Council of the EU Says "We Cannot Support Linux"

[moma]

Alarming news !
""The Council of the EU has a streaming service so that we can watch its meetings — but the service can only be accessed by Mac or MS Windows users.""

Article: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/31/1950225

Please sign the petition.... (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/eu_streaming_service_for_everybody) so we can force EU to support open source multimedia formats !
We must defend democracy.

[mdsmedia]

Alarming news !
""The Council of the EU has a streaming service so that we can watch its meetings — but the service can only be accessed by Mac or MS Windows users.""

Article: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/31/1950225

Please sign the petition.... (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/eu_streaming_service_for_everybody) so we can force EU to support open source multimedia formats !
We must defent democracy.I guess the question is...what is the legal problem with formats which are supported in Linux?

[DC@DR]

It really sucks that we, Linux users, are not treated as equally as ******* & Mac users....:-(

[rbalfour]

I guess the question is...what is the legal problem with formats which are supported in Linux?

It has to do with the video format. Linux does not have a licensed codec (WMV9) for it.
What the EU should be using is a open source codec.

[Lord Illidan]

Why can't they use mpeg or another format? It seems very hypocritical of the EU. First, they criticise Microsoft and fine it for it's monopoly practices then they use its formats. And I thought the French Parliament were going to migrate to Linux..

[Sluipvoet]

Why can't they use mpeg or another format? It seems very hypocritical of the EU. First, they criticise Microsoft and fine it for it's monopoly practices then they use its formats. And I thought the French Parliament were going to migrate to Linux..

MPEG is also patented.
The only mature free, open format is Ogg Theora. And quality/size-wise it's not as good as the patented formats.

[Malta paul]

May be the EU doesn't want to be sued by Microsoft ! :D

Well folks after reading this post I gave it a try using Ubuntu 6.10 and VLC media player, guess what, it worked fine. ;)

[Rhapsody]

"The live streaming media service of the Council of the European Union supports Internet Explorer 5 and higher, Netscape Navigator 6 and higher. If you encounter problems with a lower version of your browser, the browser should be updated to facilitate the live streaming media service. Firefox and Opera will be supported with a minimal of functionalities: No possibilities to use the Table Of contents for positioning the streaming. All the buttons for the player will disappear and the standard buttons of the player must be used to control the stream."

Translation: We're really behind on browser technologies, so we're going to disable all but the most basic, can't-possibly-fail functionality on the ones we haven't looked into.

"The live streaming media service of the Council of the European Union can be viewed on Microsoft Windows and Macintosh platforms. We cannot support Linux in a legal way. So the answer is: No support for Linux"

Translation: We have absolutely no idea about the legal implications of supporting Linux and don't view it as worth the time and effort of looking into it, so we've deliberately locked out all Linux users since they're too much of a minority to pressure us much.

[Tomosaur]

As much as I support the cause - I'm not putting my email address into that petition, since it's known for spam.

[Valinski]

Ive signed my support. Never seen that website before. Cool little site! :p

[TheRingmaster]

It really sucks that we, Linux users, are not treated as equally as ******* & Mac users....:-(

How do you think the amiga (http://www.amigaos4.com/) users feel?

[Magnes]

And BSD users by the way.

[Mateo]

How do you think the amiga (http://www.amigaos4.com/) users feel?

i didn't know that still existed. do they still make their own computers or does that run on pcs and macs?

[lyceum]

They can always PAY for a Linux that pays the fee to keep them legal, or make their own distro and pay the fee themselves. They should sell the license for use of MP3's etc to people, once per life, so they can use it the way the way they want. <sigh> Big Business *shakes fist*

[Lord Illidan]

They can always PAY for a Linux that pays the fee to keep them legal, or make their own distro and pay the fee themselves. They should sell the license for use of MP3's etc to people, once per life, so they can use it the way the way they want. <sigh> Big Business *shakes fist*

Hypocrites, more like. Ah well...

[taurus]

And that is why you never believe in what the politicians say; you just watch what they do...

