Windows screwup forces Ubuntu shift

[newbie2]

So, unable to transfer the install easily, unable to legally use a different CD of Windows with my legally purchased key, and unable to install the drivers with the one I had, I was left with only one option. The machine was put in place Saturday running Ubuntu. The owner of the chain was informed of it, why it was done, and what the ramifications, mainly stability and security, were.

Luckily, he is a smart man, and from this point on, Linux will be the OS of choice on all his servers, it is cheaper to buy, cheaper to install, and much more secure.
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=36635
:p :rolleyes:

[BoyOfDestiny]

http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=36635
:p :rolleyes:

Haha, funny thing though, I did have something similar happen with some home machines. 2 desktops became ubuntu boxes. I have plenty of legit keys for XP, but the 2 install discs I found didn't work with them...

So well, I was happy to put Ubuntu instead. Much less work getting it up and running on those boxes (after install + drivers, visiting individual pages for OOo, GIMP, VLC, privoxy, firefox, clamwin anti-virus, some sort of firewall, some sort of cd burning app, activate/validate XP, click click click...)

But anyway for the article, don't know if that would cause a shift for many except those who have to install windows from scratch (and don't want to pirate it if they misplace the original discs, since one key seems tied to one disc...)

[PriceChild]

*smiles*

[PatrickMay16]

So well, I was happy to put Ubuntu instead. Much less work getting it up and running on those boxes (after install + drivers, visiting individual pages for OOo, GIMP, VLC, privoxy, firefox, clamwin anti-virus, some sort of firewall, some sort of cd burning app, activate/validate XP, click click click...)

Wow man!!!!
That's pretty interesting. I have a question, though; if that's the case, why were you going to install Windows XP on those two machines in the first place? Just wondering.

Heh !! Heh !!

[RAV TUX]

Windows screwup forces Ubuntu shift

A match made in hell

By Charlie Demerjian (javascript:__doPostBack('article_body$lnkEmailFor m','')): Sunday 31 December 2006, 11:24

YOU NEVER QUITE wrap your head around how anti-consumer Microsoft's policies are until they bite you in the bum. Add in the customer antagonistic policies of its patsies, HP in this case, and vendors like Promise, and you have quite a recipe for pain. Guess what I did today? It started out quite simply, a client needed to set up a small branch office, something I do almost every week. Four workstation and a repository for files, occasional backups, and a shared printer is all they would need, nothing special. Five HP 5100s, a printer, a Promise TX2300 with mirrored drives and a DVD-R was all I needed. That was the easy part.
Out came the anaemic 40GB drive from one HP, and in when the Promise controller and two WD 200GB SATA drives. The TX2300 was a snap to set up, the hardest part was rebooting 10 times until I caught that CTRL-F is the key to get into the card BIOS. A minute later, the RAID was built and it was time to restore the OS from the CDs. Two thumbs up to Promise here, it really could not be easier.
This is where the pain began. Microsoft has a policy where the vendors can't ship you a Windows CD so instead they have to send you a series of restore CDs. These option-free exercises in rookie programming mistakes are a shining example of what is wrong with the industry. HP, like the weak willed jellyfishes that they are, went along with this plan rather than stand up for the people paying them.
The problem? The #*(&$ers at HP made it so the brain dead restore scripts would not see any hardware other than the parts they shipped, and it would not recognise the Promise controller. Fair enough, it isn't HP's duty to recognise everything, that would be well beyond anything I expected. You just press F6 and install the drivers manually, it gives you the standard Windows prompt there.
Looking past the problem of the machine not having a floppy, you can easily add one for the initial install, things got ugly quick. The problem? Those weasels at Captain Junior Spy Central disabled the F6 driver install on their restore CD! There is no Windows CD so you can do it manually, you either use theirs or have your own copy.
If you have a copy of XP to use, guess what? The key that comes with the HP box is restricted to the version of Windows on the restore CD. Vanilla XP will not work, nor will any of the copies I have lying around. Your choice, use only HP hardware or buy a copy of XP. A big FU to MS and HP for this little ray of sunshine.
Money grubbing and brain dead tactics aside, I figured I could boot from the Promise CD and possibly manually format the drives and dump the install CDs to the HD. That trick will often work to get you by initial unrecognised drives. That is when I learned half of the problems with Promise, the CD it provides is not bootable and contains nothing resembling a tool. Sparse would be a step up from what it offers.
Biting back my fervent desire to throw this mess out of a window, get a gun, and go to Redmond, I put in the original HD and booted into it to see if there were any interesting tools to help my plight. I tried to install the drivers and noticed the second problem, the #($&#ing Promise CD doesn't have drivers on it! No, I am not kidding, they ship the card with a CD, but that CD has no drivers on it! Honestly.
If you click the install drivers option, it prompts you to put a disk in the (nonexistent) A: drive to make a driver disk. There is no option to unpack, no option to put it in any other location, you are just screwed. Manually browsing the CD comes up with the same programs the moronic installer offers you. A: drive or the highway. In this day and age, there is no excuse for not shipping a driver with hardware, Promise really screwed this up.
So, unable to transfer the install easily, unable to legally use a different CD of Windows with my legally purchased key, and unable to install the drivers with the one I had, I was left with only one option. The machine was put in place Saturday running Ubuntu. The owner of the chain was informed of it, why it was done, and what the ramifications, mainly stability and security, were.
Luckily, he is a smart man, and from this point on, Linux will be the OS of choice on all his servers, it is cheaper to buy, cheaper to install, and much more secure. Desktops are under evaluation, but Microsoft lost this chain for sure on the server side. If it doesn't think their brain dead policies are costing them money, I am proof positive that they are, and I am willing to bet I am far from alone. µ
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=36635

