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View Full Version : Microsoft does it again



zsh
December 18th, 2006, 05:58 PM
hey! check this out

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196601781

loserboy
December 18th, 2006, 07:17 PM
thats messed up, i didnt know about that

raul_
December 18th, 2006, 07:20 PM
I can't see the point...

ubuntu27
December 18th, 2006, 07:35 PM
yeah, there they (MS) goes again....

DarkN00b
December 18th, 2006, 07:41 PM
This is fine with me. Let Microsoft keep up crap like this and people will start looking for alternatives...

reiatzu
December 18th, 2006, 07:43 PM
lol darkn00b, Microsoft is pathetic, this isn't unexpected to be frank

DarkN00b
December 18th, 2006, 07:49 PM
lol darkn00b, Microsoft is pathetic, this isn't unexpected to be frank

Yeah, they'll continue to lock-down and DRM everything until all you'll get with Windows is a flashy GUI frontend for a lot of buggy virus prone apps, with no access "under the hood". I forsee something like a "home folder" with absolutely no access outside of that folder. Anyhow, let 'em go at it, I'll keep using Linux.

sloggerkhan
December 18th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Man, creepy that is.

raul_
December 18th, 2006, 08:02 PM
I still can't see the point...

SonicSteve
December 18th, 2006, 08:03 PM
This is fine with me. Let Microsoft keep up crap like this and people will start looking for alternatives...

I'm becoming one of these people you talk about. The more I become aware of the Software landscape stuff like this just makes my hair stand on end. I'm becoming increasingly agrevated by this kind of monopolization. It's a like a bully who see's a threat and then tries to make being a threat illegal so he can be the biggest bully forever.

Money and greed friends will make a man do anything.

Ptero-4
December 18th, 2006, 08:32 PM
I said it and say it again. I won't use Waste, ever.

RudolfMDLT
December 18th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I love it!

1) Another reason for MS and all it's directors to go to hell

2) Like DarkN00b said, people will start looking for something else

3) M$ just gave a couple of smart-*** kids a reason to go cracking away at something that cost them 1000's of Dollars to develop and in the end I'm sure you'll be able to download an app that cracks this.

It's just one company fighting against an Army of people that can't wait to screw them!

Goodluck to them!

raul_
December 18th, 2006, 09:21 PM
I just liked Ptero-4's signature :D

SonicSteve
December 19th, 2006, 12:30 AM
I love it!

1) Another reason for MS and all it's directors to go to hell

2) Like DarkN00b said, people will start looking for something else

3) M$ just gave a couple of smart-*** kids a reason to go cracking away at something that cost them 1000's of Dollars to develop and in the end I'm sure you'll be able to download an app that cracks this.

It's just one company fighting against an Army of people that can't wait to screw them!

Goodluck to them!

I don't think that cursing them is a great response. I would just love to see a corporation act with ethics and integrity. I don't even want to screw them, nor am I waiting for a chance. Having said that I doubt highly that they will reverse direction on this.

Sef
December 19th, 2006, 01:17 AM
Best way to get back at Microsoft is not use their products.

samjh
December 19th, 2006, 01:21 AM
Just another reason why I've switched to Linux.

How the heck does IRM protect people's information anyway? Especially given that those who would want to do serious damage with confidential business or government information will most likely use illegal methods, and will not be trumpeting their actions.

SonicSteve
December 19th, 2006, 01:26 AM
Just another reason why I've switched to Linux.

How the heck does IRM protect people's information anyway? Especially given that those who would want to do serious damage with confidential business or government information will most likely use illegal methods, and will not be trumpeting their actions.

I don't think this is about protecting the user. It's about protecting Microsoft's strangle hold on the market. They're hoping that if they make it difficult for people to user other Office Suites and still use the Microsoft office document formats that the people will just abandon those other options.

Bully on the playground boys and girls. Bullies just grow up to be bigger bullies. Some see the light others never do.

RudolfMDLT
December 19th, 2006, 08:08 AM
SonicSteve,

I didn't curse them - I just wished them a very unpleasent after life. It was more a scornful joke than a curse! ;)

I used to visit cracksites a lot when I first got the internet - there are a lot of people out there writing cracks. Ussually acompanieng the crack is a message from the group whom wrote the crack. Some of these groups are writing cracks purly because they want software to be free. I don't believe that there cause is very just nor that their ethics are perfect but the fact is that they do exist and that they will try and crack anything that they believe is worthy cracking or breaking into....

mozetti
December 19th, 2006, 10:14 AM
Wow. You all bought into that piece of schlock "reporting" hook, line, and sinker. The author bet (correctly) that the anti-MS title would lead people to his half-cocked conclusion despite an unconvincing argument. Before I get started, I think this whole Trusted Computing initiative is crap and really, really bad.

However, the IRM the author is talking about isn't nearly the harbinger of doom the author wants you to believe. It's a real feature that corporate/government customers really want. My first counter, and really the only one needed to debunk the entire article, is that protecting your Office files with IRM is optional. So, basically IRM allows the person/company that creates a document to restrict how it is used by others -- there is nothing inherently wrong with this -- and if the creator doesn't want to restrict use of the file, then they don't have to use IRM.