[Johnsie]

Linux is pretty crap when it comes to streaming video. Audio/video streaming is still a lot easier to do with Windows, especially at the server side. From Windows you can stream really easily using shoutcast or Windows media encoder which are both very easy to use. The Linux counterparts are not as easy to use and aren't very good. On the client side we still have to use illegal codecs if we want to watch most streams. My main grievance being a Linux user is that I'm not free to watch what I want when I want. The only way we are going to change this is by flooding the world with Linux cd's and making ourselves seen and heard (not just over the internet). I recently bought http://LinuxPublicity.com which I'm going to be using as a hub for people who want to spread Linux.

[Johnsie]

I don't think these peitions achieve alot but I sign them anyway, if we don't stand up for our rights nobody else will.

[BoyOfDestiny]

Alarming news !
""The Council of the EU has a streaming service so that we can watch its meetings — but the service can only be accessed by Mac or MS Windows users.""

Article: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/31/1950225

Please sign the petition.... (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/eu_streaming_service_for_everybody) so we can force EU to support open source multimedia formats !
We must defend democracy.

Not surprised due to shenanigans like this (2005)

"The EU Software Patent Directive has been or will be scheduled on the agenda of the Agriculture and Fishery Meeting of the 24th of January as an A item, i.e. an item that is to be adopted without a vote. This was announced today by officials of the European Commission and of the EU Council Presidency at various meetings. The entry is not on the official meeting calendar yet."

http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20050121034203123

Only thing that impresses me is the people resisited it, and do not have software patents (at least they aren't recognized throughout the EU) like we do in the U.S.

Now I don't recall anyone voting for it, or me voting for it... So um, I guess I'll just keep violating them (which seems impossible to avoid anyway...)

[TheRingmaster]

i didn't know that still existed. do they still make their own computers or does that run on pcs and macs?


that I don't know. I do know that the operating system is made for the power pc architecture.

[kd7swh]

I copied the mms url out of the page source and pasted it into vlc and it opened the stream just fine.

vlc 0.8.6 supports wmv 9.

you can try it yourself.

mms://ceu.streampower.be/ceu/archive/CEU_PRESS_CONFERENCE/ceu_video1_en_20061221_573.wmv

[Johnsie]

If it's a live mms then you can watch it in Ubuntu using Steeky TV for Linux. You'll also need to have the multimedia codecs and gambas installed. You can also play streaming wmv using mplayer if you have the codecs.

[rbalfour]

I copied the mms url out of the page source and pasted it into vlc and it opened the stream just fine.

vlc 0.8.6 supports wmv 9.

you can try it yourself.

mms://ceu.streampower.be/ceu/archive/CEU_PRESS_CONFERENCE/ceu_video1_en_20061221_573.wmv

Yes, it works when you installed the "pirated"* codecs. But for Legal reasons, they can't come out and say, "YES we support Linux", then Microsoft would turn around and say, "With what, according to own records , no Linux Distro has payed us for a license of our codec"
But then, this may change with the SuSe tie up. Remember, Microsoft has given up the rights to sue users of SuSe over petty stuff.

[3rdalbum]

Yes, it works when you installed the "pirated"* codecs. But for Legal reasons, they can't come out and say, "YES we support Linux", then Microsoft would turn around and say, "With what, according to own records , no Linux Distro has payed us for a license of our codec"

Linspire?

[MrHorus]

Rather than sign a petition, I decided to email them direct considering that my taxes pays their wages.

They were kind enough to reply :)

A bit of a cop out so I sent them another email stating that this doesn't quite address the fact that they are using a closed source, proprietry format that is inaccessable to many people.



Dear Mr Hamilton,

Thank you for your email of 01/01/07.

The FAQ you refer to in your email has an error in its English version compared
to the original French version. The sentence mentioning Linux does not exist in
the original French version. So, the English version has been modified.

We will forward your comments to our technical data department for information.
Thank you for your interest in our web site.

Sincerely,



DG F - Information to the public
Secretariat General of the Council of the European Union
Tel.: +32-2-281.5650
Fax.: +32-2-281 4977
e-mail: public.info@consilium.europa.eu

For PDF files, a free viewer (Acrobat Reader) is available from the Adobe
Systems' World-Wide Web Site.
The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
Council of the European Union.