simply reality.;)

[hikaricore]

I swear I saw this article like a month ago... hmm... must have been someone else. :)

[maniac_X]

I can 100% understand the anger of the person who wrote the article with regard to HP.

First "PC" I ever bought was a HP. It was also my last. God what a nightmare. Poor customer service is one thing but then you realize too late the trap they have set for you and your frustration. Restore CDs are usually the bane of anyone who wants to improve their system. It is because of HP that I began building my own boxes so in a way I guess I owe them thanks for that. :twisted:

[kevinf311]

First "PC" I ever bought was a HP. It was also my last. ... It is because of HP that I began building my own boxes so in a way I guess I owe them thanks for that. :twisted:

Cosign on that! (PS awesome icon! C & H rules!)

I got a store built HP desktop when I went away to college. It had XP Home on it. Our school required that we use the anti-virus/firewall that they had a volume license to. So, i get my computer hooked up, surf to the IT site in Internet Explorer (no time to get firefox yet). Computer shuts down. ... O...K... reboot, get back to the site. System is noticeably slower, download the tools. I decide to give them a run. Oh good, I have contracted MyDoom. ](*,)

The tools from the school could only quarantine it. I went through several options on actually getting rid of it. Including the HP support I paid for. "Download a virus scanner" :neutral: Thanks.

That's how I ended up with XP Pro. Easiest way to get rid of the problem? Nuke the drive.

Fast forward to the next semester. A CD explodes in the CD-RW drive. No biggee, computer's under warranty. They'll replace the drive. *buzzer* Wrong. The send me through online support. I wish I still had the e-mail. Something along the lines of "Make sure the drive is connected" and "Is there a '?' in the hardware manager next to the device?" :neutral: "The device is mechanically broken" I told them. "I'm requesting a replacement part," they wanted nothing of it.

Solution? Asked for a DVD-RW for Christmas, since the OS was no longer HP supplied, I just pretended the computer wasn't either. I still use that DVD-RW today, along with the floppy drive, card reader, DVD-ROM, and at least one of the sticks of RAM.

Hmm, maybe it was the ghost of that computer that caused me to have 1 power supply failure and 3 motherboard failures last year #-o Heh, at least I got a "Small Business Credit Card" application from Tiger Direct out of it :p

[RAV TUX]

don't knock HP too much...

heres why....


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[Sef]

don't knock HP too much...

Also their printers work great with linux.

[kevinf311]

don't knock HP too much...



Oh, don't get me wrong, HP is a fine company. My only qualm was with their customer support. Like I said, I still use most of the components from that computer in my set-up now because they still work great after all of these years. It's just a different case, processor/motherboard, video card, and hard drive (I misplaced the HP one :rolleyes: ). I also have one of their all-in-one printers which is a dream to use. I figured that they were open-friendly when the printer was so easy to set up in Ubuntu (easier than XP for sure).

HP- quality hardware and drivers, just pained by the all too common customer support problems (definitely not limited to HP).

[OldTimeTech]

I've always found HP printers to be GREAT.

