Dolphin, new file-manager in KDE 4 [Archive]

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mostwanted

December 28th, 2006, 09:11 PM

ComplexNumber

December 28th, 2006, 09:15 PM

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2006/12/on-oxygen-on-dolphin.html

Apparently the KDE guys are making a new simple file-manager (more akin to Nautilus maybe) to replace Konqueror in KDE 4, although Konqueror will still be there to suit the power users of course.
about time too. there was no need for konqueror to be a swiss army knife that did everything, but only averagely, at best, and with too many crashes and poorly written kparts. this is definitely a step in the right direction for kde.

BWF89

December 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM

mostwanted

December 28th, 2006, 09:21 PM

KDE is a little overbearing I agree but is the response to that to dumb it down to be more like the Gnome people? Why not just keep Konqueror and hide the more advanced features unless the user specifically turns them on?

Perhaps Dolphin will be exactly that? Just like Nautilus has the simple spatial view and the more cluttered browser view.

GeneralZod

December 28th, 2006, 09:27 PM

KDE is a little overbearing I agree but is the response to that to dumb it down to be more like the Gnome people? Why not just keep Konqueror and hide the more advanced features unless the user specifically turns them on?

Konqueror is designed to be a kparts viewer with an emphasis on both the file manager parts and the web browser parts, making it an innately complex application - "hiding" the complexity without completely ditching one of the two aspects is very hard indeed.

Plus, Konqueror will still remain, and there's no reason at all why Dolphin should be "dumbed-down" - in fact, its exclusion of non-file-management related features will mean that there is more "room" to add additional, advanced file management features.

I've been toying for a while now with the idea of making a khtml-based KDE application that deals solely with webbrowsing, giving it "essentials" (e.g. Undo Close Tab) and extensibility right from the outset, but I doubt I'll ever get around to it :rolleyes:

ComplexNumber

December 28th, 2006, 09:35 PM

I've been toying for a while now with the idea of making a khtml-based KDE application that deals solely with webbrowsing, giving it "essentials" (e.g. Undo Close Tab) and extensibility right from the outset, but I doubt I'll ever get around to it
thats the spirit! the unix spirit, that is. make each application focus on one job so that it does only that job, and does it well.

fuscia

December 28th, 2006, 10:12 PM

i'm liking dolphin. it's to konqueror what thunar is to nautilus, roughly speaking.

BWF89

December 28th, 2006, 11:07 PM

there's no reason at all why Dolphin should be "dumbed-down" - in fact, its exclusion of non-file-management related features will mean that there is more "room" to add additional, advanced file management features.
If that's the case Dolphin isn't such a bad idea.

lzfy

December 28th, 2006, 11:22 PM

I hope they put some more view options in Dolphin. Konqueror is very limited compared to Explorer on that part.

darkhatter

December 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM

more good news about kde 4, just keep it coming. I want to here more about the built in 3d desktop and indexing stuff thats coming

esaym

January 4th, 2007, 08:59 PM

I wonder if this will ever come to dapper?

jclmusic

January 4th, 2007, 10:24 PM

that's good news, i was never that keen on konqueror, unnessecarily large and buggy for me.

GameManK

January 5th, 2007, 01:09 AM

I hope they put some more view options in Dolphin. Konqueror is very limited compared to Explorer on that part.

When I click my view mode box I get 10 view modes (2 I think are nondefault). What more do you want??

If I remember correctly, Explorer has 4.

esaym

January 5th, 2007, 03:42 PM

When I click my view mode box I get 10 view modes (2 I think are nondefault). What more do you want??

If I remember correctly, Explorer has 4.

Its the fact that it doesn't save the views per folder like windows. So depending on what folder I am in I have to use one view mode and once I go to another folder I have to change it to something else.

GeneralZod

January 5th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Its the fact that it doesn't save the views per folder like windows. So depending on what folder I am in I have to use one view mode and once I go to another folder I have to change it to something else.

Have you tried Settings->Save View Changes per Folder ... ?

esaym

January 5th, 2007, 09:24 PM

Have you tried Settings->Save View Changes per Folder ... ?

Hmm I didn't have that option. I looked into it and found: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=11190.msg45453

I edited my files accordingly and now I have that option. It is still not what I want. The only thing it seems to save is the view, not how the files are sorted. I want the icon view (with previews) sorted from oldest files to newest. If I set it that way, it will globally set every folder to be sorted from oldest to newest. I can however change the view to detailed list view and then arrange the columns by date and it will stay arranged that way (and only in that folder) but I was really wanting the icon view. Hmmn

Thanks for the info though.