William Hamilton (1/01/2007 16:51):
> >Dear Sir/Madam,
> >
> >Can you please explain the extreme irony that has resulted in the
> >Council first imposing millions of euros in fines upon Microsoft for
> >their lack of interoperability and then the decision to use the
> >Microsoft-proprietry WMV format for streaming Council meetings over the
> >Internet?
> >
> >Surely it would have been better to use a more open format so that
> >citizens who chose to run an alternative operating system such as Linux
> >are able to watch meetings?

[mykalreborn]

that's because the open source still doesn't count as a good source of financial income, at least for some people from the top of the piramid. why should the EU support a growing comunity of people who don't like to buy stuff? that would just be the beggining of people realising that money are just a piece of paper, and that we have been robbed of our possesion a long time ago. and before you start pointing at me like at some kind of weirdo take a look:link (http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signsguide.htm).
dare you see the truth for what it is?

[lyceum]

Rather than sign a petition, I decided to email them direct considering that my taxes pays their wages.

They were kind enough to reply :)

A bit of a cop out so I sent them another email stating that this doesn't quite address the fact that they are using a closed source, proprietry format that is inaccessable to many people.

So... are they switching to Mac???

:-k

[kd7swh]

I have paid for my codecs thank you....

I am one of the few people who paid for the mp3 codec. I have also paid for my Microsoft codecs too. As much as I don't like them, I need the codecs. If they sue me for not using their operating system with the codecs that I paid for I'll go to court over it. That sounds like fun.

[mykalreborn]

I have paid for my codecs thank you....

I am one of the few people who paid for the mp3 codec. I have also paid for my Microsoft codecs too. As much as I don't like them, I need the codecs. If they sue me for not using their operating system with the codecs that I paid for I'll go to court over it. That sounds like fun.

what do you mean you paid for the codecs?

[MrHorus]

I have also paid for my Microsoft codecs too.


Microsoft don't sell codecs.

What Microsoft do is liscence them to you as PART of a Windows EULA and I believe that to extract them and use them as part of a Linux installation contravenes the liscence that exists between yourself and Microsoft, hence the problem.

[xyz]

I copied the mms url out of the page source and pasted it into vlc and it opened the stream just fine.

vlc 0.8.6 supports wmv 9.

you can try it yourself.

mms://ceu.streampower.be/ceu/archive/CEU_PRESS_CONFERENCE/ceu_video1_en_20061221_573.wmv

I had tried that when the thread started but it didn't work for me.

[Magnes]

Newest MPlayer should also read wmv9 without w32codecs.

[rowanparker]

Newest MPlayer should also read wmv9 without w32codecs.
How though, isn't that illegal?

[mostwanted]

How though, isn't that illegal?

Only in countries where they have software patents (e.g. the US). An open source reverse-engineering is not illegal in most places I'm aware of, the illegal part would be violating one of those stupid patents on software algorithms.

[rowanparker]

Only in countries where they have software patents (e.g. the US). An open source reverse-engineering is not illegal in most places I'm aware of, the illegal part would be violating one of those stupid patents on software algorithms.
Ah right, much clearer, thanks :)

[Daveski]

Alarming news !
""The Council of the EU has a streaming service so that we can watch its meetings — but the service can only be accessed by Mac or MS Windows users.""

Article: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/31/1950225

Please sign the petition.... (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/eu_streaming_service_for_everybody) so we can force EU to support open source multimedia formats !
We must defend democracy.

Wow, I visited the FAQ again and it now says:

On which platforms can I view the live streaming media service of the Council of the European Union?
The live streaming media service of the Council of the European Union can be viewed on Microsoft Windows and Macintosh platforms.

The open source community can follow the public events in the Council, broadcasted through video streaming on the Internet, via means of an open source player like VLC which is available at no cost on the Internet and which is running on several platforms as e.g. MS WINDOWS as well as several LINUX distributions.

Is this a victory?