But as a tech, thier pc's do definitely have some problems and the biggest one is being proprietary....other than that .....go to the top comment ;))))

[PriceChild]

I still use most of the components from that computer in my set-up now because they still work great after all of these years. It's just a different case, processor/motherboard, video card, and hard driveErm... so you're only using the cdrom drives, RAM and PSU? :P

[Dr. C]

The issue here is not limited to HP. It is a problem with any OEM version of Windows XP that is purchased from a large brand name hardware distributer. It is not the first time I have seen this issue on these forums mostly related to users who wish to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows XP

Microsoft blocked activation of XP keys from large OEM's starting in 2004 or 2005. The version that comes on the restore cd is locked to the bios and does not need activation. The trouble with this is that if the retore CD cannot be used for any reason one cannot use a vanilla XP and enter the key that came with the computer. No end of trouble if something goes wrong. OEM versions of Windows XP that are obtained from a small retailer that built the computer or by an end users that built thier computer are not affected by this.

The moral of the story is: Do not buy a computer with Windows XP pre installed from a major brand name, unless of course you plan to wipe that hard drive, install Ubuntu on it and not use Windows on that system!

[OldTimeTech]

Yes, I like the idea............DO NOT USE WINDOWS LOL!!!

[kevinf311]

Erm... so you're only using the cdrom drives, RAM and PSU? :P

Crap, you're on to me! :-$
I would have used the hard drive if it hadn't disappeared :p

The multi-card reader still kicks it without any trouble. I guess what I wanted to say was that the only problem I had with the HP computer was from the support people, other than that I have no regrets from buying from HP.


[edit] Ooh! I know what happened to the motherboard/processor from that computer! I built my friends a lightweight server. That was like three weeks ago (or whenever the week that had Dec 8th was :rolleyes: )

[OldTimeTech]

At least you used it all ;)

[lyceum]

My favorite quote from a HP tech: "Hardware, that is like software, only more difficult, yes?"

And yes, that tech was talking to me, it is a sad but true story.

](*,)

[kevinf311]

My favorite quote from a HP tech: "Hardware, that is like software, only more difficult, yes?"

And yes, that tech was talking to me, it is a sad but true story.

](*,)

Oh man, I really hope that tech was attempting to make a joke. I would have sat paralyzed in fear if it had been for serious. At least with my e-mail correspondences I could give them the benefit of the doubt with them misunderstanding my problem.

[kevinf311]

At least you used it all ;)

Aye, my friend and her fiancé wanted a computer that they could run windows programs on (they both have Apple notebooks) and use to host family web pages/files.

We were going to use the old HP stuff for our server, but we decided to cannibalize the media computer that we never use instead. There was actually very little downtime on the HP supplied hardware, just wasn't used specifically by me.

[Johnsie]

I use an HP server... It works great except it's a bit outdated now. TBH I'd be reluctant to use any other companie for my servers because the last two HP's i've used have been very reliable.

[lyceum]

Oh man, I really hope that tech was attempting to make a joke. I would have sat paralyzed in fear if it had been for serious. At least with my e-mail correspondences I could give them the benefit of the doubt with them misunderstanding my problem.

No, he was not joking. Once I explained to him what hardware was, he told me I would need a screwdriver to find out what was inside and (get this) explained to me, in detail, how to close the lid and flip my laptop upside down and take the screws out. :-k Thank goodness I called the right guy for the job! (that last part was sarcasm)

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

[Ice Paladin]

Microsoft and OEM and it's partners like HP, what do you expect? Ubuntu saved a life...

[AgenT]

So well, I was happy to put Ubuntu instead. Much less work getting it up and running on those boxes (after install + drivers, visiting individual pages for OOo, GIMP, VLC, privoxy, firefox, clamwin anti-virus, some sort of firewall, some sort of cd burning app, activate/validate XP, click click click...)
I was not aware that Windows was so bare. In fact, come to think of it I have not done an install on my personal computer for years. Instead, I have just been upgrading from Hoary Beta on. Before Ubuntu I was on a different distribution doing the same for a few years. But I did move files over to a new computer that I bought. So two installs in many years. But none due to software problems and both unavoidable. Cheers!

[kevinf311]

No, he was not joking. Once I explained to him what hardware was, he told me I would need a screwdriver to find out what was inside and (get this) explained to me, in detail, how to close the lid and flip my laptop upside down and take the screws out. :-k Thank goodness I called the right guy for the job! (that last part was sarcasm)

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)


Wow.
Just, wow. That blows my mind.