GeneralZod

January 5th, 2007, 09:26 PM

Hmm I didn't have that option. I looked into it and found: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=11190.msg45453

Thanks for the info though.

That's a shame; and no problem :)

Erik Trybom

January 5th, 2007, 09:38 PM

There's already an excellent file manager in KDE. It's called Krusader.

esaym

January 5th, 2007, 09:55 PM

There's already an excellent file manager in KDE. It's called Krusader.

Thats new to me. I looked it up and it seems to have alot of features but it is twin panel http://krusader.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php Is it possible to just use it as a single panel?

esaym

January 6th, 2007, 12:52 AM

Ok I tried it. I'm not too crazy about it. Just seems to be one view mode. Reminds me of WinSCP. Thanks for the info though.

esaym

January 6th, 2007, 01:18 AM

Well I don't know what the heck just happened but after I uninstalled Krusader my konqueror gui looked like this: http://la.gg/thmb/konquerorglitch.png (http://la.gg/v/konquerorglitch.png)

Not sure what caused it but I am glad I backed everything up. I think I will stop SCREWING with stuff now:-&

GameManK

January 6th, 2007, 01:47 AM

der_joachim

January 6th, 2007, 09:57 AM

Ok I tried it. I'm not too crazy about it. Just seems to be one view mode. Reminds me of WinSCP. Thanks for the info though.

You're talking about Krusader, right? I do not particularly like it, either. I really hate the numerous crashes. It has its uses, though. Sometimes, I use Krusader in combination with a diff client like kdiff to compare source trees.

I tried the dolphin version from the repos and it looks and feels fast. I might start to like it. :)

total wormage

January 6th, 2007, 12:35 PM

i ran Dolphin a while ago, because Konqueror nearly killed me...
liked it more than Konqueror! nice and simple, you don't have to search where to look :p

this too makes me more confident in KDE4 and its team :D
:KS

weatherman

January 6th, 2007, 12:53 PM

now we really need a web-browsing-only kde app

steven8

January 6th, 2007, 12:56 PM

I like Konqueror, but I'll give Dolphin a spin.

rai4shu2

January 6th, 2007, 12:57 PM

So with Firefox and Dolphin, there is no more need for Konqueror?

zugu

January 6th, 2007, 01:23 PM

Providing an native KDE alternative to Konqueror's file management abilities is a great step in the process of switching to KDE. At least for me.

Now if only they could split that monolithic "start" menu...

mirshafie

January 16th, 2007, 03:03 AM

I think this is a really bad idea. Can't see why it's necessary. Dolphin has been available for everyone, and in the Ubuntu repos, for a long time. If you hate Konqueror's whoop-*** features so much, why didn't you just do a

apt-cache search kde file manager? There are usually altarnatives for everything, you know. :???:

I like Dolphin, and I like Krusader. They are both really cool. Dolphin is nice mainly because it is so fast. But my choice is still Konqueror, and I don't think KDE needs two pre-installed file managers.

Furthermore...

Providing an native KDE alternative to Konqueror's file management abilities is a great step in the process of switching to KDE. At least for me.

Now if only they could split that monolithic "start" menu...

I hope you know that you can split that "monolithic" start menu by yourself? Right click on the panel and Add Applet. Then do some menu editing if you need.

And...

Well I don't know what the heck just happened but after I uninstalled Krusader my konqueror gui looked like this: http://la.gg/thmb/konquerorglitch.png (http://la.gg/v/konquerorglitch.png)

Not sure what caused it but I am glad I backed everything up. I think I will stop SCREWING with stuff now:-&

It's strange if something in Konqueror changed just because you removed Krusader, but I can't see what's wrong with your Konqueror screenshot. If it's the toolbars, just drag-n-drop them until they look the way you want, or right click them and setup which toolbars you want, and add/remove buttons.

ffi

January 16th, 2007, 09:30 AM

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2006/12/on-oxygen-on-dolphin.html

Apparently the KDE guys are making a new simple file-manager (more akin to Nautilus maybe) to replace Konqueror in KDE 4, although Konqueror will still be there to suit the power users of course.
Oh my god, I hope they are not going to turn KDE into the complicated unusable mess Gnome is. Konqueror is just quite simply the best filebrowser from any DE.

maniacmusician

January 16th, 2007, 09:43 AM

So with Firefox and Dolphin, there is no more need for Konqueror?
I beg to differ, Firefox is a horrible browsing app for people that like their tabs, and lots of em. I've gotten it to gobble up to 500MBs of memory! Hate this app, but there's no viable alternative with similar features that these extensions provide.

maniacmusician

January 16th, 2007, 09:46 AM

Dolphin's alright. I like the tree browsing structure that I can use with konqueror, makes my life a lot easier.