Secondly, the guy is all over the place using buzzwords to lead you down his unproven path -- DMCA, IRM, DRM, and Trusted computing. He talks about all of them, but DRM & IRM are pretty much the same thing for his argument and his discussion of the DMCA in the intro doesn't relate at all to his argurment. So basically you have IRM & Trusted Computing, and the rest is fluff to get you all spun up in the anti-MS hate.


But Information Rights Management (IRM), first introduced in Office 2003, goes further -- it doesn't just control who can open the document, it also controls what they can do with it afterwards.

The horror!! Customers actually want this. Encryption isn't enough when you consider legal and financial documents are shared/distributed amongnst many parties. You want to be able to have some control on how it is used if it gets out "in the wild."


Risk-averse enterprises love the idea of revocable documents

To put the "risk" in context, let's re-phrase this: Enterprises that want to avoid the risk of revealing proprietary/personal/financial/protected information love the idea of hedging their bets against that happening. Well, isn't that pretty much every enterprise? I know I'd want my bank or doctor to be thinking about this kind of thing. But, I guess I'm just silly like that.


No one ever opts for "less security." Naive users will pull the "security" slider in Office all the way over the right. It's an attractive nuisance, begging to be abused.

Really? If that's the case, then why does Windows now have a built-in firewall (I'm not going to debate its quality here -- but it has one) and security center that is on by default and annoys you when you turn it off? Oh, that's right. Because most users may not opt for less security, but they also do not opt for more security -- unless someone else does if for them, most users are running with less security whether or not they opted to do so.


The Trusted Computing Module has sat silently on the motherboard for years now. Adding Vista and IRM to it is takes it from egg to larva, and turning on remote attestation in a year or two, once everyone is on next-generation Office, will bring the larva to adulthood, complete with venomous stinger.

Ah, and the wrap-up paragraph. Complete with analogy and the dire, overblown (and silly) visual point. Venomous stinger? Really? Wow.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Having said all that, I'm not a fan of Trusted Computing and I think DRM is actually a poor business choice for content creators/providers. And XP was the last MS OS I see myself purchasing because of alot of their recent actions and pricing decisions.

But, you really need to think about what you're reading instead of just absorbing it. I imagine this author needed one more story to publish before he took off for the holidays, so he whipped up this false, buzzword-laden crap and sent it to his editor before taking off.

]Nbx*cmD[
December 19th, 2006, 10:23 AM
Don't they know OpenDocument is now an ISO standard since last month???

They could be denounced for not using opendocument format, since all commercial developers, as well as administration and official institutions, are obligated to use opendocument from now on!

Well... they live in their own world, forget them ^_^

SonicSteve
December 19th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Nbx*cmD[;1905341']Don't they know OpenDocument is now an ISO standard since last month???

They could be denounced for not using opendocument format, since all commercial developers, as well as administration and official institutions, are obligated to use opendocument from now on!

Well... they live in their own world, forget them ^_^

I was wondering how the whole Oasis opendocument format was coming. I'm a bit confused by what their exact influence is though. Does microsoft mearly need to incorportate support for opendocument while still making their proprietary formats the default saving options? Or am I even way off base in saying that much?

I'm glad to see opendocument coming along the way it is. But what does it amount to? Can anyone explain in layman terms?

SonicSteve
December 19th, 2006, 05:26 PM
"Before I get started, I think this whole Trusted Computing initiative is crap and really, really bad"

I'm not even sure I know what this is....infact I don't. What is it?

casaschi
December 19th, 2006, 05:28 PM
They could be denounced for not using opendocument format, since all commercial developers, as well as administration and official institutions, are obligated to use opendocument from now on!

I understand the enthusiasm for opensource and openstandards, but where does it say that ALL COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS are OBLIGED to use opendocument from now on?
Would a software developer go to jail for using a proprietary format?
:p

EdThaSlayer
December 22nd, 2006, 11:59 AM
So Microsoft spends thousands of dollars making sure that no one else can read their file formats? If they do this...I guess more people would use the OpenOffice Document format.

SonicSteve
December 22nd, 2006, 12:37 PM
So Microsoft spends thousands of dollars making sure that no one else can read their file formats? If they do this...I guess more people would use the OpenOffice Document format.

I wouldn't be so sure. I can imagine most people not even recognizing the significance because they think that MS office is the only real option anyway. If you think it's the only real option you will simply assume that most people will use it which makes the the file format restrictions inconsequential, at least in they're eyes.
Anyway time will tell and aside from using openoffice there is little we can do about this. The corporations don't listen unless they start to hurt financially.

EdThaSlayer
December 24th, 2006, 08:39 AM
I wouldn't be so sure. I can imagine most people not even recognizing the significance because they think that MS office is the only real option anyway. If you think it's the only real option you will simply assume that most people will use it which makes the the file format restrictions inconsequential, at least in they're eyes.
Anyway time will tell and aside from using openoffice there is little we can do about this. The corporations don't listen unless they start to hurt financially.
I guess you are right. Its the same as for Linux Operating systems, most people haven't even heard about it, and so never try it out since they think that M$ is the only option.
:-k
But I guess the only increase in use of Openoffice formats will come from Linux users themselves, since most of them would probably convert their old ".doc" files to ".ood" files.
That is-if OpenOffice stops supporting ".doc" so they don't get sued.

Craftycorner
May 4th, 2008, 11:59 PM
What I find ironic is that Linux is the OS with the struggling to nonexistent virus population. Encryption is easy in Linux too.

:lolflag: