Java when I code.