Erunno

January 16th, 2007, 09:50 AM

ffi

January 16th, 2007, 09:59 AM

Well, I wouldn't mind a sane, simple default UI which targets the non-technical end-user. But it should also provide the options to customize it until it satisfies the needs of more experienced users instead of hiding advanvced options in a registry ripoff. Well, here's hoping that the file management in Konqueror won't be neglected in the future (see Aaron's comment below the blog) due to code sharing.

You could argue Word or Excell's default interface are insane and too complicated but they are great for new users, to easily find the most common functions, the same is true for Konqueror.

BTW, I also like the browsing capabilities of Konqueror though it's not my primary browser, it is my secundary one but that's mainly due to lack of rocker mouse gestures....

zugu

January 16th, 2007, 10:20 AM

I hope you know that you can split that "monolithic" start menu by yourself? Right click on the panel and Add Applet. Then do some menu editing if you need.

I'd really like a Gnome-like split: Applications, Places, System. This makes a lot more sense than having one "do-it-all" menu. I don't use KDE (yet) so I'd be very interested to know if such a split is possible.

Now to go back on topic, I have seen some comments here against including Dolphin as a default KDE program. I would like to ask, what would be wrong in this? If you love Konqueror so much, think about the others who dislike it and would choose Dolphin anytime over it. More people would start to tolerate KDE, maybe even like it. And I assume this is a good thing.

Michael_aust

January 16th, 2007, 10:24 AM

I do the documentation for dolphin at present, although I have stopped now seeing as we have out out the last release for Kde 3. I will begin updating the documentation for the Kde4 release once the majority of the new features etc to be included in Dolphin are present. This should be within a few months time. I also cannot start updating the documentation until Kde 4 puts out a alpha/beta release rather then these pre-alpha releases.

As I understand it, the current stable version of Dolphin has been pretty much ported over to qt4/Kde 4 now. So it should be usable in those respects, but the the subversion is probobly broken now due to aeron and peter experimenting with the code.

Dolphin is hopefully going to be included with the Kde extras as far as I know. So hopefully this means that it should be included by default in some distributions. Dolphin WONT be replacing konqueror for file management. It will just be an official kde component that is optional (if its included in kde extras), in the same way that amarok is an extras component, but does not replace juk (but distributions usualy do replace juk with amarok, but thats there decision, its not made by kde).

ffi

January 16th, 2007, 10:24 AM

v8YKxgHe

January 16th, 2007, 01:54 PM

3/4 of Linux desktop users are already KDE users, I guess they chose KDE because it's not Gnome. Don't alienate 3/4 of desktop users to try to convince 1/4...

ffi using gnome/hig designed apps ](*,)
ffi using kde :-D

That's your opinion and are just plucking random numbers out of the sky. Don't turn this into _another_ KDE vs Gnome thread.

GeneralZod

January 16th, 2007, 01:59 PM

That's your opinion and are just plucking random numbers out of the sky. Don't turn this into _another_ KDE vs Gnome thread.

Agreed - those numbers are way off, and I for one am getting fed up with promising threads being folded into the gigantic mess that is the KDE vs GNOME thread because someone can't resist posting unsubstantiated, flamebait comments.

maniacmusician

January 16th, 2007, 01:59 PM

yeah, please :)

Is there a way to get the tree-structured sidebar view for navigation? Or is the whole point of Dolphin that it doesn't have anything like that?

zugu

January 16th, 2007, 02:12 PM

Are there any screenshots, somewhere?

Erunno

January 16th, 2007, 02:16 PM

http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=40491

Mind you, these are screenshots from the current KDE 3.5 version and since the KDE team is developing HIG for KDE 4 there's no guarantee that it will still look that way in the future.

ffi

January 16th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Agreed - those numbers are way off, and I for one am getting fed up with promising threads being folded into the gigantic mess that is the KDE vs GNOME thread because someone can't resist posting unsubstantiated, flamebait comments.

Maybe a little bit off but not by much:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1037

GeneralZod

January 16th, 2007, 02:29 PM

Maybe a little bit off but not by much:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1037

Hmmm ... I could've sworn I saw a more recent poll from the same site that gave KDE only a very slight edge over GNOME (~37% vs 35%-ish). Very well; I apologise :)

Edit:

Aha - it was from a different site:

http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi?view=archive&id=0821200617613

ffi

January 16th, 2007, 03:03 PM

Aha - it was from a different site:

http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi?view=archive&id=0821200617613

Different poll question though :p your includes desktop enviroments AND window managers. My DE is KDE, my windowmanager Beryl....

I really tried Gnome and tried to like it but the HIG makes using it so frustrating. When I first installed Linux, I really didn't know about KDE vs Gnome and installed both and found Gnome to be very difficult and frustrating and KDE a joy to use. Simple and elegant even easier to use than XP, which I was used to, all those neat little feature there in easy to click toolbars. And all the stuff I didn't want I removed but the stuff that wasn't there I really never tried. A shame because I think Konqueror has another million really cook features. Maybe Nautilus has them too but they are probably to well hidden otherwise it won't be useable.

I really really really hope KDE won't implement the HIG, just a good smooth artistic theme and icons....because those are the one thing I don't like about KDE: Plastik and the crystal icons....

fuscia

January 16th, 2007, 04:29 PM

i just looked up 'HIG' (never heard of it before) and i have to say 'yuck'. things that suit all can often please none.

v8YKxgHe

January 16th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Different poll question though :p your includes desktop enviroments AND window managers. My DE is KDE, my windowmanager Beryl....

Actually, the poll you linked does not say anything about what users are using. The question clearly states "Desktop Environment of the Year" which does _not_ mean "Which Desktop Environment are you using?". For example I could be using Gnome but I could think KDE is the DE of the year, which is what the poll asked for.

You can also not base what users are using the most by one poll on one site. To get a more accurate result you will need to ask the same question on many websites.

rai4shu2

January 16th, 2007, 05:28 PM

Why are talking about Gnome here? This is a KDE thread.

mirshafie

January 16th, 2007, 08:45 PM

Dolphin is hopefully going to be included with the Kde extras as far as I know. So hopefully this means that it should be included by default in some distributions. Dolphin WONT be replacing konqueror for file management. It will just be an official kde component that is optional (if its included in kde extras), in the same way that amarok is an extras component, but does not replace juk (but distributions usualy do replace juk with amarok, but thats there decision, its not made by kde).

That's good. Dolphin is definitely a promising application, and it is already good enough for that kind of recognition. But it would be really weird to put Dolphin beside Konqueror in the default, stripped down KDE package.

I don't really understand this Power User vs. Sorry n00b talk. I know "Power Users" that would be much happier with Dolphin as their primary GUI file manager, because of how they have set up their desktop. These people do most of their real file managing in the console, but on the few occasions that they use a GUI, Dolphin would be sufficient, it's fast, and it does have a cleaner interface than Konqueror.

By contrast Konqueror is EASY to use if you just check out all the settings and menus. File managing is much like writing a document (or really any other task that can be very simple or very complicated). If you don't care much about it, a decent office application can't even replace MS Notepad. But if you do care to look through the menus of Oo or KOffice, you will realize that it's hard to compare it's field of usage to an application like KWrite.

I'd really like a Gnome-like split: Applications, Places, System. This makes a lot more sense than having one "do-it-all" menu. I don't use KDE (yet) so I'd be very interested to know if such a split is possible.

If you want a similar kind of Menu in KDE, do the following:
1. Right click on your panel (Unlock it if you had Locked it previously)
2. Choose "Add Applet to Panel..."
3. Add the "System Places" and "Settings" Applets, see also "Quick File Browser" and "Network folders"
4. Right click the new Applets in the Panel and select Move, then move and place them where you want them.
5. If you like, you can edit the K-Menu by clicking the K, and then right clicking on the menu.

I tried this approach some time back, since i found the Gnome style menu quite clever, but I have abandoned it now. Instead, I have a System Settings shortcut in the Quickluancher (which icon size I have set to 12 px on my 24 px Panel, so it's on two rows). I always have a Konqueror window open for web browsing, and the first tab is a split view with system:/, hda and hdb. (You can split views in Konqueror by hitting Ctrl+Shift+L).

Some Firefox vs. Konqueror flamebait

Firefox is a slow, memory eating bastard with none of the basic functionality you should expect from a modern Web browser. Really now. Anyone that's a Firefox user should try, I mean really try to use either Konqueror or Opera. If you're not convinced just by the functionality of these browsers, type top in your terminal and see for yourself what Firefox is like.